Redesign of djangoproject.com?

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Dana Woodman

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Apr 28, 2012, 3:22:59 AM4/28/12
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So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com?

Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com could use a bit of a facelift. 

I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea? 

Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!

Cheers,
Dana

Russell Keith-Magee

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Apr 28, 2012, 4:05:27 AM4/28/12
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Hi Dana,

I completely agree. I've been trying to get a redesign of djangoproject.com going for quite some time under the auspices of the Django Foundation. As you can see from the lack of changes, you can see that I haven't been particularly successful :-(

The fundamental problem is that we have plenty of coding talent at our disposal, but not as much design talent. That's not to say that there aren't many talented designers in our community -- there are -- it's just that they're all very busy. We've approached several people in the Django design community asking them to help out, and some have even made done some initial work. However, redesign of a high-profile site like djangoproject.com is a big job, and nobody has been able to spare the time to bring the job to completion.

So - at this point I'm open to any offers. I want to avoid design by committee -- ideally, I would like to pass this off to a single person (or a small group) and give them complete control over design process. I'm not completely sure how to organise who gets this role -- suggestions are welcome.

If you (or anyone else) is interested, drop me a line and I can give you the design brief we've been working with.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)



On Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 3:22 PM, Dana Woodman wrote:

> So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com)?
>
> Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) could use a bit of a facelift.
>
> I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
>
> Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
>
> Cheers,
> Dana
>
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Dana Woodman

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Apr 28, 2012, 4:13:48 AM4/28/12
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Great to know they're is some interest in it and agreement that it is in need :)

I'm very interested in the prospect of redesigning the site and would love to chat more about it. I feel like I owe the Django community something for all that it has given me (including the job I currently have!). I'd love to talk scope and other factors so I have a clear idea of what would be involved. 

Is this a good forum for this type of discussion or should we get in touch elsewhere to talk? You can get in touch with me here: http://danawoodman.com/
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Chris Pickett

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Apr 28, 2012, 8:11:32 AM4/28/12
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It seems to me that this might be one of those opportunities to just jump right in and get your hands dirty. I many ways I don't know if a redesign is going to happen without someone taking the initiative and getting it done, so it might as well be you! :)

Ned Batchelder

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Apr 28, 2012, 9:53:40 AM4/28/12
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Will there be any specific discussion about what's wrong with the current site?  You two seem to agree something needs to be done, but haven't mentioned anything specific. 

--Ned.

Alec Taylor

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Apr 28, 2012, 10:00:42 AM4/28/12
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I can throw in some UX designing if you want

Dana Woodman

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Apr 28, 2012, 1:45:05 PM4/28/12
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Very true Chris. I'd love to see the documents that were put together when this was discussed last time, if they're still around.

In regards to what  needs improvement, there are some core issues as I see it. 

1) the home page does a poor job of conveying what someone should do if they want to try out Django. It also could do a much better job of making Django a bit more "sexy". 
2) the documentation itself, while thorough, is a bit difficult to navigate, especially for new users. I think this could be partially remedied by some modifications to headers and color choices. 
3) the project could do a better job of selling itself, especially in regards to showcasing why it is so great: automatic admin, large active community and plugins, large sites and organizations using it, active development, lots of built in security, etc...
4) it just looks old and outdated, which is a problem in its own right. 

Should I just fork the project on Github and hack away or do I need to work on subversion?

In regards to organization of the documentation, I assume that is generated via the docs within Django, correct? Would I have freedom to do content organization/copy changes or would it just be a design change? I don't mean changing the documentation, but more how other pages and sections are laid out. 

I assume I'd also need to work on the code.djangoproject.org site as well? Are there other things that would need to change? I'd really need the scope down so I know how and where to start. 

This is no simple task so any direction or help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers
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Russell Keith-Magee

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Apr 28, 2012, 7:23:32 PM4/28/12
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Hi Ned,

It occurs to me that the design brief we've been using actually does a pretty good job of answering your questions, and there aren't any big secrets in those plans, so I figure I might as well share it for all to see.

----
djangoproject.com design brief:

We're not looking for anything too radical. It's really just about bringing the site up to current industry best practice, and exposing some information that is hidden on the current site.

* We need a visual refresh, keeping the same basic Django green-based color scheme. The web design world has moved on a bit since 2005; Django's site should reflect those changes. We say we're a state-of-the-art framework, so our design should reflect that. This means good uses of font faces, adaptive layouts, and so on -- all the things that have emerged in the best of web design over the last couple of years.

* It has to maintain a professional image -- no ponies or anything like that.

* Provide better pathways for people visiting the site. The site now has multiple audiences, who will each be looking for different information:
- First time technical users, looking for technical overviews and tutorials
- Long term users looking for documentation,
- Users wanting to get involved with contributing code/patches/documentation
- Business users considering Django that need a non-technical case

The current site doesn't reflect this diverse audience very well, and doesn't provide a clear call to action/next step for most of these visitors

* Increase the visibility of the DSF -- which is to say, make the DSF visible at all. The biggest subtask in this is making our sponsors visible. We're not looking to splash advertising over the homepage, but we do need to provide a clear way to say thank you to our sponsors, and invite others to join them.

* Ability to keep a consistent design across code.djangoproject.com (http://code.djangoproject.com), docs.djangoproject.com (http://docs.djangoproject.com) and any other sites that we pull into the mix.

* Flexibility to add links out to other community resources as we add them -- for example, if we resurrect djangopeople.net (http://djangopeople.net), we would like to be able to link to them somewhere on the site. The current site design doesn't really provide an appropriate place to put this sort of linkage.

----

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)


On Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 9:53 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

> Will there be any specific discussion about what's wrong with the current site? You two seem to agree something needs to be done, but haven't mentioned anything specific.
>
> --Ned.
>
> On 4/28/2012 4:13 AM, Dana Woodman wrote:
> > Great to know they're is some interest in it and agreement that it is in need :)
> >
> > I'm very interested in the prospect of redesigning the site and would love to chat more about it. I feel like I owe the Django community something for all that it has given me (including the job I currently have!). I'd love to talk scope and other factors so I have a clear idea of what would be involved.
> >
> > Is this a good forum for this type of discussion or should we get in touch elsewhere to talk? You can get in touch with me here: http://danawoodman.com/
> >
> > --
> > Dana Woodman
> > da...@danawoodman.com (mailto:da...@danawoodman.com)
> > http://www.danawoodman.com
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dana,
> > >
> > > I completely agree. I've been trying to get a redesign of djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) going for quite some time under the auspices of the Django Foundation. As you can see from the lack of changes, you can see that I haven't been particularly successful :-(
> > >
> > > The fundamental problem is that we have plenty of coding talent at our disposal, but not as much design talent. That's not to say that there aren't many talented designers in our community -- there are -- it's just that they're all very busy. We've approached several people in the Django design community asking them to help out, and some have even made done some initial work. However, redesign of a high-profile site like djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) is a big job, and nobody has been able to spare the time to bring the job to completion.
> > >
> > > So - at this point I'm open to any offers. I want to avoid design by committee -- ideally, I would like to pass this off to a single person (or a small group) and give them complete control over design process. I'm not completely sure how to organise who gets this role -- suggestions are welcome.
> > >
> > > If you (or anyone else) is interested, drop me a line and I can give you the design brief we've been working with.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > Russ Magee %-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 3:22 PM, Dana Woodman wrote:
> > >
> > > > So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) (http://djangoproject.com)?
> > > >
> > > > Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) (http://djangoproject.com) could use a bit of a facelift.
> > > >
> > > > I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
> > > >
> > > > Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Dana
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/-/g8ngEnVG_EsJ.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to django-d...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-d...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:django-d...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-develop...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:django-develop...@googlegroups.com).

Russell Keith-Magee

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Apr 28, 2012, 7:49:07 PM4/28/12
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Hi Dana


On Sunday, 29 April 2012 at 1:45 AM, Dana Woodman wrote:

> Very true Chris. I'd love to see the documents that were put together when this was discussed last time, if they're still around.
>
I've included the design brief in my response to Ned. If you're looking for something else in particular, let me know and I'll see if I can find (or produce) something that is suitable.
>
> In regards to what needs improvement, there are some core issues as I see it.
>
> 1) the home page does a poor job of conveying what someone should do if they want to try out Django. It also could do a much better job of making Django a bit more "sexy".
> 2) the documentation itself, while thorough, is a bit difficult to navigate, especially for new users. I think this could be partially remedied by some modifications to headers and color choices.
> 3) the project could do a better job of selling itself, especially in regards to showcasing why it is so great: automatic admin, large active community and plugins, large sites and organizations using it, active development, lots of built in security, etc...
> 4) it just looks old and outdated, which is a problem in its own right.
>
> Should I just fork the project on Github and hack away or do I need to work on subversion?
>
As of yesterday, we are a SVN-free organisation -- everything is on GitHub. However, djangoproject.com has been on GitHub for a while:

https://github.com/django/djangoproject.com

If you want to work on code directly, that's the place to start.
>
> In regards to organization of the documentation, I assume that is generated via the docs within Django, correct? Would I have freedom to do content organization/copy changes or would it just be a design change? I don't mean changing the documentation, but more how other pages and sections are laid out.

Correct - the documentation is the contents of the /docs directory, as rendered by Sphinx. This means that the style of any individual page (e.g., fonts for headings, etc) is part of the Sphinx stylesheet, but the gross structure is determined by the file layout in the /docs directory (i.e., one page per file).

There's really two tasks contained in what you have described here:

1) Restyling the docs to make them easier to read

2) Reorganizing the docs to make information easier to find.

1) is definitely the remit of this design project. (2) is a much bigger project. Unless you're going to keep it simple - e.g., a proposing better home page layout for the docs - it may be better to leave the structure of the docs as a separate issue.
> I assume I'd also need to work on the code.djangoproject.org (http://code.djangoproject.org) site as well? Are there other things that would need to change? I'd really need the scope down so I know how and where to start.

There's also pages for the foundation; these aren't currently linked to from the homepage, so they're really well hidden. Right now, they're currently implemented as flat pages.

However, as the brief indicates, we'd like to have a bunch of broader design guidelines so if we want to improve any existing section of the site, or if any other project comes along and we want to integrate them into djangoproject.com (e.g., Django People or Django Packages), we can give that project a style guide to work with.

More importantly, one of my goals with this project is to broaden the base of "active design experts" that we have as a project. The core coding team has a relatively low bus factor -- if one of us stops committing, there are plenty of others who know the code and can maintain the project in our absence. However, our design bus factor is somewhere between 1 and 0 -- we've got Idan as our Benevolent Designer for Life, but he's a busy man; we really need to surround him with a bunch of talented designers, in the same way that we've got Jacob and Adrian, plus a bunch of talented developers.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
>
> This is no simple task so any direction or help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Cheers
>
> On Apr 28, 2012, at 5:11 AM, Chris Pickett <chris....@gmail.com (mailto:chris....@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> > It seems to me that this might be one of those opportunities to just jump right in and get your hands dirty. I many ways I don't know if a redesign is going to happen without someone taking the initiative and getting it done, so it might as well be you! :)
> >
> > On Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:22:59 AM UTC-5, Dana Woodman wrote:
> > > So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com)?
> > >
> > > Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) could use a bit of a facelift.
> > >
> > > I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
> > >
> > > Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Dana
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/-/sWZOWG-NqmgJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to django-d...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-d...@googlegroups.com).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-develop...@googlegroups.com).
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>
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Dana Woodman

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Apr 28, 2012, 8:33:26 PM4/28/12
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Great info Russ, thanks!

My thoughts at this point would be to focus on the main content sections, including the home page and documentation overview pages. 

For the home page I'd see something like this working well:

  • -Logo and brief project description (fork on Github as well?) - Answers the "What is Django?" and "Why should I care?" questions. (for example, Twitter Bootstraps's home page: http://cl.ly/3R0d1X300S0S0f0A0j0S)
  • Link to download and docs - Answers the "How can I start?" question
  • "Who uses Django?" section - Answers, well... the "Who uses Django?" question. BTW, is there a reason that there isn't more of the larger users of Django on here?  Eg Disqus, Instagram, Pinterest, Google, Mahalo, addons.mozilla.org, etc... This alone would get people excited to use Django and would convince a lot of the business types that Django can scale and is worth the investment.
  • A graphical site navigation area, eg: http://cl.ly/3B1N2h3E2x3x0f3V091K - Give people a an easy way to get around to the core content on the site.

Thinking a layout along the lines of Node.js (http://nodejs.org/) homepage would be effective. Node does a good job of keeping things minimal and easy to navigate.

Some sort of "blogroll" type feature would satisfy the need to update the community of interesting or useful links. This could work in concert with the documentation as well. Not sure what the exact needs for this are, what would be an ideal process for this?

How would the style guide be presented? Would it be a page on djangoproject.org, Github Wiki, a PDF, or...?

I assume it would be fairly straightforward to give Spinx a new skin?

Do you feel an incremental approach would be best or should it be a complete overhaul in one go?
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Alec Taylor

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Apr 29, 2012, 11:34:43 AM4/29/12
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Contact me for UX once you have forked the repo, I'll throw something
up and place it on the wiki (or in an issue) of that new repo.

Email: alect...@gmail.com

Alec Taylor

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Apr 29, 2012, 12:23:18 PM4/29/12
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Here is a design I just pulled up: http://i.imgur.com/wIkel.png

Thoughts?

Dana Woodman

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Apr 29, 2012, 1:32:13 PM4/29/12
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Giovanni Collazo

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:07:31 PM4/29/12
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I liked what Dana Woodman did, so I did a design based on that.


--
@gcollazo

It seems to me that this might be one of those opportunities to just jump
right in and get your hands dirty. I many ways I don't know if a redesign is
going to happen without someone taking the initiative and getting it done,
so it might as well be you! :)

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:22:59 AM UTC-5, Dana Woodman wrote:

So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe
it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project

Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions
as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm
alone) that djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) could use a bit of
a facelift.

I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure
there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could
open up some discussion on this idea?

Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!

Cheers,
Dana




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Juan Pablo Martínez

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:20:52 PM4/29/12
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/-/idyNPCE19loJ.

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Adnane Belmadiaf

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:20:43 PM4/29/12
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Hi all,

I would like to introduce myself, here is my proposal http://i.imgur.com/bnf2e.png

Best,
Adnane Belmadiaf

2012/4/29 Dana Woodman <da...@danawoodman.com>



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----------------
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Dana Woodman

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:42:26 PM4/29/12
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Jeez, looks like I started a tsunami... 

Buddy Lindsey, Jr.

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:59:43 PM4/29/12
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I see all this stuff about video in the redesigns. Are there some videos on the site that I missed or is it wishful thinking?

April 29, 2012 2:42 PM
Jeez, looks like I started a tsunami... 

On Apr 29, 2012, at 12:20 PM, Adnane Belmadiaf <da...@ubuntu.com> wrote:

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April 29, 2012 2:20 PM
Hi all,

I would like to introduce myself, here is my proposal http://i.imgur.com/bnf2e.png

Best,
Adnane Belmadiaf




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----------------
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Loco Directory Hacker


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April 29, 2012 12:32 PM

On Sunday, April 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:


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April 29, 2012 11:23 AM
Here is a design I just pulled up: http://i.imgur.com/wIkel.png

Thoughts?

April 29, 2012 10:34 AM

Meir Kriheli

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Apr 29, 2012, 4:21:13 PM4/29/12
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DjangoCon videos ?
http://pyvideo.org/

compose-unknown-contact.jpg
postbox-contact.jpg
postbox-contact.jpg

rikuth...@gmail.com

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Apr 29, 2012, 4:46:15 PM4/29/12
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The one that Giovanni did is really nice, I like it!

2012/4/29 Juan Pablo Martínez <jpm...@gmail.com>



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Dana Woodman

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Apr 29, 2012, 5:33:33 PM4/29/12
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Giovanni and I have touched base about collaborating on the design. We'll update as we go. 

There are tons of good Django videos to choose from. Ideas are appreciated. 

Buddy Lindsey, Jr.

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Apr 29, 2012, 5:51:12 PM4/29/12
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I was just curios wasn't sure where the videos where going to come from. Also if some content is specifically needed for the site, video wise, I would be willing to make a couple for the site outside of what I do on godjango.com if it could help.

Dana Woodman wrote:

Giovanni and I have touched base about collaborating on the design.
We'll update as we go.

There are tons of good Django videos to choose from. Ideas are
appreciated.

On Apr 29, 2012, at 1:46 PM, "rikuth...@gmail.com

The one that Giovanni did is really nice, I like it!

2012/4/29 Juan Pablo Martínez <jpm...@gmail.com
<mailto:jpm...@gmail.com>>


    http://imgur.com/a/186fh
    nice :)

    On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Giovanni Collazo
    <gcol...@gmail.com <mailto:gcol...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        I liked what Dana Woodman did, so I did a design based on that.

        Here: http://imgur.com/a/186fh

        --
        @gcollazo
        gcol...@24veces.com <mailto:gcol...@24veces.com>


        On Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:32:13 PM UTC-4, Dana Woodman wrote:

            This is my take: http://cl.ly/__0U2C1O20133i0U3d1s3X/o

            <http://cl.ly/0U2C1O20133i0U3d1s3X/o>

            --
            Dana Woodman
            da...@danawoodman.com <mailto:da...@danawoodman.com>

            http://www.danawoodman.com

            On Sunday, April 29, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Alec Taylor wrote:


            Here is a design I just pulled up:
            http://i.imgur.com/wIkel.png

            Thoughts?

            On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Alec Taylor
            <alec.t...@gmail.com <mailto:alec.t...@gmail.com>>
            wrote:

            Contact me for UX once you have forked the repo, I'll
            throw something
            up and place it on the wiki (or in an issue) of that
            new repo.

            Email: alect...@gmail.com <mailto:alect...@gmail.com>


            On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Dana Woodman
            <da...@danawoodman.com <mailto:da...@danawoodman.com>> wrote:

            Great info Russ, thanks!

            My thoughts at this point would be to focus on the
            main content sections,
            including the home page and documentation overview pages.

            For the home page I'd see something like this working
            well:

            -Logo and brief project description (fork on Github as
            well?) - Answers the
            "What is Django?" and "Why should I care?" questions.
            (for example, Twitter
            Bootstraps's home page:
            http://cl.ly/__3R0d1X300S0S0f0A0j0S
            <http://cl.ly/3R0d1X300S0S0f0A0j0S>)

            Link to download and docs - Answers the "How can I
            start?" question
            "Who uses Django?" section - Answers, well... the "Who
            uses Django?"
            question. BTW, is there a reason that there isn't more
            of the larger users
            of Django on here? Eg Disqus, Instagram, Pinterest,
            Google, Mahalo,
            addons.mozilla.org <http://addons.mozilla.org>, etc...

            This alone would get people excited to use Django
            and would convince a lot of the business types that
            Django can scale and is
            worth the investment.
            A graphical site navigation area, eg:
            http://cl.ly/__3B1N2h3E2x3x0f3V091K

            <http://cl.ly/3B1N2h3E2x3x0f3V091K> -
            Give people a an easy way to get around to the core
            content on the site.


            Thinking a layout along the lines of Node.js
            (http://nodejs.org/) homepage
            would be effective. Node does a good job of keeping
            things minimal and easy
            to navigate.

            Some sort of "blogroll" type feature would satisfy the
            need to update the
            community of interesting or useful links. This could
            work in concert with
            the documentation as well. Not sure what the exact
            needs for this are, what
            would be an ideal process for this?

            How would the style guide be presented? Would it be a
            page on
            djangoproject.org <http://djangoproject.org>, Github

            Wiki, a PDF, or...?

            I assume it would be fairly straightforward to give
            Spinx a new skin?

            Do you feel an incremental approach would be best or
            should it be a complete
            overhaul in one go?

            --
            Dana Woodman
            da...@danawoodman.com <mailto:da...@danawoodman.com>
            However, djangoproject.com <http://djangoproject.com>

            has been on GitHub for a while:

            code.djangoproject.org <http://code.djangoproject.org>
            (http://code.djangoproject.org__) site as well? Are

            there other things that
            would need to change? I'd really need the scope down
            so I know how and where
            to start.


            There's also pages for the foundation; these aren't
            currently linked to from
            the homepage, so they're really well hidden. Right
            now, they're currently
            implemented as flat pages.

            However, as the brief indicates, we'd like to have a
            bunch of broader design
            guidelines so if we want to improve any existing
            section of the site, or if
            any other project comes along and we want to integrate
            them into
            djangoproject.com <http://djangoproject.com> (e.g.,
            <chris....@gmail.com <mailto:chris....@gmail.com>
            (mailto:chris.pickett@gmail.__com

            <mailto:chris....@gmail.com>)> wrote:

            It seems to me that this might be one of those
            opportunities to just jump
            right in and get your hands dirty. I many ways I don't
            know if a redesign is
            going to happen without someone taking the initiative
            and getting it done,
            so it might as well be you! :)

            On Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:22:59 AM UTC-5, Dana
            Woodman wrote:

            So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which
            is awesome!), maybe
            it would be a good time to think about a revamped home
            page for the project
            ala djangoproject.com <http://djangoproject.com>

            (http://djangoproject.com)?

            Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be
            potentially contentions
            as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I
            don't think I'm
            alone) that djangoproject.com

            could use a bit of
            a facelift.

            I have some idea of my own as to how this could be
            accomplished and I'm sure
            there are a ton of others out there with great ideas
            as well. Maybe we could
            open up some discussion on this idea?

            Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new
            to the group!

            Cheers,
            Dana




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Dana Woodman

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Apr 29, 2012, 5:52:45 PM4/29/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
I really like the idea of having a dedicated video page on the site broken down by topic. I personally love learning from video and think its an accessible format for new as well as seasoned Django users. 

Buddy, your videos would be a great addition to that idea. 

will kahn-greene

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Apr 29, 2012, 5:58:27 PM4/29/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com, Dana Woodman
Hi!

I run pyvideo.org and I'm totally game for adding API points for
anything you want to do with the Django sites. You can definitely get
the data elsewhere on the Internet, but one of the purposes of pyvideo
is to make this sort of thing easier.

Thought I'd mention it in case that's interesting to anyone.

/will

Adnane Belmadiaf

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Apr 29, 2012, 3:25:31 PM4/29/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,

I would like to introduce myself, here is my proposal http://i.imgur.com/bnf2e.png

Best,
Adnane Belmadiaf

2012/4/29 Juan Pablo Martínez <jpm...@gmail.com>
Cordialement
Adnane Belmadiaf

Dana Woodman

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Apr 29, 2012, 8:43:46 PM4/29/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
You already posted that earlier today Adnane.

Adnane Belmadiaf

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Apr 30, 2012, 5:34:58 AM4/30/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
Yeah sorry about that, i wasn't sure my email was sent.

2012/4/30 Dana Woodman <da...@danawoodman.com>



--
Cordialement
Adnane Belmadiaf

Idan Gazit

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Apr 30, 2012, 6:41:43 PM4/30/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
Lovely to see fresh talent and energy applied to a long-stalled issue. :)

I think Giovanni's proposal has a strong, simple page structure, and it does a good job of IA for our varied audience. Putting on my BDesignerFL hat, let's use that as a starting point.

Let's set aside the issue of restyling docs for now; we can't run in all directions at once.


Homepage Structure
===============


News
~~~~

The major element elided from the proposal is some display of news. The current homepage shows the most recent four entries; I think one is sufficient for the homepage, but it does need to be somewhere on the page.


Header nav
~~~~~~~~

There is no header nav in the proposal. I'd like to have some minimal list of primary nav links, like the ones at the top-left of the page fat-footer. On the homepage, they can appear very de-emphasized, I like the spare look of the masthead and I don't want to break that by boxing it in with a visual bar from above.


Header actions
~~~~~~~~~~~

While I like the "quick start" mechanic, those buttons require some love:

* There's no obvious "get django" or "download" call-to-action. "Quick start" is good but we're burying the download information in there.
* The quick start drawer doesn't make mention of the other ways you can get Django, for example downloading a tarball or a link to github.
* There's no quick display of our most recent released version. It belongs somewhere at the level of these buttons.

My proposal is a button layout like:

[ Get Django 1.4 v ] [ Quick Start v ] [ Documentation ]

The get-django button can show a drawer like quick start, but show the three common routes (pip, tarball, github) and supply a link to a page with more details if need be.


Who's Using Django
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know if we'll have case studies. If not, an attractive display of some logos wouldn't go badly. If we do, then we can fade out the other logos upon click and show a bit of teaser text about the company with a link to "read more…"


Footer
~~~~~

I like the structure. Need to give some thought to the six large elements and make sure they're the best choices for what to show there.


Responsive Structure
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A requirement for the new dp.com is that it be responsive or adaptive. I'm not going to get hung up on the technicalities—something which looks and works well on a variety of common screen geometries. The proposed page layout would linearize well for smaller screens, which is excellent.




Non-homepage templates
===================

I'm not sure what other pages we have in our current site, ignoring trac for now. I suspect that we'll need one or two templates for non-home pages.



Look & Graphic Design
=================

I don't want to get off course with the IA work. Color and design stuff can wait until we're feeling that the structure is mostly baked.

If you have ideas and you want to get them down, I'd recommend you make something like style tiles (http://styletil.es/).




Thanks all for your brains on this matter. I am excited to see this underway, and I can't wait to see what comes next. :)


-I

Jacob Kaplan-Moss

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Apr 30, 2012, 6:47:42 PM4/30/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
On Monday, April 30, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Idan Gazit wrote:
Non-homepage templates
===================

I'm not sure what other pages we have in our current site, ignoring trac for now. I suspect that we'll need one or two templates for non-home pages.

Docs are the big one -- more than half of the traffic to djangoproject.com is to the docs site. A good docs layout and theme that fits into the rest of the site is a pretty big deal IMO.

Jacob

Christian Metts

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Apr 30, 2012, 7:20:59 PM4/30/12
to Django developers
As of the previous failed attempts to make something happen here I
want to get what I have out here for everyone to consider/use/ignore
as desired:

First some images of where I got:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/dp.com-home.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/homepage-scrolled.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/documentation.png

And my illustrator source file. The font I was using for almost
everything was Adelle which is available from typekit and possibly
other places.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/dp.com.xian.redesign.ai

IA wise:
* My plan was for a simple top nav that could be minimized further on
interior pages.
* sections of the site could such as the homepage could be fairly long
and use a side nav that followed/showed your location similar to:
http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/ (see second screenshot)
* The homepage could have a couple of places for time based updates up
in the banner/nav area. In my screen shot it shows a few blog post
titles and upcoming events.

while I completely stalled out I'm totally excited about DP getting a
much needed refresh and growing further.

glhf!

—Xian

Julien Phalip

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May 1, 2012, 12:07:52 AM5/1/12
to Django developers
Hi everyone,

It's really exciting to see the community offering to help in this
endeavor. I myself spent quite a bit of time last year driving a
redesign effort for djangoproject.com, so I thought I'd share my work
with you now while the momentum is picking up again.

So, using some initial briefing and feedback from Russell, Jacob, Idan
and Christian, I had designed a new IA and then built a working
prototype:

http://www.djangoproject.dotcloud.com/
Login details: preview/ihud8t4k

I'd like to emphasize that this is a *prototype*. The visuals were
intentionally left rough and unpolished, and even the IA itself was a
work in progress. I've seen many great ideas so far in this thread, so
please feel free to rip this prototype off, or to just get some
inspiration from it, or to simply ignore it altogether.

Technically-speaking, the front end uses Sass and Compass and it
implements the responsive Less framework [1]. To see an example of the
responsive behavior, try resizing your browser window on the homepage
[2]. I had also spent a lot of time tweaking the documentation's
layout and styles to make it easy to view across screen sizes [3]. For
example, the sidebar collapses into a clickable button on small
screens. Another example is with large images as in [4]; as the window
gets smaller, the image shrinks along with the window and becomes
clickable on small screens — this is to allow mobile users to access
the full-width image without breaking the layout. However, will all
that said, it might eventually be worth considering to move the
documentation entirely to RTD one day (with some special branding).

The prototype's code is available on github [5]. I hope this is of
some help to the person or team that will be driving this project.

Kindly,

Julien


[1] http://lessframework.com/
[2] Prototype homepage: http://www.djangoproject.dotcloud.com/
[3] Documentation prototype: http://docs.djangoproject.dotcloud.com/en/dev/
[4] http://docs.djangoproject.dotcloud.com/en/dev/internals/contributing/triaging-tickets/#triage-workflow
[5] Prototype's code: https://github.com/jphalip/djangoproject.com/tree/visual-redesign

Joe Tennies

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May 1, 2012, 12:50:22 AM5/1/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
A lot of these mockups are good, but I have a couple comments.

I'd like to see more "interesting" grid layout. Django comes from the world of newpapers. I think that should be honored with an power 12/16 column layout. I'm seeing something like "Power Grid" from http://designshack.net/articles/layouts/10-rock-solid-website-layout-examples
Other prior art to look at:
http://demos.dojotoolkit.org/demos/fonts/demo.html
I think http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/dp.com-home.png did a decent job of this. I love the sections on the top looking like sections of a newspaper.


Another thing I like to see in every decent site is something to direct people into where they want to get by categorizing them. I'm seeing sections like "Considering Django" w/ the sales pitch, case studies, who uses it, etc. I'll have to think about how to categorize the rest, but I am usually annoyed by ending up on someone's site and not exactly knowing where to go.

I've been messing with Adobe Proto lately. I'll see if I can put more showin' and less jibber-jabberin' ;)

- Joe Tennies

Alec Taylor

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May 1, 2012, 1:18:20 AM5/1/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
The http://proxart.co/ design on that page is quite a good one

Ivan Ivanov

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May 1, 2012, 1:00:05 AM5/1/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
На Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:33:33 -0700
Dana Woodman <woodma...@gmail.com> написа:

> Giovanni and I have touched base about collaborating on the design.
> We'll update as we go.

Hi all!

I have not enough time for participating on developement right now, but
I could be helpful with testing and (when needed) fixing issues, so when
you make a repo, please let us know, so I can follow the project.

Thanks for the grate job in advance!

Ivan

Russell Keith-Magee

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May 1, 2012, 7:52:10 PM5/1/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,

I have two reactions to Giovanni's design:

* There needs to be more than one call to action. "Download and run tutorial" is the call to action for new users; but there are several other equally important calls to action:

- I'm an active Django user -- how do I get involved in development?

- I'm a manager considering Django - I don't want details, but I need to know if Django will be suitable for my project

- I'm a manager using Django - I want to give back to the community? (i.e., where is the foundation?)

Giovanni's proposal seems to have the same limitation as the current site -- there's a call to action for running the tutorial, but not for the other use cases.

* One of my personal goals for this redesign is to give more visibility to community resources. Over the last 6 years, we've had a number of unofficial projects come and done great service for the community -- django people, several packaging indices, and so on. However, many of these projects have died on the vine. I suspect one of the reasons that these projects has died is that they've never really been considered first class members of the community, and so it's mentally easy to abandon them rather than seeking to hand them off to a new maintainer. The only place I can see in Giovanni's design for this sort of community content would be to bury it in the footer, or on a separate part of the community page.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
> A requirement for the new dp.com (http://dp.com) is that it be responsive or adaptive. I'm not going to get hung up on the technicalities—something which looks and works well on a variety of common screen geometries. The proposed page layout would linearize well for smaller screens, which is excellent.
>
>
>
>
> Non-homepage templates
> ===================
>
> I'm not sure what other pages we have in our current site, ignoring trac for now. I suspect that we'll need one or two templates for non-home pages.
>
>
>
> Look & Graphic Design
> =================
>
> I don't want to get off course with the IA work. Color and design stuff can wait until we're feeling that the structure is mostly baked.
>
> If you have ideas and you want to get them down, I'd recommend you make something like style tiles (http://styletil.es/).
>
>
>
>
> Thanks all for your brains on this matter. I am excited to see this underway, and I can't wait to see what comes next. :)
>
>
> -I
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to django-d...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-d...@googlegroups.com).
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-develop...@googlegroups.com).

Daniel Sokolowski

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May 1, 2012, 8:14:48 PM5/1/12
to django-d...@googlegroups.com
Being realistic here we must acknowledge that likely the majority of us are great programmers but not great designers – none of the design proposed did it for me – they were not bad but they weren’t great, and I want epic, I want sexy and I want eye candy. 
 
So I say this: it is no shame to use a pre-existing, pre-made  template.
 
I have used http://themeforest.net/?ref=danols successfully in the past - yes it includes my referral link - an added benefit is we can get through the mock up and conversion phases very quickly. Some designs that caught my eye --- please note these are fluid designs hence table and smartphone ready, resize your browser window to see what I mean.
 
 
 
 
However
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:22 AM
Subject: Redesign of djangoproject.com?
 
So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com?
 
Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com could use a bit of a facelift.
 
I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
 
Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
 
Cheers,
Dana
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Dana Woodman

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May 1, 2012, 9:16:52 PM5/1/12
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People weren't proposing finished designs Daniel, they're mockups/wireframes. The first focus here is getting the IA right and then making it "sexy". 

I for one think that canned designs are not the way to go for a project such as Django. One of the goals with the redesign of the site is to showcase how the Django community values design in addition to development and choosing a pre made design doesn't serve those ends IMO. 

On the flip side, there's nothin wrong with borrowing (read stealing) good ideas from other designs. That's what art is anyways ;)

Just my $.02. 

Moritz S.

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May 1, 2012, 9:18:57 PM5/1/12
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Those templates look very great but I think it's a really bad idea to use work without GPL compatible licenses...


Am Mittwoch, 2. Mai 2012 02:14:48 UTC+2 schrieb Daniel Sokolowski:
Being realistic here we must acknowledge that likely the majority of us are great programmers but not great designers – none of the design proposed did it for me – they were not bad but they weren’t great, and I want epic, I want sexy and I want eye candy. 
 
So I say this: it is no shame to use a pre-existing, pre-made  template.
 
I have used http://themeforest.net/?ref=danols successfully in the past - yes it includes my referral link - an added benefit is we can get through the mock up and conversion phases very quickly. Some designs that caught my eye --- please note these are fluid designs hence table and smartphone ready, resize your browser window to see what I mean.
 
 
 
 
However
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:22 AM
So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com?
 
Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com could use a bit of a facelift.
 
I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
 
Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
 
Cheers,
Dana
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Buddy Lindsey, Jr.

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May 1, 2012, 9:53:09 PM5/1/12
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Russell Keith-Magee wrote:

* One of my personal goals for this redesign is to give more visibility to community resources. Over the last 6 years, we've had a number of unofficial projects come and done great service for the community -- django people, several packaging indices, and so on. However, many of these projects have died on the vine. I suspect one of the reasons that these projects has died is that they've never really been considered first class members of the community, and so it's mentally easy to abandon them rather than seeking to hand them off to a new maintainer. The only place I can see in Giovanni's design for this sort of community content would be to bury it in the footer, or on a separate part of the community page.


I came to Django from the Rails community and while I prefer Django over Rails one thing I was disappointed with on arrival was I didn't know "where" the Django community was, still not sure I do. Maybe the django community is quiter than the Rails community is, but if I didn't actively scour the internet I would think the community is dead which is one of my evaluations of using a technology.

my 2 cents on the community aspect.

Buddy Lindsey, Jr.

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May 1, 2012, 9:56:08 PM5/1/12
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um, not sure what happened to part of my response, but to summarize a missing paragraph I would like the design to consider showing more of the community as well.

Buddy Lindsey, Jr. wrote:
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Idan Gazit

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May 2, 2012, 1:32:23 AM5/2/12
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No premade templates.

I


On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Daniel Sokolowski wrote:

> Being realistic here we must acknowledge that likely the majority of us are great programmers but not great designers – none of the design proposed did it for me – they were not bad but they weren’t great, and I want epic, I want sexy and I want eye candy.
>
> So I say this: it is no shame to use a pre-existing, pre-made template.
>
> I have used http://themeforest.net/?ref=danols successfully in the past - yes it includes my referral link - an added benefit is we can get through the mock up and conversion phases very quickly. Some designs that caught my eye --- please note these are fluid designs hence table and smartphone ready, resize your browser window to see what I mean.
>
> http://themeforest.net/item/spectrum-responsive-business-site-template/full_screen_preview/2035034
> http://themeforest.net/item/doctype-claquette-responsive-video-html-template/full_screen_preview/2085780
> http://themeforest.net/item/valera-responsive-html-template/full_screen_preview/2194402
>
>
>
> However
> From: Dana Woodman (mailto:woodma...@gmail.com)
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:22 AM
> To: django-d...@googlegroups.com (mailto:django-d...@googlegroups.com)
> Subject: Redesign of djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com)?
>
>
>
> So now that Django is being moved to Git/Github (which is awesome!), maybe it would be a good time to think about a revamped home page for the project ala djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com)?
>
> Obviously this is no small undertaking and would be potentially contentions as to what would be the proper path, but I feel (and I don't think I'm alone) that djangoproject.com (http://djangoproject.com) could use a bit of a facelift.
>
> I have some idea of my own as to how this could be accomplished and I'm sure there are a ton of others out there with great ideas as well. Maybe we could open up some discussion on this idea?
>
> Forgive me if this has been proposed before as I'm new to the group!
>
> Cheers,
> Dana
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/-/g8ngEnVG_EsJ.
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> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en.
> Daniel Sokolowski
> Web Engineer
> Danols Web Engineering
> http://webdesign.danols.com/
>
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Anton Strogonoff

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May 2, 2012, 1:59:06 AM5/2/12
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Hi all!

I think it would be fair to note that Dana's mock-up (http://cl.ly/0U2C1O20133i0U3d1s3X/o) seems to solve most of the tasks mentioned by Russell, while avoiding information overload and keeping visual hierarchy clear. 

- If I seek to contribute to Django, the mock-up features a clear and visible “Contribute” link below.
- If I'm a manager new to Django, the first thing I'd look for is which companies already use the framework, and how. The “Who's using” block gives a solid clue on that. (I'd only suggest that the logos were links leading to actual use cases.)
- The DSF part is, however, missing: I'd suggest to place corresponding block below the quick start.


I agree that Giovanni's design probably lacks some of the features and not as clear as Dana's original mock-up. However, I would argue with Russell's point about “equally important calls to action”.

Yes, both proposals aren't optimized for all mentioned use cases equally well. The “Contribute” link is not visible enough, and the DSF block is below the fold, and there's not much community resources present. However, keeping clear visual hierarchy and limiting the number of calls to action according to use case priority is probably more important[1].


It appears to me that use cases for djangoproject.com clearly differ in their priority:

- If you're a developer or a manager choosing what to use in a new project, you're a valuable visitor, as broader adoption is desired. There's also a high chance you bounce off and won't come back, since there's quite a variety of web frameworks out there. So it probably makes sense to optimise for this use case.

- If you're a manager or developer who've already decided to give back to the community, you're probably more valuable, but it's also harder to drive you away. (Some time ago I remember myself searching current djangoproject.com on how to contribute to development, there wasn't any mention of that on landing page but I kept looking until I found relevant information.)

- If you're a developer returning for reference, you're unlikely to drop Django because of landing page. Also, you'll just use Google to search for relevant information, which would land you directly on documentation pages and StackOverflow.

Considering this, it probably makes sense to optimize for new potential users (managers and developers) first, then for those who seek to contribute. The Dana's mock-up IMHO would deal with that well with DSF / sponsorship block added at the bottom.

Note: The above list may be incomplete, or I might've gotten wrong the priorities. I'd just like to propose more systematic approach to the problem.


Regarding community visibility: It's probably impossible to place many community resources on landing page while keeping strong visual hierarchy and clear call to action. I'd argue Dana's design deals with this well: “Featured content” could expose one selected resource at a time, while the “Explore” block has the “Resources” and “Community” links that point to the rest.


[1] The larger is the number of calls to action and the more use cases the page is optimized for, the harder it is for a visitor to make a decision. http://muddylemon.com/2012/03/creating-effective-landing-pages/ explains that. Although it perhaps deals with landing pages of different sort, IMHO some principles are still applicable to general landing page design.


-- Anton Strogonoff

PS. At first I thought of djangoproject.com redesign as a good opportunity to give back to the community and show off my skills as aspiring web designer, but after seeing Dana's mock-up I decided I can't really suggest anything significantly better. =)

(PPS. It appears to be my first post here, please don't judge hard.)

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Atul Bhouraskar

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May 1, 2012, 10:00:32 PM5/1/12
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On 2 May 2012 11:56, Buddy Lindsey, Jr. <bu...@buddylindsey.com> wrote:
um, not sure what happened to part of my response, but to summarize a missing paragraph I would like the design to consider showing more of the community as well.


Buddy Lindsey, Jr. wrote:

Russell Keith-Magee wrote:


* One of my personal goals for this redesign is to give more
visibility to community resources. Over the last 6 years, we've had a
number of unofficial projects come and done great service for the
community -- django people, several packaging indices, and so on.
However, many of these projects have died on the vine. I suspect one
of the reasons that these projects has died is that they've never
really been considered first class members of the community, and so
it's mentally easy to abandon them rather than seeking to hand them
off to a new maintainer. The only place I can see in Giovanni's
design for this sort of community content would be to bury it in the
footer, or on a separate part of the community page.



I came to Django from the Rails community and while I prefer Django
over Rails one thing I was disappointed with on arrival was I didn't
know "where" the Django community was, still not sure I do. Maybe the
django community is quiter than the Rails community is, but if I
didn't actively scour the internet I would think the community is dead
which is one of my evaluations of using a technology.

my 2 cents on the community aspect.

I agree. One part could be to integrate the google group(s) into the site using google web elements e.g http://www.google.com/webelements/#!/groups

Regards,

Atul

Vladimir U.

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May 2, 2012, 3:03:53 AM5/2/12
to Django developers
i think, in all proposals lack of some mention about where i can find
django apps. Maybe its good idea to add a block with latest/popular
packages from pypi or/and djangopackages.com to the the main page or
just a link (hide/show subcategory).
[-]community
[+]packages
[+]blogs
...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10320/djangoproject/dp.com-home.png
lower block must stretch the width to left ("who use it") IMHO :)

Hooshyar Naraghi

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May 2, 2012, 12:22:11 PM5/2/12