Independent repair shops disappointed with Apple's repair programs

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

Right-to-repair activists say the issue of tight repair
restrictions extends beyond Apple into other industries

Some independent tech repair shops are disappointed with Apple's
fairly new plan to provide them with Apple equipment and repair
guides to fix customers' iPhones.

The tech giant said in an August statement that it would start
providing Apple certification classes to technicians, Apple-
genuine iPhone parts and tool guides to independent repair
providers (IRPs) so they could get the same benefits as Apple's
repair partners and better fix out-of-warranty iPhones for the
same cost as AASPs, Apple said in a statement.

“We are committed to giving our customers more options and
locations for safe and reliable repairs. Our new IRP program is
designed to give repair businesses of all sizes access to
genuine parts, training and tools needed to perform the most
common iPhone repairs," Apple told FOX Business in an email
after it was made aware that some independent technicians are
unhappy with the program.

"We are excited by the initial response and high level of
interest. We are working closely with interested parties and we
will update language in our materials to address their
feedback," the company added.

The only difference between Apple's repair partners, otherwise
known as "Apple Authorized Service Providers" (AASPs) --- think
BestBuy --- and IRPs is the fact that AASPs can only use Apple-
genuine parts to fix in- and out-of-warranty phones whereas IRPs
can use third-party parts in addition to Apple-genuine parts to
fix out-of-warranty batteries and screens, so as long as they
disclose that information to customers.

"We were actually kind of excited about the program," Matt
McCormick, founder of the independent Seattle-based repair shop
Jet City Device Repair, told FOX Business.

"We put together a huge package of data to apply, they accepted
us [as an IRP] and got back to us with a contract. But when we
looked at the contract, the prices for Apple parts were so high
that we decided not to read any further," he said.

Apple's IRP announcement came after the company faced scrutiny
for its tight restrictions over who could and could not repair
iPhones, directing customers to make reservations at the store's
Genius Bar --- infamous for its long wait times --- or at AASP
stores in what some small businesses said violated their "right
to repair."

Right to repair has become an increasingly popular free-market
movement within tech and other industries.

"Apple will provide more independent repair businesses — large
or small — with the same genuine parts, tools, training, repair
manuals and diagnostics as its AASP The program is launching in
the U.S. with plans to expand to other countries," the tech
giant's August statement reads.

Apple Chief Operating Officer Jeff Williams said that to meet
customers’ needs, the company is "making it easier for
independent providers across the US to tap into the same
resources as our AASP network."

But that wasn't convincing enough for Congress.

The House Judiciary Committee sent a letter to Apple CEO Tim
Cook on Nov. 13 informing him that the committee was
investigating the tech giant's "competition in digital markets,"
specifically including its AASP program, as part of a broader
antitrust investigation into not only Apple, but Google,
Facebook and Amazon, as well.

The new iPhone X is pictured at the Apple Store Marche Saint-
Germain in Paris, France, Nov. 3, 2017. (REUTERS/Benoit Tessier)
Apple responded to a series of questions from Congress later in
November saying it recommends repairs are "conducted by a
certified technician who has completed Apple service training
and who uses Apple-genuine parts and tools," saying, "Genuine
Apple parts are designed, tested and manufactured for Apple
quality and performance standards."

"We continue to focus on providing customers convenient access
to authorized repair locations," Apple said in its replies,
mentioning its AASP program, "but we will never compromise on
safety."

McCormick is arguing that despite the fact that Apple said it
would provide independent repair businesses with the tools
necessary to fix iPhones with original equipment manufacturer
(OEM) Apple parts such as batteries and screens, Apple's plan
was to sell its equipment to small businesses for what he thinks
are overly expensive prices. Additionally, IRPs cannot provide
Apple warranty for Apple parts.

Such costs and restrictions would have a significant impact on
profitability for IRP iPhone repairs. IRPs can typically replace
a phone screen or battery for well under $100.

Apple charges $129 to repair the screen of an iPhone 5C, which
came out in 2013, according to its website. An iPhone 11 Pro Max
screen repair costs $329 through Apple. The company says these
repairs should make damaged phones work the same way they did
when they were purchased.

"The cost for the OEM parts is more than what we charge for a
repair," he said.

McCormick said there are a number of online forums for owners,
employees and customers of small repair stores like his who
agree that Apple's announcement to offer these tools to fix
iPhones to independent shops "is a joke."

One such Reddit user who goes by the online alias "Fudge" wrote
a post on the website's Apple subreddit page detailing his
thoughts on Apple's IRP program as a former third-party repair
shop employee and AASP technician.

"The back-end systems broken, the documentation is abysmally
bad, and it's a complete Australia-scale dumpster fire," said
Fudge, who spoke to FOX Business on the condition of anonymity
to keep his personal opinions about Apple separate from his
professional identity.

"The pricing and terms are awful, the benefits are horrible, and
there's a lot of other 'gotchas' that make it a bad investment"
for independent shops, Fudge said.

Fudge agreed with McCormick that the program is "a joke."

"Prices are crippling, you can't provide any warranty from Apple
even though you're using Apple parts, the bureaucratic processes
ruin the experience," he said, adding that "no documentation
means being thrown into the Global Service Exchange --- Apple's
god-awful system for creating and managing repairs --- without
help."

Apple maintains that its repair-related systems and
documentation related to repair are successfully used daily by
thousands of AASPs, and the IRP program has received a lot of
interest.

Fudge then explained the differences between the issues with
Apple's IRP program versus Apple's success with AASPs.

"In the third-party world, margins are usually thin. Because of
the flood of cheap garbage quality parts, and even mid-tier
garbage parts, prices have to be dropped in order to remain
competitive. This pricing from Apple makes this impossible to
realistically continue," he explained.

"In the AASP world, it's a bit different. People are used to
apples high prices, plus we get some sort of labor compensation
from Apple if we do repairs under warranty, Applecare, or any
repair extension programs," Fudge said. "For out-of-warranty
repairs, we're free to charge our own labor rates since Apple
doesn't compensate us."

McCormick echoed Fudge's concerns about the IRP program.

"No way you could compete with all those businesses if you sign
up with this program," he said. "It's a hyper-competitive
business, so every dime counts."

"There's absolutely no reason anyone should want to do this," he
said, adding that if Apple had some kind of marketing program
that shared the names and locations of its AASPs, McCormick may
have been more willing to partner with the tech giant and buy
its OEM parts for such high costs. But even that is not a
possibility, he said.

"As far as I could tell, there was no offer from Apple to help
you do anything," he said. "You could buy the parts, and then
you were on your own to market your business."

Additionally, third-party repair shops don't have the same
incentives as the Apple store to convince its repair customers
to buy new phones. McCormick said customers come into his shop
"all the time" saying Apple couldn't repair their phones and
suggest they buy new ones when the phones or their charging
ports are, in fact, fixable.

"There are a lot of other little things that will go wrong, like
with charging ports, and Apple won't fix those," he explained.
"Why? My guess is that it does take a lot more skill. Screen and
battery fixes are pretty easy to do."

McCormick and Fudge recommended commentary by independent repair
technician Louis Rossmann, a critic of Apple's repair
restrictions and right-to-repair advocate. Fudge is currently a
moderator on Rossmann's discord server.

In one YouTube video, Rossman brings up Apple's practice of
alerting iPhone users who replace dying Apple batteries with
third-party batteries to save money that their batteries are low-
grade, despite the fact that they work normally.

"When you replace the battery in the phone, it will still tell
you, 'Replace,' or 'Service Battery,' or 'Poor Battery Health,"'
he said. "It's going to erode the trust that consumers have in
independent repair, and it's going to ad a lot of friction to
these interactions [between independent repair shops and
consumers] to the point where consumers will say, 'Might as well
just go to the Apple Store.'"

I replaced my own iPhone battery with a third-party battery and,
out of curiosity, when I checked the battery health on my phone,
I realized I had the same notice Rossmann mentions in the video,
despite the fact that my battery has given me no issues since I
replaced it.

Rossmann likened the situation to seeing a car's oil replacement
light come on right after an independent auto repair shop
changes the car's oil.

"It's going to erode the trust you have in that mechanic,"
Rossmann said. "And one of the things that I've been trying to
do over the past five or six years ... is build up that trust
and goodwill so that when things like this happen, it isn't the
independent repair shop screwing them over — it's the Apple
Store."

In December, Rossmann posted another video calling Apple's IRP
program a "joke" and "useless PR stunt" to avoid further
antitrust questions from Congress.

Rossmann said a number of people signed nondisclosure agreements
with Apple to become an Apple-certified IRP and related their
experiences back to him. McCormick also mentioned getting an NDA
from the company after his shop was accepted but said he did not
sign it.

He shared one story in which the person who went through with
the requirements to become an Apple-certified IRP said Apple
will charge an IRP "$25 for the battery if you return the old
one," but it will charge you "$101.25 if you don't return the
old one."

"This is insane," Rossmann said, adding later, "There's no money
to be made here."

So, if Apple doesn't provide low-cost parts to independent
device repair shops that fix damaged iPhones, what do they use
instead?

McCormick pointed to ever-improving Chinese technology and
manufacturers who have learned to make near-identical screens
and batteries for iPhones even though they aren't actually OEM
Apple parts. An independent repair shop in Washington, D.C.,
charges less than $90 for an iPhone 7 screen repair --- less for
older models and more for newer models.

"Anybody telling you they're selling an OEM Apple screen for $20
or $30 --- that's just not true," McCormick said. "In the last
year to 18 months, the quality of the parts coming from China
are almost indiscernible from the OEM versions."

He added that "Apple has clamped down really hard on their
supply" in recent years. "They used to release old parts into
the market until the iPhone 5S came out, and overnight, supply
diminished. Chinese factories started coming online."

But it's not just an Apple issue. Right-to-repair activists say
the topic of tight repair restrictions extends beyond Apple into
other industries.

McCormick brought up John Deere tractors, saying tractors in
need of repair won't operate unless they are fixed with genuine
John Deere parts by a John Deere dealership employee.

"If a farmer bought the tractor, he should be able to do
whatever he wants with it," Kevin Kenney, a farmer from
Nebraska, told Vice's tech outlet, Motherboard, in 2018. "You
want to replace a transmission and you take it to an independent
mechanic — he can put in the new transmission but the tractor
can't drive out of the shop. Deere charges $230, plus $130 an
hour for a technician to drive out and plug a connector into
their USB port to authorize the part."

So farmers turned to foreign John Deere code hackers in Poland
and Ukraine for help.

"There's software out there a guy can get his hands on if he
looks for it," one farmer and repair mechanic in Nebraska who
uses said software told Motherboard. "I'm not a big business or
anything, but let's say you've got a guy here who has a tractor
and something goes wrong with it — the nearest dealership is 40
miles away, but you've got me or a diesel shop a mile away."

"The only way we can fix things is illegally, which is what's
holding back free enterprise more than anything and hampers a
farmer's ability to get stuff done, too," he added.

The point of all this is to say that right-to-repair issues are
increasingly appearing in other industries.

"Most people don't seem to realize that this could be very
impactful on their everyday lives if other companies say, 'Hey
look we can put chips on our components and force people to buy
our parts for our products,'" McCormick said.

Fudge said the only way to resolve this issue is to "work with
the repair market instead of against it."

"Simply blocking stuff hasn't worked out, ever," Fudge said.
"The right way is to actually sit and work out the core problems
on both sides rather than create more restrictive policies that
not only hurt consumers' choices but also make the company seem
like an ass and allow the creation of more e-waste."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/apple-right-to-repair

[Mayayana]

"Jolly Roger" <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote

| > Right-to-repair activists
|
| ...are generally a bunch of whiny dishonest bitches with an ax to grind
| who benefit directly from blackballing Apple.
|
In the recent past I've replaced my front brake disks
and pads, changed the oil, stained the deck, built
a garden window, got a new hard disk, repainted
the TV room, fashioned a homemade TV stand, and
numerous other things that fall under the category
of self repair. It never occurred to me that in doing
those things I was dishonest, whiney and un-American.

Or are the AppleSeeds just being given unusually strong
sedatives this month, to keep them buying unfixable stuff?

Interestingly, the founder if ifixit.com, the site that
repeatedly gives Apple bad ratings for unfixable
devices, started his business after failing to find a repair
manual or docs for Apple products.

"Down With Ingenuity. Make America Dumb."

(I'll send you one of my red DWI MAD hats for only $399
plus S&H. But you'd better buy two. If you tear one it encases
itself in resin and doesn't allow any sewing repair. That
should last you 18 months, at which point the new model
will be out and you'll want to throw away your current
DWI MAD hat. We intend to change the plug for the charger
that powers the red flashing light on top, so the hat
you buy now will be useless in 18 months. Of course,
with progress come price increases. But the amazing
LightningLaser(TM) connector will be well worth the extra
cost of $219. And you'll be able to make fun of other
people who are still using inexpensive chargers.)

[anon]

>
> On 2020-02-24, Anonymous Remailer (austria) <mixm...@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:
>
>>
>> Right-to-repair activists
>
> ...are generally a bunch of whiny dishonest bitches with an ax to grind
> who benefit directly from blackballing Apple.
>

But then who is this guy? Either an apple employee or apple cultist. Android is a very good phone and they are much cheaper than apple's. Just switch phones and righteously "blackball Apple". Nothing wrong with this. Many people will try to convince others that discrimination in any form must be stopped. I personally hate apple and niggers. Apple was started by a tyrannical bastard who never developed out of his nasty personality. Niggers can't see their through their disgusting culture and nature and how other peoples don't want to be near it.

[Arlen Holder]

On 24 Feb 2020 12:19:42 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> Right-to-repair activists
>
> ...are generally a bunch of whiny dishonest bitches with an ax to grind
> who benefit directly from blackballing Apple.

I _love_ when Jolly Roger posts...
o *Because JR embodies the belief system of the quintessential apologist*.

Notice foremost Jolly Roger _always_ responds to facts & adult ideas...
o *With instant hate-filled fifth-grade-bully like vitriol*

This is a trait of all apologists to viciously hate anyone who has any idea
that isn't literally fed to them by Apple Marketing's JimJones' punch.

The second key trait of apologists, which Jolly Roger imbues, is the
desperate overwhelmingly fantastically strong need to simply _feel_ safe!

Apple makes millions of people who are just like Jolly Roger, _feel_ safe.
--
You don't think they make those huge profits on intelligent people, do you?

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:05:52 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> It never occurred to me that in doing
> those things I was dishonest, whiney and un-American.

It's decidedly American, to be able to design, create, & repair things!

Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.

> In the recent past I've replaced my front brake disks
> and pads, changed the oil, stained the deck, built
> a garden window, got a new hard disk, repainted
> the TV room, fashioned a homemade TV stand, and
> numerous other things that fall under the category
> of self repair.

Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.

People who are _afraid_ go to the car dealer to get their cars fixed.
o Just as people who are _afraid_, go to Apple to get an iPhone fixed.

They do it not out of rational thought processes in the least...
o *They use Apple repairs fundamentally out of sheer unadulterated fear*!

As most of you know, I write _tutorials_ on replacing brake rotors, drums,
pads, shoes, & rebuilding master & slave cylinders, and periodically
replacing brake & clutch fluids.

I mount & (statically) balance my own wheel assemblies, and patch-plug
(from the inside) my own tires, and measure my own alignment (caster,
camber & toe only though).

I replace my own clutch diaphragms, clutch plates, throwout bearings, pilot
bearings, shifter forks, shift handle bushings, & Redline MT-90 gear oils.

Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.
--
You don't make all that money off of people making rational decisions.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-02-24 07:19, Jolly Roger wrote:

> On 2020-02-24, Anonymous Remailer (austria) <mixm...@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:
>>
>> Right-to-repair activists
>
> ...are generally a bunch of whiny dishonest bitches with an ax to grind
> who benefit directly from blackballing Apple.

Not at all. Apple are putting up barriers to access. "Do it out way or
no way." All that equipment and training is expensive (I assume).

Computer repair tech's don't need training. They are already trained.
Give them the part with an install guide and they'll get it in there
properly.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-24 6:39 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:05:52 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
>
>> It never occurred to me that in doing
>> those things I was dishonest, whiney and un-American.
>
> It's decidedly American, to be able to design, create, & repair things!
>
> Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
> o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.
>
>> In the recent past I've replaced my front brake disks
>> and pads, changed the oil, stained the deck, built
>> a garden window, got a new hard disk, repainted
>> the TV room, fashioned a homemade TV stand, and
>> numerous other things that fall under the category
>> of self repair.
>
> Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
> o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.
>
> People who are _afraid_ go to the car dealer to get their cars fixed.
> o Just as people who are _afraid_, go to Apple to get an iPhone fixed.
>
> They do it not out of rational thought processes in the least...
> o *They use Apple repairs fundamentally out of sheer unadulterated fear*!
>
> As most of you know, I write _tutorials_ on replacing brake rotors, drums,
> pads, shoes, & rebuilding master & slave cylinders, and periodically
> replacing brake & clutch fluids.

Show just one, Liar.

>
> I mount & (statically) balance my own wheel assemblies, and patch-plug
> (from the inside) my own tires, and measure my own alignment (caster,
> camber & toe only though).
>
> I replace my own clutch diaphragms, clutch plates, throwout bearings, pilot
> bearings, shifter forks, shift handle bushings, & Redline MT-90 gear oils.

Riiiiiiiight.

>
> Those who fear doing things, are, IMHO, those who fall prey to MARKETING.
> o And clearly, Apple MARKETING is one of the finest on this planet.

And is Apple significantly different than any other technology company
in this regard, Liar?

Note: this is not blaming others for something Apple does.

[nospam]

In article <r30hpa$2j5$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> Or are the AppleSeeds just being given unusually strong
> sedatives this month, to keep them buying unfixable stuff?

apple products are *not* unfixable.

however, some microsoft products *are*.

the *only* product to receive a *zero* rating from ifixit, meaning it's
*not* repairable at all, is from *microsoft*:

<https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/118538/ifixit-gives-s
urface-laptop-lowest-possible-score>
The teardown specialists at iFixIt have rendered a damning
indictment against Microsoft¹s new Surface Laptop. It¹s not
repairable in any way, and it will have a limited lifespan thanks
to the design of its battery.

³The Surface Laptop is not a laptop,² the site concludes. ³It¹s a
glue-filled monstrosity. There is nothing about it that is upgradable
or long-lasting, and it literally can¹t be opened without destroying
it.²

Granted, this isn¹t the first time a Surface device was described as
a repair nightmare. Surface Pro 4, for example, was likewise cited
for its terrible repairability. But Surface Pro 4 was at least
awarded 2 out of 10 points, apparently because its SSD is
replaceable.

Surface Laptop? It received 0 out of 10 points. Yes, zero.

although not a zero, the surface pro 6 received a rating of 1, which is
still effectively 'unfixable':
<https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+6+Teardown/113786>
To the extent that screws are used, they are all standard Torx
fasteners.
This tablet still has a headphone jack, which is modular and
replaceable, if you can get to it.
All repairs require first removing the display assembly‹which is
stubbornly glued in place, expensive, and prone to shattering.
The battery is firmly glued in place, with its connector pinned under
the motherboard‹requiring near-total disassembly for service.
Once upon a time, Surface Pro storage was removable‹but not in this
version.
Complex construction makes all disassembly and reassembly tedious in
comparison to other tablets.

> Interestingly, the founder if ifixit.com, the site that
> repeatedly gives Apple bad ratings for unfixable
> devices, started his business after failing to find a repair
> manual or docs for Apple products.

he gives microsoft even lower ratings. see above.

[Chris in Makati]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:05:52 -0500, "Mayayana"

Usenet newsgroups don't have a "like" button, but please accept this
instead.

LIKE

[Anonymous]

In article <3hm85fpur53q2qv6a...@4ax.com>

[Arlen Holder]

Adults do not respond to apologists' incessant "Liar liar pants on fire".

Adults will notice these apologists...
(a) brazenly deny all facts (simply because they _fear_ the facts), and
then
(b) these apologists evoke their fifth-grade schoolyard fear-filled
response to facts, such as when Alan Baker incessantly claims
all facts are always "*Liar liar pants on fire*".

*"Liar" is the apologists' admission they have no adult response to facts.*

o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/64pYEfirKiI>

Hence I will treat all "Liar" responses the same, which is I will assume
the apologists accept the facts as they stand, and hence there is no need
for me to respond to _any_ post claiming "Liar liar pants on fire" by the
apologists (of which almost all their posts amount to).

Just watch.
--
Apologists make every decision based on inordinate _fear_ of mere facts!

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 12:25:12 -0500, nospam wrote:

> apple products are *not* unfixable.
>
> however, some microsoft products *are*.

This post by nospam underscores a huge common defect in apologists'
reasoning...

*Apologists incessantly blame everyone but Apple for Apple's flaws*
o On the Windows newsgroup, nobody blames Apple for Microsoft flaws.
o On the Linux newsgroup, nobody blames Apple for Canonical flaws.
o On the Android newsgroup, nobody blames Apple for Google flaws.

*Only on the Apple newsgroups, do these apologists incessantly*
*blame everyone but Apple for Apple's flaws*

*Even Apple blames everyone but Apple for Apple's flaws*
/(e.g., Apple blamed batteries for their _secret_ halving of CPU speeds!)/.

Please notice apologists like nospam have only 7 responses to fact...
o None of them adult

A key flaw in apologists reasoning is they incessantly brazenly blame
everyone but Apple for Apple's flaws....

See details in:
o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

--
Bringing TRUTH to Apple newsgroups over the years, one fact at a time.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <r31q59$7dq$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Anonymous]

>
>>
>> On 2020-02-24, Anonymous Remailer (austria) <mixm...@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Right-to-repair activists
>>
>> ...are generally a bunch of whiny dishonest bitches with an ax to grind
>> who benefit directly from blackballing Apple.
>>
>

> But then who is this guy? Either an apple employee or apple cultist. Android is a very good phone and they are much cheaper than apple's. Just switch phones and righteously "blackball Apple". Nothing wrong with this. Many people will try to convince others that discrimination in any form must be stopped. I personally hate apple and niggers. Apple was started by a tyrannical bastard who never developed out of his nasty personality. niggers can't see their through their disgusting culture and nature and how other peoples don't want to be near it.

If you want to see what niggers are about, look at this youtube about what they were doing during hurricane Katrina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21bZAYpmkQ

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <r31qs9$8lg$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-24 4:35 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> Adults do not respond to apologists' incessant "Liar liar pants on fire".

Therefore by replying to the previous post you are admitting either:

You are not an adult.

Or the previous post wasn't just "Liar liar pants on fire"...

...right, Liar?

>
> Adults will notice these apologists...
> (a) brazenly deny all facts (simply because they _fear_ the facts), and
> then
> (b) these apologists evoke their fifth-grade schoolyard fear-filled
> response to facts, such as when Alan Baker incessantly claims
> all facts are always "*Liar liar pants on fire*".
>
> *"Liar" is the apologists' admission they have no adult response to facts.*
>
> o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
> they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/64pYEfirKiI>
>
> Hence I will treat all "Liar" responses the same, which is I will assume
> the apologists accept the facts as they stand, and hence there is no need
> for me to respond to _any_ post claiming "Liar liar pants on fire" by the
> apologists (of which almost all their posts amount to).
>
> Just watch.
>

You reply?

OK, Liar.

[Yuri]

In article <r30n6q$4vr$1...@news.mixmin.net>

So do Depends!

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <d58033d5b046588e...@hoi-polloi.org>

Niggas is what niggas do.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <240220201225123733%nos...@nospam.invalid>

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> In article <r30hpa$2j5$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
> <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
> >
> > Or are the AppleSeeds just being given unusually strong
> > sedatives this month, to keep them buying unfixable stuff?
>
> apple products are *not* unfixable.
>
> however, some microsoft products *are*.
>

> > Interestingly, the founder if ifixit.com, the site that
> > repeatedly gives Apple bad ratings for unfixable
> > devices, started his business after failing to find a repair
> > manual or docs for Apple products.
>
> he gives microsoft even lower ratings. see above.

everybody gives microsoft low ratings - yet the the whole of the
real world runs on microsoft products.

you want to talk about a shit company, let's talk ibm. ibm is
headed the way of general electric because they put some dumb
bitch in charge of it. it's not even worth $80 billion now.
ibm is now india business messchines.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 11:13:29 +0100 (CET), Yuri wrote:

>> Apple makes millions of people who are just like Jolly Roger, _feel_ safe.
>
> So do Depends!

Hi Yuri,

I know all the apologists who post frequently, but I don't know you Yuri.
o I've been on Usenet, like most of you, for decades (e.g., since rn/tin).

I've studied these apologists below, who only have 7 responses to facts.
o None of which are adult.

It always shocked me how fantastically immune to facts Apple posters were.
o They'd brazenly deny facts even those which Apple belatedly admitted.
o They'd never read cites, preferring to deny sources outright.
o They sent poor unsuspecting users on fruitless wild goose chases.
etc.

I wondered what adult would possibly be that cruel & stupid?
o Then I realized what the apologists are.

They're people who own a mind that is easily swayed by MARKETING.
o They own the mind of children who still believe in Santa Claus.

The instant you tell these people Santa Claus doesn't exist...
o They act EXACTLY as Jolly Roger & Alan Baker do every single time.

Jolly Roger reacts with instant fifth-grade hateful vitriol to facts.
Alan Baker brazenly covers his ears claiming "Liar liar pants on fire".

Like the mind of the infamous bank robber Dunning & Kruger studied...
o The apologists listed in the sig below have a collectively similar mind.

These people own the minds of small children...
o which is why they own and love Apple products so much.

Apple has one of the finest MARKETING organizations on this planet.
o Apple caters to their fears and their desire for the illusion of safety.

These apologists desperately want to _feel_ safe
o Like when a mommy tells a child the monster can't get out if she
closes the closet door at night.

Two classic traits of these child-like apologists are...
a. They're fantastically shockingly _immune_ to facts, and,
b. They steadfastly believe in the mere _illusion_ of functionality.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think they actually believe everything their MARKETING mommy told them.
o You don't make those profits off of people who are intelligent after all.
--
o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Ammammata <amma...@tiscalinet.it> (not an apologist, but is ignorant)
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>
o Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> (educated & yet immune to fact)
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o B...@Onramp.net (it's hard to find a human any dumber, sadly to say)
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o dpb <no...@none.net> (posts worthless drivel - but keeps it short)
o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o Elfin <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)
o Hawk <Ha...@gmail.com> (literally posts what children would post)
o Hemidactylus <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o hh <recscub...@huntzinger.com>
o joe <no...@domain.invalid>
o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> (has no adult thought processes)
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>
o John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net> (child-like cognitive skills)
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> (one of the dumbest of all)
o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> (dumber than most)
o Lloyd <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <lloy...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Meanie <M...@gmail.com>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> (bullshitter par excellence)
o Panthera Tigris Altaica <northe...@outlook.com>
o roctb <gh...@mouse-potato.com> Russian poster hates all facts
o Sandman <m...@sandman.net> (hates any and all facts about Apple)
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> (not dumb - but stupid)
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser, troll #1)
o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> (indescribably childish)
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> (about as dumb as a human can be)
o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> (never posts anything of value)
o et al.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 07:16:22 -0600, anon wrote:

> But then who is this guy?
> Either an apple employee or apple cultist.

The apologists brazenly deny even what Apple openly admits.

The facts are eminently clear to the adults on this newsgroup
o *Apple makes a ton of money by purposefully restricting the users' options.*

For example, by throttling CPUs unless people prematurely replace batteries.
o Every iOS release adds _more_ iPhone models to the CPU throttling fiasco.

You don't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent people.
o You need people who _believe_ in the bullshit MARKETING spews out.

And Apple has the finest MARKETING bullshit on this planet, IMHO.
o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU/s6gu-hj2BwAJ>

Apple makes money by artificially restricting what the user can do.
o Gizmodo uses the word BULLSHIT to explain Apple's independent repair policy statements with respect to actual contractual facts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/l5YyqPIQXCY/jcvrF-1qAgAJ>

o Every iPhone CPU from the iPhone 6 to iPhone 7 were throttled, then iPhone 8 to iPhone X were throttled & now the iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max & iPhone XR get throttling software
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Mzh1IvniDr8/HxchsGIFAgAJ>

o Verizon confirmed dual-SIM XS, XS Max & XR iPhone can't deliver 3G/4G speeds [customers currently stuck with antiquated 2G]
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/mzfbSDHCUrc/Stn7cqOEAAAJ>

o Do any Android phone manufacturers throttle (CPUs, PD Charging, Modems) like Apple consistently does?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ZTmmGoAndyM/WaU31OQFCAAJ>

o Finally Apple reverses policy ... Maybe they care about the customer (maybe for the first time EVER)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/_mmzNV73MuU/SItGkCFPAAAJ>

o Even if a genuine Apple display is used by your repairer, you will receive the warning messages based on the price of the tools repairers used
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/5Ge0WpaDjjM/_tOmfOA9DQAJ>

o Apple is activating secret software inside the iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and iPhone XR
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OqOM4rY-oNY/LgnoNuE9DQAJ>

o Is there an Android manufacturer who employs the customer unfriendly repair practices that Apple foists upon its loyal customer base?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/vE9fFSUVBeU/FO5BWOdyBwAJ>

etc.
--
You don't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent people after all.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <r33a09$1h2$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-24 4:48 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 12:25:12 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>> apple products are *not* unfixable.
>>
>> however, some microsoft products *are*.
>
> This post by nospam underscores a huge common defect in apologists'
> reasoning...
>
> *Apologists incessantly blame everyone but Apple for Apple's flaws*

No, Liar.

No one blamed anyone else for Apple's flaws here.

[Alan Baker]

Not a single one of your citations is a primary source, Liar.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 13:45:54 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> I've studied these apologists below, who only have 7 responses to facts.
> o None of which are adult.

Besides Apple Apologists incessantly crying "Liar liar pants on fire"...

o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>

*Another common trait of the Apple apologists is they can't read cites!*
o Why do apologists like Alan Baker not read cites provided?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6MdNRtwAbaE/EnaupGnQAgAJ>

They ask for cites and then completely _ignore_ any cite you provide them!
o *It's why I say the Apple apologists are completely _immune_ to facts!*

*Apple apologists are always fantastically shockingly oblivious to facts.*

The _only_ thing the Apple apologists seem to be able to see clearly...
o ... are those glossy colorful Apple MARKETING JimJones' punch brochures.

For example, in this very thread, you saw EXACTLY what I just said, happen!

A _classic_ sign of an Apple apologist, which Alan Baker personifies, is
that they'll ask for a cite and you give them a thread or even a handful of
threads, each of which contains anywhere from a handful to scores of
reliable references.

Every single time, the apologists like Alan Baker claim they didn't see any
cites simply because they _never_ even once in their lives have _clicked_
on the references you provided.

*It's shocking proof people that _oblivious_ to facts ... actually exist.*
o You saw it happen in this very thread so it's a proven fact they do it.
--
Apple Apologists always prove to be shockingly oblivious to facts.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-25 5:01 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 13:45:54 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> I've studied these apologists below, who only have 7 responses to facts.
>> o None of which are adult.
>
> Besides Apple Apologists incessantly crying "Liar liar pants on fire"...
> o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
> they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>

I can't speak for anyone else, Liar (unlike you, who presumes to know
what others are thinking), but I've never called a fact a lie.

>
> *Another common trait of the Apple apologists is they can't read cites!*
> o Why do apologists like Alan Baker not read cites provided?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6MdNRtwAbaE/EnaupGnQAgAJ>

That isn't a cite.

That is a link to an entire thread of posts, Liar.

>
> They ask for cites and then completely _ignore_ any cite you provide them!
> o *It's why I say the Apple apologists are completely _immune_ to facts!*

You almost never provide cites when requested, Liar. You provide links
to entire threads of Usenet posts.

>
> *Apple apologists are always fantastically shockingly oblivious to facts.*
>
> The _only_ thing the Apple apologists seem to be able to see clearly...
> o ... are those glossy colorful Apple MARKETING JimJones' punch brochures.
>
> For example, in this very thread, you saw EXACTLY what I just said, happen!
>
> A _classic_ sign of an Apple apologist, which Alan Baker personifies, is
> that they'll ask for a cite and you give them a thread or even a handful of
> threads, each of which contains anywhere from a handful to scores of
> reliable references.

And why should I got searching through a thread to find a cite which
you've just claimed will contain an actual reliable reference, Liar?

Why don't you provide the actual link to those references?

>
> Every single time, the apologists like Alan Baker claim they didn't see any
> cites simply because they _never_ even once in their lives have _clicked_
> on the references you provided.

Wrong, Liar.

>
> *It's shocking proof people that _oblivious_ to facts ... actually exist.*

That's not even English, Liar. Try again.

[Nomen Nescio]

In article <r34g1u$hof$4...@news.mixmin.net>