Nov 2010 By their fruits
Ron O
warning that this is a select group of posters. They are what is left
after the more rational have given up. It should be obvious, from the
type of posts that they are satisfied in producing, that they have no
valid alternative to bring to the table. Even realizing this they
persist. TO is about the lowest participation level that I can ever
recall. Basically the reasoned arguments are over. The intelligent
design scam has pretty much run its course and even the most ignorant
rubes have gotten some clue after the bait and switch has been going
down since 2003. There are still the sadly incompetent and ignorant
like the Louisiana school board rubes that recently claimed that the
Louisiana switch scam law would allow them to teach creationism and
intelligent design in the public schools. As long as the anti-
evolution faction relies on the ignorant and incompetent for their
main support base they have to expect their scams to be blown as badly
as it was in Louisiana. They have to wait for a group of competent
dishonest believers to run the switch scam. People dishonest enough
to pretend that they are worried about science education. How sad is
that? Reading the posts of the true believers left posting you can
easily see why things are this bad for the creationist anti-evolution
movement. These are the fruit of the anti-evolution movement.
By their fruit ye shall know them:
Kalkidas is supposed to be the brains of the current creationist
posters. Enough said about that.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/6afcff71ed58fd2b?hl=en
Ganesh is in the same boat as Kalk, but doesn’t know where he is most
of the time.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/6de1f1cabd2ac95e?hl=en
Glenn is one of the longest term anti-evolution posters. It is sad
that sniping from the sidelines is about all he can manage. There is
a general evolution of anti-evolution posters. The truly incompetent
never change very much. Ray may be the only example among recent
posters since Pagano hasn’t posted for a while and since Ganesh hasn’t
been posting long enough to fall into that category. Most quit very
quickly, but others hold out for a while and usually turn into snipers
when they can think of nothing else to do. Kalk is joining that list
along with NashTon and Glenn. They have given up on defending their
alternative and all they have left is to become naysayers even though
whatever they can come up with is worse than what they chose to
denigrate.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/1a2fa6c27898bc6f?hl=en
Ray is still Ray even though he hasn’t mentioned that he is the only
true Christian or creationist posting on TO for sometime.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/c5d23938e764419b?hl=en
Jacob Smith is a geneology expert that can’t comprehend descent with
modification.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/87d4c78619b459c1?hl=en
NashT is working on getting worse.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/51792488cac3af56?hl=en
This may be it. I don’t recall new rubes trying to post recently, but
I may have missed some. As in other By their fruits threads others
will identify posters that I may have missed. It is getting so
pathetic that we may have to resort to creationist book reviews to
give the lurkers some idea of how bankrupt the whole scam has become.
You can use Google to view profiles and get as many old posts as you
can stand.
Below are past “By their fruits” threads so that anyone can observe
the degradation over a relatively short period of time on TO. I’ve
been reading TO off and on since 1993 and the current crop of
creationist posters have hit a pretty low point that I believe is as
low as it ever has been. I do not know exactly what this means.
Trying to support their beliefs has become secondary to the point that
they likely do not even consider it to be viable. They seem to be
stuck with the obfuscation scam, but obviously understand that it
isn’t going to get them anywhere. These guys are literally the crumbs
left over after the creationist intelligent design scam tanked. The
saddest thing is that blowing smoke and running the obfuscation scam
is likely going to be the primary creationist scam for the foreseeable
future. What this will mean to science education is likely bad. All
the anti-evolution faction can hope to do is keep the next generation
as ignorant as possible. That has to be sad in anyone’s book.
Imagine a program designed to produce more people like the creationist
posters represented on these lists.
June 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/e093507cc6a0d97d?hl=en
March 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/efb41fb40874a801?hl=en
Nov. 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/cd9c35a1b94d1b42?hl=en
July 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/a01f009ef41f9647?hl=en
April 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/0ac65bbd7ae1d1ba?hl=en
Frank J
> It is time for another By their Fruits thread. As before I make the
> warning that this is a select group of posters. They are what is left
> after the more rational have given up. It should be obvious, from the
> type of posts that they are satisfied in producing, that they have no
> valid alternative to bring to the table. Even realizing this they
> persist. TO is about the lowest participation level that I can ever
> recall. Basically the reasoned arguments are over. The intelligent
> design scam has pretty much run its course and even the most ignorant
> rubes have gotten some clue after the bait and switch has been going
> down since 2003. There are still the sadly incompetent and ignorant
> like the Louisiana school board rubes that recently claimed that the
> Louisiana switch scam law would allow them to teach creationism and
> intelligent design in the public schools. As long as the anti-
> evolution faction relies on the ignorant and incompetent for their
> main support base they have to expect their scams to be blown as badly
> as it was in Louisiana. They have to wait for a group of competent
> dishonest believers to run the switch scam. People dishonest enough
> to pretend that they are worried about science education. How sad is
> that? Reading the posts of the true believers left posting you can
> easily see why things are this bad for the creationist anti-evolution
> movement. These are the fruit of the anti-evolution movement.
>
> By their fruit ye shall know them:
>
> Kalkidas is supposed to be the brains of the current creationist
>
> Ganesh is in the same boat as Kalk, but doesn’t know where he is most
> of the time.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/6de1f1cabd2ac95e?hl=en
Ironically the 1st 2 that you mention, and probably the 2 most
currently active, are not Christians. Yet they are well trained in the
"pseudoscience code of silence" as they rarely if ever challenge each
other, even though they probably disagree on everything except
"'Darwinism' is weak and evil" and "some designer did something at
some time."
>
> Glenn is one of the longest term anti-evolution posters. It is sad
> that sniping from the sidelines is about all he can manage. There is
> a general evolution of anti-evolution posters. The truly incompetent
> never change very much. Ray may be the only example among recent
> posters since Pagano hasn’t posted for a while and since Ganesh hasn’t
> been posting long enough to fall into that category. Most quit very
> quickly, but others hold out for a while and usually turn into snipers
> when they can think of nothing else to do. Kalk is joining that list
> along with NashTon and Glenn. They have given up on defending their
> alternative and all they have left is to become naysayers even though
> whatever they can come up with is worse than what they chose to
> denigrate.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/1a2fa6c27898bc6f?hl=en
>
> Ray is still Ray even though he hasn’t mentioned that he is the only
> true Christian or creationist posting on TO for sometime.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/c5d23938e764419b?hl=en
I must qualify that above I defined "Christians" as most people do. In
reality there is no such thing as "Christians" (plural) because Ray is
the only one. ;-)
>
> Jacob Smith is a geneology expert that can’t comprehend descent with
> modification.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/87d4c78619b459c1?hl=en
>
> NashT is working on getting worse.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/51792488cac3af56?hl=en
It doesn't get much more pathetic when your best arguments are reduced
to saying "right on" to [M]adman.
Ehile I have fond memories of Zoe's "Isochron" threads, Sean Pitman,
and even the funnier ones like Big Discusser, Roadrunner, Average Joe,
etc., having started lurking in 1998 and posting regularly in 2001 I
missed the real good old days, like this:
David Fritzinger
<73e64a75-75cb-495a...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
Frank J <fc...@verizon.net> wrote:
Ahh, I had forgotten about Big Discusser. She was something else. Of
course, some of the best(?) no longer post here. My favorite was
probably Karl Crawford. Then, He whose name must not be mentioned was
also good for a laugh.
Ernest Major
<dfritzin-760103...@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.ex
ample.com>, David Fritzinger <dfri...@nospam.mac.com> writes
>Then, He whose name must not be mentioned was also good for a laugh.
The Lord of the Bats, the Lord of the Lists (I didn't find either
amusing) or someone else?
--
alias Ernest Major
Frank J
> In message
> <dfritzin-760103.12345413112...@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.ex
> ample.com>, David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospam.mac.com> writes
>
> >Then, He whose name must not be mentioned was also good for a laugh.
>
> The Lord of the Bats, the Lord of the Lists (I didn't find either
> amusing) or someone else?
> --
> alias Ernest Major
I assumed he meant "McNameless."
Klaus Hellnick
He was a doctor on Star Trek.
chris thompson
> In article
> <73e64a75-75cb-495a-b6be-3697af70a...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
> > /c287143596f3e154?hl=en&q=group:talk.origins+author:Michael+author:Behe
>
> Ahh, I had forgotten about Big Discusser. She was something else. Of
> course, some of the best(?) no longer post here. My favorite was
> probably Karl Crawford. Then, He whose name must not be mentioned was
> also good for a laugh.
BigDiscusser was amusing until she said she would go to terminal
patients in the hospital at which she worked (she claimed to be a
nurse) and whisper in their ears "Jesus loves you" without regard to
their religious declarations. That made her anathema.
Chris
chris thompson
> In message
> <dfritzin-760103.12345413112...@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.ex
>
> >Then, He whose name must not be mentioned was also good for a laugh.
>
> The Lord of the Bats, the Lord of the Lists (I didn't find either
> amusing) or someone else?
> --
> alias Ernest Major
IIRC The Lord of the Bats was Ted (because of his .sig), while the
Lord of the Lists was Pe*er Ny**os.
Chris
Stuart
> In article
> <73e64a75-75cb-495a-b6be-3697af70a...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
> > /c287143596f3e154?hl=en&q=group:talk.origins+author:Michael+author:Behe
>
> Ahh, I had forgotten about Big Discusser.
AKA The "Big Disguster"
Stuart
Strange
Frank J
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Look on the bright side. Patients hard of hearing might have though
she said "Gene Scott love you. :-)
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Frank J
<fc...@verizon.net>:
Not V*ld*m*rt?
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
tim.anderson
Is there a law in your country that stops a patient from whacking a
person with their pillow if the person whispers unsolicited advice?
Ron O
class of post and run.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/6a2c82d410dbfca8?hl=en
There has been a shortage of post and run anti-science posters in the
last year. It may be hard to believe, but there may be a growing
sector of the anti-evolution faction that understands how bogus their
arguments are and won't even bother to put them up and run away. When
services like AOL came on line we had a bunch more post and runners,
but even with the increased access to the internet the flood is now a
trickle. Post and run anti-evolution posters are likely the largest
single type of anti-evolution poster there are on TO. They may have
heard something or read a propaganda pamphlet and think that they are
justified in putting in their 2 cents, but can't defend the junk that
they put up. The second largest class of anti-evolution posters are
the ones that last a few threads and go away once they realize that
what they bring to the table is bogus, or they are so lost that they
can't figure out what to do next. Like I said the regulars on the By
their fruits threads are a select group, so you can't make judgements
on the whole enterprise by just reading their posts. The whole anti-
evolution story is actually a lot lamer than just a few imcompetent
people that don't have enough on the ball to give up.
The anti-evolution group as a whole are the modern day flat-earth
types but most of them are too ignorant know it. If you can believe
it Pagano is a geocentrist creationist. Ignorance isn't such a bad
thing unless you let it make you do stupid things. 30% of the adults
in America may not know that the earth orbits the sun, but that
doesn't mean that we should teach geocentrism in the public schools as
anything but a teaching tool to show the kids why we don't think that
way anymore.
If you are a lurker and have an honest question I'd say that you
should post it. You have to expect to take some lumps because
hundreds of dishonest bogus types have come before you and messed
things up. The pretenders are found out right away, and a lot of
regulars are quick to jump on the newbies and treat them like they are
the same as the majority of newbie posters that turned out to
dishonestly misrepresent their questions or themselves. There have
been hundreds of guys that profess to be interested only in the
science and want to discuss some points, but they are quoting Bible
verses in their defense after a few threads. This is just the reality
of the type of people that want to support the anti-evolution side of
the issue. They usually can't even be honest with themselves. The
whole mind set seems to be rotten at the core. You just have to see
how the intelligent design bait and switch scam is going and how many
creationist believers are bending over for the switch scam to know
that something is terribly wrong.
So if you are on the anti-evolution side and you want to know
something about the issue don't pretend that you are anything but what
you are. I'd state your views and then ask your question. Blow off
the negative bigoted posts and read the few that will actually answer
your question. You have to expect to take some heat because your
predessors have been less than honest or just brain dead. That is
just a fact, and it should tell you something about your side of the
issue. Honest inquiry will still get honest answers from people that
actually know something about science. Our problem has been that
there have been so few honest inquiries. How sad is that?
There is a good reason why creation science failed and the intelligent
design scam folded up and the ID perps started running the bait and
switch scam on their own creationist support base. If you want to
learn more about it, just ask.
Ron Okimoto
Kalkidas
"Ron O" <roki...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:49963451-108d-41be...@o15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
[snip preening and posturing in front of a mirror]
Yet another declaration of "mission accomplished" by a fellow who's working
vocabulary consists of four or five words. Reminds me of someone, gee I
can't quite place it......
Boikat
> > she said "Gene Scott love you. :-)
>
> Is there a law in your country that stops a patient from whacking a
> person with their pillow if the person whispers unsolicited advice?
I'm sure some would have, if they had had the strength.
Boikat
Boikat
> "Ron O" <rokim...@cox.net> wrote in message
Must be someone who ties you into little logic knots, then spits you
out. It must be so tramatic to your over inflated ego that it's given
you psychological amnesia.
Boikat
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by "Kalkidas" <e...@joes.pub>:
>
>"Ron O" <roki...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:49963451-108d-41be...@o15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>[snip preening and posturing in front of a mirror]
....for values of "preening and posturing" equal to
"describing the current status of t.o, and offering to
answer honest questions asked honestly" (which is the part
I'm sure gets your panties in a twist, having no "honest
questions asked honestly" yourself), and with *zero* mention
of himself other than a single observation about the posts
in this thread.
Is a newsgroup (which is what the post was about) something
which can preen and posture? Interesting concept. Insane,
but interesting.
>Yet another declaration of "mission accomplished" by a fellow who's working
>vocabulary consists of four or five words. Reminds me of someone, gee I
>can't quite place it......
That's because you broke your own mirror.
Ron O
Poor sniper. Just think if you actually had an argument you wouldn't
have to pretend to be such a fool. You are pretending, right? You
are only doing this because you can't think of anything else to do,
right? You don't actually think that this is something that you can
be proud of, do you?
Why not just present your case? What a novel idea! It is so strange
that guys like you can't seem to understand that you should be
actually defending something instead of snipping.
It is just sad when the guys on the list live down to expectations.
Ron Okimoto
Ron O
Probably a new account and someone's post and run sock puppet.
You really can't make this junk up.
Tenko
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/40e0706694e3819c?hl=en
Frank J
> On Nov 15, 9:09 am, "Kalkidas" <e...@joes.pub> wrote:
>
> > "Ron O" <rokim...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:49963451-108d-41be...@o15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > [snip preening and posturing in front of a mirror]
>
> > Yet another declaration of "mission accomplished" by a fellow who's working
> > vocabulary consists of four or five words. Reminds me of someone, gee I
> > can't quite place it......
>
> Poor sniper. Just think if you actually had an argument you wouldn't
> have to pretend to be such a fool. You are pretending, right?
He may or may not be faking his philosphical objection to the
caricature of "Darwinism" he attacks. OTOH he must not have much
confidence in any alternate "theory," or else he'd be detailing it
here and defending it on it it's own merits. If he had to contrast it
with a weaker "theory" he could always pick one of the mutually
contradictory literal Genesis stories that he apparently disagrees
with.
> You
> are only doing this because you can't think of anything else to do,
> right? You don't actually think that this is something that you can
> be proud of, do you?
>
> Why not just present your case? What a novel idea! It is so strange
> that guys like you can't seem to understand that you should be
> actually defending something instead of snipping.
In fairness, he's the only one in the last 3.5 years who has submitted
a proposal in response to this:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/7563bdc1848942b6?hl=en
TO regulars must have confiscated it because it was the first to
really challenge evolution. ;-)
>
> It is just sad when the guys on the list live down to expectations.
That too is not fair. They go out of their ways to "create" new lows.
Although Klinghoffer has probably hit the absolute bottom.
>
> Ron Okimoto
Ron O
SNIP:
>
> Below are past “By their fruits” threads so that anyone can observe
> the degradation over a relatively short period of time on TO. I’ve
> been reading TO off and on since 1993 and the current crop of
> creationist posters have hit a pretty low point that I believe is as
> low as it ever has been. I do not know exactly what this means.
> Trying to support their beliefs has become secondary to the point that
> they likely do not even consider it to be viable. They seem to be
> stuck with the obfuscation scam, but obviously understand that it
> isn’t going to get them anywhere. These guys are literally the crumbs
> left over after the creationist intelligent design scam tanked. The
> saddest thing is that blowing smoke and running the obfuscation scam
> is likely going to be the primary creationist scam for the foreseeable
> future. What this will mean to science education is likely bad. All
> the anti-evolution faction can hope to do is keep the next generation
> as ignorant as possible. That has to be sad in anyone’s book.
> Imagine a program designed to produce more people like the creationist
> posters represented on these lists.
>
>
> March 2010http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/efb41fb40874a801?hl=en
>
> Nov. 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/cd9c35a1b94d1b42?hl=en
>
> July 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/a01f009ef41f9647?hl=en
>
> April 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/0ac65bbd7ae1d1ba?hl=en
I thought that I had started this series in 2008 but couldn't bring it
up with Google. It turns out that I didn't call it by their fruits.
Anti-science creationist posters July 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/2d892089f927ba43?hl=en
There might be another one, but I don't recall what I called it.
Ron Okimoto
Ray Martinez
> It is time for another By their Fruits thread. As before I make the
> warning that this is a select group of posters. They are what is left
> after the more rational have given up. It should be obvious, from the
> type of posts that they are satisfied in producing, that they have no
> valid alternative to bring to the table. Even realizing this they
> persist. TO is about the lowest participation level that I can ever
> recall. Basically the reasoned arguments are over. The intelligent
> design scam has pretty much run its course and even the most ignorant
> rubes have gotten some clue after the bait and switch has been going
> down since 2003. There are still the sadly incompetent and ignorant
> like the Louisiana school board rubes that recently claimed that the
> Louisiana switch scam law would allow them to teach creationism and
> intelligent design in the public schools. As long as the anti-
> evolution faction relies on the ignorant and incompetent for their
> main support base they have to expect their scams to be blown as badly
> as it was in Louisiana. They have to wait for a group of competent
> dishonest believers to run the switch scam. People dishonest enough
> to pretend that they are worried about science education. How sad is
> that? Reading the posts of the true believers left posting you can
> easily see why things are this bad for the creationist anti-evolution
> movement. These are the fruit of the anti-evolution movement.
>
> By their fruit ye shall know them:
>
> Kalkidas is supposed to be the brains of the current creationist
>
> Ganesh is in the same boat as Kalk, but doesn’t know where he is most
>
> Glenn is one of the longest term anti-evolution posters. It is sad
> that sniping from the sidelines is about all he can manage. There is
> a general evolution of anti-evolution posters. The truly incompetent
> never change very much. Ray may be the only example among recent
> posters since Pagano hasn’t posted for a while and since Ganesh hasn’t
> been posting long enough to fall into that category. Most quit very
> quickly, but others hold out for a while and usually turn into snipers
> when they can think of nothing else to do. Kalk is joining that list
> along with NashTon and Glenn. They have given up on defending their
> alternative and all they have left is to become naysayers even though
> whatever they can come up with is worse than what they chose to
>
> Ray is still Ray even though he hasn’t mentioned that he is the only
>
> Jacob Smith is a geneology expert that can’t comprehend descent with
>
> NashT is working on getting worse.http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/51792488cac3af56?hl=en
>
> This may be it. I don’t recall new rubes trying to post recently, but
> I may have missed some. As in other By their fruits threads others
> will identify posters that I may have missed. It is getting so
> pathetic that we may have to resort to creationist book reviews to
> give the lurkers some idea of how bankrupt the whole scam has become.
>
> You can use Google to view profiles and get as many old posts as you
> can stand.
>
> Below are past “By their fruits” threads so that anyone can observe
> the degradation over a relatively short period of time on TO. I’ve
> been reading TO off and on since 1993 and the current crop of
> creationist posters have hit a pretty low point that I believe is as
> low as it ever has been. I do not know exactly what this means.
> Trying to support their beliefs has become secondary to the point that
> they likely do not even consider it to be viable. They seem to be
> stuck with the obfuscation scam, but obviously understand that it
> isn’t going to get them anywhere. These guys are literally the crumbs
> left over after the creationist intelligent design scam tanked. The
> saddest thing is that blowing smoke and running the obfuscation scam
> is likely going to be the primary creationist scam for the foreseeable
> future. What this will mean to science education is likely bad. All
> the anti-evolution faction can hope to do is keep the next generation
> as ignorant as possible. That has to be sad in anyone’s book.
> Imagine a program designed to produce more people like the creationist
> posters represented on these lists.
>
>
> March 2010http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/efb41fb40874a801?hl=en
>
> Nov. 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/cd9c35a1b94d1b42?hl=en
>
> July 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/a01f009ef41f9647?hl=en
>
> April 2009http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/0ac65bbd7ae1d1ba?hl=en
It's worth repeating: I for one am always glad to be considered dumb,
stupid, evil and dishonest by the likes of a Ron Okimoto; that is, by
a person who actually believes that apes morphed into men over the
course of millions of years.
Ray (Creatorist)
Boikat
Translation: Ignorant, too stupid to understand how ignorant, and
damned proud of it.
Boikat
Ray Martinez
> "Ron O" <rokim...@cox.net> wrote in message
Homer Simpson: "nope" - "donut" - "duh"
Ron Okimoto: "scam" - "rube" - "junk" - "perps"
Ray
deadrat
Ray Martinez: "paper" "irrefutable" "soon"
Frank J
Don't forget the IDers at "UnCommon Descent" who banned you from their
blog. They're the ones who really think that apes "morphed" into men
over the course of millions of years - just not necessarily via "RM +
NS."
>
> Ray (Creatorist)- Hide quoted text -