USB-C cables

[The Real Bev]

The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.

Yes, the earphones work.

Are there different USB-C specs?

--
Cheers, Bev
The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z'
is given by pi*z*z*a

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote :

> Are there different USB-C specs?

Dunno.
o I'll leave it to the likes of nospam to explain the specs...

I can only tell you I ordered a few $20 bags of USB-C cables from Amazon
when I bought a handful of $100 Moto G7 phones way back on Black Friday
last year, and, wouldn't you know it...

An entire $20 bag (I think it was six cables in the bag) was bad.
o Not a single cable worked (yet one or two worked in one direction).

That bad bag arrived first, and it was my _only_ exposure to USB-C at the
time, as the Moto G7 was my first USB-C device (but now I _love_ USB-C).

I decided to risk a "replacement" bag, where all six worked just fine.
o I love the ten foot and six foot USB-C cables the most!

Maybe you got a bad cable?
o Do you have another USB-C device to test the cable against?
--
The beauty of helping each other on Usenet is we all learn more together.

[nospam]

In article <b39obft3pk0qfjjin...@4ax.com>, KenW

<ken...@invalid.net> wrote:

> >Are there different USB-C specs?
>

> Just because they call it usb-c doesn't mean they are all the same.
> Size & connections can be different.

false.

the size is the same (it has to be), however, the wiring might be
different, depending on the function of the cable and/or the device.

for example, thunderbolt 3 uses the same usb-c plug, but not all cables
with usb-c plugs are thunderbolt 3.

[nospam]

In article <r9h7tg$hoa$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.

why not use the adapter that comes with the phone?

> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?

no, but there is noname crap, which may not be fully compliant and may
not even work properly.

best to get the official adapter from google:
<https://store.google.com/us/product/usb_c_headphone_adapter>

apple's adapter, which is slightly cheaper, will also work:
<https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-j
ack-adapter>

or just get usb-c headphones, eliminating the need for an adapter.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/13/2020 09:48 AM, KenW wrote:

> On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:40:14 -0700, The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.

I actually ordered two of them. Neither works.

>>Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>>Are there different USB-C specs?
>

> Just because they call it usb-c doesn't mean they are all the same.
> Size & connections can be different.

So some standards aren't really standards, just suggestions? See sig
below...

--
Cheers, Bev
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the
same manner that fish follow migrating caribou.
-- Paul Tomblin

[NY]

"KenW" <ken...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:b39obft3pk0qfjjin...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:40:14 -0700, The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>>The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>>Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>>Are there different USB-C specs?
>

> Just because they call it usb-c doesn't mean they are all the same.
> Size & connections can be different.

USB-C (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C) defines the size and shape of
the connector, and the allocation of cable wires to the pins (the pinout).
However some cables may deliberately have only the power and not the data
pins wired, so you can charge a phone from an unknown charger in a public
place without the fear that your phone might be accessible to hackers (I've
heard it likened to putting a condom over the phone!). I know there are
Micro-USB cables that have no data lines, and I presume the same is true for
USB-C cables - or maybe you have to buy an adaptor with male USB-C on one
end and female USB-C on the other, and only the power lines wired between.

USB-C not a definition of what speed of USB (1, 2 or 3) can run over the
cable/connector, although since USB-C is fairly knew, I'd expect that most
cables would be designed to support USB-3 data transfer speeds (but check
before buying!).

[nospam]

In article <r9hajh$3n7$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>
> USB-C (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C) defines the size and shape of
> the connector, and the allocation of cable wires to the pins (the pinout).

correct.

> However some cables may deliberately have only the power and not the data
> pins wired, so you can charge a phone from an unknown charger in a public
> place without the fear that your phone might be accessible to hackers (I've
> heard it likened to putting a condom over the phone!).

such cables are non-compliant with the spec, and does not apply to
usb-c and certainly not a headphone adapter, which is what's needed
here.

[NY]

"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:r9hahs$3da$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 05/13/2020 09:48 AM, KenW wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:40:14 -0700, The Real Bev
>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>>adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>>USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>>a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>>money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> I actually ordered two of them. Neither works.
>
>>>Yes, the earphones work.

The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is that you can't
have the phone connected to a power source (and maybe transferring data
between phone and computer) at the same time as you are listening on
headphones. Can a USB hub be connected to a phone to allow more than one
device (including one delivering charge to the phone) to be connected?
Normally a hub is connected to a computer (via rectangular USB-A connectors)
with USB-A outputs to peripherals; what I'm thinking of is a hub that
connects between several peripherals (all with Mini-USB, Micro-USB or USB-C
connectors).

[nospam]

In article <r9hb42$7g3$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is that you can't
> have the phone connected to a power source (and maybe transferring data
> between phone and computer) at the same time as you are listening on
> headphones.

minor issue, since people normally use headphones while out, not near
any power, and audio playback uses relatively little power anyway.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/13/2020 10:35 AM, NY wrote:
> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:r9hahs$3da$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 05/13/2020 09:48 AM, KenW wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:40:14 -0700, The Real Bev
>>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>>>adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>>>USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>>>a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>>>money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>> I actually ordered two of them. Neither works.
>>
>>>>Yes, the earphones work.
>
> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is that you can't
> have the phone connected to a power source (and maybe transferring data
> between phone and computer) at the same time as you are listening on
> headphones. Can a USB hub be connected to a phone to allow more than one
> device (including one delivering charge to the phone) to be connected?

Doesn't seem unreasonable, but I'm not likely to need such a thing.

> Normally a hub is connected to a computer (via rectangular USB-A connectors)
> with USB-A outputs to peripherals; what I'm thinking of is a hub that
> connects between several peripherals (all with Mini-USB, Micro-USB or USB-C
> connectors).

I'm annoyed at myself for not knowing this before I bought the phone.
It probably wouldn't have made a difference since I never listen to
music on a phone (pitiful speakers), but I thought I might want to use
earphones in the hospital. I'll take my Lenovo tablet too, so the
problem is obviated.

Maybe I'll order an adapter from Amazon -- they seem a bit more reliable
than ebay.

--
Cheers, Bev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/13/2020 11:20 AM, KenW wrote:

> With one usb-3 on a phone how can you connect two things ?

When I was hunting for another adapter (ordered one from Amazon that
SAID it would work with a Pixel2) I saw things that had two inputs to a
single USB-C plug but I didn't notice the details.

--
Cheers, Bev
*Are you *sure* there's a hyphen in "anal-retentive?"*

[David Taylor]

On 13/05/2020 17:40, The Real Bev wrote:
> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my
> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?

My Pixel 3 had an earphone adapter in the box.
I'm surprised the Pixel 2 didn't.
I would be very wary of forcing such small connectors.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[nospam]

In article <r9hfhl$n5q$1...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> On 13/05/2020 17:40, The Real Bev wrote:
> > The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> > adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
> > USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> > a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my
> > money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
> >
> > Yes, the earphones work.
> >
> > Are there different USB-C specs?
>
> My Pixel 3 had an earphone adapter in the box.
> I'm surprised the Pixel 2 didn't.

it did.

> I would be very wary of forcing such small connectors.

it's probably the wrong adapter, maybe micro-usb.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is...

IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.

Everyone knows why Apple ditched this basic functionality
o HINT: It wasn't courage or they would have gone USB-C long ago.

The answer is simple: *M*O*N*E*Y*?

Given it's an easily proven fact over 99% of all Android models out there
have this functionality, which basically all iPhones after something around
the iPhone 6s or so simply lack.

Apple uses are used to being squeezed for MONEY...
o They actually _believe_ the MARKETING bullshit (i.e., it's "courageous").

As anyone can tell from nospam's responses, it's all about MONEY.
o The high-end Android players, like Google, can _afford_ to copy Apple.

Anyone would _love_ to have Apple's huge margins.
o Apple makes boatloads of MONEY on people who are basically stupid.

In summary, the only reason to ditch basic functionality is to make MONEY.
o For consumers spending $1000 for a phone, the money isn't their issue.

So _those_ consumers happily (I presume) pay Apple & Google to replace the
missing 3.5mm headphone jack functionality...

And yet, the vast majority of Android devices (over 99%!) have it!
o *How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jacks*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>

Can you spell *M*O*N*E*Y*? :)
--
The difference between apologists & adults is adults comprehend facts.

[Andy Burns]

The Real Bev wrote:

> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter.

My Pix3 came with various accessories (USB-C earphones, a USB-A to USB-C
adapter and a USB-C to 3.5mm jack) doesn't the Pix2 have the same?

> I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my
> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?

Physically no, they should all fit.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/13/2020 11:50 AM, David Taylor wrote:
> On 13/05/2020 17:40, The Real Bev wrote:
>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>
> My Pixel 3 had an earphone adapter in the box.

Mine was 'refurbished' from ebay for $113. It came with a short cable.
Nothing else.

> I'm surprised the Pixel 2 didn't.
> I would be very wary of forcing such small connectors.

Yup.


--
Cheers, Bev
All the toilets were stolen out of the police station.
The police have nothing to go on.

[nospam]

In article <r9hiqs$f6p$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > My Pixel 3 had an earphone adapter in the box.
>
> Mine was 'refurbished' from ebay for $113. It came with a short cable.
> Nothing else.

then it was incomplete.

[sms]

On 5/13/2020 9:40 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my
> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?

Target sells the genuine Google dongle for $6.99
<https://www.target.com/p/g/A-53968163>. So not sure of the upside of
buying an unknown one from some unknown seller.

Think about what's in the $6.99 dongle. A USB device controller. A DAC
and a stereo amplifier for the headphones, a ADC and a mono amplifier
for the microphone. A voltage regulator. Some bypass capacitors. The two
connectors.

Someone did a teardown of the Google dongle at
<https://www.cabledo.com/google-usb-c-digital-to-3-5-mm-headphone-adapter-disassembly/>.

When some phones lost the analog headphone jack they still needed most
of those components inside the phone to support the speakers and
microphone. Now they are duplicated in the dongle. Plus you lose the
ability to charge the phone and use the headphone dongle at the same
time unless you use a wireless charger or something like
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MFJ9VPD>.

Now that I'm long Zoom calls, often using the phone, I appreciate the
analog headphone jack. I accept that my next iPhone and my next Android
phone will probably not have the 3.5mm jack and I'm not thrilled about it.

[VanguardLH]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?

You sure it was a USB-C cable, and not micro-USB?

The physical specifications for USB connectors is well documented and
well known.

https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%20R2.0%20-%20August%202019.pdf
Figure 3-1

If the connectors did not slide together, could be there was an
obstruction, like lint. Since this is for a smartphone, and because
they get stuffed into pockets or even in unsealed carrying cases, ports
can get crap stuck inside them. Also possible is physical abuse. You
mentioned trying to force the cable into the port. With wear or abuse,
the PCB inside the connector can get misaligned, like it is angled, so
its open end is a bit off-center to the cable getting pushed in.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/13/2020 05:50 PM, sms wrote:
> On 5/13/2020 9:40 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>
> Target sells the genuine Google dongle for $6.99
> <https://www.target.com/p/g/A-53968163>. So not sure of the upside of
> buying an unknown one from some unknown seller.

So selfie sticks connect to the phone with an earphone plug? That's
weird. If it doesn't work I'll send it back.

Sorry, I hate Target. Same crap that everybody else sells cheaper. The
store is within walking distance, but I'll drive to Walmart instead.
No, not a waste of money, I stop at Walmart on the way to Costco.

> Think about what's in the $6.99 dongle. A USB device controller. A DAC
> and a stereo amplifier for the headphones, a ADC and a mono amplifier
> for the microphone. A voltage regulator. Some bypass capacitors. The two
> connectors.
>
> Someone did a teardown of the Google dongle at
> <https://www.cabledo.com/google-usb-c-digital-to-3-5-mm-headphone-adapter-disassembly/>.

Interesting.

> When some phones lost the analog headphone jack they still needed most
> of those components inside the phone to support the speakers and
> microphone. Now they are duplicated in the dongle. Plus you lose the
> ability to charge the phone and use the headphone dongle at the same
> time unless you use a wireless charger or something like
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MFJ9VPD>.
>
> Now that I'm long Zoom calls, often using the phone, I appreciate the
> analog headphone jack. I accept that my next iPhone and my next Android
> phone will probably not have the 3.5mm jack and I'm not thrilled about it.

--
Cheers, Bev

"Whatever the correct citation total - five or six - the Deepwater
Horizon's record was exemplary, according to MMS officials, who said
the rig was never on inspectors' informal "watch list" for problem
rigs.
In fact, last year MMS awarded the rig an award for its safety
history."
--AP Article

[NY]

"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:1nx8dwsmlytc5$.dlg@v.nguard.lh...

> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>
> You sure it was a USB-C cable, and not micro-USB?

That is one of the problems with Micro-USB and USB-C: they are very similar
in size and easy to confuse if you are not looking closely to see whether
the plug is asymmetric (parallelogram) in which case it's Micro or symmetric
in which case it's C.

>
> The physical specifications for USB connectors is well documented and
> well known.
>
> https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%20R2.0%20-%20August%202019.pdf
> Figure 3-1
>
> If the connectors did not slide together, could be there was an
> obstruction, like lint.

I made the mistake of having my phone in my trouser pocket while I was doing
some digging up of tree roots in the garden, which required me to get down
in the ground. A bit of soil or leaf got into the Micro-USB socket and after
that the plug wouldn't stay in properly when I charged the phone. I had to
use a fine piece of solid-core wire to probe around the socket, and
eventually a tiny lump of compressed soil dropped out; everything has been
fine since then.

[sms]

On 5/13/2020 9:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

>snip>

> Sorry, I hate Target.  Same crap that everybody else sells cheaper.  The
> store is within walking distance, but I'll drive to Walmart instead. No,
> not a waste of money, I stop at Walmart on the way to Costco.

Here it is at Walmart.com
<https://www.walmart.com/ip/Google-USB-C-Digital-to-3-5-mm-headphone-adapter/439575729>.
More expensive and you have to order it since it's not sold in stores,
but whatever, if you hate Target and want to pay more and wait longer
then it's up to you.

I'm not a big fan of Target either, and like you it's within walking
distance. It's not the prices, it's that they are more of a boutique
store and you can't buy things like auto parts, much bike stuff,
hardware, etc., at Target.

[sms]

On 5/13/2020 9:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 05/13/2020 05:50 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 5/13/2020 9:40 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
>>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>> a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>>
>>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>>
>>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>>
>> Target sells the genuine Google dongle for $6.99
>> <https://www.target.com/p/g/A-53968163>. So not sure of the upside of
>> buying an unknown one from some unknown seller.
>
> So selfie sticks connect to the phone with an earphone plug?  That's
> weird.  If it doesn't work I'll send it back.

Most use Bluetooth

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-13 11:58 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :
>
>> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is...
>
> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.

Should you computer have a floppy disk?

How about a parallel port?

There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately,
it is the consumers who decide when the time is right.

>
> Everyone knows why Apple ditched this basic functionality
> o HINT: It wasn't courage or they would have gone USB-C long ago.

Why are you bringing up Apple?

>
> The answer is simple:          *M*O*N*E*Y*?

How does affect Apple's profit? One more jack? Really?

Space is at a premium in smartphones, and Apple chose to make a change
to reduce the number of jacks in the device.

>
> Given it's an easily proven fact over 99% of all Android models out there
> have this functionality, which basically all iPhones after something around
> the iPhone 6s or so simply lack.

I don't know if that's an "easily proven fact" or not, but I'm betting
that you have done absolutely no checking as to its veracity.

iPhones come with ear buds that work fine with the Lightning connector
and third party Lightning connector ear buds are easily found.

And unlike you, I actually checked that was true before completing this
post:

<https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=lightning+earbuds&crid=28745P901SKJ0&sprefix=lightning+earbuds%2Caps%2C-1&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_13>

>
> Apple uses are used to being squeezed for MONEY...
> o They actually _believe_ the MARKETING bullshit (i.e., it's "courageous").

Apple users are clearly very happy with Apple's products as the extreme
customer loyalty metrics show:

Apple had 74.6% iPhone trade-in brand loyalty, with 12.8% heading to
Samsung, 5.3% to LG.

Samsung had 63.9% trade-in brand loyalty, with 17% heading to Apple, 8%
to LG.

Google had 51.0% trade-in brand loyalty, with the lowest volume heading
to Apple at 10.1%.

LG, Motorola and HTC all fell below 41% brand loyalty at trade-in.

Only 10.8% of HTC respondents stayed loyal, with 32.1% heading to
Samsung, 17.1% to Apple.

Source:
<https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/smartphone-brand-loyalty-during-trade-in-2019/>

>
> As anyone can tell from nospam's responses, it's all about MONEY.
> o The high-end Android players, like Google, can _afford_ to copy Apple.
>
> Anyone would _love_ to have Apple's huge margins.
> o Apple makes boatloads of MONEY on people who are basically stupid.
>
> In summary, the only reason to ditch basic functionality is to make MONEY.
> o For consumers spending $1000 for a phone, the money isn't their issue.
>
> So _those_ consumers happily (I presume) pay Apple & Google to replace the
> missing 3.5mm headphone jack functionality...
>
> And yet, the vast majority of Android devices (over 99%!) have it!
> o *How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jacks*
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>

I'm not really certain that a list of phones from a post made more than
14 months ago that references a list made a further 12 months before the
post says about how things stand today, but it is clear that:

1. No technology goes on forever.

2. Many manufacturers are abandoning the stereo mini-jack as the
connection method for earbuds/earphones.

3. Apple continues to enjoy brand loyalty figures among the highest in
the smartphone business. I challenge you, in fact, to find a smartphone
make with better.

But since you implicitly declare Digital Music News a credible source
(by your use of it in that post), you might be interested to read this
far more recent article from them:

'99% of Americans Don’t Care About the Headphone Jack, Survey Finds'

<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/08/24/headphone-jack-report/>

Do try and remember that this doesn't mean that I find them credible;
they are YOUR pick. :-)

[The Real Bev]

On 05/14/2020 01:39 AM, NY wrote:
> "VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in message
> news:1nx8dwsmlytc5$.dlg@v.nguard.lh...
>> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>>
>>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>>
>>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>>
>> You sure it was a USB-C cable, and not micro-USB?

Yes. Trust me.

> That is one of the problems with Micro-USB and USB-C: they are very similar
> in size and easy to confuse if you are not looking closely to see whether
> the plug is asymmetric (parallelogram) in which case it's Micro or symmetric
> in which case it's C.

I always look. I put a dot of white-out on the short side of the cables
I use so I don't have to put my reading glasses on :-)

>> The physical specifications for USB connectors is well documented and
>> well known.
>>
>> https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%20R2.0%20-%20August%202019.pdf
>> Figure 3-1
>>
>> If the connectors did not slide together, could be there was an
>> obstruction, like lint.
>
> I made the mistake of having my phone in my trouser pocket while I was doing
> some digging up of tree roots in the garden, which required me to get down
> in the ground. A bit of soil or leaf got into the Micro-USB socket and after
> that the plug wouldn't stay in properly when I charged the phone. I had to
> use a fine piece of solid-core wire to probe around the socket, and
> eventually a tiny lump of compressed soil dropped out; everything has been
> fine since then.

They make little dongles to put in the holes to keep them clean, but
they always stick out. Useless.

--
Cheers, Bev
Election 2016:
There's never been a better time to vote libertarian.

[Alan Baker]

For the iPhone, there are adapters which allow you to connect your wired
earbuds AND charge (this is of course in addition to the fact that since
the iPhone 8, all iPhones have supported wireless charging); they don't
cost much.

I would be astonished if the same sort of thing was not available for
USB-C equipped phones.

[Alan Baker]

The little plastic sticks you can buy for cleaning between your teeth
are excellent for this. You typically need to snip off the extremely
thin end, but the rubbery coating helps them grab lint, etc.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/14/2020 05:45 AM, sms wrote:
> On 5/13/2020 9:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
> >snip>
>
>> Sorry, I hate Target. Same crap that everybody else sells cheaper. The
>> store is within walking distance, but I'll drive to Walmart instead. No,
>> not a waste of money, I stop at Walmart on the way to Costco.
>
> Here it is at Walmart.com
> <https://www.walmart.com/ip/Google-USB-C-Digital-to-3-5-mm-headphone-adapter/439575729>.
> More expensive and you have to order it since it's not sold in stores,
> but whatever, if you hate Target and want to pay more and wait longer
> then it's up to you.

Cheaper at Amazon. No hurry. I'd be willing to bet that stamping a G
into the case doesn't make a substantive difference.

> I'm not a big fan of Target either, and like you it's within walking
> distance. It's not the prices, it's that they are more of a boutique
> store and you can't buy things like auto parts, much bike stuff,
> hardware, etc., at Target.

Last time I went there I wanted to buy a bicycle innertube. They didn't
have any.

I used to like discount stores where you could buy pretty much anything
at a reasonable price. Sears was one of those until it decided to move
up in class. Target likewise. Walmart sticks to its roots.

[John McGaw]

On 5/13/2020 12:40 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The USB-C
> connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without a
> micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who refunded my money
> immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>
> Yes, the earphones work.
>
> Are there different USB-C specs?
>

AFAIK the dimensions of the external physical shell of the USB-C connector
is fixed. The problem might be that tolerances get in the way. If the
connector on the cable is a bit on the large size it might not be easy to
fit. If the connector on the phone is a bit on the small size it might not
be an easy fit. If they both err in the "wrong" direction then it might be
impossible to fit them -- or they might actually be too loose. No
mass-manufactured item adheres perfectly to specifications although it
might happen occasionally by random chance.

I have several standard USB-A to USB-C cables, all high quality
heavy-braided units and even with those there is a noticeable difference in
fit. My USB-C earbuds are seriously tight in my Pixel 3 and the little
connector is so smooth that I fear my fingers slipping some day and ripping
the cable apart so I'm extra careful with it -- they really should have
some sort of texturing on the connector body.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

[John McGaw]

Didn't your Pixel 2 come with a dongle? My Pixel 3 did.

[nospam]

In article <r9k5jl$9to$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cheaper at Amazon. No hurry. I'd be willing to bet that stamping a G
> into the case doesn't make a substantive difference.

clearly it does, since had you bought the google adapter instead of
whatever noname adapter you found on ebay, it would have worked first
try.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-14 12:49 p.m., John McGaw wrote:
> On 5/13/2020 12:40 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but
>> without a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who
>> refunded my money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>
>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>>
>
> AFAIK the dimensions of the external physical shell of the USB-C
> connector is fixed. The problem might be that tolerances get in the way.
> If the connector on the cable is a bit on the large size it might not be
> easy to fit. If the connector on the phone is a bit on the small size it
> might not be an easy fit. If they both err in the "wrong" direction then
> it might be impossible to fit them -- or they might actually be too
> loose. No mass-manufactured item adheres perfectly to specifications
> although it might happen occasionally by random chance.

See Tolerance and Allowance:

'Often the terms allowance and tolerance are used inaccurately and are
improperly interchanged in engineering contexts. This is logical because
both words generally can relate to the abstract concept of permission —
that is, of a limit on what is acceptable. However, in engineering,
separate meanings are enforced, as explained below.

A tolerance is the limit of acceptable unintended deviation from a
nominal or theoretical dimension. Therefore, a pair of tolerances, upper
and lower, defines a range within which an actual dimension may fall
while still being acceptable.

In contrast, an allowance is a planned deviation from the nominal or
theoretical dimension.'

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allowance_(engineering)#Confounding_of_the_engineering_concepts_of_allowance_and_tolerance>

[VanguardLH]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> They make little dongles to put in the holes to keep them clean, but
> they always stick out. Useless.

Does the USB-C port protector plug look like below?

https://tinyurl.com/y8k3lg3p
https://tinyurl.com/yadzwq8l

They stick out so you can get your fingernails to grab onto something
when you want to remove them. If they make the cover end too thin, it
will just rip off when you pry out the plug. Then the complaint would
be they can be used only a couple times because they get damaged on
removal. How are you going to extract them if you cannot grab them?

Some do stick out more than others, like:

https://tinyurl.com/ycuzp65x

That one has an o-ring to better seal the port, like from water.
However, if your phone is water-resistant, so is the USB port. If your
phone is not water-resistant, you don't care about water getting in
through the USB port because the water will get in between the half
shells snapped together, earphone jack, volume buttons, and elsewhere.
Those are also magnetic heads to allow charging. Just get the silicone
port protectors. They probably don't stick out out more than the volume
buttons.

[The Real Bev]

On 05/14/2020 11:31 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-05-13 11:58 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>> In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :
>>
>>> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is...
>>
>> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
>> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
>
> Should you computer have a floppy disk?

It can if you want one. I copied off the essential contents of my
floppies to my HD a long time ago.

> How about a parallel port?

Likewise, but some of us called them Centronics ports. FWIW, Centronics
dot-matrix printers were NOT bulletproof.

> There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately,
> it is the consumers who decide when the time is right.

$1 earbuds work just fine and don't need recharging. If you lose them
you can buy another set for a buck. Same with reading glasses. No need
to cry. I've bought cars that ran for YEARS for less than a set of
bluetooth earbuds.

>> In summary, the only reason to ditch basic functionality is to make MONEY.
>> o For consumers spending $1000 for a phone, the money isn't their issue.

Or maybe it is, but they're too stupid to know.

> '99% of Americans Don’t Care About the Headphone Jack, Survey Finds'
>
> <https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/08/24/headphone-jack-report/>

I didn't until I didn't have one. Suddenly I anticipate the possibility
of wanting to listen to my phone in the hospital without bothering
anyone else.

I've got a converter in the trunk of my car that I've never used, but I
still want it.


--
Cheers, Bev
Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough.

[The Real Bev]

Selfie sticks? I'd be ashamed to use one.

Earbuds? Yeah, but then I'd have one more thing to keep charged, and
bluetooth is battery-hungry anyway. I keep a smallish charging unit in
my purse, and it's a nuisance to keep it charged in case I ever need it
-- which I haven't in maybe 5 years.

Which reminds me...

--
Cheers, Bev
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared
not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I
ever said it." -- T. Lehrer

[The Real Bev]

On 05/14/2020 02:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> They make little dongles to put in the holes to keep them clean, but
>> they always stick out. Useless.
>
> Does the USB-C port protector plug look like below?
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y8k3lg3p
> https://tinyurl.com/yadzwq8l

Ah. Those are fine. The only ones I'd seen (without actually looking
for them) had beads and rhinestone dangles and crap -- phonejewelry
designed for pre-teen girls or something.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-14 2:31 p.m., The Real Bev wrote:
> On 05/14/2020 11:31 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-05-13 11:58 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :
>>>
>>>> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is...
>>>
>>> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
>>> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
>>
>> Should you computer have a floppy disk?
>
> It can if you want one. I copied off the essential contents of my
> floppies to my HD a long time ago.

I know all about "can", and I asked about "should".

Do you think computer manufacturers should still be giving you a floppy
disk drive?

That's rhetorical.

>
>> How about a parallel port?
>
> Likewise, but some of us called them Centronics ports.  FWIW, Centronics
> dot-matrix printers were NOT bulletproof.

Likewise.

>
>> There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately,
>> it is the consumers who decide when the time is right.
>
> $1 earbuds work just fine and don't need recharging.  If you lose them
> you can buy another set for a buck.  Same with reading glasses.  No need
> to cry.  I've bought cars that ran for YEARS for less than a set of
> bluetooth earbuds.

Who said anything about using Bluetooth? An adapter from USB-C to 3.5mm
stereo can be acquired for less than $5.

>
>>> In summary, the only reason to ditch basic functionality is to make
>>> MONEY.
>>> o For consumers spending $1000 for a phone, the money isn't their issue.
>
> Or maybe it is, but they're too stupid to know.

I'm not going to address things I didn't say.

>
>> '99% of Americans Don’t Care About the Headphone Jack, Survey Finds'
>>
>> <https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/08/24/headphone-jack-report/>
>
> I didn't until I didn't have one.  Suddenly I anticipate the possibility
> of wanting to listen to my phone in the hospital without bothering
> anyone else.

You've got a USB C connection, right?

Quit whining and...

...GET...

...AN...

...ADAPTER.
>
>

[NY]

"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:r9k35k$oe9$1...@dont-email.me...

>> That is one of the problems with Micro-USB and USB-C: they are very
>> similar
>> in size and easy to confuse if you are not looking closely to see whether
>> the plug is asymmetric (parallelogram) in which case it's Micro or
>> symmetric
>> in which case it's C.
>
> I always look. I put a dot of white-out on the short side of the cables I
> use so I don't have to put my reading glasses on :-)

I've bought various cables from Anker over the years - either as I've needed
additional ones or to replace ones which have failed close to the Micro-USB
end of the cable.

Until recently, Anker used to put their white "A" logo on one side of the
plug - always the same side - and I learned which way it should face when
plugging the cable into my phone. The last batch I bought didn't have such a
symbol, so I did the same as you: put a dab of Tipp-Ex white-out on the
plug.

Being symmetrical, USB-C plugs don't need such an orientation symbol.

[NY]

"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
news:r9k2pq$mcf$1...@dont-email.me...

>> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
>> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
>
> Should you computer have a floppy disk?
>
> How about a parallel port?
>
> There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately, it
> is the consumers who decide when the time is right.

It's rather disingenuous to say that the consumers decide. The truth is that
the manufacturers impose the change and the only choice the customer gets is
to buy one manufacturer's product or another. Many times you want one
specific product because of many other advantages it has, and have to put up
with the downside such as no CD/DVD drive, no line in (as opposed to mike
in) socket.

Manufacturers are gradually removing ports without providing replacements -
other than bluetooth - so you end up having to buy free-standing USB
peripherals for a DVD drive (not only installing software but also playing
DVD films), a decent sound "card" with line in as well as mic in and line
out/headphone. And then you need to remember to carry all the peripherals
and adaptors on the off-chance that you might need them.

I don't miss floppy drives, ZIP drives, RS232 and Centronics ports, because
USB is a better replacement.

But simple analogue headphones and microphones are the lowest common
denominator which "just work" without batteries, installation of device
drivers etc, and don't need manual intervention to fix a broken
pairing/connection as I find I have to do quite often with bluetooth devices
such as headsets, earphones or the connection to car audio. You can look at
a phone to try to repair a lost connection if you're sat at home, walking,
on a train etc - but you can't do that if you're driving. It is annoying to
be half way through listening to an audio book as I'm driving and the
connection drops out, especially if it happens on a motorway/freeway where I
can't just stop safely at the side of the road to fix it.


The problem is that when you buy a new phone or laptop to replace an
existing one, you need to consider whether any of the peripherals that you
connect to it (by cable or by bluetooth) also need replacing.

There is a fine line between innovation and backwards compatibility. If the
cost of providing the extra ports is minimal, I'd favour the approach of
"only ever *add* functionality; never *remove* older
technology/functionality".

Microsoft's attitude to the changes between Windows 7 and Windows 8 / 10 is
a case in point: they added their new so-called improved start menu, and
removed the old one instead of leaving it in for the people who prefer not
to have to change the way they work just because they need a new computer.

[nospam]

In article <r9lnbv$v3t$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
> >> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
> >
> > Should you computer have a floppy disk?
> >
> > How about a parallel port?
> >
> > There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately, it
> > is the consumers who decide when the time is right.
>
> It's rather disingenuous to say that the consumers decide. The truth is that
> the manufacturers impose the change and the only choice the customer gets is
> to buy one manufacturer's product or another. Many times you want one
> specific product because of many other advantages it has, and have to put up
> with the downside such as no CD/DVD drive, no line in (as opposed to mike
> in) socket.

it's not disingenuous at all.

manufacturers make whatever technology allows and customers choose to
buy it or not buy it.

if sales drop, then the manufacturers will rethink their decision.

if sales go up, then their decision was correct.

ultrabooks, which were among the first to not have a cd/dvd drive, sold
*very* well. users wanted a thin and lightweight laptop rather than
have a dvd drive they did not use.

> Manufacturers are gradually removing ports without providing replacements -
> other than bluetooth - so you end up having to buy free-standing USB
> peripherals for a DVD drive (not only installing software but also playing
> DVD films), a decent sound "card" with line in as well as mic in and line
> out/headphone. And then you need to remember to carry all the peripherals
> and adaptors on the off-chance that you might need them.

old ports are replaced with better and more capable ones.

dvd drives are no longer needed, since software and movie distribution
is done via the internet.

> I don't miss floppy drives, ZIP drives, RS232 and Centronics ports, because
> USB is a better replacement.

exactly.

> But simple analogue headphones and microphones are the lowest common
> denominator which "just work" without batteries, installation of device
> drivers etc, and don't need manual intervention to fix a broken
> pairing/connection as I find I have to do quite often with bluetooth devices
> such as headsets, earphones or the connection to car audio. You can look at
> a phone to try to repair a lost connection if you're sat at home, walking,
> on a train etc - but you can't do that if you're driving. It is annoying to
> be half way through listening to an audio book as I'm driving and the
> connection drops out, especially if it happens on a motorway/freeway where I
> can't just stop safely at the side of the road to fix it.

headphones still 'just work' without batteries and bluetooth doesn't
drop if the phone is in your pocket, which it would be while walking or
taking the train.

> The problem is that when you buy a new phone or laptop to replace an
> existing one, you need to consider whether any of the peripherals that you
> connect to it (by cable or by bluetooth) also need replacing.

old peripherals work just fine.

worst case, you buy a new cable or an adapter, which might even be
included with the new phone or laptop.

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:150520200610045503%nos...@nospam.invalid...

>
> dvd drives are no longer needed, since software and movie distribution
> is done via the internet.

So if you have software that it distributed on CD/DVD or you have a
collection of DVD films (and maybe poor or no internet while you are
mobile), then you have to buy an additional device which is more cumbersome
than having one built in. I'm sure I'm not alone in want to own a copy of a
DVD that I can play wherever I am, as many times as I like, without having
to maintain a subscription to Netflix etc or else to pay each time I view
the film.

By all means make cut-down ultra-light laptops for those people who want
them, but don't restrict the range of full-spec laptops for those people who
want them. I'm looking for a laptop to replace mine, but it's hard to find
one that has a DVD drive and a removable/replaceable battery, as an
affordable price.

The battery issue is a real problem. For each of the 5 laptops I've owned,
going back to one running Windows 98 (so probably bought in the late 90s),
the battery has lasted about 2 - 2.5 years before losing its ability to hold
any charge. With a removable battery, it is possible to replace it with a
new one - either original manufacturer or third party. But if the battery is
inaccessible inside the case, then once the battery stops holding charge,
the laptop needs to be sent away to have a battery replaced - or else the
whole laptop needs to be replaced. I hate the throwaway society!

> headphones still 'just work' without batteries and bluetooth doesn't drop
> if the phone is in your pocket, which it would be while walking or taking
> the train.

Your experience of bluetooth and mine are evidently different. I find that
headphones can lose connection even when they are in range, or they fail to
re-connect if you go out of range and then come back in - eg listening to
your phone in a car, get out of the car, then get back in later: devices
connect but then disconnect soon after. I presume in a crowded place with a
lot of people using bluetooth there will be issues with interference between
different point-to-point connections, in the same way that mobile phones can
experience network congestion at times.

[nospam]

In article <r9lugk$bim$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> > dvd drives are no longer needed, since software and movie distribution
> > is done via the internet.
>
> So if you have software that it distributed on CD/DVD or you have a
> collection of DVD films (and maybe poor or no internet while you are
> mobile), then you have to buy an additional device which is more cumbersome
> than having one built in. I'm sure I'm not alone in want to own a copy of a
> DVD that I can play wherever I am, as many times as I like, without having
> to maintain a subscription to Netflix etc or else to pay each time I view
> the film.

there's no need for a netflix subscription or an additional device.

if you buy a movie for downloading, you can watch it as many times as
you want, at no additional cost.

a *lot* of movies can be stored on the internal drive, without needing
to carry a case of dvds.

> By all means make cut-down ultra-light laptops for those people who want
> them, but don't restrict the range of full-spec laptops for those people who
> want them. I'm looking for a laptop to replace mine, but it's hard to find
> one that has a DVD drive and a removable/replaceable battery, as an
> affordable price.

because people don't want that anymore. they aren't buying it in the
numbers where it's profitable for a company to make them.

> The battery issue is a real problem. For each of the 5 laptops I've owned,
> going back to one running Windows 98 (so probably bought in the late 90s),
> the battery has lasted about 2 - 2.5 years before losing its ability to hold
> any charge. With a removable battery, it is possible to replace it with a
> new one - either original manufacturer or third party. But if the battery is
> inaccessible inside the case, then once the battery stops holding charge,
> the laptop needs to be sent away to have a battery replaced - or else the
> whole laptop needs to be replaced. I hate the throwaway society!

batteries have come a long, long way since the 90s.

modern laptop batteries are typically rated to last 5 years at 80%
capacity, which for something that originally ran for 8-10 hours per
charge, is still extremely usable.

5 years is a long time to keep a laptop, likely replaced because it's
no longer able to run the latest apps at a reasonable speed or at all,
not because of a dead battery.

however, if the battery does need to be replaced, it's easy to do, it
just needs a screwdriver rather than a fingernail. for something that
might need to be done maybe once in the lifetime of the product, it's
not a big deal. for those less technically inclined, it can be done at
a repair shop while you wait.

> > headphones still 'just work' without batteries and bluetooth doesn't drop
> > if the phone is in your pocket, which it would be while walking or taking
> > the train.
>
> Your experience of bluetooth and mine are evidently different. I find that
> headphones can lose connection even when they are in range, or they fail to
> re-connect if you go out of range and then come back in - eg listening to
> your phone in a car, get out of the car, then get back in later: devices
> connect but then disconnect soon after.

get better bluetooth headphones.

bluetooth 4 and certainly bluetooth 5 will easily handle at least 100
foot distances without dropping.

if you do wander outside of its range, it will automatically reconnect
when you return.

> I presume in a crowded place with a
> lot of people using bluetooth there will be issues with interference between
> different point-to-point connections, in the same way that mobile phones can
> experience network congestion at times.

not an issue whatsoever, for either one.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

> Being symmetrical, USB-C plugs don't need such an orientation symbol.

I have to admit, even though Apple is _rock bottom_ on R&D spending % of
all large tech companies (i.e., *Apple is high marketing/low R&D*), there
are a few key "innovations" that Apple has pioneered that the industry
later copied, which benefited us all.

1. *Apple gave us the iPod interface* (which nobody copied, it seems)
(where I ditched my Panasonic MP3 players for iPods for years)
2. *Apple gave us the fantastic touch homescreen* Android copied (& improved!)
(unfortunately, that design _never_ improved from a decade ago!)
3. *Apple gave us the reversible power cable*
(which I am happy to be a proud owner of reversible USB-C cables)

Of course, Apple also gave us its "iTunes" abomination...
(and the sdcard-free phone which is another abomination for the consumer).
--
Apple is the lowest (by far) of tech companies on R&D spending by %.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-15 7:06 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :
>
>> Being symmetrical, USB-C plugs don't need such an orientation symbol.
>
> I have to admit, even though Apple is _rock bottom_ on R&D spending % of
> all large tech companies (i.e., *Apple is high marketing/low R&D*), there
> are a few key "innovations" that Apple has pioneered that the industry
> later copied, which benefited us all.

Now they're "rock bottom", Liar?

Is that in a world where you get to define what is a "large tech company"?

>
> 1. *Apple gave us the iPod interface* (which nobody copied, it seems)
> (where I ditched my Panasonic MP3 players for iPods for years)


> 2. *Apple gave us the fantastic touch homescreen* Android copied (&
> improved!)

Android copied it.

>   (unfortunately, that design _never_ improved from a decade ago!)
> 3. *Apple gave us the reversible power cable*
>   (which I am happy to be a proud owner of reversible USB-C cables)
> Of course, Apple also gave us its "iTunes" abomination... (and the
> sdcard-free phone which is another abomination for the consumer).

Many, many consumers feel differently about that.

But daring to disagree with you, you declare them all to be dupes...

...despite the fact that they continue to buy Apple products; displaying
the kind of brand loyalty that makes most other companies envious.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-15 2:28 a.m., NY wrote:
> "Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
> news:r9k2pq$mcf$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
>>> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
>>
>> Should you computer have a floppy disk?
>>
>> How about a parallel port?
>>
>> There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and
>> ultimately, it is the consumers who decide when the time is right.
>
> It's rather disingenuous to say that the consumers decide. The truth is
> that the manufacturers impose the change and the only choice the
> customer gets is to buy one manufacturer's product or another. Many
> times you want one specific product because of many other advantages it
> has, and have to put up with the downside such as no CD/DVD drive, no
> line in (as opposed to mike in) socket.

It's not disingenuous at all. It is the absolute reality of what happens
in the marketplace except when one company has a complete monopoly perhaps.

Make a product and if people don't like your choices...

...they'll buy something else.

>
> Manufacturers are gradually removing ports without providing
> replacements - other than bluetooth - so you end up having to buy
> free-standing USB peripherals for a DVD drive (not only installing
> software but also playing DVD films), a decent sound "card" with line in
> as well as mic in and line out/headphone. And then you need to remember
> to carry all the peripherals and adaptors on the off-chance that you
> might need them.

Because not enough people to suit YOU don't care enough about having a
built in DVD drive or decent sound card.

>
> I don't miss floppy drives, ZIP drives, RS232 and Centronics ports,
> because USB is a better replacement.

You are making my point for me. YOU don't miss those, so removing those
ports and drives just "makes sense"...

...but remove something that you'd prefer you could still get and it's
evil companies taking away your choices.

>
> But simple analogue headphones and microphones are the lowest common
> denominator which "just work" without batteries, installation of device
> drivers etc, and don't need manual intervention to fix a broken
> pairing/connection as I find I have to do quite often with bluetooth
> devices such as headsets, earphones or the connection to car audio. You
> can look at a phone to try to repair a lost connection if you're sat at
> home, walking, on a train etc - but you can't do that if you're driving.
> It is annoying to be half way through listening to an audio book as I'm
> driving and the connection drops out, especially if it happens on a
> motorway/freeway where I can't just stop safely at the side of the road
> to fix it.

So don't use Bluetooth.

The earbuds that come with every iPhone work without batteries or
installation of device drivers, and I cannot remember ever doing an
installation of a device driver for a Bluetooth anything.

>
>
> The problem is that when you buy a new phone or laptop to replace an
> existing one, you need to consider whether any of the peripherals that
> you connect to it (by cable or by bluetooth) also need replacing.

Yup. Just like with any other purchase, you need to consider whether the
thing your thinking of purchasing meets your needs well enough to
outweigh any other issues.

>
> There is a fine line between innovation and backwards compatibility. If
> the cost of providing the extra ports is minimal, I'd favour the
> approach of "only ever *add* functionality; never *remove* older
> technology/functionality".
>
> Microsoft's attitude to the changes between Windows 7 and Windows 8 / 10
> is a case in point: they added their new so-called improved start menu,
> and removed the old one instead of leaving it in for the people who
> prefer not to have to change the way they work just because they need a
> new computer.

Yup.

And guess what?

People wouldn't BUY it, so they were forced to change the product.

Again, you're making my point.

Accept it: the 3.5mm headphone jack is going away.

[NY]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen...@any1example.com> wrote in message
news:r9m7kj$uqe$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :
>
>> Being symmetrical, USB-C plugs don't need such an orientation symbol.
>
> I have to admit, even though Apple is _rock bottom_ on R&D spending % of
> all large tech companies (i.e., *Apple is high marketing/low R&D*), there
> are a few key "innovations" that Apple has pioneered that the industry
> later copied, which benefited us all.
>
> 1. *Apple gave us the iPod interface* (which nobody copied, it seems)
> (where I ditched my Panasonic MP3 players for iPods for years)
> 2. *Apple gave us the fantastic touch homescreen* Android copied (&
> improved!)
> (unfortunately, that design _never_ improved from a decade ago!)
> 3. *Apple gave us the reversible power cable*
> (which I am happy to be a proud owner of reversible USB-C cables)

Apple does innovate. Unfortunately they tend to produce standards which
other companies don't adopt as industry standards, either because don't want
to adopt them or because they don't want to pay Apple for licensing fees.
Consequently Apple tends to go it alone, and Apple-to-Windows/Android/Linux
compatibility isn't always too good.

Their Lightning connector was good in that it was reversible, but I think
USB-C is better because the pins are shrouded by the metal shield which
means a) they are not exposed and so shorting is less of a problem, and b)
the shroud takes some of the strain if the cable happens to get tugged
sideways: I'm always scares stiff with Lightning of the little bit of PCB
with the contacts on snapping off if the cable gets yanked by accident.

I'm surprised that Mini and Micro USB connectors weren't made reversible. A
good connector is one that is either reversible (180 degree rotational
symmetry) or else is *very* asymmetric so it is obvious at a glance which
way round is goes. Unfortunately a lot of PC connectors (Mini/Micro/USB A/B,
25-pin RS-232, Centronics) are *almost* rectangular (USB-A is completely
rectangular) so the plug will nearly fit the wrong way round and you need to
look to see which way round to fit it. It would help if there was a
convention for orientation of Micro and USB-A sockets - eg always the same
side towards the screen of a phone/tablet, always the same side facing to
the right / top of a tower PC - or else at least a USB symbol on a
consistent side of the USB-A socket. A black insert doesn't show up against
the darkness of the recess inside the USB-A plug and socket.

> Of course, Apple also gave us its "iTunes" abomination... (and the
> sdcard-free phone which is another abomination for the consumer).

Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database from
one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.

[NY]

"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message

news:r9mhl5$i93$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 2020-05-15 2:28 a.m., NY wrote:
>> "Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
>> news:r9k2pq$mcf$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> IMHO, it's ridiculous to _need_ an adapter just to use a 3.5mm jack.
>>>> o It's just ridiculous to not _have_ this most basic of functionality.
>>>
>>> Should you computer have a floppy disk?
>>>
>>> How about a parallel port?
>>>
>>> There is clearly a time to move on from old technology, and ultimately,
>>> it is the consumers who decide when the time is right.
>>
>> It's rather disingenuous to say that the consumers decide. The truth is
>> that the manufacturers impose the change and the only choice the customer
>> gets is to buy one manufacturer's product or another. Many times you want
>> one specific product because of many other advantages it has, and have to
>> put up with the downside such as no CD/DVD drive, no line in (as opposed
>> to mike in) socket.
>
> It's not disingenuous at all. It is the absolute reality of what happens
> in the marketplace except when one company has a complete monopoly
> perhaps.
>
> Make a product and if people don't like your choices...
>
> ...they'll buy something else.

No, they have to make a difficult decision as to which product to buy - do
they buy yours which has lots of advantages but one big disadvantage, or do
they buy the competitor's which as fewer advantages but no big disadvantage.

In those circumstances, they may buy your or they may buy someone else's. If
you are wise, you will take onboard feedback and consumer research, and you
will offer *both* ways of doing something (eg Windows 7 versus Windows 8/10
user interface), in which case you will please everybody.

I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such as no
control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can only defer
installation of *all* updates, without being selective), and the "mess of
tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell and other similar
products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which is usable.

[nospam]

In article <r9oedb$tfn$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> Apple does innovate. Unfortunately they tend to produce standards which
> other companies don't adopt as industry standards, either because don't want
> to adopt them or because they don't want to pay Apple for licensing fees.
> Consequently Apple tends to go it alone, and Apple-to-Windows/Android/Linux
> compatibility isn't always too good.

nonsense.

note that the microsoft surface has a custom connector, whereas
macbooks have standard usb-c ports.

<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/6/25/17502320/microsoft-su
rface-usb-c-dongle-adaptor-release-date-price>
Microsoft零 Surface USB-C dongle will be available to business
customers later this week. A Microsoft spokesperson tells The Verge
that it零 pricing the dongle at $79.99 for commercial users, and it
will be available through typical business purchasing channels on
June 29th. The dongle will plug into the new Surface Pro and Surface
Laptop devices, and provide USB-C support for accessories.

hp spectre has usb-c ports, but only works with hp chargers, even
though usb-c is a standard.

> Their Lightning connector was good in that it was reversible, but I think
> USB-C is better because the pins are shrouded by the metal shield which
> means a) they are not exposed and so shorting is less of a problem, and b)
> the shroud takes some of the strain if the cable happens to get tugged
> sideways: I'm always scares stiff with Lightning of the little bit of PCB
> with the contacts on snapping off if the cable gets yanked by accident.

lightning is designed to snap the plug on the cable if it's torqued,
thereby protecting the host device from damage.

replacing a damaged cable is a *lot* cheaper and easier than replacing
or repairing a phone or tablet with a broken port.

usb-c has a tab inside the host device, which if it breaks, will
require an expensive repair.

> I'm surprised that Mini and Micro USB connectors weren't made reversible.

because the usb consortium thought that reversibility was a bad idea.

it took apple and reversible lightning to convince them otherwise.

>
> > Of course, Apple also gave us its "iTunes" abomination... (and the
> > sdcard-free phone which is another abomination for the consumer).
>
> Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database from
> one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.

also false. it's trivial to move content. all it takes is copying the
music, video and the database, which can even be automated with backup
or migration utilities.

[nospam]

In article <r9oepq$58u$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >> It's rather disingenuous to say that the consumers decide. The truth is
> >> that the manufacturers impose the change and the only choice the customer
> >> gets is to buy one manufacturer's product or another. Many times you want
> >> one specific product because of many other advantages it has, and have to
> >> put up with the downside such as no CD/DVD drive, no line in (as opposed
> >> to mike in) socket.
> >
> > It's not disingenuous at all. It is the absolute reality of what happens
> > in the marketplace except when one company has a complete monopoly
> > perhaps.
> >
> > Make a product and if people don't like your choices...
> >
> > ...they'll buy something else.
>
> No, they have to make a difficult decision as to which product to buy - do
> they buy yours which has lots of advantages but one big disadvantage, or do
> they buy the competitor's which as fewer advantages but no big disadvantage.

that's always been the case.

the only way to get a product that exactly fits your needs is to design
it yourself, which is not an option for most people.

> In those circumstances, they may buy your or they may buy someone else's. If
> you are wise, you will take onboard feedback and consumer research, and you
> will offer *both* ways of doing something (eg Windows 7 versus Windows 8/10
> user interface), in which case you will please everybody.

jack of all trades, master of none.

> I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such as no
> control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can only defer
> installation of *all* updates, without being selective), and the "mess of
> tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell and other similar
> products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which is usable.

if enough people did that, then microsoft will change their design,
exactly what happened with windows 8 and also vista.

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:160520200754063890%nos...@nospam.invalid...

>> Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database
>> from
>> one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.
>
> also false. it's trivial to move content. all it takes is copying the
> music, video and the database, which can even be automated with backup
> or migration utilities.

But the database file iTunes Music Library.xml contains the full pathname to
each music file, so you also need to do a bulk-edit of that database file to
change it to the new location - if the music and database are in different
places, which a lot of people do because (AFAIK) the database has to be in
c:\users\<username>\music\iTunes whereas you may have a large data drive
dedicated to music and videos.

I'm not sure what the iTunes Library.itl file holds, because it's a binary
file which I can't examine in a text editor. Given that it is not a trivial
size (mine is 1.8 MB as opposed to 7.6 MB for the .xml file) it's probably
got a significant amount of data about each track. I wonder if it contains
the path. Maybe it is recompiled on the fly if the .xml file is edited to
match data in a different location.

It might have been better if the database file had contained the paths to
the music files relative to a root folder which is defined in just one
place, though that would have prevented the ability to have different
tracks/albums in different folder trees or drives.

[nospam]

In article <r9ol6i$t68$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >> Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database
> >> from
> >> one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.
> >
> > also false. it's trivial to move content. all it takes is copying the
> > music, video and the database, which can even be automated with backup
> > or migration utilities.
>
> But the database file iTunes Music Library.xml contains the full pathname to
> each music file, so you also need to do a bulk-edit of that database file to
> change it to the new location - if the music and database are in different
> places, which a lot of people do because (AFAIK) the database has to be in
> c:\users\<username>\music\iTunes whereas you may have a large data drive
> dedicated to music and videos.

the xml was for third party apps to use and interact with the music
library and could be regenerated if needed. it's also no longer used.

> I'm not sure what the iTunes Library.itl file holds, because it's a binary
> file which I can't examine in a text editor. Given that it is not a trivial
> size (mine is 1.8 MB as opposed to 7.6 MB for the .xml file) it's probably
> got a significant amount of data about each track. I wonder if it contains
> the path. Maybe it is recompiled on the fly if the .xml file is edited to
> match data in a different location.

the itl file is the actual database, itl being short for itunes library.

> It might have been better if the database file had contained the paths to
> the music files relative to a root folder which is defined in just one
> place, though that would have prevented the ability to have different
> tracks/albums in different folder trees or drives.

in fact, that's what it does.

[Alan Baker]

Which is in essence precisely what I just said.

>
> In those circumstances, they may buy your or they may buy someone
> else's. If you are wise, you will take onboard feedback and consumer
> research, and you will offer *both* ways of doing something (eg Windows
> 7 versus Windows 8/10 user interface), in which case you will please
> everybody.

How well did Windows 8 do?

I happen to know because of what I do for a living that it caused a
large surge in people switching to Macs.

>
> I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such as
> no control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can only
> defer installation of *all* updates, without being selective), and the
> "mess of tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell and other
> similar products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which is usable.

And you go right on making my point.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-16 5:10 a.m., NY wrote:
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:160520200754063890%nos...@nospam.invalid...
>
>>> Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and
>>> database from
>>> one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.
>>
>> also false. it's trivial to move content. all it takes is copying the
>> music, video and the database, which can even be automated with backup
>> or migration utilities.
>
> But the database file iTunes Music Library.xml contains the full
> pathname to each music file, so you also need to do a bulk-edit of that
> database file to change it to the new location - if the music and
> database are in different places, which a lot of people do because
> (AFAIK) the database has to be in c:\users\<username>\music\iTunes
> whereas you may have a large data drive dedicated to music and videos.

'The latest versions of iTunes no longer default to creating an iTunes
Library XML file, which was an iTunes file that allowed various other
apps to interact easily with an iTunes library, and could also serve as
a basis for rebuilding an iTunes library if that were ever needed.

...

How to Create an iTunes Library XML File on Mac or Windows

This process is the same on iTunes for the media player software in both
Mac OS and Windows:

Open iTunes on the computer if you haven’t done so already

Pull down the “iTunes” menu and choose “Preferences” to open iTunes
preferences

Go to the “Advanced” tab in iTunes preferences

Check the box next to “Share iTunes Library XML with other applications”'

[sms]

On 5/16/2020 3:14 AM, NY wrote:

<snip>

> Apple does innovate. Unfortunately they tend to produce standards which
> other companies don't adopt as industry standards, either because don't
> want to adopt them or because they don't want to pay Apple for licensing
> fees. Consequently Apple tends to go it alone, and
> Apple-to-Windows/Android/Linux compatibility isn't always too good.

While they didn't invent it, Apple was the first personal computer
manufacturer to use the 3.5" floppy drives, and other manufacturers
quickly adopted it as well.

Apple developed Firewire which was adopted as IEEE1394 and was popular
for a while.

> Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database
> from one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.

It's not just that it's an abomination, it's that you can't use anything
else on iOS devices.

[nospam]

In article <r9ph42$46e$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> > Yes, iTunes doesn't make it easy to port your music files and database
> > from one computer to another or to merge two music databases into one.
>
> It's not just that it's an abomination, it's that you can't use anything
> else on iOS devices.

false. there are alternatives, however, they don't do anywhere near as
much as itunes, nor are they as easy to use. it's what made the ipod a
huge success.

[The Real Bev]

The $4.52 earphone-to-USB-C adapter from Amazon also has a USB-C socket
so you can listen and charge at the same time. Works fine.


--
Cheers, Bev
He's your god. They're your rules. *You* burn in hell!

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:160520200819320189%nos...@nospam.invalid...

OK. So the itl file is the file which iTunes actually uses to create its
list of tracks and albums, and to tell it where to find the file associated
with each track.

So how would you port iTunes from one PC where the .itl file is in
c:\users\<username>\music\iTunes and the music is in folders below D:\Music
to another PC where the .itl file is in the same folder but you want to put
the music into folders below E:\Media\iTunes-Music? Do you have to put the
music initially in a folder with the same path (temporarily renaming your
drive D to some other letter and mounting the music disc as D) and then use
iTunes to move the music to the new location?

I'm sure in the past I've moved the music to a different drive to one which
contains the .itl etc files and the way that worked for me was to do a bulk
edit of the pathname in the .xml file, which suggests that iTunes does read
it - maybe if it can't find the music in the location that it expects. My
current iTunes is Version 12.10.6.2, but I think I did the moving when I
still had V11.something.

On my PC, the .itl file was created when I last started iTunes, the .xml a
few days ago - probably when I last downloaded a new podcast, and the two
.itdb files were created several years ago. All were modified when iTunes
was started.

Maybe if .xml file exits, it is used and kept up-to-date, but if it doesn't
exist it no longer gets created.



Ah the joys of importing a CD into iTunes and wondering whether someone has
already entered the track names into Apple's master database or whether I'll
have to type them in myself (or correct them when iTunes has matched
completely the wrong CD!) and then share that info as a service to everyone
else.

I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any CD
player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying. Seems a
bit of an oversight. I presume iTunes and other similar software uses the
pattern of track lengths to uniquely (or not!) identify a disc.

[NY]

"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message

news:r9p5cu$lp9$1...@dont-email.me...

>> I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such as
>> no control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can only
>> defer installation of *all* updates, without being selective), and the
>> "mess of tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell and other
>> similar products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which is usable.
>
> And you go right on making my point.

Exactly. My feeling is that no matter what improvements MS make to the
engine, the controls should still be as similar as possible so I can still
"drive" it using my prior knowledge.


I remember the hassle I had getting used to Windows 95 when I was used to
Windows 3/3.11; at least since then, all versions of Windows (98, ME, 2000,
XP, Vista, 7) have been *fairly* similar. Then MS decide to f*** things up
and make everyone learn a new UI. Which bright spark thought up the idea of
the "mess of tiles" instead of a proper start menu and desktop with
commonly-used icons on it? Give that man a lemon - because that's what he
created ;-) It felt as if MS were trying to impose a dumbed-down UI suited
to touch-screen tablets onto all the people who use a full-size screen, a
keyboard and mouse.

Mind you, I'm glad I was able to find Classic Shell and didn't have to
resort to jumping ship completely and moving to Mac. I've recently been
trying Raspbian and Ubuntu (on a Pi and a full-size Intel PC) and that took
less getting used to than I imagined - but then I cut my computing teeth on
UNIX, so the commands, if not the GUI, were familiar. The biggest stumbling
block is really trivial. You'll laugh: it's the fact that Windows dialogue
boxes put the OK button on the left and the Cancel button on the right of
the dialogue box, whereas Raspbian and Ubuntu put them the opposite way
round. Then number of times I've instinctively pressed the left button and
ended up unwittingly cancelling an operation. You'd think I'd eventually
start to remember the New Trick, but then I am a very Old Dog ;-)

[sms]

On 5/16/2020 3:21 AM, NY wrote:

<snip>

> No, they have to make a difficult decision as to which product to buy -
> do they buy yours which has lots of advantages but one big disadvantage,
> or do they buy the competitor's which as fewer advantages but no big
> disadvantage.

Often one big disadvantage clinches the sale for the competition. One
place I worked we sold a very expensive sensor system. The initial setup
required the user to input some NMEA data from an Android App (there was
a workaround but it was very time-consuming). The App was not possible
on an iOS device because iOS doesn't allow access to the NMEA data from
the GPS. We also needed the Bluetooth Serial Port Profile (SPP) which
iOS does not support but Android does. It was no big deal except if a
customer complained that they had no Android device. SPP is widely used
in commercial, industrial, and medical devices so you can't use an iOS
devices to communicate with those devices.

> In those circumstances, they may buy your or they may buy someone
> else's. If you are wise, you will take onboard feedback and consumer
> research, and you will offer *both* ways of doing something (eg Windows
> 7 versus Windows 8/10 user interface), in which case you will please
> everybody.

Many decisions are made knowing that the vast majority of users are
simply going to tolerate both the existing and new drawbacks of a
product and the few users that you lose are going to be far outweighed
by both the cost savings of removing features and the sales of extra
accessories in order to get those features back. No one wanted to lose
the headphone jack on their phone and be forced to use a dongle or
Bluetooth headphones. No one wanted to lose the USB-A ports on their
laptop and be forced to carry around a USB-C to USB-A dongle or hub. No
one wanted to lose the HDMI port and have to carry around a
USB-C/Thunderbolt to HDMI dongle.

> I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such as
> no control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can only
> defer installation of *all* updates, without being selective), and the
> "mess of tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell and other
> similar products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which is usable.

Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
the updates then starts working again. But all in all Windows 10 is a
lot better than 7 or 8.

[nospam]

In article <r9pn1g$8qv$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >
> >> It might have been better if the database file had contained the paths to
> >> the music files relative to a root folder which is defined in just one
> >> place, though that would have prevented the ability to have different
> >> tracks/albums in different folder trees or drives.
> >
> > in fact, that's what it does.
>
> OK. So the itl file is the file which iTunes actually uses to create its
> list of tracks and albums, and to tell it where to find the file associated
> with each track.
>
> So how would you port iTunes from one PC where the .itl file is in
> c:\users\<username>\music\iTunes and the music is in folders below D:\Music
> to another PC where the .itl file is in the same folder but you want to put
> the music into folders below E:\Media\iTunes-Music? Do you have to put the
> music initially in a folder with the same path (temporarily renaming your
> drive D to some other letter and mounting the music disc as D) and then use
> iTunes to move the music to the new location?

the official way is here, although not the only way:
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201625>

the best way to do it is keep the library file *with* the music, in
your case on d:, then you can move the entire hierarchy wherever you
want and it will 'just work', since everything is relative to the
library file. the only extra step is to point itunes at the new
location.

another way is drag the music folder in its new location to itunes and
it will update everything to its new location.

yet another way is get info on a song, which will fail since it can't
be found in its expected location, find it in its new location and
confirm you want to update the rest of the library.

<https://discussions.apple.com/content/attachment/644673040>

> I'm sure in the past I've moved the music to a different drive to one which
> contains the .itl etc files and the way that worked for me was to do a bulk
> edit of the pathname in the .xml file, which suggests that iTunes does read
> it - maybe if it can't find the music in the location that it expects. My
> current iTunes is Version 12.10.6.2, but I think I did the moving when I
> still had V11.something.

that might work, but not advised.

> Ah the joys of importing a CD into iTunes and wondering whether someone has
> already entered the track names into Apple's master database or whether I'll
> have to type them in myself (or correct them when iTunes has matched
> completely the wrong CD!) and then share that info as a service to everyone
> else.

itunes uses gracenote (originally cddb, long ago), not apple's database.

<https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/if-you-dont-see-song-information-
itns2976/mac>
When you insert a CD in your computeršs disc drive (or a SuperDrive
connected to your computer), iTunes finds the CD in the Gracenote
media database on the Internet and displays the name and other track
information for each song.

you can disable the lookup if it's not as accurate as you'd like.

i find that it's mostly right, occasionally needing minor corrections,
however, it still saves a *lot* of typing, although that will depend on
which cds.

> I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
> bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any CD
> player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying. Seems a
> bit of an oversight. I presume iTunes and other similar software uses the
> pattern of track lengths to uniquely (or not!) identify a disc.

because it was designed in the 1970s, long before anyone thought about
music libraries on computers and certainly pocket-sized devices.

[nospam]

In article <r9r6tp$qmo$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Often one big disadvantage clinches the sale for the competition. One
> place I worked we sold a very expensive sensor system. The initial setup
> required the user to input some NMEA data from an Android App (there was
> a workaround but it was very time-consuming). The App was not possible
> on an iOS device because iOS doesn't allow access to the NMEA data from
> the GPS. We also needed the Bluetooth Serial Port Profile (SPP) which
> iOS does not support but Android does. It was no big deal except if a
> customer complained that they had no Android device.

whatever sensor that might have been was poorly designed, assuming the
story is even true, which given your track record, is unlikely.

but assuming it is, it would have been a *lot* easier and more reliable
to use bluetooth le versus the very outdated and difficult to use spp
profile.

> SPP is widely used
> in commercial, industrial, and medical devices so you can't use an iOS
> devices to communicate with those devices.

not anymore it isn't. spp is long obsolete.

the reality is that ios devices are *very* widely used in all of those
sectors, particularly for medical devices, which require reliability
that spp could never provide.

> > In those circumstances, they may buy your or they may buy someone
> > else's. If you are wise, you will take onboard feedback and consumer
> > research, and you will offer *both* ways of doing something (eg Windows
> > 7 versus Windows 8/10 user interface), in which case you will please
> > everybody.
>
> Many decisions are made knowing that the vast majority of users are
> simply going to tolerate both the existing and new drawbacks of a
> product and the few users that you lose are going to be far outweighed
> by both the cost savings of removing features and the sales of extra
> accessories in order to get those features back.

except that features were *added*, and without any need for accessories.

> No one wanted to lose
> the headphone jack on their phone and be forced to use a dongle or
> Bluetooth headphones.

false.

people were using bluetooth headphones long *before* the analogue
headphone jack was removed (they are *extremely* popular). removing
something that wasn't being used does not affect anyone.

there are also headphones in the box that directly connect, *without* a
dongle, so no issues there either.

the reality is that it's not an issue whatsoever.

<https://www.talkandroid.com/343526-headphone-jacks-arent-important-ting-
survery/>
Contrary to angry articles, the headphone jack didnšt even crack the
top 3. In fact, it was one of the least important factors that users
chose, with only 1% of responders saying it mattered. And yes, itšs
easy to say that surveys can be a little inaccurate, but itšs hard to
be that far off the mark, and phone sales also seem to show that
people really donšt care all that much. Apple ditching the headphone
jack hasnšt hurt them at all, and Samsung seems to have had an
extremely strong preorder period for the Galaxy Note 10 despite the
missing headphone jack. Losing the jack sucks, but the average
consumer really doesnšt mind very much.

> No one wanted to lose the USB-A ports on their
> laptop and be forced to carry around a USB-C to USB-A dongle or hub. No
> one wanted to lose the HDMI port and have to carry around a
> USB-C/Thunderbolt to HDMI dongle.

no one wanted to lose serial, parallel or ps/2 ports, but once they saw
the numerous advantages of usb, they quickly stopped complaining.

transitions to new technology can be a hassle, but the benefits are
well worth it.

unfortunately, there are those who complain every step of the way, most
of whom have a financial interest in keeping the status quo.

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:170520200800526700%nos...@nospam.invalid...

>> I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
>> bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any
>> CD
>> player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying.
>> Seems a
>> bit of an oversight. I presume iTunes and other similar software uses the
>> pattern of track lengths to uniquely (or not!) identify a disc.
>
> because it was designed in the 1970s, long before anyone thought about
> music libraries on computers and certainly pocket-sized devices.

The first CD player I saw, in the very early 1980s, had a digital display -
probably vacuum fluorescent - which displayed switchable info such as track
number, length of track, time played so far, time remaining. With a few more
characters and a scrolling display, it could have displayed a track name if
that had been present on the CD.

Surprising that no-one had the foresight to include a few bytes of track
name for each track (and maybe an overall disc name), given that so soon
after CDs were available, the players had the ability to display these
details.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing ;-) If only Beeching and the British
government had been able to see in the 1960s the effect in the 21st century
of all the railway line closures - same caveat applies about hindsight.

[Ken Blake]

On 5/17/2020 4:24 AM, sms wrote:

> Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
> the updates then starts working again.

My wife runs Classic Shell, and it has *never* screwed up. It's fine.

I run Start 10, which I like even more than Classic Shell, and it's only
$4.99. It's updated regularly.

> But all in all Windows 10 is a
> lot better than 7 or 8.

I agree. I like 10 just fine.


--
Ken

[nospam]

In article <r9ri8i$rsc$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>
> >> I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
> >> bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any
> >> CD
> >> player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying.
> >> Seems a
> >> bit of an oversight. I presume iTunes and other similar software uses the
> >> pattern of track lengths to uniquely (or not!) identify a disc.
> >
> > because it was designed in the 1970s, long before anyone thought about
> > music libraries on computers and certainly pocket-sized devices.
>
> The first CD player I saw, in the very early 1980s, had a digital display -
> probably vacuum fluorescent - which displayed switchable info such as track
> number, length of track, time played so far, time remaining. With a few more
> characters and a scrolling display, it could have displayed a track name if
> that had been present on the CD.

likely just an lcd display, but regardless, doing so would have added
substantial cost, both for the players and also for manufacturing the
cds.

> Surprising that no-one had the foresight to include a few bytes of track
> name for each track (and maybe an overall disc name), given that so soon
> after CDs were available, the players had the ability to display these
> details.

it wasn't soon at all. cd-text appeared in the 1990s and not widely
supported.

[Frank Slootweg]

Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/17/2020 4:24 AM, sms wrote:
>
> > Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
> > the updates then starts working again.
>
> My wife runs Classic Shell, and it has *never* screwed up. It's fine.

[N.B. AFAICT, we're actually talking about Classic Start Menu, not
Classic Shell, but let's not nitpick.]

Same here. Anyway, it's a non-issue because Classic Shell is replaced
by Open-Shell and that *is* still being maintained:

'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu'
<https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu>
"Reborn of Classic Shell.
...
Originally Classic Shell by Ivo Beltchev"
[Last fix 3 months ago.]

The old Classic Shell page even points to the replacement, so it's
rather strange that this "not being updated" urban legend continues:

'passionate-coder / Classic-Start'
<https://github.com/passionate-coder/Classic-Start>
"Renamed to NeoClassic-UI then renamed to Open-Shell -
https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu"

And even the links in the ('Settings' and 'Help' of the) 'obsolete'
Classic Shell software *itself* point to the relacement, because they
point to <http://www.classicshell.net> which is still running and which
in turn points to the 'Open-Shell / Open-Shell-Menu' website.

I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!

[...]

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 May 2020 07:51:42 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

>> Classic Shell is not being updated. It seems to screw up after some of
>> the updates then starts working again.
>
>
> My wife runs Classic Shell, and it has *never* screwed up. It's fine.

I too used to use Classic Shell until two things happened:
1. I realized WinXP-style accordion cascade menus are native in Win10
2. Windows updates reversed some of my Classic Shell changes

To be fair to classic shell on both those accusations:
a. Classic Shell did _more_ than just accordion style start menus
b. I also used WinAero Tweaker in those days which M$ reversed in updates

But that was when I was a log younger, in my 70s, young and innocent.
o Now I just copy WinXP start menu to Win10 & it works out of the box

For example:
o Why does anyone bother to install Classic Shell on Windows
if all they want is the WinXP accordion-style sliding cascade Start Menu?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/u0YHG35cE-E/o0zWJ8K9BwAJ>

As I've explained in tutorials on the Win10 ng, I'm likely the only one on
the planet that you know who can do that so easily - where I literally copy
WinXP start menus (the actual files) over to Windows 10 and it works!
o Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows in a well organized
KISS philosopy such that search is never needed & reinstall is trivial
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/i9Cz3POZFCo/4CFxU96ZCwAJ>

PS: Classic Shell has been deprecated, apparently:
o Classic Shell is dead, long live Open Shell
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/73cN_eHk41k/KTECQ45sBgAJ>
--
If all you want is WinXP menus in Windows 10, then it's already native.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 22:47:48 +0100, NY wrote:

> I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
> bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any CD
> player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying.

As an aside, instead of using the Orwellian iTunes abomination, for years I
used the Excel-like freeware SharePod software on the iPods (it wasn't even
installed - it was "portable" software that worked right off the iPod
itself) and basically turned the entire iPod into an Excel-like
spreadsheet.

With SharePod freeware in those days (which I still use today since it's
still on those iPods), you didn't have the Draconian restrictions of iTunes
- you simply copied whatever you wanted from wherever you wanted to
wherever else you wanted - and it didn't matter who owned the iPod).

It just worked.

For years, to automatically line up the ID3 tags to the song & artist, I
used Windows batch freeware MP3 taggers.

That way, in a few minutes, thousands of songs were organized on an iPod,
with names, artists, and genres of my choosing.

This is an example of those freeware batch ID3 taggers:
<https://www.mp3tag.de/en/>

Main features:
Batch Tag Editing Write ID3v1.1, ID3v2.3, ID3v2.4, MP4, WMA, APEv2 Tags and
Vorbis Comments to multiple files at once.

Support for Cover Art Download and add album covers to your files and make
your library even more shiny.

Import from Discogs, freedb, MusicBrainz Save typing and import tags from
online databases like Discogs, freedb, MusicBrainz, and more.

Replace characters or words Replace strings in tags and filenames (with
support for Regular Expressions).

Create Playlists automatically Create and manage playlists automatically
while editing.

Rename files from tags Rename files based on the tag information and import
tags from filenames.

Export to HTML, RTF, CSV Generate nice reports and lists of your collection
based on user-defined templates.

Full Unicode Support User-interface and tagging are fully Unicode
compliant.

Besides these main features Mp3tag offers a variety of other functions and
features ranging from batch export of embedded album covers, over support
for iTunes-specific tags like media type or TV Show settings, to combining
multiple actions into groups that can be applied with a single mouse click.

Supported Audio Formats
Advanced Audio Coding (aac)
Apple Lossless Audio Codec (alac)
Audio Interchange File Format (aif / aifc / aiff)
Direct Stream Digital Audio (dsf)
Free Lossless Audio Codec (flac)
Matroska (mka / mkv)
Monkey's Audio (ape)
Mpeg Layer 3 (mp3)
MPEG-4 (mp4 / m4a / m4b / m4v / iTunes)
Musepack (mpc)
Ogg Vorbis (ogg)
IETF Opus (opus)
OptimFROG (ofr / ofs)
Speex (spx)
Tom's Audio Kompressor (tak)
True Audio (tta)
Windows Media Audio (wma)
WavPack (wv)
WAV (wav)
WebM (webm)
--
Once you use Apple's iTunes, you'll realize what prison rules are like.

[Arlen Holder]

<OT>
What irks me about unnecessary software (some people even _pay_ for such
things!), is how bamboozled most people seem to be about even simple
obvious things like the fact that WinXP style menus never left Windows...
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>

I guess people are basically stupid.
o They'll believe almost anything some marketing guy or salesman claims...

Hence, I feel kind of sorry for those who use needless kludges such as the
Classic Start Menu, because they are apparently fooled into thinking that
Windows doesn't _already_ have the WinXP cascade accordion menu, native.
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2796904winxp_menu_on_win10.jpg>

What most people don't "seem" to know is that if all you want is the WinXP
style accordion cascade menu, then that's _already_ native in Windows 10.

Always was.

The WinXP style menu _never left_ Windows; it just became slightly hidden:
o WinXP: <http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/5364242winxp_menu_example01.jpg>
o Win10: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2635699winxp_menus_on_win10.jpg>

The sad thing is that only stupid people _thought_ it left Windows...
o What's worse, that's a _lot_ of people who are ignorant, sadly so.

> I wish all 'abandoned' software would fail so graciously!

By way of similar example, TrueCrypt freeware failed in a way that
Veracrypt freeware simply took over where TrueCrypt left off, even down to
using most of the commands.
</OT>
--
WinXP menus, IMHO, never left Windows & therefore are still there in Win10.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 May 2020 19:34:10 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> For years, to automatically line up the ID3 tags to the song & artist, I
> used Windows batch freeware MP3 taggers.

Forgot to mention the ID3 batch tagger works for MacOS also.

The use model is the epitome of functionality, versatility, & ease of use.
a. Connect any device from anyone & anywhere you like on your computer
b. Automatically consistently tag those MP3 files how you like them tagged
c. Start SharePod on any iPod to slide any desired MP3 file back & forth

Note the batch ID3 taggers can quickly tag tens, hundreds, or even
thousands of MP3 files _automagically_ EXACTLY how you like them tagged.

So they're all consistent for your iPod (or MP3 player of your choice).
o It just works.

As for populating any iPod on the planet with those now-tagged MP3 files,
that was also trivial... you just plugged in any number of iPods from any
number of people (i.e., the AppleID is just a purely meaningless string) on
any computer and slid the MP3 files back and forth however you liked.

I rarely use those iPods, but they _still_ have that SharePod freeware on
them, since SharePod just works even today, just as it did years ago.
--
Unlike the iTunes abomination, there are no prison rule restrictions.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.05.20 um 23:38 schrieb The Real Bev:
> On 05/14/2020 05:50 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 5/13/2020 9:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 05/13/2020 05:50 PM, sms wrote:
>>>> On 5/13/2020 9:40 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>>>>> adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
>>>>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
>>>>> a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
>>>>> money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>>>>
>>>> Target sells the genuine Google dongle for $6.99
>>>> <https://www.target.com/p/g/A-53968163>. So not sure of the upside of
>>>> buying an unknown one from some unknown seller.
>>>
>>> So selfie sticks connect to the phone with an earphone plug? That's
>>> weird. If it doesn't work I'll send it back.
>>
>> Most use Bluetooth
>
> Selfie sticks? I'd be ashamed to use one.

+1; something for teenagers.

[David Taylor]

On 18/05/2020 08:43, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 14.05.20 um 23:38 schrieb The Real Bev:

[]

>> Selfie sticks? I'd be ashamed to use one.
>
> +1; something for teenagers.

I bought one recently, as it makes a tripod mount for the phone should I
need that for video meetings etc. Hate the idea of being looked up to
with the typical laptop etc. usage. I could mount the phone at eye level.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[sms]

On 5/18/2020 11:22 AM, David Taylor wrote:
> On 18/05/2020 08:43, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 14.05.20 um 23:38 schrieb The Real Bev:
> []
>>> Selfie sticks?  I'd be ashamed to use one.
>>
>> +1; something for teenagers.
>
> I bought one recently, as it makes a tripod mount for the phone should I
> need that for video meetings etc.  Hate the idea of being looked up to
> with the typical laptop etc. usage.  I could mount the phone at eye  level.

I agree. I bought a combination tripod/monopod/selfie stick that can
hold a phone or a lighter camera. It's very useful, including for Zoom
meetings with the phone. It was this one:
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NYZ4PT1>. The newer model of this is
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VQ6YPFL>.

I can't imagine waving it around as a tourist, but they do have their uses.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-16 2:59 p.m., NY wrote:
> "Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
> news:r9p5cu$lp9$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>> I have held off buy Windows 10 because I don't like that changes such
>>> as no control as to which updates do and don't get installed (you can
>>> only defer installation of *all* updates, without being selective),
>>> and the "mess of tiles" Start Menu - thank goodness for Classic Shell
>>> and other similar products which (IMHO) turn a bad UI into one which
>>> is usable.
>>
>> And you go right on making my point.
>
> Exactly. My feeling is that no matter what improvements MS make to the
> engine, the controls should still be as similar as possible so I can
> still "drive" it using my prior knowledge.
>

And when you buy it anyway, you vote with your wallet.

[Alan Baker]

Being better than 8 is damning with faint praise.

[Alan Baker]

Says the guy who couldn't figure out how to pin the "Run" command to the
Taskbar...

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-17 12:34 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2020 22:47:48 +0100, NY wrote:
>
>> I wonder why the CD standard (defined by Philips?) didn't allocate a few
>> bytes per track in the CD index to give the album and track names, so any CD
>> player or playing software on a computer can read it and displaying.
>
> As an aside, instead of using the Orwellian iTunes abomination, for years I

You clearly don't mind going on and on...

...and on...

...so would you mind explaining...

In detail!

...how iTunes is "Orwellian"?

[David Taylor]

Mine was: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07TV5BCVW

[The Real Bev]

Nifty. I bought one of these several years ago but have had no occasion
to use it. I guess I could put it on a stack of books to put the phone
at eye level. https://tinyurl.com/ybwhkuoq

I have a bigger one with a 1/4-20 stud for a REAL camera and I've never
used that either except shaped to sit on my head and hold a Faux-Pro
which I did just to take a picture of me doing that.

Yard sale items. I guess they couldn't figure out what to do with them
either.

--
Cheers, Bev
Teamwork: A bunch of people running around doing what I tell them.

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 18:35:15 +0100,
NY <m...@privacy.invalid>, in
<r9hb42$7g3$1...@dont-email.me> wrote:
> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:r9hahs$3da$1...@dont-email.me...
> > On 05/13/2020 09:48 AM, KenW wrote:

> >> On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:40:14 -0700, The Real Bev
> >> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
> >>>adapter. I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work. The
> >>>USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but without
> >>>a micrometer I can't really tell. I emailed the seller who refunded my
> >>>money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
> >

> > I actually ordered two of them. Neither works.
> >
> >>>Yes, the earphones work.
>
>
> The problem with using a USB to 3.5 mm earphone adaptor is that you can't
> have the phone connected to a power source (and maybe transferring data
> between phone and computer) at the same time as you are listening on
> headphones.

Here's a three-in-one adapter - 2 3.5mm headsets, and one usb-c port for charging.

https://amzn.to/3bOkK6P

I'm not saying it works well or at all, but it is possible. I looked
to see if Anker produces a 3.5mm headset adapter, but they don't seem
to have one.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

[Alan Baker]

And the industrial design is a perfect copy of Apple's!

:-)

[sms]

On 5/13/2020 5:50 PM, sms wrote:

> On 5/13/2020 9:40 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> The Pixel2 has no earphone socket so I ordered an earphone-to-USB-C
>> adapter.  I had to force it into the Pixel and it didn't work.  The
>> USB-C connector LOOKS a little thicker than one that works, but
>> without a micrometer I can't really tell.  I emailed the seller who
>> refunded my money immediately, but I have to wonder WTF is happening.
>>

>> Yes, the earphones work.
>>
>> Are there different USB-C specs?
>
> Target sells the genuine Google dongle for $6.99
> <https://www.target.com/p/g/A-53968163>. So not sure of the upside of
> buying an unknown one from some unknown seller.

I needed one of these for my computer to use with an analog headset
since my headphone jack has been a little flaky with my headset. On the
Target web site it is $6.99. It rang up at the store at $12 (the MSRP).
I told the cashier that the price was wrong and he said that he'd give
me the web price but that the web price and the store price were
different. Works fine on my computer's USB-C jack.