Kook fight thread.
guardian Snow
please?
> Why did you lie to me about the change in your belief when Mark T
> convinced you the Messiah was not God incarnate and you were thanking
> him 'for what he would know'?
Mark Tindall has never convinced me of anything, I was thanking him
for not being rude.
> Rhetorical question. You LIED because
> you wanted to make it appear that I and Qadosh supported your new
> false teachings, the same reason you falsified that post from Qadosh
> today in the Signs and Seals in Revelation thread, trying to make it
> look as if he ADMIRED you. LOL. Qadosh was always suspicious of your
> false compliments and manipulations.
I credit the man to at least being honest to what he believes and
respect that… on with your confession please..
> And I only put up with your annoying personality as long as I have
> because I thought you believed in the Messiah and had been made aware
> Paul was a false apostle, but it turns out you jumped on that
> information because you were never a believer or follower of Yahashua`
> the Messiah, God incarnate; you came here with the intention of
> harassing Christians and thought I would help you because I reject
> Paul.
I am still a follower of Yehoshua and all the others in scriptures,
it’s good to see you using at least one true name. I don’t argue
about the vowels because as you might now, Hebrew has no vowels.
> You're unstable, uneducated, and wholly ignorant of the entire
> Scriptures and the teachings of the Messiah.
You’re entitled to your opinion still Linda.
>You remind me a lot of
> Paul, as you're a lying, aggressive false prophet, and had allied
> yourself with believers for a short time, all the while deceiving
> them, and left because you were never of us.
I am a Messianic but you fail to recognize what this means because you
are still in the false religion and don’t know it. To say that Messiah
was part of יהוה Ěl Shaddai is true but his spirit never dies and is
much more than a man.
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
Psa 82:8 Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all
the nations.
I do not deny his being and realize that we are to worship one name.
Authority and a throne are given to his Messiah but worship and praise
go to ONE, our heavenly Father alone.
> You've joined yourself to
> Mark T's alleged beliefs for the same reason he claims to accept
> Yahweh, but rejects the belief that the Messiah was not God incarnate,
> solely to use that claim to harass believers and followers of the
> Messiah. You're no 'brother' and you're no prophet. You'll pay come
> Judgment Day.
You really need to learn what the prophets say my friend.
Isa 45:19 “I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth.
I have not said to the seed of Yaʽaqoḇ, ‘Seek Me in vain.’ I am יהוה,
speaking righteousness, declaring matters that are straight.
Isa 45:20 “Gather yourselves and come; draw near together, you who
have escaped from the gentiles. No knowledge have they who are lifting
up the wood of their carved image, and pray to a mighty one that does
not save.
Isa 45:21 “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel
together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from
that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a
righteous Ěl and a Saviour, there is none besides Me.
Isa 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I
am Ěl, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 “I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall
bow, every tongue swear.
Isa 45:24 “One shall say, ‘Only in יהוה do I have righteousness and
strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall
be put to shame.
Isa 45:25 “In יהוה all the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall be declared right
and boast. ”
Isa 43:9 All the nations shall be assembled, and the peoples be
gathered. Who among them declares this, and show us former events? Let
them give their witnesses, to be declared right; or let them hear and
say, “It is truth.”
Isa 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” declares יהוה, “And My servant whom
I have chosen, so that you know and believe Me, and understand that I
am He. Before Me there was no Ěl formed, nor after Me there is none.
Isa 43:11 “I, I am יהוה, and besides Me there is no saviour.
Elohim is one and recently I was accused of denial of the Good News of
יהושע Messiah, the Son of Elohim. The majority of the world uses a
faulty translation of scriptures that fails to recognize the name of
EL. For whatever reason, the name of our heavenly Father is being
hidden from the majority of people. I don’t necessarily think this is
all just the works of man because of this passage:
Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
Saviour!
Because we have rejected his Torah and taught men the names of foreign
elohims the curses of Deuteronomy have been effecting civilizations on
a whole. Part of the problem is that we spend so much time reading
nothing but the Good News and we wrongly believe that Duet. 28 have
nothing to do with us. The scriptures are clear that there is one
Torah for all and this is where most people get tripped up is by
ignoring the Torah, the very foundation of understanding. Without a
proper foundation we are easily mislead into believing things and
taken to practices we shouldn’t. So that brings me to my current
issue... one that will definitely cause a stir.
Should we worship the Messiah?
In the KJV of scriptures a lot of evidence can be giving to easily
support this idea that we should worship the Messiah and that Jesus
Christ is God. The problem with this is that almost all modern
translations of scriptures have been meticulously altered to remove
the names of our Heavenly Father and his only begotten son. For
whatever reasons historically these names were removed and replaced
with titles and the name Iesos Christos.
We’re a stubborn people that want to think we are all right in the
knowledge we have held onto and the faith we have kept and I can
respect that a vast majority of people will never even consider the
fact that they have been deceived into false worship. At no point in
the New Testament does the Messiah tell others to worship his name, if
he did, he would be a false Messiah because scriptures are clear in
that we have one saviour and that’s our heavenly Father.
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we
have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Did men worship the Messiah as the KJV records?
Mat 4:10 Then יהושע said to him, “Go, Satan! For it has been written,
‘You shall worship יהוה your Elohim, and Him alone you shall serve.’ ”
No, he clearly didn’t want worship of himself and the KJV is a gross
mistranslation of what is written. Without any doubt he stated that
we are only to worship our heavenly Father. To believe that he
allowed worship of himself makes a liar out of יהוה Ěl Shaddai and a
false prophet out of יהושע Messiah! The job of the Messiah is to
establish the church of our heavenly Father!
Zec 6:12 and shall speak to him, saying, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts,
saying, “See, the Man whose name is the Branch! And from His place He
shall branch out, and He shall build the Hĕḵal of יהוה. “
Now to be clear, יהושע Messiah was more than just a man or a prophet,
he was the anointed one of יהוה Ěl Shaddai and was the messenger that
appeared to men. The spirit of our heavenly Father was in him so he
was a part of our heavenly Father.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Elohim.1 The only brought-forth Son, who
is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.2 Footnotes: 1See 5:37,
6:46, 1 John 4:12. 2The pre-existent Son declared, and was the One who
appeared to men.
This verse in John is proof of my point!
Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
And this verse:
Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He bore witness of Me. You have
neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
So, we have not seen the form or heard his voice... The Father sent
him to preach about the Father. He did not come in his own name and
if he had then his witness is NOT TRUE by his own words. This is
conclusive proof that the KJV translation is wrong when it states that
men worshipped him. Who did he tell you to believe?
Joh 5:46 “For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me,
since he wrote about Me.
You should believe Moses, who spoke of him in the Torah. But because
many do not believe in Moses, they have fallen into a trap and
believed mistranslations of the many wrong versions of scriptures that
should read:
Mat 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born Sovereign of the
Yehuḏim? For we saw His star in the East and have come to do
reverence to Him.”
יהוה Ěl Shaddai is our SAVIOUR, just as all the prophets tell you,
over and over again but confusion is because people simply refuse to
give up wrong translations. The Messiah did not come in his own name
by his own words and told us only to worship יהוה Ěl Shaddai and
believe the Good News of יהושע Messiah!
Many who are wise in the Torah have come to reject the Jesus of the
New Testament because the Torah clearly states that we are only to
worship our heavenly Father... A dear girl that tried hard to get me
to understand her doubt (Debra) rejected the Messiah because of a bad
translation error.
Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those
guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע.
The belief of our Messiah that we are to keep is that we are to
worship and pray to our Heavenly Father and guard the Ten Words of the
covenant. To be clear, The Messiah did die for the sins of many.
Mat 1:21 “And she shall give birth to a Son, and you shall call His
Name יהושע for He shall save1 His people from their sins.” Footnote:
1This is the precise meaning of the Heḇrew of His Name.
But we are saved by our heavenly Father’s compassion for us:
Act 2:21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה
shall be saved.’
Act 4:12 “And there is no deliverance in anyone else, for there is no
other Name under the heaven given among men by which we need to be
saved.”
Deliverance to the Father is by Good News of יהושע Messiah, the Son of
Elohim.
Isa 66:5 Hear the Word of יהוה, you who tremble at His Word, “Your
brothers who hate you, who cast you out for My Name’s sake, said, ‘Let
יהוה be esteemed, so that we see your joy.’ But they are put to
shame.”
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
To be a man is... to be responsible. It is to feel shame at the sight
of what seems to be unmerited misery. It is to take pride in a victory
won by one's comrades. It is to feel, when setting one's stone, that
one is contributing to the building of the world.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
Linda Lee
wrote:
You're a liar and a false teacher.
You are wholly in the dark, Snowjob/Dark Man, and there is no light in
you, which is why you feel free to ignore the Messiah's own words
explicitly stating he was the Father (John 14:9 - see below).
Look Snowjob/Dark Man, as long as you continue to deliberately ignore
scriptures that plainly show the Messiah was worshipped during his
incarnation and especially his statement saying explicitly he WAS the
Father incarnate, I have nothing more to say to you except perhaps to
point out what a double-minded, secretive, manipulative fraud and
hypocrite you are.
And since you explained your double-mindedness as 'growth', why don't
you do everyone a favor and finish 'growing' and read the Scriptures
and learn something before you begin preaching?
Are you drinking or what? Having a little nip and pretending to be a
prophet? What FUN.
Your mercurial nature and ignorance and contentiousness is making you
look more and more simply like a TROLL.
Here again, hypocrite, are the scriptures you choose to ignore. I can
post them endless times - if you would like them shoved down your
throat, keep posting your garbage to me.
Matt. 2:11 "And when they were come into the house, they saw the young
child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and WORSHIPPED him".
Matt. 9:18 "While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came
a certain ruler, and WORSHIPPED him, saying, My daughter is even now
dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live."
Matt. 8:2 "And, behold, there came a leper and WORSHIPPED him, saying,
Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean".
Matt. 28:9 "And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met
them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and
WORSHIPPED him."
Matt. 14:33 "Then they that were in the ship came and WORSHIPPED him,
saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."
Claiming equality with God was the reason he was killed: In John 5:18
John says, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he
not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his
Father, making himself EQUAL with God."
John 14:9 "JESUS SAITH unto him, Have I been so long time with you,
and yet HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN
THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
The nic you sometimes use, "Dark Man", is a really appropriate nic for
you as you're filled with darkness, i.e. ignorance and evil. I don't
know whether you're a troll, or just double-minded, i.e. unstable, and
keep changing your beliefs, but I really don't care anymore.
Snowjob the hypocrite wrote: "Isn't it amazing how you put scriptures
right in front of there eyes and they still run around in denial? " -
from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/ea943ac0940523ed
Description of Snowjob/"Dark Man":
James 1:6 "he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the
wind and tossed.
James 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing
of the Lord.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".
.
guardian Snow
> On Oct 12, 10:58 pm, guardian Snow <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> You're a liar and a false teacher.
>
> You are wholly in the dark, Snowjob/Dark Man, and there is no light in
> you, which is why you feel free to ignore the Messiah's own words
> explicitly stating he was the Father (John 14:9 - see below).
Joh 14:9 יהושע said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you
have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, and
how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Joh 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father
is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself.
But the Father who stays in Me does His works.
Joh 14:11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves.
Maybe you didn't read my post.. I speak to the fact that the Father is
indeed in his anointed Messiah. Just as John says, the FATHER IS IN
HIM. He also says that he doesn't speak from "Myself" because his
words are given to him by the Father. To say that the Messiah is יהוה
Ěl Shaddai, fails to recognize how much MORE the the Father is. It's
like looking at your eyeball detached from your body and saying,
"That's Linda Lee".
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Grow we must, if we outgrow all that loves us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Mark T
> Linda, is it possible that you keep your rage in check to one thread
> please?
That's why she is in my Bozo Bin.
>> You've joined yourself to
>> Mark T's alleged beliefs for the same reason he claims to accept
>> Yahweh, but rejects the belief that the Messiah was not God incarnate,
>> solely to use that claim to harass believers and followers of the
>> Messiah.
...
> You really need to learn what the prophets say my friend.
I'm willing to CHANGE IMMEDIATELY.
All anyone has to do is convince me that Jesus of Nazareth led the people of
Israel out of Egypt according to the following scripture ....
######################################
God spoke all these words, saying:
I the LORD am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house
of bondage: You shall have no other gods besides Me. You shall not make
yourself a sculptured image, or any likeness of what is in the heavens
above, or on earth below, or in the waters under the earth. You shall not
bow down to them or serve them. For I the LORD your God am an impassioned
God, visiting the guilt of the parents upon the children, upon the third and
upon the fourth generations of those who reject Me, but showing kindness to
the thousandth generation of those who love Me and keep MY commandments.
Exodus 20: 1 - 6 (JPS Tanakh)
#####################################
That shouldn't be to difficult to do IF Jesus of Nazareth really is God.
Waiting ................
--
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
Mark T
>> the Messiah's own words
>> explicitly stating he was the Father (John 14:9 - see below).
> Joh 14:9 ????? said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you
> have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father,
> and how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?
...
> I speak to the fact that the Father is indeed in his anointed Messiah.
So do I. That is the MEANING of Messiah - a human anointed by God.
Of course, the other MAJOR problem with the quote is that it was NEVER
stated by Jesus of Nazareth. It is ONLY found in John's gospel which was
written 90 - 120 CE when the apostle John was dead.
Barry Ogrady
"Mark T" <snailmail@12oclockrock> wrote in message
news:48f2dae6$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I'm willing to CHANGE IMMEDIATELY.
That's very good. Start my getting a liffe and not being agressive with your
false ideas.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> On Oct 13, 2:21 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 10:58 pm, guardian Snow <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au>
> > wrote:
>
> > You're a liar and a false teacher.
>
> > You are wholly in the dark, Snowjob/Dark Man, and there is no light in
> > you, which is why you feel free to ignore the Messiah's own words
> > explicitly stating he was the Father (John 14:9 - see below).
>
> Joh 14:9 יהושע said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you
> have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, and
> how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
> Joh 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father
> is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself.
> But the Father who stays in Me does His works.
> Joh 14:11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
> otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves.
>
> Maybe you didn't read my post.. I speak to the fact that the Father is
> indeed in his anointed Messiah. Just as John says, the FATHER IS IN
> HIM.
So now you're equating John to the Messiah. Disgusting.
> He also says that he doesn't speak from "Myself" because his
> words are given to him by the Father. To say that the Messiah is יהוה
> Ěl Shaddai, fails to recognize how much MORE the the Father is. It's
> like looking at your eyeball detached from your body and saying,
> "That's Linda Lee".
Your insistence on trying to convince me you are right on this
particular subject is infuriating.
I refuse to argue over or 'debate' whether or not God incarnated to
act as our only Saviour.
DON'T TELL PEOPLE YOUR MESSAGE IS "OUR MESSAGE" as you did a few days
ago when you KNEW I don't agree with you on this. YOUR MESSAGE IS
***NOT*** MY MESSAGE.
You are not comprehending the Messiah's words. Your endless confusion
is a big waste of time.
roy...@gmail.com
> "guardian Snow" <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > Linda, is it possible that you keep your rage in check to one thread
> > please?
>
> That's why she is in my Bozo Bin.
>
>
>
> >> You've joined yourself to
> >> Mark T's alleged beliefs for the same reason he claims to accept
> >> Yahweh, but rejects the belief that the Messiah was not God incarnate,
> >> solely to use that claim to harass believers and followers of the
> >> Messiah.
> ...
> > You really need to learn what the prophets say my friend.
>
> I'm willing to CHANGE IMMEDIATELY.
>
> All anyone has to do is convince me that Jesus of Nazareth led the people of
> Israel out of Egypt according to the following scripture ....
Well;
Charlton Heston went from being Moses in The Ten Commandments,
to encountering Jesus while as Judah Ben Hur in Ben Hur,
to meeting Jesus again while as the Baptist in The Greatest Story Ever
Told,
to painting Jesus in The Agony And The Ecstasy as Michaelangelo,
and turned up as a cardinal in The Three Musketeers.
He didn't quite make it as Jesus. :-)
>
> ######################################
> God spoke all these words, saying:
>
> I the LORD am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house
> of bondage: You shall have no other gods besides Me. You shall not make
> yourself a sculptured image, or any likeness of what is in the heavens
> above, or on earth below, or in the waters under the earth. You shall not
> bow down to them or serve them. For I the LORD your God am an impassioned
> God, visiting the guilt of the parents upon the children, upon the third and
> upon the fourth generations of those who reject Me, but showing kindness to
> the thousandth generation of those who love Me and keep MY commandments.
>
> Exodus 20: 1 - 6 (JPS Tanakh)
> #####################################
>
> That shouldn't be to difficult to do IF Jesus of Nazareth really is God.
>
> Waiting ................
>
> --
> MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
>
> FUNDY FUNHOUSE -http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
Linda Lee
> "guardian Snow" <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > Linda, is it possible that you keep your rage in check to one thread
> > please?
>
> That's why she is in my Bozo Bin.
What a liar you are; you announced the fact that you had 'plonked' me
when I proved you were lying about the links you provided allegedly
containing some reference to the original Ten Commandments omitting
the Commandment to observe the Sabbath Day. First you tried to insist
it was buried in there somewhere (but refused to quote it - because it
was NOT there); then when I told you I'd copied ALL the info in the
links into a document file so I could easily search for your claimed
lie, you plonked me. You're always the liar.
> MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
>
> FUNDY FUNHOUSE -http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
Linda Lee
First, prove that God actually led the Israelites out of Egypt - that
shouldn't be any harder than your requirement.
Not holding my breath...
guardian Snow
> Of course, the other MAJOR problem with the quote is that it was NEVER
> stated by Jesus of Nazareth. It is ONLY found in John's gospel which was
> written 90 - 120 CE when the apostle John was dead.
And of course I still respectfully disagree with you Mark on that
issue because I can only take it on faith, I wasn't alive to witness
the event and neither were you
.
I cross posted so that all the people mentioned would in fact have
input. I knew the title would draw you in... hehehe.
Good to see you are doing well and still pushing buttons. Gave me a
good chuckle, thanks:) Take care and be blessed.
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing
left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Linda Lee
> On Oct 13, 4:26 pm, "Mark T" <snailmail@12oclockrock> wrote:
>
> > Of course, the other MAJOR problem with the quote is that it was NEVER
> > stated by Jesus of Nazareth. It is ONLY found in John's gospel which was
> > written 90 - 120 CE when the apostle John was dead.
>
> And of course I still respectfully disagree with you Mark on that
> issue because I can only take it on faith, I wasn't alive to witness
> the event and neither were you
> .
> I cross posted so that all the people mentioned would in fact have
> input. I knew the title would draw you in... hehehe.
>
> Good to see you are doing well and still pushing buttons. Gave me a
> good chuckle, thanks:) Take care and be blessed.
>
You and Mark T are well suited to each other - you're both
hypocritical, ignorant, conceited liars as many already know.
guardian Snow
> On Oct 12, 11:35 pm, guardian Snow <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 13, 2:21 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 12, 10:58 pm, guardian Snow <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > You're a liar and a false teacher.
>
> > > You are wholly in the dark, Snowjob/Dark Man, and there is no light in
> > > you, which is why you feel free to ignore the Messiah's own words
> > > explicitly stating he was the Father (John 14:9 - see below).
>
> > Joh 14:9 יהושע said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you
> > have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, and
> > how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
> > Joh 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father
> > is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself.
> > But the Father who stays in Me does His works.
> > Joh 14:11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
> > otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves.
>
> > Maybe you didn't read my post.. I speak to the fact that the Father is
> > indeed in his anointed Messiah. Just as John says, the FATHER IS IN
> > HIM.
>
> So now you're equating John to the Messiah. Disgusting.
No. What book are we discussing JOHN.. "Just as John says" Whats so
hard to understand?
> I refuse to argue over or 'debate' whether or not God incarnated to
> act as our only Saviour.
>
> DON'T TELL PEOPLE YOUR MESSAGE IS "OUR MESSAGE" as you did a few days
> ago when you KNEW I don't agree with you on this. YOUR MESSAGE IS
> ***NOT*** MY MESSAGE.
I couldn't agree with you more that your message is not mine. I don't
go around blindly attacking everybody and going into sporadic rage
attacks calling everybody dozens of names like you are infamous for.
Control your own emotions. Anytime you want to step away and stop
attacking me and actually listen the words of Yehoshua, would be fine
by me.
Mat 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those cursing
you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those insulting you and
persecuting you,
Mat 5:45 so that you become sons of your Father in the heavens.
Because He makes His sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and sends
rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.1 Footnote: 1Lk. 6:35,
Acts 14:16-17.
Take care and be blessed.
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us.
To live is to be slowly born.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Linda Lee
Then QUIT LYING that it is -- as you did here -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/44cbb70a8de52083
Which lies I replied to with: ""our message"??? 'We' don't have an
"our message". You recently
revealed you deny the Messiah was God incarnate. I think you're
ignorant, double-minded, and double-tongued since you had always
previously supported my statements affirming The Messiah was indeed
God incarnate as our Saviour" - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/e5353bd1c6d401ac
And I was referring to the following post from you when I said that
above (i.e. "you had always
previously supported my statements affirming The Messiah was indeed
God incarnate as our Saviour") :
Snow-fraud wrote to me: "Can I just tell you... your on a roll. That
was by far one of the
most brilliant post I have ever seen you right to date. I just have
one issue with you. Angels again...". - from
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/c13fd70b5852ba04 - And
you were referring to the following post at
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/573c56b115fa837a in
which I had said "Wisdom is salvation personified in God incarnate as
the only Saviour.".
And Wisdom IS salvation personified in God incarnate as the only
Saviour. It is "brilliant" and true.
guardian Snow
> And Wisdom IS salvation personified in God incarnate as the only
> Saviour. It is "brilliant" and true.
Let's explain this again.. Linda Lee is elohim and worthy of worship
in this example.
Linda's eye pops out and all the little people that don't know Linda
see they eye and praise Linda for they have seen Linda.
But they haven't seen Linda.. only Linda's eye and they don't
understand this concept.
When the eye is re attached to Linda.. it is again called Linda but
when the eye is separated from Linda.. it's called an eye.. do you
worship Linda or the eye?
Does that mean that the eye is not apart of Linda when it's popped
out? Of course it's part of Linda but they eye by itself is not
LINDA..
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
To be a man is... to be responsible. It is to feel shame at the sight
of what seems to be unmerited misery. It is to take pride in a victory
won by one's comrades. It is to feel, when setting one's stone, that
one is contributing to the building of the world.
guardian Snow
You know.. the biggest problem with what you keep ranting on about is
that you keep using the word God... Figure out the name of that being
and use it and that has nothing to do with what scriptures you use.
Firefly
"guardian Snow" <mr_snow...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ccf22bb7-87a5-4773...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Linda, is it possible that you keep your rage in check to one thread
please?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, sometimes when people get this way they end up showing
others what still maintains control over their heart and mind. Your subject
line sets the tone and state of mind...a conversation that goes nowhere...
Firefly
Linda Lee
> "guardian Snow" <mr_snow_pheo...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
Snowjob pretends civility and constantly provokes; this has been his
way for the entire year he's posted here.
Linda Lee
Snowjob pretends civility and constantly provokes; this has been his
way for the entire year he's posted here; he just directs it towards
different believers at different times.
Snowjob knows exactly what his continued provocation and denial of the
Messiah as God incarnate is likely to do; that is why he signed of
like this in his post to me yesterday because he wants to bring me
down to his level ("Controversy equalizes fools and wise men - and the
fools know it. Oliver Wendell Holmes" - from
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/d66e60180a770bb5 ).
Snowjob's a fool, a liar, and a troll whose only goal is to destroy
the message of the Messiah. He began that way a year ago, preaching
against the cross and claiming the teachings of the Messiah are part
of a false pagan religion, and he's come full circle in the ensuing
year.
Firefly
Some of these very things are what drove me away from faith
for a time. I couldn't find the LORD in any of the voices I heard
or the faces I had seen, always seeing a lack of love and compassion for
those around me, the constant fighting and quarreling, the never ceasing
propagation of hate for others. Perhaps some need to travel down this
path, that one day they will have developed more than just a love of
scripture, but a real love and appreciation for the fine things of the
LORD, and that willingness to hold on that much TIGHTER to HIM.
I went down this road. Maybe, Snow needs to take a walk for
a while to. You never know who the LORD will send out to round up
strays....
guardian Snow
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You know, sometimes when people get this way they end up showing
> others what still maintains control over their heart and mind. Your subject
> line sets the tone and state of mind...a conversation that goes nowhere...
>
> Firefly
Well, can't argue against that but it's more of a recognition of
something me and Linda have both been called. I'm not afraid to were
labels that I know don't fit... it would only bother me if I thought
I or Linda was a kook. I don't expect Linda to except what I'm
attempting to speak about, honestly.. speaking with her is a waste of
time... The topic is important to be certain.. Should we worship the
Messiah.. No.
What isn't important is what other people think of me personally
because the message isn't about me. Linda gets hung up on people and
forgets that fact.. that we aren't here to talk about me and her or at
least.. I'm not.
Don't get me wrong.. I really do love Linda.. even when she's sitting
around saying all kinds of wicked things about me. She just doesn't
get it..
I see myself trying to help her... she has no desire for what I know.
I respect that but she can't seem to just walk away and shake the dust
off her feet.
She'll accuse me of stalking her and then chase me around 5 threads
calling me names. Maybe she's going through a hard stage in her life
or maybe she feels I betray her.
What she doesn't realize is that the only thing she's doing is
destroying her own credibility, if she has any. I'd forgive her in a
flash and in fact.. I already have for all the nasty things she going
to continue to say until she gets tired of this self destructive mode
she's in.
I wish her all the best and I continue to pray for her... but I do
have some understandings that she even at this very moment, she will
not grasp. Notice my sign off...
Be blessed and take care and thank you for sharing your perspective
Firefly.
Mat 5:7 “Blessed are the compassionate, because they shall obtain
compassion.
Mat 5:8 “Blessed are the clean in heart,1 because they shall see
Elohim. Footnote: 1Ps. 24:3-4.
Mat 5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, because they shall be called
sons of Elohim.
Mat 5:10 “Blessed are those persecuted for righteousness’1 sake,
because theirs is the reign of the heavens. Footnote: 11Pet. 3:14.
Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when they reproach and persecute you, and
falsely say every wicked word against you, for My sake.
Mat 5:12 “Rejoice and be glad, because your reward in the heavens is
great. For in this way they persecuted the prophets who were before
you.
Mat 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt becomes
tasteless, how shall it be seasoned? For it is no longer of any use
but to be thrown out and to be trodden down by men.
Mat 5:14 “You are the light of the world. It is impossible for a city
to be hidden on a mountain.
Mat 5:15 “Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a
lampstand, and it shines to all those in the house.
Mat 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, so that they see your
good works and praise your Father who is in the heavens.
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
You are responsible for your rose.
Firefly
> On Oct 13, 11:57 pm, "Firefly" <firefly2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You know, sometimes when people get this way they end up showing
>> others what still maintains control over their heart and mind. Your subject
>> line sets the tone and state of mind...a conversation that goes nowhere...
>>
>> Firefly
>
> Well, can't argue against that but it's more of a recognition of
> something me and Linda have both been called. I'm not afraid to were
> labels that I know don't fit... it would only bother me if I thought
> I or Linda was a kook.
Neither of you are kooks. If the LORD wanted a kook, I'm sure He is
able to design it as he wants it.
guardian Snow
> Snowjob's a fool, a liar, and a troll whose only goal is to destroy
> the message of the Messiah. He began that way a year ago, preaching
> against the cross and claiming the teachings of the Messiah are part
> of a false pagan religion, and he's come full circle in the ensuing
> year.
Hos 4:6 “My people have perished for lack of knowledge. Because you
have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being priest for Me. Since
you have forgotten the Torah of your Elohim, I also forget your
children.
You go to far as always...
Mat 10:38 “And he who does not take up his stake and follow after Me
is not worthy of Me.
In Messianic scriptures it's common knowledge that the Messiah was
impaled on a stake at Golgotha.
Mar 15:22 And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is
translated, Place of a Skull.
Mar 15:23 And they were giving Him wine mixed with myrrh to drink, but
He did not take it.
Mar 15:24 And when they impaled Him, they divided His garments,
casting lots for them, what each one should take.
Mar 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they impaled Him.
stauros means stake, not cross. So clearly I do not say, "he wasn't
murdered". I don't say, "he isn't Elohim" but for that matter so was
Moses and it's this clarity you lack by using bad translations.
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
In your rush for judgment and use of bad translations, you fail to
understand anything because of your steadfast refusal to acknowledge
words you know are false. These false words not found in the Hebrew
give you the wrong understanding in my opinion. יהוה Ěl Shaddai,
true and righteous is not יהושע Messiah, the Son of Elohim.
Your failure is in not recognizing the two identities of which one is
only a part of the other. I will continue to pray that we both
receive our Fathers wisdom, be blessed and take care.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of Elohim, who gives
to all generously and without reproach, and it shall be given to him.
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
You are responsible for your rose.
Linda Lee
You are blind to your own hypocrisy. You don't see the hypocrisy in
saying that when you STARTED THIS THREAD directed personally to me?
> Maybe she's going through a hard stage in her life
> or maybe she feels I betray her.
Or MAYBE she believes you are a fraud who deliberately misled her
about what you believe to try to use her support to bolster your false
message and are a false prophet teaching a false message.
>
> What she doesn't realize is that the only thing she's doing is
> destroying her own credibility, if she has any. I'd forgive her in a
> flash and in fact.. I already have for all the nasty things she going
> to continue to say until she gets tired of this self destructive mode
> she's in.
>
> I wish her all the best and I continue to pray for her... but I do
> have some understandings that she even at this very moment, she will
> not grasp. Notice my sign off...
I noticed your comment to Mark T in this thread ("I cross posted so
that all the people mentioned would in fact have
input. I knew the title ["Kook fight thread"] would draw you in...
hehehe. Good to see you are doing well and still pushing buttons.
Gave me a good chuckle, thanks:)"
Mark T's comment that he put me in his "bozo bin" (when I exposed him
lying that links he provided contained certain false info he claimed)
is what gave you Snowjob "a chuckle" and desire for Mark T's unholy
support in "pushing buttons" (inciting anger) is why you wanted to
draw him into this. You're transparent to me, and you're right it is
useless for you to talk to me now that I see you clearly for what you
are. Continue to run, false prophet, no one can stop a false prophet
from running, but God will take care of it come Judgment Day.
And I noticed this sign-off in your provoking post to me a day or two
ago -- "Controversy equalizes fools and wise men - and the fools know
it. Oliver Wendell Holmes" - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/d66e60180a770bb5
Explain that quote in your post to me, Mr. 'Sincerity'.
> http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua<-- joinhttp://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
guardian Snow
> Neither of you are kooks. If the LORD wanted a kook, I'm sure He is
> able to design it as he wants it.
I know this all to well.. I certainly don't think Linda is a kook..
she's a wonderful girl I'm sure..
Me.. I have my moments.. 8P Have to have a sense of humor in life..
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Advice is like castor oil, easy enough to give but dreadful uneasy to
take.
Josh Billings
Linda Lee
Moses was NOT Elohiym (God). Could you get any more confused?
Linda Lee
Moses was NOT Elohiym (God) as you've just said. Could you get any
more confused? And you think you have "clarity" on what the
Scriptures reveal? Very sad.
guardian Snow
> I noticed your comment to Mark T in this thread ("I cross posted so
> that all the people mentioned would in fact have
> input. I knew the title ["Kook fight thread"] would draw you in...
> hehehe. Good to see you are doing well and still pushing buttons.
> Gave me a good chuckle, thanks:)"
>
> Mark T's comment that he put me in his "bozo bin" (when I exposed him
> lying that links he provided contained certain false info he claimed)
> is what gave you Snowjob "a chuckle" and desire for Mark T's unholy
> support in "pushing buttons" (inciting anger) is why you wanted to
> draw him into this. You're transparent to me, and you're right it is
> useless for you to talk to me now that I see you clearly for what you
> are. Continue to run, false prophet, no one can stop a false prophet
> from running, but God will take care of it come Judgment Day.
Where I have prophesied my lady? Clearly you never read the post "My
prophesy" or you would have known that it was speaking 'bout the
prophets in scriptures and not myself.
You really think you understand me. You have no idea what it was that
made me giggle about Mark Tindall. I wanted him to read this because
of my mention of Debra. I still respect what she was trying to teach
me even if, like you, she went about it in the wrong fashion. Debra
really was a sweet person on some level and her and Mark were good
friends. I think if people are talked about.. they deserve to have
input in the conversation.
I was giggling about the fact that "kook fight" draw him.. yes.. I
still know what draws Mr. Tindall's attention and while we disagree on
issues, it's with respect for each other... something you really need
to work on.
> And I noticed this sign-off in your provoking post to me a day or two
> ago -- "Controversy equalizes fools and wise men - and the fools know
> it. Oliver Wendell Holmes" - from
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/d66e60180a770bb5
> Explain that quote in your post to me, Mr. 'Sincerity'.
If you felt I was provoking you then why do you continue to take the
bate? Why not actually follow the teachings of the Messiah? Hmmmm?
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Don't ever prophesy; for if you prophesy wrong, nobody will forget it;
and if you prophesy right, nobody will remember it.
Josh Billings
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
guardian Snow
> Moses was NOT Elohiym (God) as you've just said. Could you get any
> more confused? And you think you have "clarity" on what the
> Scriptures reveal? Very sad.
To bad you don't know scriptures.
Exo 7:1 So יהוה said to Mosheh, “See, I have made you an elohim to
Pharaoh, and Aharon your brother is your prophet.
Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
Footnote: 1Or mighty one, which is proof that elohim is but a title,
indicating order or authority – it is not a proper name.
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
Psa 82:8 Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all
the nations.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 3:57 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
You wrote:
stauros means stake, not cross. So clearly I do not say, "he wasn't
murdered". I don't say, "he isn't Elohim" but for that matter so was
Moses and it's this clarity you lack by using bad translations.
I replied:
> > Moses was NOT Elohiym (God) as you've just said. Could you get any
> > more confused? And you think you have "clarity" on what the
> > Scriptures reveal? Very sad.
>
> To bad you don't know scriptures.
>
> Exo 7:1 So יהוה said to Mosheh, “See, I have made you an elohim to
> Pharaoh, and Aharon your brother is your prophet.
Exo 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee A god to
Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."
Elohiym - Heb. 430 -
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
God made Moses an elohiym (a god), not THE Supreme God, "the (true)
God". Moses is not equal to the Saviour; Moses was the Saviour's
prophet.
>
> Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
> Footnote: 1Or mighty one, which is proof that elohim is but a title,
> indicating order or authority – it is not a proper name.
>
> Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
> Most High.
> Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
> Psa 82:8 Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all
> the nations.
So now by supplying this quote in relation to the subject at hand,
you're implying all the Israelites were gods, and the Messiah was no
different than any other Israelite.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 3:57 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Moses was NOT Elohiym (God) as you've just said. Could you get any
> > more confused? And you think you have "clarity" on what the
> > Scriptures reveal? Very sad.
>
> To bad you don't know scriptures.
>
> Exo 7:1 So יהוה said to Mosheh, “See, I have made you an elohim to
> Pharaoh, and Aharon your brother is your prophet.
>
> Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
> Footnote: 1Or mighty one, which is proof that elohim is but a title,
> indicating order or authority – it is not a proper name.
By the way, can you possibly read and COMPREHEND Footnote 1 you've
supplied above (i.e. this "proof that elohim is but a title,
indicating order or authority – it is not a proper name"), rather than
just copying and pasting it.
The ISR Scriptures you've come to worship are TELLING YOU ELOHIYM is
NOT a NAME, something you've been harassing me and falsely accusing me
about for weeks, claiming Elohiym/God were names and not titles, and
that I was a hypocrite and blasphemous because I used the ENGLISH
TITLE GOD INSTEAD OF ELOHIYM - ALSO A TITLE.
The footnote is also trying to tell you it may mean "mighty one" there
and not a 'god'.
READ YOUR OWN POSTS YOU'VE COPIED AND PASTED, WHY DON'T YOU?
Linda Lee
You sure don't follow the teachings of the Messiah.
It's BAIT, NOT "bate", why don't you learn to spell or something? You
constantly use the wrong words for things, and you think people should
listen to you? You can't even comprehend the difference between "your"
and "you're" - EVER.
You don't deny you're trying to provoke to bring others down to your
harassing, BAITING level, the others being me, you sorry little sicko
false prophet. You reveal what your motives are, to attempt to
destroy believers and the Messiah, there is no truth in you.
Linda Lee
LOL. IS that my "biggest problem". Too bad the Scriptures (ISR
version) that you worship and copied and pasted later in this thread
agree with me that God i.e. Elohiym is a TITLE and not a name.
On Oct 13, 1:04 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 3:57 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Moses was NOT Elohiym (God) as you've just said. Could you get any
> > more confused? And you think you have "clarity" on what the
> > Scriptures reveal? Very sad.
>
> To bad you don't know scriptures.
>
> Exo 7:1 So יהוה said to Mosheh, “See, I have made you an elohim to
> Pharaoh, and Aharon your brother is your prophet.
>
***********
> Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
> Footnote: 1Or mighty one, which is proof that elohim is but a title,
> indicating order or authority – it is not a proper name.
***********
Elohiym is "NOT A PROPER NAME" according to your own quote. It is
really too bad that you can't speak hardly a single sentence without
some error or fraud in it.
guardian Snow
> The footnote is also trying to tell you it may mean "mighty one" there
> and not a 'god'.
>
> READ YOUR OWN POSTS YOU'VE COPIED AND PASTED, WHY DON'T YOU?
Exo 7:1 And Hashem said unto Moshe, See, I have made thee as Elohim to
Pharaoh: and Aharon thy brother shall be thy navi.
Orthodox Jewish Bible
Don't think it's one translation. Just because you don't recognize
the word because you are hard hearted and refuse to come out of using
gentile terms.. Why is that?
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 4:21 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > The footnote is also trying to tell you it may mean "mighty one" there
> > and not a 'god'.
>
> > READ YOUR OWN POSTS YOU'VE COPIED AND PASTED, WHY DON'T YOU?
>
> Exo 7:1 And Hashem said unto Moshe, See, I have made thee as Elohim to
> Pharaoh: and Aharon thy brother shall be thy navi.
>
> Orthodox Jewish Bible
>
> Don't think it's one translation. Just because you don't recognize
> the word because you are hard hearted and refuse to come out of using
> gentile terms.. Why is that?
Always the fraud. Drop the pretense; you know what I was talking
about i.e. your false claim that Elohiym is a name and that I was a
hypocrite for using the word God.
***********
You posted (and deleted in your response here, of course, trying to
appear justified):
> Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
> **** Footnote: 1Or mighty one, which is proof that ELOHIM is but a TITLE,
> indicating order or authority – it is NOT a proper NAME. ****
***********
Elohiym is "NOT A PROPER NAME", hypocrite, according to your own
quote from the ISR Scriptures footnote for Exo. 4:16 (above). It is
really too bad that you can't speak hardly a single sentence without
some error or fraud in it, and deliberately use false claims to attack
believers as you've done repeatedly when you claimed Elohiym was a
proper name and not a title. The Scriptures (ISR) that you worship
DISAGREE with your false allegation.
LOL. You yourself provide info that exposes you; it must be God's
work exposing you.
READ YOUR OWN POSTS OF SCRIPTURES YOU'VE COPIED AND PASTED, WHY DON'T
YOU?
You're simply a WOLF who sometimes wears SHEEP'S CLOTHING in order to
pull the wool over people's eyes.
guardian Snow
> Elohiym is "NOT A PROPER NAME", hypocrite, according to your own
> quote from the ISR Scriptures footnote for Exo. 4:16 (above). It is
> really too bad that you can't speak hardly a single sentence without
> some error or fraud in it, and deliberately use false claims to attack
> believers as you've done repeatedly when you claimed Elohiym was a
> proper name and not a title. The Scriptures (ISR) that you worship
> DISAGREE with your false allegation.
Linda, you really have an issue in reading comprehension, I'm not the
first to tell you that either. I never said it was a name and that is
my point. You keep using the title God, when you know it's just that,
a title. Is Yehoshua Elohim, Yes. Is Moses Elohim, Yes.
Elohim and by extension God mean only mighty or strong one. Your
issue is that you keep using God as a proper (name) noun. Until you
unplug and reboot... you can't see that the father is the one you are
to worship in the spirit.
Joh 4:23 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true
worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the
Father also does seek such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
in spirit and truth.”
Joh 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the
One who is called Anointed. When that One comes, He shall announce to
us all.”
Joh 4:26 יהושע said to her, “I who am speaking to you am He.”
It couldn't be any clearer... true worshippers shall worship THE
FATHER in spirit and truth. PICK YOUR VERSION:
Joh 4:23
(VW) But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will
do homage to the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such
to do homage to Him.
(HNV) But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers will
worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to
be his worshippers.
(JPS)
(KJV+) ButG235 the hourG5610 cometh,G2064 andG2532 nowG3568 is,G2076
whenG3753 theG3588 trueG228 worshippersG4353 shall worshipG4352
theG3588 FatherG3962 inG1722 spiritG4151 andG2532 in truth:G225
forG1063 theG3588 FatherG3962(G2532) seekethG2212 suchG5108 to
worshipG4352 him.G846
(KJV-1611) But the houre commeth, and now is, when the true
worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit, and in trueth: for the
Father seeketh such to worship him.
(KJVR) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father
seeketh such to worship him.
(MSG) But the time is coming--it has, in fact, come--when what you're
called will not matter and where you go to worship will not matter.
"It's who you are and the way you live that count before God. Your
worship must engage your spirit in the pursuit of truth. That's the
kind of people the Father is out looking for: those who are simply and
honestly themselves before him in their worship.
(OJB) But a sha'ah is coming, and now is, when those of the true
avodas kodesh will worship HaAv in the Ruach Hakodesh and in Emes, for
indeed [Elohim] HaAv is seeking such to worship Him.
(The Scriptures 1998+) “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the
true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the
Father also does seek such to worship Him.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 11:34 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Elohiym is "NOT A PROPER NAME", hypocrite, according to your own
> > quote from the ISR Scriptures footnote for Exo. 4:16 (above). It is
> > really too bad that you can't speak hardly a single sentence without
> > some error or fraud in it, and deliberately use false claims to attack
> > believers as you've done repeatedly when you claimed Elohiym was a
> > proper name and not a title. The Scriptures (ISR) that you worship
> > DISAGREE with your false allegation.
< snip the perplexed wolf in sheep's clothing Snowjob/Dark Man's
distortions of the teachings of the Messiah >
guardian Snow
> < snip the perplexed wolf in sheep's clothing Snowjob/Dark Man's
> distortions of the teachings of the Messiah >
Not a distortion... Worship the FATHER, very simple. (HNV)
Joh 4:23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers
will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such
to be his worshippers.
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in
spirit and truth.”
Joh 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah comes,” (he who
is called Anointed One). “When he has come, he will declare to us all
things.”
Joh 4:26 Yeshua said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.”
Yeshua is the Anointed ONE and his message is clear to worship the
FATHER. I'm happy to demonstrate this in any version you know... it's
even in your KJV. So how is this my distortion? Pray:
Mat 6:5 “When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they
love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you,
they have received their reward.
Mat 6:6 But you, when you pray, enter into your inner room, and having
shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father
who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Pray to THE FATHER.. Our Father, who art in HEAVEN...
Mat 6:8 “Therefore do not be like them, for your Father knows what you
need before you ask Him.
Mat 6:9 “This, then, is the way you should pray: ‘Our Father who is in
the heavens, let Your Name be set-apart,
Mat 6:10 let Your reign come, let Your desire be done on earth as it
is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 ‘Give us today our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 ‘And do not lead us into trial,1 but deliver us from the
wicked one – because Yours is the reign and the power and the esteem,
forever. Amĕn.’ Footnote: 1See 26:41.
Mat 6:14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly
Father shall also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 “But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither
shall your Father forgive your trespasses.
Who do you pray to and even more important.. who forgives you.. YOUR
HEAVENLY FATHER.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 1:27 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > < snip the perplexed wolf in sheep's clothing Snowjob/Dark Man's
> > distortions of the teachings of the Messiah >
>
> Not a distortion... Worship the FATHER, very simple. (HNV)
>
> Joh 4:23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers
> will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such
> to be his worshippers.
> Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in
> spirit and truth.”
The Father and The Son are one and the same. Our Teacher and Guide
was teaching people how to pray to HIM.
Yahashua`.
> and even more important.. who forgives you..
Yahashua`.
> YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER.
Yahashua`.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the
palsy, Son, THY SINS BE FORGIVEN THEE.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and
reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive
sins but God only?
Mar 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they
so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these
things in your hearts?
Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy
sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and
walk?
Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth
to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Mar 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way
into thine house.
>
> Did you make a difference in the world today?
Apparently not; you're still confused.
>
> Shalom,
> *´¨)
> ¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
> (¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
>
> 'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
> forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
> You are responsible for your rose.
> Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua<-- joinhttp://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
guardian Snow
> Apparently not; you're still confused.
Good now take a hike... Start your own thread.
Did you make a difference in the world today?
Shalom,
Linda Lee
> On Oct 14, 2:10 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Apparently not; you're still confused.
>
> Good now take a hike... Start your own thread.
Poor little control freak Snowjob. This is not your own thread. You
don't control it or Usenet, and you don't control me. I'll go 'hiking'
when I feel like it; not when you order me to, you wolf in sheep's
clothing.
guardian Snow
> Poor little control freak Snowjob. This is not your own thread. You
> don't control it or Usenet, and you don't control me. I'll go 'hiking'
> when I feel like it; not when you order me to, you wolf in sheep's
> clothing.
Can't even follow the Messiah either.. shame on you stalker.
Linda Lee
Stalker? You started this thread with a post addressed to me; you
really are confused, aren't you?
guardian Snow
This thread.. yes... the other 5.. no. Can't help but be yourself I
suppose.
Have the last word Linda.. I know you need it... maybe then you can
listen to the Messiah.
Shame...
Mat 15:13 But He answering, said, “Every plant which My heavenly
Father has not planted shall be uprooted.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
The sad thing is that we don't agree on if the Messiah had the spirit
of our Father in him... you just refuse to stick to one topic and get
things clear in your head.
I'm done. Your turn.. tell me how horrible I am.
Barry OGrady
> Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
If there is an elohim1 there must be an elohim2.
Tell us about elohim2
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
guardian SnowPheonix
>
> > Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> > that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
>
> If there is an elohim1 there must be an elohim2.
> Tell us about elohim2
>
> Barry
Brilliant question Barry. See, you ask this because your not polluted
with false ideas and can think logically. Now remember the word
elohim has been translated God.. so a plural word has been made
singular and thats why Christians chase their tales in circles trying
to explain something that if it had been properly translated, would be
no issue.
Elohim means, "Mighty one".. So for example Moses was an elohim to
pharoh in scriptures. Exo 7:1.
The Messiah formerly known as Christ was an Elohim.
Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness to יהוה of
hosts in the land of Mitsrayim. When they cry to יהוה because of the
oppressors, He sends them a Saviour and an Elohim, and shall deliver
them.
Now look at how this is translated:
Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD
of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD
because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a
great one, and he shall deliver them.
But now look at this...
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHVH; and beside me there is no saviour.
See where the name of the Father is hidden in the false translation of
"LORD". After all, Christians think Jesus is Lord. But because the
Father sends the saviour, he should have credit but...
mistranslations...
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’
But in fact the Messiah is sent by the Father just as he says:
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son
to be the Saviour of the world.
And Christians are to blind to see simple truth.
Thanks for asking.. I hope that was clear to you because all the
Christians never understand that words have been mistranslated and
they are praying to the wrong person.
guardian Snow
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:00:22 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
>
> <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >Where I have prophesied my lady? Clearly you never read the post "My
> >prophesy" or you would have known that it was speaking 'bout the
> >prophets in scriptures and not myself.
>
After you and Linda stop dumping manure, deal.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
o o
/^^^^^7
' ' ,oO))))))))Oo,
,'))))))))))))))), /{
' ,'o ))))))))))))))))={
> ))))))))))))))))={
`, ))))))\ \)))))))={
',))))))))\/)))))' \{
'*O))))))))O*'
Linda Lee
> On Nov 2, 1:41 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:00:22 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
>
> > <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> > >Where I have prophesied my lady? Clearly you never read the post "My
> > >prophesy" or you would have known that it was speaking 'bout the
> > >prophets in scriptures and not myself.
>
> > You have done that already in past. You need to park your wheat plow.
>
> After you and Linda stop dumping manure, deal.
You're such a damned hypocrite; you're the one who started crying
murderer, you slime.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> On Oct 15, 1:46 pm, Barry OGrady <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Exo 4:16 “And he shall speak for you to the people. And it shall be
> > > that he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be an elohim1 for him.
>
> > If there is an elohim1 there must be an elohim2.
> > Tell us about elohim2
>
> > Barry
>
> Brilliant question Barry.
And a typically stupid response to his joke about the footnote
reference 1.
>See, you ask this because your not polluted
> with false ideas and can think logically. Now remember the word
> elohim has been translated God.. so a plural word has been made
> singular and thats why Christians chase their tales in circles trying
> to explain something that if it had been properly translated, would be
> no issue.
>
> Elohim means, "Mighty one"..
You're a pathological liar who now thinks he can lie with impunity to
atheists.
Elohim - Heb. 430 -
H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
<Delete the rest of the pathological liar's garbage>
guardian Snow
pretty broad spectrum of availible choices.. ironically, "mighty one"
fits ever last one of them.
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
So, which one are you? I don't get where you think your GOD, after
all, Hebrew doesn't have lower case letters.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
o o
/^^^^^7
' ' ,oO))))))))Oo,
,'))))))))))))))), /{
' ,'o ))))))))))))))))={
> ))))))))))))))))={
`, ))))))\ \)))))))={
',))))))))\/)))))' \{
'*O))))))))O*'
Linda Lee
No it doesn't; you're another dunce who thinks he can redefine terms
to fit his pathology.
>
> Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
> Most High.
>
> So, which one are you? I don't get where you think your GOD, after
> all, Hebrew doesn't have lower case letters.
>
John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I
said, Ye are gods?"
Well, we're not mighty ones, and we're not judges or rulers, and so
Psa. 82:6 (below) and the Messiah (above) means we are the angels, the
fallen angels, a concept that is beyond someone of your limited
spirituality, being that you are still blind.
Psa 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are
children of the most High."
And since we have become fallen and according to the Scriptures have
been cast down to Earth and to Hades, Psa. 82:7-8 "But ye shall die
like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the
earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations".
Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall...
Psa. 82:5 "They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on
in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course."
guardian Snow
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee> Religious people are like that. Their loss of an innocence.
>
> http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4494332279887844652
>
> Pathetic examples of lost innocence and of uncooked truth.
I think it's tragic that both of you somehow think you have any
inspiration and spend all your time in this doctrine of hate you both
preach. It's very troubling to me that you think that hating
everybody is a good thing.
The worst part of it is that it's not the evil you hate.. it's people
you hate. People are created in the image of our Father and if you
hate them, your not demonstrating love of the Father.
I hope that sinks in to either of you. Good luck and take care.
Linda Lee
> On Nov 2, 3:46 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee
>
> > <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
> > >Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall...
>
> > Religious people are like that. Their loss of an innocence.
>
> >http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4494332279887844652
>
> > Pathetic examples of lost innocence and of uncooked truth.
>
> I think it's tragic that both of you somehow think you have any
> inspiration and spend all your time in this doctrine of hate you both
> preach. It's very troubling to me that you think that hating
> everybody is a good thing.
>
> The worst part of it is that it's not the evil you hate.. it's people
> you hate. People are created in the image of our Father and if you
> hate them, your not demonstrating love of the Father.
>
> I hope that sinks in to either of you. Good luck and take care.
May GOD bless you Snowjob; I'll pray for you. I hope it works because
I really expect more of you than the hypocrisy you typically display.
guardian Snow
YAHWEH does bless me Linda because I acknowledge his name.
Mat 11:25 At that time יהושע responding, said, “I thank You, Father,
Master of the heavens and earth, because You have hidden these matters
from clever and learned ones and have revealed them to babes.
Thanks for the prayers. I would rather you pray for knowledge.
Hos 4:4 “However, let no one strive or reprove another, for your
people are like those striving with a priest.
Hos 4:5 “And you shall stumble in the day, and the prophet shall also
stumble with you in the night. And I shall make your mother perish.
Hos 4:6 “My people have perished for lack of knowledge. Because you
have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being priest for Me. Since
you have forgotten the Torah of your Elohim, I also forget your
children.
Hos 4:7 “As they were increased, so they sinned against Me. My esteem
they have changed into shame.
Take care and be blessed Linda.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
There is not love where there is no will.
Indira Gandhi
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
Barry OGrady
>On Nov 2, 8:38 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Nov 2, 3:46 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee
>>
>> > <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>> > >Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall...
>>
>> > Religious people are like that. Their loss of an innocence.
>>
>> > Pathetic examples of lost innocence and of uncooked truth.
>>
>> I think it's tragic that both of you somehow think you have any
>> inspiration and spend all your time in this doctrine of hate you both
>> preach. It's very troubling to me that you think that hating
>> everybody is a good thing.
>>
>> The worst part of it is that it's not the evil you hate.. it's people
>> you hate. People are created in the image of our Father and if you
>> hate them, your not demonstrating love of the Father.
>>
>> I hope that sinks in to either of you. Good luck and take care.
>
>
>May GOD bless you Snowjob; I'll pray for you.
You really don't trust God.
>I hope it works because
>I really expect more of you than the hypocrisy you typically display.
I'm sorry to hear you are so disappointed with God.
Barry OGrady
>On Nov 2, 3:46 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee
>>
>> <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>> >Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall...
>>
>> Religious people are like that. Their loss of an innocence.
>>
>> Pathetic examples of lost innocence and of uncooked truth.
>
>I think it's tragic that both of you somehow think you have any
>inspiration and spend all your time in this doctrine of hate you both
>preach. It's very troubling to me that you think that hating
>everybody is a good thing.
Hate is very basis of Christianity. You are called upon to hate anybody
who does not bow down to the Christian church.
>The worst part of it is that it's not the evil you hate.. it's people
>you hate. People are created in the image of our Father and if you
>hate them, your not demonstrating love of the Father.
But they are, because Christians don't use words like normal people.
When Christians speak of the love of God they mean the hate that
God expresses.
>Snow
Barry OGrady
>On Nov 3, 1:45 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 2, 8:38 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 2, 3:46 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee
>>
>> > > <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>> > > >Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall...
>>
>> > > Religious people are like that. Their loss of an innocence.
>>
>> > > Pathetic examples of lost innocence and of uncooked truth.
>>
>> > I think it's tragic that both of you somehow think you have any
>> > inspiration and spend all your time in this doctrine of hate you both
>> > preach. It's very troubling to me that you think that hating
>> > everybody is a good thing.
>>
>> > The worst part of it is that it's not the evil you hate.. it's people
>> > you hate. People are created in the image of our Father and if you
>> > hate them, your not demonstrating love of the Father.
>>
>> > I hope that sinks in to either of you. Good luck and take care.
>>
>> May GOD bless you Snowjob; I'll pray for you. I hope it works because
>> I really expect more of you than the hypocrisy you typically display.
>
>YAHWEH does bless me Linda because I acknowledge his name.
Such a strange God.
>Mat 11:25 At that time ????? responding, said, “I thank You, Father,
>Master of the heavens and earth, because You have hidden these matters
>from clever and learned ones and have revealed them to babes.
Why does God play such stupid games?
>Thanks for the prayers. I would rather you pray for knowledge.
Knowledge leads to atheism.
>Hos 4:4 “However, let no one strive or reprove another, for your
>people are like those striving with a priest.
>Hos 4:5 “And you shall stumble in the day, and the prophet shall also
>stumble with you in the night. And I shall make your mother perish.
>Hos 4:6 “My people have perished for lack of knowledge. Because you
>have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being priest for Me. Since
>you have forgotten the Torah of your Elohim, I also forget your
>children.
>Hos 4:7 “As they were increased, so they sinned against Me. My esteem
>they have changed into shame.
God screws up and blames us.
>Take care and be blessed Linda.
Is that an order?
Ike
news:mmn3h4pp0amv6jhqi...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> Hate is very basis of Christianity.
Here comes Satan, riding on a "white horse" shooting "arrows" of false
accusations at the believers, ala Rev 6:1-2.
[snip]
Ike
Silverfish
news:get0bc$a5e$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
[snip]
[snip]
Ike
Whinny!
SF.
Tom
"Silverfish" <Silverf...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:12259178...@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
> "Ike" <xeickleb...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:get0bc$a5e$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> "Barry OGrady" <god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mmn3h4pp0amv6jhqi...@4ax.com...
>
> [snip]
>
>> Hate is very basis of Christianity.
RIGHT; GOD HATES SIN. EOD.
I
> RIGHT; GOD HATES SIN. EOD.
Then WHY does Tom practise the sin of HATE??????????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fundamentalists seem aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all
negative and destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and
enjoying the golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know
that simile: 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the
Inquisition did largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they?
Wasn't burning heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...
from "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - Robin Skinner & John Cleese (Methuen;
London:1993) p. 287
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Peter Cameron's "Fundamentalism and Freedom" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1995.)
p. 7 ff
To reduce that to convenient headings, the Fundamentalist is uncomfortable
with freedom, truth, and dissent and very much at home with authority,
obedience, and conformity. But the most striking feature of the
Fundamentalist is that, whether he is conscious of it or not, his approach
results in the total contradiction of what he professes to believe.
They will be fearful in the face of any challenge to their security and
brutal in their reaction; they will seek to bolster their security by
persuading others of its validity.; and those others will be persuaded
because of their own increasing sense of insecurity in the modern world.
...the key concepts being security and power ...the Fundamentalist is
usually both a bully and a coward. ...the potential bully in them responds
eagerly to authority and looks forward to the time when they will exercise
that authority; while the most bullying of the bosses tend to shelter behind
the more cowardly and get them to do their dirty work for them.
...security for the convert ... The Fundamentalist deals in absolutes. ...
"We have the answer. The answer is to ask no questions. Everything is set
out in the Holy Book. Simply obey and you will find happiness - in other
words, security."
... Argument, debate, the possibility that they might be wrong - these are
not on the agenda. In any other walk of life they would be regarded as
unhinged. Very few of them have ever been exposed to the simplest form of
biblical criticism, yet they feel qualified to tell people who have spent
half a lifetime on the subject that they are barking up he wrong tree. It's
rather like witchdoctor medicine confronted with real medicine. The
primitive reaction is one of fear, suspicion and hostility - out with the
spears and shields. And the witchdoctors themselves, of course, have vested
interests to protect: their positions of control and authority. naturally
they resist.
... Fundamentalists need an enemy; an enemy both gives them their own
identity and unites them. ...they stand for nothing positive at all - simply
obedience to rules and the condemnation of those who break them.
... Fundamentalists are impervious to rational argument. They are convinced
that they are God's chosen instrument and that their victims are agents of
the devil. They need to be convinced of this, because it is what gives them
purpose to their lives. Fundamentalism's real purpose is not to save but to
condemn: for the dissenter or for the outsider it is dangerous almost be
definition.
... the danger is manifested in the methods used. No holds are barred. All
is fair in holy war. The end always justifies the means. ...appropriate is
the Old Testament norm, according to which the apostate who deviates from
true doctrine contaminates the people of God and must be weeded out and
burned.
The pattern therefore is one of private hearings, and stacked committees,
and kangaroo courts, or - more simply and more devastatingly - a
behind-the-scenes verdict and a sentence of ostracism with no possibility of
appeal.
... a closed system of rules and obedience, and authoritarian control, and
rigid conformity. Instead of a religion of love which proceeds by
invitation, it is a religion of fear which proceeds by intimidation.
... Fundamentalism is wrong, it is a distortion of Christianity, in fact it
is a complete contradiction. ... it masquerades as the truth. Christianity
is not a matter of obeying commandments, or of obtaining salvation through
the acceptance of an authoritative holy book, or of believing in certain
propositions like a physical resurrection. the irony is that what
Fundamentalist Christianity teaches is exactly the sort of thing which the
founder of Christianity came to warn people about.
...Fundamentalism ... thrives on protective stupidity.
... fear in the face of any challenge to the status quo; indoctrination in
order to prevent dissent, and brutality in suppressing dissent; the
exaltation of authority and rules and control and manipulation; and
certainty on the part of those in charge that they possess the truth, hand
in hand with an actual perversion of the truth into mere expediency.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
Barry OGrady
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
and for him:
Colossians 1:16
>[snip]
>
>Ike
Barry OGrady
>"Silverfish" <Silverf...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:12259178...@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
>> "Ike" <xeickleb...@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:get0bc$a5e$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>> "Barry OGrady" <god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:mmn3h4pp0amv6jhqi...@4ax.com...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Hate is very basis of Christianity.
>
>
> RIGHT; GOD HATES SIN. EOD.
God created sin to give him one more thing to hate.
Colossians 1:16 says
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
and for him:
Barry
Linda Lee
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:31:06 -0800, "Tom" <To...@home.con> wrote:
> >news:12259178...@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
> >> "Ike" <xeickleberrybo...@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>news:get0bc$a5e$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> "Barry OGrady" <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:mmn3h4pp0amv6jhqi...@4ax.com...
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >>> Hate is very basis of Christianity.
>
> > RIGHT; GOD HATES SIN. EOD.
>
> God created sin to give him one more thing to hate.
> Colossians 1:16 says
> For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
> in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
> dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
> and for him:
>
> Barry
> =====
> Home pagehttp://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Sin occurred before The Creation.
lynx
> On Nov 5, 8:52 pm, Barry OGrady <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:31:06 -0800, "Tom" <To...@home.con> wrote:
>>
>>> "Silverfish" <Silverfish1...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:12259178...@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
>>>
>>>> "Ike" <xeickleberrybo...@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:get0bc$a5e$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>> "Barry OGrady" <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:mmn3h4pp0amv6jhqi...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>> Hate is very basis of Christianity.
>>>>>
>>> RIGHT; GOD HATES SIN. EOD.
>>>
>> God created sin to give him one more thing to hate.
>> Colossians 1:16 says
>> For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
>> in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
>> dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
>> and for him:
>>
>>
>
Barry OGrady
That's an interesting take. If God created everything except himself then God must
have been the original sinner infecting all of creation with his sin.
Tom
"lynx" <no...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:hesQk.11444$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
occurred prior to Genesis 1:1......
Nobody said this stuff was easy...
Linda Lee
God created the 'host of heaven' i.e. angels before he ever created
the physical realm. The Scriptures say the original fallen angel was
not created evil, but when iniquity was found in him, he was cast from
heaven along with those angels who had decided to join him in sin.
You want to blame everything bad on God (a very unwise decision), but
the Scriptures say God hates evil, and only creates evil in someone's
life to lead them to make the choice to repent so they may re-enter
Heaven, so God's motives are always good. Are your motives good in
accusing God? I doubt it.
Linda Lee
Genesis Three is an allegory of the fall of the angels; the 'serpent'
tempting Adam/his wife to disobey God being symbolic of Satan/Lucifer
bringing about the fall of the angels by tempting them to follow him
into sin, rather than remaining loyal to God.
I
>>> Sin occurred before The Creation.
>> Not according to the bible.
> The rebellion of satan is generally considered by many people to have
> occurred prior to Genesis 1:1......
Not "many people" ONLY Fundamentalists.
The FRUIT OF FUNDAMENTALISM (& TOM) is:
- hate / hatred
- sorrow
- war / state of war
- impatience
- unkindness
- bad / badness
- harshness
- infidelity / unfaithfulness
- undisciplined / lack of self constraint
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fundamentalists seem aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all
negative and destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and
enjoying the golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know
that simile: 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the
Inquisition did largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they?
Wasn't burning heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...
from "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - Robin Skinner & John Cleese (Methuen;
London:1993) p. 287
--
Barry OGrady
Barry
guardian Snow
> Sin occurred before The Creation.
Wrong as usual.
Gen 1:31 And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very
good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the
sixth day.
He would not have said wickedness is good. What part of the creation
story don't you believe?
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
It takes but one positive thought when given a chance to survive and
thrive to overpower an entire army of negative thoughts.
Robert H. Schuller
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV_W.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
guardian Snow
> God created the 'host of heaven' i.e. angels before he ever created
> the physical realm. The Scriptures say the original fallen angel was
> not created evil, but when iniquity was found in him, he was cast from
> heaven along with those angels who had decided to join him in sin.
> You want to blame everything bad on God (a very unwise decision), but
> the Scriptures say God hates evil, and only creates evil in someone's
> life to lead them to make the choice to repent so they may re-enter
> Heaven, so God's motives are always good. Are your motives good in
> accusing God? I doubt it.
Wrong again. Satan is not cast from heaven until the Great
Tribulation.
Job 1:6 And the day came to be that the sons of Elohim came to present
themselves before יהוה, and Satan also came among them.
What part of Job and Revelations don't you believe?
Rev 12:5 And she bore a male child1 who was to shepherd all nations
with a rod of iron. And her child was caught away to Elohim and to His
throne. Footnote: 1Isa. 66:7.
Revelation 12 describes the birth of the Messiah and then after
that...
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old,
called the Devil and Satan, who leads all the world astray. He was
thrown to the earth, and his messengers were thrown out with him.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Problems are not stop signs, they are guidelines.
Robert H. Schuller
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
guardian Snow
> Genesis Three is an allegory of the fall of the angels; the 'serpent'
> tempting Adam/his wife to disobey God being symbolic of Satan/Lucifer
> bringing about the fall of the angels by tempting them to follow him
> into sin, rather than remaining loyal to God.
Oh.. so here you admit you don't believe Genesis and you deny the
creation.
Allegory is another way of say fiction or a fable. Now your telling
people Moses lied.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Some people are at the top of the ladder, some are in the middle,
still more are at the bottom, and a whole lot more don't even know
there is a ladder.
Robert H. Schuller
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
Linda Lee
Once again Snowjob twists the meaning of the Scriptures. The Creation
was "very good" because it is the realm in which humankind is provided
salvation and is given the chance to repent of their original sin.
Snowjob has no concept of the Scriptures whatsoever, since the
Scriptures are chock full of symbolism and Snowjob considers symbolism
and allegory a lie. He also remains unaware that the scribe Ezra is
said to have compiled all the books of the Pentateuch (the first 'five
books of Moses'), and many scholars believe he compiled the entire
Hebrew Scriptures.
He also is ignorant of the fact that Satan is said to have 'come among
the sons of God' and is not designated as a son of God: Job 1:6 "Now
there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before
the LORD, and Satan came also among them."
Apparently, Snowjob didn't bother to read past Job 1:6 (not that it
would matter because he couldn't comprehend the first six verses) and
hasn't noticed that Satan doesn't act like the other un-fallen angels
in the Scriptures; Satan argues with God and would have killed Job, a
man whom God said was a good man who worshipped him, if God hadn't
prevented him from doing so.
Genesis Three is an allegory of the fall of Satan and the fallen
angels, who are symbolized as the 'serpent' and Adam and his wife
(because the angels were cast out into the temporary hell the Greeks
call Hades to await birth into Adamic flesh God had created for them):
Satan was cast out when God sent 'Adam and his wife' (i.e. the fallen
angels) out of Heaven/Paradise and forbade them to eat any longer of
the 'tree of life' until Judgment Day:
Gen. 3:14 "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast
done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of
the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all
the days of thy life".
guardian Snow
Linda stated:
> Sin occurred before The Creation.
> Once again Snowjob twists the meaning of the Scriptures. The Creation
> was "very good" because it is the realm in which humankind is provided
> salvation and is given the chance to repent of their original sin.
Thats just the most ridiculous thing you've ever said Jezebel.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
Nope.. nothing about sin and this is the BEGINNING. Because you don't
believe the scriptures starting at verse one, your now fabricating
your own made up religion and not able to support your garbage with
any textual proof.
> Snowjob has no concept of the Scriptures whatsoever,
then how come I'm able to quote them and your just making things up as
you go?
> since the
> Scriptures are chock full of symbolism and Snowjob considers symbolism
> and allegory a lie.
No, I consider your fiction a lie.
> He also remains unaware that the scribe Ezra is
> said to have compiled all the books of the Pentateuch (the first 'five
> books of Moses'), and many scholars believe he compiled the entire
> Hebrew Scriptures.
Compiling has nothing to do with the author.
> He also is ignorant of the fact that Satan is said to have 'come among
> the sons of God' and is not designated as a son of God: Job 1:6 "Now
> there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before
> the LORD, and Satan came also among them."
Never made such an ignorant claim. Your reading comprehension is so
bad, you can't remember.
Job 1:7 And YHWH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan
answered YHWH, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from
walking up and down in it.
Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
angel of YHWH, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2 And YHWH said unto Satan, YHWH rebuke thee, O Satan; even YHWH
that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked
out of the fire?
So we see that Satan is in fact goes to heaven all the time to accuse
"night and day".
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in the heaven, “Now have
come the deliverance and the power and the reign of our Elohim,1 and
the authority of His Messiah, for the accuser of our brothers, who
accused them before our Elohim day and night, has been thrown down.
> Apparently, Snowjob didn't bother to read past Job 1:6 (not that it
> would matter because he couldn't comprehend the first six verses) and
> hasn't noticed that Satan doesn't act like the other un-fallen angels
> in the Scriptures; Satan argues with God and would have killed Job, a
> man whom God said was a good man who worshipped him, if God hadn't
> prevented him from doing so.
But he's before the throne of YHWH when he does it which is proof your
wrong as usual.
<snip) Linda's drivel that says all of Genesis is fiction.
Gen 1:31 And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very
good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the
sixth day.
If sin had predated creation then he wouldn't have said that ALL THAT
HE HAD MADE was VERY GOOD.
Sin is by definition Transgression of the Torah.. So who transgressed
the Torah prior to being created? What commandment did they break
before the creation? Come on.. if your going to continue with this
stupidity then you had better be able to support your garbage with
scriptures...
Compare:
Satan was cast out when God sent 'Adam and his wife' (i.e. the fallen
angels) out of Heaven/Paradise
But notice what Linda said here:
"Genesis Three is an allegory of the fall of the angels; the 'serpent'
tempting Adam/his wife to disobey
*God being symbolic of Satan/Lucifer*"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/96b98ca5a9e011e1
Satan tempted EVE, not Adam. You can't even keep your story straight
from one post to the next.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wifes name Eve; because she was the
mother of all living.
So does that mean your an Angel Linda?
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
If you ever find happiness by hunting for it, you will find it, as the
old woman did her lost spectacles, safe on her own nose all the time.
Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there.
Josh Billings
guardian Snow
> <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >Nope.. nothing about sin and this is the BEGINNING. Because you don't
> >believe the scriptures starting at verse one, your now fabricating
> >your own made up religion and not able to support your garbage with
> >any textual proof.
>
> It is wise to be constructive instead of overly defensive.
>
> You relay on a book that has been proven to be corruptive.
>
> Separation from God is them who has not the word of truth.
>
> I got a real 1611 AD Babble. Screw all you Latin people.
So you form your own Elohim out of what you believe, it's your choice
and essentially if you and Linda could learn to stop dwelling on the
subject of me, that would be good. I'm happy to trust the Hebrew
scriptures as I have them. It really doesn't mean much to me what you
and Linda choose to believe.
I would rather the subject of anything about me depart from Linda's
lips about how she wants a snowjob. I'm happy to respect that you
disagree and I'm happy if she will learn to live without me. She so
disparate, she still comes back to messianic.Yehoshua just to check up
on me... she needs to move on.
I don't care to be bothered with "fallen angel" theories. I don't
care if she's thinks she is a fallen angel... it's silly. Are you
suppose to be one also?
Linda Lee
wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2:05 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> > >Nope.. nothing about sin and this is the BEGINNING. Because you don't
> > >believe the scriptures starting at verse one, your now fabricating
> > >your own made up religion and not able to support your garbage with
> > >any textual proof.
>
> > It is wise to be constructive instead of overly defensive.
>
> > You relay on a book that has been proven to be corruptive.
>
> > Separation from God is them who has not the word of truth.
>
> > I got a real 1611 AD Babble. Screw all you Latin people.
>
> So you form your own Elohim out of what you believe, it's your choice
> and essentially if you and Linda could learn to stop dwelling on the
> subject of me, that would be good. I'm happy to trust the Hebrew
> scriptures as I have them. It really doesn't mean much to me what you
> and Linda choose to believe.
>
> I would rather the subject of anything about me depart from Linda's
> lips about how she wants a snowjob. I'm happy to respect that you
> disagree and I'm happy if she will learn to live without me. She so
> disparate, she still comes back to messianic.Yehoshua just to check up
> on me... she needs to move on.
>
> I don't care to be bothered with "fallen angel" theories. I don't
> care if she's thinks she is a fallen angel... it's silly. Are you
> suppose to be one also?
You're really an internet loon and troll, aren't you?
guardian Snow
What's worse.. the loon and troll or the one wasting time talking to
the loon and troll that believes she's a fallen angel.
I noticed you still didn't recognize that Eve was tempted by Satan..
that really irks you doesn't it?
Kindly move on Linda.. Just leave me out of your topics.. is that so
hard for you. Do you want me that much that you can't help put post
about me all day long?
lynx
What is a 'Restored Names' KJV?
Terry Cross
> Sin is by definition Transgression of the Torah..
I hope not. You might want to reconsider that statement.
TCross
guardian Snow
> >http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV_W.zip <--free
> > download of the Restored Names King James Version
>
> What is a 'Restored Names' KJV?
Restored name versions are just that. You see, the name of your
heavenly Father isn't "LORD GOD", it's not Hashem (the name) and it's
not Adonis (Lord) that are all false titles. The name has been
removed from almost all versions of the bible. Allow me to illustrate
some of the version I keep on hand...
Deu 6:15
(RNKJV_W) (For YHWH thy Elohim is a jealous El among you) lest the
anger of YHWH thy Elohim be kindled against thee, and destroy thee
from off the face of the earth.
(Voice of the Wilderness) (for Jehovah your God is a jealous Mighty
God among you), lest
the anger of Jehovah your God burn against you and destroy you from
off the face of the earth.
(RNKJV) (For YHVH thy Elohim is a jealous El among you) lest the anger
of YHVH thy Elohim be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off
the face of the earth.
(The Scriptures 1998+) for יהוה your Elohim is a jealous Ěl in your
midst, lest the displeasure of יהוה your Elohim burn against you, then
He shall destroy you from the face of the earth.
(WEB) for Yahweh your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; lest
the anger of Yahweh your God be kindled against you, and he destroy
you from off the face of the earth.
I have 5 different version of scriptures that all recognize A NAME of
our heavenly Father. What this does is adds clarity to the text you
are reading and it's hard to explain beyond that but when you realize
that the name of your heavenly Father has been removed from the entire
bible, this should be a concern to everybody.
I recommend readers pick a version they feel comfortable with and
restore the name of the Father to there bibles.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Beliefs have the power to create and the power to destroy. Human
beings have the awesome ability to take any experience of their lives
and create a meaning that disempowers them or one that can literally
save their lives.
Tony Robbins
guardian Snow
How would you define it Terry?
Even Saul knew this fact:
Rom 3:20 Therefore by works of Torah no flesh shall be declared right
before Him, for by the Torah is the knowledge of sin.
You know.. not all sins are punished by death in the Torah.
Psa 19:13 Also keep Your servant back from presumptuous ones, Do not
let them rule over me. Then shall I be perfect, and innocent of great
transgression.
You see, you are innocent as long as you don't commit GREAT
TRANSGRESSION, That is breaking the Commandments.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be
pleasing before You, O יהוה, my rock and my redeemer.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
I challenge you to make your life a masterpiece. I challenge you to
join the ranks of those people who live what they teach, who walk
their talk.
Tony Robbins
Linda Lee
As usual you deliberately twist things and/or can't comprehend the
concept that all people are the fallen angels of Scripture.
>
> I noticed you still didn't recognize that Eve was tempted by Satan..
> that really irks you doesn't it?
You really are a moron, aren't you? What you take literally is an
allegory that demonstrates that Eve was tempted, but Adam willfully
sinned; and you think surrendering to temptation is worse than
deliberate rebellion and sin? You would.
This is certainly 'over your head', but the female is symbolic of the
flesh, and the male part of 'the human being' ("Adam" of Gen. 2:21-23)
is symbolic of the mind. It demonstrates what the Messiah taught i.e.
that it is the mind that corrupts the flesh (not the flesh that
corrupts the mind, as the false apostle Paul taught).
>
> Kindly move on Linda.. Just leave me out of your topics.. is that so
> hard for you.
What a damn SISSY you are; you announced you were my "enemy" a month
ago after I refused your command to desist using the terms "God" and
"Holy", and since learning I voted for President Obama, you have
accused me of being murderous on these ngs too many times to count the
last few weeks ...and now you want ME to "move on".
Why didn't YOU "move on", Snowjob you hypocritical little
manipulator? I think I know the answer; you're abusive and attacking,
but too much of a pansy to be able to take what you dish out. That's
typical of cowardly attacking people like you.
> Do you want me that much that you can't help put post
> about me all day long?
ROFLOL. You're a putrid little egomaniac. I guess you're too
delusional and imbecilic to realize you're just a bunch of
**accusatory words** here, SATAN.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
What happened to the "Shalom" you always hypocritically, and
blasphemously, post after your usual attacks? Or did those cease when
you announced you were my enemy?
Linda Lee
> On Nov 8, 10:25 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 7, 7:00 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> > > Sin is by definition Transgression of the Torah..
>
> > I hope not. You might want to reconsider that statement.
>
> > TCross
>
> How would you define it Terry?
>
> Even Saul knew this fact:
>
> Rom 3:20 Therefore by works of Torah no flesh shall be declared right
> before Him, for by the Torah is the knowledge of sin.
>
Wonder of wonders - the always hypocritical, lying, double-minded
Snowjob is preaching Paul/Saul's denial of works doctrine again.
Tom
"lynx" <no...@nothere.com> wrote
> What is a 'Restored Names' KJV?
>
=names= sound more like they did 2000 years ago. Why not just transliterate
the text from Greek or Hebrew letters into our alphabet? EN arche en ho
logos...
I
> A batch of nonsense.
I totally agree!
Tom wrote a batch of nonsense.
Tom is unable to debate ANYTHING.
Tom's whole fundamentalist position is about HATE and INSULT.
I find Tom's position puzzling. Tom claims to have a very high IQ and be
learned in all maner of subjects buy is UNABLE to provide one lucid
statement without an insult.
Tom can only insult and NEVER DEBATE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fundamentalists seem aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all
negative and destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and
enjoying the golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know
that simile: 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the
Inquisition did largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they?
Wasn't burning heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...
from "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - Robin Skinner & John Cleese (Methuen;
London:1993) p. 287
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'VE ISSUED A CHALLENGE THAT TOM CANNOT NEGATE.
IF
TOM cannot prove my proof incorrect
THEN
it must be correct by default.
My proof is based upon ..............
#####################################################
1. GOD'S EXISTENCE
GOD DOES NOT EXIST
None of the proofs of God's existence work.
Demonstrated:
- http://www.philosophyonline.co.uk/pages/proofs.htm
- Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"
Proof of God's non-existence
Demonstrated:
- Jean Paul-Sartre "On Being And Nothingness"
WHAT IS GOD?
"Ground of all being"
Demonstrated:
- Paul Tillich "The Courage To Be"
- John A T Robinson "Honest To God"
- Karen Armstrong "A History Of God"
- John Shelby Spong "Why Christianity Must Change Or Die", "A New
Christianity For A New World"
2. THE BIBLE
BIBLE CONSTRUCTION
The bible is an entirely man-made construction that has been edited and
contains some forgeries.
Demonstrated:
- Funk, Hoover & The Jesus Seminar "The Five Gopels"
- John Shelby Spong "Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalism"
- John Shelby Spong "Jesus For The Non-Religious"
EARLY CHRISTIANITY
Early Christianity was a sect of Judaism whose adherents belived in Jesus as
the human messiah anointed by God
Demonstrated:
- John Dominic Crossan "The Birth Of Christianity"
- Funk, Hoover & The Jesus Seminar "The Five Gopels"
3. JESUS OF NAZARETH
JESUS IS NOT GOD
Jesus as a human anointed by God
Demonstrated:
- Robert W. Funk "Honest To Jesus"
- John Dominic Crossan "Jesus: A revolutionary Biography", "The Historical
Jesus"
- John Domic Crossan & Jonathan L. Reed "Excavating Jesus: Beneth the
Stones, Behind The Texts"
- John Shelby Spong "Jesus For The Non-Religious"
- Funk, Hoover & The Jesus Seminar "The Five Gopels"
4. METHODOLOGY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"SEVEN PILLARS" OF CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARLY WISDOM
1. The distinction between the historical Jesus (uncovered by historical
excavation) and the Christ of Faith (encapsulated in the first creeds).
2. Recognising that the synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew & Luke) are much
closer to the historical Jesus than John's gospel which presents a
"spiritual" Jesus.
3. The recogintion of Mark's gospel as prior to Matthew's and Luke's and
their basis.
4. The identification of the hypothetical source Q as the explanation for
the "double tradition" (The material Matthew & Luke have in common beyond
their dependence on Mark.)
5. The liberation of the non-eschatological Jesus of the aphorisms and
parables from Albert Schweitzer's eschatological Jesus,
6. Recognition of the fundamental contrast between the oral culture (ijn
which Jesus was at home) and a print culture (like our own). (The Jesus whom
historians seek will be found in those fragments of tradition that bear the
imprint of orality: short, provocative, memorable, oft-repeated phrases,
sentences, and stories.)
7. The reversal regarding who bears the burden of proof. The gospels are now
assumed to be narratives in which the memory of Jesus is embellished by
mythic elements that express the church's faith in him, and by plausible
fictions that enhance the telling of the gospel for 1st century listeners
who knew about divine men and miracle woprkers first hand. Supposedly
historical elements in these narratives must be proved so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TWO DIFFERING PORTRAITS OF JESUS:
1. The Synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew & Luke)
- Jesus speaks in parables and aphorisms
- God's imperial rule is the theme of Jesus' teaching
2. John's Gospel
- Jesus speaks in long, involved discourses
- Jesus is the theme of his own teaching
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE FOUR SOURCE THEORY:
Matthew used Mark, Q, and is own special source called M.
Luke also used Mark and Q, but had another source called L, which Mathew did
not have.
The material in M & L probably comes from oral tradition.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RULES OF WRITTEN EVIDENCE:
CLUSTERING & CONTEXTING
1. The evangelists frequently group sayings and parables in clusters and
complexes that did not originate with Jesus.
2. The evangelists frequently relocate sayings and parables or invent new
narrative contexts for them.
REVISION & COMMENTARY
3. The evangelists frequently expand sayings or parables, or provide them
with an interpretive overlay or comment.
4. The evangelists often revide or edit sayigs to make them conform to their
own individual language, styleor viewpoint.
FALSE ATTRIBUTION
5. Words borrowed from the fund of common lore or the Greek sriptures are
often put on the lips of Jesus.
DIFFICULT SAYINGS
6. Hard sayings are frequently softened in the process of transmission to
adapt them to the conditions of daily living.
7. Variations in difficult sayings often betray the struggle of the early
Christian community to interpret or adpat sayings to its own situation.
CHRISTIANISING JESUS
8. Sayings and parables expressed in "Christian" language are rthe creation
of the evangelists or their Christian predecessors.
9. Saying or parables that contrast with the language or viewpoint of the
gospel in which they are embedded reflect older tradition (but not
necessarily tradition that originated with Jesus).
10. The Christian community develops apologetic statements to defend its
claims and sometimes attributes such statements to Jesus.
11. Sayings and narratives that reflect knowledge of events that took place
after Jesus' death are the creation of the evangelists or rthe oral
tradition before them.
FROM THE GOSPELS TO JESUS: THE RULES OF ORAL EVIDENCE
12. Only sayings and parables that can be traced back to the oral period,
30-50 CE, can possibly have orginated with Jesus.
13. Sayings or parables that are attested to in two or more independent
sources are older than the sources in which they are embedded.
14. Sayings or parables that are attested in two different contexts probably
circuklated independently at an earlier time.
15. The same or similar content attested in two or more different forms has
had a life of its own and therefore may stem from old tradition.
16. Unwritten tradition that is captured by the written gospels relatively
late may preserve very old memories.
ORALITY & MEMORY (STORY TELLER'S LICENSE)
17. The oral memory best retains sayings and anecdotes that are short,
provocative, memorable - and oft-repeated.
18. The most frequently recorded words of Jesus in the surving gospels take
the form of aphorisms and parables.
19. The earliest layer of teh gospel tradition is made up of singl;e
aphorisms and parables that circulated by word of mouth prior to the written
gospels.
20. Jesus' disciples remembered the core or gist of his sayings and
parables, not his precise words, except in rare cases.
DISTINCTIVE DISCOURSE
21. Jesus' characteristic talk was distinctive - it can usually be
distinguished from common lore. otherwise it is futuile to search for the
authentic words of Jesus.
22. Jesus' sayings and parables cut against the social and religious grain.
23. Jesus' sayings and parables surprise and shock: they characteristically
call for a reversal of roles or frustrate ordinary, everyday expectations.
24. Jesus' sayings and prables are often characterised by exaggeration,
humour, and paradox.
25. Jesus' images are concrete nd vivid, his sayings and parables
customarily metaphorical and without explicit application.
THE LACONIC SAGE
26. Jesus does not as a rule initiate dialogue or debate, nor does he offer
to cure people.
27. Jesus rarely makes pronouncements or speaks about himself in the first
person.
28. Jesus makes no claim to be the Anointed, the messiah.
AGENDA
29. Canonical boundaries are irrelevant in critical assessments of the
various sources of information about Jesus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As a rule of thumb I use the following .........My comments in *[ ...]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6 BCE
- Jesus birth
27 - 34 CE
- Jesus' death
50 - 60 CE
- 1 Thessalonians (Paul)
- Philippians (Paul)
- Galatians (Paul)
- 1 Corinthians (Paul)
- 2 Corinthians (Paul)
- Romans (Paul)
- Philemon (Paul)
*[These documents are the BEST REPRESENTATION OF PAUL'S BELIEF but:
- The documents have been edited
- Paul never met the historic time / space Jesus of Nazareth.
- Paul gives no miraculous birth so it seems likely that early tradition did
not include a virgin birth.
- Paul says nothing about Jesus doing miracles so it seems likely that the
early church did not believe that Jesus did miracles - except healing
miracles as witnessed by Mark's gospel.
- Paul is clear to differentiate between God the Father and Jesus as lord /
boss and God's Christ. This is in keeping with Judaism that onlys the
worship of only ONE God but speculation on whom God's human Messiah might be
is left up to the individual.
- Paul places emphasis on his vision of Jesus as being equal to meeting
Jesus in time / space history. This claim is unproven.
- Paul claims to be an apostle yet he differs on major points with those who
met Jesus of Nazareth, namely Peter, James and John.]
50 - 80 CE
- Colossians (May not be Paul)
*[ Doesn't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
50 - 95 CE
- Hebrews (Not Paul)
*[ Probably written more towards the 95 CE as it has refences to Jesus as a
human sacrifice and also as God - like John's gospel. This reflects the
change in beliefs of the Gentile church at the close of the 1st century.
This book adds nothing to the knowledge of Jesus of Nazareth.]
65 - 80 CE
- Mark's gospel
- Source may be Peter
- Messianic secret
- Based on Deuteronomy / liturgy
- All actions could be done in one week
*[ The MOST RELIABLE book in the Protestant New Testament regarding the
historic time / space Jesus of Nazareth. It give the closest idea of the
real Jesus. However, it has been edited (eg the ending). This book becomes
the FOUNDATION for all the other gospels to be written. All the other
gospels add to, delete parts, or modify Mark's gospel. This is the last
Jewish book written concerning Jesus before Jerusalem is destroyed. Those
Jews reading this gospel could easily meet Jesus' apostles in Jerusalem as
they went to the Temple and ask them about Jesus. Jesus is NOT presented as
God but as an itinerant Jewish rabbi who healed people, who presented a
message of turning from sin because God's kingdom was here, right now.]
****************************************************
70 CE <DESTRUCTION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE - FALL OF JERUSALEM>
*[The importannce of this cannot be over stressed. EVERYTHING CHANGED after
this date - INCLUDING HOW JESUS WAS PERCEIVED.]
*****************************************************
*[ BEFORE this time Christianity is a Jewish sect which worships the same
ONE God as all other Jews do but which sees Jesus of Nazareth as God's human
Messiah. One could view Christianity pre-70 CE as a "denomination" of
Judaism that believed that Jesus of Nazareth was God's anointed human.
ALL of the remaining books and letters are INCREASINGLY influenced by
GENTILE thought till the finalisation in John's gospel. The church is no
longer focussed in Jerusalem. Jesus' apostles aren't there to talk to and
correct errors. Christianity separates from Judaism over the problem of
Christians eating with Gentiles which is not allowed by Jewish tradition.
The "Jesus as God" cult is born at the end of the 1st century by adopting
the ideas of the Roma Empire into its ideology. The Roman Emperor Domitian
(Titus Flavius Domitianus) reigned reigned from 81 to 96 (Note the dates and
note when both John's gospel and Revelation were written!). Christians
wished to show that Jesus was greater than Domitian who was "666" - "very
evil" - and who called himself by the titles "lord and god". In Gentile
eyes Jesus was at least equal to Domitian as "lord and god". This change in
the view of Jesus was not possible when Christianity was a Jewish sect and
part of Judaism pre-70 CE. Jews would never allow a human to be called God.
The changed happened because Christians seperated from Judaism over the
issue of eating food with Gentiles.]
70 - 100 CE
- James
*[ Doesn't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
80 -100 CE
- 2 Thessalonians (May not be Paul)
- Ephesians (May not be Paul)
*[ Doesn't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
80 -100 CE
- Matthew's gospel
- Addressed to Diaspora
- Written in Antioch
- Conservative
- 90% of the references to Hell
- Based on Moses' life / Exodus
- Portrays division between Jews and Christians
*[ This a Gentile perspective. Matthew quotes from the GREEK Septuagint.
His lack of knowledge regarding Hebrew causes a Hebrew word for "young
woman" to be translated by him in Greek as "virgin" and thus starts the
"irgin Birth" myth. He is living in the Roman Empire and DOESN'T WANT
TROUBLE WITH ROME. He goes to great length to show that Christian AREN'T
like the Jews whom the Roman Empire had so much trouble with in the past -
ending with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE. He wants to demonstrate that
Christians will be loyal to the Roman Empire, pay taxes and obey the
government, and he blames the Jews for killing the Christian's Christ.]
80 -110 CE
- 1 Peter
*[ Doesn't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
80 CE - 130 CE
- Luke's gospel, Acts (both written in Caesarea)
- Roman recognition sought
- Gentile interested in universalism
- Focuses on spirit
- Based on II Isaiah
- Jesus portrayed as greater than Elijah
*[ Luke continues the diatribe against Jews because he is also in the midst
of the Roman Empire and Paul has caused problems for both Jew and Christians
wherever he goes. Luke changes Matthew's words into more "spiritual"
sounding applications as he thinks Matthew is to "earthy". For example
Matthew's "Blessed are the poor" becomes "Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT"
for Luke - thus CHANGING THE MEANING OF THE PHRASE.]
90 - 95 CE
- Revelation of John (Not the apostle John)
- Apocalyptic genre
*[Written about The Roman Emperor DOMITIAN - "lord and god" - 666 - in hope
that God's Messiah (who is "REALLY" God) would come to destroy the Roman
Empire and as a way to encourage GENTILE Christians undergoing persecution
by him, and those who followed him. This apocalypse borrows from the Old
Testament prophets and especially the book of Daniel. It has ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING ABOUT THE TIME / SPACE JESUS OF NAZARETH. It is couched in symbolic
language that people of the day would have understood but is mostly lost to
those of our time. As with other apocalypses it ends with warnings about
not adding or subtracting to the book - IE REVELATION NOT THE BIBLE!]
90 -120 CE.
- I John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude
*[ Forgeries that don't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
90 -120 CE.
- John's Gospel
- Not the apostle
- Written in Ephesus
- Centred in Judea / Jerusalem not synoptic Gallilee
- Actions over 3-4 years instead of synoptics 1 year
- Symbolic narrative
- Focus on Wisdom and Word
- Focus on self rather than kingdom of God
- No Ascension or Pentecost
*[ The pinnacle of the change made by GENTILES on the sect of Judaism called
Christianity. The writer is an educated person who writes in good Greek and
therefore not the illiterate Jewish fisherman, John the apostle. He has
also sudied GREEK PHILOSOPHY and, in particular, the philosophy of Philo
regarding the "world mind" or "logos" which he has adapted for his own
purpose as Jewish legend states that GOD CREATED BY SAYING THE NAME OF THE
MESSIAH - in the beginning was the WORD / NAME of the human Messiah whom God
had anointed before the creation of the universe. See Louis Ginzberg's
"Legends of The Bible". VERY LITTLE in this gospel was ever stated by the
historic time / space Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus' original 12 apostles would
not have recognised the Jesus portrayed in this gospel. This is the
FUNDAMENTALIST'S FAVOURITE BOOK yet it comes towards the end of a huge
history of editing beginning with Mark's gospel.]
100 -150 CE
-1 Timothy (Not Paul)
- 2 Timothy (Not Paul)
- Titus (Not Paul)
*[ Forgeries that don't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
100 -160 CE
- 2 Peter (Not Peter)
*[ Forgery that doesn't shed any extra light on Jesus of Nazareth]
#######################################################
Barry OGrady
Where did they reside?
>The Scriptures say the original fallen angel was
>not created evil, but when iniquity was found in him, he was cast from
>heaven along with those angels who had decided to join him in sin.
Satan had to have been created with the potential for evil or he could not
have become evil.
>You want to blame everything bad on God (a very unwise decision),
Why is it unwise to acknowledge God's power and authority?
>but the Scriptures say God hates evil,
Are you suggesting God knowingly creates that of which he does not approve?
>and only creates evil in someone's life to lead them to make the choice to
>repent so they may re-enter Heaven, so God's motives are always good.
You accuse God of doing a terrible thing for his own perverse enjoyment
then you say his motives are good.
>Are your motives good in accusing God? I doubt it.
Your motives in refusing to acknowledge God's evil nature are selfish.
You suck up to God in the hope he won't unleash yet more evil on you
but in so doing you condemn others to God's continuing evil.
Perhaps if you and others were to tell God off he might change his ways.
Barry OGrady
It is easy. You can just make up whatever you like.
Its all fiction.
Linda Lee
Uhh, Heaven. Don't ask where Heaven is or what it is. The Scriptures
don't answer it, and you ask unanswerable questions of people. I
suggest you ask God.
>
> >The Scriptures say the original fallen angel was
> >not created evil, but when iniquity was found in him, he was cast from
> >heaven along with those angels who had decided to join him in sin.
>
> Satan had to have been created with the potential for evil or he could not
> have become evil.
The Scriptures say... (and if that annoys you, it's all I can say as I
have no amazing supernatural knowledge and neither does any other
person, so if you don't want to discuss what the Scriptures say, don't
ask me questions); the Scriptures say that Satan i.e. "Lucifer" was
created perfect and then iniquity was found in him. Apparently, angels
had free will, just as the spirits of all people have free will.
>
> >You want to blame everything bad on God (a very unwise decision),
>
> Why is it unwise to acknowledge God's power and authority?
You're not acknowledging; you're attempting to judge God, and since
you have no power to execute any punishment for your judgment, it is
totally ineffectual.
>
> >but the Scriptures say God hates evil,
>
> Are you suggesting God knowingly creates that of which he does not approve?
>
> >and only creates evil in someone's life to lead them to make the choice to
> >repent so they may re-enter Heaven, so God's motives are always good.
>
> You accuse God of doing a terrible thing for his own perverse enjoyment
> then you say his motives are good.
I did not say he did it for "his own perverse enjoyment"; those are
your words. I said he did it "to lead them to make the choice to
repent so they may re-enter Heaven".
You are not sincerely questioning; you're just accusing. You need to
pester someone else.
>
> >Are your motives good in accusing God? I doubt it.
>
> Your motives in refusing to acknowledge God's evil nature are selfish.
Those were both lies.
> You suck up to God in the hope he won't unleash yet more evil on you
Some people actually feel love for God, but even that is because we
realized He loved us first. 1Jn 4:19 "We love him, because he first
loved us." When I was a young child, I heard that "Jesus loves you",
and I believed it (you would likely say 'fell for it'), and so I love
Him because I perceived He is loving. You seem to have not perceived
that He loved you (but He did or does), and so you seem to hate Him.
If you want God to love you, tell Him you're sorry and you love Him
and continue that.
Having no desire for non-existence and wanting the spirit within us to
live on after physical death is inherently 'selfish', yet some hope
that all other people will also achieve that goal (although some's
apparent stubbornness probably makes that unlikely); the Scriptures
indicate that is God's wish also. But God has given us free will to
choose between life (eternal life) or death (death of the spirit);
those are His only options, and as the Creator, that is His
prerogative.
> but in so doing you condemn others to God's continuing evil.
That's delusional thinking. Wanting salvation is not condemnation of
others. Do you think if everyone thumbed their nose at God like you
are now doing, we'd all fare much better; perhaps we could join
together and overcome the Creator? LOL.
>
> Perhaps if you and others were to tell God off he might change his ways.
LOL. I guess you do think if we all judged God, He'd change and allow
all the spirits of evil people eternal life. Frankly, I've had enough
of violent harmful soul-killing people here; I don't want them to
remain with me always if they remain unchanged and malevolent. You
seem to want to inflict the blame for evil people on God and on
harmless people, neither of whom enjoy harming others. If you decide
to quit playing evil games and truly seek for God, maybe you'd find a
good result, assuming you'd like one.
Barry OGrady
God says you are wrong.
>> >The Scriptures say the original fallen angel was
>> >not created evil, but when iniquity was found in him, he was cast from
>> >heaven along with those angels who had decided to join him in sin.
>>
>> Satan had to have been created with the potential for evil or he could not
>> have become evil.
>
>The Scriptures say... (and if that annoys you, it's all I can say as I
>have no amazing supernatural knowledge and neither does any other
>person, so if you don't want to discuss what the Scriptures say, don't
>ask me questions); the Scriptures say that Satan i.e. "Lucifer" was
>created perfect and then iniquity was found in him. Apparently, angels
>had free will, just as the spirits of all people have free will.
I'm thinking in earthly terms where something needs to have the potential
for an action or thought.
>> >You want to blame everything bad on God (a very unwise decision),
>>
>> Why is it unwise to acknowledge God's power and authority?
>
>You're not acknowledging; you're attempting to judge God, and since
>you have no power to execute any punishment for your judgment, it is
>totally ineffectual.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
and for him:
>> >but the Scriptures say God hates evil,
>>
>> Are you suggesting God knowingly creates that of which he does not approve?
>>
>> >and only creates evil in someone's life to lead them to make the choice to
>> >repent so they may re-enter Heaven, so God's motives are always good.
>>
>> You accuse God of doing a terrible thing for his own perverse enjoyment
>> then you say his motives are good.
>
>I did not say he did it for "his own perverse enjoyment"; those are
>your words. I said he did it "to lead them to make the choice to
>repent so they may re-enter Heaven".
That is perverse. God could just accept everyone as he made them or
alter his design so all things are as he wants.
>You are not sincerely questioning; you're just accusing. You need to
>pester someone else.
Fair enough.
>> >Are your motives good in accusing God? I doubt it.
>>
>> Your motives in refusing to acknowledge God's evil nature are selfish.
>
>Those were both lies.
How will God ever learn while he is being praised?
>> You suck up to God in the hope he won't unleash yet more evil on you
>
>Some people actually feel love for God, but even that is because we
>realized He loved us first. 1Jn 4:19 "We love him, because he first
>loved us." When I was a young child, I heard that "Jesus loves you",
>and I believed it (you would likely say 'fell for it'), and so I love
>Him because I perceived He is loving. You seem to have not perceived
>that He loved you (but He did or does), and so you seem to hate Him.
>If you want God to love you, tell Him you're sorry and you love Him
>and continue that.
You do not know the power of God. You think it possible for the objects
of God's love to not know they are loved?
I know forgiveness is a big part of Christianity but I am not ready to
forgive God.
>Having no desire for non-existence and wanting the spirit within us to
>live on after physical death is inherently 'selfish', yet some hope
>that all other people will also achieve that goal (although some's
>apparent stubbornness probably makes that unlikely); the Scriptures
>indicate that is God's wish also.
Again you show you do not know the power of God.
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is
impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but
not with God: for with God all things are possible.
From those passages we see that God will have what he wishes.
>But God has given us free will to
>choose between life (eternal life) or death (death of the spirit);
>those are His only options, and as the Creator, that is His
>prerogative.
So we get to choose between an eternity of the same suffering
we experience now or complete nothingness.
Everything that makes "you" resides in a machine we call the brain.
When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist anymore.
>> but in so doing you condemn others to God's continuing evil.
>
>That's delusional thinking. Wanting salvation is not condemnation of
>others. Do you think if everyone thumbed their nose at God like you
>are now doing, we'd all fare much better; perhaps we could join
>together and overcome the Creator? LOL.
I understand what you are saying, but think about this;
Christians think they can most effectively use God by sucking up to
his infinite conceit, but what do you think would be God's response
if nobody even thought about him? Is it possible God would rethink
his evil ways?
>> Perhaps if you and others were to tell God off he might change his ways.
>
>LOL. I guess you do think if we all judged God, He'd change and allow
>all the spirits of evil people eternal life. Frankly, I've had enough
>of violent harmful soul-killing people here; I don't want them to
>remain with me always if they remain unchanged and malevolent.
That's my point. People can only be the way God made them so the
best thing would be for God to change his design so that there are
no violent evil people.
>You seem to want to inflict the blame for evil people on God and on
>harmless people, neither of whom enjoy harming others.
A railway worker had an accident where a steel spike went through
his head causing the loss of part of his brain. He survived but his
personality was completely changed.
Why does God inflict harm on a huge scale if he does not enjoy it?
>If you decide
>to quit playing evil games and truly seek for God, maybe you'd find a
>good result, assuming you'd like one.
Perhaps if a railway spike took out part of my brain I could ignore the
suffering that goes on, but until then I won't be able to find any good
in God.
>> Barry
guardian Snow
> >Some people actually feel love for God, but even that is because we
> >realized He loved us first. 1Jn 4:19 "We love him, because he first
> >loved us." When I was a young child, I heard that "Jesus loves you",
> >and I believed it (you would likely say 'fell for it'), and so I love
> >Him because I perceived He is loving. You seem to have not perceived
> >that He loved you (but He did or does), and so you seem to hate Him.
> >If you want God to love you, tell Him you're sorry and you love Him
> >and continue that.
>
> You do not know the power of God. You think it possible for the objects
> of God's love to not know they are loved?
>
> I know forgiveness is a big part of Christianity but I am not ready to
> forgive God.
Barry.. don't hold your breath waiting for stalker Linda Lee to teach
you forgiveness... I mean, look at how long these stupid threads go
where she refuses to demonstrate forgiveness...
All she does is go around pretending she believes in one mouth and
then accuses everybody. I wish her the best but all she does ... for
a month now.. attack.. attack... attack...
Actions speak louder then words friends... You have that right... let
your actions speak. People that are unforgiving can't teach it.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
You are responsible for your rose.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Linda Lee
> On Nov 13, 9:43 am, Barry OGrady <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >Some people actually feel love for God, but even that is because we
> > >realized He loved us first. 1Jn 4:19 "We love him, because he first
> > >loved us." When I was a young child, I heard that "Jesus loves you",
> > >and I believed it (you would likely say 'fell for it'), and so I love
> > >Him because I perceived He is loving. You seem to have not perceived
> > >that He loved you (but He did or does), and so you seem to hate Him.
> > >If you want God to love you, tell Him you're sorry and you love Him
> > >and continue that.
>
> > You do not know the power of God. You think it possible for the objects
> > of God's love to not know they are loved?
>
> > I know forgiveness is a big part of Christianity but I am not ready to
> > forgive God.
>
> Barry.. don't hold your breath waiting for stalker Linda Lee to teach
> you forgiveness... I mean, look at how long these stupid threads go
> where she refuses to demonstrate forgiveness...
>
> All she does is go around pretending she believes in one mouth and
> then accuses everybody. I wish her the best but all she does ... for
> a month now.. attack.. attack... attack...
You're a conman, Snowjob; you falsely claim you have respect for
others' opinions, yet where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion'
when you branded me a hypocrite and a whore because I chose not to use
YHWH for "God" and 'set-apart' for the word "holy" when you demanded
it?
And where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion' when you branded
me as a person who condones murder simply because I voted for
President Obama? You have no respect for others' opinions; you're
just always the liar and hypocrite; that is why you're Snowjob and
"Dark Man".
Luke 17:3 "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against
thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
You don't repent and seek forgiveness, you just keep lying and
accusing, trying to weasel your way out of things you've done.
Tom
"Linda Lee" <lyndal...@juno.com> wrote
And where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion' when you branded
me as a person who condones murder simply because I voted for
President Obama?
Uh, that would be "voted for Sen. Obama"....
And, if you voted for him, I wouldn't say it too loudly, as he does
support murdering children....
Tom
I
<snip>
Tom is a fundamentalist sociopath with a gun fetish.
Fundamentalists seem aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all
negative and destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and
enjoying the golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know
that simile: 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the
Inquisition did largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they?
Wasn't burning heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...
from "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - Robin Skinner & John Cleese (Methuen;
London:1993) p. 287
guardian Snow
> You're a conman, Snowjob; you falsely claim you have respect for
> others' opinions, yet where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion'
> when you branded me a hypocrite and a whore because I chose not to use
> YHWH for "God" and 'set-apart' for the word "holy" when you demanded
> it?
Your branding yourself...
> And where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion' when you branded
> me as a person who condones murder simply because I voted for
> President Obama?
You support abortionist... sorry.. I take a hard line but abortion is
murder in my opinion, deal with it.
> You have no respect for others' opinions; you're
> just always the liar and hypocrite; that is why you're Snowjob and
> "Dark Man".
>
> Luke 17:3 "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against
> thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
>
> You don't repent and seek forgiveness, you just keep lying and
> accusing, trying to weasel your way out of things you've done.
You know.. If what I was saying was a lie Linda.. you would just drop
it but since what I'm saying is truth and you are a murderer by
consent, your insides are bothering you.
I sleep just fine knowing I voted Independent. You know... You never
even once had the guts to say.. Abortion is MURDER but I want Obama
because he's not McCain and not an approval of the last 8 years. I
respect that...
All you care about it Obama worship.. have it. You paltry attempts at
using scriptures with me are no good Linda.. You can't just use
scriptures to attack everybody else and think they don't apply to
yourself FIRST.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with
what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote
out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy
brothers eye.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
For changes to be of any true value, they've got to be lasting and
consistent.
Tony Robbins
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
Zadok
"guardian Snow" <> wrote in message ...
> And where was your alleged 'respect for my opinion' when you branded
> me as a person who condones murder simply because I voted for
> President Obama?
>You support abortionist... sorry.. I take a hard line but abortion is
>murder in my opinion, deal with it.
Your opinion means fuck all to noone, other than other idiots like yourself.
The fact remains, that abortion is not illegal in the good old U.S. of A.
The fact remains, that abortion is not illegal in the country you live in,
Australia.
The joke is that you come on here, ranting, and no one gives a fuck for your
rant.
And some day you will meet your end, and when you do,
Abortion will still be legal in the U.S. and abortion will still be legal in
Australia.
And everyone will say, what the fuck did that idiot go on about!!
Smile.
guardian Snow
/ \
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On Nov 13, 1:23 pm, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
> The joke is that you come on here, ranting, and no one gives a fuck for your
> rant.
Even if nobody listens... even if it's legal to men, doesn't change
the fact that murder of the unborn is a sin. IT’S YOUR CHOICE... The
idea that somebody would murder a child in the womb at 8 months old is
just abominable and yet, it's legal by men’s standards.. Your right...
and many people are for it... I'm not and I tell people they will be
judged by YAHWEH based on the choice they make in this life...
Deu 30:19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today
against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and
the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you
and your seed,
I CHOOSE LIFE. You make your choice.
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
It takes but one positive thought when given a chance to survive and
thrive to overpower an entire army of negative thoughts.
Robert H. Schuller
_.--.
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`~` .=`~'~) ( _/ / / \
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gs / \
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'._ _.'
'----'
Mordecai
guardian Snow wrote:
clipped
>
> You support abortionist... sorry.. I take a hard line but abortion is
> murder in my opinion, deal with it.
I personally, and Judaism collectively - do not agree with you on this.
I suggest you type in the words "Abortion" and "Judaism" into your favourite
search engine and go for it.
You might notice a lot of agreement in morality and possibly some
disagreement - but the issue you make which cannot be supported is that
abortion is murder.
Note - the issue is not the morality of abortion - but the dogmatism of your
assumptions and judgement on the matter.
I can utterly disagree with your assumptions and agree with most other
things.
You have made it clear that the only way I can "deal" with your ... opinion
... is to accept you, your opinion and your judgement.
Or to utterly and completely ignore you.
Because you have forbidden any discussion on ... your opinion.
OK - you have an opinion. I disagree.
You curse me before G_d because I hold a different moral system to yours -
even though we end up doing the same things in most of the same situations.
Sigh ... I keep telling people that there has been a change in the values of
the generations and people of the old generation end up becoming labelled
"silly old farts."
Just like we did to our father's generation.
So think carefully of your uncles and other authority figures of the past -
and see how many you have labelled in your mind "silly old farts" and those
you still listen to.
The ones you still listen to are the ones who are not dogmatic in their
assumptions.
If you wish to be relevant - sure have an opinion on something - but leave
dogmatism behind.
Accept the fact other people might be moral, ethical, caring and hold to a
different moral standard.
This other moral standard might agree with you, disagree with you or be
neutral to your ideas.
And finally - your own moral system might, just might, be deficient - and
the next generation has looked at things your generation missed.
Judaism has the collective wisdom of thousands of years of thought - and how
to think.
So it is not so easily dismissed or changed.
And to date - they have listened to both anti abortionists - and the pro
life opinions and neither has gained traction in our thoughts on this
matter.
We could change ... but to date - neither of your new found ideas has caused
us even a hiccup in our moral standard.
So when you say " I take a hard line but abortion is murder in my opinion,
deal with it."
I reply Judaism disagrees with your hard line opinion - deal with it.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
guardian Snow
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
> So when you say " I take a hard line but abortion is murder in my opinion,
> deal with it."
> I reply Judaism disagrees with your hard line opinion - deal with it.
And so I do not follow Judaism. If it means I have no religion, I'm
very comfortable with this. I find my religion in scriptures as you
do Mordecai. It tells me.. choose life.
Deu 30:19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today
against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and
the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you
and your seed,
for both me and my seed to live. I reject Judaism and Christianity
and any other religion that is not written in scriptures and if that
means I'm alone, so be it... I will take the best from all faiths and
follow scriptures and reject anything thing and everything that isn't
written in the scriptures.
Any idea that doesn't recognize the sovereign will of the creator and
his word as it's written, I continue to reject and I'm not worried
about being labeled.
Rev 18:5 “Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and
Elohim has remembered her unrighteousnesses.
Elohim still remembers our unrighteousness unless we repent and seek
him.. I see many scriptures that speak to me and my spirit says ...
abortion is murder of the unborn. The unborn child being formed in
the womb by our Creator in HIS IMAGE.
According to many Rabbi's... they say YAHWEH did abortions so.. it
can't be a sin... Scriptures clearly are that the will of Elohim is
sovereign and what he may do... I can't.
Because judgment belongs to the sovereign and not the servants or
sons.
Rabbi's many times place themselves arrogantly on his level and strive
with his words instead of submitting.. but thats just my opinion.
I also find that many of them follow faulty oral traditions that the
Messiah told us not to follow.
.=@=.
/ \
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*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
For changes to be of any true value, they've got to be lasting and
consistent.
Tony Robbins
http://www.e-sword.net/ <-- best free bible program