Verizon confirmed dual-SIM XS, XS Max & XR iPhone can't deliver 3G/4G speeds [customers currently stuck with antiquated 2G]

[Arlen Holder]

Proof yet again, if you still need proof that is, Apple never tests
anything in the real world, since this is (yet again, for the umpteenth
time) an *obvious* problem to test for!

Verizon confirmed the new dual-SIM functionality integrated into Apple's
iPhone XS, XS Max and XR cannot deliver 4G or even 3G speeds and leaves
customers stuck with antiquated 2G (where the number of cases is not yet
clear).

"Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment."
<https://www.pcmag.com/news/364678/apples-dual-sim-tech-ruins-verizon-coverage>

[nospam]

In article <prckct$gfl$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:

> Proof yet again, if you still need proof that is, Apple never tests
> anything in the real world, since this is (yet again, for the umpteenth
> time) an *obvious* problem to test for!
>
> Verizon confirmed the new dual-SIM functionality integrated into Apple's
> iPhone XS, XS Max and XR cannot deliver 4G or even 3G speeds and leaves
> customers stuck with antiquated 2G (where the number of cases is not yet
> clear).

proof yet again you haven't a clue.

esim support is relatively new, and verizon and other carriers need to
upgrade their systems for it. that work is not complete, making the
problem entirely verizon, not apple.

they would prefer not to, instead staying with physical sims, but the
reality is that they need to.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:40:32 -0400, nospam wrote:

> proof yet again you haven't a clue.

I'm against the numerous omissions, lies & falsehoods by Apple MARKETING.
*Did Apple MARKETING tell their customers they'd be stuck at 2G speeds?*

I love that you Apple Apologists, apologize every time Apple screws up.
Do you think Apple MARKETING told their customers they'd get 2G speeds?

New Apple iPhone Problem Suddenly Confirmed
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/10/30/apple-iphone-xs-max-xr-upgrade-cost-price-esim-se2-dual-sim-5g-4g-repair-costs/#559fa21c5196>
"it has just been confirmed one of them is not working as advertisedĄK"

"Verizon has confirmed... the new dual-SIM functionality integrated
into Apples iPhone XS, XS Max & XR cannot deliver 4G or even 3G speeds"

"Verizon confirmed it is in discussions *with Apple* about how to
solve this [*Apple problem*] and the carrier is hopeful a fix
[*by Apple*] can be achieved [*by Apple*] before the end of the year"

*Did Apple MARKETING tell their customers they'd be stuck at 2G speeds?*

[nospam]

In article <prcqfc$qe7$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:

> "Verizon has confirmed... the new dual-SIM functionality integrated
> into Apples iPhone XS, XS Max & XR cannot deliver 4G or even 3G speeds"

verizon confirmed that it's *their* issue and that they'll support
esims by the end of the year.

esim support requires the carriers to update *their* infrastructure.

some carriers have already done so, where it's already working without
issue, while others are dragging their feet, including verizon.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209096>

[Arlen_Holder]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:13:00 -0400, nospam wrote:

> verizon confirmed that it's *their* issue and that they'll support
> esims by the end of the year.
>
> esim support requires the carriers to update *their* infrastructure.
>
> some carriers have already done so, where it's already working without
> issue, while others are dragging their feet, including verizon.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209096>

You can apologize all you want, nospam ... as it's perfectly in character
for you to make up blatant imaginary excuses for Apple's design flaws...

I simply quote the verbatim published facts...

The Verge:
"Verizon service won┤ work well with Apple's dual-SIM setup..."
"The carrier is working *_with Apple_* to get things fixed..."

*"The issue is how the new iPhones handle having two SIM cards."*

[Arlen_Holder]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 00:21:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen_Holder wrote:

> The Verge:
> "Verizon service won┤ work well with Apple's dual-SIM setup..."
> "The carrier is working *_with Apple_* to get things fixed..."
>
> *"The issue is how the new iPhones handle having two SIM cards."*

Oops.

While I always speak facts, I forgot to post the URL proving those facts.
<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042266/verizon-apple-dual-sim-esim-setup-issues-2g-cdma>

[badgolferman]

Arlen_Holder wrote:

>On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 00:21:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen_Holder wrote:
>
>> The Verge:

>> "Verizon service won¢t work well with Apple's dual-SIM setup..."

>> "The carrier is working *_with Apple_* to get things fixed..."
>>
>> *"The issue is how the new iPhones handle having two SIM cards."*
>
>Oops.
>
>While I always speak facts, I forgot to post the URL proving those
>facts.
><https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042266/verizon-apple-dual-sim-esim-setup-issues-2g-cdma>
>
>*"The issue is how the new iPhones handle having two SIM cards."*

What does this statement say to you?

But according to PCMag’s report, the issue comes up when using a
Verizon SIM as a secondary SIM card. Currently, Verizon customers will
see their secondary connection bumped down to the carrier’s legacy 2G
CDMA network (as opposed to AT&T and T-Mobile, which work with LTE even
when working as a secondary SIM).

[Arlen_Holder]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 11:04:17 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> What does this statement say to you?
>
> But according to PCMag’s report, the issue comes up when using a
> Verizon SIM as a secondary SIM card. Currently, Verizon customers will
> see their secondary connection bumped down to the carrier’s legacy 2G
> CDMA network (as opposed to AT&T and T-Mobile, which work with LTE even
> when working as a secondary SIM).

I realize Apple owners blame everyone but Apple for iPhone design flaws.
I also realize these phones are some of the most expensive in the world.

They are highly marketed - and highly touted - by Apple MARKETING.
And their owners "think" they are (somehow?) special.

Given that...
Let's use logic, if it's possible with people on this newsgroup.
Let's use a real-life style example, as part of that logic.

As you're well aware, bimmers come in GM or ZF transmissions.
BMWs are also highly marketed - & highly touted - by BMW MARKETING.
And their owners "think" they are special. (e.g., special fluids).

If the brand new extremely expensive bimmer with a GM steptronic
transmission goes into fail safe mode when it's brand new such that it
can't get past second gear (e.g., 2G speeds) even though it was widely
advertised and benchmarked to not only have 3G gearing, but even 4G
gearing, and when the ZF transmissions clearly do not have that out of the
box problem, do you absolve BMW MARKETING of testgeing and reporting
responsibility?
o Yes
o No
(pick one)

[badgolferman]

The report YOU submitted clearly says the dual SIM issue does not
affect ATT and T-Mobile customers, only VZW customers. It probably has
something to do with the VZW CDMA network, whereas ATT / T-Mobile use
GSM networks.

I suppose you /could/ stretch this into faulting Apple for making VZW
compatible phones and not fully testing them with VZW, but any logical
conclusion leads to the problem being with VZW's network.

[nospam]

In article <xn0lgxen...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Arlen_Holder wrote:
> ...

> The report YOU submitted clearly says the dual SIM issue does not
> affect ATT and T-Mobile customers, only VZW customers. It probably has
> something to do with the VZW CDMA network, whereas ATT / T-Mobile use
> GSM networks.

quite likely, as well as how verizon provisions phones (not just
iphones), which has a few quirks.

> I suppose you /could/ stretch this into faulting Apple for making VZW
> compatible phones and not fully testing them with VZW, but any logical
> conclusion leads to the problem being with VZW's network.

further supported by esims working properly with numerous other
carriers *now*.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:35:22 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> The report YOU submitted clearly says the dual SIM issue does not
> affect ATT and T-Mobile customers, only VZW customers. It probably has
> something to do with the VZW CDMA network, whereas ATT / T-Mobile use
> GSM networks.
>
> I suppose you /could/ stretch this into faulting Apple for making VZW
> compatible phones and not fully testing them with VZW, but any logical
> conclusion leads to the problem being with VZW's network.

Which is exactly why I brought up the case of BMW GM & ZF transmissions,
where only the GM transmission is stuck in second gear while the ZF
transmission works in 2G, 3G, and 4G.

As the owner of that Bimmer, whom do you bring the vehicle to for the
warranty repair?
o BMW
o GM
(Pick one.)

You Apple Apologists apologize for _any_ Apple iPhone design flaw.

HINT: You don't bring the bimmer to GM to fix; you bring it to BMW.
(and you let BMW work with GM to fix the bimmer that BMW designed).

[Arlen_Holder]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:51:38 -0400, nospam wrote:

> further supported by esims working properly with numerous other
> carriers *now*.

There's a reason I brought up the issue with the GM and ZF transmissions in
bimmers where the GM transmission working with the BMW shift lever is stuck
in 2G while the ZF transmission can use 2G, 3G, and 4G.

*The "bimmer" is designed by BMW just as the iPhone is designed by Apple.*

This is clearly yet another situation where the overall system iPhone
design is flawed such that it's stuck in 2G speeds where it's not the
consumer's fault that Apple lied to them (it's the consumer's fault for
*believing* what Apple MARKETING told them, which is that they'd get 2G,
3G, and 4G speeds.

Verizon can't "fix" the problem alone - it has to be fixed *with Apple*
because it's a design flaw in the iPhone itself.

Apple designs those iPhones, do they not?
Apple _knows_ their carriers, do they not?
Apple works with those carriers, on a daily basis, so they not?

These are some of the most expensive phones in the world, are they not?
Then they should work at higher than 2G speeds, should they not?

You can apologize all you want for this design flaw.
That doesn't change the fact that iPhone users are stuck at 2G speeds.

That's a fact.

[nospam]

In article <prf1kc$dvv$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen_Holder

<a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> wrote:

>
> Verizon can't "fix" the problem alone

yes they can, which is exactly what they're doing.

> - it has to be fixed *with Apple*

nope. apple is helping. nothing wrong with that.

> because it's a design flaw in the iPhone itself.

nope. esim support works perfectly fine with numerous other carriers,
which means it *isn't* a flaw with the iphone. it's something specific
to verizon.

[joe]

If the fix comes from Verizon or Apple is largely irrelevant. What is
more important that a fix IS expected.

That the nym-changer deliberately edited out of his so-called verbatim
quotes is that the issue only occurs under certain conditions and is not
a behavior of all iPhones on a Verizon network. Another deliberate
misrepresentation of facts.

This issue impacts far fewer users than Arlen would want us to believe.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:58:31 -0500, joe wrote:

> If the fix comes from Verizon or Apple is largely irrelevant. What is
> more important that a fix IS expected.
>
> That the nym-changer deliberately edited out of his so-called verbatim
> quotes is that the issue only occurs under certain conditions and is not
> a behavior of all iPhones on a Verizon network. Another deliberate
> misrepresentation of facts.
>
> This issue impacts far fewer users than Arlen would want us to believe.

*Apologists blame everyone but Apple for Apple's flawed design decisions.*

You Apple Apologists will apologize for everything Apple designs badly.
And, you _blame_ everyone but Apple (generally nospam blames Android!).

Never forget these are some of the most expensive phones in the world.

No customer who buys a BMW expects the GM transmission to be stuck at 2G
because of how BMW designed the transmission to interface with the shift
lever, while the ZF transmission works as advertised at 2G, 3G, & 4G
speeds.

Only a fool of an Apple customer would pay some of the highest prices in
the world for an iPhone, and then be stuck at 2G speeds simply because
Apple didn't design the phone with Verizon to work at 3G & 4G speeds.

That you Apple Apologists don't see that inherent basic adult logic is why
you are Apple Apologists in the first place - and you always will be.

*Apologists blame everyone but Apple for Apple's flawed design decisions.*

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-10-31 12:14, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Proof yet again, if you still need proof that is, Apple never tests
> anything in the real world, since this is (yet again, for the umpteenth
> time) an *obvious* problem to test for!

Verizon is am odd network because it is based on old abandonned tech
CDMA with LTE tacked on. If you read article carefully, it appears that
the iPhone doesn't fully switch from one SIM to another but rather keeps
primary SIM as primary connection for some stuff.

If you switch Verizon SIM to secondary SIM, there is no primary SIM and
thus fallback to old CDMA which is what happens when you don't have a SIM.

I wouldn't say this is a "bug". I suspect that in real networks, if you
move your only SIM to secondary SIM, you won't get connection at all
since that primary connection for basic stuff won't be available so it
becomes more obvious you can't do that.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-10-31 13:58, Arlen Holder wrote:

> I love that you Apple Apologists, apologize every time Apple screws up.
> Do you think Apple MARKETING told their customers they'd get 2G speeds?

Verizon doesn't have 3G. It went from 2.5G CDMA to 4G LTE.

And when you set the one SIM you have as secondary SIM, the phone lacks
primary SIM, so not having service is normal. In the case of Verizon,
because CDMA exists without a SIM, the phone will fallback to CDMA when
it doesn't have a primary SIM.

[nospam]

In article <fOGCD.524644$MK2.1...@fx35.iad>, JF Mezei

<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Verizon is am odd network because it is based on old abandonned tech
> CDMA with LTE tacked on.

cdma is not an old abandoned tech, nor is lte tacked on any more than
it is for hspa.

[Ant]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-10-31 13:58, Arlen Holder wrote:

> > I love that you Apple Apologists, apologize every time Apple screws up.
> > Do you think Apple MARKETING told their customers they'd get 2G speeds?

> Verizon doesn't have 3G. It went from 2.5G CDMA to 4G LTE.

Um, Verizon has 3G as shown on my old iPhone 4S (iOS v9.3.5). I have
seen go down to 1X too.
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[JF Mezei]

On 2018-11-01 17:26, Ant wrote:

>> Verizon doesn't have 3G. It went from 2.5G CDMA to 4G LTE.
>
> Um, Verizon has 3G as shown on my old iPhone 4S (iOS v9.3.5). I have
> seen go down to 1X too.

In the USA, you can't trust what the phone displays.

AT&T got Apple to allow a trick so AT&T's HSPA (3G) would show up as
"3G" on the handsest.

CDMA had a markleted "3G" which was really 2.5G speeds.