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Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
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Arlen Holder
Oct 4, 2019, 5:05:02 PM10/4/19
to
Philosophy on an upcoming tutorial for setting up Windows in a well
organized KISS philosophy such that search is never needed & reinstall is
trivial.
This KISS concept works for Windows 95, WinXP, Win7, Win10, & even Android,
and especially works beautifully for those who have well organized
functional hierarchies containing literally hundreds of freeware programs,
such as I maintain over the years on all platforms.
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:47:17 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:
> Are these simply the install files for various programs, or their data?
> Just curious.
Hi Ken,
You may wish you had not answered that question, because, I, like Paul, am
purposefully helpful and, like Paul, well educated, such that I provide
details sufficient to comprehend the inherent simplicity of the genius of
KISS concepts.
Everyone organizes their kitchen utensils logically
o Why can't they organize a computer logically?
Here's a more complete answer to your question, since the purpose of Usenet
is to be a potluck where everyone shares value, even among lurkers.
Organization is a tree-like structure.
You have two kinds of "things" on a personal computer you care about.
1. Programs
2. Data
Notice you don't "care" about the "operating system", except what you care
about to interact with (e.g., the menus, or some of the special folders
like "Downloads" or "Screenshots", etc., which are "data" that you care
about.
Given you only care about two things, you only need two top-level
directories, namely
c:\apps
c:\data
Note: Anyone (not you) who stoops down enough to quibble about the name
misses the strategic point, since the actual name isn't of any importance
whatsoever, other than to be easy to type, so I use lower case, singular,
and 8 characters or fewer (due to the fact that even now, Windows doesn't
properly handle spaces sans extra work).
Having said that disclaimer, to more completely answer your question, there
are various "levels" of the answer to that question.
The simplest level requires understanding of 'how' people use "data",
where, oh, say, for an MP3 file, or a JPG file, or a MS Word document
(i.e., most "data" files), the user rarely executes the MP3 player first.
The simply doubleclick on the data file - and - at least in the Windows GUI
(as opposed to, oh, say, the Linux command line), the software knows
exactly which program to execute.
In _that_ case, notice most people "assume" you don't need to bother with
installing the software in any organized hierarchy - where I would "tend"
to agree if that were the only case that software is ever used - but it's
not.
What you call the "install files" are a highly amorphous ill organized mass
of huge classes of tools, from "suites" such as Microsoft Office to
individual tools which obey basic rules (such as Audacity or Irfanview or
VLC), to entire set of (usually big-company) tools that follow no rules
whatsoever (such as anything from Google, for example, Chrome or Epic
variants).
All these tools spread themselves willy nilly all over your kitchen, when,
in fact, they all belong in the same pantry (e.g., c:\apps}, which is why
you'll see tutorials from me on corralling that mess such as:
o Tutorial: How to install the free Brave privacy-based tor-enabled web
browser where YOU want it to install (and how to save a full offline
installer in the process)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/bog50yqc_As/igWDXCO4AwAJ>
That tutorial brings up three good points, that aren't obvious to the hoi
polloi, which is that when you install something, you need to be cognizant
of the organization structure of three things (all of which, by the way,
are EXACTLY the same on an organized system but a royal mess elsewhere).
1. Where do you store the full offline installer
2. Where do you install the actual software
3. Where do you find the software in your cascade menu
(We'll skip the fourth item, the browser 'data', for a moment.)
For something such as that "brave" browser, the answer is simple on a well
organized system - but the answer is a horrible atrocious amazingly
disorganized mess on "most" people's systems.
On an organized system, the answer is obvious for _all_ the systems
where the answer is the same for decades.
1. c:\installers\browsers\brave\full_offline_brave_installer.msi
2. c:\apps\browsers\brave\brave.exe
3. Start > menu > browsers > brave > brave.lnk
(We'll now get to the concept of the "browser data", for a moment.)
There is only one thing left, which we can refer to as:
a. Browser doo doo you care about, and,
b. Browser doo do you do not care about.
For me, I long ago gave up on browser doo doo overall, so there is zero
browser doo do that I care about - but many people use "bookmarks", for
example, and many people have "js files" that do their setup, and many
people have saved logins & passwords, for example.
Me?
I use a _different_ browser for each web page concept, so, for example, one
and only one browser does Google searches. One and only one browser logs
into social account 1. One and only one browser logs into social account 2,
etc., where panopticlick concepts are utilized as are browser hardening.
But for most people, they use the same browser for everything, so for the
browser doo do that they care about, they have two choices:
a. Leave the browser doo do they care about in the browser default location
b. Set the settings to put browser doo doo they care about in "data".
This concept of doo doo you care about versus doo doo you don't care about
applies to all applications, whether a browser or an image editor or a
Microsoft Office editor. They're all just apps. (works the same on mobile
devices too, but the last time I brought in mobile devices on this thread,
I ended up having to deal with the trolls - so let's ignore I said that).
Given all apps are the same, in that they have
a. doo doo you care about, and,
b. doo doo you don't care about...
For the app doo doo that I care about, I set the app to store them in the
"data" hierarchy (such as where I'd put MS word documents or browser
bookmarks, if I cared about them), and for the app doo doo that I don't
care about (e.g., Irfanview ini settings), I leave them wherever the app
wants to put them by default.
It's all really simple, in that an app has only four things:
1. It has a full offline installer (which I save for obvious reasons)
2. It gets put in an installation location (organized by functionality)
3. It has a cascade accordion-style WinXP style menu (same hierarchy)
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MbGhYf3/winxpmenu05.jpg>
4. And, it has doo doo you care about - which goes in the data hierarchy
Everyone organizes their kitchen utensils logically
o Why can't they organize a computer logically?
> Personally, I would put them inside the \Users| folder, to protect them
> from System Restore. True, you can modify what System Restore affects,
> but now you are getting away from the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)
> principle. The KISS principle is far more valuable to the non-expert.
I doubt there is a SIMPLER less complex less foolproof "system restore"
than what I use, although you could argue the finer points of how "my"
system restore is different from your system restore.
My system restore is so KISS that you'll actually guffaw when you hear how
simple it is ... because it doesn't get any simpler.
When I want to "back up" my system:
a. I back up my data hierarchy
b. That's it. There is no other doo doo that I care about.
When I want to "restore" my system:
b. I copy back the data hierarchy
c. And then I re-install all the apps
That's it.
I can re-image the system quickly, as I do all the time also on the mobile
devices, where it's so KISS simple that it's not funny.
Notice, I do "some" minor tweaks in the system registry (e.g., I make
extensive use of the Start Run menu using the "App Paths" key...
o What Windwos freeware adds powerful "phone Susan" & "vipw" commands?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/A3-8gDntX0w/Sai1shLfBwAJ>
But those are minor details, as running *.reg files to populate the
registry are just another concept of using "apps" (only these apps are
registry files).
Notice the philosophical concepts I use are KISS simple, in that there is
never a need to "restore" the registry (been there, done that).
Notice also that there is NEVER a need for what I consider an idiotic
"Macrium Reflect style" approach that lots of people (particularly on Apple
mobile products) try to use on smartphones - which is to restore everything
EXACTLY as it was, even down to the SMS/MMS doo doo that nobody cares
about.
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>
Me?
I restore app doo doo that matters (all of which is in the data hierarchy).
o Nothing else matters other than what is in C:\data.
Obviously that takes planning ahead to KNOW what app doo doo matters.
o All the app doo doo that I don't care about - can go anywhere it wants
> For the software installation files I download, I do similar, but I
> don't put them on C:| drive, mine are on a different physical drive,
> when possible.
As I noted, it's a technical detail that is outside the strategy, of WHERE
exactly you put stuff - or what you name it.
I tend, for example, to use short names, such as 'pic' and 'doc', but when
I'm EXPLAINING it, I use longer more descriptive names, such as "pictures"
and "documents" (where I never use plural except in my descriptive
explanations, because the "s" adds no value).
It doesn't matter if the hierarchies are on the C or D or E or F (etc),
drive, where what matters is that you keep these two things separate:
a. App doo doo that you care about, versus
b. app doo doo that you don't care about.
BTW, on the PORTABILITY and KISS principles, I don't think I've ever heard
of a BETTER system than mine, since it's 100% portable (well, let's say 90%
given that the underlying OS is completely different) not only between
Win95 and WinXP and Win7 and Win10, but it's also portable across Android
devices and Linux devices to use the same concepts.
For example, you do the _same_ stuff on your smartphone that you do on the
desktop, where this screenshot of my smartphone shows I organize similarly.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rs3t4VV6/homescreen00.jpg>
organized KISS philosophy such that search is never needed & reinstall is
trivial.
This KISS concept works for Windows 95, WinXP, Win7, Win10, & even Android,
and especially works beautifully for those who have well organized
functional hierarchies containing literally hundreds of freeware programs,
such as I maintain over the years on all platforms.
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:47:17 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:
> Are these simply the install files for various programs, or their data?
> Just curious.
Hi Ken,
You may wish you had not answered that question, because, I, like Paul, am
purposefully helpful and, like Paul, well educated, such that I provide
details sufficient to comprehend the inherent simplicity of the genius of
KISS concepts.
Everyone organizes their kitchen utensils logically
o Why can't they organize a computer logically?
Here's a more complete answer to your question, since the purpose of Usenet
is to be a potluck where everyone shares value, even among lurkers.
Organization is a tree-like structure.
You have two kinds of "things" on a personal computer you care about.
1. Programs
2. Data
Notice you don't "care" about the "operating system", except what you care
about to interact with (e.g., the menus, or some of the special folders
like "Downloads" or "Screenshots", etc., which are "data" that you care
about.
Given you only care about two things, you only need two top-level
directories, namely
c:\apps
c:\data
Note: Anyone (not you) who stoops down enough to quibble about the name
misses the strategic point, since the actual name isn't of any importance
whatsoever, other than to be easy to type, so I use lower case, singular,
and 8 characters or fewer (due to the fact that even now, Windows doesn't
properly handle spaces sans extra work).
Having said that disclaimer, to more completely answer your question, there
are various "levels" of the answer to that question.
The simplest level requires understanding of 'how' people use "data",
where, oh, say, for an MP3 file, or a JPG file, or a MS Word document
(i.e., most "data" files), the user rarely executes the MP3 player first.
The simply doubleclick on the data file - and - at least in the Windows GUI
(as opposed to, oh, say, the Linux command line), the software knows
exactly which program to execute.
In _that_ case, notice most people "assume" you don't need to bother with
installing the software in any organized hierarchy - where I would "tend"
to agree if that were the only case that software is ever used - but it's
not.
What you call the "install files" are a highly amorphous ill organized mass
of huge classes of tools, from "suites" such as Microsoft Office to
individual tools which obey basic rules (such as Audacity or Irfanview or
VLC), to entire set of (usually big-company) tools that follow no rules
whatsoever (such as anything from Google, for example, Chrome or Epic
variants).
All these tools spread themselves willy nilly all over your kitchen, when,
in fact, they all belong in the same pantry (e.g., c:\apps}, which is why
you'll see tutorials from me on corralling that mess such as:
o Tutorial: How to install the free Brave privacy-based tor-enabled web
browser where YOU want it to install (and how to save a full offline
installer in the process)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/bog50yqc_As/igWDXCO4AwAJ>
That tutorial brings up three good points, that aren't obvious to the hoi
polloi, which is that when you install something, you need to be cognizant
of the organization structure of three things (all of which, by the way,
are EXACTLY the same on an organized system but a royal mess elsewhere).
1. Where do you store the full offline installer
2. Where do you install the actual software
3. Where do you find the software in your cascade menu
(We'll skip the fourth item, the browser 'data', for a moment.)
For something such as that "brave" browser, the answer is simple on a well
organized system - but the answer is a horrible atrocious amazingly
disorganized mess on "most" people's systems.
On an organized system, the answer is obvious for _all_ the systems
where the answer is the same for decades.
1. c:\installers\browsers\brave\full_offline_brave_installer.msi
2. c:\apps\browsers\brave\brave.exe
3. Start > menu > browsers > brave > brave.lnk
(We'll now get to the concept of the "browser data", for a moment.)
There is only one thing left, which we can refer to as:
a. Browser doo doo you care about, and,
b. Browser doo do you do not care about.
For me, I long ago gave up on browser doo doo overall, so there is zero
browser doo do that I care about - but many people use "bookmarks", for
example, and many people have "js files" that do their setup, and many
people have saved logins & passwords, for example.
Me?
I use a _different_ browser for each web page concept, so, for example, one
and only one browser does Google searches. One and only one browser logs
into social account 1. One and only one browser logs into social account 2,
etc., where panopticlick concepts are utilized as are browser hardening.
But for most people, they use the same browser for everything, so for the
browser doo do that they care about, they have two choices:
a. Leave the browser doo do they care about in the browser default location
b. Set the settings to put browser doo doo they care about in "data".
This concept of doo doo you care about versus doo doo you don't care about
applies to all applications, whether a browser or an image editor or a
Microsoft Office editor. They're all just apps. (works the same on mobile
devices too, but the last time I brought in mobile devices on this thread,
I ended up having to deal with the trolls - so let's ignore I said that).
Given all apps are the same, in that they have
a. doo doo you care about, and,
b. doo doo you don't care about...
For the app doo doo that I care about, I set the app to store them in the
"data" hierarchy (such as where I'd put MS word documents or browser
bookmarks, if I cared about them), and for the app doo doo that I don't
care about (e.g., Irfanview ini settings), I leave them wherever the app
wants to put them by default.
It's all really simple, in that an app has only four things:
1. It has a full offline installer (which I save for obvious reasons)
2. It gets put in an installation location (organized by functionality)
3. It has a cascade accordion-style WinXP style menu (same hierarchy)
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MbGhYf3/winxpmenu05.jpg>
4. And, it has doo doo you care about - which goes in the data hierarchy
Everyone organizes their kitchen utensils logically
o Why can't they organize a computer logically?
> Personally, I would put them inside the \Users| folder, to protect them
> from System Restore. True, you can modify what System Restore affects,
> but now you are getting away from the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)
> principle. The KISS principle is far more valuable to the non-expert.
I doubt there is a SIMPLER less complex less foolproof "system restore"
than what I use, although you could argue the finer points of how "my"
system restore is different from your system restore.
My system restore is so KISS that you'll actually guffaw when you hear how
simple it is ... because it doesn't get any simpler.
When I want to "back up" my system:
a. I back up my data hierarchy
b. That's it. There is no other doo doo that I care about.
When I want to "restore" my system:
b. I copy back the data hierarchy
c. And then I re-install all the apps
That's it.
I can re-image the system quickly, as I do all the time also on the mobile
devices, where it's so KISS simple that it's not funny.
Notice, I do "some" minor tweaks in the system registry (e.g., I make
extensive use of the Start Run menu using the "App Paths" key...
o What Windwos freeware adds powerful "phone Susan" & "vipw" commands?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/A3-8gDntX0w/Sai1shLfBwAJ>
But those are minor details, as running *.reg files to populate the
registry are just another concept of using "apps" (only these apps are
registry files).
Notice the philosophical concepts I use are KISS simple, in that there is
never a need to "restore" the registry (been there, done that).
Notice also that there is NEVER a need for what I consider an idiotic
"Macrium Reflect style" approach that lots of people (particularly on Apple
mobile products) try to use on smartphones - which is to restore everything
EXACTLY as it was, even down to the SMS/MMS doo doo that nobody cares
about.
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>
Me?
I restore app doo doo that matters (all of which is in the data hierarchy).
o Nothing else matters other than what is in C:\data.
Obviously that takes planning ahead to KNOW what app doo doo matters.
o All the app doo doo that I don't care about - can go anywhere it wants
> For the software installation files I download, I do similar, but I
> don't put them on C:| drive, mine are on a different physical drive,
> when possible.
As I noted, it's a technical detail that is outside the strategy, of WHERE
exactly you put stuff - or what you name it.
I tend, for example, to use short names, such as 'pic' and 'doc', but when
I'm EXPLAINING it, I use longer more descriptive names, such as "pictures"
and "documents" (where I never use plural except in my descriptive
explanations, because the "s" adds no value).
It doesn't matter if the hierarchies are on the C or D or E or F (etc),
drive, where what matters is that you keep these two things separate:
a. App doo doo that you care about, versus
b. app doo doo that you don't care about.
BTW, on the PORTABILITY and KISS principles, I don't think I've ever heard
of a BETTER system than mine, since it's 100% portable (well, let's say 90%
given that the underlying OS is completely different) not only between
Win95 and WinXP and Win7 and Win10, but it's also portable across Android
devices and Linux devices to use the same concepts.
For example, you do the _same_ stuff on your smartphone that you do on the
desktop, where this screenshot of my smartphone shows I organize similarly.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rs3t4VV6/homescreen00.jpg>
Arlen Holder
Apr 30, 2020, 2:35:01 PM4/30/20
to
In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen....@holder.edu> wrote :
UPDATE:
In response to what Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote :
> A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
> isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
> effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
> broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
> a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
> needs (e.g. news and food shopping).
>
> This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
> get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
> as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
> the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.
>
> Any suggestions gratefully received.
For this question...
o Simple backup option non-techy person
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/Ql5qvXi7/simple-backup-option-non-techy-person>
I saw this last night and hesitated to answer because
(a) there is no easy solution for non-technical people
(b) everything depends on everything else anyway
Plus, "my" solution is only for the technically savvy, IMHO:
o *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows*
*in a well organized KISS philosophy such that*
*search is never needed & reinstall is trivial*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8/5MfQi5wMCQAJ>
As noted by many, there are plenty of freeware solutions.
Yet... most non-technical people, essentially, want a HDD "dd" of sorts.
For me... on a single-user system...
a. I plan my backups a decade or more prior to the backup
b. Which means I break the backup into two components
1. Data I care about
2. Programs I care about
Nothing else matters.
From day one, I put all data I care about where it belongs.
From day one, I put all program installers where they belong.
When it comes time to back up, all I back up are two directories:
C:\data\{my hierarchy of data I care about}
C:\software\{my hierarchy of installers I care about}
Nothing else matters.
o Everything else can easily be replaced by a technical user.
Notice that some of the answers are essentially that if we count the
"Windows' built-in File History backup" that Frank Slootweg & mechanic
spoke about.
My only problem with any pre-defined folder in Windows (or in any operating
system) is they get polluted like you can't believe.
That's why, for example, I never use any pre-defined folder in Windows,
and, the ones that you can't avoid, I simply right click on them to move
them to where they belong if they will contain, usually momentarily,
something I care about.
a. For example, desktop, screenshots & downloads are moved into C:\data.
b. Yet 3D Objects, Music, and Saved Games, for example, are ignored.
When it comes time to re-install the operating system, as I did recently, I
simply re-install the software hierarchy, one by one.
And then I copy back the data hierarchy.
o I keep the "menu" in the data hierarchy, so it doesn't change in decades
I admit there are a few hundred tweaks, e.g., adding right-click context
menus to "open cmd window here" or setting the default for extensionless
files to open in vim, or disabling the window resizing upon hitting the
edges of the screen, or editing more than 15 files at once, etc..
Maybe a "system restore" might solve that but I have never really found
system restores to be of much value, where, lately, I don't even use an
add-on AV program - I don't know why I don't get viruses - maybe I do and I
don't know it - but I just don't. (famous last words, perhaps)
In short, only "some" of what I suggest can the lady use.
Probably the most prescient advice I can give her, and everyone, is to plan
your backup a decade before you buy the computer by having a plan to store
at least your data, if not your installers, in a place _outside_ the
(unfortunately polluted) Windows hierarch.
There's _more_ to my plan, but that's the summary.
a. Put data you care about where it belongs
b. Save all your program installers in a safe place
--
Together we have great solutions to offer for Usenet's public potluck.
In response to what Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote :
> A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
> isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
> effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
> broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
> a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
> needs (e.g. news and food shopping).
>
> This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
> get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
> as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
> the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.
>
> Any suggestions gratefully received.
For this question...
o Simple backup option non-techy person
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/Ql5qvXi7/simple-backup-option-non-techy-person>
I saw this last night and hesitated to answer because
(a) there is no easy solution for non-technical people
(b) everything depends on everything else anyway
Plus, "my" solution is only for the technically savvy, IMHO:
o *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows*
*in a well organized KISS philosophy such that*
*search is never needed & reinstall is trivial*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8/5MfQi5wMCQAJ>
As noted by many, there are plenty of freeware solutions.
Yet... most non-technical people, essentially, want a HDD "dd" of sorts.
For me... on a single-user system...
a. I plan my backups a decade or more prior to the backup
b. Which means I break the backup into two components
1. Data I care about
2. Programs I care about
Nothing else matters.
From day one, I put all data I care about where it belongs.
From day one, I put all program installers where they belong.
When it comes time to back up, all I back up are two directories:
C:\data\{my hierarchy of data I care about}
C:\software\{my hierarchy of installers I care about}
Nothing else matters.
o Everything else can easily be replaced by a technical user.
Notice that some of the answers are essentially that if we count the
"Windows' built-in File History backup" that Frank Slootweg & mechanic
spoke about.
My only problem with any pre-defined folder in Windows (or in any operating
system) is they get polluted like you can't believe.
That's why, for example, I never use any pre-defined folder in Windows,
and, the ones that you can't avoid, I simply right click on them to move
them to where they belong if they will contain, usually momentarily,
something I care about.
a. For example, desktop, screenshots & downloads are moved into C:\data.
b. Yet 3D Objects, Music, and Saved Games, for example, are ignored.
When it comes time to re-install the operating system, as I did recently, I
simply re-install the software hierarchy, one by one.
And then I copy back the data hierarchy.
o I keep the "menu" in the data hierarchy, so it doesn't change in decades
I admit there are a few hundred tweaks, e.g., adding right-click context
menus to "open cmd window here" or setting the default for extensionless
files to open in vim, or disabling the window resizing upon hitting the
edges of the screen, or editing more than 15 files at once, etc..
Maybe a "system restore" might solve that but I have never really found
system restores to be of much value, where, lately, I don't even use an
add-on AV program - I don't know why I don't get viruses - maybe I do and I
don't know it - but I just don't. (famous last words, perhaps)
In short, only "some" of what I suggest can the lady use.
Probably the most prescient advice I can give her, and everyone, is to plan
your backup a decade before you buy the computer by having a plan to store
at least your data, if not your installers, in a place _outside_ the
(unfortunately polluted) Windows hierarch.
There's _more_ to my plan, but that's the summary.
a. Put data you care about where it belongs
b. Save all your program installers in a safe place
--
Together we have great solutions to offer for Usenet's public potluck.
Arlen Holder
May 17, 2020, 11:11:04 PM5/17/20
to
On 17 May 2020 18:59:25 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/17/2020 4:24 AM, sms wrote:
>>
>>> Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
>>> the updates then starts working again.
>>
>> My wife runs Classic Shell, and it has *never* screwed up. It's fine.
>
> [N.B. AFAICT, we're actually talking about Classic Start Menu, not
> Classic Shell, but let's not nitpick.]
>
> Same here. Anyway, it's a non-issue because Classic Shell is replaced
> by Open-Shell and that *is* still being maintained:
>
> 'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu'
> <https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu>
> "Reborn of Classic Shell.
> ...
> Originally Classic Shell by Ivo Beltchev"
> [Last fix 3 months ago.]
>
> The old Classic Shell page even points to the replacement, so it's
> rather strange that this "not being updated" urban legend continues:
>
> 'passionate-coder / Classic-Start'
> <https://github.com/passionate-coder/Classic-Start>
> "Renamed to NeoClassic-UI then renamed to Open-Shell -
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu"
>
> And even the links in the ('Settings' and 'Help' of the) 'obsolete'
> Classic Shell software *itself* point to the relacement, because they
> point to <http://www.classicshell.net> which is still running and which
> in turn points to the 'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu' website.
>
> I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!
>
> [...]
Re: *USB-C cables*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/yf48-gkzQnU/x8FyBb2IBwAJ>
What irks me about unnecessary software (some people even _pay_ for such
things!), is how bamboozled some people seem to be about even simple
obvious things like the fact that WinXP style menus never left Windows...
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>
Hence, I feel kind of sorry for those who use needless kludges such as the
Classic Start Menu, because they are apparently fooled into thinking that
Windows doesn't _already_ have the WinXP cascade accordion menu, native.
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>
What those people don't "seem" to know is that if all you want is the WinXP
style accordion cascade menu, then that's _already_ native in Windows 10.
The WinXP style menu _never left_ Windows; it just became slightly hidden:
o WinXP: <http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/5364242winxp_menu_example01.jpg>
o Win10: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2635699winxp_menus_on_win10.jpg>
The sad thing is that these people only _thought_ it left Windows...
o It was always there... and still is.
> I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!
By way of similar example, TrueCrypt freeware failed in a way that
Veracrypt freeware simply took over where TrueCrypt left off, even down to
using most of the commands.
--
WinXP menus, IMHO, never left Windows & therefore are still there in Win10.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/yf48-gkzQnU/FRlws9mkAQAJ>
> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/17/2020 4:24 AM, sms wrote:
>>
>>> Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
>>> the updates then starts working again.
>>
>> My wife runs Classic Shell, and it has *never* screwed up. It's fine.
>
> [N.B. AFAICT, we're actually talking about Classic Start Menu, not
> Classic Shell, but let's not nitpick.]
>
> Same here. Anyway, it's a non-issue because Classic Shell is replaced
> by Open-Shell and that *is* still being maintained:
>
> 'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu'
> <https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu>
> "Reborn of Classic Shell.
> ...
> Originally Classic Shell by Ivo Beltchev"
> [Last fix 3 months ago.]
>
> The old Classic Shell page even points to the replacement, so it's
> rather strange that this "not being updated" urban legend continues:
>
> 'passionate-coder / Classic-Start'
> <https://github.com/passionate-coder/Classic-Start>
> "Renamed to NeoClassic-UI then renamed to Open-Shell -
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu"
>
> And even the links in the ('Settings' and 'Help' of the) 'obsolete'
> Classic Shell software *itself* point to the relacement, because they
> point to <http://www.classicshell.net> which is still running and which
> in turn points to the 'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu' website.
>
> I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!
>
> [...]
Re: *USB-C cables*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/yf48-gkzQnU/x8FyBb2IBwAJ>
What irks me about unnecessary software (some people even _pay_ for such
things!), is how bamboozled some people seem to be about even simple
obvious things like the fact that WinXP style menus never left Windows...
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>
Hence, I feel kind of sorry for those who use needless kludges such as the
Classic Start Menu, because they are apparently fooled into thinking that
Windows doesn't _already_ have the WinXP cascade accordion menu, native.
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>
What those people don't "seem" to know is that if all you want is the WinXP
style accordion cascade menu, then that's _already_ native in Windows 10.
The WinXP style menu _never left_ Windows; it just became slightly hidden:
o WinXP: <http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/5364242winxp_menu_example01.jpg>
o Win10: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2635699winxp_menus_on_win10.jpg>
The sad thing is that these people only _thought_ it left Windows...
o It was always there... and still is.
> I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!
By way of similar example, TrueCrypt freeware failed in a way that
Veracrypt freeware simply took over where TrueCrypt left off, even down to
using most of the commands.
--
WinXP menus, IMHO, never left Windows & therefore are still there in Win10.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/yf48-gkzQnU/FRlws9mkAQAJ>
Arlen Holder
Jun 7, 2020, 4:34:43 PM6/7/20
to
For the permanent Usenet record, if you "do" ever need to search, this
thread may help in that it covers how to instantly search for "everything".
. Windows file name & content search freeware
that works better than the native Windows search tools
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/V3etp1R3kpk>
Here's just a related post, to provide details on what you'll learn there.
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:05:27 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> (Any reason why this was going to XP and 10, but not 7, 'groups?)
Hi J.P. Gilliver, aka John,
I'm always thinking _years_ in advance, whenever I post a new thread here.
It's best for you to assume nothing I do on Usenet is by happenstance...
. Particularly when I spend hours on the original research for the thread
Here's fundamentally my logic on the three newsgroups which were chosen:
a. The research pertains to _freeware_ that works on Windows computers
b. It pertains to _all_ common Windows' versions though, as you noted
c. Yet, I try to limit the Newsgroups list to _3_ based on Usenet etiquette
In addition, I do far-reaching forward-thinking things, that almost nobody
does, and for which the trolls hate me, which, I understand, but I do these
forward-thinking things for a good re-use and general-use purpose
. I strive to make at least one newsgroup in the deja-google archives
Notice that knocks out this newsgroup list, since none are deja-googled!
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt.comp.os.windows-10> <== this archive sucks
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-8> <== this archive sucks
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt.windows7.general> <== this archive sucks
etc.
But, luckily, these related newsgroups _are_ well deja-googled:
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware <== this archive is great!
. <http://tinyurl.com/microsoft-public-windowsxp-gen> (30-char limit)
BTW, I should know, as I'm the one who _created_ these tinyurls.
. I do that so we _all_ benefit from every action that we each take.
What the score of well-known *worthless pieces of shit like Ken Blake*
hate, are these facts that I post for the permanent Usenet record, and not
for the whim of the day... which I don't deny them.
In addition, if I'm going to spend a lot of energy on a thread, as I did
here, I'm going to make the subject line keyword rich, and I'm going to
_not_ post it _just_ to the non-deja-googled newsgroups, as it's
essentially a waste (long term) to post anything to the Windows 10 ng alone
(sadly so).
Of course, there are _other_ "permanent" archives, but they also suck:
. <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.windows7.general.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.comp.freeware.narkive.com> <== sucks
etc.
> For just filename searches: Everything. Why? Its speed amazes me; nearly
> always finds the file before I've finished typing. And I can type two
> parts of the filename separated by spaces.
Ah! this is GREAT information, as we all know that it's hard to trust
so-called "reviews" as many are shills, copies, and, even when they're
good, they're often outdated or they don't answer the specific question.
Thank you for explaining why you enjoy "Everything" (which is the speed!).
Now we get to _why_ "Everything" was on top of everything... :)
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 13, saying:
<https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-best-free-search-tools-windows-10/>
"Everything is consistently lauded as one of the fastest search tools
for Windows. Using it is as simple as it gets: install it, open the
program, and give it a bit to index your entire system.
(It can index a fresh Windows install in under a minute.)
Once that's done, all you have to do is type anything into the text
field and you will get instantaneous results as you type.
And as long as you allow Everything to sit in the background
and monitor system changes, it will always be instantaneous.
Best of all, it's lightweight and takes up less than 5MB of RAM
and 1MB of disk space. This is the absolute best tool to use for
old and slow computers."
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 5, saying:
<https://www.maketecheasier.com/windows-10-search-tools-super-charge-searches/>
"Its name derives from the fact that it displays every file and folder
on your PC - hence, Everything. So what is Everything like to use?
*Everything can be installed and used on any Windows machine from XP*
to 10. When you first boot it, it goes through your files and folders
and indexes them. A fresh install of Windows 10 (about 70,000 files)
will take about 1 second to index. 1,000,000 files will take about
1 minute. Once done, you can then use Everything to search all your
files and folders. The main boon of Everything over Window's own search
is that it works instantaneously; the files that match your search are
shown the moment you type each letter. This means less time waiting for
the search function to trawl through your files and folders and more
time getting what you want. It's also incredibly light, with an index of
one million files taking up only 50MB of RAM & 15MB of Hard Drive space"
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 2 of 8, saying:
<https://www.lifewire.com/11-free-file-search-tools-1356644>
"Everything is another free file search tool for Windows with a super
clean program interface that supports tons of awesome features.
You can use Everything to search from the Windows right-click context
menu and find files across several NTFS drives at once, both internal
and external ones.
As you begin searching for files, the results show up instantly
there's no need to wait or press Enter. Newly added or modified files
are added to Everything in real time, so there's no need to manually
re-index the database. According to the Everything website,
it takes one second to index around a million files.
There's a toggle in Everything's settings you can use to exclude any
custom, system, or hidden file and folder from search results to
narrow down what you're looking for.
Everything also includes an HTTP and FTP server so you can access
the files of networked computers that also have the program installed.
It would seem the features would stop here, but Everything is even
free for commercial use, includes a portable download option,
and lets you save searches as bookmarks for easy recall."
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 13, saying:
<https://thegeekpage.com/13-best-desktop-search-tools-for-windows/>
"Everything is one of the leading desktop search tools that pulls up
files and folders by name, instantly. It comes with a compact
installation file making it easy to install. It sports a neat and
straightforward user interface. The best part is, it indexes files
quickly and even offers quick search. This tool takes up minimal
resources to find the files you are looking for. While it helps you
share files with others effortlessly, it also offers real-time updates."
> For content search: Agent Ransack. Why? Well, I rarely _want_ to do a
> content search, and that seemed to be the most recommended/used here
> when I was thinking of installing one, and it seems to work well enough
> (both speed of searching and search facilities) that I don't feel the
> need to look further, for the little I need of this sort of search. (I
> don't expect a content search to be fast, by its nature; AR seems fast
> enough.)
Thank you for that, third so far, commendation for "agent ransack", which,
as I noted, only showed up once in four separate reviews that had a lot of
overlap otherwise.
I _trust_ your opinion, and that of Paul, so I'm sure Agent Ransack is a
keeper, where, personally, I've downloaded them all but I won't ever have
time to test them all (particularly given I don't do searches, in general,
since my philosophy is to organize the system for files you care about):
. *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows* in a well organized
> Why are you asking - what is your actual _requirement_? (Will it morph?)
I stated why in the OP, but I'll flesh it out as you're an adult, so it's
not like the worthless pieces of shit like Alan Baker asking why I ask.
As you're aware by now, my philosophy is to never "need" a search, simply
due to the fact I plan years ahead by storing files on all files I care
about from Windows XP to Windows 10 in the _same_ location, such that,
literally, even my Windows XP cascade Start menu works fine on Windows 10.
Each time I set up a new Windows 10, I simply copy over the menu and it
just works, out of the box, first time, simply because of that well-planned
consistency in storing things I care about in the same location on all
systems.
This even extends to my neighbor's computer, which, for example, I just set
up yesterday, using the _same_ hierarchy that I use on all my systems, and
those of my kids, and grandkids, etc. (M$ should have hired me to do their
GUI before they screwed it up!).
. Is there freeware extent to convert Win10S to Win10H
WITHOUT enabling the Win10S laptop Wi-Fi?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/MwzjUei-0Oo>
Where you know I don't bullshit, so I can prove, with pictures, what I say:
. <https://i.postimg.cc/TwNc0z7H/smode01.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/tCXyVzhB/smode02.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/G2wn3PLJ/smode03.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/T2cvGWZg/smode04.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/jSmGv670/smode05.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/50MDWxgs/smode06.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/WzNKtXQr/smode07.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/cCggQb09/smode08.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/2jbPtNjH/smode09.jpg>
In summary, since you're an adult and since you're generally purposefully
helpful, note that almost everything I do on Usenet is forward thinking,
where my threads (and/or posts) are _intended_ to be useful years ahead,
and hence even their subject lines are intended to be keyword-rich to be
found in future search engines.
In this case, what happened was people recommended two tools, one of which
showed up highly in all the reviews I found, while the other barely made
the list - which I found inconsistently interesting enough to run a survey.
> (Will it morph?)
Rest assured, if I find something interesting in this search, such as the
huge inconsistency between a WSL and Windows search for *.dll on the same
system that Paul piqued my interest upon, then it will morph. :)
But, until/unless it morphs, the purpose is exactly as stated in the OP.
. *The end result of this thread should be 1 or 2 "keeper" search tools!*
For that, we _need_ user input, which I appreciate from you & Paul so far.
--
Note worthless Apple & Windows trolls follow me around like a dog sniffing
the asscrack of something they like, so if you see me responding to the
Apple worthless pieces of shit like Alan Baker or the Windows worthless
piece of shit Ken Blake (and, likely some worthless pieces of shit from the
freeware or WinXP newsgroups), you'll note how differently I respond to
those worthless pieces of shit, than to a purposefully helpful adult.
thread may help in that it covers how to instantly search for "everything".
. Windows file name & content search freeware
that works better than the native Windows search tools
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/V3etp1R3kpk>
Here's just a related post, to provide details on what you'll learn there.
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:05:27 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> (Any reason why this was going to XP and 10, but not 7, 'groups?)
Hi J.P. Gilliver, aka John,
I'm always thinking _years_ in advance, whenever I post a new thread here.
It's best for you to assume nothing I do on Usenet is by happenstance...
. Particularly when I spend hours on the original research for the thread
Here's fundamentally my logic on the three newsgroups which were chosen:
a. The research pertains to _freeware_ that works on Windows computers
b. It pertains to _all_ common Windows' versions though, as you noted
c. Yet, I try to limit the Newsgroups list to _3_ based on Usenet etiquette
In addition, I do far-reaching forward-thinking things, that almost nobody
does, and for which the trolls hate me, which, I understand, but I do these
forward-thinking things for a good re-use and general-use purpose
. I strive to make at least one newsgroup in the deja-google archives
Notice that knocks out this newsgroup list, since none are deja-googled!
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt.comp.os.windows-10> <== this archive sucks
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-8> <== this archive sucks
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt.windows7.general> <== this archive sucks
etc.
But, luckily, these related newsgroups _are_ well deja-googled:
. <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware <== this archive is great!
. <http://tinyurl.com/microsoft-public-windowsxp-gen> (30-char limit)
BTW, I should know, as I'm the one who _created_ these tinyurls.
. I do that so we _all_ benefit from every action that we each take.
What the score of well-known *worthless pieces of shit like Ken Blake*
hate, are these facts that I post for the permanent Usenet record, and not
for the whim of the day... which I don't deny them.
In addition, if I'm going to spend a lot of energy on a thread, as I did
here, I'm going to make the subject line keyword rich, and I'm going to
_not_ post it _just_ to the non-deja-googled newsgroups, as it's
essentially a waste (long term) to post anything to the Windows 10 ng alone
(sadly so).
Of course, there are _other_ "permanent" archives, but they also suck:
. <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.windows7.general.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.narkive.com> <== sucks
. <http://alt.comp.freeware.narkive.com> <== sucks
etc.
> For just filename searches: Everything. Why? Its speed amazes me; nearly
> always finds the file before I've finished typing. And I can type two
> parts of the filename separated by spaces.
Ah! this is GREAT information, as we all know that it's hard to trust
so-called "reviews" as many are shills, copies, and, even when they're
good, they're often outdated or they don't answer the specific question.
Thank you for explaining why you enjoy "Everything" (which is the speed!).
Now we get to _why_ "Everything" was on top of everything... :)
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 13, saying:
<https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-best-free-search-tools-windows-10/>
"Everything is consistently lauded as one of the fastest search tools
for Windows. Using it is as simple as it gets: install it, open the
program, and give it a bit to index your entire system.
(It can index a fresh Windows install in under a minute.)
Once that's done, all you have to do is type anything into the text
field and you will get instantaneous results as you type.
And as long as you allow Everything to sit in the background
and monitor system changes, it will always be instantaneous.
Best of all, it's lightweight and takes up less than 5MB of RAM
and 1MB of disk space. This is the absolute best tool to use for
old and slow computers."
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 5, saying:
<https://www.maketecheasier.com/windows-10-search-tools-super-charge-searches/>
"Its name derives from the fact that it displays every file and folder
on your PC - hence, Everything. So what is Everything like to use?
*Everything can be installed and used on any Windows machine from XP*
to 10. When you first boot it, it goes through your files and folders
and indexes them. A fresh install of Windows 10 (about 70,000 files)
will take about 1 second to index. 1,000,000 files will take about
1 minute. Once done, you can then use Everything to search all your
files and folders. The main boon of Everything over Window's own search
is that it works instantaneously; the files that match your search are
shown the moment you type each letter. This means less time waiting for
the search function to trawl through your files and folders and more
time getting what you want. It's also incredibly light, with an index of
one million files taking up only 50MB of RAM & 15MB of Hard Drive space"
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 2 of 8, saying:
<https://www.lifewire.com/11-free-file-search-tools-1356644>
"Everything is another free file search tool for Windows with a super
clean program interface that supports tons of awesome features.
You can use Everything to search from the Windows right-click context
menu and find files across several NTFS drives at once, both internal
and external ones.
As you begin searching for files, the results show up instantly
there's no need to wait or press Enter. Newly added or modified files
are added to Everything in real time, so there's no need to manually
re-index the database. According to the Everything website,
it takes one second to index around a million files.
There's a toggle in Everything's settings you can use to exclude any
custom, system, or hidden file and folder from search results to
narrow down what you're looking for.
Everything also includes an HTTP and FTP server so you can access
the files of networked computers that also have the program installed.
It would seem the features would stop here, but Everything is even
free for commercial use, includes a portable download option,
and lets you save searches as bookmarks for easy recall."
. This cite ranked "Everything" as number 1 of 13, saying:
<https://thegeekpage.com/13-best-desktop-search-tools-for-windows/>
"Everything is one of the leading desktop search tools that pulls up
files and folders by name, instantly. It comes with a compact
installation file making it easy to install. It sports a neat and
straightforward user interface. The best part is, it indexes files
quickly and even offers quick search. This tool takes up minimal
resources to find the files you are looking for. While it helps you
share files with others effortlessly, it also offers real-time updates."
> For content search: Agent Ransack. Why? Well, I rarely _want_ to do a
> content search, and that seemed to be the most recommended/used here
> when I was thinking of installing one, and it seems to work well enough
> (both speed of searching and search facilities) that I don't feel the
> need to look further, for the little I need of this sort of search. (I
> don't expect a content search to be fast, by its nature; AR seems fast
> enough.)
Thank you for that, third so far, commendation for "agent ransack", which,
as I noted, only showed up once in four separate reviews that had a lot of
overlap otherwise.
I _trust_ your opinion, and that of Paul, so I'm sure Agent Ransack is a
keeper, where, personally, I've downloaded them all but I won't ever have
time to test them all (particularly given I don't do searches, in general,
since my philosophy is to organize the system for files you care about):
. *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows* in a well organized
KISS philosophy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8>
> Why are you asking - what is your actual _requirement_? (Will it morph?)
I stated why in the OP, but I'll flesh it out as you're an adult, so it's
not like the worthless pieces of shit like Alan Baker asking why I ask.
As you're aware by now, my philosophy is to never "need" a search, simply
due to the fact I plan years ahead by storing files on all files I care
about from Windows XP to Windows 10 in the _same_ location, such that,
literally, even my Windows XP cascade Start menu works fine on Windows 10.
Each time I set up a new Windows 10, I simply copy over the menu and it
just works, out of the box, first time, simply because of that well-planned
consistency in storing things I care about in the same location on all
systems.
This even extends to my neighbor's computer, which, for example, I just set
up yesterday, using the _same_ hierarchy that I use on all my systems, and
those of my kids, and grandkids, etc. (M$ should have hired me to do their
GUI before they screwed it up!).
. Is there freeware extent to convert Win10S to Win10H
WITHOUT enabling the Win10S laptop Wi-Fi?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/MwzjUei-0Oo>
Where you know I don't bullshit, so I can prove, with pictures, what I say:
. <https://i.postimg.cc/TwNc0z7H/smode01.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/tCXyVzhB/smode02.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/G2wn3PLJ/smode03.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/T2cvGWZg/smode04.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/jSmGv670/smode05.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/50MDWxgs/smode06.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/WzNKtXQr/smode07.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/cCggQb09/smode08.jpg>
. <https://i.postimg.cc/2jbPtNjH/smode09.jpg>
In summary, since you're an adult and since you're generally purposefully
helpful, note that almost everything I do on Usenet is forward thinking,
where my threads (and/or posts) are _intended_ to be useful years ahead,
and hence even their subject lines are intended to be keyword-rich to be
found in future search engines.
In this case, what happened was people recommended two tools, one of which
showed up highly in all the reviews I found, while the other barely made
the list - which I found inconsistently interesting enough to run a survey.
> (Will it morph?)
Rest assured, if I find something interesting in this search, such as the
huge inconsistency between a WSL and Windows search for *.dll on the same
system that Paul piqued my interest upon, then it will morph. :)
But, until/unless it morphs, the purpose is exactly as stated in the OP.
. *The end result of this thread should be 1 or 2 "keeper" search tools!*
For that, we _need_ user input, which I appreciate from you & Paul so far.
--
Note worthless Apple & Windows trolls follow me around like a dog sniffing
the asscrack of something they like, so if you see me responding to the
Apple worthless pieces of shit like Alan Baker or the Windows worthless
piece of shit Ken Blake (and, likely some worthless pieces of shit from the
freeware or WinXP newsgroups), you'll note how differently I respond to
those worthless pieces of shit, than to a purposefully helpful adult.
Arlen Holder
Jun 8, 2020, 11:57:24 AM6/8/20
to
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:32:44 +0100, Apd wrote:
> I don't post much in the Win10 group because I don't use Win10. Win2k
> is good enough for my computing needs and rock solid. Failing that, I
> use XP or Win7. I like to keep an eye on Microsoft's latest botch-up
> of the NT platform in case I decide to use it one day which seems
> unlikely so far.
Hi Apd,
I could tell you were an adult, where what that means is that a logical &
reasonable conversation can occur which contains nuances of detail, and
natural differences of opinion or use models.
To that end, thanks for patiently explaining your situation, as I too have
old OS's lying about, e.g., I still have Vista and Windows 7 (on my hard
drives and in Grub menus galore!) and, there's even an old WinXP 500MB RAM
Dell laptop masquerading as a desktop simply because it's what I had
connected to the scanner since birth.
That old WinXP laptop came in handy, as it proved I could easily copy the
EXACT accordion-style cascaded WinXP start menu over from WinXP to Windows
10 and it WORKED just fine (with minor corrections due to changes over
time).
Notice that I've had the same menu structure for ages, simply because we
all do the _same_ things with our computers and phones, where we "browse"
and we "edit", such that my hierarchy has remained almost the same for
decades on _all_ my computers (mobile devices, desktops, or laptops).
. *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosophy*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8>
While I use even shorter words, and I never use plurals, and I stick with
lower-case, underscored if necessary, 8-character if possible names, here's
a simplified description of, oh, say, just my "editor" hierarchy:
<https://i.postimg.cc/wMpGKBFF/winsearch05.jpg>
1. Here's where I _save_ my downloaded freeware editor installers:
C:\software\editors\{see list below}
2. Here's where I _install_ those editors, on each machine in turn:
C:\apps\editors\{see list below}
3. Here's the _menu_ hierarchy (aka toolbar) pinned to the task menu:
taskbar > menu > editors > {see list below}
etc.
And here's a shortened list of the "editors" in that hierarchy:
(bearing in mind an "editor" is treated the same as a "viewer")
c:\> cd editors
c:\> dir /b
... android
... audio
... cad
... calendar
... codec
... convert
... downloader
... epub
... hex
... icon
... passwd
... pic
... pspdf
... screenrec
... snapshot
... suite
... txt
... vector
... vid
... exif
... watermark
As the a.c.f folks are well aware, there are _many_ ways to organize apps.
o For example, here's just the first subdirectory in that list above
<https://i.postimg.cc/DfrNrqyN/winsearch06.jpg>
c:\> cd editors\android
c:\> dir /b
... adb
... app
... cpu
... emu
... gra
... how
... ide
... jre
... mtp
... sdk
... sql
... vid
I do similarly functionality based orgs for Android, as previously posted:
<https://i.postimg.cc/66nkNWg5/winsearch04.jpg>
My main point is that we all do the same things on our computers
. Where one of those things, is search....
To that end, these are my current freeware search apps for testing out:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zXpPM8hS/winsearch07.jpg>
c:\> cd database\search
c:\> dir /b
... agentransack
... astrogrep
... auslogics
... copernic
... docfetcher
... everything
... exselo
... filesearchex
... fileseek
... googledesktop
... grepwin
... jetsearch
... lansearchpro
... launchy
... listary
... locate32
... lookeen
... malich
... puggle
... quicksearch
... registryfinder
... searchmyfiles
... ultrasearch
Any help adults can purposefully helpfully provide, is always welcome.
o I trust adults on Usenet more than I trust many so-called reviews.
--
The extremly high cost of freeware is in effort needed to find the best!
> I don't post much in the Win10 group because I don't use Win10. Win2k
> is good enough for my computing needs and rock solid. Failing that, I
> use XP or Win7. I like to keep an eye on Microsoft's latest botch-up
> of the NT platform in case I decide to use it one day which seems
> unlikely so far.
Hi Apd,
I could tell you were an adult, where what that means is that a logical &
reasonable conversation can occur which contains nuances of detail, and
natural differences of opinion or use models.
To that end, thanks for patiently explaining your situation, as I too have
old OS's lying about, e.g., I still have Vista and Windows 7 (on my hard
drives and in Grub menus galore!) and, there's even an old WinXP 500MB RAM
Dell laptop masquerading as a desktop simply because it's what I had
connected to the scanner since birth.
That old WinXP laptop came in handy, as it proved I could easily copy the
EXACT accordion-style cascaded WinXP start menu over from WinXP to Windows
10 and it WORKED just fine (with minor corrections due to changes over
time).
Notice that I've had the same menu structure for ages, simply because we
all do the _same_ things with our computers and phones, where we "browse"
and we "edit", such that my hierarchy has remained almost the same for
decades on _all_ my computers (mobile devices, desktops, or laptops).
. *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosophy*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8>
While I use even shorter words, and I never use plurals, and I stick with
lower-case, underscored if necessary, 8-character if possible names, here's
a simplified description of, oh, say, just my "editor" hierarchy:
<https://i.postimg.cc/wMpGKBFF/winsearch05.jpg>
1. Here's where I _save_ my downloaded freeware editor installers:
C:\software\editors\{see list below}
2. Here's where I _install_ those editors, on each machine in turn:
C:\apps\editors\{see list below}
3. Here's the _menu_ hierarchy (aka toolbar) pinned to the task menu:
taskbar > menu > editors > {see list below}
etc.
And here's a shortened list of the "editors" in that hierarchy:
(bearing in mind an "editor" is treated the same as a "viewer")
c:\> cd editors
c:\> dir /b
... android
... audio
... cad
... calendar
... codec
... convert
... downloader
... epub
... hex
... icon
... passwd
... pic
... pspdf
... screenrec
... snapshot
... suite
... txt
... vector
... vid
... exif
... watermark
As the a.c.f folks are well aware, there are _many_ ways to organize apps.
o For example, here's just the first subdirectory in that list above
<https://i.postimg.cc/DfrNrqyN/winsearch06.jpg>
c:\> cd editors\android
c:\> dir /b
... adb
... app
... cpu
... emu
... gra
... how
... ide
... jre
... mtp
... sdk
... sql
... vid
I do similarly functionality based orgs for Android, as previously posted:
<https://i.postimg.cc/66nkNWg5/winsearch04.jpg>
My main point is that we all do the same things on our computers
. Where one of those things, is search....
To that end, these are my current freeware search apps for testing out:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zXpPM8hS/winsearch07.jpg>
c:\> cd database\search
c:\> dir /b
... agentransack
... astrogrep
... auslogics
... copernic
... docfetcher
... everything
... exselo
... filesearchex
... fileseek
... googledesktop
... grepwin
... jetsearch
... lansearchpro
... launchy
... listary
... locate32
... lookeen
... malich
... puggle
... quicksearch
... registryfinder
... searchmyfiles
... ultrasearch
Any help adults can purposefully helpfully provide, is always welcome.
o I trust adults on Usenet more than I trust many so-called reviews.
--
The extremly high cost of freeware is in effort needed to find the best!
Arlen Holder
Jul 18, 2020, 5:35:37 PM7/18/20
to
UPDATE (for the benefit of all in the permanent Usenet record)
(since every post should provide value now & years to come)
Regarding related leverageable links to remember from this post today...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/NQth1-96ROw/6DrhttQaCgAJ>
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:16:00 +0100, NY wrote:
> I installed Classic Shell to give me a "proper" Start Menu.
I never understood _why_ people go to this much trouble...
o to obtain the WinXP accordion cascade menu that was always there!
o *Why does anyone bother to install Classic Shell on Windows if all
they want is the WinXP accordion-style sliding cascade Start Menu?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/classic$20start$20menu%7Csort:date/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/dTHKXIdlqcw/1YpoS4ITAQAJ>
If you understand how Windows works, you'll realize, instantly, the WinXP
accordion style menu exists & never left Windows in the first place.
It's EXACTLY the same (i.e., it's just a folder hierarchy of shortcuts).
In fact, I've copied my XP menu to Windows 10 and it works beautifully.
(Note that I maintain the same hierarchy on all machines, which is why
copying the "menu" folder from any of my machines works for all of them).
It's just a hierarchical folder pinned to the taskbar, containing
shortcuts.
--
People grasp at straws when they never had the problem in the 1st place.
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 11:33:32 +0100, NY wrote:
> I agree that there is a hierarchical folder for third-party applications
> that you install on Win 10,
Hi NY,
To continue, always, to be purposefully helpful to all adults on Usenet...
I realize this is OT, where I was mainly responding to your words, since I
am a fact-based aspy who always tries to figure out the strange reasons why
people do the strange non-factual things they do. :)
I'm well trained in organic chemistry, where, whenever I'm at the gas
station, for example, and some Honda Civic pulls up and the driver puts in
Premium, I ask them "why", and what I get back is utter nonsense (most of
it is utter bull, fed to them by gas advertisers) either about "higher
power" or "increased performance" or "cleaner engines"... which is just
impossible to gain for a stock engine in normal condition under normal use
(yet, they literally _believe_ in the imaginary belief system MARKETING fed
them to believe in).
o FAQ: Automotive Gasoline, by Bruce Hamilton
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/>
Same with people who own iPhones: I ask them while I'm waiting in line what
they like about it, and I _always_ get back almost a one-to-one parrot of
what MARKETING fed them to believe (e.g., "no malware", "frequent updates",
"security & safety", etc.), all of which is easily proven MARKETING
bulldunk.
o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU>
Same with Classic Shell (and it's variants), where every time someone
mentions it, I simply remind them, nicely, that if all they want are WinXP
cascaded accordion-style menus, they never left Windows 10 in the first
place (they never left ANY Windows version, in fact).
I do though, very much so, ORGANIZE my Windows dual monitors, so I
APPRECIATE your needs, given the capriciousness of the dual-monitor setup,
as I, myself, (together with Paul), have ascertained in the past, e.g.,
o Philosophically, how do you "organize" two monitors
(only applicable to those of you with dual monitors)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/OVaj9a326Bo>
> but I haven't found any links for Devices &
> Printers, Control Panel, etc.
Long ago I added to the Usenet tribal record, just for this purpose,
_every_ command known to Windows man already (see links below), e.g.,
this brought up my "Devices & Printers" on Win10 Pro v1909 just now:
o Win+R > Run > control printers
o Win+R > Run > ::{26EE0668-A00A-44D7-9371-BEB064C98683}\2\::{A8A91A66-3A7D-4424-8D24-04E180695C7A}
While this opens up the "device discovery", for example:
o Win+R > Run > ms-settings-connectabledevices:devicediscovery
And this brought up the "Start Menu & Taskbar manager", for example:
o Win+R > Run > devmoderunasuserconfig.msc
And, of course, this opens up the control panel:
o Win+R > Run > control
Where you can get into any specific app wizard if you have the list which
I've provided, long ago, to the Usenet permanent archives for this task,
for example...
o Win+R > Run > control admintools
o Win+R > Run > appwiz.cpl
o Win+R > Run > control.exe /name Microsoft.TaskbarandStartMenu
etc. (we documented _hundreds_ of these commands, see link below)
The point is simply that if you can use "Start Run" to get to the "Devices
& Printers", or to the "Control Panel", then you can make a shortcut to
those commands, which you can give a custom icon, and then you can then put
your custom shortcut in your "menu" folder, which is already pinned to the
taskbar, perhaps under:
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to devices_and_printers.lnk}
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to control panel.lnk}
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to admin tools.lnk}
etc.
How to do all this we've added to the permanent Usenet archives just so
that people like you can do what we discussed long ago, in fact.
See these threads for details on how to do what you need to do:
o Over 250 Start > Run commands (please improve this Start Run commands list)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/cc1lGn3ty0E>
o Please follow this cut-and-paste tutorial to get batch command shortcuts working perfectly on Windows
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1PzeGP4KMTU>
o What Windows 10 default files contain lots of useful icons for shortcuts to be set to?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/jprmtBFx/what-windows-10-default-files-contain-lots-of-useful-icons-for-shortcuts-to-be-set-to>
o Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots using only Irfanview freeware
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/jvyr_JLnBAAJ>
Once we figure out how to add what you want to the cascade menu, we should
likely update this thread of useful shortcuts so that all benefit from
every action of ours on Usenet:
o What useful Windows shortcuts would you like to share with users?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/80ZHKKFom0c>
o What Windwos freeware adds powerful "phone Susan" & "vipw" commands?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/arlen$20menu|sort:date/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/ySVGbayhLSk/ucth1LPoBAAJ>
Where you need to know how batch/shortcut/target shortcut links differ in
the TARGET line syntax (which is an oddity of Windows it seems):
o What syntax combines 2 commands into a single shortcut TARGET line?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.msdos.batch/azQbz6D_v0Y>
o Shutdown or Restart Windows without bickering
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/Ou___EcjwKo>
> Also, it seems to be hit-and-miss whether you get a start menu (Windows 10
> style) or the infamous "mess of tiles" that covers most of the screen with
> huge icons that organise themselves at random (eg Word is not always two
> columns from the left on the third row).
You may not know this, but I've written many tutorials on how to wrest
control over Windows menus, ever since the Win95 days, where I feel, had
Microsoft hired me years ago, the menus would make sense today.
While I always try to gain control over the native menu system, I've
explained in many threads why Microsoft made that simple task difficult,
e.g.,
o Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized
KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8>
> I tend not to use the Start Menu on a regular basis, expect for Control
> Panel and Devices & Printers. or for accessing a rarely-used program.
To that end, I keep a shortcut to the "Run" command on my taskbar:
taskbar > Run > control
As described in this thread on pinning the Run icon to the taskbar:
o Is it even possible to pin the RUN command icon to the taskbar
WITHOUT surrendering to a Windows Search?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.msdos.batch/Ik_ejNXbrrw>
> For commonly-ones, I locate them in the Start Menu and then copy the shortcut to
> the desktop - and I screen-print the desktop when it's all set up so I can
> restore icons to the places where I've put them (grouped according to
> category) if Windows decides to move them - which seems to happen (but only
> occasionally) if I've accessed my PC's desktop remotely from my phone or
> laptop by Real VNC.
Yes. Indeed. Windows acts in strange ways, just like the proverbial
capricious Gods when it comes to messing up my carefully arranged desktop
also.
I suggest you put NOTHING on your desktop; put those valuable shortcuts in
your data directory (which is the only directory you ever need to back up),
and then you can simply copy that one directory tree to any newly set up
machine, and you're instantly good to go (it's what I do so I know it
works, and I've been doing this since, oh, I guess well into the Win95
days, where that one menu hierarchy works on all machines I've set up).
NOTE: I use a consistent hierarchy organized by FUNCTIONALITY (which almost
never changes over time), such as these samples would indicate:
o Taskbar > menu > archiver > veracrypt.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > browser > firefox.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > cleaner > ccleaner.lnk
etc.
To philosophize, I feel Microsoft screwed up on ORGANIZATION, where it's
trivial to organize a computer, IMHO (see aforementioned threads) if you
think about it ahead of time, since there are very few things you do,
overall, e.g., you "browse" and you "edit" and you "network", etc.,
so my systems (on my phone also) are organized by FUNCTIONALITY:
C:\apps\browsers
C:\apps\editors
C:\apps\networking
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals, but I added plurals above for illustrative
reasons, where my names are 8+3 and easily guessed (which is why I don't
use plurals, since it adds zero value & yet has to be typed correctly).
For the _same_ organizational strategy on my phone, see this screenshot:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hjwRjQWV/homescreen01.jpg>
And, while iOS is shockingly primitive compared to every other common
consumer operating system, you can still organize by a similar
functionality hierarchy, as I have done on my iPads:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QdmBcwGC/homescreen00.jpg>
In short, while both Microsoft & Google (and Apple) would have benefited
greatly had they hired me to define their overall user interface (i.e., the
whole world would have an easier time with what a lot of people have
trouble with), at least I can help you access everything from what we've
been calling the "start menu" (which is really the "taskbar menu").
> I'm used to Windows 7: I can "drive" it with me eyes closed (almost!) so I
> feel lost and wrong-footed if I try to use vanilla Win 10 without Classic
> Shell.
That's my whole point.
Notice even in Android, my entire system ports over _seamlessly_ from any
device, simply because they're all organized by FUNCTIONALITY (which almost
never changes over time!).
So on ANY Windows, from Win95 up, you copy over ONE menu hierarchy, and it
works OUT OF THE BOX (for the most part, depending on how CONSISTENT you
are) on ALL PC's you, yourself, set up.
All you have to do is be consistent with your organizational strategy,
which is a LOT easier than people think, as we all do the same things
(e.g., we browse, we print, we edit, etc.).
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwdW0vrW/apk01.jpg>
> It's a shame that Win 10 hasn't merged the Control Panel (traditional UI)
> and PC Settings (Modern UI) into a single set.
I'm not sure _what_ Microsoft is doing with the control panel lately...
o Microsoft is reputedly beginning to sunset the Control Panel system applet
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/APpB-RBSBCI>
> It is tedious to have to
> switch between the two because neither on its own can do *everything*.. I
> *much* prefer the traditional UI with a proper menu bar (instead of a
> cog-wheel or three-lines icon) to access settings.
Take a look at the aforementioned thread on the 250 things you can do with
the Start > Run menu, and let us know what's missing that you need.
For example, we added a bright red admin prompt command, as one sample:
o Efficient Windows Admin command prompt of any color in any desired location
<https://alt.msdos.batch.narkive.com/0mQlFn8s/efficient-windows-admin-command-prompt-of-any-color-in-any-desired-location>
The whole point of that permanently archived thread is to allow people like
you to do what we researched (which took lots of time & energy) for you.
If you can't do something you need to do, then it's time to update those
threads, where I consider a thread a permanent reference which can be
updated as long as my news server has the article that I can respond to.
> Modern is too pared-down
> (and dumbed-down) for my liking. Microsoft made a very serious mistake with
> Win 8 in trying to make a tablet-style minimalist UI the default.
Agreed. Paul and I tried to wrest control over the damn tiles, where you
end up in binaries as you dig deeper, so I just gave up on both the Win10
right side (orthogonal) menu and the Win10 left side (alphabetical) menus.
In fact, we've discussed on this ng many related ways to make Win10
efficient and organized, some of which are summarized in this thread:
o Is this the most efficient way to access most-used folders &
the entire file system with the LEAST amount of clutter?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/e8etKofB/is-this-the-most-efficient-way-to-access-most-used-folders-the-entire-file-system-with-the-least>
> They
> should have made it much easier to switch between the two - "Make Windows 10
> look like all previous versions of Windows" versus "Use our new tablet-style
> UI", and that change should be one that can be made at any time on a
> per-user basis, not one that is system-wide and can only be configured at
> installation time.
Um... if you use what I suggest above, EVERY Windows version from about
Win95 to the latest Win10 can use the exact same menu folder.
It's what I do, so I know it works as I've been doing it for a decade or
two (I don't count how many years, and I do improve the organization over
time, but it's essentially the same for all Windows versions out there).
> But all that is a side issue to the problem with the graphics adaptor on VGA
> output. The only reason I use VGA / D-Sub is that my monitor has only one of
> each port (VGA, DVI, HDMI) and I like my main Win 7 PC on DVI to give the
> sharpest picture, with VGA for any other PC that I may connect temporarily
> (Win 10, Ubuntu), and HDMI for devices that *only* have an HDMI port (eg
> Raspberry Pi, on the rare occasions when I need to connect to it monitor and
> keyboard, because something is stopping me accessing it by Real VNC or
> PuTTY). I could get a KVM console switch, I suppose ;-)
Yes. I understand. I have graphics issues myself lately, as shown here:
o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem>
--
Those who purposefully help others on Usenet are few and far between.
(since every post should provide value now & years to come)
Regarding related leverageable links to remember from this post today...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/NQth1-96ROw/6DrhttQaCgAJ>
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:16:00 +0100, NY wrote:
> I installed Classic Shell to give me a "proper" Start Menu.
I never understood _why_ people go to this much trouble...
o to obtain the WinXP accordion cascade menu that was always there!
o *Why does anyone bother to install Classic Shell on Windows if all
they want is the WinXP accordion-style sliding cascade Start Menu?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/classic$20start$20menu%7Csort:date/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/dTHKXIdlqcw/1YpoS4ITAQAJ>
If you understand how Windows works, you'll realize, instantly, the WinXP
accordion style menu exists & never left Windows in the first place.
It's EXACTLY the same (i.e., it's just a folder hierarchy of shortcuts).
In fact, I've copied my XP menu to Windows 10 and it works beautifully.
(Note that I maintain the same hierarchy on all machines, which is why
copying the "menu" folder from any of my machines works for all of them).
It's just a hierarchical folder pinned to the taskbar, containing
shortcuts.
--
People grasp at straws when they never had the problem in the 1st place.
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 11:33:32 +0100, NY wrote:
> I agree that there is a hierarchical folder for third-party applications
> that you install on Win 10,
Hi NY,
To continue, always, to be purposefully helpful to all adults on Usenet...
I realize this is OT, where I was mainly responding to your words, since I
am a fact-based aspy who always tries to figure out the strange reasons why
people do the strange non-factual things they do. :)
I'm well trained in organic chemistry, where, whenever I'm at the gas
station, for example, and some Honda Civic pulls up and the driver puts in
Premium, I ask them "why", and what I get back is utter nonsense (most of
it is utter bull, fed to them by gas advertisers) either about "higher
power" or "increased performance" or "cleaner engines"... which is just
impossible to gain for a stock engine in normal condition under normal use
(yet, they literally _believe_ in the imaginary belief system MARKETING fed
them to believe in).
o FAQ: Automotive Gasoline, by Bruce Hamilton
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/>
Same with people who own iPhones: I ask them while I'm waiting in line what
they like about it, and I _always_ get back almost a one-to-one parrot of
what MARKETING fed them to believe (e.g., "no malware", "frequent updates",
"security & safety", etc.), all of which is easily proven MARKETING
bulldunk.
o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU>
Same with Classic Shell (and it's variants), where every time someone
mentions it, I simply remind them, nicely, that if all they want are WinXP
cascaded accordion-style menus, they never left Windows 10 in the first
place (they never left ANY Windows version, in fact).
I do though, very much so, ORGANIZE my Windows dual monitors, so I
APPRECIATE your needs, given the capriciousness of the dual-monitor setup,
as I, myself, (together with Paul), have ascertained in the past, e.g.,
o Philosophically, how do you "organize" two monitors
(only applicable to those of you with dual monitors)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/OVaj9a326Bo>
> but I haven't found any links for Devices &
> Printers, Control Panel, etc.
Long ago I added to the Usenet tribal record, just for this purpose,
_every_ command known to Windows man already (see links below), e.g.,
this brought up my "Devices & Printers" on Win10 Pro v1909 just now:
o Win+R > Run > control printers
o Win+R > Run > ::{26EE0668-A00A-44D7-9371-BEB064C98683}\2\::{A8A91A66-3A7D-4424-8D24-04E180695C7A}
While this opens up the "device discovery", for example:
o Win+R > Run > ms-settings-connectabledevices:devicediscovery
And this brought up the "Start Menu & Taskbar manager", for example:
o Win+R > Run > devmoderunasuserconfig.msc
And, of course, this opens up the control panel:
o Win+R > Run > control
Where you can get into any specific app wizard if you have the list which
I've provided, long ago, to the Usenet permanent archives for this task,
for example...
o Win+R > Run > control admintools
o Win+R > Run > appwiz.cpl
o Win+R > Run > control.exe /name Microsoft.TaskbarandStartMenu
etc. (we documented _hundreds_ of these commands, see link below)
The point is simply that if you can use "Start Run" to get to the "Devices
& Printers", or to the "Control Panel", then you can make a shortcut to
those commands, which you can give a custom icon, and then you can then put
your custom shortcut in your "menu" folder, which is already pinned to the
taskbar, perhaps under:
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to devices_and_printers.lnk}
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to control panel.lnk}
o taskbar > menu > os > {your custom shortcut to admin tools.lnk}
etc.
How to do all this we've added to the permanent Usenet archives just so
that people like you can do what we discussed long ago, in fact.
See these threads for details on how to do what you need to do:
o Over 250 Start > Run commands (please improve this Start Run commands list)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/cc1lGn3ty0E>
o Please follow this cut-and-paste tutorial to get batch command shortcuts working perfectly on Windows
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1PzeGP4KMTU>
o What Windows 10 default files contain lots of useful icons for shortcuts to be set to?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/jprmtBFx/what-windows-10-default-files-contain-lots-of-useful-icons-for-shortcuts-to-be-set-to>
o Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots using only Irfanview freeware
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/jvyr_JLnBAAJ>
Once we figure out how to add what you want to the cascade menu, we should
likely update this thread of useful shortcuts so that all benefit from
every action of ours on Usenet:
o What useful Windows shortcuts would you like to share with users?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/80ZHKKFom0c>
o What Windwos freeware adds powerful "phone Susan" & "vipw" commands?
Where you need to know how batch/shortcut/target shortcut links differ in
the TARGET line syntax (which is an oddity of Windows it seems):
o What syntax combines 2 commands into a single shortcut TARGET line?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.msdos.batch/azQbz6D_v0Y>
o Shutdown or Restart Windows without bickering
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/Ou___EcjwKo>
> Also, it seems to be hit-and-miss whether you get a start menu (Windows 10
> style) or the infamous "mess of tiles" that covers most of the screen with
> huge icons that organise themselves at random (eg Word is not always two
> columns from the left on the third row).
You may not know this, but I've written many tutorials on how to wrest
control over Windows menus, ever since the Win95 days, where I feel, had
Microsoft hired me years ago, the menus would make sense today.
While I always try to gain control over the native menu system, I've
explained in many threads why Microsoft made that simple task difficult,
e.g.,
o Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized
KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8>
> I tend not to use the Start Menu on a regular basis, expect for Control
> Panel and Devices & Printers. or for accessing a rarely-used program.
To that end, I keep a shortcut to the "Run" command on my taskbar:
taskbar > Run > control
As described in this thread on pinning the Run icon to the taskbar:
o Is it even possible to pin the RUN command icon to the taskbar
WITHOUT surrendering to a Windows Search?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.msdos.batch/Ik_ejNXbrrw>
> For commonly-ones, I locate them in the Start Menu and then copy the shortcut to
> the desktop - and I screen-print the desktop when it's all set up so I can
> restore icons to the places where I've put them (grouped according to
> category) if Windows decides to move them - which seems to happen (but only
> occasionally) if I've accessed my PC's desktop remotely from my phone or
> laptop by Real VNC.
Yes. Indeed. Windows acts in strange ways, just like the proverbial
capricious Gods when it comes to messing up my carefully arranged desktop
also.
I suggest you put NOTHING on your desktop; put those valuable shortcuts in
your data directory (which is the only directory you ever need to back up),
and then you can simply copy that one directory tree to any newly set up
machine, and you're instantly good to go (it's what I do so I know it
works, and I've been doing this since, oh, I guess well into the Win95
days, where that one menu hierarchy works on all machines I've set up).
NOTE: I use a consistent hierarchy organized by FUNCTIONALITY (which almost
never changes over time), such as these samples would indicate:
o Taskbar > menu > archiver > veracrypt.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > browser > firefox.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > cleaner > ccleaner.lnk
etc.
To philosophize, I feel Microsoft screwed up on ORGANIZATION, where it's
trivial to organize a computer, IMHO (see aforementioned threads) if you
think about it ahead of time, since there are very few things you do,
overall, e.g., you "browse" and you "edit" and you "network", etc.,
so my systems (on my phone also) are organized by FUNCTIONALITY:
C:\apps\browsers
C:\apps\editors
C:\apps\networking
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals, but I added plurals above for illustrative
reasons, where my names are 8+3 and easily guessed (which is why I don't
use plurals, since it adds zero value & yet has to be typed correctly).
For the _same_ organizational strategy on my phone, see this screenshot:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hjwRjQWV/homescreen01.jpg>
And, while iOS is shockingly primitive compared to every other common
consumer operating system, you can still organize by a similar
functionality hierarchy, as I have done on my iPads:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QdmBcwGC/homescreen00.jpg>
In short, while both Microsoft & Google (and Apple) would have benefited
greatly had they hired me to define their overall user interface (i.e., the
whole world would have an easier time with what a lot of people have
trouble with), at least I can help you access everything from what we've
been calling the "start menu" (which is really the "taskbar menu").
> I'm used to Windows 7: I can "drive" it with me eyes closed (almost!) so I
> feel lost and wrong-footed if I try to use vanilla Win 10 without Classic
> Shell.
That's my whole point.
Notice even in Android, my entire system ports over _seamlessly_ from any
device, simply because they're all organized by FUNCTIONALITY (which almost
never changes over time!).
So on ANY Windows, from Win95 up, you copy over ONE menu hierarchy, and it
works OUT OF THE BOX (for the most part, depending on how CONSISTENT you
are) on ALL PC's you, yourself, set up.
All you have to do is be consistent with your organizational strategy,
which is a LOT easier than people think, as we all do the same things
(e.g., we browse, we print, we edit, etc.).
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwdW0vrW/apk01.jpg>
> It's a shame that Win 10 hasn't merged the Control Panel (traditional UI)
> and PC Settings (Modern UI) into a single set.
I'm not sure _what_ Microsoft is doing with the control panel lately...
o Microsoft is reputedly beginning to sunset the Control Panel system applet
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/APpB-RBSBCI>
> It is tedious to have to
> switch between the two because neither on its own can do *everything*.. I
> *much* prefer the traditional UI with a proper menu bar (instead of a
> cog-wheel or three-lines icon) to access settings.
Take a look at the aforementioned thread on the 250 things you can do with
the Start > Run menu, and let us know what's missing that you need.
For example, we added a bright red admin prompt command, as one sample:
o Efficient Windows Admin command prompt of any color in any desired location
<https://alt.msdos.batch.narkive.com/0mQlFn8s/efficient-windows-admin-command-prompt-of-any-color-in-any-desired-location>
The whole point of that permanently archived thread is to allow people like
you to do what we researched (which took lots of time & energy) for you.
If you can't do something you need to do, then it's time to update those
threads, where I consider a thread a permanent reference which can be
updated as long as my news server has the article that I can respond to.
> Modern is too pared-down
> (and dumbed-down) for my liking. Microsoft made a very serious mistake with
> Win 8 in trying to make a tablet-style minimalist UI the default.
Agreed. Paul and I tried to wrest control over the damn tiles, where you
end up in binaries as you dig deeper, so I just gave up on both the Win10
right side (orthogonal) menu and the Win10 left side (alphabetical) menus.
In fact, we've discussed on this ng many related ways to make Win10
efficient and organized, some of which are summarized in this thread:
o Is this the most efficient way to access most-used folders &
the entire file system with the LEAST amount of clutter?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/e8etKofB/is-this-the-most-efficient-way-to-access-most-used-folders-the-entire-file-system-with-the-least>
> They
> should have made it much easier to switch between the two - "Make Windows 10
> look like all previous versions of Windows" versus "Use our new tablet-style
> UI", and that change should be one that can be made at any time on a
> per-user basis, not one that is system-wide and can only be configured at
> installation time.
Um... if you use what I suggest above, EVERY Windows version from about
Win95 to the latest Win10 can use the exact same menu folder.
It's what I do, so I know it works as I've been doing it for a decade or
two (I don't count how many years, and I do improve the organization over
time, but it's essentially the same for all Windows versions out there).
> But all that is a side issue to the problem with the graphics adaptor on VGA
> output. The only reason I use VGA / D-Sub is that my monitor has only one of
> each port (VGA, DVI, HDMI) and I like my main Win 7 PC on DVI to give the
> sharpest picture, with VGA for any other PC that I may connect temporarily
> (Win 10, Ubuntu), and HDMI for devices that *only* have an HDMI port (eg
> Raspberry Pi, on the rare occasions when I need to connect to it monitor and
> keyboard, because something is stopping me accessing it by Real VNC or
> PuTTY). I could get a KVM console switch, I suppose ;-)
Yes. I understand. I have graphics issues myself lately, as shown here:
o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem>
--
Those who purposefully help others on Usenet are few and far between.
Arlen Holder
Jul 31, 2020, 11:43:32 PM7/31/20
to
UPDATE:
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrcV1pXF/browser06.jpg>
I forgot to mention I figured out how to get all three Windows browsers to
work on Windows 10 concurrently
a. Internet explorer
b. Old legacy Microsoft Edge UWB classic
c. New Chromium-based Microsoft Edge
<https://i.postimg.cc/QN6rbSQD/browser05.jpg>
See this response just now, for example, on this thread:
o internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?, by Bentot
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/Iq6fdo9G/internet-exporer-pullled-by-microsoft>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/8RGvF5vEgyg>
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:34:41 -0500, gooby wrote:
>>o Otherwise, it's too much of a PITA to even go rummaging to look for 'em.
>
> Check in c:\app\web\
>
> All ur browsers be in there. same sence xp.
Holy cow! I don't know you, but you clearly know me well!
o My menus from Windows 95 to XP to Win7, Vista, & Win10 are the same!
Exact same files, in fact; simply zipped up to port to _all_ my PCs!
o They have only improved slightly, over the decades, with new software.
Even iOS/Android devices use, essentially, the same functional hierarchy
o What we do on a computer doesn't change, essentially, between machines.
We edit, we browse, we archive, we network, we telecommunicate, etc.
o The fact you know that fact, means, you know me well: You are good!
What we do is the same functional menu hierarchy on all desktop machines!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PrcV1pXF/browser06.jpg>
You're actually damn good because one in a million can do what you said!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QN6rbSQD/browser05.jpg>
1. Here is my screenshot of C:\app\ where browser is next, as you knew:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/jqvR1RrG/browser01.jpg>
2. Below that, are the "types" of browsers, one of which is http
o <https://i.postimg.cc/xdrQmCKb/browser02.jpg>
3. Inside of http shows four fundamental browser code bases:
(chromium based, mozilla based, independents, & microsoft based)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9MwXsDr/browser03.jpg>
4. Inside the Microsoft code base are the three MS Windows 10 browsers:
(internet explorer, old legacy Edge UWB classic, new Edge Chrome)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4y3RGhTj/browser04.jpg>
Looking at the M$ *.lnk shortcuts, these are the TARGETS to each:
a. Internet Explorer
TARGET: "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe"
b. Old legacy Edge UWB classic
TARGET: %windir%\explorer.exe
shell:Appsfolder\Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe!MicrosoftEdge
c. New Edge Chrome
TARGET: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\Edge\Application\msedge.exe"
Entering those commands into the Win+R Run box brings up each browser:
a. InternetExplorer: Gear icon > About Internet Explorer
Version 11.959.18362.0 (Update version 11.0.200)
b. Edge UWB: Elipses > Settings > General > About this app
Version Microsoft Edge 44.18362.449.0
Version Microsoft EdgeHTML 18.18363
c. Edge Chrome: Elipses > Settings > About Microsoft Edge
Version 84.0.522.50 (Official build) (64-bit)
As you noted, all three browsers work just fine concurrently in Win10!
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrcV1pXF/browser06.jpg>
--
Those who control Windows find that the simplest solutions work on all PCs.
Arlen Holder
Aug 1, 2020, 1:54:13 AM8/1/20
to
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 03:43:30 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
> I forgot to mention I figured out how to get all three Windows browsers to
> work on Windows 10 concurrently
I should note there were a few simple "tricks" that were needed in order to
> I forgot to mention I figured out how to get all three Windows browsers to
> work on Windows 10 concurrently
get all three Microsoft browsers to coexist peacefully on Windows 10.
While Internet Explorer, AFAIK, is unaffected when installilng the new Edge.
o "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe"
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrcV1pXF/browser06.jpg
As far as I know, unless you change two registry keys, whenever Edge Chrome
is installed, the old Edge legacy classic UWB is "hidden" automatically.
o Edge Chrome:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\Edge\Application\msedge.exe"
o Edge UWB:
%windir%\explorer.exe shell:Appsfolder\Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe!MicrosoftEdge
AFAIK, the old Edge comes back the instant you delete the new Edge,
but in most Windows 10 systems, you can't delete the new Edge
(the control panel and systems add/remove programs is grayed out).
However, if you know the trick below, you can easily delete it!
o C:\> cd C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\Edge\Application\84.0.522.50\Installer\
o C:\> setup.exe --uninstall --system-level --force-uninstall --verbose-logging
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SzGQkQZ/archive-installer.jpg>
Note that the given logging option is optional and that the directory name
(in my case, it's the current version 84.0.522.50) will change over time
because it's based on the version of new Edge that you have installed.
You need this trick because the "Uninstall" is grayed out in the GUI.
But the new Edge will come back with the next Windows Update, unless you
know two more tricks, which are registry keys to change to allow peace &
harmony among Edges (and yet another trick, which is the timing of it all).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QN6rbSQD/browser05.jpg>
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate]
"DoNotUpdateToEdgeWithChromium"=dword:00000001
And
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate]
"Allowsxs"=dword:00000001
The former prevents Windows Update from stepping on your browser of choice,
and the latter allows peaceful coexistence of the two Edges concurrently.
All this is AFAIK, as I've only done it once, on one machine, so I ask
others who test it out to clarify, correct, and continue to add value.
--
Usenet is a wonderful polite public potluck of useful adult discussions
Arlen Holder
Aug 27, 2020, 3:03:02 AM8/27/20
to
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 05:54:11 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
> I should note there were a few simple "tricks" that were needed in order to
> get all three Microsoft browsers to coexist peacefully on Windows 10.
Update:
> I should note there were a few simple "tricks" that were needed in order to
> get all three Microsoft browsers to coexist peacefully on Windows 10.
For how to set up all three M$ browsers simultaneously, see this tutorial:
o Tutorial to set up 3 Microsoft web browsers (Edge UWB, new Edge, & Internet Explorer) to work concurrently coexisting peacefully even after subsequent Windows Updates
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/fZlJTYRxYFg>
For example: <https://i.postimg.cc/q7VC5YXV/microsoft-browsers01.jpg>
For an example of setting up all your browsers in an organized fashion:
o Discussion of two different privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY>
For example: <https://i.postimg.cc/Mpwvz1pF/browser09.jpg>
Did I miss any commonly available freeware web browsers?
--
Usenet is a rich public web-searchable archive of solutions & tutorials.
Arlen Holder
Dec 29, 2020, 10:09:45 AM12/29/20
to
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:00:57 +0000, scbs29 wrote:
> Hello all.
> I am a new user of Windows 10 Pro, ie. 3 days. I wish to install a
> program, ON1 Photo 10 to the D: drive to save space on my SSD C:
> drive. Following information I found in
> https://xxx.wikihow.com/Change-the-Default-Installation-Location-on-Windows-10
>
> I opened Settings - System - Storage - Change where new content is
> saved and changed New apps will save to: from C: to D:.
> I then started to install ON1 Photo 10 and discovered that the program
> was still installed to the C: drive.
>
> When I used WIndows 7 Pro I could change a registry entry to change
> the installation drive. If there is an insurmountable reason why the
> Settings option does not work for a program as opposed to an App (What
> is the difference ?), perhaps there is a corresponding registry change
> for Windows 10.
>
> Can anyone help ?
> TIA
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:21:43 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> "Change where new apps will save TO" means, I suspect, where those apps
> will save files _they produce_, not where the apps themselves will
> install themselves. If, say, the app. is a picture editor, it means
> where it will store pictures, not where it will install itself.
>
> I may be wrong about that.
>
> Unless your SSD is tiny, I'd let prog.s (app.s - I don't know what the
> difference is either; I don't think there is one) install on C:, just
> make sure they store what they work on on D:.
For decades, I have been installing programs "where they belong".
o In the olden days (Win95?) I used PC Mag Ziff Davis COA & COA32
But "Change of Address" was deprecated & apparently removed from the net:
o <http://f2.org/software/win32/free/admin.html> (search for coa32.zip)
All well-written programs allow you to _set_ a "custom" install location
o And you can move "most" of those which are written by outfits which don't
Only a handful of poorly written apps don't allow a custom install location
o Where "most" of those can be moved to where they belong (if you're smart)
For example:
o What's the best way to MOVE an app to where it belongs, after it has already been installed?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/hqKijRgHOC0>
I'm a big proponent of organizing programs by what "function" they perform:
o Where I install _hundreds_ of apps (on Windows, Android, & iOS) by their function
For example, on Android, we do the same things we do on all computers:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6p53m46/homescreen01.jpg>
Likewise on iOS (although available functionality is always less with Apple):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
As on Windows:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
Where _all_ programs generally fit into fewer than a dozen logical functions.
o For example, we "browse"; we "edit", we "telecommunicate", etc.
This organizes a PC such that the hierarchy is the same for all PCs, e.g.,
o {X}:\installers\editors\pic\irvanview\
o {X}:\apps\editors\pic\irfanview\
o {X}:\menu\editors\pic\irfanview.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > editors > pic > irfanview
NOTE: I don't use plurals for consistency; but include them here for simplicity.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/qvJDMQcq/taskbarmenu02.jpg>
As per a philosophy on organizing a PC in a manner that makes sense to you:
o Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
Nothing is ever purposefully stored in {Program Files,Program Files (x86}}
o The only crap in those folders is from poorly written shitty programs (IMHO)
Once you hone your functional hierarchy, it rarely changes over the years
o Such that a Win95 or WinXP cascade menu often works even when copied to Win10
In fact, I proved a WinXP cascade menu works when directly copied to Win10:
o Why does anyone bother to install Classic Shell on Windows if all they want is the WinXP accordion-style sliding cascade Start Menu?
<https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/c/dTHKXIdlqcw>
Had Microsoft hired me to solve their GUI, organization would be the norm (IMHO)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others as they help me.
> Hello all.
> I am a new user of Windows 10 Pro, ie. 3 days. I wish to install a
> program, ON1 Photo 10 to the D: drive to save space on my SSD C:
> drive. Following information I found in
> https://xxx.wikihow.com/Change-the-Default-Installation-Location-on-Windows-10
>
> I opened Settings - System - Storage - Change where new content is
> saved and changed New apps will save to: from C: to D:.
> I then started to install ON1 Photo 10 and discovered that the program
> was still installed to the C: drive.
>
> When I used WIndows 7 Pro I could change a registry entry to change
> the installation drive. If there is an insurmountable reason why the
> Settings option does not work for a program as opposed to an App (What
> is the difference ?), perhaps there is a corresponding registry change
> for Windows 10.
>
> Can anyone help ?
> TIA
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:21:43 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> "Change where new apps will save TO" means, I suspect, where those apps
> will save files _they produce_, not where the apps themselves will
> install themselves. If, say, the app. is a picture editor, it means
> where it will store pictures, not where it will install itself.
>
> I may be wrong about that.
>
> Unless your SSD is tiny, I'd let prog.s (app.s - I don't know what the
> difference is either; I don't think there is one) install on C:, just
> make sure they store what they work on on D:.
For decades, I have been installing programs "where they belong".
o In the olden days (Win95?) I used PC Mag Ziff Davis COA & COA32
But "Change of Address" was deprecated & apparently removed from the net:
o <http://f2.org/software/win32/free/admin.html> (search for coa32.zip)
All well-written programs allow you to _set_ a "custom" install location
o And you can move "most" of those which are written by outfits which don't
Only a handful of poorly written apps don't allow a custom install location
o Where "most" of those can be moved to where they belong (if you're smart)
For example:
o What's the best way to MOVE an app to where it belongs, after it has already been installed?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/hqKijRgHOC0>
I'm a big proponent of organizing programs by what "function" they perform:
o Where I install _hundreds_ of apps (on Windows, Android, & iOS) by their function
For example, on Android, we do the same things we do on all computers:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6p53m46/homescreen01.jpg>
Likewise on iOS (although available functionality is always less with Apple):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
As on Windows:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
Where _all_ programs generally fit into fewer than a dozen logical functions.
o For example, we "browse"; we "edit", we "telecommunicate", etc.
This organizes a PC such that the hierarchy is the same for all PCs, e.g.,
o {X}:\installers\editors\pic\irvanview\
o {X}:\apps\editors\pic\irfanview\
o {X}:\menu\editors\pic\irfanview.lnk
o Taskbar > menu > editors > pic > irfanview
NOTE: I don't use plurals for consistency; but include them here for simplicity.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/qvJDMQcq/taskbarmenu02.jpg>
As per a philosophy on organizing a PC in a manner that makes sense to you:
o Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
Nothing is ever purposefully stored in {Program Files,Program Files (x86}}
o The only crap in those folders is from poorly written shitty programs (IMHO)
Once you hone your functional hierarchy, it rarely changes over the years
o Such that a Win95 or WinXP cascade menu often works even when copied to Win10
In fact, I proved a WinXP cascade menu works when directly copied to Win10:
o Why does anyone bother to install Classic Shell on Windows if all they want is the WinXP accordion-style sliding cascade Start Menu?
<https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/c/dTHKXIdlqcw>
Had Microsoft hired me to solve their GUI, organization would be the norm (IMHO)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others as they help me.
Arlen Holder
Dec 29, 2020, 1:35:08 PM12/29/20
to
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:33:16 -0600, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> Apps from Microsoft store don't give you an option,
> they always install on C:\.
1. I never use Microsoft Store apps, but I don't doubt they're badly
written such that they probably do not even ask where they belong.
2. I've been installing apps "where they belong" (as defined by me)
for decades, ever since at least the Win95 & WinXP days.
3. All well written apps (IMHO) have a "custom" selection so that users
can install the apps where users feel those app installs belong.
4. Only poorly written apps (IMHO) do not have a "custom" option to
install them where they belong.
5. Over the years, I've found that "most" of the poorly written apps
seem to be from "big outfits" such as Google, Adobe, Microsoft, etc.
6. It's just insane, IMHO, to install apps willy nilly into wherever
hundreds of different developers feel like putting them, particularly
since _many_ outfits add all sorts of extraneous "advertisements"
to their filespec (in addition to spaces, and even capital letters,
which, sometimes even today, do make a PITA escaping & typing and
file completion difference if you ever tried messing with scripts
particularly with the Windows registry).
7. The beauty of installing apps where they belong is that you can
find them without a search, and, you can more easily find rogue
apps (which won't be in your installation hierarchy) and your
installation hierarchy and Taskbar menus stay pristine as nothing
pollutes them, so they remain pure for your needs.
8. For example, if you want to run your favorite photo editor,
all the paths on all machines over decades remains the same:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
For example...
Installer archive (this is the primary program backup):
o {X}:\menus\editors\pic\irfanview.lnk
o Taskbar > menus > editors > pic > irfanview
Note: I don't use plurals; but I add them here for readability.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to impart knowledge to others.
> Apps from Microsoft store don't give you an option,
> they always install on C:\.
1. I never use Microsoft Store apps, but I don't doubt they're badly
written such that they probably do not even ask where they belong.
2. I've been installing apps "where they belong" (as defined by me)
for decades, ever since at least the Win95 & WinXP days.
3. All well written apps (IMHO) have a "custom" selection so that users
can install the apps where users feel those app installs belong.
4. Only poorly written apps (IMHO) do not have a "custom" option to
install them where they belong.
5. Over the years, I've found that "most" of the poorly written apps
seem to be from "big outfits" such as Google, Adobe, Microsoft, etc.
6. It's just insane, IMHO, to install apps willy nilly into wherever
hundreds of different developers feel like putting them, particularly
since _many_ outfits add all sorts of extraneous "advertisements"
to their filespec (in addition to spaces, and even capital letters,
which, sometimes even today, do make a PITA escaping & typing and
file completion difference if you ever tried messing with scripts
particularly with the Windows registry).
7. The beauty of installing apps where they belong is that you can
find them without a search, and, you can more easily find rogue
apps (which won't be in your installation hierarchy) and your
installation hierarchy and Taskbar menus stay pristine as nothing
pollutes them, so they remain pure for your needs.
8. For example, if you want to run your favorite photo editor,
all the paths on all machines over decades remains the same:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
For example...
Installer archive (this is the primary program backup):
o {X}:\installers\editors\pic\irvanview\
Installed location (this is installed on each machine):
o {X}:\apps\editors\pic\irfanview\
Menu location (this is archived & copied to all machines):
o {X}:\menus\editors\pic\irfanview.lnk
o Taskbar > menus > editors > pic > irfanview
Note: I don't use plurals; but I add them here for readability.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to impart knowledge to others.
Arlen Holder
Dec 29, 2020, 1:40:26 PM12/29/20
to
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:22:31 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
> The installation drive is not the problem. You can
> tell the installer to install to D drive.
As is almost always, if not always the case, Mayayana is consistent:
1. He actually knows microsoft installers far better than do most of us
2. But he's still often wrong because he's rather intuitive & less so empirical
The empirical fact is that with "some" installers, they don't have options
to put your installed files in a "custom" location of the users' choice.
Infamous for that restriction, for example, are many Google products (e.g.,
Chrome, and many of its variants, e.g., Epic & Brave).
As Renee already noted, many Microsoft products also don't provide an
option to install where they belong; but _most_ application installers are
(IMHO) well written in that they allow a "custom" install location choice.
> But many programs
> will then use your personal folder to save files, without
> asking you.
Mayayana is correct in stating that the "data files" are often stored in a
hard-coded location set by poorly written programs.
As all of us know, "some" programs have settings for where you'd like to
store your data, while others have no such option in their menu system.
And "most" (it seems) allow you to install the program "where it belongs"
o As always "where it belongs" is defined by you!
> Program settings will be in the Registry or
> your App Data folder. That's all on C drive. In most
> cases there's no choice. Unless you run as admin or
> change folder permissions, software is unable to write
> to other locations, such as the program folder.
This is correct, IMHO.
> So it's really not a good idea to do it that way.
I disagree with the overall solution assessment by Mayayana.
o For decades, I've been successful controlling "most" programs.
1. I install the program "where it belongs"
2. I archive & set Taskbar pullout menus to the same consistent hierarchy
3. I "try" to get the programs to store data "where it belongs"
As always, the user defines the value of "where it belongs"
o But, for me, data belongs in "{X}:\data\{my hierarchy}\"
Notice that backup & reuse is trivial as it's simply a "copy"
a. The data hierarchy is the most important to back up
b. The menu hierarchy is (in my case) inside the data hierarchy
c. Nothing else, in practice, needs to be backed up (in most cases)
When you re-install on another machine, it's 3 simple steps:
A. You install all programs from your installation hierarchy
B. You install them into the same consistent "apps" hierarchy
C. You _copy_ the menu over which then works right out of the box!
This philosophy is described in further detail over here:
o Tutorial for KISS setup of Windows programs for easy use & re-install
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
> Better to buy a bigger SSD and clone to it.
I disagree that "cloning" is a good solution.
o IMHO, a good solution is to organize for re-use (as shown above).
> It might also be possible to move your documents folder to D.
> I'm not sure. I've never used that folder.
I don't think it matters _which_ drive the data is stored on.
o But I generally install data on the "C" drive so I'd have to test it
> Example: If you install Firefox it will write a lot of
> stuff to 2 different App Data folders. It's a design
> meant for security and multiple users, but the down
> side is that only experts can back up their Firefox
> settings, and if you have to reinstall at some point,
> the Firefox program on D drive will lose all of its
> configuration files.
Mayayana knows browser set up better than almost all of us.
o He also knows browser privacy & security better than most.
Certainly Mayayana knows browser features far better than I do.
o However, what I do with browsers is _simple_ and _elegant_
Each browser is carefully set up for one task and one task only:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hjjVXkq5/taskbarmenu07.jpg>
As per this philosophy on how to maintain privacy with web browsing:
o Discussion of easy-to-implement privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY>
First, in my browser installation archive, I save all the offline
full non-stub installers for each of a score of free browsers as per:
o Clickable list of full offline installers to all free browsers
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/krNaXA-YEbw>
Where I keep each full offline installer "where it belongs"
o {X}:\installers\browsers\{name of browser}\
Note: I never use plurals; but I insert plurals here for readability.
Second, I install each browser "where it belongs" (like any other app)
o {X}:\apps\browsers\{name of browser}\
Third, the menu is copied from the archive, re-used for years on end:
o {X}:\menu\browsers\{name of browser}\
Fourth, each browser is set up for one specific task only.
o This is where the "security" of the browser is taken into account.
> So the ideal is to keep software on C, keep data
> on other drives, and back up both. Then if you
> have trouble you haven't lost contracts, photos, etc.
> And if you used disk image backup then you can
> also get your software/settings back easily.
In my case, the ideal is to keep software in an off-disk archive
o Such that re-installation of software is always a trivial event
The ideal is to keep menus in a consistent archive
o Such that re-installation of menus is a trivial copy event
The ideal is to then set up the software as the user sees fit
o Which is mainly how my "ideal" differs from Mayayana's ideal
In Mayayana's suggestion, the "disk image backup" saves your setup
o In my case, I keep a syslog file of the setup for each program
See the off-disk "Win+R > syslog" command implemented in this tutorial:
o Tutorial to implement a syslog command to maintain a USB stick system log
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/HkfHsx6chBk>
The advantage of my "ideal" is that nothing ever pollutes your folders
o And, backup/re-installation is both consistent & virtually trivial
Plus, a re-installation is "cleaner" using my methods
o Because nothing is cloned, particularly not the registry or installation
--
> The installation drive is not the problem. You can
> tell the installer to install to D drive.
As is almost always, if not always the case, Mayayana is consistent:
1. He actually knows microsoft installers far better than do most of us
2. But he's still often wrong because he's rather intuitive & less so empirical
The empirical fact is that with "some" installers, they don't have options
to put your installed files in a "custom" location of the users' choice.
Infamous for that restriction, for example, are many Google products (e.g.,
Chrome, and many of its variants, e.g., Epic & Brave).
As Renee already noted, many Microsoft products also don't provide an
option to install where they belong; but _most_ application installers are
(IMHO) well written in that they allow a "custom" install location choice.
> But many programs
> will then use your personal folder to save files, without
> asking you.
Mayayana is correct in stating that the "data files" are often stored in a
hard-coded location set by poorly written programs.
As all of us know, "some" programs have settings for where you'd like to
store your data, while others have no such option in their menu system.
And "most" (it seems) allow you to install the program "where it belongs"
o As always "where it belongs" is defined by you!
> Program settings will be in the Registry or
> your App Data folder. That's all on C drive. In most
> cases there's no choice. Unless you run as admin or
> change folder permissions, software is unable to write
> to other locations, such as the program folder.
This is correct, IMHO.
> So it's really not a good idea to do it that way.
I disagree with the overall solution assessment by Mayayana.
o For decades, I've been successful controlling "most" programs.
1. I install the program "where it belongs"
2. I archive & set Taskbar pullout menus to the same consistent hierarchy
3. I "try" to get the programs to store data "where it belongs"
As always, the user defines the value of "where it belongs"
o But, for me, data belongs in "{X}:\data\{my hierarchy}\"
Notice that backup & reuse is trivial as it's simply a "copy"
a. The data hierarchy is the most important to back up
b. The menu hierarchy is (in my case) inside the data hierarchy
c. Nothing else, in practice, needs to be backed up (in most cases)
When you re-install on another machine, it's 3 simple steps:
A. You install all programs from your installation hierarchy
B. You install them into the same consistent "apps" hierarchy
C. You _copy_ the menu over which then works right out of the box!
This philosophy is described in further detail over here:
o Tutorial for KISS setup of Windows programs for easy use & re-install
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
> Better to buy a bigger SSD and clone to it.
I disagree that "cloning" is a good solution.
o IMHO, a good solution is to organize for re-use (as shown above).
> It might also be possible to move your documents folder to D.
> I'm not sure. I've never used that folder.
I don't think it matters _which_ drive the data is stored on.
o But I generally install data on the "C" drive so I'd have to test it
> Example: If you install Firefox it will write a lot of
> stuff to 2 different App Data folders. It's a design
> meant for security and multiple users, but the down
> side is that only experts can back up their Firefox
> settings, and if you have to reinstall at some point,
> the Firefox program on D drive will lose all of its
> configuration files.
Mayayana knows browser set up better than almost all of us.
o He also knows browser privacy & security better than most.
Certainly Mayayana knows browser features far better than I do.
o However, what I do with browsers is _simple_ and _elegant_
Each browser is carefully set up for one task and one task only:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hjjVXkq5/taskbarmenu07.jpg>
As per this philosophy on how to maintain privacy with web browsing:
o Discussion of easy-to-implement privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY>
First, in my browser installation archive, I save all the offline
full non-stub installers for each of a score of free browsers as per:
o Clickable list of full offline installers to all free browsers
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/krNaXA-YEbw>
Where I keep each full offline installer "where it belongs"
o {X}:\installers\browsers\{name of browser}\
Note: I never use plurals; but I insert plurals here for readability.
Second, I install each browser "where it belongs" (like any other app)
o {X}:\apps\browsers\{name of browser}\
Third, the menu is copied from the archive, re-used for years on end:
o {X}:\menu\browsers\{name of browser}\
Fourth, each browser is set up for one specific task only.
o This is where the "security" of the browser is taken into account.
> So the ideal is to keep software on C, keep data
> on other drives, and back up both. Then if you
> have trouble you haven't lost contracts, photos, etc.
> And if you used disk image backup then you can
> also get your software/settings back easily.
In my case, the ideal is to keep software in an off-disk archive
o Such that re-installation of software is always a trivial event
The ideal is to keep menus in a consistent archive
o Such that re-installation of menus is a trivial copy event
The ideal is to then set up the software as the user sees fit
o Which is mainly how my "ideal" differs from Mayayana's ideal
In Mayayana's suggestion, the "disk image backup" saves your setup
o In my case, I keep a syslog file of the setup for each program
See the off-disk "Win+R > syslog" command implemented in this tutorial:
o Tutorial to implement a syslog command to maintain a USB stick system log
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/HkfHsx6chBk>
The advantage of my "ideal" is that nothing ever pollutes your folders
o And, backup/re-installation is both consistent & virtually trivial
Plus, a re-installation is "cleaner" using my methods
o Because nothing is cloned, particularly not the registry or installation
--
Arlen Holder
Dec 29, 2020, 1:40:41 PM12/29/20
to
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:57:19 -0600, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> Even though I have been using my method for decades with all programs on
> D, Now as Mayayana says, with the availability of large SSDs and NVMe
> drives at a reasonable price it is now feasible and practical to install
> all programs on C:\.
I agree with Rene that, nowadays, I don't know of any good reason to put
the program installation and/or program data on a separate partition.
Do you?
The key suggestions I would made, from a strategic standpoint are...
1. Save your full offline installers in a consistent hierarchy, such as:
o X:\software\archivers
o X:\software\browsers
o X:\software\cleaners
o X:\software\databases
o X:\software\editors
o X:\software\finance
o X:\software\games
o X:\software\hardware
o X:\software\network
o X:\software\os
o X:\software\telecom
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals; but I added them here for readability.
2. Install each program into the same consistent hierarchy, such as:
o C:\apps\archivers
o C:\apps\browsers
o C:\apps\cleaners
o C:\apps\databases
o C:\apps\editors
o C:\apps\finance
o C:\apps\games
o C:\apps\hardware
o C:\apps\network
o C:\apps\os
o C:\apps\telecom
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals; but I added them here for readability.
3. Maintain a copy of your menu of the same consistent hierarchy, such as:
o C:\data\menus\archivers
o C:\data\menus\browsers
o C:\data\menus\cleaners
o C:\data\menus\databases
o C:\data\menus\editors
o C:\data\menus\finance
o C:\data\menus\games
o C:\data\menus\hardware
o C:\data\menus\network
o C:\data\menus\os
o C:\data\menus\telecom
etc.
NOTE: The same menu can be copied from WinXP to Win7 to Win10, etc.
4. Pin that menu folder to the Taskbar for a cascade accordion style menu:
o Taskbar > menus > archivers
o Taskbar > menus > browsers
o Taskbar > menus > cleaners
o Taskbar > menus > databases
o Taskbar > menus > editors
o Taskbar > menus > finance
o Taskbar > menus > games
o Taskbar > menus > hardware
o Taskbar > menus > network
o Taskbar > menus > os
o Taskbar > menus > telecom
etc.
NOTE: If desired, duplication is easily incorporated into menus.
5. Set up each program to store its program data "where it belongs"
NOTE: In my case, I keep _nothing_ in Windows standard folders
o That's simply because they're utterly polluted by wayward programs.
So, for me, that's C:\data\{whatever hierarchy I want}
o Usually that hierarchy is a "data type" style, but not always:
Note that "data" is archived by file type moreso than by file content:
C:\data\appsettings
C:\data\menus
C:\data\videos
etc.
In summary, if you organize Windows such that you archive the installers
into a consistent hierarchy, and then you install apps into that same
consistent hierarchy, and if you then copy over your menus of the same
consistent hierarchy, then re-use on other machines is nearly trivial.
If you maintain an USB-stick (off disk) syslog (so that it's protected
from disk failures and so that it's portable across machines), then you
can easily reproduce your setup for each installed program (if desired).
IMHO, this is a far better solution to the problem of recovery from disk
failure and re-use of software on another system, than "cloning" would be.
As always, please improve so that all benefit from your experience.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, as always, to voluntarily help all.
> Even though I have been using my method for decades with all programs on
> D, Now as Mayayana says, with the availability of large SSDs and NVMe
> drives at a reasonable price it is now feasible and practical to install
> all programs on C:\.
I agree with Rene that, nowadays, I don't know of any good reason to put
the program installation and/or program data on a separate partition.
Do you?
The key suggestions I would made, from a strategic standpoint are...
1. Save your full offline installers in a consistent hierarchy, such as:
o X:\software\archivers
o X:\software\browsers
o X:\software\cleaners
o X:\software\databases
o X:\software\editors
o X:\software\finance
o X:\software\games
o X:\software\hardware
o X:\software\network
o X:\software\os
o X:\software\telecom
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals; but I added them here for readability.
2. Install each program into the same consistent hierarchy, such as:
o C:\apps\archivers
o C:\apps\browsers
o C:\apps\cleaners
o C:\apps\databases
o C:\apps\editors
o C:\apps\finance
o C:\apps\games
o C:\apps\hardware
o C:\apps\network
o C:\apps\os
o C:\apps\telecom
etc.
NOTE: I don't use plurals; but I added them here for readability.
3. Maintain a copy of your menu of the same consistent hierarchy, such as:
o C:\data\menus\archivers
o C:\data\menus\browsers
o C:\data\menus\cleaners
o C:\data\menus\databases
o C:\data\menus\editors
o C:\data\menus\finance
o C:\data\menus\games
o C:\data\menus\hardware
o C:\data\menus\network
o C:\data\menus\os
o C:\data\menus\telecom
etc.
NOTE: The same menu can be copied from WinXP to Win7 to Win10, etc.
4. Pin that menu folder to the Taskbar for a cascade accordion style menu:
o Taskbar > menus > archivers
o Taskbar > menus > browsers
o Taskbar > menus > cleaners
o Taskbar > menus > databases
o Taskbar > menus > editors
o Taskbar > menus > finance
o Taskbar > menus > games
o Taskbar > menus > hardware
o Taskbar > menus > network
o Taskbar > menus > os
o Taskbar > menus > telecom
etc.
NOTE: If desired, duplication is easily incorporated into menus.
5. Set up each program to store its program data "where it belongs"
NOTE: In my case, I keep _nothing_ in Windows standard folders
o That's simply because they're utterly polluted by wayward programs.
So, for me, that's C:\data\{whatever hierarchy I want}
o Usually that hierarchy is a "data type" style, but not always:
Note that "data" is archived by file type moreso than by file content:
C:\data\appsettings
C:\data\menus
C:\data\videos
etc.
In summary, if you organize Windows such that you archive the installers
into a consistent hierarchy, and then you install apps into that same
consistent hierarchy, and if you then copy over your menus of the same
consistent hierarchy, then re-use on other machines is nearly trivial.
If you maintain an USB-stick (off disk) syslog (so that it's protected
from disk failures and so that it's portable across machines), then you
can easily reproduce your setup for each installed program (if desired).
IMHO, this is a far better solution to the problem of recovery from disk
failure and re-use of software on another system, than "cloning" would be.
As always, please improve so that all benefit from your experience.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, as always, to voluntarily help all.
Arlen Holder
Dec 31, 2020, 1:59:47 PM12/31/20
to
End of year survey for how much storage you typically use
for your Windows installed program files & program data
Happy New Year!
Here's my quick survey of space used (none of which needs backing up)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1z1YYcD5/app01.jpg> ~28 GB installed apps
o <https://i.postimg.cc/kMHspvm3/app02.jpg> ~1 GB Program Data
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L5S1c5NP/app03.jpg> ~2 GB Program Files
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCHKcbyH/app04.jpg> ~18 GB Windows files
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rFVkmTHN/app05.jpg> ~500 GB personal data
Note that I don't willingly store _anything_ in default Microsoft folders
o Which is something I learned in the Win95/WinXP days works rather well
Hence, _anything_ in any default Windows folder can be trashed
o When a new system is set up from scratch
Given I store everything that matters into C:\data, there's nothing
anywhere else on my Windows systems which needs to be backed up at the
annual EOY backup archive.
To be clear, I use a philosophy which, by design, enables this efficiency
For example:
1. All program installers are backed up at the moment they are downloaded
2. Such that they are easily re-installed on the new machine when needed
3. And where a USB-based syslog file is kept of each apps' setting changes
Given the menus and the syslogs and the installers are all maintained at
the time the program is first installed, there's nothing to back up other
than your own personal data (which I keep in, not surprisingly, C:\data).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rFVkmTHN/app05.jpg> ~500 GB personal data
Specifically:
a. Syslogs are maintained on an external USB stick (for use with many PCs)
b. Data is the only folder that matters (it's all you need to archive)
c. Installers are saved at the time of download to external storage
All hierarchies on all machines match for complete consistency:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
In summary, once a year (or so), you copy your "c:\data" & you're done
o Nothing else matters on a typical Windows system if you planned ahead
See also:
o End of year survey for how much storage you typically use for your Windows program files & program data
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/zRPaZw0Og8o>
o Tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosophy
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others & to learn from them.
for your Windows installed program files & program data
Happy New Year!
Here's my quick survey of space used (none of which needs backing up)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1z1YYcD5/app01.jpg> ~28 GB installed apps
o <https://i.postimg.cc/kMHspvm3/app02.jpg> ~1 GB Program Data
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L5S1c5NP/app03.jpg> ~2 GB Program Files
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCHKcbyH/app04.jpg> ~18 GB Windows files
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rFVkmTHN/app05.jpg> ~500 GB personal data
Note that I don't willingly store _anything_ in default Microsoft folders
o Which is something I learned in the Win95/WinXP days works rather well
Hence, _anything_ in any default Windows folder can be trashed
o When a new system is set up from scratch
Given I store everything that matters into C:\data, there's nothing
anywhere else on my Windows systems which needs to be backed up at the
annual EOY backup archive.
To be clear, I use a philosophy which, by design, enables this efficiency
For example:
1. All program installers are backed up at the moment they are downloaded
2. Such that they are easily re-installed on the new machine when needed
3. And where a USB-based syslog file is kept of each apps' setting changes
Given the menus and the syslogs and the installers are all maintained at
the time the program is first installed, there's nothing to back up other
than your own personal data (which I keep in, not surprisingly, C:\data).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rFVkmTHN/app05.jpg> ~500 GB personal data
Specifically:
a. Syslogs are maintained on an external USB stick (for use with many PCs)
b. Data is the only folder that matters (it's all you need to archive)
c. Installers are saved at the time of download to external storage
All hierarchies on all machines match for complete consistency:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/yY74z87s/taskbarmenu06.jpg>
In summary, once a year (or so), you copy your "c:\data" & you're done
o Nothing else matters on a typical Windows system if you planned ahead
See also:
o End of year survey for how much storage you typically use for your Windows program files & program data
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/zRPaZw0Og8o>
o Tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized KISS philosophy
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others & to learn from them.
Arlen Holder
Dec 31, 2020, 2:47:11 PM12/31/20
to
Update:
Part of a well-organized setup is the philosophy of system restore points.
I know some people abhor them, but I find them useful when a system is
destroyed while testing freeware, where system restore points "can" help to
recover from that destruction caused during the freeware testing process.
To that end, for the record, here's what I just sent while making an End of
Year restore point for each of my installed hard disk drives today...
On 30 Dec 2020 16:20:26 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> If the Restore Points are included in the SVI, then nearly all is
> Restore Points, because the 'Current Usage:' of the Restore Points is
> 12.35 GB (according to the System Protection tab of the System
> Properties control panel applet).
Hi Frank,
By way of providing another helpful datapoint, my RPs are about 16GB:
o Win+R > systempropertiesprotection > [Configure]
Unlike the trolls on Usenet, I don't bullshit (I prove what I claim):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FKkC2YjZ/app06.jpg> ~16 GB restore point
In my case, that's only five restore points, which is odd, as I don't
remember deleting any, where I've noticed that whatever is labeled as:
o Windows Module Installer
is, perhaps, deleting all prior restore points (it may be one of my
cleaner programs, e.g., Revo, AdvancedUninstall, iOBit, ZSoft, etc.).
o Win+R > systempropertiesprotection > [System Restore] > [Next]
o [x]Show more restore points
Whatever "Windows Modules Installer" is I don't know though...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hhFVQGJS/app07.jpg> Something deleted my RPs!
In summary, I'm glad you brought up this system restore point space
o As I just noticed "something" is auto-deleting my many restore points!
--
Posted to learn from others and to disseminate knowledge to all who care.
Part of a well-organized setup is the philosophy of system restore points.
I know some people abhor them, but I find them useful when a system is
destroyed while testing freeware, where system restore points "can" help to
recover from that destruction caused during the freeware testing process.
To that end, for the record, here's what I just sent while making an End of
Year restore point for each of my installed hard disk drives today...
On 30 Dec 2020 16:20:26 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> If the Restore Points are included in the SVI, then nearly all is
> Restore Points, because the 'Current Usage:' of the Restore Points is
> 12.35 GB (according to the System Protection tab of the System
> Properties control panel applet).
Hi Frank,
By way of providing another helpful datapoint, my RPs are about 16GB:
o Win+R > systempropertiesprotection > [Configure]
Unlike the trolls on Usenet, I don't bullshit (I prove what I claim):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FKkC2YjZ/app06.jpg> ~16 GB restore point
In my case, that's only five restore points, which is odd, as I don't
remember deleting any, where I've noticed that whatever is labeled as:
o Windows Module Installer
is, perhaps, deleting all prior restore points (it may be one of my
cleaner programs, e.g., Revo, AdvancedUninstall, iOBit, ZSoft, etc.).
o Win+R > systempropertiesprotection > [System Restore] > [Next]
o [x]Show more restore points
Whatever "Windows Modules Installer" is I don't know though...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hhFVQGJS/app07.jpg> Something deleted my RPs!
In summary, I'm glad you brought up this system restore point space
o As I just noticed "something" is auto-deleting my many restore points!
--
Posted to learn from others and to disseminate knowledge to all who care.
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