Representation of atheists in Christian fiction

[Les]

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

 

 I have a 5 Chapter sample pdf can be downloaded here for anyone interested.

 

http://leslieey.com/blog/heat-death

 

[lawrey]

     les,

  As a somewhat aging wrinkly, I found the small type hard to read, could you remember  to write normally please.
  to the questions: 1. Why, should it? 2. probably. 3. Dependent on the proximity, Possibly. Worry No.  :)

[Trance Gemini]

Have you seen a TV series called Revolution?

Sort of similar storyline. One day all of the power goes out and the power plays begin.

1. It should be irrelevant whether the person is atheist or theist in the storyline because both will respond according to their character and personalities not their belief or lack of belief.

2. If it was run by wealthy businessmen martial law would be a given.

3. Maybe but I don't worry about anymore than I worry about an asteroid hitting the planet. 

Cool. I'm writing a novel too :-D (no religion).

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[random]

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 4:53:09 PM UTC+2, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

Not at all.
I don't even mind a villain atheist if the author doesn't write it in a way that it seems his atheism is what makes him evil (I've seen a couple of books like this)
 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

Somewhere between martial law and complete chaos, depending how many were already killed, how sudden was the event and what resources were lost to the government/army.
 

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

Not sure how possible it is, but it's used often enough to be shrugged even if it is not based on actual science.
Nothing to worry about in real life.
 

[Les]

Thanks Lawrey,

Sorry about the size of the text. .

I think my book will not be offensive per se. Mainly that as a Christian I don't fear the end of the world (or more correctly the end of the age), since I believe that God is going to fix the mess we made. However having flow into Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) during the season when Indonesian farmers burn native forest and leave a dense cloud of haze that stretches for 100s of kilometers I am all in favour of a cleaner/greener world.

Some people with environmental concerns may feel that I don't go far enough since I hate the idea of having children living in fear.

Concern yes. Fear No.

[Les]

Thanks TG

I will have to check Revolution out.

Do you know that NASA was funding the only Near earth object survey in the southern hemisphere and they were talking about withdrawing support?

(It could be closed down right now.)

Good luck with your novel

On Monday, October 28, 2013 12:41:55 AM UTC+8, Trance Gemini wrote:

Have you seen a TV series called Revolution?

Sort of similar storyline. One day all of the power goes out and the power plays begin.

1. It should be irrelevant whether the person is atheist or theist in the storyline because both will respond according to their character and personalities not their belief or lack of belief.

2. If it was run by wealthy businessmen martial law would be a given.

3. Maybe but I don't worry about anymore than I worry about an asteroid hitting the planet. 

Cool. I'm writing a novel too :-D (no religion).

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Les <lesl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

 

 I have a 5 Chapter sample pdf can be downloaded here for anyone interested.

 

http://leslieey.com/blog/heat-death

 

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[Les]

Nothing to worry about?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/2-weeks-ago-a-huge-solar-flare-almost-knocked-out-power-nationwide-which-could-have-caused-nuclear-meltdowns-from-coast-to-coast.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/033564_solar_flares_nuclear_power_plants.html

Looks like someone is looking after us. :)

[e_space]

'god' stopped a solar flare from the damaging power supply on earth? man, how hoodwinked can you get?!

[e_space]

if 'god' created us, then 'he' created the mess ... let 'him' clean it up ...

[Les]

Hi e_space,

I believe that God protects us way more that you could imagine.

Have you ever had a situation that was a real close call?

(i.e.to this day you can explain how you survived?)

God loves you with an infinite unconditional love.

[Bob T.]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:46:47 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

Hi e_space,

I believe that God protects us way more that you could imagine.

 

 

I believe that idea is contradicted by reality. 

Have you ever had a situation that was a real close call?

(i.e.to this day you can explain how you survived?)

 

 

Have you ever known anyone who died unexpectedly? 

God loves you with an infinite unconditional love.

 

 

And yet, millions of children are starving all over the world, and millions more are ill with various horrible diseases.  Does God not love them, too?

 

- Bob T

 

 

 

[Les]

Yes Bob 

That's why God gave

Yes He does Bob.

I might not be able to prove it to you but you will never convince me otherwise.

Here's a website you can check out since you are so concerned about children

http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/Secular_charities

 

 

- Bob T

 

 

 

[Bob T.]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 11:37:54 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

Yes Bob 

That's why God gave

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 2:27:52 AM UTC+8, Bob T. wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:46:47 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

Hi e_space,

I believe that God protects us way more that you could imagine.

 

 

I believe that idea is contradicted by reality. 

Have you ever had a situation that was a real close call?

(i.e.to this day you can explain how you survived?)

 

 

Have you ever known anyone who died unexpectedly? 

God loves you with an infinite unconditional love.

 

 

And yet, millions of children are starving all over the world, and millions more are ill with various horrible diseases.  Does God not love them, too?

Yes He does Bob.

I might not be able to prove it to you but you will never convince me otherwise.

 

 

I just don't see how you can claim that God intervenes to save our lives from time to time when so many people die pointlessly every day. 

Here's a website you can check out since you are so concerned about children

http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/Secular_charities

 

 

If there really was a loving and active God, we wouldn't need any secular charities.  Either God is not loving, or He does not intervene to save lives, or He does not exist at all.

 

- Bob T 

 

 

- Bob T

 

 

 

[Les]

The active loving God gave you enough to share.

Put up or shut up!

[e_space]

lets see ... 'he' stopped a solar flare that would have disrupted power supply, but let a tsunami kill 230,000+ in the pacific? why, because most of them are buddhists? how does that work?

[e_space]

my my, such language! ... you are the one lacking evidence, so i suggest you follow your own advice ... 

[Les]

We all die eventually.

But that does not change the fact that He loves us.

[Les]

So much for being friendly!

I regret the attitude but it makes me angry when people blame God for something they can help to fix.

[e_space]

so you attribute blessings from 'god' by sparing us from solar flares, yet state that 'we all die sometime' as a response as to why 'god' did nothing to protect hundreds of thousands from drowning in a tsunami? ... if you don't want to be rational, don't expect a response to your liking  ...  

[e_space]

i am not blaming your 'god' for anything because i don't believe in 'him' ... quit avoiding my comments by taking an offensive reaction ... respond with something i can sink my teeth into, or you will continue to be considered as avoiding the questions ... i will ask you again ... why do you think it was 'god' who stopped the earth from being affected by solar flares, but that 'he' had nothing to do with allowing a tsunami to kill thousands of people ... you can't cherry pick what 'god' did and what 'he' didn't do ... got anything relevant?

[Les]

We all die because we have all sinned. The world has turned it's back on God and told Him "we don't need your help".

Fortunately God loved us enough to send Jesus as a remedy for our sin in spite of our attitude towards Him.

And He will happily reveal Himself to anyone who seeks Him with all their heart.

[Dingbat]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 1:41:53 AM UTC-4, random wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 4:53:09 PM UTC+2, Les wrote:

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

Not at all.
I don't even mind a villain atheist if the author doesn't write it in a way that it seems his atheism is what makes him evil (I've seen a couple of books like this)

Which books? In GK Chesterton's first detective story, the villian is atheist and becomes a good guy upon being converted to Christianity by the hero, a priest. 

[random]

Read it a long time ago, so I don't remember the book's name.
I do remember it was a horror-thriller book where seemingly random people got strange powers and a group led by a scientists is chasing them for some reason and trying to kill them.
When the group of protagonists manage to break-in the lab and find information about the scientist, they rad the record about the main villain and then there is a scene where they all horrified when they discover that the villain was an atheist, and treat it like it's a reason enough to understand why he is being an asshole and trying to kill them.

Other than that, there are of course classics like Narnia.
Needless to say, atheistic arguments are often distorted, especially starting from the fourth book of the series.

[e_space]

yawn ... you are a true fundy who has no interest in responding to the comments of others, and seem to be coming here only to preach ... typical xtian, diverting to standard rhetoric when they don't have an answer to a simple question ... if you don't want to debate, don't come here ... just a suggestion ;-^)

[Loopflanger]

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:53:09 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

Get to the basics. Something's happened to the biosphere. Life is no longer sustainable. The survivors are in a city sized shelter. Maintaining the biosphere within the shelter-city is going to be the number one priority. So, since you're calling it "Heat Death",  where's the most "heat"? Inside or out? You mentioned rioting.  Are the majority subjected to adverse rationing, for instance? Are the majority shoved in the least amount of space while the affluent have the best conditions? What's the objective of the corporation/consortium? Are they planning to escape into space? Are they planning on taking *everyone* ? & wouldn't that be obvious to everyone? Real terror is knowing what's happening & not having the immediate means to stop it.  Under these circumstances,  who's going to indulge in theology? It's not likely. That doesn't mean that people wouldn't have religious views. It just means they're going to have more immediate concerns.

[Dingbat]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 5:27:52 PM UTC-4, Les wrote:

We all die because we have all sinned.

This would mean that babies that die soon after childbirth die because they sinned. Name one sin a baby can commit.

[Les]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:29:05 PM UTC+8, Loopflanger wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:53:09 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

Thanks Loopflanger you have given me some good ideas there.

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

Get to the basics. Something's happened to the biosphere. Life is no longer sustainable. The survivors are in a city sized shelter. Maintaining the biosphere within the shelter-city is going to be the number one priority. So, since you're calling it "Heat Death",  where's the most "heat"? Inside or out?

The title Heat Death is linked to several themes

Civilization (outside of the shelter) has died because of the Heat.

A main character is found dead (in the heat) outside of the shelter.

And it is a vague allusion to any life ending event (e.g. the Heat Death of the Universe) thought the heat death of the universe itself is to far away for most people to think or care about.

You mentioned rioting. 

The rioting happens worldwide just after the solar storm

 

Are the majority subjected to adverse rationing, for instance? Are the majority shoved in the least amount of space while the affluent have the best conditions?

There is a definite favoritism for the elite especially members of the consortium.

 

What's the objective of the corporation/consortium?

Save themselves first then as much life as possible  

Are they planning to escape into space? Are they planning on taking *everyone* ? & wouldn't that be obvious to everyone? Real terror is knowing what's happening & not having the immediate means to stop it. 

That's a good idea, I hadn't planned on emphasizing that but that could be a good source of tension.

 

Under these circumstances,  who's going to indulge in theology? It's not likely. That doesn't mean that people wouldn't have religious views. It just means they're going to have more immediate concerns.

 I for one would if I was in that situation but in general you are probably right. I was not planning on having too much dialogue on that theme, just enough to establish the motivations and world view of the characters.

[random]

I disagree.
All around them the streets should be full with "the end is near" signs and prophets urging people that this is their last chance to repent,  death cults should rise saying that this is a punishment from God and therefore should not even TRY to escape it, some will believe the rapture is near or that it already happened.
All this will happen BECAUSE there is little hope and a lot of confusion.

I'm not saying everyone will be pulled into it, the main characters especially will more likely be focused on reality just like you said, but the background around them should be obvious, and will be enough to maybe pull them into a discussion or two of the subject while they do or wait for something else.

[e_space]

i noticed you avoided my question yet again ... do you find this convenient? 

[Les]

Hi e_space let's get one thing straight. I am NOT the kind of guy who gets on a bus full of people with a backpack loaded with C4 yelling "God is great".

My backpack usually contains a laptop. :)

e_space I think it would help if you knew that I come to this group about once every year until someone starts to heckle me then I go away a sulk for another year, I have been coming to this group for years, so I am well aware of how things go here.

I am also well aware that most of the participants have already made up there minds.

Are you aware that there are lurkers on this group or that topics are searchable on Google?

Try searching for "Representation of atheists in Christian fiction" (AvC was the top result when I tried).

So just how are tsunami relevant if we all die anyway?

What's to debate if you don't like my explanation?

[e_space]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:50:17 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi e_space let's get one thing straight. I am NOT the kind of guy who gets on a bus full of people with a backpack loaded with C4 yelling "God is great".

My backpack usually contains a laptop. :)

e_space I think it would help if you knew that I come to this group about once every year until someone starts to heckle me then I go away a sulk for another year, I have been coming to this group for years, so I am well aware of how things go here.

I am also well aware that most of the participants have already made up there minds.

Are you aware that there are lurkers on this group or that topics are searchable on Google?

Try searching for "Representation of atheists in Christian fiction" (AvC was the top result when I tried).

So just how are tsunami relevant if we all die anyway?

What's to debate if you don't like my explanation?

you haven't made an explanation at all ... you stated that 'god' blessed earth by 'making' a solar flare miss earth, but you have not explained why, if 'he' truly has this ability, he did not stop a tsunami for killing 230 thousand people ... i know you can't answer the question, which begs another question ... why do you make silly statements about the solar flare theory, if you can't back it up?  

[Les]

You're free to ignore me if you don't like my explanations

[klytu]

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

 

 I have a 5 Chapter sample pdf can be downloaded here for anyone interested.

 

http://leslieey.com/blog/heat-death

 

Klytu: Interesting concept for a novel; really enjoyed the excerpt on your blog. As to your questions, my answers are exactly the same as Lawrey's. I'm curious as to what you think atheists might take offense in your novel? 

As to the storyline, I think it taps into issues that are on many peoples' minds within the U.S. - just look at the popularity of various zombie apocalypse novels and movies and shows like "Doomsday Preppers". IMHO what separates good novels from so-so ones is character development, research, and of course writing style. It would definitely benefit you to look up studies concerning actual solar flares, their impacts, and what has been done to safeguard against them - this will help give credibility to the set-up. I also think you might want to consider making the Consortium's status more ambiguous rather than a clear-cut villain. 

[e_space]

i haven't received any explanations ... THAT is the issue ... if you want to keep avoiding the question, i certainly will ignore you ... this is a debate forum, not a dais for preaching sermons ... 

[Loopflanger]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:02:49 AM UTC-7, random wrote:

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:29:05 AM UTC+2, Loopflanger wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:53:09 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

Get to the basics. Something's happened to the biosphere. Life is no longer sustainable. The survivors are in a city sized shelter. Maintaining the biosphere within the shelter-city is going to be the number one priority. So, since you're calling it "Heat Death",  where's the most "heat"? Inside or out? You mentioned rioting.  Are the majority subjected to adverse rationing, for instance? Are the majority shoved in the least amount of space while the affluent have the best conditions? What's the objective of the corporation/consortium? Are they planning to escape into space? Are they planning on taking *everyone* ? & wouldn't that be obvious to everyone? Real terror is knowing what's happening & not having the immediate means to stop it.  Under these circumstances,  who's going to indulge in theology? It's not likely. That doesn't mean that people wouldn't have religious views. It just means they're going to have more immediate concerns.

I disagree.
All around them the streets should be full with "the end is near" signs and prophets urging people that this is their last chance to repent,  death cults should rise saying that this is a punishment from God and therefore should not even TRY to escape it, some will believe the rapture is near or that it already happened.
All this will happen BECAUSE there is little hope and a lot of confusion.

You underestimate people's will to live. While there are those who will give up,  the people who aren't going to aren't going to put up with those who give in to nihilism. There is no doubt that there is an end times mentality out there but what and/or who does it really represent? The people who are looking backwards,  can't accept the development of a global culture with all its diversity,  can't accept the end of the American empire, & so on.


 

I'm not saying everyone will be pulled into it, the main characters especially will more likely be focused on reality just like you said, but the background around them should be obvious, and will be enough to maybe pull them into a discussion or two of the subject while they do or wait for something else.

I doubt that people inside the shelter are going to be caught up in the kind of end times mentality you describe. Their more immediate concern is going to be the Consortium. How much democracy you think is going to exist under these circumstances? & nobody's going to be sitting around waiting for shit. Everybody's got to work to keep the thing going,  & this is a situation ripe for people being exploited & taken advantaged of. & then what about other possible shelters out there? Some might have things the others want. Yeah, that's right.  Battles against & alliances with other shelter-cities. 
 

[Loopflanger]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:36:53 PM UTC-7, Les wrote:

The title Heat Death is linked to several themes

Civilization (outside of the shelter) has died because of the Heat.

There could be other shelters & habitats. So, there's opportunities for cooperation & competition there, that is,  opportunities for conflict.


 

A main character is found dead (in the heat) outside of the shelter.

How is a dead man at the beginning of the story end up being a main character? Planning on resurrecting him or something? (OTOH,  that's not a bad idea if you were,  depending on how you finesse that.)



 

And it is a vague allusion to any life ending event (e.g. the Heat Death of the Universe) thought the heat death of the universe itself is to far away for most people to think or care about.

What? No plans on re-terraforming the earth? No plans for genetic engineering people to become more impervious to radiation? If you want people talking about stuff, there's plenty of stuff for them to talk about. The end of one thing is the beginning of another. & what about aliens? Maybe they might show up & help,  with strings attached, of course.
(In the Star Trek Universe,  Vulcans showed up when the Earthlings got the means to start showing up unannounced in other people's neighborhoods. That was likely one of their main concerns even if they didn't come out & say it.  OTOH,  in your story,  somebody might see things going bad on earth & surmising this as an opportunity in disguise ...  for them.)

 

You mentioned rioting. 

The rioting happens worldwide just after the solar storm

What were they rioting about? The sudden rising cost of sunscreen? (Just want you to think about what the rioting was about & what's the significance of it  for your story.)
 

 

Are the majority subjected to adverse rationing, for instance? Are the majority shoved in the least amount of space while the affluent have the best conditions?

There is a definite favoritism for the elite especially members of the consortium.

Aren't the elite & the consortium, one in the same? Or is the elite in general the technocrats? But no elite can exist by itself. They can't exist without the support of  the base which happens to consist of everybody else. Elites don't like people to be conscious of that fact. 


 

 

What's the objective of the corporation/consortium?

Save themselves first then as much life as possible

In order for them to do the former they have to do the latter but they're caught in the contradiction of maintaining their power over others & needing others to maintain that power. So who's in the elite & who is actually running things are not necessarily the same thing. Part of the elite are just the section of people who have bought in to the power arrangement & have allied themselves with the people who maintain a dominance over everybody else. That's a shaky alliance since no doubt the conditions of people at the bottom of the base are going to be horrendous. Who is going to have to go outside into the heat death & mine the raw material to keep the shelter-city going? It ain't going to be the elite. And if they lose too many people to radiation sickness,  then the lower echelons of the elite are going to have to do the dirty job that was previously for the "trogs".


 

[Les]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:35:16 PM UTC+8, klytu wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

 

 I have a 5 Chapter sample pdf can be downloaded here for anyone interested.

 

http://leslieey.com/blog/heat-death

 

Thanks Klytu  

Klytu: Interesting concept for a novel; really enjoyed the excerpt on your blog. As to your questions, my answers are exactly the same as Lawrey's. I'm curious as to what you think atheists might take offense in your novel? 

 

Some might take the involvement of scientists in the project as an attack on science especially climate change issues. But I'm hoping that I can present a positive message that encourages people to look after the planet without being obsessive about it.  

 

As to the storyline, I think it taps into issues that are on many peoples' minds within the U.S. - just look at the popularity of various zombie apocalypse novels and movies and shows like "Doomsday Preppers". IMHO what separates good novels from so-so ones is character development, research, and of course writing style. It would definitely benefit you to look up studies concerning actual solar flares, their impacts, and what has been done to safeguard against them - this will help give credibility to the set-up. I also think you might want to consider making the Consortium's status more ambiguous rather than a clear-cut villain. 

One guy from NASA does not seem too worried about solar storms but some people think that a massive one could take out the power grid.

All good advice.

Thanks

[Les]

Firstly, I'm not here for a debate so much as a discussion. I don't believe that I can force people to believe what they don't want to believe. But I can interact with people and pray for them and wish them the best.

"Why does God spare us from a massive solar flare and allow a Tsunami to wipe out 100s?"

Short answer is I don't know everything and I don't claim to. God has a mind of His own and does not owe me an explanation for anything. I'm just a regular garden variety programmer with an interest in discussing faith issues. 

Now if you want me to admit that there is something inconsistent in believing that God can allow bad things sometimes and protect us from other bad things then you are going to be disappointed. 

To go right into why I think there is no issue there I would have to get into a theological debate about judgement. But since you are not interested in a theological answer to a theological question then there is nothing more for me to say. 

So if you think that I am here for a debate then go right ahead a score one up for yourself. But if you think you have rocked my faith in God then you should realize that I have been thinking about such issues for over 30 years. You could just as easily convince me that my wife is a bank robber as convince that God can't be trusted. 

God bless you, have a nice life. 

[Les]

Thanks Loopflanger, I enjoyed you thoughts. I can't comment too much without giving the plot away.

There is a novel already out called "Wool" by Hugh Howey that I think you would find interesting. (Without giving too much away -the twists start within the first few chapters and continue through a 3 book series)

"Wool" is a very similar concept to mine. I would list the differences but that would spoil the book for anyone who hasn't read it.

There are two that I can list without giving too much away.

1. Wool takes place in the distant future whereas my book is set in the near future.

2. Wool is a multistory underground silo Heat Death takes place in a network of tunnels and caverns.

[e_space]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:00:22 PM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Firstly, I'm not here for a debate so much as a discussion. I don't believe that I can force people to believe what they don't want to believe. But I can interact with people and pray for them and wish them the best.

"Why does God spare us from a massive solar flare and allow a Tsunami to wipe out 100s?"

Short answer is I don't know everything and I don't claim to. God has a mind of His own and does not owe me an explanation for anything. I'm just a regular garden variety programmer with an interest in discussing faith issues. 

the chance of that happening is slim to none ... i suggest a xtian website, or endure the anguish that shalt surely be bestowed upon thee if thou stayeth ...   

Now if you want me to admit that there is something inconsistent in believing that God can allow bad things sometimes and protect us from other bad things then you are going to be disappointed. 

To go right into why I think there is no issue there I would have to get into a theological debate about judgement. But since you are not interested in a theological answer to a theological question then there is nothing more for me to say. 

theology's relationship with religion is as separate and remote as philosophy is to voodoo worship ... nary the twain shall meet ... 

So if you think that I am here for a debate then go right ahead a score one up for yourself. But if you think you have rocked my faith in God then you should realize that I have been thinking about such issues for over 30 years. You could just as easily convince me that my wife is a bank robber as convince that God can't be trusted. 

blog = debate (google it) ... 

your trust is 'god' is so blind that you did not even attempt to answer the question ... and btw, how do you know your wife isn't a bank robber? keep a pretty close eye on her do you? 

i'm not trying to convince you to dump your religion ... could care less actually, and could tell from your first post that you were a fundy, here to preach the sunday school words echoing around in your head ... 

but son, i TRULY suggest that you mosey along because you are going to get put on the cross around here ... i'm gentle compared what is heading your way ... just sayin'

[Loopflanger]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:00:47 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

There is a novel already out called "Wool" by Hugh Howey ...

Check out "The Lost Ones"  by Samuel Beckett. You'll be doing yourself a really big favor.  It's a short read.  (You might have to buy it or check it out a library because there doesn't seem to be any free downloads for this.) [ I'm not opposed to big sprawling novelistic extravaganzas but if it lacks focus, & concentration,  it's a big sprawling mess.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Ones_%28Beckett%29


If you're concocting some kind of end-times story over there,  you might consider the inherent nihilism in that. The human species has faced extinction before in the past. So,  your particular use of religion here wouldn't  necessarily be evidently a  positive thing. (Since,  a religion that enforces the notion that people should give up in the face of supposedly insurmountable odds to focus on the ethereal is basically a religion saying that life is pointless,  & therefore it's nihilistic.).

I know you're signifying "Christian fiction" here,  so consider what kind of Christianity you're promoting. Consider more positive expressions of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology



 

[Trance Gemini]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Les <lesl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks TG

I will have to check Revolution out.

It's a fascinating show. There's also another new series starting on this theme but I don't recall the name. I'll post it here if I remember or see it advertised again.

 

Do you know that NASA was funding the only Near earth object survey in the southern hemisphere and they were talking about withdrawing support?

(It could be closed down right now.)

That would be quite a shame.

 

Good luck with your novel

Thx. It's going to be a few months down the road before I'm done but I have a published author as a mentor so that's helped enormously.

http://books.kittyhundal.com

There are some preview chapters there.

--

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Evil Anagrams Division

[Trance Gemini]

Oh My. The E_Space 'god' is telling yet another Christian to leave.

First of all, Les has been in this group longer than you. He's been here longer than me and he's always welcome here and will always be welcome to stay for as long as he wishes.

This group is for Christians and atheists. We have one of each as an Owner.

If you don't like Christians being here then I suggest you 'mosey along'. All you've ever contributed to this group is harassment, insults and disruption.

Les contributes intellect.

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[Timbo]

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

First of all, you need to change that title. That is a complete no go/turn off. Suggest making the title relate to the exact point/points you are wishing your audience to see, rather than the tragic event itself.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

I don't understand how  the mega rich businessmen would be concerned about money while "rise in temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization." Money no longer has worth nor is there such as rich businessmen. There are only two controlling powers left, that of intelligence and brute force.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive? 

Atheist might find it offensive if you have the agnostic killing himself to find the truth about the Abrahamic god in which atheist already know from where it came. 

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

Absolutely not. Rather the city should be left to it's own demise as to rather quickly bring about the importance of social humans working towards goals. There is no reason to think these people left would have dishonest or immoral agenda once all inequalities have been wiped out. 

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about? 

I don't know enough about solar flares in regard to chance percentages. No I am never concerned about things that I cannot prevent. I only deal with reality the best I can as it comes and goes.

[e_space]

ah, my personal stalker is back ... sure missed ya' ... 

btw, i didn't 'tell' him to leave ... he stated he wasn't here for debate? maybe you should read what i responded to before blathering your nonsense ... just a suggestion  ;-^)

me insulting? that is your reputation my dear, and you hate me because i reflect your pathetic treatment of others back in your face ... shrug ... surely you don't want me to post the full list of your insulting sign-offs, which included the word 'retard' ... i'm glad you've moved past that finally ... now you are just an inciter of mange, whipping people with a CatONine Tails, and subverting the words of your minions ... anyway, congratulations on your astonishing achievements ... ;-^)

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[Timbo]

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

 

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive?

 

2. Should such a city be under martial law (i.e. non-democratic) in such an event?

 

3. Is it plausible that a massive solar flare could disrupt civilization and is it something you worry about?

 

 I have a 5 Chapter sample pdf can be downloaded here for anyone interested.

 

http://leslieey.com/blog/heat-death

I read your sample and liked it. Especially liked the red stickers for flowers. "David's Last Seattle"

 

[Les]

On Friday, November 1, 2013 2:49:25 PM UTC+8, Loopflanger wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:00:47 AM UTC-7, Les wrote:

There is a novel already out called "Wool" by Hugh Howey ...

Check out "The Lost Ones"  by Samuel Beckett. You'll be doing yourself a really big favor.  It's a short read.  (You might have to buy it or check it out a library because there doesn't seem to be any free downloads for this.) [ I'm not opposed to big sprawling novelistic extravaganzas but if it lacks focus, & concentration,  it's a big sprawling mess.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Ones_%28Beckett%29


If you're concocting some kind of end-times story over there,  you might consider the inherent nihilism in that. The human species has faced extinction before in the past. So,  your particular use of religion here wouldn't  necessarily be evidently a  positive thing. (Since,  a religion that enforces the notion that people should give up in the face of supposedly insurmountable odds to focus on the ethereal is basically a religion saying that life is pointless,  & therefore it's nihilistic.).

I know you're signifying "Christian fiction" here,  so consider what kind of Christianity you're promoting. Consider more positive expressions of this:

I don't consider myself to be nihilistic. Life is not pointless. I am looking forward to the ultimate future but I think that we should make the most of each day  in the present. That's not to say that I think that everything will be rosy in the mean time but I think you can see tough times as a challenge that can make you better. (e.g. What ever does not kill you makes you stronger).  

[Les]

Thanks Timbo

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 12:20:19 PM UTC+8, Timbo wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Les wrote:

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a novel called Heat Death and I would love to hear some of your thoughts.

First of all, you need to change that title. That is a complete no go/turn off. Suggest making the title relate to the exact point/points you are wishing your audience to see, rather than the tragic event itself.

I have to admit I am kind of attached to the title and AFAIK it has not been used before. (Maybe that should be telling me something). 

I might discuss it with my mentor though

 

The premise of the novel is that a massive solar flare wipes out satellites and other communication systems. (No electronics outside of a Faraday cage are working) Consequently all the Nuclear power stations go through melt down and radiation levels become unsafe, uncontrolled rioting and then an unexplained sudden rise in outside temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization.  

 

The story centers on to brothers, David, a new Christian, and Simon, his agnostic brother.

David is found dead and Simon tries to find out why. The villains in this story are a group of guys who own/run "The Biopreserve Consortium" (Think city sized fallout shelter version of Noah's Ark.) 

A group of scientists helps the Consortium run and plan things. 

 

My plan is to write Simon as an agnostic (who does not really think too much about religion and does not really care, e.g. he is happy for David so long as he keeps his beliefs to himself). I don't plan to focus (explicitly) on the religious beliefs (or lack of belief) of the scientists. The Consortium are mega rich businessmen who care much more about money (and their own survival) than philosophy.

I don't understand how  the mega rich businessmen would be concerned about money while "rise in temperatures, all effectively wipe out civilization." Money no longer has worth nor is there such as rich businessmen. There are only two controlling powers left, that of intelligence and brute force.

 

 

I still think of them as being rich in the sense that they are part of the elite.

I think that some kind of money would still be used, there will still be workers who need incentive beyond mere survival. Did you know that US government used to have 1 billion dollars buried in a volt in case there was a major disaster? (They probably still do).  

I also think that if it were a real situation that these businessmen would need to have systems in place to guarantee their continued control.

e.g. Hitler divided his security forces and had them competing against each other so that no individual security force could easily stage a coup.

(That did not stop people trying though).

I have some other ideas as well but I don't want to give too much away.

  

So my questions are.

 

1. Would atheist find the above approach offensive? 

Atheist might find it offensive if you have the agnostic killing himself to find the truth about the Abrahamic god in which atheist already know from where it came. 

 No I will not have the agnostic killing himself. I think I will just present him as being more open to faith issues at the end of the novel but let the reader decide what he would have concluded.  

[Les]

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:08:33 AM UTC+8, Trance Gemini wrote:

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Les <lesl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks TG

I will have to check Revolution out.

It's a fascinating show. There's also another new series starting on this theme but I don't recall the name. I'll post it here if I remember or see it advertised again.

Thanks TG

I found it on iTunes. I had to track down a spoiler page so that I did not feel the urge to watch the whole series in a week. I'm still hooked in spite of that. I'm not sure about some of the dialog, some of it seems over dramatic (I should be used to that though since my wife watches Filipino soaps every night) but still a fascinating series. 

 

Do you know that NASA was funding the only Near earth object survey in the southern hemisphere and they were talking about withdrawing support?

(It could be closed down right now.)

That would be quite a shame.

 

Good luck with your novel

Thx. It's going to be a few months down the road before I'm done but I have a published author as a mentor so that's helped enormously.

 

Yep, It all seems so easy until you try and you don't know what you don't know until someone gives you a few pointers.

I'm using an editor. (I've given up trying to fix my grammar,I think I'm becoming lexdepsic as I'm getting older). 

http://books.kittyhundal.com

There are some preview chapters there.

I'll check it out. Let me know when your book is done.  

[Loopflanger]

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:33:26 AM UTC-8, Les wrote:

I am looking forward to the ultimate future

But that's inherently nihilistic. You're basically saying you're looking forward to death. It's just an observation, OK?





 

but I think that we should make the most of each day  in the present. That's not to say that I think that everything will be rosy in the mean time but I think you can see tough times as a challenge that can make you better. (e.g. What ever does not kill you makes you stronger).  

When the house is on fire & you're running for your life,  you're not thinking, "this is all to make me better".  You're thinking,  "what's the next move?"  Consider Post Traumatic Stress. Whatever didn't kill you left it's mark. I'm not saying that people don't find hidden strengths when confronted with tribulations but the tribulations are not there to make somebody better. When the drone strikes the intent is to kill people, right? & if it doesn't,  how is being maimed make you better? All that requires recovery. "Better" under those circumstances means reconciling to some drastic change and learning how to move on. So,  you may be committed to your particular metaphysical view,  but if you want to make stronger fiction,  you got to be realer in it.



 

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:32 AM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

ah, my personal stalker is back ... sure missed ya' ... 

btw, i didn't 'tell' him to leave

E_Space:

"but son, i TRULY suggest that you mosey along"

The only who should 'mosey along' is lying  tards like you who contribute nothing but ignorance here.

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Les <lesl...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:08:33 AM UTC+8, Trance Gemini wrote:

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Les <lesl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks TG

I will have to check Revolution out.

It's a fascinating show. There's also another new series starting on this theme but I don't recall the name. I'll post it here if I remember or see it advertised again.

Thanks TG

I found it on iTunes. I had to track down a spoiler page so that I did not feel the urge to watch the whole series in a week. I'm still hooked in spite of that. I'm not sure about some of the dialog, some of it seems over dramatic (I should be used to that though since my wife watches Filipino soaps every night) but still a fascinating series. 

 

Do you know that NASA was funding the only Near earth object survey in the southern hemisphere and they were talking about withdrawing support?

(It could be closed down right now.)

That would be quite a shame.

 

Good luck with your novel

Thx. It's going to be a few months down the road before I'm done but I have a published author as a mentor so that's helped enormously.

 

Yep, It all seems so easy until you try and you don't know what you don't know until someone gives you a few pointers.

I'm using an editor. (I've given up trying to fix my grammar,I think I'm becoming lexdepsic as I'm getting older). 

http://books.kittyhundal.com

There are some preview chapters there.

I'll check it out. Let me know when your book is done.  

Cool. Will do. I've downloaded yours now and will try to read it in the next few days.

Stick around for a while and don't let the tards frustrate you too much. Lol.

[e_space]

'telling' and 'suggesting' are 2 entirely different things ... i truly don't anticipate that you would understand since you are too busy whipping people and spreading diseases ... btw, you didn't give me the URL of your dominatrix site ... did you forget? 

still using the a descriptor of a horrible affliction to spread your hatred i see ... you make light out of the hardships of others without a care in the world that you may be hurting the feelings of those associated with the disease ... you don't have many scruples, do you? ... quite pathetic germami ... tsk tsk 

[Trance Gemini]

Only in the mind of a tard is there a difference: "but son, i TRULY suggest that you mosey along"

I strongly suggest you mosey your ass on out of here.

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[e_space]

out of meds are ya? 

On Monday, November 4, 2013 5:32:28 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

Only in the mind of a tard is there a difference: "but son, i TRULY suggest that you mosey along"

I strongly suggest you mosey your ass on out of here.

On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 3:10 PM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

'telling' and 'suggesting' are 2 entirely different things ... i truly don't anticipate that you would understand since you are too busy whipping people and spreading diseases ... btw, you didn't give me the URL of your dominatrix site ... did you forget? 

still using the a descriptor of a horrible affliction to spread your hatred i see ... you make light out of the hardships of others without a care in the world that you may be hurting the feelings of those associated with the disease ... you don't have many scruples, do you? ... quite pathetic germami ... tsk tsk 

On Monday, November 4, 2013 2:57:09 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:32 AM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

ah, my personal stalker is back ... sure missed ya' ... 

btw, i didn't 'tell' him to leave

E_Space:

"but son, i TRULY suggest that you mosey along"

The only who should 'mosey along' is lying  tards like you who contribute nothing but ignorance here.

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[Trance Gemini]

Sad that the Tard has to resort to lies in an effort to defame rather than actually engage anyone in an intelligent debate.

If you weren't such a bitch I might feel sorry for you.

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[e_space]

ah well ... i do have good conversations with others, but if i'm looking for intelligent interaction, your direction would be the last option ... btw, you seem to be the bitch, since you are the one that can't seem to get along with anyone ... 

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Trance Gemini
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[Trance Gemini]

Yes for a short time. It doesn't usually take very long before your real full on retard personality jumps out to bite them in the ass. Pretty much everyone on this site has been treated to your personal nastiness.

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[e_space]

lol ... yet, other than the xtians who disagree with my opinion about their beliefs, you are the only one that i have a problem with, not that its a real problem, since i don't give a fuck what you 'think' about me, and i simply reflect your bitchiness back at yourself ... and you don't like it much, do you? your obsession with me is rather cute actually, if one doesn't consider the source ... ;-^)

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Trance Gemini
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[Trance Gemini]

Hahahahahaha. You are joking aren't you? No I don't think you are. You just love to constantly rewrite your own history.

Banned from every group you joined except this one and only because we tolerate shits like you.

The list of people that have demanded at one time or another that you be banned from this group covers most of the posters here.

Keep your obnoxious, shitty attitude to yourself and out of other people's faces.

We don't appreciate it here and I will call you on it.

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[e_space]

yawnzzzzzzzzz ... sure, whatever ... ;-^)

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[Ian Betts]

Now, now children fight nicely

On 11/11/13, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yawnzzzzzzzzz ... sure, whatever ... ;-^)
>
> On Monday, November 11, 2013 5:06:17 AM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:
>>
>> Hahahahahaha. You are joking aren't you? No I don't think you are. You
>> just love to constantly rewrite your own history.
>>
>> Banned from every group you joined except this one and only because we
>> tolerate shits like you.
>>
>> The list of people that have demanded at one time or another that you be
>> banned from this group covers most of the posters here.
>>
>> Keep your obnoxious, shitty attitude to yourself and out of other people's
>>
>> faces.
>>
>> We don't appreciate it here and I will call you on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:25 AM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com

>> <javascript:>>wrote:

>>>>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>> atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
>>>>>>> /atheism-vs-christianity.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/f4671ab8-0548-4f92-aa9a-9828d642
>>>>>>> 8ee8%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>>> Chairperson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>

>>>>> an email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

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>>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/15f755a6-f641-4b29-a44e-
>>>>> 100991847084%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>> Chairperson
>>>>
>>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
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>>>>
>>>> --
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>>> .

>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Trance Gemini
>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>> Chairperson
>>
>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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>>
>>
>
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--

Ian

[Trance Gemini]

Now mosey along. Lol. 

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[Trance Gemini]

Fuck off you ignorant Tard.

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[e_space]

lol ... easily lathered up aren't we? hahaha  ... why don't you take your panties out of a knot ... you might breath easier ... ;-^)

>>>>>>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>> .
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>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/f4671ab8-0548-4f92-aa9a-9828d642
>>>>>>> 8ee8%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>>> Chairperson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>

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>>>>> 100991847084%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>> Chairperson
>>>>
>>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
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>>>>
>>>>   --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Trance Gemini
>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
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>> Chairperson
>>
>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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>>
>>
>
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[Trance Gemini]

Why don't you mosey on along now Tard.

Since you think it's ok for you to demand that others do it.

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[e_space]

;-^)

>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>> atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>>>>> /atheism-vs-christianity.
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>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/f4671ab8-0548-4f92-aa9a-9828d642
>>>>>>> 8ee8%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>>> Chairperson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   --
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>>>>> 100991847084%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>> Chairperson
>>>>
>>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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>>>>
>>>>   --
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>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Trance Gemini
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>> Chairperson
>>
>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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>>
>>
>
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[Ian Betts]

e-space leave her alone she like calling people names it her pastime.

On 11/12/13, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ;-^)
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:24:42 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:
>>
>> Why don't you mosey on along now Tard.
>>
>> Since you think it's ok for you to demand that others do it.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM, e_space

>> <espac...@gmail.com<javascript:>

>>>>> >>>>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com

>>>>> >>>>>>> .
>>>>> >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>> >>>>>>> atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
>>>>> >>>>>>> /atheism-vs-christianity.
>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>> >>>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/f4671ab8-0548-4f92-aa9a-9828d642
>>>>> >>>>>>> 8ee8%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/
>>>>> groups/opt_out.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>

>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>> >>>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>> >>>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>> >>>>>> Chairperson
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>> >>>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>> >>>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>> >>>>> Google
>>>>> >>>>> Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> send
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> an email to

>>>>> >>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to
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>>>>> com.

>>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
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>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>> >>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/15f755a6-f641-4b29-a44e-
>>>>> >>>>> 100991847084%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit
>>>>> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>> >>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>> >>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>> >>>> Chairperson
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>> >>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>> >>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> Groups
>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> send an
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> email to

>>>>> >>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>

>>>>> > email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
>>>>> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
>>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/

>>>>> b000b0bd-8c21-49f2-9062-89ecf949a529%40googlegroups.com.

>>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/

>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/CAOa%3DnyPm%
>>>>> 3DtgLS7Svu3b98khN87PiHvMpccq8CUx7-ZLNy-zNMQ%40mail.gmail.com.

>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>> Chairperson
>>>>
>>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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>>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Trance Gemini
>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>> Chairperson
>>
>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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[e_space]

sorry, i don't take orders ... i know what she is like and i have been dishing her hatred back at her for a long time now ... she is obsessed with me, so i am just keeping her need fulfilled ... don't worry about it ... consider it charity work on my part  ;-^) 

>>>>> >>>>>>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com

>>>>> >>>>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> >>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>

>>>>> > email to atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
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>>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
>>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/
>>>>> b000b0bd-8c21-49f2-9062-89ecf949a529%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>> an email to atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

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>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
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>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/CAOa%3DnyPm%
>>>>> 3DtgLS7Svu3b98khN87PiHvMpccq8CUx7-ZLNy-zNMQ%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>> Chairperson
>>>>
>>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>
>>>>   --
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>>> .
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Trance Gemini
>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>> Chairperson
>>
>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
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>>
>>
>
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[Ian Betts]

In my view she it almost as bad as TC

On 11/14/13, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sorry, i don't take orders ... i know what she is like and i have been
> dishing her hatred back at her for a long time now ... she is obsessed with
>
> me, so i am just keeping her need fulfilled ... don't worry about it ...
> consider it charity work on my part ;-^)
>
> On Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:25:19 AM UTC-5, Ian wrote:
>>
>> e-space leave her alone she like calling people names it her pastime.
>>

>> >>>>> >>>>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>

>> >>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>> >>>>>>> .
>> >>>>> >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to

>> >>>>> >>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>
>> >>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to

>> >>>>> >>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:><javascript:>

>> >>>>> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>> >>>>> >
>>
>> >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to

>> >>>>> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
>> >>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>> >>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/
>> >>>>> b000b0bd-8c21-49f2-9062-89ecf949a529%40googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Ian
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>>> Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> an email to

>> >>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>>
>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to

>> >>>>> atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
>> >>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/
>> >>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/CAOa%3DnyPm%
>> >>>>> 3DtgLS7Svu3b98khN87PiHvMpccq8CUx7-ZLNy-zNMQ%40mail.gmail.com.
>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Trance Gemini
>> >>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>> >>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>> >>>> Chairperson
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>> >>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>> >>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
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>> Groups
>> >>>
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>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> >>>
>> an
>> >>>
>> >>> email to

>> >>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com
>> >>> <javascript:><javascript:>

>> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>>
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> > Visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/ce6c316f-fa21-43bd-88cc-e7c4e9101a31%40googlegroups.com.
>>
>>
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>

> --
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[e_space]

actually, she is worse ... whereas TC is just a raving madman, germami is a vindictive obsessive troll who vigorously tries to turn people against her chosen victim, and i seem to be her fav ... you might be able to tell a bit about her 'personality' by her sign off, you know, the whips, spreading of disease, continuous reference to a horrible affliction with no care in the world about who she may hurt ... she LIKES to hurt others, whereas TC's pain seems to be internal ... hard to blame germami though, as she most likely had some very dramatic events in her earlier life that has permanently soured her against life in general ... ah well, as far as i'm concerned she is a harmless troll that i waste a bit of time with ... ;-^) 

>> >>>>> >>>>>>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>

>> >>>>> >>>>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>> >>>>> >>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com<javascript:><javascript:>

>> >>>>> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.

>> >>>>> >
>>
>> >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> >>>>> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
>> >>>>> group/atheism-vs-christianity.
>> >>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/
>> >>>>> b000b0bd-8c21-49f2-9062-89ecf949a529%40googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Ian
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
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>> send
>> >>>>>
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>>
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>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
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>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/
>> >>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/CAOa%3DnyPm%
>> >>>>> 3DtgLS7Svu3b98khN87PiHvMpccq8CUx7-ZLNy-zNMQ%40mail.gmail.com.
>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Trance Gemini
>> >>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>> >>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>> >>>> Chairperson
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>> >>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>> >>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>> >>>>
>> >>>>   --
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>> >>>
>> an
>> >>>
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>> >>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsub...@googlegroups.com

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>>
>> > To post to this group, send email to
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity.
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>> >
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>>
>>
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>
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[Trance Gemini]

I love to be hated by Tards.

Their real problem is the fact that I call them on their Tard behavior and they don't like being exposed and held up to ridicule.

The solution, of course, is for them to stop being Tards but if they were that smart they wouldn't be Tards in the first place.

So, what is a girl to do. <sigh>

O-O

[e_space]

copying and pasting now eh? lol ... how pathetic, even for you, which is saying a LOT! ;-^)

[Trance Gemini]

At least I have something rational to say unlike you Tards who can't put two words together rationally whether it's copy/paste or not.

It's your irrationality and inability to engage rationally that's pathetic and lame but I learned a long time ago that Tards like you are incapable of seeing yourselves as you really are. You work so hard at fostering your delusion about yourselves and making it believable that you start to believe it yourselves.

Rather sick.

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[e_space]

ah well, you are right that i don't engage rationally with trolls, such as yourself ... rather impossible really ... however, i do enjoy good conversations with those who do not simply come here to spread their hate, mange, and insensitive use of derogatory terminology, and any decent person would not use ... google 'decent' sometime ... its not a bad trait ... you actually may get to like it if you practice it for a millennium or two ... ;-^)

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:04:50 AM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

At least I have something rational to say unlike you Tards who can't put two words together rationally whether it's copy/paste or not.

It's your irrationality and inability to engage rationally that's pathetic and lame but I learned a long time ago that Tards like you are incapable of seeing yourselves as you really are. You work so hard at fostering your delusion about yourselves and making it believable that you start to believe it yourselves.

Rather sick.

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

copying and pasting now eh? lol ... how pathetic, even for you, which is saying a LOT! ;-^)

On Saturday, November 16, 2013 8:05:15 AM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

I love to be hated by Tards.

Their real problem is the fact that I call them on their Tard behavior and they don't like being exposed and held up to ridicule.

The solution, of course, is for them to stop being Tards but if they were that smart they wouldn't be Tards in the first place.

So, what is a girl to do. <sigh>

O-O

--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
Chairperson

Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
Evil Anagrams Division

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[Trance Gemini]

You don't engage rationally with anyone.

You *sound* a little more rational when you interact with Ian though I'll give you that.

You can play the con for a bit but I have enough experience with you to know it won't take long before any brown-nosing little love affair you start falls apart because of your own paranoia and hair-trigger over-sensitive personality which will lead to the inevitable temper tantrum and abuse.

LOL.

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[e_space]

lol ... smoking lsd again are you? hahaha

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--

Trance Gemini
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
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Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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[Trance Gemini]

Do you enjoy continuously proving to us precisely how stupid you are?

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[e_space]

only with you my dear ... ;-^)

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--

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EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
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Agent 000777136669854321.  Mange Inciter. Special Services.
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[Ian Betts]

E-space you will never stop her sending nasty reply's when she cannot
win her point.

On 11/19/13, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> only with you my dear ... ;-^)
>
> On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:46:49 AM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:
>>
>> Do you enjoy continuously proving to us precisely how stupid you are?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:12 AM, e_space

>> <espac...@gmail.com<javascript:>

>>>>>>> atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>> atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
>>>>>>> /atheism-vs-christianity.
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>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>>>>> msgid/atheism-vs-christianity/5a8dfbe6-bf78-4cec-95f6-ec35c5e8
>>>>>>> 6323%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
>>>>>> Chairperson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
>>>>>> EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
>>>>>> Evil Anagrams Division
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trance Gemini
>>>> EAC Disciplinary Committee
>>>> Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Disciplinary Squad
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>>>>
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[e_space]

i know ... she's just a little bit of cheap entertainment  ;-^)

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[Trance Gemini]

Well feel free to continue demonstrating your extreme stupidity.

How ironic though that you don't appear to realize that it's rather stupid of you to do that. LOL!

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[e_space]

yawnzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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[Trance Gemini]

Yes I know you're boring as hell. A person with a brain would realize that the smart thing to do might be to shut up and move on but Tards like you are incapable of self-evaluating so it's not surprising that you would just continue to repeat the same Tard behavior over and over again mindlessly like a typical braindead sheeple.

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[e_space]

p

a

t

h

e

t

i

c

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[Trance Gemini]

I'm glad that you finally recognize one of your problems.

Some things are worth repeating so I'm going to repeat this following post in all of the threads where you are currently abusing me and behaving like a Tard.

You have been banned on numerous sites.

Here's objective reality.

You're a little shithead who gets his rocks off by abusing people. Being an asshole seems to make you feel like a big man. Other sites who experience your abuse just ban your ass right away because they simply don't want to deal with shitheads like you. 

You're still here because we don't ban shitheads and you know that.

You hate me because I call you on your shitty behavior like telling Les he should 'mosey along' or when Yarrido first joined here telling him 'he didn't belong here and should leave'.

When I call you on your shitty behavior you start to play the poor wittle victim being persecuting by the big mean moderator Trancy.

Then you brown-nose some new person by pretending to agree with them on something you've demonstrably disagreed with in the past. ROFL (That's probably the stupidest move of all).

This is an attempt to recruit some innocent into becoming your ally so you can hide behind them like the little chicken shit that you are since you're not man enough to deal with any of this stuff straightforwardly.

And the cycle continues.

You can lie all you want about it but the evidence of this pattern is demonstrated all over this site since you first started shitting here.

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[e_space]

what's that? 

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[Trance Gemini]

If you're denying that you've banned on numerous other sites then you're the liar.

Here's objective reality.

You're a little shithead who gets his rocks off by abusing people. Other sites just ban your ass right away because they simply don't want to deal with shitheads like you. 

You're still here because we don't ban shitheads and you know that.

You hate me because I call you on your shitty behavior like telling Les he should 'mosey along' or when Yarrido first joined here telling him 'he didn't belong here and should leave'.

When I call you on your shitty behavior you start to play the poor wittle victim being persecuting by the big mean moderator Trancy.

Then you brown-nose some new person by pretending to agree with them on something you've demonstrably disagreed with in the past. ROFL (That's probably the stupidest move of all).

This is an attempt to recruit some innocent into becoming your ally so you can hide behind them like the little chicken shit that you are since you're not man enough to deal with any of this stuff straightforwardly.

And they cycle continues.

You can lie all you want about it but the evidence of this pattern is demonstrated all over this site since you first started shitting here.

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[Max]

I'm a very sporadic contributor nowadays, so I'm not really up with AvC poster interactions, but I'm not exactly sure what youre looking to do here TG.

I mean, we all know you think very little of e-space and Ian to a lesser extent, so other than reiterating your distaste ad infinitum, why bother?

You can't turf 'em and they can say what they want.

And if I was being castigated for suggesting someone should 'mosey along', gawd...I'd be fucked every third post I think.

Now you know I ain't defending e-spaces record or Ian's reluctance or inability to keep relevant, but I do wonder why you draw yourself into these petty & infantile 'Tard' exchanges.

You're better than this.

And although I said I'm not defending e-spaces record, he does appear to be sticking to his twofold theme of rubbishing monotheistic belief and (albeit with less vigour) his 'spirit' thing. At least on the surface that is.

I'm not too sure, but has he been up to his former 'troll' like behaviours has he?

[Trance Gemini]

He has this nasty habit of attacking certain posters and telling them they should leave AvC. I have no intention of letting that slide. I don't care whether they're theists or atheists everyone has a right to be here and the one's that he attacks most are the more intelligent and contributing theist posters.

Once I do that he starts stalking me around the site and harassing me on every thread while playing the poor wittle victim as my punishment for daring to set him straight and let the theist posters know that his attitude isn't generally accepted here.

Once that happens well it's on. I'm sorry that people find it unpleasant but I've learned not let bullies like E_Space run roughshod over anyone including myself.

Walking away or ignoring them just enables their abusive natures.

Standing up to them even it means accepting the fact that things will be disrupted until they finally shut the fuck up discourages them over a period of time.

They're usually pretty thick and it takes a while but eventually it sinks in if they don't manage to get any support.

If they do manage to pull of conning anyway into supporting them well then you can expect things to get far worse as they start to throw their weight around more and more.

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[e_space]

yawnzzzzzzzz ... i never told anyone to leave??? haven't we gone through this already? meanwhile, a HIGH percentage of your posts are simply attacking me ... your private obsession ... your problem with me is that i reflect your abysmal attitude back at you, and what you see isn't very pretty, it is? 

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 5:57:18 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

He has this nasty habit of attacking certain posters and telling them they should leave AvC. I have no intention of letting that slide. I don't care whether they're theists or atheists everyone has a right to be here and the one's that he attacks most are the more intelligent and contributing theist posters.

Once I do that he starts stalking me around the site and harassing me on every thread while playing the poor wittle victim as my punishment for daring to set him straight and let the theist posters know that his attitude isn't generally accepted here.

Once that happens well it's on. I'm sorry that people find it unpleasant but I've learned not let bullies like E_Space run roughshod over anyone including myself.

Walking away or ignoring them just enables their abusive natures.

Standing up to them even it means accepting the fact that things will be disrupted until they finally shut the fuck up discourages them over a period of time.

They're usually pretty thick and it takes a while but eventually it sinks in if they don't manage to get any support.

If they do manage to pull of conning anyway into supporting them well then you can expect things to get far worse as they start to throw their weight around more and more.

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Max <maxx...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a very sporadic contributor nowadays, so I'm not really up with AvC poster interactions, but I'm not exactly sure what youre looking to do here TG.

I mean, we all know you think very little of e-space and Ian to a lesser extent, so other than reiterating your distaste ad infinitum, why bother?

You can't turf 'em and they can say what they want.

And if I was being castigated for suggesting someone should 'mosey along', gawd...I'd be fucked every third post I think.

Now you know I ain't defending e-spaces record or Ian's reluctance or inability to keep relevant, but I do wonder why you draw yourself into these petty & infantile 'Tard' exchanges.

You're better than this.

And although I said I'm not defending e-spaces record, he does appear to be sticking to his twofold theme of rubbishing monotheistic belief and (albeit with less vigour) his 'spirit' thing. At least on the surface that is.

I'm not too sure, but has he been up to his former 'troll' like behaviours has he?

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[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:08:33 PM UTC-5, e_space wrote:

yawnzzzzzzzz ... i never told anyone to leave???

I just took issue with your suggesting to Alan that he leave.

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 5:57:18 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

He has this nasty habit of attacking certain posters and telling them they should leave AvC. I have no intention of letting that slide. I don't care whether they're theists or atheists everyone has a right to be here.

[e_space]

good for you ... what i said to les, not alan (after he said he didn't come here to debate) was [paraphrasing] ... if you only want to preach and don't come here to debate, why don't you go somewhere else because this is a blog for debating ... i didn't tell him to leave, it was a suggestion ... and you have never taken your 'issue' up with me before ... i hope you recover though ;-^)

[Trance Gemini]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:08 PM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

yawnzzzzzzzz ... i never told anyone to leave???

Liar.

If you're denying that you've banned on numerous other sites then you're the liar.

Here's objective reality.

You're a little shithead who gets his rocks off by abusing people. Other sites just ban your ass right away because they simply don't want to deal with shitheads like you. 

You're still here because we don't ban shitheads and you know that.

You hate me because I call you on your shitty behavior like telling Les he should 'mosey along' or when Yarrido first joined here telling him 'he didn't belong here and should leave'.

When I call you on your shitty behavior you start to play the poor wittle victim being persecuting by the big mean moderator Trancy.

Then you brown-nose some new person by pretending to agree with them on something you've demonstrably disagreed with in the past. ROFL (That's probably the stupidest move of all).

This is an attempt to recruit some innocent into becoming your ally so you can hide behind them like the little chicken shit that you are since you're not man enough to deal with any of this stuff straightforwardly.

And they cycle continues.

[Trance Gemini]

This is a lie.

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[e_space]

whatever you 'think' germami  ... ;-^) ... got anything relevant to post, or are you just here for your daily spewing of hatred? 

On Friday, November 22, 2013 10:29:50 AM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

This is a lie.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:21 AM, e_space <espac...@gmail.com> wrote:

good for you ... what i said to les, not alan (after he said he didn't come here to debate) was [paraphrasing] ... if you only want to preach and don't come here to debate, why don't you go somewhere else because this is a blog for debating ... i didn't tell him to leave, it was a suggestion ... and you have never taken your 'issue' up with me before ... i hope you recover though ;-^)

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:35:32 PM UTC-5, Dingbat wrote:

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:08:33 PM UTC-5, e_space wrote:

yawnzzzzzzzz ... i never told anyone to leave???

I just took issue with your suggesting to Alan that he leave.

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 5:57:18 PM UTC-5, Trance Gemini wrote:

He has this nasty habit of attacking certain posters and telling them they should leave AvC. I have no intention of letting that slide. I don't care whether they're theists or atheists everyone has a right to be here.

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[e_space]

i was kicked out of one site ... guess why? a person who i was having a very good conversations with, and who actually asked me if she could post some of my comments on her blog, became a moderator ... and guess what, she totally changed and started unfairly throwing her weight around with other posters (not me) ... she went from white to black over night, you know, like a lot of people do when they get in a position of power or authority? (not that you were ever white)  ... 

anyway, (and you know all of this) ... i called her on her unfair and unwarranted behavior of others, and just like you do, she went off the deep end and became obsessed with hatred for me (sound familiar?) ... she told me to take the issue to the moderators forum, where she refused to engage with me further on the issue, knowing of course that she was in the wrong ... so, i brought the issue back into the main room, after which she took a hissy fit and booted me ... i went back to the room incognito and saw that people were calling her actions harsh and uncalled for and telling her that she should re-instate me, and that they missed my comments ... shocking eh? ;-^)

of course, the room was MUCH more strict than this place is ... people over there would never get away with calling people retarded and faggots, you know, like you constantly do? ... they would have their asses kicked out, and justifiably so, as this behavior is MUCH worse than what i got booted for ... thankfully for you, the rules are lax here, or your substantial ass would have boot marks all over it ... ;-^)  

[Ian Betts]

Trance she out look to her own nasty postings before she gets
throwing her hate mail at anyone here.

>> <javascript:>

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[Trance Gemini]

Yes we know E_Space. You're always just a poow wittle innocent victim of some big meanie and you've been banned from more than 1 site.

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[Trance Gemini]

Coming from Ian, the most irrational and the nastiest person AvC has seen in years, that's hilarious. The Irony.

The only one whose worse than you is your butt buddy E_Space here.

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