E_Space: Consideration For A Permanent Ban

[Trance Gemini]

OWNERS: I'll be adding posts with examples of my allegations below through out the day. Thx for your patience.

E_Space: You still have the opportunity to back off from engaging in this abusive behavior and participating productively in the group. It's your choice. 

My participation in AvC in recent months has been limited to coming here twice a day and performing my Moderation duties. 

As a result I haven't really looked in or followed very many threads. Once a month or so I've jumped in and commented on a couple.

Each and every time I do participate, I've been observing what appears to be worsening vitriol and abuse from E_Space against various posters on both sides of the fence that is wholly unwarranted and I have yet to see it occur in the context of an actual argument. 

Now, it's possible that it just seems worse because I'm not around enough to get used to it.

You might find perhaps a small handful of posts (no more) over a period of several months where he might actually engage someone for a short period of time and that love affair only lasts until that someone says something E_space disagrees with or the comment triggers some paranoid delusion that E_Space has.

There is no doubt that AvC offers a great deal of freedom in the debating realm. This is intentional and something that we take a great deal of pride in. 

However, the majority of posters actually do contribute arguments. Whether one considers them bad or good isn't the point, they are arguments, and they are engaging with the intent to debate. In the context of making those arguments things can and do get heated with plenty of vitriol on both sides. 

So, the problem isn't the vitriol per se. The problem is that E_Space's abusive behavior which explicitly targets newbies and doesn't constitute debate (even in the very loosely defined form that we follow on AvC) is increasingly destructive to this group, IMO.

It creates a hostile and unpleasant environment which goes outside the normal bounds that we accept when we are engaging in heated debates with each other.

Our ban rules are simple and basic. No spam (including drive-bys), no illegal activity or advocating illegal acts, no porn simply because we want to keep the group open and will have to restrict it if we allow porn. Occasionally and rarely we ban people who cross the line with abusive and vitriolic behavior like Liam who constantly threatened (and made good on some of his threats) people IRL.

Now most of the senior members here are aware of E_Space and the intelligent ones don't believe anything he says and don't get conned by his machinations of playing people against each other. We know he's a pathological liar and we know he literally does nothing but abuse people.

Which is why he's targeting newbies.

As most know, I have, in the past, defended E_Space's right to be here. However, given the destructive nature of his behavior I've been forced to reassess that position.

Your Feedback will be much appreciated and of course, no banning will occur without the support of AvC members and agreement of the Owners.

This thread is where you can make your support (or objection to the permanent ban) known. Please do so.

Please make sure you respond on the Moderator Forum and not on the AvC Announcement which I'm posting. You won't be able to reply to the AvC announcement from the web site but those that receive posts in their email will be able to.

We don't wish to disrupt our main site discussing these types of issues there so please ensure that if you are replying by email you are replying to the Moderator Forum email address.

Thank,

Trance Gemini

AvC Moderator.

--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
Chairperson

Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
Evil Anagrams DivisionS

[Rupert]

Trance, I'm a bit reluctant to stick my neck out one way or the other, but I have to say that I haven't really noticed what you're talking about. I've noticed him needling Kurt Goedel a bit, but nothing that I think would warrant too much concern. But I suppose you will be giving us examples.

[Bob T.]

I vote for no ban on e-space.  Frankly, I'd be closer to banning the person who constantly calls him a "Tard".

 

- Bob T

[Trance Gemini]

Well that tends to happen when people like you take debates personally and can't agree to disagree.

This is why we make it so difficult to ban people.

If we didn't, some would get their nose out of joint and then use silly things like someone a Tard (when his behavior demonstrates that) to ban them.

That would put us on PZs level. Agree with PZ or you're evil. Not somewhere I want this group to go. 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

I think what happens with Tards like E_Space is that people get used to the noise and abuse and they don't notice when he crosses the line.

Suggest you go through any 10 threads that both Kurt and E_Space participate in and read only their interactions, no-one else's. Just pick any thread.

Then put yourself in Kurt's shoes (forget about whether you agree with Kurt - I don't and I'm sure you won't).

The question here is, how would anyone react to this constant abuse on any thread at any time no matter what one says for days on end.

I think if you do that you'll see what I'm talking about.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Trance, I'm a bit reluctant to stick my neck out one way or the other, but I have to say that I haven't really noticed what you're talking about. I've noticed him needling Kurt Goedel a bit, but nothing that I think would warrant too much concern. But I suppose you will be giving us examples.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Rupert]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 2:44:03 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

I think what happens with Tards like E_Space is that people get used to the noise and abuse and they don't notice when he crosses the line.

Suggest you go through any 10 threads that both Kurt and E_Space participate in and read only their interactions, no-one else's. Just pick any thread.

Then put yourself in Kurt's shoes (forget about whether you agree with Kurt - I don't and I'm sure you won't).

The question here is, how would anyone react to this constant abuse on any thread at any time no matter what one says for days on end.

I think if you do that you'll see what I'm talking about.

The issue might be complicated a bit because I might say "Does Kurt have more reason to be annoyed with e_space than I have to be annoyed with Kurt?" I personally find Kurt's nonsense about segmented posts to be a bit annoying. Perhaps you might think that Kurt does have more reason to be annoyed, or perhaps you might think that that is not relevant. It might be hard for me to have an objective take on it and I'd prefer to just let Kurt speak for himself, which I suppose he may do.

Have you actually received any complaints about e_space? I suppose if some people speak out in favour of your proposed ban then we can get a feel for what the general feeling is.

With Kurt, for example, I think he's annoying and stupid and a non-serious debater but I still don't think he should be banned just because I have this opinion. And I'd want other people to be treated in the same way. But apart from that it's not a big deal to me either way, so maybe having thrown in my two cents I'll just leave it at that and let others say what they think.

[LL]

I haven't found e-space to be abusive. I don't follow many threads any more but my interactions with him have been ok. As Rupert suggested, maybe you can show some examples of the abuse.

LL

--

[e_space]

you posted a thread entitled "E_Space: Consideration For A Permanent Ban" in Atheism vs Christianity and told me to take it up here, but since you didn't create a thread for responding to that here, i have ... i found it down the list

you have not provided any evidence of my "abuse" and i am CERTAINLY not as abusive as you are ... for example, i don't call people retarded ... i stand up to people who are abusive, such as yourself and "Kurt Godel", the new person in the group that you feel i am "abusing" ... in other words, you are protecting someone that NOBODY in the group can stand ... do you even come close to comprehending that? 

how can someone who comes in once a month (yet is considered a group moderator), who doesn't even have the consideration to determine who i am "abusing" and why, by going through the history of the previous posts that you were absent from, make a judgement on my "behavior" ... and why is it, in your determined opinion, worse to stand up to these actual abusers, than it is for the original abuser to get admonished? as i pointed out in AvsC, not one person in the group enjoys corresponding with kurt, yet you come in out of the blue and lay it all on me ... did you even read the examples of the posts that i pointed out to you? have you read other responses to him where people are calling him a "moron"? if so, why haven't you taken their "behavior" up with them as well? ... i'll tell you why ... because your obsessed with my "behavior" and nobody else's, except maybe poor lexie (see further comments below about your abuse of her)

you claim that i don't engage in threads, but that is not true ... i do engage, but i also stand up to abusers, which is why you have a major problem with me, as i have stood up to your abuse for years ... don't think so? why is is that since you came back several days ago virtually every one of your posts is to, or about, me? 

Q: are you posting debatable commentary regarding the nature of any of the threads? 

A: no you aren't

Q: is your main reason to come back to the group to jump all over me?

A: not sure, but it seems quite obvious that is your main intent, since that is all you have done since returning, except to pick on lexie, who IS a female, despite you calling her a male and a 'tard' (either an intended lie or a misconception that you are perpetrating through ignorance) ... she is a young girl who is embroiled in some emotional upheaval, and through frustration she sometimes blows up at people, such as your boy kurt ... what do you do without checking the thread? start accusing her of being someone else (some male i think you call 'liam', refer to her as a "tard" (your favorite word in the dictionary), and threaten to kick her out ... she has asked some provocative questions that are drawing responses from others, on both sides of the aisle, but because you, who have not checked out the history of her posts, don't like one or two of her comments, launch a pathetically abusive attack on her, virtually driving her away from the site ... and you say i drive people away? 

Q: are you abusive?

A: do you regard calling someone retarded over and over again not to be abusive? in my opinion, you are far more abusive than i am ... i am giving a bit of medicine to someone who gets a huge thrill out of attempting to debase others, something that you are very well versed at ... why don't you spend some of your energy fixing your own behavior before trying to monitor mine, or anyone elses? the very fact that you are a monitor in AvsC is a query ... how can anyone as biased and abusive as you are be a moderator of the behavior of others??? it is WAY beyond any reason that i can comprehend ... 

[Trance Gemini]

It may be true that he's 'annoying, stupid and non-serious' I simply haven't spent enough time here to know. However he does give an argument and he does debate it irrespective of whether it's annoying, stupid and non-serious.

E_Space doesn't. He just abuses. Nothing more. There are no arguments made by E_Space.

Now that used to bother people when he claimed he was a theist and later 'spiritual'.

The same behavior seems acceptable now that he's claiming (falsely) that he's an atheist.

Anyone who holds a god belief (no matter how bizarre and his is rather bizarre) is a theist.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

the fact that you don't find it horrendous to refer to someone by a horrible human affliction, is all the indication any reasonable person needs to determine that you are not worthy of the position as a moderator ... in fact, as bob says, you should be the one being banned ... 

as rupert notes, i needle kurt a bit ... so what, he calls virtually all atheists filthy liars, and states that none of them have any interest in helping the poor, etc, etc, etc ... i reject those arrogantly phrased opinions, and tell him in less than succinct words that he is full of it ... i am not even an atheist, yet i am rejecting his determinations and acting on the side of atheists, most of whom are great people ... atheists should be abjectly ashamed to have you as an associate ... you give atheism a bad name ... thankfully you are not representative of atheists, just like TC is not a good representative for christianity ... 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 10:34:54 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

It may be true that he's 'annoying, stupid and non-serious' I simply haven't spent enough time here to know. However he does give an argument and he does debate it irrespective of whether it's annoying, stupid and non-serious.

E_Space doesn't. He just abuses. Nothing more. There are no arguments made by E_Space.

that is an outright lie, or just a misguided opinion based on copious amounts of ignorance ... if you don't check the history of the threads, how would you know? ... your obsession against me blinds you to the truth ... moderators are supposed to spend time in threads to actually review what is going on ... Q: do you do that? A: absolutely not ... do your job, or quit ... preferably the latter since you are not very astute at the first ... 

 

Now that used to bother people when he claimed he was a theist and later 'spiritual'.

The same behavior seems acceptable now that he's claiming (falsely) that he's an atheist.

Anyone who holds a god belief (no matter how bizarre and his is rather bizarre) is a theist.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 17, 2014 2:44:03 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

I think what happens with Tards like E_Space is that people get used to the noise and abuse and they don't notice when he crosses the line.

Suggest you go through any 10 threads that both Kurt and E_Space participate in and read only their interactions, no-one else's. Just pick any thread.

Then put yourself in Kurt's shoes (forget about whether you agree with Kurt - I don't and I'm sure you won't).

The question here is, how would anyone react to this constant abuse on any thread at any time no matter what one says for days on end.

I think if you do that you'll see what I'm talking about.

The issue might be complicated a bit because I might say "Does Kurt have more reason to be annoyed with e_space than I have to be annoyed with Kurt?" I personally find Kurt's nonsense about segmented posts to be a bit annoying. Perhaps you might think that Kurt does have more reason to be annoyed, or perhaps you might think that that is not relevant. It might be hard for me to have an objective take on it and I'd prefer to just let Kurt speak for himself, which I suppose he may do.

Have you actually received any complaints about e_space? I suppose if some people speak out in favour of your proposed ban then we can get a feel for what the general feeling is.

With Kurt, for example, I think he's annoying and stupid and a non-serious debater but I still don't think he should be banned just because I have this opinion. And I'd want other people to be treated in the same way. But apart from that it's not a big deal to me either way, so maybe having thrown in my two cents I'll just leave it at that and let others say what they think.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

Actually, like I said to Rupert, literally all you have to do is read any thread with both E_Space and Kurt interacting and ignore the rest of it.

They're all the same so there's reams of evidence on the site for anyone that actually wants to see it.

In fact, E_Space used to be like this with the atheists at which time everyone (including you and Bob if I recall correctly) wanted him banned.

Now, that's he's pretending to have 'switched' and focuses his abuse on his theists, it seems that atheists, hypocritically, no longer care.

That doesn't actually surprise me since most of the really bright atheists have left this group. The few left, rarely post here anymore, just occasionally.

I will, of course, defer to whatever is decided by the members and the owners but will stop intervening on anyone's behalf that e_space chooses to target.

You will all be on your own and can live with the consequences of your decision.

Just because he's sucking up to certain people at the moment doesn't mean that won't change.

His history on AvC has demonstrated that he's quick to stab people in the back who have defended him.

[LL]

I would not ban him.

LL

[Rupert]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 3:34:54 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

It may be true that he's 'annoying, stupid and non-serious' I simply haven't spent enough time here to know. However he does give an argument and he does debate it irrespective of whether it's annoying, stupid and non-serious.

With regard to Kurt.

I am happy to give him credit that he thinks he's engaging in serious debate, even if I personally may often think to myself that I can't recognise it as serious debate. And of course this opinion of mine may not be universally shared, and in any case it's not a bannable offence.

I do think he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I may on occasion find him annoying but I wouldn't want to blow it out of proportion. When he thinks that he is in a position to tell a professional mathematician that he can't do elementary algebra and doesn't understand Gödel's theorem, I find that rather funny. I may find other things he does a bit annoying but it's all water off a duck's back. I would suggest to you that Kurt may very well feel the same way about e_space, that it's all water off a duck's back and no big deal.

I would be open to being shown that I was wrong about this if a large number of people came forward and said that they found e_space's behaviour to be a serious problem, but I can't say I've ever noticed it myself.

[Trance Gemini]

Another thing to keep in mind is that E_Space has been banned from every single group that he has joined since he started shitting on AvC. The grounds for the banning have always been the same. His abusive behavior.

Mind's Eye and Civil Religious Debate were the two main ones but there others as well.

[e_space]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 10:44:32 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Actually, like I said to Rupert, literally all you have to do is read any thread with both E_Space and Kurt interacting and ignore the rest of it.

They're all the same so there's reams of evidence on the site for anyone that actually wants to see it.

In fact, E_Space used to be like this with the atheists at which time everyone (including you and Bob if I recall correctly) wanted him banned.

Now, that's he's pretending to have 'switched' and focuses his abuse on his theists, it seems that atheists, hypocritically, no longer care.

bullshit ... i don't fake anything ... why do you continue to lie or pretend to know what you are talking about? i react to abuse, and it doesn't matter which side of the aisle it comes from ... Q: have you not seen any of my comments in response to smoley or yarrido? A: apparently not, or you might have noticed that your conclusion is misguided and highly inaccurate ... as usual

and now you are saying atheists don't care if i say anything that they don't agree with? doh! man, you're lost ... you have NO clue how to be a moderator ... none

 

That doesn't actually surprise me since most of the really bright atheists have left this group. The few left, rarely post here anymore, just occasionally.

more bullshit ... rupert, bob, steve, ego, lawrey and others seem quite bright to me ... in fact, the only atheist that doesn't seem too bright is you ... 

 

I will, of course, defer to whatever is decided by the members and the owners but will stop intervening on anyone's behalf that e_space chooses to target.

You will all be on your own and can live with the consequences of your decision.

Just because he's sucking up to certain people at the moment doesn't mean that won't change.

you are lucky you can't be charged with libel ... you just say whatever comes to your wee mind, no matter how much truth it contains ... yet you are a moderator??? beats the shit out of me i must tell ya ... 

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

It bears repeating that the only reason (IMO) that atheists are currently not seeing E_Space's behavior as a problem is because he isn't targeting atheists right now.

He used to and we have threads in this forum started by atheists who wanted him banned for his abuse.

Feel free to check.

[e_space]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 9:39:27 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Well that tends to happen when people like you take debates personally and can't agree to disagree.

let me get this straight ... you think bob takes debates personally, and you don't??? i have found bob to be quite reserved, although good at throwing some light fun at someone who is not making much sense ... you on the other hand are HIGHLY affected by the comments of others ... if you don't think so, what the fuck is this thread all about? 

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 10:55:12 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Another thing to keep in mind is that E_Space has been banned from every single group

another lie ... keep em coming

 

that he has joined since he started shitting on AvC. The grounds for the banning have always been the same. His abusive behavior.

Mind's Eye and Civil Religious Debate were the two main ones but there others as well.

yep, i stood up to an abusive moderator, and was tossed from minds eye for that reason ... you know, similar to what you are trying to accomplish here? moderators should not be abusive, and the fact that you are both is quite astounding imo ... 

[e_space]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 11:00:24 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

It bears repeating that the only reason (IMO) that atheists are currently not seeing E_Space's behavior as a problem is because he isn't targeting atheists right now.

i often target abuse ... doesn't matter which side of the aisle ... right now, i am targeting your abuse, and your an atheist, aren't you? please try to think before you hit the post button for a change will you?

[Trance Gemini]

E_Space and the lie he constantly flogs that he's just 'bullying the bullies'.

Sorry but this has been exposed so many times on AvC it isn't even funny. And anyone actually reading a thread and watching his interactions can see that he's the one initiating the abuse each and every time.

It's patently obvious that he's just an abusive bully who gets his jollies out of making himself feel superior.

This lie that he's just 'bullying bullies' is his cover to be an abusive bully and get away with it.

No doubt that works for him IRL because people can't always prove who started something.

It doesn't work online because Tards like him are too stupid to realize that people can look up their history and we can find out who instigated the abuse. In his case, it's him each and every time. There's no question about it.

That's why he reincarnated here as an atheist this time. 

He figured (rightly so it seems) that he could get away with parading around and acting like a big shot, abusing people, as long as he pretended to be an atheist.

Well. he's not atheist.

1. He has his own crackpot version of a god belief which he tweaks to make it sound more palatable despite the fact that it's quite insane.

2. He has done nothing but engage in abusive bullying since he joined this site.

3. Every single group he's joined including a TARD group which consisted mostly of a crazy persons sock puppets banned him (XNun if you recall).

He is discrediting atheists and I object to it even if other atheists here are too morally bankrupt to give a fuck.

And you are going to be forced to deal with me whether you like or not and it'll be interesting to see whether there's a single atheist on this site that will defend your bullshit, lies, abusive bullying and constant harassment.

And apparently there are. Not only are there but I'm not even surprised to see which one's they are.

Since I haven't been around other than to check in and do Moderator stuff, E_space (will try to) but can't blame me for anything he's been doing which is what he tends to do.

His out is to try to turn it around and target me.

I have no intention of letting that happen.

This isn't about me.

It's about E_Space and his regular, daily, ongoing abuse and harassment of posters on AvC.

Behavior for which he's been banned numerous times on other groups even when he tried to sneak back on those groups using other aliases.

[Rupert]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 4:00:24 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

It bears repeating that the only reason (IMO) that atheists are currently not seeing E_Space's behavior as a problem is because he isn't targeting atheists right now.

He used to and we have threads in this forum started by atheists who wanted him banned for his abuse.

Feel free to check.

All right. Well, you've given some of your reasons and I've thrown in my two cents. What's the procedure? Do the moderators take a vote on it or something?

Is there an agreed procedure for such things? There probably should be one. And you should clarify, does it only have to be a majority of moderators, or does it have to be unanimous, that kind of thing.

[Trance Gemini]

The Owners have been cc'd on this.

They make the final decision.

They review everyone's opinions and will decide.

Mostly they go with the majority.

On occasion (and I think it only happened once), if the majority is obviously wrong, they have on occasion done what they thought was right and provided an explanation.

The Moderators can only ban under certain limited conditions (spammers, illegal posts, porn). 

The rest has to be done by the Owners and is rarely done.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

This thread will probably run for a few days to give people a chance to respond.

[e_space]

first, you have yet to give an example of my "abuse"

On Monday, March 17, 2014 11:14:57 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

E_Space and the lie he constantly flogs that he's just 'bullying the bullies'.

first of all, you have yet to give an example of my "abuse", despite being asked for such from two other people besides me ... we are waiting for you to do your job ... are you going to let us down, yet again?

 

Sorry but this has been exposed so many times on AvC it isn't even funny. And anyone actually reading a thread and watching his interactions can see that he's the one initiating the abuse each and every time.

like? yawnzzzzzzz

 

It's patently obvious that he's just an abusive bully who gets his jollies out of making himself feel superior.

yes, i constantly call people names, like "tard" and other highly abusive adjectives ... shame on me!!! ah well, at least i'm not a moderator who constantly throws its weight around ... like someone you know VERY well ... 

 

This lie that he's just 'bullying bullies' is his cover to be an abusive bully and get away with it.

like? yawnzzzzzzzzz (number 2)

 

No doubt that works for him IRL because people can't always prove who started something.

It doesn't work online because Tards like him are too stupid to realize that people can look up their history and we can find out who instigated the abuse. In his case, it's him each and every time. There's no question about it.

That's why he reincarnated here as an atheist this time. 

i have stated many times, and within this thread, that i am not an atheist, and i am not ... i react to comments that i disagree with, unlike you, who reacts to people who don't fall down on their knees in front of you ... Q: why do you constantly lie? A: because the truth would expose your obsessive agenda ...

 

He figured (rightly so it seems) that he could get away with parading around and acting like a big shot, abusing people, as long as he pretended to be an atheist.

big shot? me? how, do i ever exalt myself? is it me who calls self "fascinating"? ... ummm, no, that would be kurt ... sorry, you've got the wrong person ... 

 

Well. he's not atheist.

1. He has his own crackpot version of a god belief which he tweaks to make it sound more palatable despite the fact that it's quite insane.

so now i'm an insane lying crackpot??? and you call me abusive? hahaha

 

2. He has done nothing but engage in abusive bullying since he joined this site.

again, an outright lie ... but that's something i've come to expect ... 

 

3. Every single group he's joined including a TARD group which consisted mostly of a crazy persons sock puppets banned him (XNun if you recall).

wow, you have REALLY lost it trolly ... yet you think its all about me ... Q: how do you spell "obsessive"? A: here's a hint ... T R A ... keep going and it ain't tra la la   ;-^)

 

He is discrediting atheists and I object to it even if other atheists here are too morally bankrupt to give a fuck.

how? more hollow accusations aren't really building your case ... 

 

And you are going to be forced to deal with me whether you like or not and it'll be interesting to see whether there's a single atheist on this site that will defend your bullshit, lies, abusive bullying and constant harassment.

have you not read any of the comments ... at least 3 atheists have suggested that i don't get kicked out ... in fact, one has suggested that you are ... Q: do you comprehend english? A: apparently, not so much ... 

 

And apparently there are. Not only are there but I'm not even surprised to see which one's they are.

Since I haven't been around other than to check in and do Moderator stuff, E_space (will try to) but can't blame me for anything he's been doing which is what he tends to do.

nobody is blaming me for anything, or complaining about me, except you ... does that help? 

 

His out is to try to turn it around and target me.

like how, trying to get you banned? posting lies about you? calling you a "tard" ... lol 

 

I have no intention of letting that happen.

This isn't about me.

It's about E_Space and his regular, daily, ongoing abuse and harassment of posters on AvC.

actually, its about your obsessive anti e_space obsession ... nobody brought my name into the conversation, until you did ... after which, i have been given support, while your quest is being rejected ... haven't noticed any of that eh? lol 

 

Behavior for which he's been banned numerous times on other groups even when he tried to sneak back on those groups using other aliases.

yawnzzzzzzzzzz ... repeat yourself much? if you are going to do so, at least get your facts straight ... 

[e_space]

some already have, not that you have taken any notice

On Monday, March 17, 2014 11:24:38 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

This thread will probably run for a few days to give people a chance to respond.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Owners have been cc'd on this.

They make the final decision.

They review everyone's opinions and will decide.

Mostly they go with the majority.

On occasion (and I think it only happened once), if the majority is obviously wrong, they have on occasion done what they thought was right and provided an explanation.

The Moderators can only ban under certain limited conditions (spammers, illegal posts, porn). 

The rest has to be done by the Owners and is rarely done.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 17, 2014 4:00:24 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

It bears repeating that the only reason (IMO) that atheists are currently not seeing E_Space's behavior as a problem is because he isn't targeting atheists right now.

He used to and we have threads in this forum started by atheists who wanted him banned for his abuse.

Feel free to check.

All right. Well, you've given some of your reasons and I've thrown in my two cents. What's the procedure? Do the moderators take a vote on it or something?

Is there an agreed procedure for such things? There probably should be one. And you should clarify, does it only have to be a majority of moderators, or does it have to be unanimous, that kind of thing.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
Chairperson

Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
Evil Anagrams Division

[Trance Gemini]

We have lots of vitriol on AvC. We're a free speech site and that's normal for us.

Here's the difference between what E_Space does and what debaters (even poor debaters) do.

Kurt starts a thread and presents an argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/9x3K-JBaqagJ

Yes Rupert the argument might be completely idiotic. IDK I haven't read it. That isn't the point. It's an argument.

E_Space's response to the argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/jBfz-CRKZFUJ

That's abuse. E_Space makes NO effort to engage anyone, ever in debate.

NOW we will see him start because he's going to realize that he has to put on a show that he is doing it despite the fact that he KNOWS he isn't.

So, I expect we'll see a change now. That's his deceitful pattern of behavior.

However, ALL the examples I will be showing over the next couple of days will be from BEFORE I brought this issue up.

[Trance Gemini]

Now note that E_space's abuse was in the second post and there was nothing in Kurt's post that could remotely be described as bullying anyone never mind E_space. He's simply make a case related to the Golden Rule and throwing it out there for discussion for anyone interested.

If E_Space wasn't interested he could have just moved on to another thread.

Instead he started by insulting and abusing Kurt and then continues his abuse throughout the entire thread.

[Rupert]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 4:36:57 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

We have lots of vitriol on AvC. We're a free speech site and that's normal for us.

Here's the difference between what E_Space does and what debaters (even poor debaters) do.

Kurt starts a thread and presents an argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/9x3K-JBaqagJ

Yes Rupert the argument might be completely idiotic. IDK I haven't read it. That isn't the point. It's an argument.

E_Space's response to the argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/jBfz-CRKZFUJ

That's abuse. E_Space makes NO effort to engage anyone, ever in debate.

NOW we will see him start because he's going to realize that he has to put on a show that he is doing it despite the fact that he KNOWS he isn't.

So, I expect we'll see a change now. That's his deceitful pattern of behavior.

However, ALL the examples I will be showing over the next couple of days will be from BEFORE I brought this issue up.

All right. Well, I understand your argument, I feel like it's hard for me to comment because I haven't read all of e_space's posts, and I'm hoping Kurt will show up and let us know what he thinks about it.

I guess the Owners will make some kind of decision in a few days.

[e_space]

try going through the history of the postings, like you said you were going to ... doh! 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

[Bob T.]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 6:39:27 AM UTC-7, Trance Gemini wrote:

Well that tends to happen when people like you take debates personally and can't agree to disagree.

This is why we make it so difficult to ban people.

If we didn't, some would get their nose out of joint and then use silly things like someone a Tard (when his behavior demonstrates that) to ban them.

That would put us on PZs level. Agree with PZ or you're evil. Not somewhere I want this group to go. 

 

Wow... you're obsessed with PZ Myers, aren't you?  What other explanation could there be for his sudden appearance in this discussion?

 

- Bob T

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:

I vote for no ban on e-space.  Frankly, I'd be closer to banning the person who constantly calls him a "Tard".

 

- Bob T

 

On Monday, March 17, 2014 5:51:52 AM UTC-7, Trance Gemini wrote:

OWNERS: I'll be adding posts with examples of my allegations below through out the day. Thx for your patience.

E_Space: You still have the opportunity to back off from engaging in this abusive behavior and participating productively in the group. It's your choice. 

My participation in AvC in recent months has been limited to coming here twice a day and performing my Moderation duties. 

As a result I haven't really looked in or followed very many threads. Once a month or so I've jumped in and commented on a couple.

Each and every time I do participate, I've been observing what appears to be worsening vitriol and abuse from E_Space against various posters on both sides of the fence that is wholly unwarranted and I have yet to see it occur in the context of an actual argument. 

Now, it's possible that it just seems worse because I'm not around enough to get used to it.

You might find perhaps a small handful of posts (no more) over a period of several months where he might actually engage someone for a short period of time and that love affair only lasts until that someone says something E_space disagrees with or the comment triggers some paranoid delusion that E_Space has.

There is no doubt that AvC offers a great deal of freedom in the debating realm. This is intentional and something that we take a great deal of pride in. 

However, the majority of posters actually do contribute arguments. Whether one considers them bad or good isn't the point, they are arguments, and they are engaging with the intent to debate. In the context of making those arguments things can and do get heated with plenty of vitriol on both sides. 

So, the problem isn't the vitriol per se. The problem is that E_Space's abusive behavior which explicitly targets newbies and doesn't constitute debate (even in the very loosely defined form that we follow on AvC) is increasingly destructive to this group, IMO.

It creates a hostile and unpleasant environment which goes outside the normal bounds that we accept when we are engaging in heated debates with each other.

Our ban rules are simple and basic. No spam (including drive-bys), no illegal activity or advocating illegal acts, no porn simply because we want to keep the group open and will have to restrict it if we allow porn. Occasionally and rarely we ban people who cross the line with abusive and vitriolic behavior like Liam who constantly threatened (and made good on some of his threats) people IRL.

Now most of the senior members here are aware of E_Space and the intelligent ones don't believe anything he says and don't get conned by his machinations of playing people against each other. We know he's a pathological liar and we know he literally does nothing but abuse people.

Which is why he's targeting newbies.

As most know, I have, in the past, defended E_Space's right to be here. However, given the destructive nature of his behavior I've been forced to reassess that position.

Your Feedback will be much appreciated and of course, no banning will occur without the support of AvC members and agreement of the Owners.

This thread is where you can make your support (or objection to the permanent ban) known. Please do so.

Please make sure you respond on the Moderator Forum and not on the AvC Announcement which I'm posting. You won't be able to reply to the AvC announcement from the web site but those that receive posts in their email will be able to.

We don't wish to disrupt our main site discussing these types of issues there so please ensure that if you are replying by email you are replying to the Moderator Forum email address.

Thank,

Trance Gemini

AvC Moderator.

--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
Chairperson

Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.

Evil Anagrams DivisionS

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

Well what he did was pretty obvious in those two links and he's done that numerous times. All anyone has to do is click on the first post if it was written by Kurt or E_Space and then look at the others first comment.

When E_Space responds to Kurt they are ALL like that.

Just close your eyes and pick a thread. Even one that Kurt isn't in and you'll see E_Space abusing everyone.

No arguments. No attempts to make even a stupid case. Just abuse.

Here's a thread from 2009. This was when E_Space, XNun, Liam and others were colluding.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum/JpdIqIZwEx4/sPe7iGnsEv8J

We are very careful to protect Free Speech on this group so that discussion was in depth. 

E_Space couldn't even stop his abuse and interact by giving an argument, any argument, even a stupid argument in that entire discussion.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

i just posted to kurt for you viewing pleasure ... it is not remotely close to the first time i've made such comments, even since your boy has been here ... you just can't seem to find any examples ... 

as it relates to direct comments to kurt, you might be almost correct for a change ... it is not my intention to carry on a "civil" conversation with someone who refers to a whole block of people (of which you are associated with, and i am not) as filthy liars ... slimy denizens who crawl out from beneath their rocks to release their toxic fumes up the highfalutin nose of the "fascinating" kurt ... the nerve of them coming out of their breeding place, to gas their vapid ignorance into his private pissing parlor!!! 

somehow, you find my treatment of him objectionable, yet find his comments beyond reproach ... and you know what? that is a snapshot of what i have been saying about your moderation "skills" ever since i was unfortunately accosted by them ... i don't find it peculiar at all that you are painting a vivid picture of your biased MO, you do that ALL the time ... i just finding it querulous that you get away with it ... 

On Monday, March 17, 2014 1:30:01 PM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Well what he did was pretty obvious in those two links and he's done that numerous times. All anyone has to do is click on the first post if it was written by Kurt or E_Space and then look at the others first comment.

When E_Space responds to Kurt they are ALL like that.

Just close your eyes and pick a thread. Even one that Kurt isn't in and you'll see E_Space abusing everyone.

No arguments. No attempts to make even a stupid case. Just abuse.

Here's a thread from 2009. This was when E_Space, XNun, Liam and others were colluding.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum/JpdIqIZwEx4/sPe7iGnsEv8J

We are very careful to protect Free Speech on this group so that discussion was in depth. 

E_Space couldn't even stop his abuse and interact by giving an argument, any argument, even a stupid argument in that entire discussion.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 17, 2014 4:36:57 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

We have lots of vitriol on AvC. We're a free speech site and that's normal for us.

Here's the difference between what E_Space does and what debaters (even poor debaters) do.

Kurt starts a thread and presents an argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/9x3K-JBaqagJ

Yes Rupert the argument might be completely idiotic. IDK I haven't read it. That isn't the point. It's an argument.

E_Space's response to the argument: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/CIklkcxc6U8/jBfz-CRKZFUJ

That's abuse. E_Space makes NO effort to engage anyone, ever in debate.

NOW we will see him start because he's going to realize that he has to put on a show that he is doing it despite the fact that he KNOWS he isn't.

So, I expect we'll see a change now. That's his deceitful pattern of behavior.

However, ALL the examples I will be showing over the next couple of days will be from BEFORE I brought this issue up.

All right. Well, I understand your argument, I feel like it's hard for me to comment because I haven't read all of e_space's posts, and I'm hoping Kurt will show up and let us know what he thinks about it.

I guess the Owners will make some kind of decision in a few days.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

and here is someone else's response to your boy from the same thread (there are MANY more like this, although you obviously (read 'obsessively' ) skim over them ... 

"MORON is still not doing his research because MORON is a moron. 

It took a sofer (Jewish scribe, had to be Jewish... because Hebrew letters) a year and half to produce a new Torah... So much for three days MORON.

 

Also, MORON, this was a HOLY BOOK to those who wrote and 'paid for it' there is no evidence that this was 'cheap'. Until MORON produces evidence, with citations, that JEWISH SCRIBES were cheap MORON is making stuff up. P.S. because MORON would not understand this, letters from Egypt would not count as evidence of cheap JEWISH scribes... Not would letters, in general, tell us anything about the production of Torah, but MORON is to dumb, dumb to understand this.  

Is MORON ready to make any more moron claims?"

nope, don't see any "abuse" there ... certainly nothing as bad as inciting mange and calling people retarded ... this is a small glimpse of how the regulars here interact with your boy ... what, no admonitions to marc? careful ... your bias is showing!

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

[e_space]

a VERY small percentage of your research my dear:

here's some comments to and from your boy that seemingly you gleam over because of your rabid anti e_space obsession;

"The elementary algebra of the Uncertainty Principle that's eternally above the intellectual ability of forum atheists for instance since it's certainly been demonstrated here none can do the elementary algebra." ... awww, that's nice kurt ... no insult taken

steve likes kurt ... "My, oh my but you are such a disagreeable little wanker.  What's the matter Kurt the cute girl (...boy?) in 3rd period Social Studies not interested in you?  Damn, if you're not a n angry, sullen, self-absorbed 13 year old you sure do a great imitation of one.  "

more kurt admiration ... "Math?  Long suit??? I'd ask WTF are you talking about, but you've consistently proven time and again, that you don't have a clue."

"Perhaps the person who posts as Kurt Goedel could shed some light on this as, not only is he apparently knowledgeable in all things, he is also religious, and likely mentally ill." ... kurt's response "From those that take "medication" for their "mental issues"."

to steve "And now, the slug thinks calling someone a homosexual is an insult. Yeah, stick to that, it's your long suit" ... of course steve said no such thing

closely followed by steve's comment "LMAO...Aren't you just adorable.  I do love your consistently failed efforts at two-bit insults. But you're right.  I shouldn't have attacked your confusion over your sexual orientation. I see now how wrong I was.  You're so in love with yourself there's absolutely no room for anyone else, male or female, in your private little universe."

"Please, get your psychiatrist to increase the dosage.  You're paranoid delusions and feelings of persecution are a serious clinical matter.  You shouldn't take them lightly. Especially that martyr complex. I hope you get the help you need."

more kurt politeness ... "I produced this for John, who repeatedly asks for the same damn thing every couple days, like a demented organ grinder's monkey on meth, turning the crank. And if I don't go fetch it for the deliberately lying moron atheist, it will spew it's filthy little moron lies because it's all they have. Deliberate lies." ... THEY = all atheists

do i need to go on clarifying this for you??? if so, i'm charging an hourly wage ... ;-^)

On Monday, March 17, 2014 11:24:38 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

This thread will probably run for a few days to give people a chance to respond.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Owners have been cc'd on this.

They make the final decision.

They review everyone's opinions and will decide.

Mostly they go with the majority.

On occasion (and I think it only happened once), if the majority is obviously wrong, they have on occasion done what they thought was right and provided an explanation.

The Moderators can only ban under certain limited conditions (spammers, illegal posts, porn). 

The rest has to be done by the Owners and is rarely done.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 17, 2014 4:00:24 PM UTC+1, Trance Gemini wrote:

It bears repeating that the only reason (IMO) that atheists are currently not seeing E_Space's behavior as a problem is because he isn't targeting atheists right now.

He used to and we have threads in this forum started by atheists who wanted him banned for his abuse.

Feel free to check.

All right. Well, you've given some of your reasons and I've thrown in my two cents. What's the procedure? Do the moderators take a vote on it or something?

Is there an agreed procedure for such things? There probably should be one. And you should clarify, does it only have to be a majority of moderators, or does it have to be unanimous, that kind of thing.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs. Christianity Moderator Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
Chairperson

Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
Evil Anagrams Division

[Trance Gemini]

Wow. It couldn't possibly be the fact that the last discussion we had was you getting your nose out of joint because I objected to PZs bullshit.

It must be an obsession.

Are you planning to hijack this entire thread and make it about you and your issues Bob?

I suggest you start your own if you want to have a little whinefest about the fact that I think your hero PZ is an idiot

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity-m...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christia...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trance Gemini]

Repeating this to ensure that it doesn't get missed.

Well what he did was pretty obvious in those two links and he's done that numerous times. All anyone has to do is click on the first post if it was written by Kurt or E_Space and then look at the others first comment.

When E_Space responds to Kurt they are ALL like that.

Just close your eyes and pick a thread. Even one that Kurt isn't in and you'll see E_Space abusing everyone.

No arguments. No attempts to make even a stupid case. Just abuse.

Here's a thread from 2009. This was when E_Space, XNun, Liam and others were colluding.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity-moderator-forum/JpdIqIZwEx4/sPe7iGnsEv8J

We are very careful to protect Free Speech on this group so that discussion was in depth. 

E_Space couldn't even stop his abuse and interact by giving an argument, any argument, even a stupid argument in that entire discussion.

[Kent Jennings]

Your use of gratuitous insults indicate that this more of a personal vendetta than a rational argument. I would suggest if you wish to improve the level of discourse in the group you lead by example and refrain from your own gratuitous insults.

It is my observation that e-space only started insulting Kurt after Kurt started insulting everyone else. Basically Kurt posts nonsense and when flaws are pointed out he results to insults rather than refuting the arguments,  

I note that there is basically no support for banning e-space in this discussion and I certainly will leave the discussion group if he is banned. 

[e_space]

lol ... typical over-reaction from the drama queen ... great personality for a moderator ... you were the one that brought pz whoever into this thread ... not bob ... he made one little comment about it which, because it indicated bob wasn't on your side in this 'debate', drove you over the edge, like SO many things do ... moderators should have a steady unbiased unabusive personality ... all traits that are FAR removed from who you are ... i suggest you do what you claim to be good at, like inciting mange, and leave moderation to those who are suited for the job ... you wear the title like a crown and armor to abuse others while protecting yourself ... if you applied for a moderator's job in real life you would get laughed out of the room ... 

[e_space]

lol ... run out of relevant things to say (not that you had any), so just repeat what was already posted, which did not show any abuse that is different that the type of abuse kurt dishes out ... moderate for fuck sakes, don't just spin your bias ... i provided plenty of evidence to show the abusiveness of the person i am responding to and that you are trying to protect (for some strange reason) ... nobody here is supporting either you or kurt ... doesn't that mean anything to you? 

also, there are TONS of posts where i am debating but oddly enough, you can't find ONE of them, prompting you to make bizarre comments like "Just close your eyes and pick a thread. Even one that Kurt isn't in and you'll see E_Space abusing everyone. No arguments. No attempts to make even a stupid case. Just abuse." ... yet to date you haven't picked out one comment that you have pointed to as abuse ... and you have not commented on all of the posts that i have supplied by others who are doing more or less the same thing ... your moderators "skills" are non-existent ... 

[e_space]

see anything worth defending in this thread? https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/atheism-vs-christianity/cIHwAFJmYs0 ... its VERY typical of the boy you are defending, except that its milder than most ... starting to get the drift yet? no need to answer ... ;-^)

On Monday, March 17, 2014 9:22:58 PM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

[Trance Gemini]

Gratuitous and unprovoked insults are E_Space's demonstrated specialty.

Insults are normal on this group and are in context of an argument being made. These are the kinds of insults you will see posted by me and most others in this group from time to time. IOW. When I insult someone I'm actually making a point.

I don't make insults gratuitously and this thread isn't about me so I suggest you and others who hold grudges because you can't handle differences of opinion and can't let go nurse them elsewhere.

This thread is about the demonstrated gratuitous and often unprovoked insults repeatedly made by E_space.

I have provided evidence of the fact that E_space has a history of making attacks that are both gratuitous and unprovoked. There are numerous links in those conversations and links in this one which demonstrate that E_space made gratuitous and unprovoked attacks on Kurt.

Your choice to self-servingly ignore those facts and try to turn this into a baseless and undemonstrated attack on me along with your emotive to threat to flounce if you don't get your way says quite a lot about your objectivity.

Your assertion that E_space is some innocent who just jumped in defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany is undemonstrated.

As we know, just because a lot of people believe stupid things doesn't mean those beliefs reflect reality. If that was the case, gods would exist.

So. Please provide some evidence of this allegation that E_space is just some innocent who just jumped in to defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany.

I have years of experience with E_space and know perfectly that you can't.

In fact I will locate the first exchange between E_space and Kurt and I can guarantee without even looking that E_space started this with gratuitous and unprovoked insults.

Feel free to 'flounce' as well. 

I deal with rational arguments not emotive, self-serving assertions and dramatic threats that someone is going to leave if they don't get their way.

Note the key difference here is:

1. MOST AvC debaters, including Kurt, provide an argument of some sort. You might hate the argument but it's there. 

2. E_Space doesn't provide arguments (bad, good, or mediocre) unless he's trying to deceptively prove me wrong in which case, when I call him on his bad behavior he will for brief periods of time do what he already knows he should be doing here but refuses to and has openly stated as early as 2009 (see the link I provided in a previous post) that doing so was a waste of time and that he just came here to have 'fun'. His definition of 'fun' was to harass posters.

At that time he was targeting atheist posters and pretending to be a theist. (Evidence the 2009 thread provided earlier)

Then he pretended to spiritual and therefore a neutral party and would target whoever he felt like.

Now, ironically he's targeting theist posters and pretending to be an atheist.

Any atheist who buys E_space's scam is a complete idiot and frankly deserves to be scammed by him.

Feel free NOT to read the evidence I've provided since some of you obviously haven't given your comments.

Early exchanges:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/fPcicV__X-U/FNcZzeD19R0J

Just love the phony self-righteous personal outrage here given that E_space himself has said MUCH WORSE about atheists on AvC.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/vUHffVgrB2s/S8m6JYqCyEMJ

Like here where apparently talking to atheists is like talking to 'void space':

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/Atheism-vs-Christianity/qPrR9qkR6sQ/YdF7E-xjoi0J

And here where he gets caught telling bald-faced and in your face lies:

This atheist (and quite a few others who were excellent posters left this group around that time because of all the 'troll's like e_space whose disruptions were being tolerated, encouraged and accepted by some on AvC. He explicitly states that in this thread.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/Atheism-vs-Christianity/MrogpU21zOY/ZMd4sHzbVhAJ

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/0b1f02af-76bb-46dc-8001-43c72b762ed5%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 5:50:20 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Gratuitous and unprovoked insults are E_Space's demonstrated specialty.

yawnzzz ... still waiting for you to substantiate silly claims like that ... like kent says, i do pick on abusive types, such as yourself, which of course is why you have what he referred to as a "personal vendetta" against me

 

Insults are normal on this group and are in context of an argument being made. These are the kinds of insults you will see posted by me and most others in this group from time to time. IOW. When I insult someone I'm actually making a point.

I don't make insults gratuitously

you MUST be kidding!!!

 

and this thread isn't about me

this thread IS about YOU ... it was initiated by YOU, for YOUR own biased agenda... as everyone who has commented in this thread has indicated, they don't find any reason to ban me ... YOU are the only one who is after that ... and for unfair biased reasons ... 

 

so I suggest you and others who hold grudges because you can't handle differences of opinion and can't let go nurse them elsewhere.

what a pathetic analysis ... YOU hold grudges ... do you think the people you penned this silly comment to hold grudges against you? if so, why would they? YOU can't let go ... you come back after a month of absence and virtually every single post since you have come back are against me ... i also see no indication that the people you are addressing are adversely affected by differences of opinion ... that is what a blog is about! ... do you think they would be coming here if everybody agreed on every topic??? doh! 

 

This thread is about the demonstrated gratuitous and often unprovoked insults repeatedly made by E_space.

yep, that YOU and YOU alone seem to think exists, while absolving yourself completely from ever gratuitously insulting others ... a laughable joke 

 

I have provided evidence of the fact that E_space has a history of making attacks that are both gratuitous and unprovoked. There are numerous links in those conversations and links in this one which demonstrate that E_space made gratuitous and unprovoked attacks on Kurt.

my comments to kurt were provoked by the history of his posts here, something you know nothing about because, as moderator, you have been in absentia, a time of peace when compared to times when you are here ...   

 

Your choice to self-servingly ignore those facts and try to turn this into a baseless and undemonstrated attack on me along with your emotive to threat to flounce if you don't get your way says quite a lot about your objectivity.

lol ... are you talking to and about yourself? sure sounds like it WAY more than the person you are actually addressing ... here is another indication of the vitriol of your "personality", lashing out at all who have the nerve to disagree with you, while totally ignoring the fact that it is YOU who holds these traits ... whoosh! 

 

Your assertion that E_space is some innocent who just jumped in defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany is undemonstrated.

what assertion? i didn't read anything about my innocence, or that he said i was defending atheists honor ... spin it until it sounds like you have a point ... don't worry about facts ... your MO in spades ... 

 

As we know, just because a lot of people believe stupid things doesn't mean those beliefs reflect reality. If that was the case, gods would exist.

So. Please provide some evidence of this allegation that E_space is just some innocent who just jumped in to defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany.

why should he, you are the one making that claim ... doh! 

 

I have years of experience with E_space and know perfectly that you can't.

In fact I will locate the first exchange between E_space and Kurt and I can guarantee without even looking that E_space started this with gratuitous and unprovoked insults.

sure, go ahead ... you actually doing relevant research would be a first ... 

 

Feel free to 'flounce' as well. 

huh? 

 

I deal with rational arguments not emotive,

lol ... you MUST be kidding!!! 

 

self-serving assertions and dramatic threats that someone is going to leave if they don't get their way.

no, they will leave if YOU get YOUR way ... they aren't stumping for anything, YOU are ... something that so far YOU have garnered NO support for ... yet this doesn't even make YOU consider that maybe YOU are wrong 

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/0b1f02af-76bb-46dc-8001-43c72b762ed5%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

more "support" for your agenda from lawrey? so far you are batting 0% ... keep trying though, it can only improve ... ;-^)

 Kent,

                        It is with a measure of disappointment I feel that this ban threat should have been directed at e_space. Had it been to Kurt I may better have understood if he were cautioned.
                        I know it is not your personal wish to be involved in this and I personally also would wish that it were otherwise, but I second your position and myself
                        will withdraw from any further participation in this site  if e_space is banned.

[Trance Gemini]

It's a truly sad when atheists (who claim intelligence and the high road) sink to such depths of stupidity and ignorance.

I've seen the collapse happening here for quite a while. Shame really. 

Not a single effort to grasp the point or investigate the facts.

Black and white thinking, Us vs them thinking at it's best.

This isn't about Kurt. It isn't about me. 

As much as E_space would like to deflect attention away from his demonstrated behavior of harassment and abuse and towards others the fact is that it is about his ENTIRE history, pre-Kurt's appearance on this site of harassment and abuse.

He gives himself the right to tell newbie theist posters they should leave AvC after harassing them. He's done this twice both to Yarrido and another member he thought was new but has actually been here off and on since the early days of AvC.

I object to this arrogance and harassment. AvC is first and foremost a DEBATING site for BOTH atheists and theists. No-one expects people to get along or even make the effort. The site is for debating. 

E_space stated in his post (see the previous link) that 'debating was a waste of time' and explicitly stated that he was here to 'have fun' by harassing people and had no intention of debating anyone.

I will post his comments in their entirety since some are too lazy to actually read the thread. Not that I expect them to bother reading this post either. Self-serving is as self-serving does and they want to make this drama about petty, irrelevant personal issues rather than what it actually is which to deal with the disruptive behavior by someone who appears to be intent on harming this group.

Example: 
Trance: 

http://groups.google.ca/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/msg/48d5d2cf64983449?hl=en 

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:54 PM, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> the situation is this... u disagree because u have not had a spiritual 
> experience, and no amount of debate will change that, so why bother? 

Then why bother posting here? 
This is a debating site not an "everyone should just accept 
everything 
E_Space says" forum. 
So why bother joining if you don't think it's worthwhile to debate. 
There are hundreds of forums about spirituality where you can share 
your 
experience with people who will accept it. 
Why come here and disrupt our site by engaging in vitriol, abuse and 
hate? 

E_Space: 

http://groups.google.ca/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/msg/c542946cda1fa26d?hl=en 

lol....still dont get it huh? u wear dark sunglasses while posting 
here? and...i post here for fun...u guys are a riot...u see things 
your way and NO other way...u dont recognize abuse from your side, 
yet 
as soon as someone that doesnt buy into your blankness says anything 
close to abuse u jump all over them...wakey wakey inatrance 


http://groups.google.ca/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/msg/ee6228dc9f95ab5a?hl=en 

and another thing...i do go to spirituality forums and have a great, 
but vastly different, time than i have here. and they dont have to 
accept what i say, because the already know what im talking about and 
vice versa...we have a tendency to share stuff...not 'debate' or 
whatever u want to call what goes on here...its a world apart from 
this forum, like light compared to blankness....yet i still like 
coming here, just for a bit of comic relief. i know u would like me 
to 
go, but i seem to be on an anti-abuse crusade...it sorta lets me be a 
brat without offending anyone who isnt already offending someone 
else...thanks for the suggestion though ;-^) 

I have years of experience with E_space.

Note the key difference here is:

1. MOST AvC debaters, including Kurt, provide an argument of some sort. You might hate the argument but it's there. 

2. E_Space doesn't provide arguments (bad, good, or mediocre) unless he's trying to deceptively prove me wrong in which case, when I call him on his bad behavior he will for brief periods of time do what he already knows he should be doing here but refuses to and has openly stated as early as 2009 (see the link I provided in a previous post) that doing so was a waste of time and that he just came here to have 'fun'. His definition of 'fun' was to harass posters.

I would say 80% approximately (could be even higher) his comments amount to ignorant bashing and nothing more.

Occasionally he will explain why he doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks or why he can't be bothered 'debating' etc.

1% of his posts are actual 'debate arguments' when he's trying to prove that my allegations about him are wrong. He keeps it up just long enough and then continues his merry way.

When he joined AvC, he was targeting atheist posters and pretending to be a theist. (Evidence the 2009 thread provided earlier)

Then he pretended to spiritual and therefore a neutral party and would target whoever he felt like on both sides, presumably hoping to create allies on both sides.

Now, ironically he's targeting theist posters and pretending to be an atheist.

Any atheist who buys E_space's scam is a complete fool and frankly deserves to be scammed by him.

His history is pretty open and shut and demonstrated in these links and other links which I'll be providing to show his different personas, how he uses them to manipulate people, and the timing of his interventions.

Feel free NOT to read the evidence I've provided since some of you obviously haven't given your comments.

Early exchanges:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/fPcicV__X-U/FNcZzeD19R0J

Just love the phony self-righteous personal outrage here given that E_space himself has said MUCH WORSE about atheists on AvC.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/vUHffVgrB2s/S8m6JYqCyEMJ

Like here where apparently talking to atheists is like talking to 'void space':

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/Atheism-vs-Christianity/qPrR9qkR6sQ/YdF7E-xjoi0J

And here where he gets caught telling bald-faced and in your face lies:

This atheist (and quite a few others who were excellent posters left this group around that time because of all the 'troll's like e_space whose disruptions were being tolerated, encouraged and accepted by some on AvC. He explicitly states that in this thread.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/Atheism-vs-Christianity/MrogpU21zOY/ZMd4sHzbVhAJ

 

[e_space]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 8:36:43 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

It's a truly sad when atheists (who claim intelligence and the high road) sink to such depths of stupidity and ignorance.

what atheists are 'claiming intelligence' as it relates to your ongoing and obsessive agenda? what 'stupidity and ignorance' are you claiming the unnamed individuals are partaking in with this new batch of gratuitous insults? if you are trying to make a point, include details, because your typical broad sweeping comments mean little to anyone here specifically ... they just indicate a hateful person throwing a bomb into a room full of people that happen to disagree with her ... don't agree with me? you are stupid and ignorant ... typically troll ammo ... 

 

I've seen the collapse happening here for quite a while. Shame really. 

what collapse? ... you are the only one causing any problems around here ... please go on another vacation ... the room was doing fine without you ... 

 

Not a single effort to grasp the point or investigate the facts.

now that describes you perfectly ... meanwhile, the people who post here regularly don't have to investigate, because they already know what is going on here ... it is people like you, you jump in from nowhere and start making claims based on ignorance that is the issue ... YOU are the one that is making a big deal out of this, NOBODY else ... did you even read the comments i researched for you indicating that MANY others here also have negative words for your boy ... 

 

Black and white thinking, Us vs them thinking at it's best.

right ... now, can you please start wearing some white for a change? the black cloud that hovers over you in perpetuity is getting rather old, don't you think? 

 

This isn't about Kurt. It isn't about me. 

ummm ... yes it is ... YOU are the only reason this thread is open ... not one other person has yet to take the side of YOUR issue ... so in fact it is about YOU ... live with it, or not (shrug) 

 

As much as E_space would like to deflect attention away from his demonstrated behavior of harassment and abuse and towards others the fact is that it is about his ENTIRE history, pre-Kurt's appearance on this site of harassment and abuse.

wrong yet again ... i'm not trying to deflect anything ... i am responding to your misguided attack with evidence that disputes your claims ... and for you to say that in my ENTIRE history here i have never done anything but harass and abuse is an outright lie ... if you were under oath, you would be charged with contempt of court ... 

 

He gives himself the right to tell newbie theist posters they should leave AvC after harassing them. He's done this twice both to Yarrido and another member he thought was new but has actually been here off and on since the early days of AvC.

i have the right of freedom of speech, just like you do ... and i didn't tell him to leave, i suggested that if he didn't want to enter into dialogue, but to only preach his rhetoric (which he stated was his intent), he would be better off elsewhere ... maybe you can do some research and pull up that thread ... but i doubt it ... 

 

I object to this arrogance and harassment. AvC is first and foremost a DEBATING site for BOTH atheists and theists. No-one expects people to get along or even make the effort. The site is for debating. 

yet you don't object to kurt's arrogance and slander, which i am in fact responding to? and since when do you consider your commentary here to be debating? you haven't made one debating post since you soiled this site several days ago ... but i forget, you don't have to do what you preach, you are the moderator and rule the joint any way you deem fit ... right? 

 

E_space stated in his post (see the previous link) that 'debating was a waste of time' and explicitly stated that he was here to 'have fun' by harassing people and had no intention of debating anyone.

I will post his comments in their entirety since some are too lazy to actually read the thread.

lol ... they aren't interested trolly, that's YOUR job, since YOU are the one that is interested in this stuff ... they aren't ... get it? 

 

Not that I expect them to bother reading this post either. Self-serving is as self-serving does and they want to make this drama about petty, irrelevant personal issues

why do SO many people have "petty, irrelevant personal issues" with you? any ideas at all?  

 

rather than what it actually is which to deal with the disruptive behavior by someone who appears to be intent on harming this group.

they aren't disrupted by my 'behavior' ... YOU are ... why is it SO hard for these facts to penetrate your cranium? 

[lawrey]

          Kent,

                        It is with a measure of disappointment I feel that this ban threat should have been directed at e_space. Had it been to Kurt I may better have understood if he were cautioned.
                        I know it is not your personal wish to be involved in this and I personally also would wish that it were otherwise, but I second your position and myself
                        will withdraw from any further participation in this site  if e_space is banned.

[Kent Jennings]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 2:50:20 AM UTC-7, Trance Gemini wrote:

Gratuitous and unprovoked insults are E_Space's demonstrated specialty.

Insults are normal on this group and are in context of an argument being made. These are the kinds of insults you will see posted by me and most others in this group from time to time. IOW. When I insult someone I'm actually making a point.

The only point insults, your or others, make is that you have no rational arguments.

 

I don't make insults gratuitously and this thread isn't about me so I suggest you and others who hold grudges because you can't handle differences of opinion and can't let go nurse them elsewhere.

I disagree. Your insults are quite gratuitous and add nothing of  substance to the debate. I do not hold grudges and you will see that my posts are largely insult free. I know how to carry on an argument without insults. 

 

This thread is about the demonstrated gratuitous and often unprovoked insults repeatedly made by E_space.

This thread is about your personal vendetta against e-space.

 

I have provided evidence of the fact that E_space has a history of making attacks that are both gratuitous and unprovoked. There are numerous links in those conversations and links in this one which demonstrate that E_space made gratuitous and unprovoked attacks on Kurt.

Your choice to self-servingly ignore those facts and try to turn this into a baseless and undemonstrated attack on me along with your emotive to threat to flounce if you don't get your way says quite a lot about your objectivity.

I have not ignored the evidence and do not want to be part of a group that arbitrarily bans people.  I have read many posts by many people and do not find e-space any worse than a lot of other people including yourself. If one has to keep on your good side to prevent being banned, this is not a useful group to be part of. That is why I would leave. 

 

Your assertion that E_space is some innocent who just jumped in defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany is undemonstrated.

You obviously have not been following the threads. I have been following the threads from the beginning and have seen how the insulting began. 

 

As we know, just because a lot of people believe stupid things doesn't mean those beliefs reflect reality. If that was the case, gods would exist.

So. Please provide some evidence of this allegation that E_space is just some innocent who just jumped in to defend atheist honor after Kurt was a big meany.

I have years of experience with E_space and know perfectly that you can't.

In fact I will locate the first exchange between E_space and Kurt and I can guarantee without even looking that E_space started this with gratuitous and unprovoked insults.

Feel free to 'flounce' as well. 

I dislike arbitrary decisions. 

 

I deal with rational arguments not emotive, self-serving assertions and dramatic threats that someone is going to leave if they don't get their way.

That has not been demonstrated. 

 

Note the key difference here is:

1. MOST AvC debaters, including Kurt, provide an argument of some sort. You might hate the argument but it's there. 

I do not hate the arguments. Some of the augments are rather amusing. I just find the insults that go with them distracting and unnecessary. They distract from the possibility of rational debate. 

 

2. E_Space doesn't provide arguments (bad, good, or mediocre) unless he's trying to deceptively prove me wrong in which case, when I call him on his bad behavior he will for brief periods of time do what he already knows he should be doing here but refuses to and has openly stated as early as 2009 (see the link I provided in a previous post) that doing so was a waste of time and that he just came here to have 'fun'. His definition of 'fun' was to harass posters.

At that time he was targeting atheist posters and pretending to be a theist. (Evidence the 2009 thread provided earlier)

I saw the switch. I was not born yesterday,

Then he pretended to spiritual and therefore a neutral party and would target whoever he felt like.

Now, ironically he's targeting theist posters and pretending to be an atheist.

Any atheist who buys E_space's scam is a complete idiot and frankly deserves to be scammed by him.

Feel free NOT to read the evidence I've provided since some of you obviously haven't given your comments.

I read it and was not convinced. Do not be so sure of your own ideas. I notice that few if any on this thread have agreed with you. Perhaps there is a reason for that. 

 

Early exchanges:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/fPcicV__X-U/FNcZzeD19R0J

Just love the phony self-righteous personal outrage here given that E_space himself has said MUCH WORSE about atheists on AvC.

I did not suggest he be banned for that either.

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/0b1f02af-76bb-46dc-8001-43c72b762ed5%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[e_space]

regarding the ongoing banter in the main room ... i find it rather querulous that "mod issues" only seem to be raised by the mod herself ... nobody else seems to be having any issues ... if people were complaining about my commentary, i agree that 'mod issues' would be relevant ... since no one seems to be, the "issues" seem to be with the mod, not the room ... 

[Trance Gemini]

Kent.

This is sheer speculation on your part unless you've become a psychic mindreader. Have you?

If you don't have any interest in staying On Topic and discussing E_Space's behavior then please leave this thread and start your own.

This isn't about me and isn't about Kurt and isn't about whatever grudge you've nursing relating to me.

Deflecting attention by attacking others doesn't equate to clearing E_space of the allegations I'm making.

You're going to have to address those directly and refute them.

Neither you nor anyone else will do that because you CAN'T refute.

They are part of the fixed AvC historical record and expose E_space for exactly what he is.

But good luck. Feel free to try.

[Trance Gemini]

Screenshots of E_Space telling Les to leave AvC. Les is a long term AvC poster who precedes E_Space and consistently contributes constructively to the group.

The case I'm making against E_space is:

1. He has explicitly stated he has no interest in debating us

2. He has explicitly stated he comes here for 'fun' and that 'fun' constitutes harassing us.

3. His periods of absence end very quickly whenever we start getting new people joining our group.

4. When he starts reposting he targets the new people for harassment and tries to actively discourage their participation as this screenshot is explicit evidence of.

Note that Les is only the most RECENT poster he's done this to.

Previously he did the same to Yarrido.

Since I came down on him quite hard for that, he appears to have changed his strategy with Kurt and is just focusing on stalking and harassing him.

Maybe people should consider that at least SOME of Kurt's hostility might be sourced in E_space's intentionally harassing behavior.

SEE the Screenshot attached. The link to the thread is here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/iAGF6M-SX_Q/LbhmJWZjiz8J

[e_space]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 11:03:05 AM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

Kent.

This is sheer speculation on your part unless you've become a psychic mindreader. Have you?

one would have to be a mind reader to figure out what you think kent is speculating on ... little lacking in the details there my dear ... 

 

If you don't have any interest in staying On Topic and discussing E_Space's behavior then please leave this thread and start your own.

This isn't about me and isn't about Kurt and isn't about whatever grudge you've nursing relating to me.

i take it you can read, but you seem to have a VERY hard problem with comprehension ... it IS about YOU ... YOU brought it up, and so far ONLY YOU are suggesting that i be banned ...and btw, kent just finished informing you that he doesn't harbor any grudges against you ... your paranoia is bursting in air ... 

 

Deflecting attention by attacking others doesn't equate to clearing E_space of the allegations I'm making.

i don't see him attacking you ... he seems to be defending himself against your attacks however ... you are trying to get me banned, and when others (all others to this point) disagree with you, they all of a sudden morph into stupid unintelligent people ... funny how that works eh? 

 

You're going to have to address those directly and refute them.

why? YOU are the ONLY one who has issues with me ... any clue why?

 

Neither you nor anyone else will do that because you CAN'T refute.

They are part of the fixed AvC historical record and expose E_space for exactly what he is.

you have NO idea "exactly" what i am ... NONE 

 

But good luck. Feel free to try.

why should he try? this is YOUR ballgame and you have not shown any evidence of egregious abuse on my part that is in any way worse than others ... hey, at least i don't go around calling people retarded, stupid and ignorant ...   

[e_space]

boy, i made some good points in that thread ... thanks for bringing it to the front!  ;-^)

[Kent Jennings]

If your argument is so strong why is no one supporting you? Is there a single post that supports your position? If there is, I missed it.

[Trance Gemini]

On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 12:27:47 UTC-4, Kent Jennings wrote:

If your argument is so strong why is no one supporting you? Is there a single post that supports your position? If there is, I missed it.

Wow. So ... you're seriously going to run with the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy.

Like I've said many times before. When people start off with logical fallacies it's because they don't have any rational arguments.

Like I said.

Deal directly with the issues raised and refute my allegations which are supported and demonstrated by the AvC historical record.

Good luck.

[e_space]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 12:42:54 PM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 12:27:47 UTC-4, Kent Jennings wrote:

If your argument is so strong why is no one supporting you? Is there a single post that supports your position? If there is, I missed it.

Wow. So ... you're seriously going to run with the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy.

why do you possibly think his opinion has anything to do with that of others??? oh right ... its your obsessive paranoia ruling your "thought process" again ... how typical ... all of a sudden, kent does not have the mental capacity to come to his own conclusions ... and the reason you came to his opinion is? ... why, its because he has the temerity to disagree with the queen ... stone him i say!!!! 

 

Like I've said many times before. When people start off with logical fallacies it's because they don't have any rational arguments.

Like I said.

Deal directly with the issues raised and refute my allegations which are supported and demonstrated by the AvC historical record.

why does anybody need to refute your "allegations"? ... YOU are making them for YOUR purposes (read 'agenda') ... NOBODY else is having these issues ... i am sure i am not the most respected debater on this site, but i'm not the most abusive either ... that lofty position is more appropriate when aimed at your new ally, or at yourself ... 

 

Good luck.

by the looks of it, it is you that needs a bit of luck ... you are alienating yourself in your attacks on others ... it started out with the typical anti-e_space rant, but now it includes attacks on all those who do not support your biased position ... all of a sudden they turn from fellow atheists who you have had some sort of positive communication with in the past, to them being "stupid and ignorant" and now puppets ... it doesn't take long for things to unravel in your dark world, does it? 

[Ed Jarrett]

OK, I am growing weary of all the emails this has generated.  AvC long ago ceased to be a real debate site and has primarily become a site that allows people, with a certain amount of anonymity, to make fun of each other, or to promote their own specific agenda.  That is not to say that no real debate takes place, but debate is more the exception than the norm.  And that is why I no longer participate here.  

For those of you who do not know me, I am one of the owners of AvC.  And as Trance has pointed out, resolution of this issue is mine to make.  If AvC was a moderated debate site then it would be appropriate to take action against those who are hindering debate.  But AvC has from the beginning been essentially unmoderated where pretty much anything goes.  While I see little value in e-space's posts, I also see little value in most of what is posted on AvC in the last few years.  But he is not violating any AvC policy that I am aware of and will not be banned.  If you don't like what he is saying then just ignore him; it's easy if you try.  

Trance, give this another hour for folks to respond and then close this thread.

Ed Jarrett  

A Clay Jar: http://aclayjar.blogspot.com/  

Eeyore Hikes: http://eeyorehikes.blogspot.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71 

[Trance Gemini]

Ok Ed.

[Trance Gemini]

I'm sure this is frustrating for both of you but seriously. I'm just trying to save this frigging group.

e_space is doing stuff intentionally to destroy it. It has gone way past him just being an asshole.

Any way I just wanted to make that point. 

On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 13:17:50 UTC-4, OldMan wrote:

[Kent Jennings]

I have learned from long experience that when no one agrees with me, either I am wrong or my agreement is weak. My views are not guided by popular opinion but if I cannot convince people I respect, I carefully re-examine them. I note that your arguments not only have not convinced me but have not convinced other people on the forum whose critical thinking ability has been demonstrated in their posts. I am not so arrogant as to believe that only my own opinion can be trusted. Part of the scientific method is peer review. You wish to ban e-space has failed the peer review test. 

e-space does tend to post short responses but they frequently hit on a salient point in the previous post. 

[e_space]

actually, from my viewpoint, AvC is WAY more bearable than when i first started coming here ... back then it was a fiery war zone ... many of the conversations these days are highly intellectual, (meaning they are above my comprehension ;-^) ... and typically much more civil ... i guess i have a bit of a habit about throwing crap back at the slingers ... but i maintain that i never start abuse, just react to it ... if it can be shown that this is not the case, i would be interested in seeing it ... 

[e_space]

reacting to abuse is not an attempt to destroy anything ... in fact, on some occasions dishing back the crap has softened the stance of the one dishing it out ... of course, you would never see that ... as far as 'making a point' is concerned, you do that whenever you come back from wherever you go to ... as it relates to being an asshole ... i mirror assholes, and that my dear is why i get under your skin ... maybe if you took some effort to soften your stance on occasion, you would not have so many people "holding grudges" as you call them??? not that that is an accurate assessment ... 

[Trance Gemini]

On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 13:25:24 UTC-4, Kent Jennings wrote:

I have learned from long experience that when no one agrees with me, either I am wrong or my agreement is weak. My views are not guided by popular opinion but if I cannot convince people I respect, I carefully re-examine them. I note that your arguments not only have not convinced me but have not convinced other people on the forum whose critical thinking ability has been demonstrated in their posts. I am not so arrogant as to believe that only my own opinion can be trusted. Part of the scientific method is peer review. You wish to ban e-space has failed the peer review test. 

Well no. You're wrong. First of all the peer test is only a valid test under some circumstances and it is highly unreliable. Like I said before if it wasn't, gods would exist. That's why Argumentum Ad Populum is a logical fallacy.

And there are certainly not enough people even bothering to participate in this discussion to make it relevant to anything.

I generally don't expect to succeed at banning people. It's very difficult to do here.

However, it does put e_space on notice that his bullshit is not appreciated and he does back off for a while.

I chose to do it this way rather than confronting him on the Main site because that just disrupts the Main site.

[e_space]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 1:35:52 PM UTC-4, Trance Gemini wrote:

On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 13:25:24 UTC-4, Kent Jennings wrote:

I have learned from long experience that when no one agrees with me, either I am wrong or my agreement is weak. My views are not guided by popular opinion but if I cannot convince people I respect, I carefully re-examine them. I note that your arguments not only have not convinced me but have not convinced other people on the forum whose critical thinking ability has been demonstrated in their posts. I am not so arrogant as to believe that only my own opinion can be trusted. Part of the scientific method is peer review. You wish to ban e-space has failed the peer review test. 

Well no. You're wrong. First of all the peer test is only a valid test under some circumstances and it is highly unreliable. Like I said before if it wasn't, gods would exist. That's why Argumentum Ad Populum is a logical fallacy.

And there are certainly not enough people even bothering to participate in this discussion to make it relevant to anything.

ummm ... it is because they find your quest childish and irrelevant that they are not participating??? remember, its your obsession that is driving this thing, not anybody elses ... besides, you got fairly good representation from the most active posters here ... what else were you looking for ... maybe have Dead Kennedy come back to offer you some support? 

 

I generally don't expect to succeed at banning people. It's very difficult to do here.

However, it does put e_space on notice that his bullshit is not appreciated and he does back off for a while.

nothing has changed from my perspective ... your threats to me and others are a bunch of hot air ... i will continue to be who i am ... when i catch up to you in the abuse category, i will ban myself ... ;-^)

[Trance Gemini]

You really should stop lying.

Those links I posted show you repeatedly as the instigator and none of your points are ever relevant. They're nothing more than personal attacks.

You've simply been able to take advantage of the hypocrisy demonstrated by this small group of atheists, who participated in this thread, and who don't care if you abuse theists in the way that you used to abuse atheists. 

They also hypocritically attacked you for abusing atheists in exactly the same way.

So they have pretty much discredited themselves. 

Their positions in this thread says a lot about this particular group of atheists and none of it is good given the fact that they chose to ignore the evidence provided and refused to address it.

Ironically ALL of them are one's who have recent personal grudges with me because I don't kow tow to whatever positions they deem politically correct.

You instigate and your intent is to hurt.

There isn't a shred of evidence to support your claim that you intervene to 'bully bullies'.

There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence provided by me and much more can be provided of your history of targeting, harassing and abusing numerous people here.

[rappoccio]

Unlocking for just a quick second, since I didn't get to this last night : I think the decision was made for us by the audience, but I'm just writing that I'm on board with Ed here. Thanks for trying to make things a little more civil, Trance, but it looks like people kind of want it the way it is ;). 

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 1:17:50 PM UTC-4, OldMan wrote: