Re: Did I scare him off?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

BDR529 wrote:
>
> I'm talking about Andrew B Chung MD/PhD?

No :-)

So, be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?

[ken]

++__++

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman
( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Ken simply because we really love
him as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
Father.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/42797e450fd691c1?

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

[ken]

++__++

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman
( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Ken simply because we really love
him as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
Father.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/42797e450fd691c1?

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:a54e2bae-a3c6-4c0e...@u20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

> BDR529 wrote:
>>
>> I'm talking about Andrew B Chung MD/PhD?
>

Unfortunately Andrew Chung's posts are almost all of the cut and paste variety.

Pretty boring, oh and Andrew lose the religion - nobody wants to be bible bashed.
You don't have the corner on what jesus ate for breakfast.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"The general public has been sucked in to believing that decayed animals, diseased blood, sera, bacteria,
viruses, fungi, mucous, pus, urine, feces, antibiotics, formaldehyde, mercury derivatives, acetone, aluminum
and carbolic acid put into a mixture; shot through our greatest protector, our skin; directly into our blood
system is the answer to keeping us free of disease. How barbaric." --Pat McKay http://tinyurl.com/3h676j4

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

carole wrote:

> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > BDR529 wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm talking about Andrew B Chung MD/PhD?
> >

> > No :-)

>
> Unfortunately Andrew Chung's posts are almost all of the cut and paste variety.

Only as needed :-)

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for

[ken]

+~__~+

[ken]

~_~

[carole]

"carole" <hubbc...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:Qu%Qq.1890$%E2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...

That's ok chung, I wouldn't be bothered reading any of your posts since they are all cut and past.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Carole simply because we really
love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
Father.

Carole wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

> > Carole wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

> >> > Carole wrote:
> >> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> >>

> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/14c0ea104a61dafe?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hallelujah is "praise be to GOD" in Hebrew.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you were born-again (John 3:3 & 5), it would be right for those
> >> >> > of us who are born-again to pray that you be smarter:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
> >> >> >
> >> >> > However, you need to be born-again as evident by your not being able
> >> >> > to say "Jesus is LORD" with your mouth (Romans 10:9).
> >> >>
> >> >> But I don't believe in the "born again" phenomenon.
> >> >
> >> > You cannot believe it until you are born-again.
> >> >
> >> >> Why should being "born again" make you more fit for heaven over
> >> >> muslims, or other religions that done't believe in it?
> >> >
> >> > It is GOD and not religion that has changed our stony heart (Ezekiel
> >> > 11:19-20 & 36:36) to a softer one so that we are able to truly "agape"
> >> > love others as our LORD commands with all glory to GOD the Father.
> >>
> >> No, what you're practising is religion.
> >
> > Incorrect.
> >
> > Source:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/905ecd32466ea51b?
> >
> > A real personal relationship with our risen LORD Jesus Christ of
> > Nazareth is by definition not religion:
>
> Yes it is.

If that were true, a newborn infant's real personal relationship with
their mom would also be a religion.

This is simply not the case because everyone knows that newborn
infants are not religious:

http://WDJW.net/NoReligion

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/aa583d03f4486814?

Carole wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

> > Carole wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >>

> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/13497a868598f78e?
> >>
> >> Yes, but Andrew you are using the bible to prove that the bible is true.
> >
> > Incorrect.
> >
> > Testing what is written in the Bible happens outside the Bible and is
> > not using the Bible to prove that the Bible is true.
> >
> > With all due love and respect, can you, Carole, publicly say "Jesus is
> > LORD" with your mouth?
>
> But andrew ...

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/56d1eedaf9326580?

Didn't think you could:

http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

May GOD soften your heart so that you, Carole, would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

and Author of "Trust the Truth -
Only the truth can cure the 'hunger is starvation' delusion:"
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/1440147663/

"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?

What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/470799ce370a2ff2?

What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Ken]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results"

Ken

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

A crackpot wrote:

> However, you need to be born-again as evident by your not being able
> to say "Jesus is LORD" with your mouth (Romans 10:9).

You know, like this parrot can?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFGgScPd4YI

The crackpot wrote:
> [I'm] not a Bible teacher

Actual Bible teachers tell us that anyone can say the words "Jesus is
Lord" and what being Born Again really means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

A crackpot wrote:

> With all due love (Ro13:8) and kindness (Ep4:32), can you, ______,

> publicly say "Jesus is LORD" with your mouth?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Feb 12, 12:51 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

> Only the truth can cure the 'hunger is starvation' delusion:"http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/14401...
>
> "no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?
>
> What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/470799ce370a2ff2?

>
> What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

Get off the raw prawn, chung.

Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"Its pretty hard to keep in touch with reality when you see so little
of it."

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/1440147663/

[carole]

On Feb 13, 3:41 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

Andrew Chung is insane.


http://tinyurl.com/6wfav9l

WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health

PeterB repost.

"To : All participants and readers of sci.med,
misc.health.alternative, uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
Please be aware that many comments and responses posted to this forum
are not those of casual posters interested in an honest exchange.  A
number of individuals with ties to industry are attempting to shape
public thinking about the risks of mainstream medicine while attacking
the benefits and validity of natural medicine.  This activity is known
in the PR industry as “astroturfing.”  For obvious reasons, these
individuals do not promote a specific company or product, as might be
the case with standard "blogging" on a weblog, but there is a common
thread between industry blogging in a web blog and industry
participation in a newsgroup: both are done under the pretense that
the poster is not professionally affiliated.  Most of these people are
likely to be associated with a PR project whose "turfing" efforts are
underwritten anonymously by the media or marketing groups of industry.
 They are not difficult to identify due to specific patterns in their
posting.  Please familiarize yourself with these tactics so you can
identify them."



Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"Falling temperatures are rising" http://tinyurl.com/89dzgb9

[Jan Drew]

On Feb 5, 8:51 am, "Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD"

<metalicstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A crackpot wrote:
> > However, you need to be born-again as evident by your not being able
> > to say "Jesus is LORD" with your mouth (Romans 10:9).
>

> You know, like this parrot can?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFGgScPd4YI

>
> The crackpot wrote:
> > [I'm] not a Bible teacher
>
> Actual Bible teachers tell us that anyone can say the words "Jesus is
> Lord" and what being Born Again really means.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas
> andhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI

I'll take Jesus Christ's, and the Bible words rather than youtube.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV

http://misslink.org/born.html

http://www.cephasministry.com/salvation.html

[Jan Drew]

On Feb 6, 6:02 am, "Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD"

<metalicstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A crackpot wrote:

Showing you are not a born again Christian, rather a name caller.

I will pray for you.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Feb 18, 2:57 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

> love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
> Father.
>
>

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/book.html
MAJOR SECTIONS

Do you really think it all began with a sanctimonious Jewish wonder-
worker, strolling about 1st century Palestine? Prepare to be
enlightened.

Jesus – The Imaginary Friend
Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the
ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There
were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct. Nazareth did
not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-
cut tombs. Following a star would lead you in circles. The 12
disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise
the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin.
That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses.Scholars have known all
this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable
business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the
road. "Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure" ? Don't
believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical
figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.


carole
www.cellsalts.com

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
Father.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Feb 24, 9:20 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
wrote:


Jesus never existed
"The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery – of
hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to
war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague – is
incalculable.

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history"

* * *

New Testament written by the Piso family of Rome.

http://www.konformist.com/blasphemy/piso.htm

"ROMAN PISO FAMILY WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, INVENTED "JESUS"

"We Jews and Church Leaders have known since the beginning of
Christianity that it was synthesized by the Roman Piso family for the
purpose of maintaining control over the masses and to placate slaves.
And, this is why we Jews are the "Chosen People" and why we have
endured so much for so many years; we are witnesses to the lie. Our
ancestors wrote what they could about this in our texts.""

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[The Doctor]

In article <205a5942-939d-4566...@m3g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,
carole <hubbc...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>On Feb 24, 9:20=A0pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>Jesus never existed
>"The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery =96 of

>hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to

>war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague =96 is

>incalculable.
>
>Christianity is the worst disaster in human history"
>
>* * *
>
>New Testament written by the Piso family of Rome.
>
>http://www.konformist.com/blasphemy/piso.htm
>
>"ROMAN PISO FAMILY WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, INVENTED "JESUS"
>
>"We Jews and Church Leaders have known since the beginning of
>Christianity that it was synthesized by the Roman Piso family for the
>purpose of maintaining control over the masses and to placate slaves.
>And, this is why we Jews are the "Chosen People" and why we have
>endured so much for so many years; we are witnesses to the lie. Our
>ancestors wrote what they could about this in our texts.""
>
>carole
>www.conspiracee.com
>

Who wrote this Illuminati propaganda?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Birthdate : 29 Jan 1969 Croydon, Surrey, UK

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Feb 26, 12:09 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:


Roman Piso family authored the New Testament!

No such person as Jesus ever existed.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

You are quoting scholars from the 20th century. Lets quote
an author from the 2nd who heard Polycarp in his youth and
Polycarp knew the Apostle John, Irenaeus of Lyons.

"So Matthew ... issued a writting of the gospel...Peter and Paul
were preaching the gospel at Rome...after their decease, Mark, the
disciple
and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writting what
Peter


had preached. Then Luke, the follower of Paul, recorded in a book
the gospel as it was preached by him. Finally John, the disciple of
the


Lord,
who had also lain on his breast, himself published the Gospel,
while he was residing at Ephesus in Asia."


"Early Christian Fathers", Cyril C. Richardson, P 370

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

On Feb 24, 4:34 pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> In article <205a5942-939d-4566-8085-621099a37...@m3g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> carole  <hubbca2...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >On Feb 24, 9:20=A0pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >Jesus never existed
> >"The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery =96 of
> >hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to
> >war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague =96 is
> >incalculable.
>
> >Christianity is the worst disaster in human history"
>
> >* * *
>
> >New Testament written by the Piso family of Rome.
>
> >http://www.konformist.com/blasphemy/piso.htm
>
> >"ROMAN PISO FAMILY WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, INVENTED "JESUS"
>
> >"We Jews and Church Leaders have known since the beginning of
> >Christianity that it was synthesized by the Roman Piso family for the
> >purpose of maintaining control over the masses and to placate slaves.
> >And, this is why we Jews are the "Chosen People" and why we have
> >endured so much for so many years; we are witnesses to the lie. Our
> >ancestors wrote what they could about this in our texts.""
>
> >carole
> >www.conspiracee.com
>
> Who wrote this Illuminati propaganda?

Someone who didn't know much about history, or was counting on who
read it not to know much about history. Any credible non-Christian
historian will tell you it's poorly contrived bunk.

[carole]

On Feb 26, 7:46 pm, Martin <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:23:15 -0800 (PST), carole

> Carole, this is a newsgroup about alternative medicine.

But there are some in this ng who bring religion up.
Chung, Ironjustice, Leonardo been, and others.

I know this is not a religous group, and not even a conspiracy group,
yet conspiracy does come into things due to the way that alternative
remedies are suppressed and pharmaceutical drugs promoted.

Religion comes into things a little even if only to point out how
people are mind-controlled through fundamental religious conditioning.

The reply wasn't solely for your benefit martin. I know you think
you're the only person on the planet but newsflash, you're not.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

Carole, I don't mind your OT crossposting as much as I mind the fact
that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the
history of religion. Add to that, do you actually think "because Chung
does it" is a worthy defense?

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pisocake.html

On the "Roman Piso" theory

Many years back when I used to pick up copies of The Humanist for
entertainment, I recall seeing a small advertisement among the back-
matter ads that claimed to provide undeniable, irrefutable proof that
Josephus had authored the NT. The offerer was the "Abelard Reuchlin
Foundation." Well, these fellows are still around.

It would be an overstatement to say that no one takes this group --
whose overall thesis is that the NT was authored by members of an
aristocratic Roman family to keep slaves under control and submissive
-- seriously. In fact I can find only one writer who has even bothered
to address their claims in any detail, and that ironically enough was
racist Christ-myther Revilo P. Oliver. All Oliver did was address a
couple of technical claims they made (apparently their thesis ignores
that the Romans used very few of what we would call "first names"); as
for the rest, he didn't consider it worth his time.

What few other challenges to these ideas I have found have been to
merely describe the theory in one word or less as nonsense. I also
found a message board, with a message from a member of a Classics
Department at Calvin College, which said that he had not looked at the
Piso site on angelfire.com, but did say:

...I often use "angelfire.com" sites to illustrate to my students the
danger and indeed the absurdity of using websites indiscriminately
when they write their term papers. Some of the pages there are real
doozies.
And another classics scholar from Penn said:

THere's been a lively run of this on the sci.classics newsgroup. The
short form of this is that the Piso family is responsible for all
secular and sacred Greco-Roman-Christian history, all part of a vast
goof performed by them on unsuspecting modern scholars. It reads like
a huge collaborative parody of Leo Strauss composed by Borges,
Nabokov, and Eco, all under the influence of something they got from
Hunter Thompson.
That's about as seriously as the scholars seem to take it. Skeptics of
a more rational bent may also find this analysis by a Skeptic
interesting. Their summary: "This is one of the most obviously
laughable 'theories' I have seen on the web."

Well, that's enough generality. Shall we back that up with
particulars? Here are thematic statements from one favoring site:

We Jews and Church Leaders have known since the beginning of
Christianity that it was synthesized by the Roman Piso family for the
purpose of maintaining control over the masses and to placate slaves.
And, this is why we Jews are the "Chosen People" and why we have
endured so much for so many years; we are witnesses to the lie.

The New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation
of the Calpurnius Piso (pronounced Peso w/ long "E") family (a), who
were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in
it--Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples,
apostles, Paul, and John the Baptist--are all fictional.

Judaism's ethics and morality were incompatible with the hallowed
Roman institution of slavery on which the aristocracy fed, lived and
ruled. They feared that Judaism would become the chief religion of the
empire...Repeatedly, religious-minded Judaean zealots were staging
insurrections against the Herodian rulers of Judaea who were Piso's
wife's relations. Piso wished to strengthen his wife's family's
control of the Judaeans. The Pisos searched for a solution to the two
problems. They found it in the Jewish holy books, which were the
foundation both for the rapid spread of the religion and for the
zealot's refusal to be governed by Rome's puppets. The Pisos mocked,
but marveled at, the Jewish belief in their holy books. Therefore,
they felt a new "Jewish" book would be the ideal method to pacify the
Judaeans and strengthen their in-laws' control of the country.
That's actually enough for most people to dismiss these theorists out
of hand, but for completeness we'd like to put together a miscellany
of claims from this group and check them out. The following claims are
derived from various websites supporting this theory. Let's start with
a foundational claim from these folks:

The member of the Piso family who started it all was Arrius Calpurnius
Piso. He was the Roman general who captured the city of Jerusalem for
Rome in 66 CE (Common Era), and who, collaborating with Titus (a
relative) destroyed the temple there in 70 CE. In fact, both Zela
(religious center of Pontus) and Jerusalem were the sites of temples
that were destroyed: Julius Caesar destroyed the one in Zela in 47
BCE.
From here is is noted that this "Arrius" is none other than Flavius
Josephus himself, and it goes from there. But let's pause for a
moment, shall we? It seems rather curious that a Net search of the
name "Arrius Calpurnius Piso" turns up nothing but websites that
promote or support this theory. The name turns up nowhere on any site
dedicated to Roman history, Latin studies, or anywhere having to do
with serious scholarship. This is fairly telling, because the
existence of this fellow seems to be a root for many facets of this
theory:

Revelation 1:8 says "I am the Alpha and the Omega; the beginning and
the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to
come, the Almighty." The name Arrius Calpurnius Piso begins with Alpha
and ends with Omega. Could this be another way of Jesus (the Lord)
saying "I am Arrius Piso."? A general rule is that you can substitute
"Arrius Piso" wherever the "Lord" is referred to in the NT.
Revelation 13:18 says "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his
number is Six hundred threescore and six." The number is 600+(3*20)+6,
or 666. The "man" is both Jesus Christ and Arrius Calpurnius Piso!
Here's why: The number was expressed as Greek characters in the Greek
text of the New Testament. Ancient Greek had no "cypher" numbers (0-9)
as we have today. Instead, numbers were expressed using characters
from the Greek alphabet. The Ancient Greek Numbers that were used to
express the number 666 were Chi Xi Stigma. Chi stands for 600, Xi for
60 and Stigma for 6. Chi historically stood for "Christ", both because
of the sound of it, and because it appeared as a Greek cross. Could
the numbers 600 and 66, put together, mean "Christ is Arrius Piso."?
Is it an accident that the initials JC stand for Jesus Christ and
Julius Caesar? Is it an accident that the name given to Jerusalem by
Arrius Piso in 66 CE was Jupiter Capitolanum? Another JC.
Another promoting site says, "...Vitellius took control over the
empire as emperor. He was killed soon afterwards, by Arrius Calpurnius
Piso."

Really? Not according to Suetonius, who in The Twelve Caesars records
that Vitellius was killed by a group of soldiers who performed various
atrocities on him before throwing his body in the Tiber. No "Arrius"
makes as much as a bow.

This "Arrius" is also said to have to have headed Roman forces, and
along with Titus, "layed seige upon the Temple in Jerusalem in the
year 70 C.E." Yet Josephus makes no mention of such an Arrius (though
we'd guess that's because he was Arrius and was trying to hide it?).
We'd like the reader to note that there is no cite or source given for
this information, which is apparently typical for this consortium.
People are invented from this Piso family based on no more than a whim
and perhaps a presumption of an embedded code in the NT and other
documents. To put it simply, there is no evidence outside the theory
that "Arrius Piso" actually existed.

Here's another one of those types of claims:

Around the end of the reign of Hadrian (after 135 CE) Julius
Calpurnius Piso, the son of Arrius Piso, made a big mistake. He had
just conquered the Jews at Masada, after which the Jews scattered to
all corners of the earth. This was the infamous Diaspora. It was a
stunning (if brutal) victory, and Julius wanted to make the most of
it. He asked Hadrian to make his son successor to the Emperor, knowing
full well that if Hadrian refused, Julius would be obliged to commit
suicide. Hadrian refused.
There's quite the confusion here, since Masada was a last stand for
the Jews in 73 AD, not in the time of Hadrian, and the "Diaspora"
refers to Jews scattered among the nations even long before 70 AD. Not
that it matters, because this "Julius" seems to be another invention
of the theory. There was indeed a "Julius Piso" who was mentioned in a
letter of Pliny (see here) but he had nothing to do with the Jewish
War. The Roman commander at Masada was named Silva (Josephus, War
7.8). We are told that this Julius also wrote the book of Revelation.
Like Arrius, though, he is a phantom.

Also part of this package: numerology.

[Julius] Caesar was an in-law of the Piso family. His wife, Calpurnia,
was a Piso! He had married her to cement an alliance with Pontus. When
he went from the bed of Cleopatra to Pontus in 47 he betrayed that
alliance. It was perceived by the Pisos as the act of a traitor, and
they swore their revenge.
Three years later, in 44 BCE, on the 15th day of the 3rd month, Julius
Caesar was stabbed 23 times by conspirators who included Piso family
members. The assassination of Julius Caesar is full of clues. His
given name, Julius, was written IVLIV in the Latin of his day. Make
note of the fact that the number 4 is IV in Roman numerals. Thus the
number 44 can be seen to be contained in his very name.
In case you're wondering how this was arranged: it seems to be part of
the plan that the Pisos also orchestrated our system of reckoning
years and numbering them BC and AD.

The 15th day of the 3rd month contains another clue. If you divide 15
by 3 you get three 5's. The Roman numeral for 5 is V. Thus the day of
Caesar's death contains three V's, referring to his phrase VENI VIDI
VICI.
Caesar was stabbed 23 times. There were exactly 23 letters in the
Latin alphabet of his day. This indicates that we are to use old Latin
as a cypher.
Apparently any number is fair game here; and any way it can be
associated is fair game as well. Julius Caesar is a real important
person for this thesis; here's another example. Noting his famous
"Veni vidi vici" phrase, they write:

The infamous number 666, for example, is simply VIVIVI, which refers
to VenI VidI VicI. Get it? Oh yes, you will say that 666 is really
DCLXVI. Yes, it is, but it also can cleverly be represented as VIVIVI,
and the Pisos were very clever. They knew people would throw
themselves off the track by their need to be literal.
That's the answer when the data doesn't cooperate: It was actually a
"very clever" way of hiding things from people not in on the joke.
Here's more:

The number 666 can also be expressed as VI VI VI. If you take the
three V's and form a triangle, and then take the three I's and form
another triangle, and then overlap the two "against" each other you
will form a Star of David. This is yet another way that the number 666
points to the Jews.
You can also rearrange all the pieces, but wouldn't three V's make two
triangles plus one line, without the Is? That makes three total.
Elsewhere it is said:

Notice that the phrase "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him." contains VENI VIDI
VICI! He came. They saw. They pierced (conquered) him. It describes
what happened at Zela in 47 BCE, and the assassination that followed
three years later. They saw him coming with his troops, and they
pierced him 23 times as a result of it.
"Pierced" = "conquered"? And it took place over three years? More more
undocumented creativity follows:

When a Roman needed to attend to nature he or she would say something
like "Time to turn water into wine." This was a joke, of course, for
the act of urination was something like transforming water magically
into a kind of 'wine' - urine. Knowing this, can you ever again think
that Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding at Capurnaum was a
"miracle?" It was written into the New Testament by the Romans so that
everyone in Rome, except the slaves of course, would get a belly
laugh.
You won't find any documentation of such a phrase used by Romans, but
we wonder whether the priests of Dionysus would have caught on. More
yet:

In Latin the word "pistor" (baker) was, like the word "ippos", used by
the Piso family to refer to themselves. Could it be that when we read
in the Lord's Prayer "Give us this day our daily bread." we are
actually reading a request for more "bread" from the Piso family
bakery that cooked up the Jesus story?
Yes, and "Piso" is like "pistis" or the faith we are to have in Jesus.
Isn't it useful how the Greek and Latin languages evolved so
conveniently for this scheme?

Some other ideas by this thesis: Emperor Trajan wrote as Plutarch;
Pliny wrote the Pastoral letters (and actually died in a battle
against the Jews in 116 AD, fighting under a different name); a son of
Arrius (Josephus) wrote the Gospel of John and wrote as Justin Martyr.
But wait, there's more:

Is it a coincidence that the Piso family originated in Pontus, and
there is a character in the NT named Pontius Pilate? Pontus was an
ancient country that was located on the southern coast of the Black
Sea, province of Cappadocia. The Latin name of the Black Sea was
Pontus Euxinus. Did you ever wonder where the name Pontius Pilate came
from? Perhaps it was to commemorate the origins of the Piso family.
One of the Piso family ancestors was named Pilatus.
Not a shred of documentation if offered for any of these claims, and
if you wonder whether they care that Pontius (not Pontus) Pilate is
regarded as a real person by Tacitus, we should note that Tacitus was
thought to be in on this conspiracy as well. More: The English
language is in on the conspiracy, too --

I'm not sure if this means anything, but the word fool is used exactly
66 times in the King James Bible: 57 times in the Old Testament. The
writers of the NT would have had to make up 9 uses of the word "fool"
to make it come out to 66.
The problem here is that the KJV translates a few different words as
"fool" (nabal, cakal, 'eviyl, keciyl to name four in the Hebrew, and
aphron and moros to name two in the Greek). But maybe the KJV
translators were Pisos also? In fact, we'll see something like this
suggested by the lead theorist below.

Curious Jesus. They inter-changed the words that they use when they
say 'Lord'. Sometimes using 'despotes' (despot), but mostly using
'curie'/'curios' meaning not only 'Lord', but also 'curious',
'strange', or 'mysterious'. This is a big hint at what they were
doing, especially when mentioned in conjunction with statements such
as "the mystery of the Gospels." They take they Latin word 'curia' and
then turn it into its masculine form in Greek to get 'curios'. Julius
Piso hints at what they were doing in 'Revelations' 18:8, "... for
strongly curious is the God that judgeth her." And Julius even ends
'Revelations' snidely, saying in Rev. 22:20; "Yes, come, curious
(Lord) Jesus!" Rev. 22:21; "Saints!, praise the Revelations of John!"
And that, of course, made them want to exclude 'Revelations' from the
canon.
"Kurios" (Lord) in Greek matched with "curious" in English? Not
hardly. We have been advised that "curious" comes from a word
curiosus, which means "conscientious" and has no linguistic derivation
from the Greek "kurios".

The 'Abba' issue. In the New Testament, Jesus, dying on the cross,
calls out to God using the word 'abba' - 'father'. And lo, and behold,
we find Josephus using this same word while describing something
similar in Chapter 8, verse 7, of 'Wars of the Jews'.
The proper title is actually "The Jewish War," and there are 7 books
that have a chapter 8 in them. Not one describes anything
"similar" (well - similar to what?) and we might add that Jesus did
not use the word "Abba" on the cross.

We find 'the Egyptian' mentioned in Acts 21:38, and also in Josephus!
The 'Egyptian' referred to was Arrius Piso/Josephus, because Arrius
Piso was also 'Philo of Alexandria' (in Egypt), and he is descended
from the 'Ptolemies' of Egypt, and because he is of Idumean (Edomite,
i.e., 'Egyptian') descent. Not to mention the fact that being a
descendant of King David, he has the blood of the Egyptian Pharaohes
in him, because King Solomon (David's son), was married to a Pharaoh's
daughter!
Solomon had hundreds of foreign wives -- how do we conclude this
descent? You will be relieved to know as well, "In the N.T., Jesus is
tempted to jump from the Temple in the exact same place that we find
described in Josephus!" Described in Josephus...where? It isn't said.

Apparently God is going to hell! In Matthew 5:22 Jesus says: "but
whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." And
in Luke 12:20 "But God said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul
shall be required of thee." In other words, Jesus says that he who
says "thou fool" shall be in danger of hell fire, and then God says
"Thou fool"! So, God is in danger of hell fire!...This is either a
joke, or an egregious error.
However, the former "fool" is a moros and the latter (and 1 Cor.
15:36) is an aphron.

These folks also claim all manner of sexual jokes behind the NT text;
for example, "that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"
is said to have sexual innuendos. Likewise, such phrases as "he arose,
took up his bed and went" (Mark 2:12), "many knew him" (Mark 6:33),
and "having eyes, see ye not?" (Mark 8:18), "eyes" being a codeword
known only to Roman aristocratic sorts for another part of the body,
one that is active when you sit down, if you get my drift.

Acts, we are told, was written to advertise locations of Roman
brothels. I'll just let you think about all of that. One of their
sources for this sort of thinking is one James Hannay -- a British
chemist of the 19th century known for an experiment in which he
artificially produced minute quantities of diamond. In other words,
this is someone who as had no business drawing the conclusions he did.
It is interesting to note that "Abelard" was a saint supposedly
castrated for his tendency to lasciviousness.

A reader wrote to one of these folks and got some interesting
information. As we have noted in several points here Christianity was
a social movement top-heavy by proportion with members of the middle
and upper class, and less heavy than would be expected with the lower
class and slaves; we have also noted numerous social factors that made
Christianity unpopular with Rome. The Piso Family thesis has an answer
for this:

...why does it seem that the Romans hated Christianity? After all,
didn't they "throw the Christians to the lions" in the Coliseum? The
last thing the Roman rulers wanted was for the slaves to catch on to
the fact that the Romans wrote the New Testament. If they had said
"Here, slaves, is a religion made just for you, and we endorse it."
the slaves would have done anything but become Christians. Isn't that
obvious?
And our reader was told of "The facade of Roman dislike of
Christianity":

They had to create the illusion that they were not involved in
creating it, so they would not be suspected. Thus, they had to play
the part of not knowing anything about it (as Pliny the Younger does),
and/or being indifferent to it or disliking it hence the writings
about (false) persecutions
Other "facades" include:

The facade of "What the War Was About." Since the Romans were really
the "bad guys," they could not let that fact be known. If the public
knew the true nature of the war, they would have revolted against Rome
just as the Jews did.
The facade of the idea of "Foreigners." There could hardly have been
any real foreigners in the way that we are led to believe because of
the cooperation of all major rulers in many different lands and the
genealogical data that allows us to see how these rulers were related
to each other and/or had the same common ancestors, and knew this.
This latter "facade" is especially in opposition to what we know about
ancient social networks and ideas of collectivist "in-groups" -- see
link above.

The facade of Dynasties. They had to create the illusion that there
were dynasties so that the public would never know of the perpetual
rule by the same family. Most, if not all, of these rulers were very
cruel and extremely harmful to the public. If the public knew that if
this were the true case, they would not have stood for it. Illusions
were created to make the public think that if, for example, someone
could rise in rank in the military, he stood a chance to become
Emperor! This was a very powerful idea for people enduring so much
misery.
The facade of authors speaking forthrightly and honestly. Ancient
authors were royals, and yet they could not say so. By necessity, they
had to lie about who they were and about much of what they said in
their writings. They tried not to lie when they did not have to
because they made use of devices such as disclaimers and said truthful
things - in deceptive ways! For many hundreds of years, the general
public has believed these ancient authors to be who they claimed to be
and as if they wrote in an honest fashion.
The facade of many different people writing. Since only the royals
were doing the writing and recording of history as well as Biblical
texts, it was necessary that they made it appear that more people
wrote than actually were...Thus, the authors played many parts and
wrote using alias names to accomplish this. Arrius Piso, for example,
wrote as Flavius Josephus, as well as Philo of Alexandria in addition
to writing Biblical texts!
The conspiracy, obviously, is quite vast. I think it enough to state
that all of this is merely assumed for the sake of the theory, not
shown by evidence. But don't dare tell them that. Our reader sent us a
record of a conversation between a somewhat more rational atheist and
the lead theorist in the Piso camp. This atheist stated:

The Piso theory contends numbered scrolls existed in the first
century. No such scroll have been found. No secondary documentation
even exists that alludes to such scrolls. The destruction of Pompeii
and Herculean in the first century AD froze a period in time. The
private libraries of at least one on the members of the inner circle
was preserved. It had no numbered text. This proved to be an
embarrassment to those who claimed they existed. They know have to
concoct wild scenarios where the scrolls are removed to another
location, and loved ones are left behind.
Now we cannot vouch for the accuracy of this person's statements, but
we do wish to note the leader's answer:

What we had said about numbered scrolls (chapter and verse) is that
the Pisos had their OWN private copies that were numbered. And of
course, the chances that those scrolls will be found is nearly zero.
They were not meant for the public to see/find. They were kept in
private family archives for as long as they needed them to be. The
numbered copies that were produced for the King James Bible made use
of those original ancient numbers which were pulled out of the
original ancient texts, because it was SAFE to do so after all of
those hundreds of years. And the fact that others had made the attempt
to number the biblical texts just prior to the KJV, is just red-
herrings so that one could make arguments regarding the claims of
anyone such as ourselves. The plan was probably made right from the
start as to just when or if numbered texts should ever be made
available to the public. What you need to understand is that we are
dealing with those of extreme genius. It is necessary to think as they
did in order to understand how they made this all work.
Do you get that? This is a work of conspiratorial genius. And if you
disagree? The leader has the answer:

You need to educate yourself to a higher level so as to be able to
understand these things. As I had said before, you are operating under
illusions. You need to get beyond being trapped by those facades.
When one realizes that those who were writing and producing ancient
history were in complete control of ALL that would be left to us in
terms of evidence, then the threshold in terms of WHAT evidence is,
changes. And that is what you have yet to understand. WE are not in
any way in control of what evidence there is. We are entirely
dependent upon what evidence was deliberately left by the perpetrators
themselves. Understand? That, is the true nature of what we are
dealing with in the study of ancient history.
This is a broad and extremely complicated subject. It requires genius
level thought, and sage dedication to understand fully. It is nothing
that can be acheived by amateurs who do not have the ability to know
when they are being deceived by ancient authors by any method or
means.
I think this all speaks for itself in terms of illustory suppositions
of grandeur. One final word from the lead theorist:

Our work, ultimately, is the ONLY way in which humanity has any real
hope of ever gaining sanity. It is the only way in which real security
for all will ever be achieved, as it effects so many other things. As
I can, I have been trying to reveal this to you all for some time now
in the form of various articles and subject matter. And I will
continue to do so. But I think it is also important that you know just
what the ultimate goal is. It is to enable future generations to think
clearly, to learn how to learn, and to know how their own minds work.
These very simple things are necessary for any person to be sane. So,
our goal, via exposing the truth, is to change an insane world into a
sane one. And, that is the truth.
The reality of the situation was that I was a sane person living in a
world that was comprised mostly of insane people. Now, how is that for
a shocker! What a huge thing to realize. I had already known that
nearly everyone was very different that I, in that they were not
actively seeking the truth about life and the world in which we all
live. They, for the most part, simply accepted the illusion of reality
which they saw around them. And I knew that. Which, in and of itself,
was indeed alarming, but at that point, I had not yet fully understood
the great impact of this, nor had I realized that this phenomenon was
actually worldwide. I did, however, realize that even people of the
highest rank in our society were taken in by those illusions.
It's not necessary to say much more about this theory. It seems to be
the sort of thing that one derives from supermarkey tabloids -- only
far more creative. In any event, it amounts to this: The Piso theory
is based not on evidence of any kind, but on exceptionally creative re-
readings of evidence.

Reply from the Piso Family Theorist

When I told a classical scholar of our acquaintance of the Roman Piso
theorem, his response was a "WHAT?" with enough question marks
attached to go off screen, and a remark that such people were not
worth responding to. I slightly disagree, assuming one seeks a certain
entertainment value, and this is about what we got from the lead
theorist (whose name we cannot discern, so we shall just call him "the
leader") of the Piso theory.

The leader caps-titles his response, "A REPLY BY THE NEW CLASSICAL
SCHOLARSHIP (N.C.S.) REGARDING THE AUTHORSHIP OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BY
THE ROMAN PISO FAMILY." To begin (and throughout his response) he
seems particularly and petulantly offended that (he thinks) we did not
know that he calls his school of thought, "THE NEW CLASSICAL
SCHOLARSHIP".

We did know that he uses this name, and it is of no moment. Give me 20
minutes and I will start a cost-free website advertising "THE NEW
QUANTUM PHYSICS" revealing that all of quantum physics as we
understand it as wrong, and that atoms actually spell out secretly-
coded messages laying out a new theory of physics.

The leader is far off base in supposing that the designation is in any
sense meaningful, or that there is actually anything from his self-
designated school that supposedly overturns the "old" classical
scholarship. Well then, I designate myself the author of the NEWER,
EVEN BETTER CLASSICAL SCHOLARSHIP.

Don't expect the leader to have more than this to offer. With
reference to my note from Oliver, the leader assures us that his "NEW
CLASSICAL SCHOLARSHIP" takes care of that, and that it has
"discovered" so much the old scholarship doesn't know, namely, that
the Romans were very good at creating facades, but we still don't get
any actual proof of this, just the same old begged question that a
conspiracy is at work.

Oliver's note about the use of Roman names is not actually addressed.
Rather, we are treated to a story about how the royal Romans made use
of aliases, how they had conclaves with each other to plot against the
common people -- and so on, with not one scintilla of proof offered
other than the samed begged question that a conspiracy is afoot.

In terms of using a cost-free website as a medium -- as opposed to
peer-reviewed journals -- we are told that this is "being adverse to
those who are not spending money just to have a website. It is saying
that because a person or group has not paid out money for a website
that immediately we must ASSUME that their information is invalid or
untrue."

No, it runs deeper than that, and actually has nothing to do with the
money. Persons with free websites who promote ideas that run
completely contrary to accepted ("old" -- i.e., with a proven track
record) scholarship, who refuse to be open about their own
credentials, who use an alias while refusing to be open about their
identity even privately (the leader makes the claim that "religious
zealots" may try to harm or kill him, and that "paid" websites suggest
backing by special interests), are immediately suspicious and mark
themselves as unworthy sources.

As I often told people in Internet classes, give me 10 minutes in a
public library and I will have a site up selling cancer cures, and
people will buy it, and I'll be out of town with a lot of money before
the police can come. If the Piso theory has a worthy word to say then
why isn't anything he says recorded in The Journal of Roman Studies?
Calling such venues representative of "OLD" scholarship is not an
answer. Calling them "biased" is not an answer. Calling it "valuable
information" begs the question.

After likewise designating the scholar from Penn as "ignorant" and
biased, and after designating the member of that Skeptical list as
like one "putting your head in the sand", and claiming that his NEW
scholarship will "replace the idea of history" as we know it -- bear
in mind how easy it would be to do the same promoting a NEW QUANTUM
PHYSICS -- we get to where I spoke of some particulars, and offered
some thematic statements from a site sympathetic to the theory.

We're told yet again that we just don't understand, and it is said,
"Real scholars do not laugh at new ideas. They investigate them and
try to understand them."

Indeed? So if I go to MIT right now and give them the "new idea" that
atoms actually spell out secret messages, I suppose they should
"investigate and try to understand" that rather than call security to
kick me off the campus. The leader goes on for several sentences about
how his critics are lazy, ignorant, irresponsible, and so on --
verbiage which can be easily reproduced by anyone in place of getting
actual evidence to the fore.

Now we get to where I quoted a Piso-sympathetic website about Arrius
Calpurnius Piso as a Roman general who captured Jerusalem. The leader
immediately distances himself from the quotel, saying it is from a
place that is "NOT an official New Classical Scholarship site".

Oh? My article was a profile of people using this entire family of
claims; "official" (one free website) or "unofficial" (some other free
website) made no difference to me in context. Not that it matters --
by his own logic, since when does the leader have the right to dismiss
such people? We may say: Why don't you instead be a "real scholar" and
"try to investigate and understand" this variation on the theory? Why
can't the other fellow say (as the leader does), "Well, he's just
IGNORANT and BIASED. He needs to address the EVEN NEWER CLASSICAL
SCHOLARSHIP that supersedes the NEW CLASSICAL SCHOLARSHIP." Is it
becoming clear what little foundation this thesis has?

The leader likewise distances himself from the other site's statement
that Arrius was actually Josephus, and issues a vague retort that, "I
have explained to several people just this week that it is not
reasonable to expect to find enough information at this point in time
on the Internet about this subject as in order for that to happen
there first have to be several books out on the subject so that people
can quote from them and post that information!"

All right, so -- when can we have these books? He says, "The books
will be out in the coming years and so that information will not find
its way to the Internet for a few years from now."

Really? It is now 2009; the leader wrote this in 2003 -- and still no
sign of these books. In fact, the site responding to me has articles
that have not been updated in ten years or more.

The leader is apparently is online with the idea of affirming an
Arrius Piso; to my note that this name appears nowhere on sites
devoted to Latin history and such, he agrees and says, "So what? The
author was simply looking in the wrong place."

Really? So where's the "right place"? What ancient Roman work of
history? What inscription mentioning Arrius Piso as a real person?

There is no such thing. There wouldn't be, the leader tells us,
because after all, this was something that the "Old Classical
Scholarship" doesn't get because they can't read between the lines and
see how these Roman "royals" were fooling n everyone, and if Arrius
was actually mentioned clearly somewhere, that would defeat the
purpose. It's like the painting of the cow eating grass. But it's
blank, you say. A white canvas. Well, the cow ate the grass, the
leader replies. But there's no cow, you say. Well, the leader retorts,
you didn't expect the cow to stick around if there was no grass, did
you? Don't you understand the NEW METHOD OF REALISTIC PAINTING?

The leader does assure us, though, that Arrius Piso's name was given
in literary works; it was just "given in the ONLY way in which he
could give it - in a way in which it could be hidden and not obvious."
How? "...not all together as one name." I.e., an Arrius over here on
page 4, a Piso here on page 72.

All right then. Using that method in 2003, I can decode a secret world
ruler named Saddam Blair Bush from the daily newspaper. Just in case,
we are assured that the leader has some evidence up his sleeve which
he hasn't made public yet. It's all very convenient. Thus when I noted
that Suetonius didn't say anything about Arrius Piso killing
Vitellius, we are assured:

Yes, he does! Suetonius DOES say that Arrius Piso killed Vitellius.
But he was using one of Arrius Piso's alias names to do so. And this,
is what the author does not understand. Suetonius says, "The officer
(official) who dispatched (killed) him was one Antonius Primus, a
native of Toulouse, and his boyhood nickname had been Becco
('rooster's beak')." Ref. Suetonius, 'The Twelve Caesars', Vitellius,
the last paragraph. Of course, the average person would not know this
or how to tell that Arrius Piso used that alias name let alone the
many other alias names he used. He used so many alias names in fact,
that we have yet to discover them all. Where did he get these alias
names?
So it's all a secret code using one of the many convenient aliases
that this non-existent Arrius Piso used. Well, why not come up with
something for the EVEN BETTER CLASSICAL SCHOLARSHIP?

"Primus" is a secret code not for Arrius Piso, but for a fellow named
"Optimus Primus" who owned a Roman chariot consortium. He wanted
Vitellus dead because he wouldn't renew the Roman military chariot
contract.

What, leader? It's a new idea, don't laugh at it, investigate it. The
only reason you don't agree is because you lack discipline and ability
to see it.

When it gets down to where we are told that we're just too "average"
to grasp all these secret codes whether in Suetonius or the Bible,
when we are told that recognizing all this secret material takes
"discipline" and "ability" that only the leader possesses, that there
was a conspiracy by unevidenced Roman royals that has fooled all
classical scholars today; that these same royals "anticipated" that
future atheists and non-Christians would not take the the NT seriously
and so put secret codes in it to prove that Christianity was a hoax;
and that the "whole reality of history" is changed by someone with no
reported credentials and a free website...it's past time to take this
seriously.

The leader also distances himself from the sympathetic site's bit
about Julius Piso and Hadrian, and offers a replacement from the
Reuchlin route:

"Jesus, as a hen gathering her chickens in Matt. 23:37… And the term
Gollus, for the dispersion (Diaspora) which he ultimately caused. It
was only after the second destruction that the Jewish literature
referred to both dispersions (Diaspora) as Gollus" (Ref. 'The True
Authorship of the New Testament', Abelard Reuchlin, pg. 11-12).
What this has to do with anything isn't said. I didn't say a word
about a Gollus or a Diaspora under Hadrian, so even if this is true
(for what it may be worth) it makes has no affect on what I have
written. Then we are told:

This leads us to the verge of discussing just HOW the authors of that
time could refer to Arrius Piso without mentioning his real name; he
was alluded to by using his many alias names which had their origin in
his ancestry. He is referred to as "Gallus" or Gollus, because of his
ancestral name of "Pollo/Pollio," which means "chicken." However, to
explain this so that the reader will understand it as I do would take
many cross-references to illustrate and is not possible without all of
the related material; and that would require not just one book, but
several.
So Arrius Piso conveniently had yet another alias to add to the list
(how many is that now?); and there's a linguistic connection between
"Gallus" and "Pollio" that it would take several books to explain. We
don't doubt it; the linguistic convolutions required to get there
would no doubt take years of writing to make clear.

We are then told, "Let it suffice here to make mention only of this
with regards to Arrius Piso being 'Gallus'; the second Diaspora was
called 'Gollus' by the Jews (I have also seen it referred to as "the
Galuth"), because it was caused by Mr. Gallus - Arrius Piso."

The leader has this much right: the terms "galus" (one "L") and
"galuth" are used for Jews living outside Israel -- as in, in exile
and as a punishment. And it's related to a Hebrew word galah. So this
mysterious "Arrius Piso", whose name conveniently is unattested in any
source except by "disciplined" research, has yet another alias, also
likewise found only by "disciplined" research. I see.

Among the further assurances we have are that this Arrius Piso (still
yet proven to exist) has "ancestors on the Flavian side of his family"
who "derive from a family whose name was 'Pollo' or 'Pollio,' which is
'chicken.'"

And the evidence for these persons existing is? Not given. Arrius we
are told also had another couple of aliases, "Cestius Gallus" and the
"Antonius Primus" who killed Vitellius. Proof? Why, it's simple.
Here's what Suetonius says:

Vitellius died at the age of fifty-six; nor did his brother and son
outlive him. The omen of the rooster at Vienne (noted above) had been
interpreted as meaning that a Gaul would kill him - gallus is both a
'cock' and a 'Gaul'. This proved correct: the officer (official) who
dispatched (killed) him was one Antonius Primus, a native of Toulouse,
and his boyhood nickname had been Becco ('rooster's beak').
So, we are told, Suetonius, referring to Antonius Primus as a "Gallus"
is the secret codeword identifying Arrius Piso.

The Hebrew word galal was also inserted in the OT by the Romans, I
suspect. So 2 Samuel 15:19 proves that chickens were given refuge in
ancient Israel, for it actually says, in secret code, "Then said the
king to Ittai the Gittite, Wherefore goest thou also with us? return
to thy place, and abide with the king: for thou art a stranger, and
also a chicken."

And why not an allusion to gala, the Greek word for milk? So Peter
actually says, "As newborn babes, desire the sincere chicken of the
word, that ye may grow thereby..."

But wait. "Pollo" sounds like the Greek polus, meaning "many", but in
the NT is a secret code indicating that Jesus was a chicken farmer.
(Read: "When he was come down from the mountain, chicken multitudes
followed him.")

Such is the Piso theory: Agrand circle of word-sound association, with
no concern for etymology, with "proofs" constituted not by evidence
but by bald and undocumented assertion, suspicion and conspiracy,
secret codes behind any and every word. And the leader admits to our
suggestion that Tacitus was in on this conspiracy, yes: "...ALL of the
authors of that time were royals who were pretending to be other
people by using alias identities; and yes, this includes Tacitus.
Tacitus was actually Neratius Priscus." I probably should not have
said anything as I may have just expanded the theory.

The leader again creates distance between himself and the sympathetic
site -- though he objects that some translations of Josephus use the
title "Wars of the Jews" (or variants like "History of the Jewish War
Against the Romans" -- he claims the latter is the correct title, but
no, it's a little hard to get all of that out of just Bellum Iudaicum)
then in response to my implied requesr for more precise evidence on
things like Arrius being Philo and descended from Pharaohs, we're told
that the "information can be found elsewhere and eventually in
upcoming books on the subject." Which still do not seem to be out here
in 2009, however.

Then we are told just how far back this really goes:

But the fact of the matter is that the Bible was composed by ancient
royals and the family line of those royals extended back to the author
of Genesis. And that author, was a Pharaoh. He was Arrius Piso's
ancestor.
And further, in answer to my question re:

"In the N.T., Jesus is tempted to jump from the Temple in the exact
same place that we find described in Josephus!" Described in
Josephus...where? It isn't said. Just take their word for it, it's in
there.
The leader assures us, "As for the place where 'Jesus' is tempted (in
the story) to jump from the Temple (Matt. 4:5; Luke 4:9), that may be
found in the Whiston translation of the works of Flavius Josephus
(Book V, Chap. V, paragraph 5 & 6), pg. 555)."

All right, I have that right here. It's there, all right -- as part of
a huge, chapter-long description of the Temple complex. Josephus
spends the whole chapter describing the Temple complex in loving and
complete detail, right down to the sharp points on the roof made to
keep birds from landing and making messes all over the place. Jesus
could have jumped from the front porch and "the exact same place"
would be there, too.

I noted that:

Acts, we are told, was written to advertise locations of Roman
brothels. I'll just let you think about all of that. (One of their
sources for this sort of thinking is one James Hannay -- a British
chemist of the 19th century known for an experiment in which he
artificially produced minute quantities of diamond. In other words,
this is someone who as usual had no business drawing the conclusions
he did.
I think the leader's reply here is worth quoting in full:

Now the author continues to show his sloppy work again. He has found a
different James Hannay and thinks that it is the same one which was
referred to! He has not bothered to find a book by James Ballantyne
Hannay; but again appears to only rely upon a quick websearch for his
information. The author has by now demonstrated time and time again
that he actually possesses only a cursory knowledge of ancient Roman
history and research methodology, among other things.
Did I do a websearch? Yes, I did. I have web access to OCLC, the
Online Catalog of the Library of Congress. And true, there is more
than one James Hannay -- three of them -- but only ONE is a J. B.
Hannay, he was born in 1855, and he is the author of books with these
sorts of titles: Sex symbolism in religion on one hand, and On the
action of chloride upon iodine on the other.

Not the same Hannay? False. This, again, was a man who had no business
doing what he was doing.

Most of the rest of the article the leader decides to ignore. We now
get to where we looked at the leader's correspondence with a rational
atheist, who noted that the Piso theorists have to "concoct wild
scenarios where the scrolls are removed to another location, and loved
ones are left behind." As expected the leader has his conspiracy of
faith -- "All of the manuscripts have not yet been recovered, and this
does not take into account of the fact that many of the documents
which were in the Library of the Pisos did NOT even survive," and by
the way, "it does not take a genius to realize that whatever
manuscripts were in that library which could ruin the plans that the
Roman Piso family had worked so hard to create were most likely
snapped up as soon as they could get to them...It would be completely
stupid to think that as smart as these people were that they were
going to leave behind evidence that could destroy everything that they
had been worked so long and hard to produce if there were any way to
retrieve that evidence."

Yes, it's a cow eating grass scenario; and without the leader's
expertise, you will never be able to see that cow as it runs away.

And last, we're also told that "Pliny the Younger records the attempts
at retrieval from the Villa of the Pisos by his uncle Pliny the Elder"
but don't expect to see this in Pliny's actual works; it has to be
read between the lines, we assume, of Pliny the Younger's actual
report that Pliny the Elder went over out of scientific curiosity and
to rescue someone's wife, and ended up visiting not the Piso villa at
all, by the record, but the bathhouse. The leader closes with more
assurances that it will take "several books" before he will have
enough out there to see that he really is the genius he thinks he is,
declares that he has "spent far too much time" replying to our
"gibberish," and takes his leave.

And that is all from the leader. What more needs be said? Sober
scholarship is obviously not on the docket here.

-JPH

[carole]

On Feb 27, 4:41 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pisocake.html
>
> On the "Roman Piso" theory
>
> Many years back when I used to pick up copies of The Humanist for
> entertainment, I recall seeing a small advertisement among the back-
> matter ads that claimed to provide undeniable, irrefutable proof that
> Josephus had authored the NT. The offerer was the "Abelard Reuchlin
> Foundation." Well, these fellows are still around.
>
> It would be an overstatement to say that no one takes this group --
> whose overall thesis is that the NT was authored by members of an
> aristocratic Roman family to keep slaves under control and submissive
> -- seriously.

OK, then have a look at www.jesusneverexisted.com

There really is no reason to believe in jesus - except as an imaginery
friend.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

On Feb 26, 10:23 pm, "Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD"

yes

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

On Feb 27, 5:13 am, Martin <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 02:49:16 -0800 (PST), carole

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <hubbca2...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >On Feb 26, 7:46 pm, Martin <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:23:15 -0800 (PST), carole
>
> >> <hubbca2...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> >> Carole, this is a newsgroup about alternative medicine.
>
> >But there are some in this ng who bring religion up.
> >Chung, Ironjustice, Leonardo been, and others.
>
> >I know this is not a religous group, and not even a conspiracy group,
> >yet conspiracy does come into things due to the way that alternative
> >remedies are suppressed and pharmaceutical drugs promoted.
>
> >Religion comes into things a little even if only to point out how
> >people are mind-controlled through fundamental religious conditioning.
>

> >carole
> >www.conspiracee.com
>
> So, if I discuss alt med, but I'm not utterly uncritically praising
> it, you are berating me that this is an alt med newsgroup, but when
> you talk about religion in a non-religion discussion group, it's just
> fine.
>
> Carole, you are a hypocrite.

I was only trying to point out to Andrew Chung that the New Testament
was created by the Piso family of ancient Rome for the purposes of
uniting Rome under one religion.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Lu 16:31 - And he said unto him,
If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded,
though one rose from the dead.

Who Moved The Stone? [Paperback]
Frank Morison (Author)


For Seekers & Skeptics, July 27, 1999
By StLuke...@aol.com (Dublin, Oh) - This review is from: Who Moved
the
Stone? (Paperback)
I've read many books on the historical reliability (and
unreliability)
of the New Testament; I've seen many educated opinions varying in
every way; I done studies many resurrections-centered topics; but
I've
never seen a book quite like this! Morrison takes nothing for
granted.
He trusts his instincts, and, though coming shy of any kind of
Biblical-Christian opinion, he beautifully defends the resurrection
in
this short examination. As a doubter I find it difficult to swallow
what many Christians take for granted in their own faith. This book
is
not like most. However, as a believer I was thrown by Morrison into
the last week of Jesus' life (and the following weeks) as I never
have
by any lecture or writing. Morrison brings to light many historical
details missed my so many people (including myself). He is easy to
read and difficult to put down.
To the skeptics: I was once a skeptic. It was not a brief reading of
one or two apologetic works that convinced me; instead, it was months
and months of hard research, with this book as one of the many
highlights. I encourage all to read this.


Morrison's book will forever remain one of my personal favorites.


Luke Gilkerson


http://www.amazon.com/Who-Moved-Stone-Frank-Morison/dp/1850786747


The Case for the Resurrection:
A First-Century Investigative Reporter
Probes History's Pivotal Event [Paperback]
Lee Strobel (Author)


A Mighty Case for the Risen Christ, August 10, 2010
By Mike Robinson "Mike A Robinson: Apologetic An... (USA) -(TOP 1000
REVIEWER) (REAL NAME) This review is from: The Case for the
Resurrection: A First-Century Investigative Reporter Probes History's
Pivotal Event (Paperback)
Lee Strobel's "The Case for the Resurrection: A First-Century
Investigative Reporter Probes History's Pivotal Event," is a power-
packed booklet (almost 100 pages) that offers compelling evidence for
the resurrection of Jesus Christ. "The Case for the Resurrection" is
helpful and readable and makes a great evidential introduction for
this essential truth of Christianity.


This New book features:
Fresh insights from Lee Strobel's new "The Case for Christ Study
Bible," as the author covers the story of Christ rising from the
grave
from the Gospel of Luke with outstanding notes from "The Case for
Christ Study Bible." The proof is potent, the writing is engaging,
and
the author has a true passion for the subject.


Remember that the Apostles saw the risen Christ, touched the risen
Christ, and died tortuous deaths proclaiming its truth when all thy
had to do was deny it; yes many people die for lies, but no
collective, diverse group of people die for what they Know is a
complete lie.


Furthermore all known ancient documents that refer to the subject
report an empty tomb. Even though the manner in which one accepts or
rejects the evidence on the historicity of the ancient documents and
other papyrus is controlled by one's presuppositions, the facts are
mighty; the evidence is there, and is impressive, but there is an
important distinction between proof and persuasion.


Note the evidence for the resurrection of Christ is:
- 100's of eyewitnesses testified under the threat of death that they
saw the risen Jesus including 500 people at one time. All the
apostles, except one, died a horrible death knowing they saw Jesus
alive from the dead. 100's more died because they would not recant
the
fact that they saw the risen Jesus. Not one Apostle recanted to save
himself from a torturous death.


- Only Christianity offers over three hundred predictions written
down
before Christ came and fulfilled exactly, most of which could not
have
been self-fulfilled.
Only Christ offers a confirmed resurrection of a Savior to
demonstrate
His authority. (Greek & other pseudo-resurrection gods were not
historical figures, the only documents we have concerning the false
gods/myths are documents dated 100's of years after Christianity.


- The resurrection was proclaimed in Jerusalem where the trial,
crucifixion. and resurrection took place. If Jesus had not risen from
the dead, his enemies only had to produce this body and this new
religion that they hated would be terminated before it started.


- The conversion of Jesus' opponents to Christianity, including many
Jewish Priests and Pharisees can best be explained by the
resurrection
of Christ. The risen Jesus converted many of those who executed Him
because of the overwhelming evidence of His resurrection and His many
appearances through God's grace (Acts 6:7 & Acts 15:5).


- Jesus' tomb was secured and guarded by well trained Jewish and
Roman
guards. The tomb had a Roman seal on it to prevent tampering with the
threat of execution for breaking the seal, yet the tomb was empty.
Every ancient historical source that discusses the subject verifies
the tomb was empty.


- Ancient hostile sources and extra-Biblical writers record the same
facts of Christ's death and empty tomb. Additionally, the continuous
defense of the resurrection in front of Roman government officials
from Paul to Tertullian was unchallenged by Rome and all ancient
historians.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310949890/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_...

[The Doctor]

In article <b21d6cea-4b97-4c50...@m3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
carole <hubbc...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And if you believe that, set yourself on fire
and see if you die.

[Who?]

On 2/26/2012 5:47 PM, Bob Officer wrote:

> The problem is you lack an understanding of history Carole.
>
> Rome wasn't the center of the church when the bible as it exist today
> was written and codified into cannon.
>
> What you don't know is important.
>
> IF you want to discuss religion, you have to study history and
> culture of the near east and mediterranean world between 200BB to
> 200AD.


That might be as distasteful for her as trying to learn elementary
chemistry. I think she just regurgitates what she hears elsewhere. She
must attend local Australian Labor Party gatherings, or perhaps just
tunes into an AM radio show hosted by the Aussie version of a left wing
Rush Limbaugh.

[Who?]

On 2/26/2012 6:36 PM, The Doctor wrote:
> In article<b21d6cea-4b97-4c50...@m3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
> carole<hubbc...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> On Feb 27, 4:41=A0am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>>> http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pisocake.html
>>>
>>> On the "Roman Piso" theory
>>>
>>> Many years back when I used to pick up copies of The Humanist for
>>> entertainment, I recall seeing a small advertisement among the back-
>>> matter ads that claimed to provide undeniable, irrefutable proof that
>>> Josephus had authored the NT. The offerer was the "Abelard Reuchlin
>>> Foundation." Well, these fellows are still around.
>>>
>>> It would be an overstatement to say that no one takes this group --
>>> whose overall thesis is that the NT was authored by members of an
>>> aristocratic Roman family to keep slaves under control and submissive
>>> -- seriously.
>>
>> OK, then have a look at www.jesusneverexisted.com
>>
>> There really is no reason to believe in jesus - except as an imaginery
>> friend.
>>
>> carole
>> www.conspiracee.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> And if you believe that, set yourself on fire
> and see if you die.

Probably a better chance of her doing that than her taking a bath or
shower more frequently than once a week.

[RJMX]

On Feb 26, 12:13 pm, carole <hubbca2...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
> There really is no reason to believe in jesus - except as an imaginery
> friend.

The irony of this is people believing in false history to support what
they consider to be a falsehood. The Piso family did not write the New
Testament. That's just a fact regardless of religious belief. No
credible historian will support that fallacy. Another falsehood is
that the story of Jesus is a nearly exact copy of the story of the
Egyptian god Horus, that so many use to support what they consider to
be a falsehood. No credible Egyptologist will corroborate Horus
mirroring Jesus. Using a falsehood to try proving that something else
is false is ridiculous.

[RJMX]

On Feb 26, 2:47 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:

> The problem is you lack an understanding of history Carole.
>
> Rome wasn't the center of the church when the bible as it exist today
> was written and codified into cannon.
>
> What you don't know is important.
>
> IF you want to discuss religion, you have to study history and
> culture of the near east and mediterranean world between 200BB to
> 200AD.

No way, Bob, it's far better to pull fictional history off the net to
try proving that something else is fictional.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

On Feb 27, 7:28 am, •*´¯`*•.¸ஐ*•.¥.•*ஐ¸.•*´¯`*• <bus...@cbgb.net>
wrote:
> Sick twisted evil Andy Chung wrote:
>
> > May ever so severely curse you and all around you
>
> > This prayer is being answered
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a9494e037c47b328?
>
> > My health insurance has expired. They figure I'd have 6 months at
> > best with continued treatments. 2 months at best without. I'm down to 120
> > lbs. My family is suffering all kinds of health problems as well. We
> > may be homeless soon. But I'll keep plugging away till the end."
>
> This is what poisonous creeps like fake Christian Andy Chung "pray"
> for?
> What a miserable reprobate sicko Andy Chung is.

Yep.
--

Brian Gene Kelley, PhD

"Myth: You Can't Be Overweight and Healthy"
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

"Study: Overweight People Live Longer"
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

"Starvation and Hunger, Humankind's Constant Companions"
http://gherkinstomatoes.com/2009/11/10/14837/

"Stop Hunger Now"
http://www.stophungernow.org/site/PageServer


Paul is not talking about just saying the words "Jesus is Lord".
Anyone can say that. Even demons can say it through people whom they
have possessed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas

**again**

Anyone can say insincerely say "Jesus is Lord".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

***and***

Beware of the loner (Someone who is alone in their interpretation of
the Bible)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

A self-righteous judgmental prideful ignorant crackpot wrote:


> someone whose name has been blotted(Deu29:20) from His Book(Deu32:33)
> of Life.

Bizzzt wrong:

Mosaic Covenant - Covenant in Moab: Only applicable to Israel under
the Old Covenant.

> from His Book(Deu32:33)

Bizzzt wrong:

"Their wine is the poison of serpents,
And the cruel venom of cobras."

Nether the verse nor the entire chapter (The Song of Moses) is
applicable.

Crackpot shifts gears:

> someone whose name has been blotted(Rev3:5)

Bizzzt wrong:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not
blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name
before My Father and before His angels."

Rev 3:5 is an assurance of Salvation, not a threat; as confirmed by
true Christian credible orthodox

> Eternal condemnation of
> someone whose name has been blotted

Wouldn't it be interesting to see the crackpot provide a concise
straightforward explanation of precisely why this person's name
supposedly was
blotted from God's Book of Life?

> The reason is simply lying to someone in the Holy Spirit is lying to
> the Holy Spirit:

Bizzzt wrong:

None of the misused Bible verses supplied by the crackpot; Deu29:20,
32:33; Rev 3:5, 20:15 substantiate this claim :-)

> This does mean that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to
> blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

Bizzzt wrong:

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit The Unpardonable Sin (Matthew 12:21,32)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yWk0PtrhdQ

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

Bizzzt wrong:

A non-christian saying "Jesus is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

A self-righteous judgmental prideful ignorant crackpot wrote:


> someone whose name has been blotted(Deu29:20) from His Book(Deu32:33)
> of Life.

Bizzzt wrong:

Mosaic Covenant - Covenant in Moab: Only applicable to Israel under
the Old Covenant.

> from His Book(Deu32:33)

Bizzzt wrong:

"Their wine is the poison of serpents,

And the cruel venom of cobras" (Deu32:33)

Nether the verse nor the entire chapter (The Song of Moses) is
applicable.

<Crackpot shifts gears>

> someone whose name has been blotted(Rev3:5)

Bizzzt wrong:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not
blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name

before My Father and before His angels" (Rev3:5)

Rev 3:5 is obviously an assurance of Salvation, not a threat.

> Eternal condemnation of
> someone whose name has been blotted

Let's see the crackpot provide a concise

straightforward explanation of precisely why this person's name
supposedly was blotted from God's Book of Life?

> The reason is simply lying to someone in the Holy Spirit is lying to
> the Holy Spirit:

Bizzzt wrong:

None of the misused Bible verses supplied by the crackpot; Deu29:20,
32:33; Rev 3:5, 20:15 substantiate this claim :-)

> This does mean that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to
> blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

Bizzzt wrong:

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit The Unpardonable Sin (Matthew 12:21,32)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yWk0PtrhdQ

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

Bizzzt wrong:

A non-christian saying "Jesus is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

Bottom line concerning the crackpot charlatan:

"While evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving
and being deceived" (2 Timothy 3:13).

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Mar 3, 6:42 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

> love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
> Father.

> If that were true, a newborn infant's real personal relationship with
> their mom would also be a religion.
>
> This is simply not the case because everyone knows that newborn
> infants are not religious:
>
> http://WDJW.net/NoReligion
>
> Source:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/aa583d03f4486814?

Rubbish. Christianity was invented by the Romans to unite the people
under one religion.

see http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/




WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health
http://tinyurl.com/6wfav9l
To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
Please be aware that many comments and responses posted to this forum
are not those of casual posters interested in an honest exchange.  A
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identify them.


carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

On Mar 3, 6:42 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

> love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
> Father.
>
>

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

"The nativity yarn is a concatenation of nonsense. The genealogies of
Jesus, both Matthew's version and Luke's, are pious fiction. Nazareth
did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of
rock-cut tombs."

"Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure"? Don't believe
a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like
Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.


carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Jan Drew]

On Mar 3, 6:51 pm, carole <hubbca2...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 6:42 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman
> > (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really
> > love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
> > Father.
>
> http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

American Heathen radio

an uncivilized or barbaric person .

Shame on you, Carole. You will know better when it is too late.

http://www.endtimesprophecy.co.uk/page7.htm

[carole]

Yes, I know Jan - shame on me.
However, every religion thinks it is the right and only one.
And when you really look at it, religions are a big part of what's
wrong with the world, many wars and separations made between people
based on ideology only.

I think christianity is a manmade religion. We'll have to agree to
disagree on that one.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
Father.

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

A self-assured judgmental prideful Biblically incorrect crackpot
wrote:

Bizzzt wrong:

A non-christian saying "Jesus is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnl6ucHnSE

> false Bible teachers

Bizzzt wrong - They were correct

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

A non-christian scoffer of Christianity boldly saying the words "Jesus
is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnl6ucHnSE


The above is proof that anyone can say the words "Jesus is Lord" as
confirmed by genuine Christian expert professional Bible teachers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

What genuine Christian expert professional Bible teachers have to say
about the crackpot who misinterprets the Bible and makes stuff up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI
And again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

So here we have solid proof that unbelievers and even a parrot can say

the words "Jesus is Lord"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFGgScPd4YI

Anyone can say the words "Jesus is Lord" including charlatans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwOQ9-LTbos

--
Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD

"Starvation and Hunger, Humankind's Constant Companions"
http://gherkinstomatoes.com/2009/11/10/14837/

"Stop Hunger Now"
http://www.stophungernow.org/site/PageServer


Study: Overweight People Live Longer
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

A Little Extra Weight Protects People From Early Death
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623133523.htm

BBC NEWS | Health | Overweight people live longer
http://www.health-forums.com/alt-support-diabetes/bbc-news-health-overweight-people-live-longer-173039.html

'Overweight' people live longer than those of 'ideal' weight
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/overweight_live_longer/

Portland researchers find slightly overweight people live longer
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2009/06/portland_researchers_find_slig.html

Japanese study shows overweight people live longest
http://www.physorg.com/news164519566.html

Chubby people live longest
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.c7aaeb7940626693fa418a1eab2291f6.81

Study shows overweight people live longer
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/study-tips-scales-the-other-way-overweight-people-live-longer-20090618-cm13.html

Fat people live longer! - Indian Express
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/fat-people-live-longer/478786/

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

Bizzzt wrong:

A non-christian saying "Jesus is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnl6ucHnSE

The children didn't because the impostor did not ask them
directly "can you say "Jesus is Lord?"". Instead the impostor resorted
to duplicity as usual.
And exploitation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo53axJ4x1o


> Demons possess only those who can say "Jesus is LORD"

Ridiculous nonsense that could only come from an impostor.

> > Amen to that.

> This physician is not a Bible teacher

Just a Bible distorter.

> I really couldn't be discerning.
>
> Any born-again (John 3:3 & 5) Bible teacher who truthfully says they
> are "wonderfully hungry" whenever they are greeted would be someone
> who would be a truthful Bible teacher.

Ridiculous nonsense that could only come from an impostor.

> Here is a link to the written words of Apostle Paul, who is one such
> example of a truthful Bible teacher:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas
>
> Here is a link to a YouTube video of another:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

> May GOD ever so severely curse to the Nth generation all who grieve
> His Holy Spirit by falsely teaching that "Anyone can say 'Jesus is
> LORD'" in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen.

Ridiculous nonsense that could only come from an impostor.

> > Only Satan would try to lull people into a false assurance of
> > Salvation in Jesus Christ, by claiming it's summed up in someone's
> > ability to parrot the second half of a Bible verse.
>
> Only those who work for satan would claim they know what satan would
> do.

Not according to the Apostle Paul

"So that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not
ignorant of his schemes" (2 Corinthians 2:11)

No wonder the impostor is so angry :-)

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (2
Corinthians 11:14)

"It is written that the deceived like you would be deceiving others,
going from bad to worse" (2 Timothy 3:13).

Just as with the impostor's whole system of false doctrine blended
with a lot of truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI

> parrots cannot say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth

Bizzzt wrong again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFGgScPd4YI

Thus, the impostor has been caught in another lie.

> > The charlatan Christian says, "The fact that I can quote the words
> > written in 1 Corinthians 12:3b, proves that I'm a genuine Christian".
>
> This physician

Yes.

> Actually, you cannot just as your master (satan) cannot for "no one
> can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians
> 12:3).

Bizzzt wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnl6ucHnSE

> May GOD ever so severely curse

Seems this prayer is being answered:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/71cb523e75e1423f?hl=en>

Bottom line regarding the impostor:

http://bible.cc/2_timothy/3-13.htm

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

> Non-christians simply cannot publicly say "Jesus is LORD"

Bizzzt wrong:

A non-christian saying "Jesus is Lord" in pure blasphemous mockery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeN7oF78Xkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnl6ucHnSE

> false Bible teachers

Bizzzt wrong - They were correct

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL7AhTdZHas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH28urOlqE

Only Satan would try to lull people into a false assurance of
Salvation in Jesus Christ, by claiming it's summed up in someone's
ability to parrot the second half of a Bible verse.


> Only those who work for satan would claim they know what satan would
> do.

Bizzzt wrong

"So that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not
ignorant of his schemes" (2 Corinthians 2:11)

> someone whose name has been blotted(Deu29:20) from His Book(Deu32:33)
> of Life.

Bizzzt wrong:

Mosaic Covenant - Covenant in Moab: Only applicable to Israel under
the Old Covenant.

> from His Book(Deu32:33)

Bizzzt wrong:

"Their wine is the poison of serpents,
And the cruel venom of cobras" (Deu32:33)

Nether the verse nor the entire chapter (The Song of Moses) is
applicable.

<Crackpot shifts gears>

> someone whose name has been blotted(Rev3:5)

Bizzzt wrong:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not
blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name
before My Father and before His angels" (Rev3:5)

Rev 3:5 is obviously an assurance of Salvation, not a threat.

> Eternal condemnation of
> someone whose name has been blotted

Let's see the impostor provide a concise

straightforward explanation of precisely why this person's name
supposedly was blotted from God's Book of Life?

> The reason is simply lying to someone in the Holy Spirit is lying to
> the Holy Spirit:

Bizzzt wrong:

None of the misused Bible verses supplied by the crackpot; Deu29:20,
32:33; Rev 3:5, 20:15 substantiate this claim :-)

> This does mean that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to
> blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

Bizzzt wrong:

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit The Unpardonable Sin (Matthew 12:21,32)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yWk0PtrhdQ

Bottom line concerning the impostor:

"While evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving
and being deceived" (2 Timothy 3:13).

"A whole system of false doctrine blended with a lot of truth"
- Dr.Gene Getz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI


"To avoid being influenced by false doctrine is, number one:
Be on guard against a loner [like Andrew B. Chung] when it comes to
Biblical interpretation.

People [like Andrew] who say that they have the truth and they're
alone in it and
they're creating new ideas. A lone individual who claims to have some
kind of revelation [like Andrew does] which is actually false doctrine
blended with
truth. We have to be careful of these individuals who claim to have
the Holy Spirit, but they are out of harmony with historic true
doctrine [as has always been the case with Andrew B. Chung]

Second, become a good [skilled, ardent, dedicated]
student of Scripture... with other Bible
studying Christians. Not alone only [as Andrew B. Chung is alone] It's
not wrong to study the Scriptures alone, but studying with other Bible
studying Christians,
interacting with other Bible studying Christians, mentors, on full
time regular basis, in order to avoid some kind of strange
interpretation of Scripture" - Dr. Gene Getz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfcEWZceWhI

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD]

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
> duke wrote:
> > someone whose name has been blotted(Rev3:5) from His Book(Rev20:15) wrote:

Duke's actual post:

duke wrote:

> "Brian Gene Kelley, PhD" wrote:
>
> >Paul is not talking about just saying the words "Jesus is Lord".
> >Anyone can say that. Even demons can say it through people whom they
> >have possessed
>

> Amen to that.

Source:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.christnet.theology/msg/883b5a191154afe8?hl=en

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
> % wrote:
> > someone whose name has been blotted(Rev3:5) from His Book(Rev20:15) wrote:

%'s actual post:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/1701d9cfbe467a24?hl=en


** Andrew B. Chung lies, twists and distorts in order to deceive **


Bottom line regarding Andrew B. Chung:

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[carole]

On Mar 11, 7:49 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman

> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really

The new testament was written by the Roman Piso family, high up
aristocrats.
Anybody who thinks they are a born again christian is operating under
a delusion.

I know all about the "jesus saves" religion, about being "born again".
Been there, done that -- in my youth.

I'm not saying there isn't a god, or spiritual meaning to life, but
just that all religions have got it wrong.
Its more like on star trek where religion and science are based on the
laws of the universe.
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[O R Gone]

On 3/11/2012 6:03 AM, carole wrote:
> On Mar 11, 7:49 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"<lov...@thetruth.com>
> wrote:

>> ... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3& 5) friends like Rod Eastman

>> (http://WDJW.net) to also pray for Carole simply because we really
>> love her as our LORD commands (John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the
>> Father.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Carole wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>> Carole wrote:
>>>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>> Carole wrote:
>>>>>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/14c0ea104a61dafe?
>>
>>>>>>>> Hallelujah is "praise be to GOD" in Hebrew.
>>

>>>>>>>> If you were born-again (John 3:3& 5), it would be right for those

>>>>>>>> of us who are born-again to pray that you be smarter:
>>
>>>>>>>> http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
>>
>>>>>>>> However, you need to be born-again as evident by your not being able
>>>>>>>> to say "Jesus is LORD" with your mouth (Romans 10:9).
>>
>>>>>>> But I don't believe in the "born again" phenomenon.
>>
>>>>>> You cannot believe it until you are born-again.
>>
>>>>>>> Why should being "born again" make you more fit for heaven over
>>>>>>> muslims, or other religions that done't believe in it?
>>
>>>>>> It is GOD and not religion that has changed our stony heart (Ezekiel

>>>>>> 11:19-20& 36:36) to a softer one so that we are able to truly "agape"

>>>>>> love others as our LORD commands with all glory to GOD the Father.
>>
>>>>> No, what you're practising is religion.
>>
>>>> Incorrect.
>>
>>>> Source:
>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/905ecd32466ea51b?
>>
>>>> A real personal relationship with our risen LORD Jesus Christ of
>>>> Nazareth is by definition not religion:
>>
>>> Yes it is.
>>
>> If that were true, a newborn infant's real personal relationship with
>> their mom would also be a religion.
>>
>> This is simply not the case because everyone knows that newborn
>> infants are not religious:
>>
>> http://WDJW.net/NoReligion
>
> The new testament was written by the Roman Piso family, high up
> aristocrats.
> Anybody who thinks they are a born again christian is operating under
> a delusion.
>
> I know all about the "jesus saves" religion, about being "born again".
> Been there, done that -- in my youth.
>
> I'm not saying there isn't a god, or spiritual meaning to life, but
> just that all religions have got it wrong.
> Its more like on star trek where religion and science are based on the
> laws of the universe.
> carole

You act as if a large black orgone might do you wonders!

Can you say orgone with your mouth, if not why not?
O R Gone

[James R.]

Chung is just a nut job, religion is just his catalyst.

[carole]

Yes, I can say orgone with my mouth.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

On Mar 12, 1:43 am, "James R." <tw...@ipi.com> wrote:
> Chung is just a nut job, religion is just his catalyst.

The word "nut" just doesn't quite cut it.
Chung needs to apply a bit of critical thinking to religion and
realise that while all religions claim to be the one and only right
one, they can't all be right.

I'd like to see him explain why christianity is the only right and
true religion.
And if he was born say a muslim and brought up to think that islam was
the only one and true religion, how he would then think.

* * *

WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health
http://tinyurl.com/6wfav9l
To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[James R.]

"carole" wrote in message
news:a054e79a-5651-4e8e...@gj7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

On Mar 12, 1:43 am, "James R." <tw...@ipi.com> wrote:
> Chung is just a nut job, religion is just his catalyst.

> The word "nut" just doesn't quite cut it.

Oh, it totally does...

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ce5f55696a2332e3?

>
> The new testament was written by the Roman Piso family, high up
> aristocrats.

That does not explain why you are not able to say "Jesus is LORD" with
your mouth (Romans 10:9) unto salvation (Romans 10:10).

Indeed, the only rational explanation why you are not able to say
"Jesus is LORD" with your mouth is that "no one can say 'Jesus is
LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:3):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?

May GOD soften your stony heart (Ezekiel 11:19-20 & 36:26) so that
you, Carole, would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus Christ of
Nazareth: