[News] Microsoft's Scott Guthrie Lies About/Twists "Cross-platform" to Hijack Web
Roy Schestowitz
,----[ Quote ]
| Scott Guthrie, a general manager in Microsoft's developer division, blogged
| ahead of Adobe's AIR and Flex news that Silverlight 2 would feature a
| cross-platform version of its .NET Framework and let developers program
| Silverlight content using any .NET language.
`----
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/02/25/microsoft_adobe_ria_internet_explorer/
It's *not* cross-platform. They keep lying about it. They attack HTML, Flash,
LAMP, and Ajax. The US and EU regulators are already after them for
Silverlight abuses.
Related:
Microsoft's Silverlight Promises to Disrupt Linux Web Users
,----[ Quote ]
| Just as it seemed that Linux users (especially 64-bit users) would
| finally be able to enjoy streaming content with a minimum of
| hassle, Microsoft's new Silverlight software promises to throw a
| wrench in the works. Because of sites like Google Video and
| Youtube, Flash video has become a common means of streaming
| multimedia over the Internet.
`----
http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry1418.html
Microsoft's 'Everywhere' excludes Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| This browser add-on enables rendering of WPF content, but
| "Everywhere" doesn't include Linux.
`----
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/7794/53/
ECIS Accuses Microsoft of Plotting HTML Hijack
,----[ Quote ]
| An industry coalition that has represented competitors of Microsoft
| in European markets before the European Commission stepped up its
| public relations offensive this morning, this time accusing
| Microsoft of scheming to upset HTML's place in the fabric of
| the Internet with XAML, an XML-based layout lexicon for
| network applications.
`----
http://www.betanews.com/article/ECIS_Accuses_Microsoft_of_Plotting_HTML_Hijack/1169824569
Microsoft Shares the Love, but Not with Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft has put up an invitation to share the love, but not with Linux
| (just bear with me, it will make sense in the end). With Valentine's Day just
| a few weeks away, the teams over at Windows Live and Microsoft Silverlight
| have joined their forces to enable users to spread and share their love.
`----
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Shares-the-Love-But-Not-with-Linux-76929.shtml
Ustream.tv negotiating $50 million sale to Microsoft
,----[ Quote ]
| Our tipster also mentions that Microsoft would use Ustream as a way to
| promote its Adobe Flash competitor, Silverlight.
`----
http://valleywag.com/354140/ustreamtv-negotiating-50-million-sale-to-microsoft
Erik Funkenbusch
> Microsoft and Adobe jockey on rich applications
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
>| Scott Guthrie, a general manager in Microsoft's developer division, blogged
>| ahead of Adobe's AIR and Flex news that Silverlight 2 would feature a
>| cross-platform version of its .NET Framework and let developers program
>| Silverlight content using any .NET language.
> `----
>
> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/02/25/microsoft_adobe_ria_internet_explorer/
>
> It's *not* cross-platform. They keep lying about it. They attack HTML, Flash,
> LAMP, and Ajax. The US and EU regulators are already after them for
> Silverlight abuses.
Roy, you are flat out lying on this. Microsoft itself makes Silverlight
available on both the PC and Mac. That makes it cross platform. That
doesn't even include Moonlight.
Why do you lie like this?
The Ghost In The Machine
<er...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
wrote
on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:05:56 -0500
<616pr0bn...@funkenbusch.com>:
Erik does have a point, though we do have a problem as
well. Silverlight is available on at least two platforms,
the aforementioned MacOSX as well as Windows. That it is not
available for Linux doesn't make it non-multiplatform,
though I for one am very annoyed at the lack of support
for what is an increasingly popular OS. (Presumably, the
FreeBSD crowd will be annoyed as well, in their newsgroup.)
Besides, this is COLA anyway. ;-)
There is some good news:
http://www.mono-project.com/news/archive/2007/May-05.html
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9731410-7.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070507-mono-developers-to-bring-silverlight-to-linux.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/05/04/linux-silverlight-to-arrive-by-year-end
And there's some bad news. Gentoo does not recognize "moonlight"
as a package name.
Make of all this what one will.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
/dev/signature: No such file or directory
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Roy Schestowitz
My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
--
~~ Best of wishes
"The danger is that Microsoft is using strategic monopolistic pricing in the
education market, with the government’s assistance, to turn our state
university systems into private workforce training programs for Microsoft."
--Nathan Newman
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
19:00:02 up 33 days, 4:54, 3 users, load average: 0.17, 0.69, 1.01
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
Moshe Goldfarb
Quantity.
Seeding Google.
Spamming his own websites, which he convienintly managed to do in his reply
to you.
etc...
The list is endless, but Linux advocacy isn't on the list.
That's for certain.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
The Ghost In The Machine
<newsg...@schestowitz.com>
wrote
on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000
<7543748.P...@schestowitz.com>:
Hmm....well, it's still dual-platform, anyway. Of course ideally it
would be open-sourced, compileable, and alterable as well, with some
variant of the GPL or LGPL. ;)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #110309238:
item * f(item *p) { if(p = NULL) return new item; else return p; }
Erik Funkenbusch
> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
re-defined the meaning.
Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
more than one platform". You are the one trying to redefine it.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=cross-platform
"cross-platform software, hardware
A term that describes a language, software application or hardware device
that works on more than one system platform (e.g. Unix, Microsoft Windows,
Macintosh). E.g. Netscape Navigator, Java."
http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Cross%20platform
"Cross-platform, or multi-platform, is a term which can refer to computer
programs, operating systems, computer languages, programming languages, or
other computer software and their implementations which can be made to work
on multiple computer platforms. For example, a cross-platform application
may run on Microsoft Windows on the x86 architecture, Linux on the x86
architecture and Mac OS X on either the PowerPC based Apple Macintosh or
the x86 based Apple Macintosh systems. A cross-platform application could
run on all common platforms, *OR SIMPLY MORE THAN ONE*"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform
" “Cross-platform” and “multi-platform” both refer to the idea that a given
piece of computer software is able to be run on more than one computer
platform."
So please, Roy, spare us the "redefinition" bullshit. By all credible
sources (ie, not you) "cross platform" means "more than one", not "all" or
"if it doesn't run on Linux it's not cross platform".
Moshe Goldfarb
And once again Roy Schestowitz attempts to debate and ends up gong down in
flames.
No wonder he prefers to crap flood.
The Ghost In The Machine
<brick....@gmail.com>
wrote
on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:39:12 -0500
<xnc4qjtp00am.cs5ynqyy2v7y$.d...@40tude.net>:
We have proven that Silverlight is multi-platform (for multi=2, anyway)
and that it is not open-source. Half the battle, I guess.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Q: "Why is my computer doing that?"
A: "Don't do that and you'll be fine."
Linonut
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
>> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
>> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
>
> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
> re-defined the meaning.
>
> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
> more than one platform".
So Microsoft Office is cross-platform, then?
> You are the one trying to redefine it.
--
I laid out memory so the bottom 640K was general purpose RAM and the upper
384 I reserved for video and ROM, and things like that. That is why they
talk about the 640K limit. It is actually a limit, not of the software, in
any way, shape, or form, it is the limit of the microprocessor. That thing
generates addresses, 20-bits addresses, that only can address a megabyte of
memory. And, therefore, all the applications are tied to that limit. It was
ten times what we had before. But to my surprise, we ran out of that address
base for applications within... oh five or six years people were
complaining.
-- Bill Gates, Smithsonian Institution interview (1993)
Erik Funkenbusch
> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
>>> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
>>> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
>>
>> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
>> re-defined the meaning.
>>
>> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
>> more than one platform".
>
> So Microsoft Office is cross-platform, then?
Yes and no. Office for Mac and Office for Windows are not really the same
programs running under a different OS. Silverlight apps are.
The Ghost In The Machine
<lin...@bollsouth.nut>
wrote
on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:37:36 -0500
<7h2xj.80494$vt2....@bignews8.bellsouth.net>:
> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
>>> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
>>> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
>>
>> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
>> re-defined the meaning.
>>
>> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
>> more than one platform".
>
> So Microsoft Office is cross-platform, then?
Microsoft Office is dual-platform; it runs on both Windows and MacOSX.
That's admittedly the best I can do, and of course it's closed-source.
>
>> You are the one trying to redefine it.
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Q: "Why is my computer doing that?"
A: "Don't do that and you'll be fine."
--
Tim Smith
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> wrote:
> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
> re-defined the meaning.
>
> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
> more than one platform". You are the one trying to redefine it.
Besides, it does run on Linux. To get it down to just Windows and Mac,
Roy had to arbitrarily exclude Moonlight.
--
--Tim Smith
The Ghost In The Machine
<1aq9xvt8oz43k$.d...@funkenbusch.com>:
I for one would assume the higher-level code is nearly
identical; the differences would be in the Win32
implementation. Of course without the source how would
we know? ;-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- allegedly said by Bill Gates, 1981, but somebody had to make this up!
Erik Funkenbusch
Technically, Moonlight hasn't been released yet, so I'll grant that..
The Ghost In The Machine
<16vlu64y...@funkenbusch.com>:
We'll see come June or thereabouts.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Insert random misquote here.
Roy Schestowitz
"Dual" and "multi" would be okay. A bit like Shared Source, which ignorant
journalism at times called "Open Source" (which it's not).
Microsoft is deceiving developers here to give them the illusion that
Silverlight sites will work for everyone. They won't. In fact, they exclude
Microsoft's #1 risk.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux: mint and self-contained 'out of the box'
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
Roy Schestowitz
> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
>>> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
>>> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
>>
>> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
>> re-defined the meaning.
>>
>> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
>> more than one platform".
>
> So Microsoft Office is cross-platform, then?
It's not.
Microsoft tries to take a term that is typically used in one context (very
consistently in fact) and transform it to suit selfish agenda. Microsoft is
now doing this to FOSS/OSS as well. It's hijacking words, twists them and
shakes them to kill their meaning.
And again: Moonlight //IS NOT// Silverlight.
>> You are the one trying to redefine it.
>
--
Tom Shelton
But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
including Linux...
--
Tom Shelton
Tom Shelton
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch
><er...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
> wrote
> on Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:28:26 -0500
><1aq9xvt8oz43k$.d...@funkenbusch.com>:
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:37:36 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:04:50 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My original post was fine. The Microsoft Agent just wants to warp things to
>>>>> discredit. More explanation here, if the Agent is interested.
>>>>> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/26/microsoft-redefines-cross-platform/
>>>>
>>>> No, Roy. You lied. Silverlight is cross platform. Microsoft has not
>>>> re-defined the meaning.
>>>>
>>>> Cross platform does not mean "runs on all platforms", it means "runs on
>>>> more than one platform".
>>>
>>> So Microsoft Office is cross-platform, then?
>>
>> Yes and no. Office for Mac and Office for Windows are not really the same
>> programs running under a different OS. Silverlight apps are.
>
> I for one would assume the higher-level code is nearly
> identical; the differences would be in the Win32
> implementation. Of course without the source how would
> we know? ;-)
>
I have heard, and I could be wrong, that the Windows and Mac source are
completely separate code bases...
--
Tom Shelton
Roy Schestowitz
Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here. Not to
mention the horrid Monopendency...
--
~~ Best of wishes
"The collaborative, massively distributed development process behind the
Internet and Open Source projects is not your enemy. It is your friend, the
source of basic research that you can turn into your next generation of
products."
--Tim O’Reilly
Tim Smith
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> > But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
> > implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
> > including Linux...
>
> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here. Not
> to
> mention the horrid Monopendency...
Moonlight is an open source implementation of the Silverlight runtime.
Silverlight content will work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
--
--Tim Smith
Linonut
> In article <1868322.p...@schestowitz.com>,
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>> > But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
>> > implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
>> > including Linux...
>>
>> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here. Not
>> to mention the horrid Monopendency...
>
> Moonlight is an open source implementation of the Silverlight runtime.
In the same way Mono is an open source implementation of (all of) .NET?
> Silverlight content will work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
For some definition of "work", I'm sure.
--
Microsoft has had clear competitors in the past. It's a good thing we have
museums to document that.
-- Bill Gates, Speech at the Computer History Museum, as quoted in InfoWorld
magazine (October 2001)
Troy Kirkland
"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:SYxxj.104295$N67....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>* Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <1868322.p...@schestowitz.com>,
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>> > But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
>>> > implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
>>> > including Linux...
>>>
>>> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here.
>>> Not
>>> to mention the horrid Monopendency...
>>
>> Moonlight is an open source implementation of the Silverlight runtime.
>
> In the same way Mono is an open source implementation of (all of) .NET?
>
>> Silverlight content will work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
>
> For some definition of "work", I'm sure.
For the commonly accepted definition of "work", I'm sure.
--
Roy Schestowitz
> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <1868322.p...@schestowitz.com>,
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>> > But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
>>> > implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
>>> > including Linux...
>>>
>>> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here.
>>> Not to mention the horrid Monopendency...
>>
>> Moonlight is an open source implementation of the Silverlight runtime.
>
> In the same way Mono is an open source implementation of (all of) .NET?
It's not. Like I told Tom, "No need for spin here."
>> Silverlight content will work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
>
> For some definition of "work", I'm sure.
>
--
~~ Best of wishes
Beware the Windows box spewage (more commonly known as "spam")
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
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Troy Kirkland
"Roy Schestowitz" <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
news:1868322.p...@schestowitz.com...
> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 27 February 2008 23:57 : \____
>> But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
>> implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
>> including Linux...
>
> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here.
> Not to
> mention the horrid Monopendency...
That's because you're too stupid to know anything about either one. To a
cave man a chunk of ice was very different from water. Like you, they were
stupid and didn't know.
Too bad that you and your fellow shills are too stupid to use Google to
learn what Moonlight and Silverlight really are. You say they are *not* the
same. You ought to tell the OSS developers because they seem to think they
are the same.
http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
<quote>
*Moonlight*
A page to track the various projects that make up the Mono-based
implementation of Silverlight.
The goals are:
To run Silverlight applications on Linux.
To provide a Linux SDK to build Silverlight applications.
To reuse the Silverlight engine we have built for desktop applications.
</quote>
The Ghost In The Machine
<ki...@google.com>
wrote
on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:09:36 -0500
<47c70970$0$26099$8826...@free.teranews.com>:
>
> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
> news:1868322.p...@schestowitz.com...
>> ____/ Tom Shelton on Wednesday 27 February 2008 23:57 : \____
>
>>> But, Moonlight will be - and MS is helping Novell with the
>>> implementation. Then it will run on any platform mono runs on -
>>> including Linux...
>>
>> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here.
>> Not to
>> mention the horrid Monopendency...
>
>
> That's because you're too stupid to know
> anything about either one. To a cave man
> a chunk of ice was very different from water.
Still is; one can't drink ice. Also, AFAIK most
water-based chemistry does not function in ice, unless it
melts during the reaction -- a possibility.
(The phase diagram of water is actually rather interesting
but is well beyond the discussion charter of this
newsgroup.)
> Like you, they were stupid and didn't know.
>
> Too bad that you and your fellow shills are too stupid to use Google to
> learn what Moonlight and Silverlight really are. You say they are *not* the
> same. You ought to tell the OSS developers because they seem to think they
> are the same.
Silverlight is a duly-licensed project from Microsoft.
Moonlight is not. (Moonlight *might* be licensed
indirectly, through Novell.)
>
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
>
> <quote>
> *Moonlight*
> A page to track the various projects that make up the Mono-based
> implementation of Silverlight.
>
> The goals are:
>
> To run Silverlight applications on Linux.
Someone is going to have to define "application" properly
in this context. The entire system
(local + server [+ proxy]) is probably an application here.
Presumably, the Linux side can run a local Silverlight client,
using Moonlight API/support. (The issues appear similar to
Java and Kaffe.)
> To provide a Linux SDK to build Silverlight applications.
Can't build Silverlight apps on Linux boxes without a valid Microsoft
license, I suspect. Moonlight and Silverlight-runnable, maybe.
> To reuse the Silverlight engine we have built for desktop applications.
Moonlight engine.
> </quote>
>
You're right...they're very confused. Me, I'm merely
ignorant; I'd have to study the issue. ;-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. It'll Fix Everything(tm).
Erik Funkenbusch
> Moonlight is not Silverlight (and will never be). No need for spin here. Not to
> mention the horrid Monopendency...
Moonlight is not Silverlight in the same way that Linux is not Unix (or
Posix for that matter).
Miguel de Icaza
> Erik does have a point, though we do have a problem as
> well. Silverlight is available on at least two platforms,
> the aforementioned MacOSX as well as Windows. That it is not
> available for Linux doesn't make it non-multiplatform,
> though I for one am very annoyed at the lack of support
> for what is an increasingly popular OS. (Presumably, the
> FreeBSD crowd will be annoyed as well, in their newsgroup.)
Microsoft in this case is doing the right thing: they are assisting
the Mono group to have an open source implementation that will be
fully compatible with their implementation (they are giving us access
to their test suites and their engineers to ask questions if we have
problems).
Giving us access to the test suites is a major deal, as we are able to
track closely our progress in terms of compatibility, and we get to
deliver the same functionality that developers expect, except our code
is LGPL and the source code is available. Our plan is to support as
many Unix variants as we can, in the end the changes are fairly
minimal, but we will need folks on various distributions, operating
systems and architectures to help us test the code.
They even took an extra step and will distribute their optimized media
codecs (as a binary blob) for users. Those that feel strongly about
not using binary blobs, can just use FFMPEG (this is what is supported
by default if you compile from source code anyways).
Miguel.
Miguel de Icaza
> > Moonlight is an open source implementation of the Silverlight runtime.
>
> In the same way Mono is an open source implementation of (all of) .NET?
In a similar way; Mono is not an implementation of *all* of .NET, we
implement the major features, and we try to implement what people need
the most (we base this on the roughly the 5,000 reports that we have
that have been provided from ISVs trying to port their software to
Linux/BSD/MacOS/Solaris using Mono).
We try to prioritize what is more important to people based on the
above statistics.
As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are compatible.
The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards compatibility
on their own product.
Miguel.
Miguel de Icaza
> in this context. The entire system
> (local + server [+ proxy]) is probably an application here.
Silverlight is a client side technology, so we are going to deliver
the components to run content that was created on Silverlight on Linux
using Moonlight.
At this point we have a feature complete 1.0 implementation, and we
are working on three areas:
* Fix all known bugs, pass all test suites
* Improve performance
* Integrate Microsoft's Media Pack into Moonlight.
Miguel
Moshe Goldfarb
You do realize that you are dealing with Roy Schestowitz, a paranoid Linux
loony toon.
Just the mention of Microsoft in a reply is enough to set him off on one of
his crap floods of SPAM.
Tim Smith
<09ce6f89-f586-494e...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Miguel de Icaza <miguel....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Microsoft in this case is doing the right thing: they are assisting
> the Mono group to have an open source implementation that will be
> fully compatible with their implementation (they are giving us access
> to their test suites and their engineers to ask questions if we have
> problems).
>
> Giving us access to the test suites is a major deal, as we are able to
> track closely our progress in terms of compatibility, and we get to
> deliver the same functionality that developers expect, except our code
> is LGPL and the source code is available. Our plan is to support as
> many Unix variants as we can, in the end the changes are fairly
> minimal, but we will need folks on various distributions, operating
> systems and architectures to help us test the code.
Has any arrangement been made concerning new versions of Silverlight?
Presumably, at some point Microsoft will develop an updated version, and
release an implementation of that and specs. Users will then start
updating to that. At some point after that, there will be enough users
that sites will consider it safe to start requiring that the user have
the new version.
Will the Moonlight team get access to that new spec early enough to have
the new Linux client available when sites start requiring it?
--
--Tim Smith
Linonut
What are the licensing terms for the MS Media Pack?
--
Gates is the ultimate programming machine. He believes everything can be
defined, examined, reduced to essentials, and rearranged into a logical
sequence that will achieve a particular goal.
-- Stewart Alsop
Roy Schestowitz
Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and probably
never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is therefore not
correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same vein, OOXML is Microsoft
Office (and it's not superb at all).
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux: just set it and forget about it
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
11:05:02 up 37 days, 20:59, 3 users, load average: 1.28, 1.41, 1.32
http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
Tim Smith
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> > As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
> > pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
> > includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are compatible.
> > The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards compatibility
> > on their own product.
>
> Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and probably
> never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is therefore not
> correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same vein, OOXML is Microsoft
> Office (and it's not superb at all).
Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from the
Silverlight people.
Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are numerous
posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player for Linux.
How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
--
--Tim Smith
Tony Drudge
"Tim Smith" <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:reply_in_group-5EF...@news.supernews.com...
> In article <2918649.C...@schestowitz.com>,
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>> > As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
>> > pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
>> > includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are compatible.
>> > The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards compatibility
>> > on their own product.
>>
>> Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and
>> probably
>> never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is therefore not
>> correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same vein, OOXML is
>> Microsoft
>> Office (and it's not superb at all).
>
> Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
> pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
> Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from the
> Silverlight people.
Not 'pretty much the same' but actually better. Gnash is completely
unsupported by Adobe and is based completely on reverse engineering.
Moonlight has support from the Silverlight team and access to their team
members and test suites.
> Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are numerous
> posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player for Linux.
You mean like these posts that Schestowitz made?
A Look at Gnash (Open Source Flash), Which Adopted GPLv3
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/88809ef9f6fc4836
Open Source Flash (GNU Gnash) - Review and Advantages
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/b5f939cf40adb3d3
New Ubuntu Includes Free Open Source Flash Implementation (gnash)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/d0eba54d510ba8dc
Free Flash Player for Linux - (A reverse-engineering project) Gnash, the
free Flash player
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4c5111151cfe2aeb
> How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
> Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
Schestowitz is not interested in accuracy or facts. He's an immature child
and his only concern is anti-MS zealotry.
Linonut
> In article <2918649.C...@schestowitz.com>,
Tim, looking to score a pedant point.
And completely missing the point.
--
I'm sorry that we have to have a Washington presence. We thrived during our
first 16 years without any of this. I never made a political visit to
Washington and we had no people here. It wasn't on our radar screen. We were
just making great software.
-- Bill Gates
Hadron
> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <2918649.C...@schestowitz.com>,
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>> > As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
>>> > pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
>>> > includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are compatible.
>>> > The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards compatibility
>>> > on their own product.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and probably
>>> never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is therefore not
>>> correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same vein, OOXML is Microsoft
>>> Office (and it's not superb at all).
>>
>> Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
>> pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
>> Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from the
>> Silverlight people.
>>
>> Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are numerous
>> posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player for Linux.
>>
>> How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
>> Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
>
> Tim, looking to score a pedant point.
>
> And completely missing the point.
Are you sure you are a programmer? Your girly giggles over your new slrn
filters and inability to understand the basics of any technical issue
make we wonder.
Moshe Goldfarb
> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <2918649.C...@schestowitz.com>,
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>> > As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
>>> > pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
>>> > includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are compatible.
>>> > The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards compatibility
>>> > on their own product.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and probably
>>> never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is therefore not
>>> correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same vein, OOXML is Microsoft
>>> Office (and it's not superb at all).
>>
>> Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
>> pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
>> Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from the
>> Silverlight people.
>>
>> Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are numerous
>> posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player for Linux.
>>
>> How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
>> Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
>
> Tim, looking to score a pedant point.
>
> And completely missing the point.
I hope your master is paying you well because you have got to be the most
obvious shill in this group.
Even Mark Kent isn't as bad as you because I suspect he actually believes
the loony stuff he posts.
You on the other hand changed over night from a decent poster to a starry
eyed shill, Linonut.
I'm sure your masters are happy with your work.
Moshe Goldfarb
I think he has changed careers from programmer to paid shill.
Much like Schestowitz is no longer a full time student, only officially so
he can sponge off grants etc and is now a full time paid SPAMMER.
Rick
Why do you have such an obsession with Roy?
--
Rick
Roy Schestowitz
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:13:33 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:12:01 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>>>
>>>> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <2918649.C...@schestowitz.com>,
>>>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > As for the features in Moonlight and Silverlight, they should be
>>>>>> > pretty much comparable, as part of our collaboration agreement
>>>>>> > includes access to the test suites to ensure that we are
>>>>>> > compatible. The same test suites that they use to ensure backwards
>>>>>> > compatibility on their own product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Miguel. This confirms that Moonlight is not Silverlight (and
>>>>>> probably never will be). Saying that Silverlight works in Linux is
>>>>>> therefore not correct. Silverlight is Silverlight. In the same
>>>>>> vein, OOXML is Microsoft Office (and it's not superb at all).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
>>>>> pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
>>>>> Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from
>>>>> the Silverlight people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are
>>>>> numerous posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player
>>>>> for Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
>>>>> Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
I never justified the use of Flash. What are you on about anyway?
>>>> Tim, looking to score a pedant point.
>>>>
>>>> And completely missing the point.
>>>
>>> Are you sure you are a programmer? Your girly giggles over your new
>>> slrn filters and inability to understand the basics of any technical
>>> issue make we wonder.
>>
>> I think he has changed careers from programmer to paid shill. Much like
>> Schestowitz is no longer a full time student, only officially so he can
>> sponge off grants etc and is now a full time paid SPAMMER.
>
> Why do you have such an obsession with Roy?
he has got to spread some libel. That's what Gary Stewart and his hundreds of
pseudonyms (this time it's "Moshe Goldfarb") have been doing for the past 10
years.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Community is code, code is community
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
17:20:02 up 38 days, 3:14, 3 users, load average: 1.41, 1.61, 1.71
Moshe Goldfarb
Why is this group so obsessed with Microsoft/Windows hate mongering?
I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies.
If I didn't believe 100 percent that he is being compensated for his hate
mongering I wouldn't care.
Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too starry
eyed.
At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I and
others have been correct all the time.
Rick
... because of Microsoft's illegal and/or underhanded business practices?
>
> I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies. If I didn't believe 100 percent
> that he is being compensated for his hate mongering I wouldn't care.
And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you accuse
him of?
>
> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too starry
> eyed.
First, why?
Second, starry eyed? Me? I think not, I have been using Linux for around
10 years... since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by
hand. I am well aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also
aware that I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs.
Yes, there are times when I need IE. There are times when I need windows
to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware that a LOT of popular games
don't run under Linux at all, much less native.
I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure OS.
I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their software.
Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes.
Do I think it will happen any time soon, or even at all? No.
Do I still but software? Yes.
So, where are the stars?
>
> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I and
> others have been correct all the time.
... and so what if you are?
--
Rick
Moshe Goldfarb
You are one *funny* girl Roy...
Miguel de Icaza
Yes.
> Presumably, at some point Microsoft will develop an updated version, and
> release an implementation of that and specs. Users will then start
> updating to that. At some point after that, there will be enough users
> that sites will consider it safe to start requiring that the user have
> the new version.
That makes sense; Hopefully we will tracking Silverlight 2.0 fairly
closely.
In another post I outlined our current priorities (leading to shipping
1.0),
but once we sort those out we will switch development to 2.0.
> Will theMoonlightteam get access to that new spec early enough to have
> the new Linux client available when sites start requiring it?
Yes, we already have them, and have had for a few months now. We
have done
some work on a private tree (the 'oil' tree). The work will become
public
when Microsoft officially releases the new APIs.
Miguel.
Moshe Goldfarb
The same could be said of Roy Schestowitz.
You just refuse to admit it.
>>
>> I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies. If I didn't believe 100 percent
>> that he is being compensated for his hate mongering I wouldn't care.
>
> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you accuse
> him of?
Are you kidding?
Do you realize how much money is ultimately at stake?
You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting around
a campfire and singing Kum ba ya.
For most of you, at least in COLA, that's the way you see it.
For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia, Negroponte,
Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money is at stake.
>>
>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too starry
>> eyed.
>
> First, why?
>
> Second, starry eyed? Me? I think not, I have been using Linux for around
> 10 years... since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by
> hand. I am well aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also
> aware that I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs.
> Yes, there are times when I need IE. There are times when I need windows
> to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware that a LOT of popular games
> don't run under Linux at all, much less native.
>
> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure OS.
> I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their software.
>
> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes.
> Do I think it will happen any time soon, or even at all? No.
> Do I still but software? Yes.
>
> So, where are the stars?
They are in your eyes when you refuse to even consider that Schestowitz
might be getting compensated for his *work*.
>>
>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I and
>> others have been correct all the time.
>
> ... and so what if you are?
Nothing really other than the fact that you guys have been getting conned
and used by a Pied Piper.
Snit
on 3/2/08 11:00 AM:
> I have been using Linux for around 10 years...
Wait, I thought you told me you went from OS X to Linux. Maybe it was
Classic Mac to Linux? Can you clarify?
> since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by hand. I am well
> aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also aware that I, with few
> exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs. Yes, there are times when I
> need IE. There are times when I need windows to run an app or 2 from work. I
> am well aware that a LOT of popular games don't run under Linux at all, much
> less native.
And then there are things like iLife, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Camtasia,
Automator, FileMaker Pro, etc... and the overall system has a fractured UI
that increases the risk of lost data, reduces productivity, etc. So, sure,
a desktop Linux solution might meet someone's *needs* but it, generally,
will not meet them as well as other solutions.
> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure OS.
> I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their software.
As have I about software on other OSs. Not sure what your point was with
that.
> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes.
> Do I think it will happen any time soon, or even at all? No.
> Do I still but software? Yes.
What do you mean by "still but software"? Still buy?
>
> So, where are the stars?
Your inability to see the fractured nature of desktop Linux distros even in
the face of pictorial and video proof shows you are starry eyed over Linux.
>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I and
>> others have been correct all the time.
>
> ... and so what if you are?
If I am right then Linux will get better and will become less and less
fractured of a UI... even though so many in the Linux community are blind to
the problems it creates.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
> What are the licensing terms for the MS Media Pack?
Probably the same as the terms for everything else the Vole produces;
AYBABTU.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
18:59:32 up 72 days, 16:35, 5 users, load average: 0.05, 0.05, 0.00
[H]omer
> Microsoft in this case is doing the right thing: they are assisting
> the Mono group to have an open source implementation that will be
> fully compatible with their implementation
Well well, the big guns are out in full force this weekend, aren't they?
While you're here, please allow me to take this opportunity to ask a few
pertinent (although not entirely impertinent) questions:
1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to not
sue, for the use of any Microsoft Intellectual Property?
3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
like Linux?
> They even took an extra step and will distribute their optimized
> media codecs (as a binary blob) for users. Those that feel strongly
> about not using binary blobs, can just use FFMPEG (this is what is
> supported by default if you compile from source code anyways).
4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the
Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without
the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and
other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the
Netscape years?
5) ... Do you further forsee the likelihood that the binary blobs, that
you speak of, become a hard dependency in order to fully utilise the
future Web, as it will be reborn in Microsoft's image, given the
possibility that Microsoft may develop new proprietary and encumbered
codecs, or enforce their Intellectual Property rights on Free
implementations of existing codecs, such as those used in FFMPEG?
6) ... Therefore do you concede that it is possible, and indeed likely,
that the future of the Web (and in other contexts - office documents and
software development) might end up becoming utterly dependent of
Microsoft's Intellectual Property, and thus effectively controlled (in
essence "owned") by Microsoft, just as they have been striving to do for
so long, and have currently succeeded in other areas, such as the OEM
channel; games development; hardware support; and elsewhere?
7) ... And finally, do you think it is prudent, or even morally right,
for Free Software developers to essentially help Microsoft in their
endeavours to dominate the Web; office formats; and software
development, particularly as Microsoft has continuously expressed so
much contempt and hatred for the principles of Free Software and Open
Standards over the years?
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
18:57:41 up 72 days, 16:33, 5 users, load average: 0.01, 0.04, 0.00
Rick
What illegal activity is Roy engaged in, and how does it adversely effect
the Linux community?
>
>
>>> I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies. If I didn't believe 100
>>> percent that he is being compensated for his hate mongering I wouldn't
>>> care.
>>
>> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you
>> accuse him of?
>
> Are you kidding?
> Do you realize how much money is ultimately at stake?
And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you accuse
him of?
>
> You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting
> around a campfire and singing Kum ba ya.
> For most of you, at least in COLA, that's the way you see it.
>
> For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia,
> Negroponte, Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money is
> at stake.
Yes, there is money at stake. A lot.
>
>
>
>>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too starry
>>> eyed.
>>
>> First, why?
No answer?
>>
>> Second, starry eyed? Me? I think not, I have been using Linux for
>> around 10 years... since you really did have to edit a lot of config
>> files by hand. I am well aware of the relative lack of applications. I
>> am also aware that I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my
>> computer needs. Yes, there are times when I need IE. There are times
>> when I need windows to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware that
>> a LOT of popular games don't run under Linux at all, much less native.
>>
>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>> software.
>>
>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it will
>> happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but software? Yes.
>>
>> So, where are the stars?
>
> They are in your eyes when you refuse to even consider that Schestowitz
> might be getting compensated for his *work*.
What does using Linux have to do with anything that Roy does?
>>>
>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>
>> ... and so what if you are?
>
> Nothing really other than the fact that you guys have been getting
> conned and used by a Pied Piper.
Roy isn't conning me about anything.
--
Rick
Linonut
> Yes, we already have them, and have had for a few months now. We
> have done some work on a private tree (the 'oil' tree). The work
> will become public when Microsoft officially releases the new APIs.
>
> Miguel.
What will be the terms for commercial usage of Mono?
--
It's not manufacturers trying to rip anybody off or anything like that.
There's nobody getting rich writing software that I know of.
-- Bill Gates, Interview with Dennis Bathory-Kitsz in 80 Microcomputing (1980)
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
> 13slqq6...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 11:00 AM:
>
>> I have been using Linux for around 10 years...
>
> Wait, I thought you told me you went from OS X to Linux. Maybe it was
> Classic Mac to Linux? Can you clarify?
First, why should I? What's it to you?
And, as I have told you before, I first used LinuxPPC on my Mac, along
with OS X, and then moved to an Intel clone.
>
>> since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by hand. I am
>> well aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also aware that
>> I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs. Yes, there
>> are times when I need IE. There are times when I need windows to run an
>> app or 2 from work. I am well aware that a LOT of popular games don't
>> run under Linux at all, much less native.
>
> And then there are things like iLife, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Camtasia,
> Automator, FileMaker Pro, etc...
Yes? So what? What does any of that have to do with me?
> and the overall system has a fractured
> UI that increases the risk of lost data, reduces productivity, etc. So,
> sure, a desktop Linux solution might meet someone's *needs* but it,
> generally, will not meet them as well as other solutions.
I see you are still showing your UI ignorance.
>
>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>> software.
>
> As have I about software on other OSs. Not sure what your point was
> with that.
Think about it. It night come to you. Then again, it may not.
>
>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it will
>> happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but software? Yes.
>
> What do you mean by "still but software"? Still buy?
A typo. Beeg Deel. So What?
... and yes, I still buy software.
>>
>> So, where are the stars?
>
> Your inability to see the fractured nature of desktop Linux distros even
> in the face of pictorial and video proof shows you are starry eyed over
> Linux.
Since they performed as designed they are not fractured. I much prefer
being able to run QT/KDE and gtk/Gnome apps at the same time rather than
have to make an either or choice.
>
>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>
>> ... and so what if you are?
>
> If I am right then Linux will get better and will become less and less
> fractured of a UI... even though so many in the Linux community are
> blind to the problems it creates.
You're and idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
--
Rick
Moshe Goldfarb
>>> ... because of Microsoft's illegal and/or underhanded business
>>> practices?
>>
>> The same could be said of Roy Schestowitz. You just refuse to admit it.
>
> What illegal activity is Roy engaged in, and how does it adversely effect
> the Linux community?
None at the moment.
I was referring to your underhanded business practices comment.
However, if you want to talk about roy Schestowitz and illegal activity we
can talk about his past use of illegal use of copyrighted graphics on his
website.
>>
>>
>>>> I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies. If I didn't believe 100
>>>> percent that he is being compensated for his hate mongering I wouldn't
>>>> care.
>>>
>>> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you
>>> accuse him of?
>>
>> Are you kidding?
>> Do you realize how much money is ultimately at stake?
>
> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you accuse
> him of?
Duh????
Think about it....
Why do lobbyists exist?
>>
>> You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting
>> around a campfire and singing Kum ba ya.
>> For most of you, at least in COLA, that's the way you see it.
>>
>> For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia,
>> Negroponte, Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money is
>> at stake.
>
> Yes, there is money at stake. A lot.
And now you have your answer.
>>
>>
>>>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too starry
>>>> eyed.
>>>
>>> First, why?
>
> No answer?
To counter tha bullshit he posts here and to let others who may wander in
here and think he is a sincere do gooder doing this from the bottom of his
heart know the truth.
As a side effect, to show that not everyone in the Linux community is a
loony like Roy. IOW I am doing you guys a favor by exposing him because he
is doing far more harm to the Linux cause than you will ever admit.
Some say he is in fact a reverse troll working for a Microsoft interest.
I'm not convinced of that one, yet, but I suppose anything is possible.
>>>
>>> Second, starry eyed? Me? I think not, I have been using Linux for
>>> around 10 years... since you really did have to edit a lot of config
>>> files by hand. I am well aware of the relative lack of applications. I
>>> am also aware that I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my
>>> computer needs. Yes, there are times when I need IE. There are times
>>> when I need windows to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware that
>>> a LOT of popular games don't run under Linux at all, much less native.
>>>
>>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>>> software.
>>>
>>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it will
>>> happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but software? Yes.
>>>
>>> So, where are the stars?
>>
>> They are in your eyes when you refuse to even consider that Schestowitz
>> might be getting compensated for his *work*.
>
> What does using Linux have to do with anything that Roy does?
He does harm to the Linux community.
harm = bad press = less users.
>>>>
>>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>>
>>> ... and so what if you are?
>>
>> Nothing really other than the fact that you guys have been getting
>> conned and used by a Pied Piper.
>
> Roy isn't conning me about anything.
Good, then we agree.
Snit
on 3/2/08 12:21 PM:
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:45:05 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
>> 13slqq6...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 11:00 AM:
>>
>>> I have been using Linux for around 10 years...
>>
>> Wait, I thought you told me you went from OS X to Linux. Maybe it was
>> Classic Mac to Linux? Can you clarify?
>
> First, why should I? What's it to you?
Because I am curious and you made a big deal of it. You sure have a rude
demeanor!
> And, as I have told you before, I first used LinuxPPC on my Mac, along
> with OS X, and then moved to an Intel clone.
Ah, so you have not used Linux as your primary system for 10 years... but
you did not say you did... thanks for the clarrification.
>>> since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by hand. I am
>>> well aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also aware that
>>> I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs. Yes, there
>>> are times when I need IE. There are times when I need windows to run an
>>> app or 2 from work. I am well aware that a LOT of popular games don't
>>> run under Linux at all, much less native.
>>
>> And then there are things like iLife, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Camtasia,
>> Automator, FileMaker Pro, etc...
>
> Yes? So what? What does any of that have to do with me?
You are very self absorbed. Wow.
>> and the overall system has a fractured UI that increases the risk of lost
>> data, reduces productivity, etc. So, sure, a desktop Linux solution might
>> meet someone's *needs* but it, generally, will not meet them as well as other
>> solutions.
>>
> I see you are still showing your UI ignorance.
>
How so? By all means offer a correction to my statements.
As if you could. You won't. What you will do is show you are in over your
head by posting completely irrelevant insults. Yes, you are that
predictable. Really.
>>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>>> software.
>>
>> As have I about software on other OSs. Not sure what your point was
>> with that.
>
> Think about it. It night come to you. Then again, it may not.
Ah, you have no real point... so you are dodging. OK.
>>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it will
>>> happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but software? Yes.
>>
>> What do you mean by "still but software"? Still buy?
>
> A typo. Beeg Deel. So What?
>
> ... and yes, I still buy software.
Thanks for the correction. Why so rude about it?
>>>
>>> So, where are the stars?
>>
>> Your inability to see the fractured nature of desktop Linux distros even
>> in the face of pictorial and video proof shows you are starry eyed over
>> Linux.
>
> Since they performed as designed they are not fractured.
Gee, and above you pretended to know more about Linux UI issues than I do -
but then you make such basic errors as this! Wow... that is just amazing.
> I much prefer being able to run QT/KDE and gtk/Gnome apps at the same time
> rather than have to make an either or choice.
Irrelevant... but OK. As you have been told, the problem is not the ability
to do so but the *necessity* to do so to have a complete desktop solution.
>>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>>
>>> ... and so what if you are?
>>
>> If I am right then Linux will get better and will become less and less
>> fractured of a UI... even though so many in the Linux community are
>> blind to the problems it creates.
>
> You're and idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
You lash out a lot. Wow... you do not like it when your ignorance is
pointed out.
--
Do you ever wake up in a cold sweat wondering what the world would be
like if the Lamarckian view of evolutionary had ended up being accepted
over Darwin's?
Rick
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:15:55 -0000, Rick wrote:
>
>
>>>> ... because of Microsoft's illegal and/or underhanded business
>>>> practices?
>>>
>>> The same could be said of Roy Schestowitz. You just refuse to admit
>>> it.
>>
>> What illegal activity is Roy engaged in, and how does it adversely
>> effect the Linux community?
>
> None at the moment.
> I was referring to your underhanded business practices comment.
>
> However, if you want to talk about roy Schestowitz and illegal activity
> we can talk about his past use of illegal use of copyrighted graphics on
> his website.
Even if true, how did that adversely effect the Linux community?
>>>
>>>>> I don't like fakes, frauds and phonies. If I didn't believe 100
>>>>> percent that he is being compensated for his hate mongering I
>>>>> wouldn't care.
>>>>
>>>> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you
>>>> accuse him of?
>>>
>>> Are you kidding?
>>> Do you realize how much money is ultimately at stake?
>>
>> And what makes you think anyone would compensate him for what you
>> accuse him of?
>
> Duh????
>
> Think about it....
>
> Why do lobbyists exist?
Who is going to compensate him?
>
>>> You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting
>>> around a campfire and singing Kum ba ya. For most of you, at least in
>>> COLA, that's the way you see it.
>>>
>>> For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia,
>>> Negroponte, Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money
>>> is at stake.
>>
>> Yes, there is money at stake. A lot.
>
> And now you have your answer.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too
>>>>> starry eyed.
>>>>
>>>> First, why?
>>
>> No answer?
>
> To counter tha bullshit he posts here and to let others who may wander
> in here and think he is a sincere do gooder doing this from the bottom
> of his heart know the truth.
>
> As a side effect, to show that not everyone in the Linux community is a
> loony like Roy. IOW I am doing you guys a favor by exposing him because
> he is doing far more harm to the Linux cause than you will ever admit.
You're not doing me any favor. And, IMO, there are a fairn number of
others that would agree with me.
>
> Some say he is in fact a reverse troll working for a Microsoft interest.
> I'm not convinced of that one, yet, but I suppose anything is possible.
What anti-Linux concern do you work for?
>
>
>>>> Second, starry eyed? Me? I think not, I have been using Linux for
>>>> around 10 years... since you really did have to edit a lot of config
>>>> files by hand. I am well aware of the relative lack of applications.
>>>> I am also aware that I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my
>>>> computer needs. Yes, there are times when I need IE. There are times
>>>> when I need windows to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware
>>>> that a LOT of popular games don't run under Linux at all, much less
>>>> native.
>>>>
>>>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>>>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>>>> software.
>>>>
>>>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it
>>>> will happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but
>>>> software? Yes.
>>>>
>>>> So, where are the stars?
>>>
>>> They are in your eyes when you refuse to even consider that
>>> Schestowitz might be getting compensated for his *work*.
>>
>> What does using Linux have to do with anything that Roy does?
>
> He does harm to the Linux community.
> harm = bad press = less users.
Maybe I should go ask people on the street if they have ever heard of him.
>>>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>>>
>>>> ... and so what if you are?
>>>
>>> Nothing really other than the fact that you guys have been getting
>>> conned and used by a Pied Piper.
>>
>> Roy isn't conning me about anything.
>
> Good, then we agree.
We agree on what?
--
Rick
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
> 13slvh7...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 12:21 PM:
>
>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:45:05 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
>>> 13slqq6...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 11:00 AM:
>>>
>>>> I have been using Linux for around 10 years...
>>>
>>> Wait, I thought you told me you went from OS X to Linux. Maybe it was
>>> Classic Mac to Linux? Can you clarify?
>>
>> First, why should I? What's it to you?
>
> Because I am curious and you made a big deal of it. You sure have a
> rude demeanor!
I mentioned it to someone that isn't you. And you bring out the rudeness
in people.
>
>> And, as I have told you before, I first used LinuxPPC on my Mac, along
>> with OS X, and then moved to an Intel clone.
>
> Ah, so you have not used Linux as your primary system for 10 years...
> but you did not say you did... thanks for the clarrification.
I have repeatedly pointed you to my background in personal computers.
>
>>>> since you really did have to edit a lot of config files by hand. I am
>>>> well aware of the relative lack of applications. I am also aware that
>>>> I, with few exceptions, use Linux for all my computer needs. Yes,
>>>> there are times when I need IE. There are times when I need windows
>>>> to run an app or 2 from work. I am well aware that a LOT of popular
>>>> games don't run under Linux at all, much less native.
>>>
>>> And then there are things like iLife, Dreamweaver, Photoshop,
>>> Camtasia, Automator, FileMaker Pro, etc...
>>
>> Yes? So what? What does any of that have to do with me?
>
> You are very self absorbed. Wow.
No answer to the question, I see.
>
>>> and the overall system has a fractured UI that increases the risk of
>>> lost data, reduces productivity, etc. So, sure, a desktop Linux
>>> solution might meet someone's *needs* but it, generally, will not meet
>>> them as well as other solutions.
>>>
>> I see you are still showing your UI ignorance.
>>
> How so? By all means offer a correction to my statements.
>
> As if you could. You won't. What you will do is show you are in over
> your head by posting completely irrelevant insults. Yes, you are that
> predictable. Really.
I have. Several time. You refuse to understand them.
>
>>>> I am also aware that most Linux based distros provide a stable secure
>>>> OS. I can (and have) talked directly to developers about their
>>>> software.
>>>
>>> As have I about software on other OSs. Not sure what your point was
>>> with that.
>>
>> Think about it. It night come to you. Then again, it may not.
>
> Ah, you have no real point... so you are dodging. OK.
Ah, you lack comprehension. OK.
>
>>>> Do I wish all software was OSS and free ($0)... yes. Do I think it
>>>> will happen any time soon, or even at all? No. Do I still but
>>>> software? Yes.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "still but software"? Still buy?
>>
>> A typo. Beeg Deel. So What?
>>
>> ... and yes, I still buy software.
>
> Thanks for the correction. Why so rude about it?
You bring rudeness out in people, and the above comment wasn't
particularly rude.
>>>>
>>>> So, where are the stars?
>>>
>>> Your inability to see the fractured nature of desktop Linux distros
>>> even in the face of pictorial and video proof shows you are starry
>>> eyed over Linux.
>>
>> Since they performed as designed they are not fractured.
>
> Gee, and above you pretended to know more about Linux UI issues than I
> do - but then you make such basic errors as this! Wow... that is just
> amazing.
Since they performed as designed they are not fractured.
>
>> I much prefer being able to run QT/KDE and gtk/Gnome apps at the same
>> time rather than have to make an either or choice.
>
> Irrelevant... but OK.
It is extremely relevant.
> As you have been told, the problem is not the
> ability to do so but the *necessity* to do so to have a complete desktop
> solution.
I have a complete desktop solution.
>
>>>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>>>
>>>> ... and so what if you are?
>>>
>>> If I am right then Linux will get better and will become less and less
>>> fractured of a UI... even though so many in the Linux community are
>>> blind to the problems it creates.
>>
>> You're an idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
>
> You lash out a lot. Wow... you do not like it when your ignorance is
> pointed out.
You're an idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
--
Rick
Tim Smith
Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
> > Wait a second. The relationship of Moonlight to Silverlight sounds
> > pretty much the same as the relationship of Gnash to Flash, except
> > Moonlight is actually receiving encouragement and cooperation from the
> > Silverlight people.
> >
> > Google in groups for "schestowitz" and "gnash", and there are numerous
> > posts by you supporting Gnash and calling it a Flash player for Linux.
> >
> > How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
> > Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
>
> Tim, looking to score a pedant point.
>
> And completely missing the point.
What point would that be?
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> >>>>> How can you claim that Gnash counts as Flash for Linux, but say that
> >>>>> Moonlight does not count as Silverlight for Linux.
>
> I never justified the use of Flash. What are you on about anyway?
Message-ID: <2262668.R...@schestowitz.com>
Subject: [News] A Look at Gnash (Open Source Flash), Which Adopted GPLv3
Message-ID: <2462593.3...@schestowitz.com>
Subject: [News] Report on the Open Source Flash Player (Gnash Interview)
"Interview with Rob Savoye of Gnash, the GPL Flash project"
Message-ID: <3176572.W...@schestowitz.com>
Subject: [News] Open Source Flash (GNU Gnash) - Review and Advantages
Message-ID: <2929052.p...@schestowitz.com>
Subject: [News] New Ubuntu Includes Free Open Source Flash
You've repeatedly counted Gnash as being an open source Flash.
Moonlight is like Gnash. It is an open source Silverlight.
--
--Tim Smith
Miguel de Icaza
> loony toon.
The guy has a mancrush on me, so am familiar with his "work" and what
he
does to bring more adsense revenue to his web sites.
miguel
Moshe Goldfarb
And the lemmings in comp.os.linux.advocacy still don't believe Roy
Schestowitz is being paid, one way or the other, to post these 1000's of
messages per month to USNET and evey other corner and crevice of the
Internet.
Moshe Goldfarb
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:38:24 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:15:55 -0000, Rick wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> ... because of Microsoft's illegal and/or underhanded business
>>>>> practices?
>>>>
>>>> The same could be said of Roy Schestowitz. You just refuse to admit
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> What illegal activity is Roy engaged in, and how does it adversely
>>> effect the Linux community?
>>
>> None at the moment.
>> I was referring to your underhanded business practices comment.
>>
>> However, if you want to talk about roy Schestowitz and illegal activity
>> we can talk about his past use of illegal use of copyrighted graphics on
>> his website.
>
> Even if true, how did that adversely effect the Linux community?
If it were just an average poster in an advocacy group, not much effect.
However, Schestowitz is not your average poster for all the reasons I have
listed elsewhere.
His name is splattered all over the place and you literally cannot search
on anything Linux without him or one of his hate sites coming up.
What this does by virtue of his looniness is make the real advocates look
like kooks.
> Who is going to compensate him?
Lots of people who want to spread the Linux word and nuke Microsoft as well
as their Linux competitors.
Shuttleworth, Redhat, people from Groklaw.
He makes money off his Adsense hits which is why whenever possible he uses
his own sites instead of a direct link to the source.
Wake up Kier and smell the SPAM.
Why do you think he posted on digg that he doesn't comment anymore?
Why do you think he won't post a digest?
Why do you think he doesn't have the time to check his articles for
accuracy?
These are HIS words, not mine.
>>
>>>> You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting
>>>> around a campfire and singing Kum ba ya. For most of you, at least in
>>>> COLA, that's the way you see it.
>>>>
>>>> For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia,
>>>> Negroponte, Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money
>>>> is at stake.
>>>
>>> Yes, there is money at stake. A lot.
>>
>> And now you have your answer.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too
>>>>>> starry eyed.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, why?
>>>
>>> No answer?
>>
>> To counter tha bullshit he posts here and to let others who may wander
>> in here and think he is a sincere do gooder doing this from the bottom
>> of his heart know the truth.
>>
>> As a side effect, to show that not everyone in the Linux community is a
>> loony like Roy. IOW I am doing you guys a favor by exposing him because
>> he is doing far more harm to the Linux cause than you will ever admit.
>
> You're not doing me any favor. And, IMO, there are a fairn number of
> others that would agree with me.
Of course not.
You are lemmings who have been sucked in.
You wouldn't believe it if someone posted his pay stub on line.
>>
>> Some say he is in fact a reverse troll working for a Microsoft interest.
>> I'm not convinced of that one, yet, but I suppose anything is possible.
>
> What anti-Linux concern do you work for?
I'm not anti Linux.
I'm anti Linux loony.
>>> Roy isn't conning me about anything.
>>
>> Good, then we agree.
>
> We agree on what?
That you are a lemming and are too blind to see that you are being taken
for a ride.
Moshe Goldfarb
I sense a thread slink coming along......
How can these Linux advocates not see what Schestowitz is all about?
They can't all be ignorant, or can they?
Snit
on 3/2/08 3:15 PM:
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:42:52 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
>> 13slvh7...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 12:21 PM:
>>
>>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:45:05 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Rick" <no...@nomail.com> stated in post
>>>> 13slqq6...@news.supernews.com on 3/2/08 11:00 AM:
>>>>
>>>>> I have been using Linux for around 10 years...
>>>>
>>>> Wait, I thought you told me you went from OS X to Linux. Maybe it was
>>>> Classic Mac to Linux? Can you clarify?
>>>
>>> First, why should I? What's it to you?
>>
>> Because I am curious and you made a big deal of it. You sure have a
>> rude demeanor!
>
> I mentioned it to someone that isn't you. And you bring out the rudeness
> in people.
Actually you have told me directly... and your rude behavior is yours - do
not blame me for your actions.
...
>>>> and the overall system has a fractured UI that increases the risk of
>>>> lost data, reduces productivity, etc. So, sure, a desktop Linux
>>>> solution might meet someone's *needs* but it, generally, will not meet
>>>> them as well as other solutions.
>>>>
>>> I see you are still showing your UI ignorance.
>>>
>> How so? By all means offer a correction to my statements.
>>
>> As if you could. You won't. What you will do is show you are in over
>> your head by posting completely irrelevant insults. Yes, you are that
>> predictable. Really.
>
> I have. Several time. You refuse to understand them.
Incorrect... but the opposite is true. Even as I show you images and movies
that *prove* the fractured nature of the PCLOS UI, for example, you deny it.
As I and others have pointed out you not only are ignorant of UI concepts
you are so ignorant of them that you do not even realize your ignorance!
...
>>>> What do you mean by "still but software"? Still buy?
>>>
>>> A typo. Beeg Deel. So What?
>>>
>>> ... and yes, I still buy software.
>>
>> Thanks for the correction. Why so rude about it?
>
> You bring rudeness out in people, and the above comment wasn't
> particularly rude.
There you go blaming me for your behavior again. And denying your behavior.
That is just weird.
...
>>>> Your inability to see the fractured nature of desktop Linux distros
>>>> even in the face of pictorial and video proof shows you are starry
>>>> eyed over Linux.
>>>
>>> Since they performed as designed they are not fractured.
>>
>> Gee, and above you pretended to know more about Linux UI issues than I
>> do - but then you make such basic errors as this! Wow... that is just
>> amazing.
>
> Since they performed as designed they are not fractured.
Your claim proves my point about your ignorance. Thank you.
>>> I much prefer being able to run QT/KDE and gtk/Gnome apps at the same
>>> time rather than have to make an either or choice.
>>
>> Irrelevant... but OK.
>
> It is extremely relevant.
Nope. Not even a little.
>> As you have been told, the problem is not the ability to do so but the
>> *necessity* to do so to have a complete desktop solution.
>>
> I have a complete desktop solution.
Just not a very good one. OK.
>
>>
>>>>>> At some point it is going to all be revealed and you will see that I
>>>>>> and others have been correct all the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and so what if you are?
>>>>
>>>> If I am right then Linux will get better and will become less and less
>>>> fractured of a UI... even though so many in the Linux community are
>>>> blind to the problems it creates.
>>>
>>> You're an idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
>>
>> You lash out a lot. Wow... you do not like it when your ignorance is
>> pointed out.
>
> You're an idiot, and Linux continues to improve.
>
See how you lash out... amazing.
--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley
Rick
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:11:18 -0000, Rick wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:38:24 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:15:55 -0000, Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ... because of Microsoft's illegal and/or underhanded business
>>>>>> practices?
>>>>>
>>>>> The same could be said of Roy Schestowitz. You just refuse to admit
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> What illegal activity is Roy engaged in, and how does it adversely
>>>> effect the Linux community?
>>>
>>> None at the moment.
>>> I was referring to your underhanded business practices comment.
>>>
>>> However, if you want to talk about roy Schestowitz and illegal
>>> activity we can talk about his past use of illegal use of copyrighted
>>> graphics on his website.
>>
>> Even if true, how did that adversely effect the Linux community?
>
> If it were just an average poster in an advocacy group, not much effect.
> However, Schestowitz is not your average poster for all the reasons I
> have listed elsewhere.
>
> His name is splattered all over the place and you literally cannot
> search on anything Linux without him or one of his hate sites coming up.
>
> What this does by virtue of his looniness is make the real advocates
> look like kooks.
I've never seen his name in any of my searches.
>
>
>> Who is going to compensate him?
>
> Lots of people who want to spread the Linux word and nuke Microsoft as
> well as their Linux competitors.
> Shuttleworth, Redhat, people from Groklaw.
>
> He makes money off his Adsense hits which is why whenever possible he
> uses his own sites instead of a direct link to the source.
>
> Wake up Kier and smell the SPAM.
Kier?
>
> Why do you think he posted on digg that he doesn't comment anymore? Why
> do you think he won't post a digest? Why do you think he doesn't have
> the time to check his articles for accuracy?
>
> These are HIS words, not mine.
I have no idea, and I don't care.
>
>
>>>>> You Linux loons like to believe the Linux vs * war is about sitting
>>>>> around a campfire and singing Kum ba ya. For most of you, at least
>>>>> in COLA, that's the way you see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> For others, Novell, Microsoft, Xandros, Linspire, IBM, Nvidia,
>>>>> Negroponte, Shuttleworth etc this is big business and a lot of money
>>>>> is at stake.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there is money at stake. A lot.
>>>
>>> And now you have your answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Somebody has to expose this shill since the rest of you are too
>>>>>>> starry eyed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, why?
>>>>
>>>> No answer?
>>>
>>> To counter tha bullshit he posts here and to let others who may wander
>>> in here and think he is a sincere do gooder doing this from the bottom
>>> of his heart know the truth.
>>>
>>> As a side effect, to show that not everyone in the Linux community is
>>> a loony like Roy. IOW I am doing you guys a favor by exposing him
>>> because he is doing far more harm to the Linux cause than you will
>>> ever admit.
>>
>> You're not doing me any favor. And, IMO, there are a fairn number of
>> others that would agree with me.
>
> Of course not.
> You are lemmings who have been sucked in. You wouldn't believe it if
> someone posted his pay stub on line.
If I don't read his posts, how can I have been sucked in?
>>> Some say he is in fact a reverse troll working for a Microsoft
>>> interest. I'm not convinced of that one, yet, but I suppose anything
>>> is possible.
>>
>> What anti-Linux concern do you work for?
>
> I'm not anti Linux.
> I'm anti Linux loony.
Yeah. Right.
>>>> Roy isn't conning me about anything.
>>>
>>> Good, then we agree.
>>
>> We agree on what?
>
> That you are a lemming and are too blind to see that you are being taken
> for a ride.
No, we don't agree. And, AGAIN, if I'm not reading Roy's posts, how can
he be taking me for a ride?
--
Rick
Moshe Goldfarb
> No, we don't agree. And, AGAIN, if I'm not reading Roy's posts, how can
> he be taking me for a ride?
You're wearing out my keyboard Rick.
Sorry about confusing you with Kier.
Look, we disagree, let's leave it at that.
Fair enough?
Roy Schestowitz
First of all, you're replying to a Microsoft troll who spreads libel, so I'm
hardly surprised you cling onto that. Second of all, I've no touch with
AdSense (it's Shane) and the last time I checked it was barely enough to even
pay the hosting bill, so don't try to make it seem otherwise.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
Hadron
*deafening silence as Liarnut slinks away after, again, shilling with NO
clue what he was responding to*
Linonut
> * Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> Yes, we already have them, and have had for a few months now. We
>> have done some work on a private tree (the 'oil' tree). The work
>> will become public when Microsoft officially releases the new APIs.
>>
>> Miguel.
>
> What will be the terms for commercial usage of Mono?
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=420
(Hit the Play button to hear the sound of *crickets*).
--
In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things
happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I
think religious principles are quite valid.
-- Bill Gates, PBS interview with David Frost (November 1995)
Linonut
I am confounded by your density, and not disposed to repeat myself.
--
~
~
~
~
Hadron
Liarnut, you need to get some help. You're getting denser by the
day. Are you turning into a black hole or something?
Moshe Goldfarb
> ____/ Miguel de Icaza on Sunday 02 March 2008 22:49 : \____
>
>>> You do realize that you are dealing with RoySchestowitz, a paranoid Linux
>>> loony toon.
>>
>> The guy has a mancrush on me, so am familiar with his "work" and what
>> he
>> does to bring more adsense revenue to his web sites.
>>
>> miguel
>
> First of all, you're replying to a Microsoft troll who spreads libel, so I'm
> hardly surprised you cling onto that. Second of all, I've no touch with
> AdSense (it's Shane) and the last time I checked it was barely enough to even
> pay the hosting bill, so don't try to make it seem otherwise.
Yawn.
You make that claim all the time Schestowitz, and nobody believes you so
why don't you give it a rest?
Doug Mentohl
wrote:
> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the PC and Mac. That makes it cross platform ..
It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
Hadron
I don't understand.
It is cross platform. Nothing is redefined.
Cross Platform never meant ALL platforms. Usually people don't target
minority platforms where there is no ROI (return on investment).
Miguel de Icaza
I refer you to our licensing page, or to the wikipedia for the gory
details.
But the simple answer is that Mono is licensed under a combination of
GPL,
LGPL and MIT X11.
Additionally, we dual license the code for people doing embedded
systems
(like games).
Miguel.
Troy Kirkland
"Doug Mentohl" <doug_m...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:a96165ed-7a55-44e1...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
OpenOffice does not run on my PDP-11. So according to your "logic" (chrotle)
OpenOffice is not cross platform.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Doug Mentohl
>> You do realize that you are dealing with RoySchestowitz, a paranoid Linux loony toon.
> The guy has a mancrush on me, so am familiar with his "work" and what he does to bring more adsense revenue to his web sites.
You do realize you're addressing Gary 'flatfish' Stewart, the most
deranged long term troll on Usenet. I'd be very carefull in accepting
support from 'Moshe flatfish', that particular nutjob has been
personally stalking me since at least 2002 and stalking COLA in
general the best part of a decade. You really don't want 'wendy' on
your side .. :)
Both you and Roy would be better served by taking the discussion
elsewhere. This 'advocacy' group has been reduced to nothing more than
a hollow joke, with the more then willing participation of the
'advocates'.
Moshe Goldfarb
I think he might have had an illness about a month ago and now that he is
getting better he no longer needs the meds he was using.
I hope to see the old, and much more reasonable Linonut return to the group
soon.
Right now he is just a water boy for Schestowitz.
The Ghost In The Machine
<miguel....@gmail.com>
wrote
on Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:25:37 -0800 (PST)
<85e8b177-b1b8-453e...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>> Someone is going to have to define "application" properly
>> in this context. The entire system
>> (local + server [+ proxy]) is probably an application here.
>
> Silverlight is a client side technology, so we are going to deliver
> the components to run content that was created on Silverlight on Linux
> using Moonlight.
I'm still confused. Silverlight cannot *create*.
Perhaps the Silverlight SDK can, but not Silverlight
proper. It's a bit like using Adobe's Flash viewer to
create Flash content; can't be done (all AFAIK).
Also, AFAIK the SDK requires a valid Windows license.
It is still not clear what the application is here, since
one can make two cases.
[1] The provider provides content; Silverlight merely
views it (in a manner more efficient than Flash or native
browser plugins). Presumably, the provider in this case
is hewing to standards.
[2] The provider + the viewer comprise a system, which
efficiently transmits copyrighted material to the user in
a safe manner.
Is there going to be a Moonlight SDK for developing
Moonlight and/or Silverlight content? I for one hope so.
>
> At this point we have a feature complete 1.0 implementation, and we
> are working on three areas:
>
> * Fix all known bugs, pass all test suites
> * Improve performance
> * Integrate Microsoft's Media Pack into Moonlight.
I would have a request in this area: make it easy for
Gentoo to generate a build. Yeah, yeah, I know; I just
happen to like Gentoo. ;-)
>
> Miguel
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
fortune: not found
Miguel de Icaza
> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
Which is not different than any other open source project.
> 2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to not
> sue, for the use of any Microsoft Intellectual Property?
See the above link.
> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
> promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
> like Linux?
This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo.
Sadly there is no bumper-sticker answer, or I would gladly give you
that.
This is a multi-dimensional question, that requires all the nuances of
a
full blog post. You might want to read my interviews, my blog and
my position as stated on Slashdot.
> 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the
> Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without
> the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and
> other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the
> Netscape years?
Another question suitable for Teen magazine.
Replace "Silverlight" with Javascript in the above question. Can you
browse
the web without Javascript? You certainly can, but some sites do not
work
without it.
Or replace "Silverlight" with "Flash", you certainly can browse
youtube, but
you will not get much out of it without it.
People will adopt Silverlight when it solves a problem for them, and
each person
will have to evaluate whether Silverlight over another technology is
the right
match for the problem.
> 5) ... Do you further forsee the likelihood that the binary blobs, that
> you speak of, become a hard dependency in order to fully utilise the
> future Web, as it will be reborn in Microsoft's image, given the
> possibility that Microsoft may develop new proprietary and encumbered
> codecs, or enforce their Intellectual Property rights on Free
> implementations of existing codecs, such as those used in FFMPEG?
You are not required to use the binary blobs. You can build
Moonlight yourself
and use the FFMPEG codecs.
Novell will not be redistributing the FFMPEG based code due to the
conflict that
the LGPL has with the patents owned by MPEGLA (to which we will become
licensors).
> 6) ... Therefore do you concede that it is possible, and indeed likely,
> that the future of the Web (and in other contexts - office documents and
> software development) might end up becoming utterly dependent of
> Microsoft's Intellectual Property, and thus effectively controlled (in
> essence "owned") by Microsoft, just as they have been striving to do for
> so long, and have currently succeeded in other areas, such as the OEM
> channel; games development; hardware support; and elsewhere?
You seem confused, and you seem to be asking questions and answering
those
yourself.
> 7) ... And finally, do you think it is prudent, or even morally right,
> for Free Software developers to essentially help Microsoft in their
> endeavours to dominate the Web; office formats; and software
> development, particularly as Microsoft has continuously expressed so
> much contempt and hatred for the principles of Free Software and Open
> Standards over the years?
I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to read
my
blog on those subjects. There are two dimensions to this problem, and
I have addressed both: a) Microsoft providing a tool that people
actually
want to use, with a feature range of things that are genuinely useful
while
nobody else is; (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class
citizen
on the web when you are unable to watch content.
Miguel
Linonut
Indeed. "Cross-platform" is MicrosoftSpeak for "runs on many variants
of Microsoft Windows."
--
If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's
ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a
complete standstill today.
-- Bill Gates, Challenges and Strategy Memo (16 May 1991)
Linonut
>> What will be the terms for commercial usage of Mono?
>
> I refer you to our licensing page, or to the wikipedia for the gory
> details.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)#License
Developers contributing source code to Mono upstream must agree to
distribute their code to Novell under a license that allows Novell to
relicense the code under other licensing terms. This practice is
similar to copyright assignment agreements used in other free and
open source software projects (used in many GNU projects and by
MySQL), however, this method allows the developer to retain
copyright of the original work while still preserving Novell's
ability to commercially license Mono for specific customers that
require different licensing terms than what is provided in general
release versions (such as running Mono in embedded firmware
environments).
. . .
This has been summed up by Richard Stallman[8]:
Mono is a free implementation of Microsoft's language C#.
Microsoft has declared itself our enemy and we know that
Microsoft is getting patents on some features of C#. So I think
it's dangerous to use C#, and it may be dangerous to use Mono.
There's nothing wrong with Mono. Mono is a free
implementation of a language that users use. It's good to provide
free implementations. We should have free implementations of
every language. But, depending on it is dangerous, and we better
not do that.
On November 2, 2006, Microsoft and Novell announced a joint agreement
whereby Microsoft agreed to not sue Novell's customers for
patent infringement. According to Mono project leader Miguel de
Icaza, this agreement extends to Mono but only for Novell
developers and customers.
--
The worst programs are the ones where the programmers doing the original
work don't lay a solid foundation, and then they're not involved in the
program in the future.
-- Bill Gates
Linonut
>>
>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>
> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>
> Which is not different than any other open source project.
It sure as hell is different:
Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available
under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and
the GPL in their code.
For licensing details, contact mono-li...@novell.com
(mailto:mono-li...@novell.com)
>> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
>> promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
>> like Linux?
>
> This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo.
>
>> 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the
>> Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without
>> the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and
>> other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the
>> Netscape years?
>
> Another question suitable for Teen magazine.
>
> I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to read
> my blog on those subjects. There are two dimensions to this problem,
> and I have addressed both: a) Microsoft providing a tool that
> people actually want to use, with a feature range of things that
> are genuinely useful while nobody else is;
Isn't that statement rather, uh, arrogant?
> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web
> when you are unable to watch content.
You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert
citizens into second-class citizens on the web by virtue of restricting
their access to content to a format promulgated by a large, powerful,
and dominant corporation, requiring the relatively expensive purchase of
a proprietary (and unlicensed for production by any other vendor)
operating system.
--
We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and
underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten. Don't let yourself
be lulled into inaction.
-- Bill Gates
Hadron
Why would you do that?
You merely copy that info thus making yet another redundant copy. You
have made no comment and as usual your only currency is posting other
peoples work with no apparent understanding or use for it. Almost as bad
as HPT.
Troy Kirkland
"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:x0Wyj.5584$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>* Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>>>
>>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>>
>> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>>
>> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>>
>> Which is not different than any other open source project.
>
> It sure as hell is different:
Okay, it's actually better than most OSS projects.
> Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available
> under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and
> the GPL in their code.
So it's licensed as open source (GPL/LGPL) and can also be licensed under a
proprietary license for *those who can not use the LGPL/GPL in their code.*
What exactly is so confusing? Perhaps you don't have enough real world
experience to know that many organizations to not allow the use of LGPL/GPL
code. This allows those companies access to the technology.
> For licensing details, contact mono-li...@novell.com
> (mailto:mono-li...@novell.com)
>
>>> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
>>> promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
>>> like Linux?
>>
>> This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo.
>>
>>> 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the
>>> Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without
>>> the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and
>>> other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the
>>> Netscape years?
>>
>> Another question suitable for Teen magazine.
>>
>> I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to read
>> my blog on those subjects. There are two dimensions to this problem,
>> and I have addressed both: a) Microsoft providing a tool that
>> people actually want to use, with a feature range of things that
>> are genuinely useful while nobody else is;
>
> Isn't that statement rather, uh, arrogant?
How so?
>> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web
>> when you are unable to watch content.
>
> You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert
> citizens into second-class citizens on the web by virtue of restricting
> their access to content to a format promulgated by a large, powerful,
> and dominant corporation, requiring the relatively expensive purchase of
> a proprietary (and unlicensed for production by any other vendor)
> operating system.
It was phrased just fine the first time... before you decided to twist it
around to something that was never said or implied.
Hadron
> * Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>>>
>>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>>
>> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>>
>> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>>
>> Which is not different than any other open source project.
>
> It sure as hell is different:
LOL, Liarnut is getting all frisky.
Thread slink inevitable.
Bitch slapped by Schilling and heading for a slap from the original
Gnome developer.
Is no real OSS contributor safe from the know all arseholes in COLA?
>
> Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available
> under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and
> the GPL in their code.
>
> For licensing details, contact mono-li...@novell.com
> (mailto:mono-li...@novell.com)
>
>>> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
>>> promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
>>> like Linux?
>>
>> This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo.
>>
>>> 4) ... Do you foresee a point in the future where access to much of the
>>> Web might be impossible, or at least extraordinarily difficult, without
>>> the use of Silverlight, much like Microsoft tried to do with ActiveX and
>>> other proprietary; encumbered; and non-standard technology during the
>>> Netscape years?
>>
>> Another question suitable for Teen magazine.
>>
>> I have blogged extensively about this question, you might want to read
>> my blog on those subjects. There are two dimensions to this problem,
>> and I have addressed both: a) Microsoft providing a tool that
>> people actually want to use, with a feature range of things that
>> are genuinely useful while nobody else is;
>
> Isn't that statement rather, uh, arrogant?
What telling you he has already provided the information and has no
intention of typing it all in again you can ignore it and carry on
squealing like a little girl? No, it isn't. It is eminently sensible.
>
>> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web
>> when you are unable to watch content.
>
> You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert
> citizens into second-class citizens on the web by virtue of restricting
> their access to content to a format promulgated by a large, powerful,
> and dominant corporation, requiring the relatively expensive purchase of
> a proprietary (and unlicensed for production by any other vendor)
> operating system.
What a load of hot air.
The Ghost In The Machine
<lin...@bollsouth.nut>
wrote
on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:40:18 -0500
<CRVyj.5578$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
> * Doug Mentohl peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On 26 Feb, 16:05, Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the
>>> PC and Mac. That makes it cross platform ..
>>
>> It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
>
> Indeed. "Cross-platform" is MicrosoftSpeak for
> "runs on many variants of Microsoft Windows."
>
Well, obviously those are the only relevant platforms
anyway. Never mind that Unix:
- was ruling the roost in the engineering and in the server
side long before Microsoft even contemplated taking it
over in the NT 3.5 timeframe (and which Linux was far more
effective at sliding into than Windows ever was);
- solved a fair number of its porting problems long before
Microsoft even had to worry about it (though one might
claim Microsoft has a rather nicer solution, because
of various forks in among other places pseudo-ttys,
vfork/fork, and poll/select);
- runs and ran on far more platforms than Microsoft
Windows ever did (though in all fairness the current crop
of PC/PCI hardware is very very very different from the
PC-XT and even the PC-AT era stuff); ...
Microsoft is the only relevant platform.
To Microsoft, anyway. Any other platform comes along
(like Google), they'll [profanity] kill it.
(Uh...last I looked both Unix Google were still around, too.
Well, 2 1/2 out of 5, I guess; 4DOS, OS/2 and Netscape wrecked.)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random blunt knife here
Warning: This encrypted signature is a dangerous munition.
Please notify the US government immediately upon reception.
0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 ...
amicus_curious
"Doug Mentohl" <doug_m...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:a96165ed-7a55-44e1...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
amicus_curious
"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>* Doug Mentohl peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On 26 Feb, 16:05, Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the PC and Mac.
>>> That makes it cross platform ..
>>
>> It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
>
> Indeed. "Cross-platform" is MicrosoftSpeak for "runs on many variants
> of Microsoft Windows."
>
Mark Kent
>>
>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>
> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>
> Which is not different than any other open source project.
>
>> 2) ... To what degree do you trust ECMA and the RAND covenant to not
>> sue, for the use of any Microsoft Intellectual Property?
>
> See the above link.
>
>> 3) ... To what degree do you Trust Microsoft, either in terms of their
>> promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform
>> like Linux?
>
> This is a question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo.
>
Umm, it was going quiet well until this point. We're not talking about
Girls Aloud or Boyzone, we're talking about a company which has just
been fined E650millions for anti-trust violations, and has a lengthy
history of such activities which are well documented.
Even Mr Ballmer said today that Microsoft's biggest *threat* is Linux.
So, would you like to reconsider your response? Ballmer thinks that
Linux is a huge issue for Microsoft - how do you think that Microsoft
will behave with respect to Mono, considering their fear of Linux?
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |
Roy Schestowitz
Tes, got to have some competitive advantage, hey? ;-) You know, keep those
nasty Ubuntu feet on fire.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux: does exactly what it says on the tin
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 138 total, 1 running, 137 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
Roy Schestowitz
Well, duh. Why would Microsoft want to assist its own bankruptcy by having
its 'standard' support its worst of nightmares...?
Just the other day:
Feeling the heat at Microsoft
,----[ Quote ]
| A couple of years ago you reiterated that IBM was Microsoft's biggest
| competitor and you said not just on the business side, but overall. If I ask
| you who is Microsoft's biggest competitor now, who would it be?
|
| Ballmer: Open...Linux. I don't want to say open source. Linux, certainly have
| to go with that....
`----
http://www.news.com/Feeling-the-heat-at-Microsoft/2008-1012_3-6232458.html?tag=ne.fd.mnbc
Replace the standard (XHTML/Flash/Ajax), extend and extinguish. Novell will
then be thrown out of the limo crying. No sugar for the exploited 'partner'.
To Microsoft, Novell is a "one-night stand", a pawn.
http://www.iowaconsumercase.com/VolumeXXV-January52007
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9007527
January 08, 2007 (Computerworld) -- A Microsoft Corp. technical evangelist
referred to independent software developers writing for Windows and the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^--------- hey, Miguel, ya' readin' this?
company's other software platforms as "pawns" and compared wooing them to
convincing someone to have a one-night stand, according to testimony
presented Friday against Microsoft in an ongoing antitrust case in Iowa.
"If you've ever tried to play chess with only the pieces in the back row,
you've experienced losing, OK, because you've got to have those pawns,"
James Plamondon said in a Jan. 16, 1996, speech to members of Microsoft's
developer relations group. His comments were part of a transcript presented
as evidence in the Comes vs. Microsoft Inc. class-action lawsuit in Iowa.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Women blink twice as much as men
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 2 2008-01-24 14:06 last=
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
amicus_curious
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:p5ot95-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
> <lin...@bollsouth.nut>
> wrote
> on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:40:18 -0500
> <CRVyj.5578$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
>> * Doug Mentohl peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> On 26 Feb, 16:05, Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the
>>>> PC and Mac. That makes it cross platform ..
>>>
>>> It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
>>
>> Indeed. "Cross-platform" is MicrosoftSpeak for
>> "runs on many variants of Microsoft Windows."
>>
>
> Well, obviously those are the only relevant platforms
> anyway. Never mind that Unix:
>
> - was ruling the roost in the engineering and in the server
> side long before Microsoft even contemplated taking it
> over in the NT 3.5 timeframe (and which Linux was far more
> effective at sliding into than Windows ever was);
>
AutoCAD rules the roost today.
> - solved a fair number of its porting problems long before
> Microsoft even had to worry about it (though one might
> claim Microsoft has a rather nicer solution, because
> of various forks in among other places pseudo-ttys,
> vfork/fork, and poll/select);
>
Ancient history. Who cares now?
> - runs and ran on far more platforms than Microsoft
> Windows ever did (though in all fairness the current crop
> of PC/PCI hardware is very very very different from the
> PC-XT and even the PC-AT era stuff); ...
>
Any of those platforms still around?
> Microsoft is the only relevant platform.
>
> To Microsoft, anyway. Any other platform comes along
> (like Google), they'll [profanity] kill it.
>
Google is not a platform. Google is a click seller.
> (Uh...last I looked both Unix Google were still around, too.
> Well, 2 1/2 out of 5, I guess; 4DOS, OS/2 and Netscape wrecked.)
>
Unix is for upscale servers that need something better than Linux and where
the old timers are too stuck in their ways to learn about Windows 2008.
Hadron
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
> message news:p5ot95-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
>> <lin...@bollsouth.nut>
>> wrote
>> on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:40:18 -0500
>> <CRVyj.5578$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
>>> * Doug Mentohl peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> On 26 Feb, 16:05, Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the
>>>>> PC and Mac. That makes it cross platform ..
>>>>
>>>> It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
>>>
>>> Indeed. "Cross-platform" is MicrosoftSpeak for
>>> "runs on many variants of Microsoft Windows."
>>>
>>
>> Well, obviously those are the only relevant platforms
>> anyway. Never mind that Unix:
>>
>> - was ruling the roost in the engineering and in the server
>> side long before Microsoft even contemplated taking it
>> over in the NT 3.5 timeframe (and which Linux was far more
>> effective at sliding into than Windows ever was);
>>
> Uix/Linux on engineering workstations is pretty much a thing of the
> past. AutoCAD rules the roost today.
What happened to nym Hovnonian who was bullshitting us how his company
used "unix" Auto-CAD like tools since Auto-CAD didn't meet their
"needs". And then , when pressed, reckoned it was their own "in house"
proprietary stuff after all and not OSS tools. He soon ran off.
Erik Funkenbusch
>> Silverlight is a client side technology, so we are going to deliver
>> the components to run content that was created on Silverlight on Linux
>> using Moonlight.
>
> I'm still confused. Silverlight cannot *create*.
> Perhaps the Silverlight SDK can, but not Silverlight
> proper. It's a bit like using Adobe's Flash viewer to
> create Flash content; can't be done (all AFAIK).
Silverlight is the technology, not the viewer. Just like Flash is the
technology.
> Also, AFAIK the SDK requires a valid Windows license.
Wrong. Where did you hear that? Currently, there is only one GUI XAML
builder, and it's for Windows, but I understand the Mono team is working on
a builder too. You can always create XAML using any editor, since it's
just XML.
> Is there going to be a Moonlight SDK for developing
> Moonlight and/or Silverlight content? I for one hope so.
My understanding is yes.
Erik Funkenbusch
> * Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>>>
>>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>>
>> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>>
>> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>>
>> Which is not different than any other open source project.
>
> It sure as hell is different:
>
> Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available
> under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and
> the GPL in their code.
>
> For licensing details, contact mono-li...@novell.com
> (mailto:mono-li...@novell.com)
How is that different from QT, MySQL, or any of host of other open source
applications that offer proprietary licenses as well?
>> (b) whether its good for Linux to be a second class citizen on the web
>> when you are unable to watch content.
>
> You need to rephrase it. The question is whether it is good to convert
> citizens into second-class citizens on the web by virtue of restricting
> their access to content to a format promulgated by a large, powerful,
> and dominant corporation, requiring the relatively expensive purchase of
> a proprietary (and unlicensed for production by any other vendor)
> operating system.
You don't need to purchase anything to use Silverlight on Linux, either to
create or view using Mono.
Hadron
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:51:57 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>> * Miguel de Icaza peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) ... What proportion of Mono uses Microsoft's patented technology,
>>>> including that which is is part of the ECMA specifications?
>>>
>>> Read our policy on patents (Microsoft or otherwise):
>>>
>>> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
>>>
>>> Which is not different than any other open source project.
>>
>> It sure as hell is different:
>>
>> Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available
>> under a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and
>> the GPL in their code.
>>
>> For licensing details, contact mono-li...@novell.com
>> (mailto:mono-li...@novell.com)
>
> How is that different from QT, MySQL, or any of host of other open source
> applications that offer proprietary licenses as well?
You don't think for one minute that Liarnut actually read or understood
anything there do you? He's just posturing and showing off in his new
role as Roy's lapdog following the departure of Lapdog Colly.
Tom Shelton
> ____/ Doug Mentohl on Monday 03 March 2008 15:38 : \____
>
>> On 26 Feb, 16:05, Erik Funkenbusch <e...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft itself makes Silverlight available on both the PC and Mac. That
>>> makes it cross platform ..
>>
>> It's 'cross platform' except on Linux .. :)
>
> Well, duh. Why would Microsoft want to assist its own bankruptcy by having
> its 'standard' support its worst of nightmares...?
Then explain why Microsoft is providing technical assistance to the
Moonlight team - in the form of access to Silverlight engineers and
their test suites to test compatability?
--
Tom Shelton
Hadron
You must remember that Roy Schestowitz is technically inept. He recently
fell foul of various OSS contributors and looked very, very silly indeed
and ended up slinking away. The things he has not understood recently
include this stuff and ODF v OOXML. He is clueless. There is no point in
arguing or providing facts as the only voice he is interested in, is his
own. He is driven by an irrational hatred of Microsoft despite having
zero real world experience or industry exposure. Nothing he says is to
be trusted as all of it is tainted with the poison that runs through his
blood. A strange individual to say the least.