cucurbitaceae ID from Hooghly 11/11/12 sk2

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surajit koley

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Nov 10, 2012, 9:26:39 PM11/10/12
to efloraofindia
Sir,

Found this wild climber (?) growing in wasteplace. I could not get nearer to it to ascertain how its leaves look.

Species : Momordica sp. ?
H & H : possibly climber, with big flower about the size of a bottle gourd or bigger than Luffa aegyptiaca Mill.; leaves maybe those in the bottom right of the last pic (set2_03. jpg)
Date : 7/11/12 & 8/11/12
Place : Hooghly

Perhaps this is wild KANKROL in Bengali, a bigger spiny fruit, sometimes cooked as vegetables by villagers. But, there is also a smaller spiny cultivated KAKROL that can be found in market/bazaar.

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

DSCN6749.jpg
DSCN6750.jpg
DSCN6756.jpg
DSCN6757.jpg
DSCN6758.jpg
set2_01.jpg
set2_02.jpg
set2_03.jpg

jmgarg1

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Nov 17, 2012, 4:24:57 AM11/17/12
to efloraofindia, ratang...@yahoo.com, mitra...@gmail.com, mithi...@yahoo.com, pch...@gmail.com, micromi...@gmail.com, anikets...@gmail.com, archan...@yahoo.co.in, surajitno...@gmail.com, sukla chanda, Gurcharan Singh, Dinesh Valke

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.




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J.M.Garg
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2000 members & 1,37,000 messages on 31/10/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species).
Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

DSCN6749.jpg
DSCN6750.jpg
DSCN6756.jpg
DSCN6757.jpg
DSCN6758.jpg
set2_01.jpg
set2_02.jpg
set2_03.jpg

surajit koley

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Nov 17, 2012, 8:31:24 AM11/17/12
to jmgarg1, efloraofindia
Garg Sir,

This is KANKROL, wild type and the botanical name is Momordica cochinchinensis Spreng.

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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May 7, 2013, 2:12:52 AM5/7/13
to surajit koley, jmgarg1, efloraofindia
Surajit ji
Perhaps you will have to confirm whether it is M. cochinchinensis or M. aubangulata var. renigera, the latter is supposed to be common in East India. The two have similar looking flowers. Following should help. It would be good if you could upload a fruit of it.

M. cochinchinensis: Petiole with 2-5 glands; bract of male flower 3-5 cm long, 5-8 cm broad; fruit ovoid, 12-15 cm in diam, uniformly spiny.

M. subangulata var. renigera: Petiole without glands, bract of male flower 2-3 cm long, 2-4 cm broad; fruit ovoid, 5-7 cm long, 2.5-4 cm broad, narrowed at both ends, covered with longitudinal rows of flattened  tubercles or undulate ridges.


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Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089


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surajit koley

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May 7, 2013, 2:05:40 PM5/7/13
to Gurcharan Singh, jmgarg1, efloraofindia
Sir,

I do not have any fruits of this wild plant. The plant itself no more exists. It was growing by railway side and the place has been cleared long ago. I am attaching two more photos. I am not sure if these photos would be of any help, for i do not have any statistics on their size.

However, "Bengal Plants" has three species - M. charantia L., M. dioica Roxb. and M. cochinchinensis Spreng.

Besides the above mentioned three species Flora of British India has three more. Of the six species, according to Fl. Br. Ind. two are common throughout India and M. cochinchinensis is found in Bengal, along with some other provinces.

While searching both the species i found -
Momordica_cochinsinensis_19nov12_DSCN7500.jpg
Momordica_cochinsinensis_19nov12_DSCN7501.jpg

surajit koley

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May 17, 2013, 9:43:16 PM5/17/13
to efloraofindia
Good morning
Some more pics, possibly from the same species.

Thank you,
Regard,
surajit
P1020931.jpg
P1020932.jpg
P1020934.jpg
P1020935.jpg
P1020945.jpg

Gurcharan Singh

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May 17, 2013, 10:12:59 PM5/17/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia
Petioles don't give any clue but acute to acuminate corolla tips suggest M. cochinchinensis. A side view of female flower or young fruit should help further


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Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

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surajit koley

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May 18, 2013, 12:24:13 PM5/18/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Sir,

I couldn't find gland on the petiole. But i think three glands can be found on the leaf margin, as have been illustrated in FoC - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=119709&flora_id=2.

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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May 18, 2013, 12:47:58 PM5/18/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia
Yes Surajit ji
I missed them earlier. You are a real researches.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

Gurcharan Singh

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May 18, 2013, 12:50:28 PM5/18/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia
I meant real researcher. I think M. cochinchinensis is supported by both glands and acute to acuminate corolla lobes, as well as dark spots at base.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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May 18, 2013, 12:59:29 PM5/18/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Sir, for confirming the ID. I also very much wish that oneday i could find a female plant and fruits.

Regards,
surajit

Ushadi Micromini

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May 19, 2013, 1:11:01 AM5/19/13
to Gurcharan Singh, surajit koley, efloraofindia
good show
ushadi
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Usha di
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surajit koley

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May 19, 2013, 4:17:05 AM5/19/13
to Ushadi Micromini, Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Usha Di. I am very happy to hear/read you after a long time.

The place where i found the plant for the first time was really got cleared. But then again it is growing. Or is it another? Then there must be a female plant nearby. The place is not  safe (ideal for snakes).

Regards,
surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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May 19, 2013, 7:10:23 AM5/19/13
to surajit koley, Ushadi Micromini, efloraofindia
Dear Surajit
Perhaps there is a dire need to get authentic specimens of both male and female flowers, leaves, young fruits and ripe fruits of M. dioica, M. cochinchinensis and M. subangulata (with two subspecies subangulata and renigera). all often given common name of teasel gourd (a name which actually belongs to Cucumis dipsaceus, which we recently resolved in a separate thread). I am surprised to note some very reputed websites labelling M, cochinchinensis as M. subangulata:



Where as the true M. subangulata can be seen here:




It looks M. subangulata is confused with both other species.

Perhaps all three may be found in your area to explore and investigate.

surajit koley

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May 19, 2013, 12:50:40 PM5/19/13
to Gurcharan Singh, Ushadi Micromini, efloraofindia
Sir,

Recently i also have developed some doubt over the id of my species, in this thread. Specially when i didn't find any gland on the petiole. Moreover, the leaves are entire.

All i could collect on the 11th May, on my second visit, gathering much courage, is two leaves, a bud, and a wilting flower. There was no fresh flower. Yesterday, i noticed several blooming flowers, but didn't dare to go nearer. This time also it is a male plant.

Yet, i think this species is M. cochinchinensis, for, 1) its long petiole, 11cm (against 3-8 cm in M. subangulata as per FoC) and 2) Flora of British India writes -

"Leaves 4-5 in. diam. ...... usually 3 lobed...... petiole 2-3 in., almost invariably glandular on its middle as well as apex...."

I am attaching three more pics, recorded on my 2nd and 3rd visit.

I will keep this issue in my mind and try to find more.

Regards,
surajit
11may13_P1020928.jpg
11may13_P1020929.jpg
18may13_P1030529.jpg

surajit koley

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Jun 26, 2013, 1:53:28 PM6/26/13
to efloraofindia

J.M. Garg

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Jul 2, 2013, 2:38:05 AM7/2/13
to efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de, Vijayasankar Raman, surajit koley, Gurcharan Singh
Finally concluded as M. subangulata subsp. renigera as per discussions in another thread.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 11 November 2012 07:56
Subject: [efloraofindia:137969] cucurbitaceae ID from Hooghly 11/11/12 sk2
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>



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--
With regards,
J.M.Garg
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world): http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2110 members & 1,56,000 messages on 31/5/13) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 8500 species).
DSCN6749.jpg
DSCN6750.jpg
DSCN6756.jpg
DSCN6757.jpg
DSCN6758.jpg
set2_01.jpg
set2_02.jpg
set2_03.jpg

surajit koley

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Jul 2, 2013, 12:53:14 PM7/2/13
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Ajmal Ali, arunk...@botany.du.ac.in, ren...@lmu.de, Vijayasankar Raman, Gurcharan Singh
Yes, Garg Sir, as per discussion in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/bNPuXOsu1y4/faDnRsfXHpcJ and 1) shape of lamina 2) absence of petiolar glands (as can be found in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/lSutUfvKQ5I/yCA9HJQrYYkJ, this is M. subangulata subsp. renigera.

Thank you
Regards
surajit
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