(LSJ) Outside the hourglass question
Drago13
blocked by The Unnamed.
He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed.
Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1?
Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by
blocking minion?
My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks
that way.
Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect
and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from
OTH, similar to using Soak or smth.
Flesh of Marble
Only usable before range is chosen.
[pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a
point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round,
any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is
automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this
way.
[PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as
well.
Outside the Hourglass
obf Strike: dodge.
[tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
[TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the
opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at
superior each round.
Blooded Sand
> There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was
> blocked by The Unnamed.
> He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed.
> Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1?
> Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by
> blocking minion?
> My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks
> that way.
> Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect
> and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from
> OTH, similar to using Soak or smth.
>
Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to
prevent outside the hourglass. That damage is preventable. You CANNOT,
however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or
similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it.
You can play flesh of marble at any time, there are no timing
restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play
this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of
combat...
LSJ
> On May 25, 11:11 pm, Drago13 <eduard.kep...@mf.vu.lt> wrote:
>
> > There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was
> > blocked by The Unnamed.
> > He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed.
> > Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1?
> > Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by
> > blocking minion?
> > My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks
> > that way.
> > Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect
> > and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from
> > OTH, similar to using Soak or smth.
>
> Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to
> prevent outside the hourglass. That damage is preventable. You CANNOT,
> however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or
> similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it.
>
> You can play flesh of marble at any time, there are no timing
> restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play
> this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of
> combat...
Correct.
Drain
>
> - Mostrar texto citado -
So the OtH damage doesn't resolve immediately, thus preventing the non-
acting player from playing the Flesh of Marble effectively? I'd have
guessed that the card's effects are fully applied before the impulse
passes back to the blocking methuselah..
Drain
LSJ
> So the OtH damage doesn't resolve immediately, thus preventing the non-
> acting player from playing the Flesh of Marble effectively?
The damage is applied, sure.
But, like any damage, it can be prevented.
If damage "resolved" (burned blood) immediately, then Skin of Rock,
say, could never be played.
Abdul alHazred
So Flesh of Marble is considered a prevent card since afaik you arent
able to play other cards in the prevent phase?
floppyzedolfin
Could the target of Outside the Hourglass cycle a Torn Signpost
(hoping to replace with a prevention card) before preventing the
damage OtH inflicts him ?
Drain
Right. I understood that complete resolution still had to allow for
prevention but didn't think that it would permit the playing of pre-
range cards, regardless of whether their effects include preventing
damage or not.
Drain
Drago13
is resolved (blood is burned) at the end of the phase, after both
players played all the cards they want?
So, for example if damage from OTH is aggravated because of Dawn
Operation, the blocking metuselah can play Skin of Night to make it
non-aggravated?
In that case can blocking metuselah play Weather Control or smth
before going to torpor?
floppyzedolfin
You should include the text you refer to when replying to someone.
Anyways, cards that are played in the "before range" window are played
in that window with the usual sequencing rules.
If the damage from OtH is aggravated for some reason, Skin of Night
can be played.
Drago13
I understand that, but I thought that if Acting minion plays OtH, the
opposing minion takes
damage before he can play any more of his ''usable before the range is
chosen'' cards,
except for damage prevention cards like Soak or Skin of rock, which
are played right away after the damage is applied.
So if acting vampire plays OtH, the opposing minion can't play his
Torn signpost until he takes (or prevents) damage from it.
Also I thought that Flesh of Marble is different from normal damage
prevention cards, because it effect triggers after you take
first point of damage.
So I thought that if acting vampire playes OtH first, he can't play
Flesh of Marble before taking the damage, and so Flesh of Marble will
be
played after he takes damage thus its damage preventing effect will
not trigger. (Until he takes another point of damage later this round)
suoli
IANLSJ but the damage from OtH is resolved before non-prevent cards
can be played. Cards that can prevent damage can be played because the
rulebook explicitly allows it.
"6.4.6. Damage Resolution
Damage resolution has two steps: prevent damage and heal damage.
First, the minion taking damage can play damage prevention cards (such
as the combat card Skin of Rock) if he is able to do so. These damage
prevention cards are played one at a time until all the damage is
prevented or until the minion chooses not to play any more."
So my guess is that you can play Skin of Night at superior but not at
inferior. Unless the aggravated damage is coming from an unpreventable
source, like Dawn Op+Weather Control.
Meej
> IANLSJ but the damage from OtH is resolved before non-prevent cards
> can be played. Cards that can prevent damage can be played because the
> rulebook explicitly allows it.
Yes; I think the question is, Flesh of Marble does not appear to be a
standard damage-prevention card, so Drago13 (and others, like me) are
wondering whether it counts as a card that can be played during a
damage-prevention step, somehow.
In other words, this is not about damage prevention generally, it's
about Flesh of Marble specifically.
- D.J.
Drago13
Exactly, this question is about Flesh of Marble, and also, as someone
mentioned, about
Skin of Night on inferior (if dmg. from OtH is somehow aggravated),
which isn't a 'card that prevents damage'
as written in a rulebook.
Meej
Even more specifically - is FoM to be understood as a prerange card
that sets up a future damage prevention effect but is not itself a
damage-prevention card suitable to be played during the damage-
prevention step, or is it a damage-prevention card that can also be
played proactively when no damage is pending, but only up until the
end of the before-range step for either reactive or proactive use?
Abdul alHazred
> On May 25, 5:36 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 11:11 pm, Drago13 <eduard.kep...@mf.vu.lt> wrote:
>
> > > There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was
> > > blocked by The Unnamed.
> > > Can The Unnamed play Flesh ofMarbleto reduce damage taken to 1?
> > > Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by
> > > blocking minion?
> > > My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks
> > > that way.
> > > and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from
> > > OTH, similar to using Soak or smth.
>
> > Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to
> > however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or
> > similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it.
>
> > restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play
> > this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of
> > combat...
>
> Correct.
>
>
>
> > > Flesh ofMarble
>
> > > Only usable before range is chosen.
> > > [pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a
> > > point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round,
> > > any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is
> > > automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this
> > > way.
> > > [PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as
> > > well.
>
>
> > > obf Strike: dodge.
> > > [tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
> > > [TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the
> > > superior each round.
>
>
Just want to get to the bottom of this so I understand the reasoning
behind this ruling and so I can with my limited jyhadness(tm)
logically explain it to others in my playgroup rather than saying "It
´s the ruling of LSJ".
Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge
inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what?
Flesh of marble says "For the duration of the combat, when this
vampire suffers a point of damage (that he or she does not prevent)"
so its effect kicks in AFTER the choice to not prevent the damage by
any other means than with flesh of marble and as I see it the only
cards that you could have impulse to play prerange after OtH is played
would be prevent cards (is FoM a prevent card?).
The question also arises to when a vampire "suffers" damage since
The resolution of the damage runs afaik damage is inflicted/declared
then you go into damage resolution (rulebook 6.4.6
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/) which is divided into two
steps 1 prevent damage and 2 heal damage. Where in this sequence is it
you can play Flesh of Marble and why?
To me it seems somewhat logical to be able to play (can you do this in
response to OtH?)Skin of the Adder, Mythic Form, Sword of the
Righteous, Horrid Form et al who in one way or the other says "prevent
x damage", but flesh of marbles phrasing says "after this moment the
vampire is immune to dmg except the first point inflicted." which is a
very different wording.
/thanks Tomas
Skin of the Adder
Type: Combat
Blood Cost: 1
Discipline: Serpentis
[ser] Play before range is determined. This vampire may prevent 1
damage each round. A vampire can play only one Skin of the Adder each
combat.
[SER] As above, and this vampire's hand strikes inflict an additional
point of damage for the remainder of combat.
Mythic Form
Type: Combat
Blood Cost: 3
Discipline: Protean
[pro] Play before range is determined on the first round. For the
remainder of this combat, this vampire gets +1 strength and can
prevent 1 non-aggravated damage each round. A vampire can play only
one Mythic Form each combat.
[PRO] As above, but with an optional maneuver, and this vampire can
inflict 2R aggravated damage as a strike once each round this combat.
Sword of the Righteous
Type: Combat
Blood Cost: 1
Discipline: Valeren/Animalism
Only usable before range is determined.
[ani] Choose one of this vampire's melee weapons. For the remainder of
combat, this vampire inflicts +1 damage each strike with that weapon.
A vampire can play only one Sword of the Righteous each combat.
[val] As [ani] above, and the damage this vampire inflicts with the
weapon is aggravated.
[VAL] As [val] above, and this vampire may prevent 1 damage this
round.
Horrid Form
Type: Combat
Blood Cost: 1
Discipline: Vicissitude
Only usable before range is chosen.
[vic] This vampire gets +1 strength for the remainder of combat.
[VIC] As above, and this vampire may prevent 1 damage each round for
the remainder of combat.
James Cass
> > > > Flesh of Marble
>
> > > > Only usable before range is chosen.
> > > > [pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a
> > > > point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round,
> > > > any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is
> > > > automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this
> > > > way.
> > > > [PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as
> > > > well.
> Just want to get to the bottom of this so I understand the reasoning
> behind this ruling and so I can with my limited jyhadness(tm)
> logically explain it to others in my playgroup rather than saying "It
> ´s the ruling of LSJ".
>
> Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge
> inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what?
Flesh of Marble isn't "played in response" of anything. It MUST be
played prior to range be determined, that and the fact that it is a
combat card are the only restrictions on when it can be played.
Abdul alHazred
So according to you there is nothing special about flesh of marble and
what I then deduct from your answer is that you can play ANY number of
"usable before range is chosen" cards in response to a played OtH card?
TorranceCircle
> > > Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge
> > > inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what?
>
> > Flesh of Marble isn't "played in response" of anything. It MUST be
> > played prior to range be determined, that and the fact that it is a
> > combat card are the only restrictions on when it can be played.
>
> So according to you there is nothing special about flesh of marble and
> what I then deduct from your answer is that you can play ANY number of
> "usable before range is chosen" cards in response to a played OtH card?
I believe some of your deduction is correct. That is, if someone
played OtH and had no further preranged cards to play at that time -
you could play two, three, four, etc. Horrid Form and prevent that
damage. I think the confusion is with the idea of 'timing'. I'm sure
others can point this out more clearly, but the 'timing' is different
from many other ccg's in that there is no response to the playing of
other cards. I don't think there is a technical term 'play in response
to' in vtes. Of course often times you are playing some cards only
because the other player has played something but in vtes I don't
think there is a 'play in response to' option rather it is "I have no
further cards to play at this time, do you wish to now play cards at
this time?" At this point, when nobody wants to play anymore cards,
cards then happen. So, OtH is inflicting 2 damage before range is
determined, X cards are doing whatever, and FoM is checking to see if
the vamp has taken one damage so it can start to prevent any further
damage. This is how I understand it and I could be incorrect. Also, if
you had five FoM you could play them all, before range is determined
as it says on the card, even if there is no damage.
Abdul alHazred
Thank you for answering.
(and I would love to see a clarification/explanation from LSJ)
I think I shouldn´t have used the phrase "in response" since you play
cards that cancels other cards "in response" to cards played but
otherwise you play a card and it is played, its effect is implemented
immediately. If someone plays Aura Reading at AUS the controller of
the opposing minion can´t say "before you draw those two cards I want
to play x "only usable before range is chosen"-cards." So if OtH says
"Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the
opposing minion." isnt the damage inflicted as the card is played and
shouldnt the damage inflicted be resolved as it is inflicted before
any other cards (like Flesh of Marble)? This isnt like declaring a
strike, it´s a direct effect ie the impulse doesn´t go to the opposing
vampires controller before dealing with the effects of the played OtH
(ergo the damage resolution step).
Now the assumption I make and this could very well be wrong is that
when damage is inflicted it is immediately followed by a damage
prevent phase (1 step in damage resolution) and the only cards that
you are allowed to play in a damage prevent phase is prevent cards.
Since I have a hard time seeing someone argue that the damage isn´t
inflicted as the card is played then I must assume if the above is
correct that the damage is inflicted and then you can wait throughout
the window (ie before range is chosen) to prevent the damage otherwise
why would you be able to play cards between the time OtH is played and
the damage prevented?
this is and old link, but only one I found to have some similarities
to OtH I would say is Blood to Water. If you have vamp a play blood to
water and vamp b has less than 3 blood can he then play ie wolf claws
for one of the blood that is supposed to be burned by blood to water?
I would argue no. Vamp B burns 3 /5 blood as Blood to water is played
(and not cancelled). Now damage and burning blood isnt the same thing,
but once again OtH should be according to the phrasing of the card an
immediate effect exactly like Blood to Water.
As I see it:
1 Controller of Vamp A plays OtH
2 Damage resolution step
2.1 Damage prevent (Vamp B:s controller can play prevent cards)
2.2 Damage heal (Vamp B burns blood to heal damage not prevented)
3 Impulse to Vamp A:s controller
No time during this sequence does the impulse to play any other card
than prevent cards pass over to vamp B except prehaps in the heal
damage phase and if Flesh of marble would be played there it wouldnt
effect the damage from OtH
Then Flesh of Marble presents another conundrum where it says "For the
duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage
(that he or she does not prevent) in a given round," and from this i
take that you suffer the damage before you choose not to prevent it
from the logic of the phrasing. So where between that the damager is
inflicted (as per OtH:s wording) and Vamp B.s controllers choice of
not preventing the damage is the damage suffered?
Logically for flesh of marble to be able to prevent OtH:s damage the
sequence has to be:
OtH is played (damage inflicted)
Flesh of Marble is played
Damage is "suffered"
damage is not prevented with prevent cards
Flesh of marbles effect kicks in and prevents one point of the damage
Vamp B heals 1 point of damage.
To me that doesnt logcally make sense unless you have a "damage
inflict step" and "damage suffered step" . Problem is that there are
different words used, but suffered, since it is before prevent would
logiacally be as it is inflicted and since it is inflicted as OtH is
played and Flesh of Marble is played after OtH the flesh of marble
effect wouldnt ecompass the damage from OtH since it is already
suffered.
/Tomas (who just wont let go)
Abdul alHazred
> On 8 Juni, 23:31, TorranceCircle <torrance.cir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what?
>
> strike, it´s a direct effect ie the impulse doesn´t go to the opposing
> vampires controller before dealing with the effects of the played OtH
> (ergo the damage resolution step).
>
> Now the assumption I make and this could very well be wrong is that
> when damage is inflicted it is immediately followed by a damage
> prevent phase (1 step in damage resolution) and the only cards that
> you are allowed to play in a damage prevent phase is prevent cards.
> Since I have a hard time seeing someone argue that the damage isn´t
> inflicted as the card is played then I must assume if the above is
> correct that the damage is inflicted and then you can wait throughout
> the window (ie before range is chosen) to prevent the damage otherwise
> why would you be able to play cards between the time OtH is played and
> the damage prevented?
>
> this is and old link, but only one I found to have some similarities
> to OtH I would say is Blood to Water. If you have vamp a play blood to
> water and vamp b has less than 3 blood can he then play ie wolf claws
> for one of the blood that is supposed to be burned by blood to water?
> I would argue no. Vamp B burns 3 /5 blood as Blood to water is played
> (and not cancelled). Now damage and burning blood isnt the same thing,
> but once again OtH should be according to the phrasing of the card an
> immediate effect exactly like Blood to Water.
>
>
> As I see it:
> 1 Controller of Vamp A plays OtH
> 2 Damage resolution step
> 2.1 Damage prevent (Vamp B:s controller can play prevent cards)
> 2.2 Damage heal (Vamp B burns blood to heal damage not prevented)
> 3 Impulse to Vamp A:s controller
>
> No time during this sequence does the impulse to play any other card
> than prevent cards pass over to vamp B except prehaps in the heal
> effect the damage from OtH
>
> duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage
> (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round," and from this i
> take that you suffer the damage before you choose not to prevent it
> from the logic of the phrasing. So where between that the damager is
> inflicted (as per OtH:s wording) and Vamp B.s controllers choice of
> not preventing the damage is the damage suffered?
>
> sequence has to be:
>
> OtH is played (damage inflicted)
> Damage is "suffered"
> damage is not prevented with prevent cards
> Flesh of marbles effect kicks in and prevents one point of the damage
> Vamp B heals 1 point of damage.
>
> To me that doesnt logcally make sense unless you have a "damage
> inflict step" and "damage suffered step" . Problem is that there are
> different words used, but suffered, since it is before prevent would
> logiacally be as it is inflicted and since it is inflicted as OtH is
> effect wouldnt ecompass the damage from OtH since it is already
> suffered.
>
>
> - Visa citerad text -
to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered)
questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can
be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with
better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me.
- You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/
healing damage from an OtH already played.
- You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
- You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the
damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before
preventing/healing that damage.
- You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/
healing damage from an OtH already played.
Skin of Night
Type: Combat
Discipline: Fortitude
[for] This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage for the
remainder of this round.
[FOR] As above, and prevent 1 damage.
I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this.
/thanks Tomas
LSJ
>
[massive snip]
> to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered)
> questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can
> be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with
> better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me.
>
> - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/
> healing damage from an OtH already played.
Yes.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7b4a0293b1e288be
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3cc686fc638b5ad1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/cf93fbdc27e1c3fd
> - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
Yes.
(same URL)
> - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the
> damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before
> preventing/healing that damage.
Yes.
> - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/
> healing damage from an OtH already played.
Yes.
Abdul alHazred
> On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>
>
> [massive snip]
>
> > to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered)
> > questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can
> > be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with
> > better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me.
>
> > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
>
> > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> Yes.
> (same URL)
>
> > - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the
> > damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before
> > preventing/healing that damage.
>
> Yes.
>
> > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Skin of Night
> > Type: Combat
> > Discipline: Fortitude
>
> > [for] This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage for the
> > remainder of this round.
> > [FOR] As above, and prevent 1 damage.
>
> > I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this.
>
>
> - Visa citerad text -
Thanks alot LSJ.
Neil
> On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
> Yes.
> (same URL)
and
> > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> Yes.
I'm having a bit of trouble combining this with the answer given in
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/716cd1abb755ff3f
Relevant quote:
On Apr 26, 12:59 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 1:26 am, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 11:07 am, Haze <headlessr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > (5) Finally, needing a clarification on effects in the pre-range step.
> > > Oops I mean, the Only Usable Before Range Is Determined Pseudo-Step.
> > > This happened in a game and we weren't sure what would happen.
> > > Al-Muntaquim is blocked by Saulot and plays Dawn Operation, so all
> > > damage in combat is aggravated. Al-Muntaquim plays Outside the
> > > Hourglass (Pre-range: Inflict 2 damage). Saulot's controller doesn't
> > > have damage prevention on hand, but plays Weather Control before
> > > resolving the 2 agg effect which would send him to torpor. Is ordering
> > > pre-range effects like this allowed?
> > No. Outside the Hourglass resolves when it in played. Saulot takes 2
> > aggravated damage and goes to torpor without a chance to play other
> > cards (except to prevent the damage or to cancel OtH).
> Correct.
which, to me, reads as a limitation on the cards that can be played in
response to Outside the Hourglass. Could this be further clarified,
please?
LSJ
> On Jul 6, 2:28 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> > > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> > > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
> > Yes.
> > (same URL)
>
> and
>
> > > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > > healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> > Yes.
>
>
> Relevant quote:
>
> On Apr 26, 12:59 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 26, 1:26 am, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > On Apr 26, 11:07 am, Haze <headlessr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > (5) Finally, needing a clarification on effects in the pre-range step.
> > > > Oops I mean, the Only Usable Before Range Is Determined Pseudo-Step.
> > > > This happened in a game and we weren't sure what would happen.
> > > > Al-Muntaquim is blocked by Saulot and plays Dawn Operation, so all
> > > > damage in combat is aggravated. Al-Muntaquim plays Outside the
> > > > Hourglass (Pre-range: Inflict 2 damage). Saulot's controller doesn't
> > > > have damage prevention on hand, but plays Weather Control before
> > > > resolving the 2 agg effect which would send him to torpor. Is ordering
> > > > pre-range effects like this allowed?
> > > No. Outside the Hourglass resolves when it in played. Saulot takes 2
> > > aggravated damage and goes to torpor without a chance to play other
> > > cards (except to prevent the damage or to cancel OtH).
> > Correct.
>
> which, to me, reads as a limitation on the cards that can be played in
> response to Outside the Hourglass. Could this be further clarified,
> please?
A mistake on my part (the latter citation). The RTR is still correct.
suoli
Goratrix attempts to block Shalmath. Shalmath plays Domain of
Evernight at inferior and the block succeeds. Before range, Shalmath
plays Outside the Hourglass and Goratrix plays Weather Control. What
happens?
LSJ
[snip unused quoted material]
> Goratrix attempts to block Shalmath. Shalmath plays Domain of
> Evernight at inferior and the block succeeds. Before range, Shalmath
> plays Outside the Hourglass and Goratrix plays Weather Control. What
> happens?
Goratrix takes 2 damage from OtH.
Goratrix and Shalmath each take 1 unpreventable damage from WC.
All that damage is aggravated, thanks to DoE.
Any retainers on Shalmath and Goratrix each take 1 unpreventable
damage from WC.
Henri K
> On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>
>
> [massive snip]
>
> > to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered)
> > questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can
> > be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with
> > better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me.
>
> > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
>
> > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> Yes.
> (same URL)
Can I also play any number of pre-range cards as the acting minion
before the damage from OtH is handled? I should have the impulse as
the acting minion, right? Or does the damage resolution of OtH somehow
move the impulse to play combat cards to the reacting minion?