App development

[Chris]

I've got an idea for my first app and am looking for good resources for
help and tips writing for ios. What are people's best or go-to resources
they use for developing apps?

I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.

Many thanks!

[nospam]

In article <rqgca9$foa$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've got an idea for my first app and am looking for good resources for
> help and tips writing for ios. What are people's best or go-to resources
> they use for developing apps?

the stanford ios development class is very good, originally taught by
apple employees and later stanford faculty.

apple wwdc videos are also an excellent resource.

there are also numerous tutorials online and many excellent books.

> I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
> programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.

that's not going to be particularly relevant.

[Your Name]

Check the App Store and you may well find someone else has already
created a similar app.

You'll also need a Mac. You can't develop Apple apps in Windows.

The best place for resources is probably Apple's Developer website:
<https://developer.apple.com>

There are some apps out there which will allow you to make a simple app
in a Game Maker-style approach, but for real app development you're
best to use Apple's Swift programming lanuguage and XCode developer
software, both of which are free to download. If you've got an iPad or
a Mac (running relatively new version of macOS), there's also the free
"Swift Playgrounds" edu-game to help learn Swift.
<https://www.apple.com/swift/playgrounds/>

To distribute an app for others to use via the App Store, you need to
sign up to Apple's Developer program with an annual fee (US$99). You
can't officially distribute apps in any other way - unofficial apps
usually require the user to have jailbroken their device.
<https://developer.apple.com/programs/how-it-works/>

It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
are "too old".

If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.

[nospam]

In article <rqgrb8$153h$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
> the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
> website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
> versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
> are "too old".

it costs nothing to be an apple developer. xcode is free, as are
numerous resources, and it's trivial to find older versions of xcode.

> If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
> even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
> you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.

nonsense.

[Lewis]

In message <rqgrb8$153h$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer

Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
developer accounts? Super expensive.

WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
Nada. Zilch.

IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
stretch of the imagination expensive.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but, the Rockettes? I mean, it's mostly girls,
isn't it?"

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:42:18 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> You'll also need a Mac. You can't develop Apple apps in Windows.

Regarding:
o App development, by Chris
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/MShq86Qpn_Y>

Developers often code such that iOS apps are also ported to Android...

o Where, by way of contrast, Android Studio doesn't limit the platform:
<https://developer.android.com/studio#downloads>

Unlike Apple who limits everything, it's free, login free, & open platform:
o Windows 7/8/10 (64-bit)
o Mac OS X 10.10 (Yosemite) or higher, up to 10.14 (macOS Mojave)
o Linux 64-bit distribution capable of running 32-bit applications
o Chrome OS

Of course, then there are the TSMC Silicon ARM based Macs to worry about...
o Based on this one hit, it "seems" that Android Studio works with ARM Macs

o Will Android Studio work on Mac with an ARM processor?
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62529393/will-android-studio-work-on-mac-with-an-arm-processor>
"Android Studio 4.1 works"

Here's the Android Studio page on the port to the new ARM Mac TSMC silicon:
<https://androidstudio.googleblog.com/2020/12/android-emulator-apple-silicon-preview.html>

It's dated "Friday, December 4, 2020" so it should be the most up-to-date
information on the port of Android Studio to TSMC silicon ARM Macs.

> The best place for resources is probably Apple's Developer website:
> <https://developer.apple.com>

For those who are interested in coding of apps without _any_ hurdles...
o This tutorial constrains a dozen complete apps & all the steps documented

I wrote that tutorial myself, so _every_ step was tested by me to work!

o Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows worked just fine (in about an hour)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0>

Note: The _complete_ (and yes, I mean complete!) code for more than a dozen
apps is in that tutorial so that you can have a dozen apps on your phone in
just a few hours of effort - which was exciting to prove it _is_ that easy.

Android Studio
o *It just works*

Good luck coding your first app, which should be up & running in an hour
o From the moment you start to the moment it's running on your device

HINT: Compare that to what it will take using the Apple tools on a Mac!
o No login, no hassle, no registration, no money, no ads, no restrictions
--
People write these tutorials out of the sheer goodness of their hearts.

Note: I had AMD-specific problems, but they turned out to be my lack of
configuration knowledge, which I added to the tutorial to help others.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 16:01:40 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
>> the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
>> website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
>> versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
>> are "too old".
>
> it costs nothing to be an apple developer. xcode is free, as are
> numerous resources, and it's trivial to find older versions of xcode.
>
>> If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
>> even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
>> you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.
>
> nonsense.

Hi nospam,

Are you (yet again) bullshitting (as usual), nospam?
o Why do you feel so desperate a need to bullshit us all the time, nospam?

I think Your Name's objections are valid, based on my past experience.
o Compared to Android personal app development, Apple is more restrictive

For example, unless you're using the latest Android APIs...
o You can develop in any older SDK that you feel fits your audience

After I created my first score of apps on Android, fully documented here:

o Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows worked just fine (in about an hour)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aW64zYeBtF0>

I wasn't able to find anywhere near that no registration, any platform,
completely free for personal app creation functionality when researching
how to use the Apple tools.

Are you claiming that YourName is wrong that Apple dev is more restrictive?
o Are you brazenly denying facts because you _hate_ what Apple is, nospam?
--
Apologists brazenly deny facts because they _hate_ what Apple actually is;
(they vastly prefer Apple to be what MARKETING fed them to believe it was).

[Your Name]

On 2020-12-06 00:37:24 +0000, Lewis said:
> In message <rqgrb8$153h$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Your Name
> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
>
> Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
> developer accounts? Super expensive.
>
> WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
> Nada. Zilch.
>
> IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
> A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
> stretch of the imagination expensive.

Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.

That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.

For a US$1 app, you have to sell at least 115 copies just to break
even, which is difficult in the over-crowded App Store even if it's not
a niche-use app.

Plus, for a real developer, there's also the cost of having a "new
enough" Mac and iOS / iPadOS devices to program and test on since Apple
does cancel the ability of apps made in older versions of Swift and
Xcode to be used in the App Store.

So, yes, being a proper developer *can* *be* expensive. :-\

[Chris]

Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2020-12-05 16:25:45 +0000, Chris said:
>
>> I've got an idea for my first app and am looking for good resources for
>> help and tips writing for ios. What are people's best or go-to resources
>> they use for developing apps?
>>
>> I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
>> programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.
>>
>> Many thanks!
>
> Check the App Store and you may well find someone else has already
> created a similar app.

Nope

> You'll also need a Mac. You can't develop Apple apps in Windows.

Check

> The best place for resources is probably Apple's Developer website:
> <https://developer.apple.com>
>
> There are some apps out there which will allow you to make a simple app
> in a Game Maker-style approach, but for real app development you're
> best to use Apple's Swift programming lanuguage and XCode developer
> software, both of which are free to download. If you've got an iPad or
> a Mac (running relatively new version of macOS), there's also the free
> "Swift Playgrounds" edu-game to help learn Swift.
> <https://www.apple.com/swift/playgrounds/>
>
> To distribute an app for others to use via the App Store, you need to
> sign up to Apple's Developer program with an annual fee (US$99). You
> can't officially distribute apps in any other way - unofficial apps
> usually require the user to have jailbroken their device.
> <https://developer.apple.com/programs/how-it-works/>

I thought it was free if you only had free apps.

> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
> the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
> website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
> versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
> are "too old".
>
> If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
> even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
> you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.

If everyone had that mentality we'd have no progress. At the moment I'm
doing it out of interest and to do something useful.

Thanks for the other info, though.

[nospam]

In article <rqho2n$13qe$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
> >
> > Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
> > developer accounts? Super expensive.
> >
> > WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
> > Nada. Zilch.
> >
> > IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
> > A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
> > stretch of the imagination expensive.
>
> Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
> making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
> crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.
>
> That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
> putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
> to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.

false. there are other options.

> For a US$1 app, you have to sell at least 115 copies just to break
> even, which is difficult in the over-crowded App Store even if it's not
> a niche-use app.

with more than 1 billion ios devices, that's not difficult if the app
is even the slightest bit useful.

> Plus, for a real developer, there's also the cost of having a "new
> enough" Mac and iOS / iPadOS devices to program and test on since Apple
> does cancel the ability of apps made in older versions of Swift and
> Xcode to be used in the App Store.

where 'new enough' is any mac in the last 5 years or so.

> So, yes, being a proper developer *can* *be* expensive. :-\

it 'can' be but it is not always.

[nospam]

In article <rqideh$4dr$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >
> > To distribute an app for others to use via the App Store, you need to
> > sign up to Apple's Developer program with an annual fee (US$99). You
> > can't officially distribute apps in any other way - unofficial apps
> > usually require the user to have jailbroken their device.
> > <https://developer.apple.com/programs/how-it-works/>
>
> I thought it was free if you only had free apps.

it's $99 to put something in the store.

it's $0 to develop an app, and then decide later if it's worth putting
in the store.

> > It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
> > the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
> > website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
> > versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
> > are "too old".
> >
> > If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
> > even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
> > you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.
>
> If everyone had that mentality we'd have no progress. At the moment I'm
> doing it out of interest and to do something useful.

that's all that's needed, and that's entirely free.

> Thanks for the other info, though.

his information is incorrect. he does not develop ios apps (or mac or
any other type of app for that matter).

[Your Name]

Nope. It's US$99 per year to be able to distribute apps on the App
Store (assuming the app passes Apple's rules and checks). Whether you
decide to make it a free app is irrelevant, although obviously there
wouldn't be Apple's commission charged for each download.

One piece of advice for free apps: do NOT connect it to advert servers
to try to make side-money. That simply makes the app annoying
(especially those with full screen adverts!) and quickly deleted by
many people.

>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer - you'll also really need
>> the latest versions of macOS and iOS / iPadOS on your devices. Apple's
>> website makes it hard / impossible to find Swift and XCode for older
>> versions and the App Store won't accept apps created in versions that
>> are "too old".
>>
>> If you think you're going to make piles of money from an app, don't
>> even waste your time starting. You'd just as likely to "make it big" if
>> you just used that US$99 fee to buy lottery tickets instead.
>
> If everyone had that mentality we'd have no progress. At the moment I'm
> doing it out of interest and to do something useful.
>
> Thanks for the other info, though.

If you want to make an app, then make an app, but I'm just saying that
anyone thinking they are going to become a millionaire or even make a
living from the App Store has missed that boat a LONG time ago.
Obvoisuly since you're talking above about a free app, then you
wouldn't make any money anyway.

It was only even potentially possible to make money in the early days.
Now it's extremely difficult to even get your app noticed. The same
goes for all the other "get rich quick" dreams associated with ebook
publishing, blog writing, vblog / YouTube channels, etc. Only the very
lucky, the very talented, and/or the very hardworking self-promoters
can make money out of such things these days.

[nospam]

In article <rqjfs2$15ka$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> One piece of advice for free apps: do NOT connect it to advert servers
> to try to make side-money. That simply makes the app annoying
> (especially those with full screen adverts!) and quickly deleted by
> many people.

ads do not have to be annoying. most apps are not, but regardless, it's
not that difficult to block them.

[badgolferman]

Would you care to inform us how to do that on an iPhone? Turn off cellular
and WiFi service? That won’t work with games against online opponents.

[Lewis]

In message <061220200949408898%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <rqho2n$13qe$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> >> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
>> >
>> > Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
>> > developer accounts? Super expensive.
>> >
>> > WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
>> > Nada. Zilch.
>> >
>> > IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
>> > A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
>> > stretch of the imagination expensive.
>>
>> Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
>> making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
>> crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.

First of all, you said *APPLE* Developer. Second, you are still wrong.

>> That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
>> putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
>> to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.

You said no such thing, liar. You said "Being an Apple Developer is very
expensive" which is a lie.

> false. there are other options.

>> For a US$1 app, you have to sell at least 115 copies just to break
>> even, which is difficult in the over-crowded App Store even if it's not
>> a niche-use app.

> with more than 1 billion ios devices, that's not difficult if the app
> is even the slightest bit useful.

And irrelevant anyway, as $99 is not "very expensive" by any measure.
And that is not a charge PER APP, but a charge PER DEVELOPER.

>> Plus, for a real developer, there's also the cost of having a "new
>> enough" Mac and iOS / iPadOS devices to program and test on since Apple
>> does cancel the ability of apps made in older versions of Swift and
>> Xcode to be used in the App Store.

All development of computer programs requires a computer, dumbass. Xcode
supports many versions of both macOS and iOS for building.

> where 'new enough' is any mac in the last 5 years or so.

>> So, yes, being a proper developer *can* *be* expensive. :-\

No, it is not expensive and you are worming away from your bullshit lie.

> it 'can' be but it is not always.

It is never expensive unless the developer is very stupid (like one
person I know who bought an iMac Pro and a LG 5K second display because
he thought he might wants to write an iOS app. He was not and is not a
programmer and has no idea what he is doing and his still not produced a
single app, but there's not fixing stupid.

--
Imagine all the people Sharing all the world

[Lewis]

In message <061220201615363414%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <rqjfs2$15ka$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> One piece of advice for free apps: do NOT connect it to advert servers
>> to try to make side-money. That simply makes the app annoying
>> (especially those with full screen adverts!) and quickly deleted by
>> many people.

Yeah, all those ad-supported apps are so unsuccessful and none of them
make money.

What a fucking idiot dumbass you are.

--
Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?

[nospam]

In article <rqjhtd$4r6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >> One piece of advice for free apps: do NOT connect it to advert servers
> >> to try to make side-money. That simply makes the app annoying
> >> (especially those with full screen adverts!) and quickly deleted by
> >> many people.
> >
> > ads do not have to be annoying. most apps are not, but regardless, it's
> > not that difficult to block them.
> >
>
> Would you care to inform us how to do that on an iPhone? Turn off cellular

> and WiFi service? That wonšt work with games against online opponents.

there are assorted ios apps that can block ads, trackers and assorted
other stuff, however, i prefer to do it upstream on my router for all
devices.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 06 Dec 2020 16:52:02 -0500, nospam wrote:

> there are assorted ios apps that can block ads, trackers and assorted
> other stuff, however, i prefer to do it upstream on my router for all
> devices.

I'm sure nospam is aware of the MVP hosts file but others may not be:
o <https://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, to help others, as always.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 21:19:42 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Would you care to inform us how to do that on an iPhone? Turn off cellular

> and WiFi service? That wonĒt work with games against online opponents.

Hi badgolferman,

I have plenty of iPads but they're mostly used by the grandkids to play
games, where I've seen those obnoxious ads at times, and they suck.

However, on Android, I can't say I've seen an ad in a long time.

What you need, on either platform, is a judicious use of selective
software, such as choosing apps that don't show ads (e.g., YouTube skins
that subscribe anonymously and which don't ever show Google's ads), and ad
blockers (such as the VPN-style ad blockers which abound on Android).

I have two iPads in my hands, one of which Apple bricked and I haven't felt
like resurrecting it as I have another that simply keeps asking me to
authenticate when I have never logged into the iCloud account since the day
I got it - I log in once, and then forget it forever).

If you need me to test something for you, I can, where, in general, at
least on other mobile devices, the way to never see any ads is simply:
1. Choose good free apps (I have over six hundred on my $100 phone), and,
2. Use an ad blocker (mine is AdClear on Android).

The question then becomes:
a. What's the best free ad-free app for what you are doing?
(e.g., NewPipe is the best free ad free app for YouTube, bar none)
b. What's the best free ad free systemic ad blocker?
(e.g., AdClear works for me on Android)

I know "NewPipe" doesn't work on iOS (too bad for you); but I have used the
other supposedly Google-ad-free apps on iOS (e.g., MyTube, VideoTube),
which simply substitute their ads for Google's ads (last I tested them).

They're better'n nothing though, which is my point that you first need to
judiciously choose free ad-free apps (which is easy on Android, but less
easily done on iOS because Apple won't give you the filters you really want
for the App Store).

Secondly, you need a good systemic ad blocker on iOS. Let me check if
AdClear is on iOS... gimme a sec... <https://adclear.com/>

Which says, for Android the following:
"blocks annoying ads in any browser or app, while keeping you safe from
malware-infected ads. For enhanced security, AdClear Content Blocker
features built-in DNS protection giving you the freedom to select
from a popular list of DNS servers or choose your own."

But what does it say for iOS? Oh. Ok. That's weird. But it is what it is.
"AdClear Plus for iOS blocks ads in Safari, blocks trackers that follow
you from site to site, and takes just seconds to enable."

What's weird is that, on Android, it's systemic. That means it works for
everything, not just "Safari", and it's not a browser extension in Android,
but a systemic ad blocking tool.

But on iOS, it does far (far) less, but at least, if it works for Safari,
then you have your browser blocking taken care of (if it works, that is).

Looking up iOS ad blocker reviews, and noting many may be shills, we find:
o How to block ads on iPhone & iPad
<https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/block-ads-iphone-ipad-3627089/>

o The Best Ad Blockers for iPhone and iPad
<https://www.avast.com/c-best-ad-blocker-iphone>

o Best ad blockers for iPhone and iPad in 2020
<https://www.imore.com/best-ad-blockers-iphone-and-ipad>

In summary, you can set up your mobile device to never see ads, which
takes, AFAIK, either the use of only the best free ad-free apps, or the use
of a good free ad-free ad blocker (never do you need to pay for anything).
--
It takes intelligence to populate a mobile device with only the best apps.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 21:32:19 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> What a fucking idiot dumbass you are.

Regarding:
o App development, by Chris
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/MShq86Qpn_Y>

Adults will notice that the Type III apologists revert to "instant child"
whenever confronted with a point of view they simply can't comprehend.

Simply because Lewis is incapable of processing that nospam (correctly so)
claimed ads can easily be blocked, Lewis, being a Type III apologist,
instantly resorts to vitriolic hate-filled fifth-grade bullying behavior as
his only defense mechanism.

Type III apologists do this whenever anyone has a point of view different
than theirs, which they can't comprehend, simply because their brain can't.

By this childish ad hominem attack behavior...
o Type III apologists can maintain their imaginary belief systems intact.

Type I (nospam)
Type II (sms, Alan Browne, Chris, Savageduck, et al.)
Type III (Jolly Roger, Lewis, Alan Baker, Joerg Lorenz, et al.)

[Your Name]

On 2020-12-06 21:30:53 +0000, Lewis said:
> In message <061220200949408898%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam
> <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <rqho2n$13qe$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
>> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
>>>> developer accounts? Super expensive.
>>>>
>>>> WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
>>>> Nada. Zilch.
>>>>
>>>> IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
>>>> A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
>>>> stretch of the imagination expensive.
>>>
>>> Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
>>> making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
>>> crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.
>
> First of all, you said *APPLE* Developer. Second, you are still wrong.

For God's sake!! :-\

The question was about iOS, not Apple developing in general. The US$99
is what you have to pay to distribute iOS / iPadOS apps via the
official Apple App Store.

Having said that, the ever-tighening seucrity of macOS means it's
getting harder to distribute Mac apps without being an official
signed-up developer becauser that's the only way you'll get an official
app signature.

>>> That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
>>> putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
>>> to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.
>
> You said no such thing, liar. You said "Being an Apple Developer is very
> expensive" which is a lie.

No. I said "It can be expensive to be an Apple developer"

Another argumentative moron who zero reading comprehension abilities
added to the killfile. :-\

[nospam]

In article <rqkg8k$m3e$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >>>>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
> >>>> developer accounts? Super expensive.
> >>>>
> >>>> WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
> >>>> Nada. Zilch.
> >>>>
> >>>> IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
> >>>> A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
> >>>> stretch of the imagination expensive.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
> >>> making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
> >>> crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.
> >
> > First of all, you said *APPLE* Developer. Second, you are still wrong.
>
> For God's sake!! :-\
>
> The question was about iOS, not Apple developing in general. The US$99
> is what you have to pay to distribute iOS / iPadOS apps via the
> official Apple App Store.

developing costs $0.

distributing via the app store is $99 but that is only needed if the
app is to be distributed via the store.

> Having said that, the ever-tighening seucrity of macOS means it's
> getting harder to distribute Mac apps without being an official
> signed-up developer becauser that's the only way you'll get an official
> app signature.

false. it's actually getting easier.

you've never written a single app and know absolutely nothing about the
process.

> >>> That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
> >>> putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
> >>> to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.
> >
> > You said no such thing, liar. You said "Being an Apple Developer is very
> > expensive" which is a lie.
>
> No. I said "It can be expensive to be an Apple developer"

it 'can' be if someone is incredibly stupid and buys a 28 core mac pro
to write a simple app.

otherwise, that statement is false.

> Another argumentative moron who zero reading comprehension abilities
> added to the killfile. :-\

further proof you have absolutely no clue and don't wish to learn
anything.

[Lewis]

In message <071220200537013090%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <rqkg8k$m3e$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> >>>>> It can be expensive to be an Apple developer
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah, the $0 cost of Xcode can really be a stretch. And those free
>> >>>> developer accounts? Super expensive.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> WTF drugs are you on? There is *NO* COST to be an Apple Developer. Zip.
>> >>>> Nada. Zilch.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> IF you want to put an App in Apple's stores, that cost $100 a YEAR.
>> >>>> A burdensome cost to some people, somewhere, I am sure, but not by any
>> >>>> stretch of the imagination expensive.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, as I said, download Swift and XCode is free, but unless you're
>> >>> making the app for *only* your own device(s) or for the jailbreak
>> >>> crowd, being a real iOS / iPadOS developer is not free.
>> >
>> > First of all, you said *APPLE* Developer. Second, you are still wrong.
>>
>> For God's sake!! :-\
>>
>> The question was about iOS,

You said ""It can be expensive to be an Apple Developer". Your bullshit
error was a bullshit error and you trying to duck and weave isn't going
to work.

>> not Apple developing in general. The US$99
>> is what you have to pay to distribute iOS / iPadOS apps via the
>> official Apple App Store.

> developing costs $0.

And $99/yr for a developer (not an App) is not "expensive".

>> Having said that, the ever-tighening seucrity of macOS means it's
>> getting harder to distribute Mac apps without being an official
>> signed-up developer becauser that's the only way you'll get an official
>> app signature.

More bullshit from you. This is *entirely* false. There is no need at
all to pay for a developer account to write Mac Apps unless you want to
put them on the App Store.

> false. it's actually getting easier.

Yep.

> you've never written a single app and know absolutely nothing about the
> process.

Yep.

>> >>> That US$99 per year is what I meant and purposely said it was for
>> >>> putting the app on the App Store ... which is the only legitimate way
>> >>> to get apps onto iOS / iPadOS devices.
>> >
>> > You said no such thing, liar. You said "Being an Apple Developer is very
>> > expensive" which is a lie.
>>
>> No. I said "It can be expensive to be an Apple developer"

Still wrong. Wrong then, wrong now.

>> Another argumentative moron who zero reading comprehension abilities
>> added to the killfile. :-\

Your bullshit statements is a YOU problem, not a everyone else problem.

> further proof you have absolutely no clue and don't wish to learn
> anything.

Incapable of learning anything at all.

--
Knowledge equals power... --... Power equals energy... People were
stupid, sometimes. They thought the Library was a dangerous place
because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what
made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever
be was the simple fact that it was a library. Energy equals
matter... --... Matter equals mass. And mass distorts space. It
distorts it into polyfractal L-Space. --Guards! Guards!

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 18:57:40 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> Another argumentative moron who zero reading comprehension abilities
> added to the killfile. :-\

Hi Your Name,

This is a classic discussion.
o I love it!

I can learn a lot.

The TYPE III apologists, who can't fathom your argument...
o Simply term everything you say to be a "lie by liars".

The Type I apologist, who will defend MARKETING to the death...
o Simply takes on the unrealistic position of Apple, even as he doesn't
believe it.

For example, even nospam knows it's not 0$
o But, like MARKETING, he assumes you already spent the thousands

So, um, yeah, if you _already_ spent the thousands, then it's zero after
that (although it's still a hundred bucks per year, forever).

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 05:37:01 -0500, nospam wrote:

> developing costs $0.

Hi nospam,

What percentage of people own a new home versus an old home?
o What percentage of people own Windows/Linux versus the Mac?

You saying it costs $0 is like saying owning a new home costs $0
o Which is only true if you _already_ own that new home.

If you own an old home, Android Studio works just fine
o No matter _which_ old home you own (Mac, Linux, Windows).

One thing Chris is pointing out is that if you don't own a new home
o i.e., if you don't already own a suitable Mac

Then you have to pay a shit ton of money to get that "new home"
o Even if you already owned a perfectly good "old home" (Linux/Windows).

The point is, Android Studio is 0$ no matter _which_ old home you own.
o Coding for Apple doesn't work on those two VERY COMMON platforms (AFAIK).

Yet again, Apple _always_ restricts what you can do.
o And, yet again, Type I apologists always defend MARKETING to the death.
--
Type I nospam is the bushido code samarai for Apple MARKETING defense.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 21:30:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> You said no such thing, liar. You said "Being an Apple Developer is very
> expensive" which is a lie.

Why is it always the Type III apologists calling everyone a "liar"
o Just because they, themselves, are incapable of factual comprehension?

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 16:14:46 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> One thing Chris is pointing out is that if you don't own a new home
> o i.e., if you don't already own a suitable Mac
>
> Then you have to pay a shit ton of money to get that "new home"
> o Even if you already owned a perfectly good "old home" (Linux/Windows).

Correction: Not Chris, but Your Name...

One thing _Your Name_ is pointing out is that if you don't own a new home

o i.e., if you don't already own a suitable Mac

Then you have to pay a shit ton of money to get that "new home"
o Even if you already owned a perfectly good "old home" (Linux/Windows).

The point is, Android Studio is 0$ no matter _which_ old home you own.

o Coding for Apple doesn't work on those VERY COMMON (& cheap) platforms

[Doc O'Leary]

For your reference, records indicate that

Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I've got an idea for my first app and am looking for good resources for
> help and tips writing for ios. What are people's best or go-to resources
> they use for developing apps?

Start by posting to a comp.sys.mac.programmer group instead of here. While
iOS is *technically* not a Mac, you need a Mac to do it, Apple is trying to
merge the platforms to a large degree, and the groups could use the traffic.

Apple offers plenty of documentation themselves, so I’d say you should try
to get started using their guidelines, and then ask around when you hit a
roadblock. Last I checked, there were a few classes on iTunes U that
seemed like reasonable starting points.

> I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
> programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.

There is a *large* gulf between toy programs and commercial apps. Be
realistic about how far your current skills will get you when it comes to
even the basic functionality of your app.

An alternative approach might be to look into using a cross-platform
framework that is based on a language you already know:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_app_development>

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

[nospam]

In article <rqmjh4$qmu$1...@dont-email.me>, Doc O'Leary

<drol...@2017usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:

>
> An alternative approach might be to look into using a cross-platform
> framework that is based on a language you already know:

the results of those are not great and do not work like a native app
should. it also greatly limits what can be done to the lowest common
denominator across all platforms.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 21:24:16 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> An alternative approach might be to look into using a cross-platform
>> framework that is based on a language you already know:
>
> the results of those are not great and do not work like a native app
> should. it also greatly limits what can be done to the lowest common
> denominator across all platforms.

An intelligent person will instantly note that the Android Studio
development environment works on all common consumer platforms, and, it
doesn't require you to tell Apple who you are (which is a requirement for
Apple's development platform download but not even asked for by Google).

[Chris]

On 08/12/2020 01:05, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've got an idea for my first app and am looking for good resources for
>> help and tips writing for ios. What are people's best or go-to resources
>> they use for developing apps?
>
> Start by posting to a comp.sys.mac.programmer group instead of here. While
> iOS is *technically* not a Mac, you need a Mac to do it, Apple is trying to
> merge the platforms to a large degree, and the groups could use the traffic.
>
> Apple offers plenty of documentation themselves, so I’d say you should try
> to get started using their guidelines, and then ask around when you hit a
> roadblock. Last I checked, there were a few classes on iTunes U that
> seemed like reasonable starting points.
>
>> I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
>> programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.
>
> There is a *large* gulf between toy programs and commercial apps.

This isn't going to be a commercial app so the bar is set low-to-medium.

> Be
> realistic about how far your current skills will get you when it comes to
> even the basic functionality of your app.

Am there already. Mainly using this as an excuse to learn and if it
generates something useful so much the better.

>
> An alternative approach might be to look into using a cross-platform
> framework that is based on a language you already know:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_app_development>
>

Thanks

[nospam]

In article <rqof56$g0q$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >> I'm not a hardcore developer, but I've written my fair share of python
> >> programs and, in the past, a few C and Java ones.
> >
> > There is a *large* gulf between toy programs and commercial apps.
>
> This isn't going to be a commercial app so the bar is set low-to-medium.

then you don't need to worry about paying $99 to put it in the app
store.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:44:12 -0500, nospam wrote:

> then you don't need to worry about paying $99 to put it in the app
> store.

You are still restricted, by Apple, to a Mac.

If this were Android, you aren't restricted by what platform you code on.

Apple _always_ restricts functionality as to sell it back to you.
--
You can't make those ungodly profits off of an intelligent customer base.

[Arlen Holder]

Regarding Chris' thread asking about iOS app development:
o *App development*, Dec 5, 2020, by Chris
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/MShq86Qpn_Y>

If it takes anyone more than 1 hour elapsed time to get his 1st app
up and running on his iPhone, there's something very wrong in iOS.

For details, please see this tutorial I just wrote moments ago:
o *Tutorial Installing Android Studio 4.1.1 on Windows 10* (AMD CPU)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/g3ymz5CPsIk>

Here is a screenshot of a test app, running on my Moto G7 (Android 10):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1tvysJY1/as01.jpg> hello world
--
If it takes anyone more than an hour, something is very wrong on iOS.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Dec 2020 14:23:28 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Many people don't know that the Google Play *website* exists
> (<https://play.google.com/store>).

AFAIK, you can install Android apps _many_ ways, where, I agree with Frank
that it seems people don't know you can install onto Android from a desktop
over the Internet while logged into the Google Play store.

I don't use the Google Play "website" simply because it requires a login
(AFAIK), but I do use the "Aurora Store", which doesn't require a login.
o <https://auroraoss.com/downloads.php>

The Aurora Store will "spoof" anything you want it to spoof, as it grabs
the _exact same_ APK from the Google Play store.
o <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.store/>

Note that, with the Aurora store, you have a switch to _save_ all APKs!
o Just like with the Aurora Droid (which replaces the F-Droid repository).

So yet another way to install free apps on all devices hooked up to your
network is just to send them to your device over your Wi-Fi home LAN.

For example, Nitroshare will send those entire saved APK directories to and
from your Windows, Linux, Mac, and Android devices on your LAN over WiFi.
o NitroShare binaries & source code for all platforms (other than iOS)
<https://nitroshare.net/>

For someone like me who has over 500 apps installed, that's a time saver!
--
Unfortunately, AFAICT, NitroShare does not work on iOS (too bad).