Re: Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 15:35:15 GMT, abcdef wrote:

> Is price a reason?

Given Apple has arguably the finest MARKETING organization on the planet,
you can rest assured that Apple figured out that they'd make more money by
locking their loyal consumer into their restrictive headphone use model.

Rest assured, any price savings are NEVER passed on to that loyal customer.

Otherwise an equivalent iPhone wouldn't cost five times that a far more
functional but let's just say equivalent hardware Android device costs.

Details on the 5X price to 0X performance comparison are here:
iPhone 7 Plus v. LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk/n0FaH2e_DQAJ>

The 5-times less expensive Android phone has more functionality than any
iPhone could ever have (it has been often proven that even a five-year old
Android device has far more functionality than any iPhone ever made, for
example).

The five times more expensive 3-core (effectively) iPhone 7 Plus will have
its CPU speed (no longer secretly but still drastically and permanently)
cut to less than half in about a year, while the 8-core five times less
expensive equivalent phone will still maintain its CPU performance.

Meanwhile, the 8-core 5 times less expensive phone has a removable battery,
a 2TB sd card slot, a stylus, an FM radio, and, oh ... lest we forget, one
of those "courageous" headphone jacks!

Obviously it was long ago proven many times over that Apple iPhones provide
far less functionality to the users - but the price for Apple's loss of
functionality is five times more!

Those are all facts!

[abcdef]

On 8/18/2018 5:16 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 15:35:15 GMT, abcdef wrote:

>> Is price a reason?

> Given Apple has arguably the finest MARKETING organization on the
> planet

Dunno about that. I think I'd give Amazon that prize. My Fire tablets
make me look at an ad before I can even access them. Course I realize
that the tablets are sold cheap with that in mind. And IMO the ads are
well done and often interesting so I've never considered paying the $30
bribe/fee to get rid of them.

> you can rest assured that Apple figured out that they'd make more
> money by locking their loyal consumer into their restrictive
> headphone use model.

Headphone use never entered into my wife's decision to get Apple
products. She's bought them for years (tablet, phone, and recently a
watch). Not sure she even used any of the headphones that came with
them. I suspect most people don't buy their phones based on headphone
type either.

> Rest assured, any price savings are NEVER passed on to that loyal
> customer.

That's actually very good business sense if sales are good. Sure wish
I'd bought some Apple stock a few years back...

> The 5-times less expensive Android phone has more functionality than
> any iPhone could ever have

The wife has always liked Apple products because they just work. She can
do everything SHE wants to do on them without any technical know how. I
suspect that's why many folks buy them.

[Alan Baker]

Amazingly (to you, I'm sure), you saying 'Those are all facts!'...

...doesn't actually make them facts.

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 20:21:13 GMT, abcdef wrote:

>> Given Apple has arguably the finest MARKETING organization on the
>> planet
>
> Dunno about that. I think I'd give Amazon that prize.

I don't disagree where I'd still put Apple in the top ten for Marketing.
How else can you sell a phone for five times the price of a far more
functional phone as we noted in that thread I referenced.

Apple knows it's customers are filled with *fear*, so Apple plays to that
fear.

Apple knows its customers want style - so colors are a big deal each year.

Apple knows its customers jsut play games - so emojis are also a big deal.

Yet, Apple knows its customers just use the device as a mere toy, so
functionality isn't even close to their list of important things.

Nor is working in the real world, where the real world is "not supported",
nor even tested.

> My Fire tablets
> make me look at an ad before I can even access them. Course I realize
> that the tablets are sold cheap with that in mind. And IMO the ads are
> well done and often interesting so I've never considered paying the $30
> bribe/fee to get rid of them.

I never see ads.
For example, I watch all the YouTube videos I want for free, and I *never*
see a single ad. Never.

On the iPad - it's filled to the brim with ads.
But on Android - there are none.

That's what I mean about iOS being far less functional than Android.

> Headphone use never entered into my wife's decision to get Apple
> products. She's bought them for years (tablet, phone, and recently a
> watch). Not sure she even used any of the headphones that came with
> them. I suspect most people don't buy their phones based on headphone
> type either.

I agree.
I buy plenty of iOS equipment - mostly as gifts.
Yes, the recipients complain about the lack of a headphone jack.

But they bought into the Orwellian iOS restrictions - so - that's what they
get.

> That's actually very good business sense if sales are good. Sure wish
> I'd bought some Apple stock a few years back...

Understood. It's one of the most successful companies on the planet.

> The wife has always liked Apple products because they just work.

They don't actually work in the real world - and I can give you tons of
examples how.

What is *really* happening is that your wife uses iOS as a toy.
As a toy, it works fine.

Also, we proved long ago that the iOS user "just gives up" all day every
day. So your wife is like the people I give iOS devices to, mostly girls,
who aren't in the least technical.

They're so used to "just giving up" that they don't realize thye have to
just ive up all day every day. Basically iOS is crippled compared to
Android. But your wife doesn't even notice.

Likely she is happy to be imprisoned inside the walled garden.
And very very very likely she "just gives up" constantly.
Even more likely, she just punches buttons - so as long as she can figure
out the buttons to punch (she'll give up most of the time) she's happy.

Many millions of iOS users are like your wife.
They use the device just as a toy.
And that's OK.

Except that it's a VERY EXPENSIVE toy.
It can't do even the _simplest_ of things that we do on Android all day
every tday without even thinking about it.

If you challenge that, be prepared for a long list of things Android does
that iOS can't hope to do (starting with organizing your screen the way you
want, and then moving to debugging WiFI or setting defaults or recording
phone calls automatically or torrenting or just accessing your own files
over USB for heaven's sake! :()

Your wife likes the iOS toy because she isn't technical in the least almost
certainly. If she was, she'd hate iOS because it's basically crippled and
primitive (the launcher is stuck in a design of more than a decade old).

> She can
> do everything SHE wants to do on them without any technical know how. I
> suspect that's why many folks buy them.

I agree.
Toys have their place.
All iOS devices are toys.

If the user is OK with just giving up every day, and if they stay inside
the walled garden - and if they never do anything in the real world -
they're fine.

But it's still a toy.

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 22:14:16 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Amazingly (to you, I'm sure), you saying 'Those are all facts!'...
>
> ...doesn't actually make them facts.

The facts I posted are facts which *all* sentient adults agree with.
Facts are funny that way.

Only the Apple Apologists disagree with valid facts.

It's a trait of the Apple Apologists that facts don't fit into your
imaginary belief system.

For example, you dispute the facts a priori - and yet - you can't name a
single fact that was presented which isn't a fact.

It's amazing that people like you don't care one whit about your utter lack
of credibility. Facts are just silly games for you to play with.

I think, after pondering why you Apple Apologists are so immune to facts,
that you're all lacking in formal education.

While I'm extremely well educated, you have none.
It's clear as day - based on your utter aversion to facts.

You, Jolly Roger, Lewis, nospam, BK@ONRamp, etc, all of you likely don't
even have a high school education, and it's certain (IMHO) that you all
lack even an undergraduate degree.

You're all really _that_ ill educated.
Hence, to you, your credibility is worthless.

Nobody ever taught you that facts are never wrong - which is why I'm never
wrong - since I only speak facts.

To you, facts don't fit into your imaginary belief system.

It's obvious in everything you say - where you prove me right in every
post.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-18 10:26 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 22:14:16 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Amazingly (to you, I'm sure), you saying 'Those are all facts!'...
>>
>> ...doesn't actually make them facts.
>
> The facts I posted are facts which *all* sentient adults agree with.
> Facts are funny that way.

Assertions don't make it so.

>
> Only the Apple Apologists disagree with valid facts.

Assumes facts you haven't actually proven...

<rest of rant snipped>

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 22:28:56 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Assumes facts you haven't actually proven...

Do you see how its' so easy to see that you have no formal education?
You disdain facts - and yet - you can't name a single one.

All you Apple Apologists lack formal education.
It's sad actually ... that people like you are so ill educated.

You can't name a single fact about the hardware comparison you disagree
with. You didn't even _read_ the hardware comparison!

You know how I know that?
Hehheh ... you probably don't.

You're _that_ stupid.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-18 10:42 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 22:28:56 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Assumes facts you haven't actually proven...
>
> Do you see how its' so easy to see that you have no formal education?

Assumes facts you don't even have a way of knowing.

> You disdain facts - and yet - you can't name a single one.

I don't disdain facts.

I just don't accept that you saying "this is a fact" makes something an
actual fact.

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 22:45:28 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Assumes facts you don't even have a way of knowing.

Hehheh... proof you, Alan Baker, don't even know what facts you dispute!

Your entire dispute with facts is imaginary - like everything else for you.

*Facts don't fit into your imaginary belief system.*

You prove that in every post.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-18 10:52 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 22:45:28 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Assumes facts you don't even have a way of knowing.
>
> Hehheh... proof you, Alan Baker, don't even know what facts you dispute!

No, actually.

You've snipped your assertion (what a surprise)!

[abcdef]

On 8/18/2018 10:14 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> Apple knows its customers want style - so colors are a big deal each
> year.

Same with many Android phones (and tablets).

> On the iPad - it's filled to the brim with ads.

Where?

> But on Android - there are none.

Lots of ads on my Fire tablets currently running a forked Android 5.2.

> I buy plenty of iOS equipment - mostly as gifts. Yes, the recipients
> complain about the lack of a headphone jack.

Boy your gift recipients are really assholes. Give them a premium $$$
phone and all they can do is complain about a missing headphone jack??

> They [Apple products] don't actually work in the real world...

If Apple products didn't work to their customers satisfaction in the
real world then Apple certainly wouldn't be a rich company in the real
world.

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 23:20:43 GMT, abcdef wrote:

>> Apple knows its customers want style - so colors are a big deal each
>> year.
>
> Same with many Android phones (and tablets).

Not really. There is a huge *range* of Android devices.
The Apple devices don't have the range.

Also, the Android customer isn't driven by intense fear.
Ask *any* iPhone owner why they buy their iPhone.

You'll hear their intense *fear* come out most of the time.
Also the Apple customer is driven by style.

That's why they care about silly colors.
And, they don't care about actual functionality - for example, they care
greatly about silly childish emojis.

Clearly these are three factors of the typical iPhone customer:
a. Driven by fear
b. Driven by style
c. Doesn't care about functionality

>> On the iPad - it's filled to the brim with ads.
>
> Where?

We've had this discussion on the iPad/iPhone group so many times it's not
funny. On iOS, the YouTube app is filled to the brim with ads. So is the
Android YouTube app - but - get this - there's a free replacement for
YouTube which not only does MORE - but it never has ads.

We've discussed this so many times it's not funny.
(Where have you been?)

Here's just one...
Why doesn't iOS have a single free app that completely replaces the
YouTube app entirely (with far more powerful functionality)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/5b-iz8Uj7xU/TOPREZNPBAAJ>

>> But on Android - there are none.
>
> Lots of ads on my Fire tablets currently running a forked Android 5.2.

You haven't been paying attention.

Here's the hilarious attempt by the iOS Apologists to claim their wholly
imaginary functionality to combat the actual functionality of Android...
Nospam posted just now that New Pipe YouTube "red" functionality exists on
iOS
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/3nmdadrrl3s/ZTsS-QR5AAAJ>

>
>> I buy plenty of iOS equipment - mostly as gifts. Yes, the recipients
>> complain about the lack of a headphone jack.
>
> Boy your gift recipients are really assholes. Give them a premium $$$
> phone and all they can do is complain about a missing headphone jack??

They have every right to complain about lost functionality.

Almost everything about iOS is less functional than Android (which we've
proven time and again so many times that it's not funny).

Why would you ever state that expecting the most basic of functionality in
an iPhone is being an "asshole"?

>> They [Apple products] don't actually work in the real world...
>
> If Apple products didn't work to their customers satisfaction in the
> real world then Apple certainly wouldn't be a rich company in the real
> world.

Agreed.

The iPhone is one of the best MARKETED consumer devices in history.

It's not functional - but Apple knows the customer doesn't care.
a. The Apple customer is driven by abject *fear*, and,
b. The Apple customer is an ignorant slave to *style*, and,
c. The Apple customer is childishly wowed by silly toys (e.g., emojis).

We've discussed this many times in the past.
(Where have you been?)
iOS is really moving forward with this new announcement from Apple of "big
things" happening
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/m9aLeALeCWY/cICpfWs0BQAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Aug 2018 22:55:31 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> You've snipped your assertion (what a surprise)!

Bear in mind, all you _can_ do is play your silly games.
I've watched you Apple Apologists for more than a decade.

You're all children - just like you Alan Baker.
Stupid too. No education whatsoever.

You deny facts - and yet - you can't even *name* the facts you deny! :)
You're actually _that_ stupid, Alan Baker.

In fact, all you Apple Apologists are almost exactly alike.
What are well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ>

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-19 1:31 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 22:55:31 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> You've snipped your assertion (what a surprise)!
>
> Bear in mind, all you _can_ do is play your silly games.
> I've watched you Apple Apologists for more than a decade.

Explain why you suddenly snipped the claim to which I was replying.

<rest of ranting snipped>

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Aug 2018 06:48:12 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Explain why you suddenly snipped the claim to which I was replying.

I just added this latest Apple Apologist trait to the thread on the topic!
What are common psychological traits of the Apple Apologists?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ/LwsRbuq4DwAJ>

This is generally established proper Usenet protocol for quoting content:
<https://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.1>
You quote the singular concept you're responding to.

It's *another* trait of the Apple Apologists that, when they play their
silly semantic games, they expect everyone to play along with their silly
semantic games.

It's how they pull every thread off topic off the actual facts and
endlessly onto whatever silly game they're currently playing.

And yet - the topic is clear.

You, Alan Baker, deny facts - and yet - you don't even state which facts
you deny!

It's a common trait of all you Apple Apologists.
a. You deny facts a priori,
b. And yet - you can't even come up with a single fact that you deny!

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Aug 2018 06:55:17 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

> Haven't we seen this troll before? Why not just KF him?

Yes, Tim Streater. You are a well-known Apple Apologist troll.
Just like Alan Baker is.

Want me to point to proof on the Mac newsgroups of your idiocy?
Remember, I tell the truth. Always.

Hence, my facts are never wrong(*1).

Facts are funny that way.

BTW, just killfile me, Tim Streatoer.
Nothing you ever post will ever have a single iota of factual value anyway.

--
Out of tens of thousands of facts, I'm only human so I must have made a
factual mistake inadvertantely; but nobody can find a single one - where
you can rest assured the Apple Apologists have tried.

[abcdef]

On 8/19/2018 1:31 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2018 23:20:43 GMT, abcdef wrote:

>>> Apple knows its customers want style - so colors are a big deal
>>> each year.
>>
>> Same with many Android phones (and tablets).
>
> Not really. There is a huge *range* of Android devices. The Apple
> devices don't have the range.

You're mixing up one company (Apple) with an OS (Android-many
companies). Likely some Android companies have more color selections
than Apple and others less.

> Ask *any* iPhone owner why they buy their iPhone.

I would guess that they would say because they like it. Why would anyone
buy a expensive premium product they didn't like?

> Also the Apple customer is driven by style.

Many are driven by style, and not just in phones.

> That's why they care about silly colors.

Do you live in a pink and purple house? Probably not. So you also care
about colors...

>>> On the iPad - it's filled to the brim with ads.
>>
>> Where?
>
> We've had this discussion on the iPad/iPhone group so many times
> it's not funny. On iOS,

Not being an iOS owner myself I don't subscribe to any of the groups.
But I do seem to get sucked in often by cross-posters.

> the YouTube app is filled to the brim with ads. So is the Android
> YouTube app - but - get this - there's a free replacement for
> YouTube which not only does MORE - but it never has ads.

So the iPad itself isn't filled to the brim with ads as you said, just
the apps? Same on Android.

> Why doesn't iOS have a single free app that completely replaces the
> YouTube app entirely

Cause the numbers say people are happy with YouTube?

>> Lots of ads on my Fire tablets currently running a forked Android
>> 5.2.
>
> You haven't been paying attention.

Just dodging the facts ma'am... ;)

>>> I buy plenty of iOS equipment - mostly as gifts. Yes, the
>>> recipients complain about the lack of a headphone jack.
>>
>> Boy your gift recipients are really assholes. Give them a premium
>> $$$ phone and all they can do is complain about a missing
>> headphone jack??
>
> They have every right to complain about lost functionality.

Gift recipients have the right to complain, but apparently they don't
have the social smarts not to. Someone complains about a premium gift
from me and it will be their last. Course if they are suck up gifts to
your social or business betters then other rules apply...

[Your Name]

On 2018-08-19 17:55:39 +0000, abcdef said:

> On 8/19/2018 1:31 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On 18 Aug 2018 23:20:43 GMT, abcdef wrote:
>
>>>> Apple knows its customers want style - so colors are a big deal each year.
>>>
>>> Same with many Android phones (and tablets).
>>
>> Not really. There is a huge *range* of Android devices. The Apple
>> devices don't have the range.
>
> You're mixing up one company (Apple) with an OS (Android-many
> companies). Likely some Android companies have more color selections
> than Apple and others less.

People always do that silly comparison. They do the same with "Mac" vs
"PC", where they are loads of PC hardware makers.

>> Ask *any* iPhone owner why they buy their iPhone.
>
> I would guess that they would say because they like it. Why would anyone
> buy a expensive premium product they didn't like?

Apple's prices may be "premium", but they aren't over-priced. The high
end phones from other makers like Samsung cost about the same price ...
usually priced only a few dollars lower in a lazy attempt to undercut
Apple's price.

>> Also the Apple customer is driven by style.
>
> Many are driven by style, and not just in phones.
>
>> That's why they care about silly colors.
>
> Do you live in a pink and purple house? Probably not. So you also care
> about colors...

<snip>

There are a bazillion and one cases around for those who want a
different colour. Most people use a case of some sort with their mobile
phone (and many tablets) anyway, so the colour of the phone itself is
pretty irrelevant.

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Aug 2018 15:30:20 GMT, Your Name wrote:

> Apple's prices may be "premium", but they aren't over-priced. The high
> end phones from other makers like Samsung cost about the same price ...
> usually priced only a few dollars lower in a lazy attempt to undercut
> Apple's price.

You throw platitudes around without ever using your brain even once.

You, like nospam, can easily find ooodles of bad price-to-performance
hardware comparisons. They abound. Everywhere.

It takes zero brains for you to find _bad_ price-performance comparisons.
None.
ANd you proved that. In spades.

*It takes brains to find a good price-to-performance hardware comparison.*

For those with brains, you can get five (5) more functional 8-core Android
phones for the price of a single (1) far less functional 3-core iOS device.

And, that more-functional Android device will not be (secretly in the
past), drastically, and permanently throttled to less than half the
original CPU speeds in about a year.

Referencce for the hardware comparison:
iPhone 7 Plus vs LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk/n0FaH2e_DQAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Aug 2018 10:55:39 GMT, abcdef wrote:

> You're mixing up one company (Apple) with an OS (Android-many
> companies). Likely some Android companies have more color selections
> than Apple and others less.

Agreed.

I was comparing the ecosystems, where, the Apple ecosystem customer is
a. Consumed by an abject fear such that key decisions are fear based
b. Consumed by an intense desire to be stylish (e.g., colors)
c. Not at all concerned with actually app functionality (obviously)

There may be Android customers similarly almost completely consumed by fear
such that all their buying decisions are made simply to allay their intense
fears, where they'd buy into Android Marketing hype as much as the Apple
customer buys into Apple MARKETING hype.

>
>> Ask *any* iPhone owner why they buy their iPhone.
>
> I would guess that they would say because they like it. Why would anyone
> buy a expensive premium product they didn't like?

1. 2. 3.
Fear. Style. Walled-garden ease.

You can trust me when I say I've asked EVERY Apple owner I know well WHY on
earth they selected such a clearly non-functional product and they all say
the same things.

1. They feel that Apple protects them from harmful things
2. They feel that the iOS devices are "stylish"
3. They love that some things work well inside the walled garden

Fear.
Style
Walled garden.

That's why people buy iOS products.
Functionality is never on that list.

It can't be since clearly even a five-year old Android phone has more app
functionality than any iPhone ever made.

>> Also the Apple customer is driven by style.
>
> Many are driven by style, and not just in phones.

I bought an LG Stylo 3 Plus. Guess what color it came in.
Lots of people are not driven by trying to be stylish.

A simple test is that I could have bought a five-times-more expensive
iPhone 7 Plus, which would have been far less functional but which may have
been stylish to some.

But I don't care about style.
I don't care about colors.
My decisions aren't driven by abject fear.

I look for price-to-performance value.

You can buy five 8-core Android phones for the price of a 3-core far
less-functional but let's just say hardware equivalent iPhone for heaven's
sake.

People pay a *lot* for the illusion of style.

>> That's why they care about silly colors.
>
> Do you live in a pink and purple house? Probably not. So you also care
> about colors...

Ahem... the LG Stylo 3 Plus comes in one color (AFAIK).
Plus, my case is black so if the phone was any color, it wouldn't matter.

Rest assured I wouldn't pay five times the price for a less functional
iPhone simply for color.

And remember always, that *top* on the list of the MARKETING blurbs we've
seen from Apple, are "emojis" and "colors".

Always keep in mind if Apple puts such things top on their list, that Apple
knows the iPhone customer extremely well.

Never ever make the mistake of thinking Apple MARKETING isn't one of the
best in the world - where - if _they_ put color anywhere near the top -
then color is *extremely important* to iPhone customers!
Apple planning new iPhone X color option to restore sales
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/03/25/new-iphone-x-color-report/>

What's funny is that even the "tech news" parrots this meaningless color
thing...
<What iPhone X color should you buy>
https://www.imore.com/iphone-x-colors

iPhone X 2018: Apple Is Adding More Color To The iPhone Lineup
<https://www.inquisitr.com/4976372/iphone-x-2018-apple-is-adding-more-color-to-the-iphone-lineup-literally/>

iPhone X Colors: Tim Cook is pulling out all the stops.
<https://www.inverse.com/article/37671-apple-iphone-x-colors>

> Not being an iOS owner myself I don't subscribe to any of the groups.
> But I do seem to get sucked in often by cross-posters.

Suffice to say we've proven time and again that iOS is basically non
functional compared to Android when it comes to app functionality.

The well-proven summary is:
a. There's so much on Android not on iOS that it isn't funny
b. There is _nothing_ on iOS that isn't _already_ on Android

There is a good reason for all this - where it's a logical outcome of the
Orwellian restrictions Apple puts on the apps and abilities of those apps,
since the hardware is "about the same" year in and year out (where Apple
iOS devices are never on top but they are usually within the bottom of the
top ten in most hardware comparisons over the years).

> So the iPad itself isn't filled to the brim with ads as you said, just
> the apps? Same on Android.

Jesus. Try reading for comprehension.
Or clicking on the links.
Please - don't say stupid things like that.

Just read this article before you say stupid things like you just did.
I know you're not an Apple Apologist, so you're not being thick on purpose
- but you have to *think* before you say such things.

Please think first.
If I quote a reference, then don't refute the reference like Alan Baker
did, without even *reading* the reference for heaven's sake.

Is there a YouTube player with no ads app like AT New Pipe for Windows?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/b3vWA2G2HLI/IBnekmpWBwAJ>

Here's a quote from that *windows* & *android* post, for example:
All I am asking is if you know of a Windows YouTube red clone that
[1] Searches and plays any YouTube video
[2] Never ever requires a log in or account (to watch anything)
[3] Never shows ads no matter what
[4] Downloads the current video at the touch of a button
[5] Extracts and downloads the audio at the touch of a button
[6] Downloads any number of audios or videos in the background
[7] Without any effort whatsoever

Although, it was clear in that thread that Windows users are just as
fantastically clueless as Apple users sometimes.

Just like Apple users are stuck on the iTunes abomination as the only way
they can think, in that thread, the Windows users were stuck like you can't
believe on web-based solutions - even when the question had *nothing* to do
with the web.

>> Why doesn't iOS have a single free app that completely replaces the
>> YouTube app entirely
>
> Cause the numbers say people are happy with YouTube?

If you could get, for free, without any loss of functionality whatsoever,
the following, why wouldn't you do it?
[1] Never asks for a log in
[2] Searches for YouTube videos just like the YouTube app does
[3] Plays those YouTube videos just like the YouTube app does
[4] Plays any YouTube video you want (even age restricted stuff)
[5] Never shows an ad (without you doing anything by way of setup)
[6] Downloads those videos (any number of them, in the background)
[7] Extracts the audio (if desired), any number of them, in the bg

> Just dodging the facts ma'am... ;)

If I provide a reference, do not refute the reference without actually
*reading* it ... that's a common trait of the Apple Apologists like Alan
Baker - but it's not a trait of intelligent people.

> Gift recipients have the right to complain, but apparently they don't
> have the social smarts not to. Someone complains about a premium gift
> from me and it will be their last. Course if they are suck up gifts to
> your social or business betters then other rules apply...

These are all close relatives that I give gifts to.
Usually the less-technical girls want the Apple equipment.
The boys don't care. Usually they're far more functionally inclined.

Most kids I give the iPhones to don't seem to be driven so much by abject
fear (which nospam and Jolly Roger exude in many posts); they're more
driven by style and the ability to work smoothly inside the walled garden.

All users of iPhones must "just give up" all day, every day, simply because
the easiest things to do on Android can't easily be done on iOS - but most
kids, IMHO, who love Apple, don't even notice that they "just give up" all
the time since they aren't technically inclined.

So they "just give up" on Windows just as much as they do on the iPhone, in
my experience watching how they do things. As an example, they don't know
how to access read and write their entire visible iOS file system, using
only native software, simply by connecting the device to their desktop.

[nospam]

In article <pld7mo$tiq$8...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> What's funny is that even the "tech news" parrots this meaningless color
> thing...
> <What iPhone X color should you buy>

what color android phone should you buy:

<https://www.androidcentral.com/what-color-galaxy-s9-should-you-buy>
The Galaxy S9 and S9+ have very subtle design differences compared to
the Galaxy S8 and S8+, but one clear way to recognize them at a
glance are their new colors. Midnight Black, Lilac Purple, Coral
Blue, Titanium Gray and Sunrise Gold are the color options, and aside
from black they're all fresh hues we haven't seen before.

<https://www.androidcentral.com/what-color-htc-u11-should-you-buy>
The HTC U11's big design feature is its pristine curved glass back,
which has a unique color infusing process to bake the colors into the
glass rather than layering on top or underneath. It's a look that you
can't get from any other glass-backed phone, and it means you may be
taking extra care in choosing which color HTC U11 you want to buy.

<https://www.essential.com/blog/essential-phone-new-colors>
New, Limited Edition Colors: Ocean Depths, Stellar Gray and Copper
Black

<https://www.androidauthority.com/why-colors-matter-846211/>
Samsung Galaxy S9 in lilac purple
Huawei P20 in twilight
OnePlus 6 in mirror black and powder white
HTC U12 Plus in translucent blue

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Aug 2018 19:18:06 GMT, nospam wrote:

> what color android phone should you buy:

As you always do, nospam, you find the *worst* features of humans to blame
all of Apple's foibles upon Android ...

Hence, this is the most recent set of Apple Apologist traits you exhibit!
===========================================================================
. You brazenly & repeatedly fabricate wholly imaginary app functionality
. You then exclaim that it's been told to us many times how to do it!
...
. You almost never back up statements with actual referenced facts
. You incessantly play childish semantic games when faced with those facts
...
. You consistently fabricate quoted content that never happened
. You then wittily respond to that imaginary quoted content as if it did!
...
. You're never purposefully helpful by helping the OP answer the question
. You post worthless retorts, all of which lack any added technical value
...
. You consistently blame Android for most of Apple's app & hardware faults
. You consistently find the absolute worst price:performance comparisons
...
. You actually believe that a well-documented process is too complex!
. You literally believe elapsed time is proof of actual resolution time.
...
. You deny facts a priori - without even reading the referenced facts!
. And then you complain about quote snipping of your silly semantic games
===========================================================================

[abcdef]

On 8/19/2018 3:30 PM, Your Name wrote:

> There are a bazillion and one cases around for those who want a
> different colour.

My Motorola phone has a shatterproof screen (that I've unintentionally
tested a few times) so don't need the extra bulk of a case. However if I
were color conscious the rear panel can be replaced with different
color panels. But I'm not color conscious... :-/

[Your Name]

Cases aren't just in case of dropping the phone. Many cases aren't
really much help for that anyway.

They are really to help with normal wear and tear, and scuffing such as
scratching against keys, or those weird old things called coins" ;-) in
pockets ... but in today's throw-away society that isn't as much of a
concern for many people since they'll bin the old phone and buy a new
one when the next latest model gets released.

[abcdef]

On 8/20/2018 12:13 AM, Your Name wrote:

>> My Motorola phone has a shatterproof screen (that I've
>> unintentionally tested a few times)

When the Motorola Droid Turbo 2 (Verizon branding in the US, called a
Moto X Force elsewhere) first came out, it was advertised as the world's
first shatterproof screen. So of course lots of people wanted to test it
for YouTube. Most just dropped it from various heights using ladders,
etc. But the funny one was a guy who ran over it with a car. The screen
survived but... the phone broke. :)

For the iPeople here there's also a video some of you may remember of a
guy who stood in line for an hour or so to buy a 1st day newly released
iPhone. While he was opening the box for the first time in front of a
local TV news crew he fumbled and dropped it shattering the screen. Talk
about having a bad day. :(

You may wonder why I think the first story funny and the second sad
since in both cases the phone broke. Well IMO the Android guy was asking
for it doing a dumb thing while the iGuy was just having a bad day.

Yes Arlen, there are a number dumb Android owners out there, Check it
out on your YouTube... ;)

> Cases aren't just in case of dropping the phone. Many cases aren't
> really much help for that anyway.

The wife's iPhone 8+ has a popsocket AND a makeup mirror glued to the
back of its case. Wonder how it will survive a drop... 8-O

> They are really to help with normal wear and tear, and scuffing such
> as scratching against keys, or those weird old things called coins"
> ;-) in pockets ...

My phone is now 2 years old (just paid off). It's in pretty good shape
but I usually carry it in a belt holster. Going into Disneyland they
made me lift my shirt cause it looks like I'm carrying...

> but in today's throw-away society that isn't as much of a concern for
> many people since they'll bin the old phone

I've always give my old phones to one of my grandkids and they use them
for a small tablet (like an iPod).

> and buy a new one when the next latest model gets released.

Hmmmm. Interesting thought. And my phone is reallly old...