Good $200 Android phone please

[Andy Burnelli]

A friend in Capitola asked me for advice on a good inexpensive Android
phone. She's on a 16GB Metro-PCS phone (she first said it was T-Mobile).

It's not T-Mobile because I told her T-Mobile would give her a REVVL for
free but she called her carrier who said they are not the real T-Mobile.
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/t-mobile-revvl-v-plus-5g>

I have the Samsung Galaxy A32-5G which on Amazon seems to be over her $200
budget (it's about $275 to $300 as far as I can tell, for 64GB & 4GBRAM).

I have an old Moto-G with a broken USB port that I liked so I suggested the
Moto G series but she told me there are too many (she's kind of right).

I'm thinking the Moto G Power but even those seem to have multiple versions.
I don't know her hot buttons but I don't think it's 5G or screen size.
The only hot buttons I know are she's on Metro-PCS and 16GB is too small.

Any good suggestions that others can benefit from?

[John B.]

See
https://www.amazon.com/Android-Phone-Under-200-Dollars/s?k=Android+Phone+Under+200+Dollars
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Nil]

On 15 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> I have the Samsung Galaxy A32-5G which on Amazon seems to be over
> her $200 budget (it's about $275 to $300 as far as I can tell, for
> 64GB & 4GBRAM).

How's that A32 working out for you? I bought one in late November from
Tracfone, and I had terrible problems with it. Once or more almost
every day the display would go garbled and it would then reboot itself
multiple times. I later found quite a few negative reviews of the phone
that mentioned the exact same symptoms I had. I liked the phone when it
worked but I had to return it.

[Chris Green]

If she's prepared to go "off piste" then Umidigi are good value for
money.

--
Chris Green
·

[s|b]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 02:11:09 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Any good suggestions that others can benefit from?

Maybe have a look at <https://www.gsmarena.com/> ?

--
s|b

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 03:25:46 -0500, Nil wrote:

> How's that A32 working out for you?

Thanks for asking, especially given I didn't chose the phone - T-Mobile did.

The answer is I love that free 64GB 8-core 4GB RAM Samsung Galaxy A32-5G!
I would have thought that a completely "free" phone would be a compromise.

But it's the best budget phone I've owned to date given my last budget phone
was a $100 Moto-G7 (on sale from Google) and before that it was an $130 LG
Stylo 3+ (on sale at Costco).

Like almost all Android phones, it has a headphone jack & sdcard slot.

So far I've installed over 700 apps on it and it works great.
I even upgraded the 64GB sdcard to 400GB ($50 at Costco, not even on sale!).

> I bought one in late November from
> Tracfone, and I had terrible problems with it.

Bummer. Almost every "budget phone" review I see has the A32-5G on it.
<https://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android-phones>

Even reviews for _other_ budget phones list the A32-5G as being better!
<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g-power-2022>

This article compares the $200 Moto G Power 2022 (unlocked) with the $275
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (unlocked) both of are great phones.

The main difference is the free fast 5G which people may not need or want.
My net speeds are sometimes in the 200Mbps range at home in the boonies!
<https://i.postimg.cc/C5vgmtRd/speedtest15.jpg> *130Mbps to 255Mbps*

> Once or more almost
> every day the display would go garbled and it would then reboot itself
> multiple times.

Sounds like a software problem you're having - not a hardware problem.
I upgraded to Android 11 even as both Android 10 & Android 11 worked great.

I did have a _hardware_ problem (of my own doing) where I destroyed the USB
port (it's the second phone, actually third, I've done that on).

T-Mobile replaced it under warranty.
T-Mobile even gave me a credit for the $20 I had to spend at the store to
trade the old one in (since they have to physically check it out first).

> I later found quite a few negative reviews of the phone
> that mentioned the exact same symptoms I had. I liked the phone when it
> worked but I had to return it.

I have not seen even a _single_ negative review for the Galaxy A32-5G.
Can you name just one negative review for us so we can take a look please?

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:21:53 +0700, John B. wrote:

> See
> https://www.amazon.com/Android-Phone-Under-200-Dollars/s?k=Android+Phone+Under+200+Dollars

Normally links to huge lists are usually useless copouts... but this list
has one thing I didn't know about which is a search for "<200" dollars.

That's nice to know it exists.

Before I look, I have to say that my problem is I don't _know_ Android
phones all that well. So a list will only be a price cutoff and nothing
else. It won't tell me which is the best to recommend in the least.

It's not even a superset, really, since it's just what's on Amazon.

I should point out that I need an _educated_ list - not just a list.
The fact is that I only know the phones that I use myself, and even then I
don't pick those by features so much as by price.

Case in point are my last three phones, which were good, but bought on
price, almost always in bulk as "stocking stuffer" gifts for the family.
2021 April T-Mobile free handful of 64GB Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phones.
2019 Black Friday $100 Google sale for a handful of 64GB Moto G7 phones.
2017 Christmas Eve Costco $130 sale for a handful of LG Stylo 3+ phones.

The good news is I get them back after a few years (as a family trade-in of
sorts, I guess), where I have so many Android phones now it's not funny. :)

Looking at that ad-hoc list, it doesn't tell us which is a good buy, for
example, I consider "some" pixels a terrible buy, for a bunch of reasons,
not the least of which is they screw you with their Apple-like tricks.

But it does tell us what she can get for around two hundred dollars today.
<https://www.amazon.com/Android-Phone-Under-200-Dollars/s?k=Android+Phone+Under+200+Dollars>

Here are the 16 phones on page 1 of 3 that resulted (in their order)
$195 Moto G7 Plus | Unlocked | 4/64GB | 16MP Camera | 2019 | Black
$210 OnePlus Nord N200 | 5G Unlocked Android Smartphone U.S Version |
$180 Samsung Galaxy A12 | US Version | 32GB | Black
$190 TCL 20 SE | Unlocked | 4GB RAM + 128GB ROM, US Version Android 11
$160 TCL 10 SE Unlocked,4GB RAM + 64GB ROM, 4000mAh
$100 Mode Phone Unlocked 64GB Dual SIM Smartphone 2022-6.52" HD, 13MP Tri...
$150 Nokia G10 | Android 11 | Unlocked | Dual SIM | US Version | 3/32GB
$120 Nokia 1.4 | Android 10 | Unlocked | Dual SIM | US Version| 2/32GB
$170 Ulefone Note 11P 4G Unlocked Octa-Core 8GB + 128 | Android 11
$170 Samsung Galaxy S9 G960U 64GB Unlocked GSM 4G LTE (Renewed)
$200 Nokia G20 | Android 11 | Unlocked | Dual SIM | US Version | 4/128GB
$160 TCL 20 SE Android 11 | Unlocked | 4GB+128GB 5000mAh 48MP Quad
$180 TCL 10L, Unlocked 64GB+6GB RAM, 4000mAh
$95 ZTE Blade A5 2020 (32GB, 2GB) Dual SIM GSM Unlocked US 4G LTE
$160 Ulefone Note 9P (2020) Android 10 Unlocked
$180 TCL 10L Android 11 Unlocked 6+64GB

Here are the second 16 phones on page 2 of that sort
$180 TCL 10L
$130 Blackview A80s
$170 Samsung Galaxy A21
$190 Samsung Galaxy S9+
$185 Samsung Galaxy A12 Nacho
$160 Oukitel C21
$120 Pixel 3 XL (renewed)
$130 Blackview BV5500
$85 Ulephone Note 8 (2020)
$90 Ulephone Note 6 (2021)
$110 Blackview A80
$??? Samsung Galaxy Note 8
$220 Samsung Galaxy A10s
$2125 Moto G Power 2021
$200 Blu G91 pro
$190 Samsung Galaxy A12

And here are the phones that are on that list on the last page.
$185 Samsung Galaxy S9
$30 TracFone Blu View 2
$160 Oukitel C21
$??? Nokia 5.4
$170 Blu G9 Pro
$370 Blackberry Priv STV100-1 (how did that get on the list?)
$190 Samsung Galaxy A12
$100 Nokia C20 2021
$100 TCL A30
$155 TCL 10L
$115 Samsung Galaxy A10e
$110 Vbestlife IP12 Pro+
$190 Cubot Kingkong 5 Pro
$??? Samsung Galaxy A32-5G Boost Carrier Locked
$160 Samsung Galaxy A50

What's interesting is that long list doesn't have either of the two phones I
recommended to the user (as I was in a rush for time) but she hasn't bought
anything yet.

So this list doesn't change what I recommended but it's nice to know that
what I recommended is _better_ than anything on this list (so far anyway).

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:09:29 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

> If she's prepared to go "off piste" then Umidigi are good value for
> money.

She came to me because she knows that, in general, I research things to get
a good price on them based on their price-performance characteristics.

I don't really know phones though, as I buy handfuls of them as stocking
stuffers mostly, and I just keep one of those in the handful for myself.

2021 April T-Mobile free handful of 64GB Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phones.
2019 Black Friday $100 Google sale for a handful of 64GB Moto G7 phones.

2017 Christmas Costco $130 sale for a handful of 32GB LG Stylo 3+ phones.

Case in point is I have never heard of "Umidigi" (nor even "off piste")
<https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/off-piste>

Looking up Umidigi phones <https://www.umidigi.com/> it looks like there are
ten to choose from based on this "ALL SMARTPHONES UMIDIGI" link below
<https://phonesdata.com/en/smartphones/umidigi/>
Umidigi Bison GT
Umidigi Bison Pro
Umidigi Bison X10
Umidigi Bison X10 Pro
Umidigi Bison X10G
Umidigi Power 5
Umidigi A9
Umidigi X10S
Umidigi A11
Umidigi A11 Pro Max

I ended up recommending _exactly_ what is in this one review
(but at the time I was completely unaware of these "umidigi" phones!)
<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g-power-2022>

It will be nice to see how the Umidigi phones compare in reviews.
<https://www.review-hub.co.uk/best-umidigi-smartphones/>

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:20:36 +0100, s|b wrote:

>> Any good suggestions that others can benefit from?
>
> Maybe have a look at <https://www.gsmarena.com/> ?

The problem with lists of lists like <https://www.gsmarena.com/> has is they
don't seem to have the short list of a handful of phones that I seek.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/res.php3?sSearch=budget+android+best>
"No results. Searching by feature? Try this."

Given she knows whenever I buy anything, I check it out for price
performance value, she (erroneously) figured I'd know smartphones also.

But what she doesn't know is that most of my smartphones are bought in bulk
as stocking stuffers since that's when I need a handful of them each year.

2021 April T-Mobile free handful of 64GB Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phones

2019 Black Friday $100 Google sale for a handful of 64GB Moto G7 phones

2017 Christmas Costco $130 sale for a handful of 32GB LG Stylo 3+ phones

My first look was to the reviews of the best cheap Android phones such as:
<https://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android-phones>
But they extoll the virtues of Pixels first and foremost, where I deplore
what Google has done in following the customer unfriendly Apple tricks.

So it would be difficult for me to recommend _any_ Pixel phone, but that
review did mention the Moto G series so then I next looked them up for her.
<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g-power-2022>

Most people who ask such questions don't seem to want a list of lists.
What they want is a single phone that they can go out and just buy today.

To that end, I told her to get the Moto G Power 2022 as advertised above,
but even then, it apparently comes in two models, which she has to get.
a. Unlocked globally
b. Optimized for AT&T

If anyone knows _how_ to tell (just by looking at it perhaps?) which Moto G
Power 2022 any given sales offering is, please let me know as I don't know
how to tell her to make sure she gets the globally unlocked one and not the
one that is apparently optimized for AT&T.

What does that even mean to be "optimized for AT&T?"

[Nil]

On 16 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

>> Once or more almost
>> every day the display would go garbled and it would then reboot
>> itself multiple times.
>
> Sounds like a software problem you're having - not a hardware
> problem. I upgraded to Android 11 even as both Android 10 &
> Android 11 worked great.
>
> I did have a _hardware_ problem (of my own doing) where I
> destroyed the USB port (it's the second phone, actually third,
> I've done that on).
>
> T-Mobile replaced it under warranty.
> T-Mobile even gave me a credit for the $20 I had to spend at the
> store to trade the old one in (since they have to physically check
> it out first).
>
>> I later found quite a few negative reviews of the phone
>> that mentioned the exact same symptoms I had. I liked the phone
>> when it worked but I had to return it.
>
> I have not seen even a _single_ negative review for the Galaxy
> A32-5G. Can you name just one negative review for us so we can
> take a look please?

All of these sites below, including Samsung's own (!) have reviews
that describe exactly what I experienced - screen corruption and
repeated spontaneous reboots. Could have been a hardware or a
software issue, but none of my troubleshooting actions helped.
I didn't think I should have to jump through such hoops for a
brand new phone, and my return window was going to close, so
back it went. Still have not received credit for yet, but that's
another story.

Like I said, I liked the phone when it worked - nice size, nice
expandability, great performance. One thing I hated, which I
already knew from other experiences, but this reminded me:
Samsung loads such a lot of incomprehensible, annoying, unnecessary,
unwanted goop. I disabled and uninstalled as much as I could but a
lot of their apps I have no idea what they did, and no amount of
Googling made me any wiser. I will probably avoid Samsung phones
in the future.

I wound up with a Google Pixel 5a (5G). I little smaller than I
would have liked, a bit slower than the Samsung, but solid and
reliable and blessedly free of pre-loaded "helpful" apps. Plus
at least 3 years of Android upgrades.

https://www.tracfone.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-prepaid

https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones/tw-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-s326dl

https://www.straighttalk.com/all-phones/samsung-galaxy-a32

https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-a/galaxy-a32-5g-unlocked-sm-a326uzkuxaa/

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 20:06:56 -0500, Nil wrote:

> https://www.tracfone.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-prepaid
>
> https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones/tw-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-s326dl
>
> https://www.straighttalk.com/all-phones/samsung-galaxy-a32
>
> https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-a/galaxy-a32-5g-unlocked-sm-a326uzkuxaa/

You have a different idea of what is meant by a professional phone review.

1st link is just a tracfone sales page which sells a phone for $300
<https://www.tracfone.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-prepaid>
It has 183 reviews which span from 1 star to 5 stars with an average of 3.4
stars. The reviews span the gamut since they come from non professionals.

Same with the second link which has 121 reviews, also 3.1 stars average.
<https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones/tw-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-s326dl>

Same with the third link but with only 14 reviews averaging 1.3.
<https://www.straighttalk.com/all-phones/samsung-galaxy-a32>

That last link has a 2.4 rating out of 71 customer reviews.
https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-a/galaxy-a32-5g-unlocked-sm-a326uzkuxaa/

I don't doubt there are people who hate tracfones (as shown in the reviews)
but what I was asking for was a _real_ review by professional people.

Like this, only with a _bad_ rating on the Samsung Galaxy A325G
<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g>
*Affordable 5G in a sturdy package*
"THE BOTTOM LINE
The Samsung Galaxy A32 5G's excellent battery life, solid network
connectivity, and impressive design are a winning combination for
budget-phone shoppers."

Pros:
Handsome design
Durable Gorilla Glass 5 display
Capable cameras
Long battery life
Impressive performance for the price
Excellent software upgrade policy

CONS
Low-resolution display
Mediocre speaker
Backplate scratches easily

"The low-resolution display aside, there's very little to dislike about the
Galaxy A32 5G; it's an excellent value and a winner of our Editors' Choice
award for budget-friendly 5G phones."

Can you find even a _single_ professional review with a bad rating for it?

[Nil]

On 16 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

"Professional reviews" are what convinced me to buy this lemon in the
first place. They mean nothing now. I DO care about the many reports
from otherwise unrelated users who see the phone misbehaving in EXACTLY
the same way I did, and have pictures (that look just like mine) to
prove it. That is undeniable proof that there is a general problem with
this model phone.

"For just over 2 months it worked quite nicely until about 2 weeks ago.
The phone suddenly began to repeatedly turn itself on and off, BY
ITSELF, and when it’s actually on now, the screen pixelates and goes
black."

"Then about a month ago it started having a screen with digital static
and would lock-up. The phone will go into a series of reboots taking 19
to 30 minutes."

"when I reboot the phone all it does is pixcelate and restarts by
itself again and again."

"All of a sudden, a strange pattern of boxes and x's appeared on the
screen for about 20 seconds while blinking the whole 20 seconds, and
then the screen went dark."

"The phone suddenly began to repeatedly turn itself on and off, BY
ITSELF, and when it’s actually on now, the screen pixelates and goes
black."

"THE PHONE TURNED ON AND OFF BY IT SELF,THERE ARE PICKCELS AND BLACK
OUTS."

"During initial setup the phone display became garbled and it rebooted
itself several times before finally stabilizing. A couple of days later
it did it again. And next day again. And so on. I see several other
reviews mentioning these exact same symptoms, so I have to conclude
that there is a general problem with this device."

"I've had the pixilated screen and then it just shuts off and won't
turn back on. Luckily, I kept my old phone so I could use that while
trying to get this one to reboot. I've had this happen about four
times."

"Just received this phone (Galaxy A32 5g) and as I was trying to get it
activated, it keep rebooting to the factory reset screen AND with
garbage colors on the screen."

"Screen went into "matrix" mode and died 30 sec later..got a picture of
it before it died second time around."

"Both phones have gone into endless reboot looping multiple times
requiring a hard reset. My wife's phone I've been able to recover from
this, my phone I've had to do a factory reset on twice now. Both phones
have gone into "Matrix Mode", it took me a while to be able to grab the
other phone to be able to catch a picture of it before it started boot
looping again."

"was so happy with it until I turned it off to go to sleep and it went
into Matrix mode. screen goes all pixels can't push any buttons stays
on and then turns on and off like 10x in a row before coming back to
home screen. We returned it and got a brand new A32 and not even 3 days
later same thing this phone does NOT like to be turned off at all. If
you turn it off it will go into Matrix mode and continue to restart
itself and you can't do anything until it's burning hot and decides
it's done. It turns off and turns on turns off and turns on all by
itself without even going all the way to the home screen it's like it's
frozen in reboot."

"it keep resetting and the screen has scrambled 3 times. I called Total
Wireless and they were no help. They wanted to do factory reset on a
new phone otherwise they wouldn't replace it. The phone hasn't
scrambled again, but it has reset itself several time."

"screen went black (2nd time doing this) and the did a "matrix" pattern
on the screen (again, 2nd time doing this), and then shut off. It would
not come back on, even with the customer service rep's directions."

"It reboots itself whenever it wants, and sometimes it incessantly
reboots, shuts off, turns on, and goes through that cycle a few times
before settling down and functioning properly. Many times it has
stopped in the middle of whatever I was doing and freezes. The screen
looks like the old TV test screens."

"The phone crashes ALL THE TIME!! Turn off and on its own ALL THE
TIME!! I have issues getting the phone to turn back on. When I get it
to turn back on the screen is messed up and AGAIN11 I have to fight
with it to turn it back on."

"Phone crashes all the time, turns on and off on its own."

"Screen gets all jumbled up. phone now turns off and on until battery
goes dead."

"Would work for 2/3 days and then would get pixels and it would turn
itself off and then couldn't turn on for 3 days!!"

"After 1 week it started constantly rebooting. The screen would
Pixelelate like an old defective VGA card in a computer. The only way
to shut it down is to hold power and volume up keys. Would only power
back up if I plugged it in. Finally was able to get into setup and
reset the phone. Worked for 2 days then started again."

"Keeps turning on and off and eventually after five minutes or so it
doesn't turn on at all."

[sms]

On 1/17/2022 12:06 AM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> "Keeps turning on and off and eventually after five minutes or so it
> doesn't turn on at all."

One lemon of a phone might not mean much.

However, for mid-range phones, it's probably best to wait for phones
with the Qualcomm 780G 5nm chipset which will be higher performance and
run cooler than the 778g 6nm chipset. Mass production of the 778g
chipset has been delayed due to fab capacity issues.

For a $200, unsubsidized, Android phone, at this time, I'd probably not
go the 5G route and stick with a 4G LTE phone. 5G phones run hotter
(unless you turn of 5G) with poorer battery life, for no real benefit to
the user in most cases (unless your carrier has capacity issues with 4G
LTE).

Once you eschew 5G there are a lot of decent $200 or less phones out there.

I recently got a Samsung Galaxy A51 4G phone for $88.99 (+ tax) from
Tracfone (with a year of service on Verizon. It's been fine though I
only bought it so after a year I can get it unlocked and provide it to
one of the people on my Verizon/Total Wireless family plan that is hard
on phones.

The major drawback of the A series, for me, is the lack of wireless
charging. Another weird thing is that Samsung Pay is no longer
officially supported on A series phones but you can download and install
the Samsung Pay apk file and Samsung Pay works just fine (even MST
works!). I only care about Samsung Pay for its MST capability since I
can use it at many merchants that don't take Apple Pay or Google Pay.

[sms]

On 1/16/2022 1:09 AM, Chris Green wrote:

<snip>

> If she's prepared to go "off piste" then Umidigi are good value for
> money.

Yes, at $200 it'll probably be necessary to go to an off-brand for an
unsubsidized phone. Every time I see "Umidigi" I think of the bizarre
rip-off "Freedom Phone," <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umidigi_A9>
where the A9 Pro is being sold for 3x what it sells for elsewhere (see
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001468394552.html>).

What the person could do, if they are staying on Metro, is to first port
their existing number to Google Voice then sign up as new customer to
Metro and take advantage of a subsidized phone
<https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/shop/phones>. I'd get the OnePlus Nord
N10 5G.

The person should consider switching to a different carrier, with a
subsidized phone, considering that she lives in Capitola. While
T-Mobile/Metro has good coverage in the city of Capitola, when you look
at the surrounding area the situation is very different. I ran the FCC
maps for that area, see <https://i.imgur.com/tMBlHcC.png>. I added this
to the document "Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and
Verizon" <https://tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons/>.

[sms]

On 1/16/2022 1:09 AM, Chris Green wrote:

<snip>

> If she's prepared to go "off piste" then Umidigi are good value for
> money.

Whatever she buys, if she's staying on T-Mobile/Metro she should ensure
that the phone supports Band 71, i.e.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/283935841338>.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 03:06:23 -0500, Nil wrote:

> "Professional reviews" are what convinced me to buy this lemon in the
> first place. They mean nothing now. I DO care about the many reports
> from otherwise unrelated users who see the phone misbehaving in EXACTLY
> the same way I did, and have pictures (that look just like mine) to
> prove it. That is undeniable proof that there is a general problem with
> this model phone.

I get it you want to rant against the $280 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phone.
Or maybe you just want to rant against "tracfone" (whatever that is).

All I'm asking you to find is even a _single_ bad review from the pros.
*Name just one*

> "For just over 2 months it worked quite nicely until about 2 weeks ago.
> The phone suddenly began to repeatedly turn itself on and off, BY
> ITSELF, and when it’s actually on now, the screen pixelates and goes
> black."

Given nobody can find even a _single_ bad professional review of this phone,
and given all your complaints are apparently from the tracfone (whatever
that is), maybe it's the carrier software added to the phone you have?

Or, maybe it has something to do with the additional added software?
Did you even bother to do a factory reset, for example (as a test)?

> "Keeps turning on and off and eventually after five minutes or so it
> doesn't turn on at all."

I've seen so many reviews of something as simple as a brake pad where the
reviews from the boy racers out there run the gamut and yet not a single one
of those reviews mentions the most important factor possible for any brake
pad, which is the friction coefficient (both cold & hot) that is printed on
_every_ pad ever sold in the United States (because it _is_ important).
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brake+pad+friction+coefficient+edge+code>

Worse, you find these boy racers complaining that, oh say, Axxis pads stop
better than PBR, when the brake codes show they're the _exact_ same pads!
<http://www.safebraking.com/decrypting-brake-pad-edge-codes/>

My point is that any review that doesn't mention pad cold/hot friction
coefficients that still says it stops better (or worse) than some other pad
(where they also don't mention the friction coefficients), is a review from
a moron - just like the reviews you're quoting appear to be from morons.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=axxis+versus+pbr+brake+pad+reviews>

The fact remains all you can find are tracfone (whatever that is) reviews.
Where are your professional reviews of the phone you deprecate so easily?
*Name just one*

> "Would work for 2/3 days and then would get pixels and it would turn
> itself off and then couldn't turn on for 3 days!!"

If you can find even a _single_ professional review of the Samsung Galaxy
A32-5G that you claim says it has these problems out of the box, name it.
*Name just one*

> "Phone crashes all the time, turns on and off on its own."

The fact remains that this thread is about choosing a budget phone in the
$200 range where there are a few good ones, almost all of which have the
industry standard headphone jack & an industry standard sdslot & most have
batteries so huge that you seemingly can jumpstart your car off of them.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=best+budget+android+or+apple+phone+2022>

*The Best Cheap Phones for 2022*
<https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-cheap-phones>
$200 Motorola Moto G7 Plus 64GB Unlocked $199.76 (List $249.99)
$600 Google Pixel 6 5G 128GB Unlocked ($599.00)
$600 Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G 128GB Unlocked for $599.99 (List $699.99)
$700 Samsung Galaxy S21 FE 5G 128GB With $100 Gift Card (List $799.99)
$1080 Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max 128GB With $100 Gift Card ($1,080.00)

*The best cheap phones in 2022* <== they defined "cheap" as under $400
<https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-cheap-phones>
$275 Moto G Power
$280 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G
$300 OnePlus Nord N200
$350 Google Pixel 4a
$400 Apple iPhone SE

*Best cheap phones in the US 2022*
<https://www.techradar.com/best/best-cheap-phones>
Under $200 -> Moto G Fast
Under $300 -> Moto G Power (2020)
Under $400 -> iPhone SE 2020
Under $500 -> Google Pixel 4a 5G
Under $600 -> Samsung Galaxy S10e

*The best budget phones of 2022* (they range from under $200 to under $500)
<https://versus.com/en/phone/budget>
Moto G Power
Moto G Stylus
TCL 20 Pro 5G
Samsung Galaxy A71 5G
iPhone SE (2020)
OnePlus Nord N10 5G

I've already made my recommendation, which, to keep it simple and to keep it
within the requirements of a great phone under $200, it's the Moto G Power
2022 (but others would fit that requirement that are almost as good).

If she wants 5G, I'll add $75 over her $200 limit for the Samsung Galaxy
A32-5G; but that depends on whether or not she even has a data plan.

Luckily, _everyone_ on T-Mobile USA postpaid gets not only a free 5G phone
but everyone postpaid who had _any_ data is upgraded for free to unlimited.

But she's on a T-Mobile MVNO apparently, so all bets are off on that deal.

[Nil]

On 19 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> All I'm asking you to find is even a _single_ bad review from the
> pros.
> *Name just one*

Why? Is that what makes you think there is no problem with this phone.
Do not dozens of user reports mean anything to you?

Nice attempt to change the goalposts, by the way.

> Given nobody can find even a _single_ bad professional review of
> this phone, and given all your complaints are apparently from the
> tracfone (whatever that is), maybe it's the carrier software added
> to the phone you have?

They are not all from Tracfone. If you had looked at the links I
provided you would know that. Some of the reviews are from Samsung's
own store.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:54:11 -0500, Nil wrote:

> Why? Is that what makes you think there is no problem with this phone.
> Do not dozens of user reports mean anything to you?

Dozens of similarly moronic users report Axxis pads better than PBR when the
only difference is that Axxis pads cost more (due to marketing reasons).
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=review+compare+axxis+versus+pbr+brake+pads>

What many of the reviews suggest for a 5G budget phone is the Galaxy A32-5G.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=best+5G+budget+smartphone+2022>

What many other reviews suggest are Pixels and at the low end, a Motorola.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=best+android+budget+smartphone+2022>

To be fair, there are a few different Motorola budget phones with similar
sounding names which makes suggesting a Moto phone to others a bit harder.
*What does it mean for a phone to be "optimized for AT&T's network"*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/zXLGKZ95WwM>

> Nice attempt to change the goalposts, by the way.

It's always the trolls claiming the goalposts are changed when the goal post
is written in big bold letters in the SUBJECT line of this (& every) thread.
*Good $200 Android phone please*

What does _your_ tracfone rant have to do with that clarion clear goalpost?

>> Given nobody can find even a _single_ bad professional review of
>> this phone, and given all your complaints are apparently from the
>> tracfone (whatever that is), maybe it's the carrier software added
>> to the phone you have?
>
> They are not all from Tracfone. If you had looked at the links I
> provided you would know that. Some of the reviews are from Samsung's
> own store.

Since the tracfone is a 5G phone, the reviews we should be seeking are:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=best+5G+budget+smartphone>

Where these reviews will help others make the same type of choice I did.
*Best cheap 5G phone 2022*
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-cheap-5g-phones/>
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G
Samsung Galaxy A13
OnePlus Nord N200 5G
Apple iPhone 12, 13 mini
Google Pixel 6

*The best budget 5G phones in 2022*
<https://www.phonearena.com/news/best-budget-5G-smartphones_id125833>
Samsung Galaxy A32 5G
- The phone that makes all those 5G phone pricing arguments instantly
moot.
Samsung Galaxy A71 5G
- Awesome screen, camera & long-lasting battery life, you know the song.
Google Pixel 4a 5G
- You'd be amazed how great of a camera this munchkin has.
OnePlus 8 5G
- High refresh display, beautiful design, excellent battery life.
OnePlus Nord N10 5G
- One of the most affordable brand name 5G phones out there.
Motorola One 5G Ace
- Our review found amazing battery life and decent camera performance.
LG Velvet
- Beautiful design, fast chipset, excellent display.
Orbic Myra 5G UW
- Verizon's own 5G midranger.
TCL 10 5G UW/T-Mobile REVVL 5G
- One of the few budget offings on Verizon or T-Mobile's 5G networks.
OnePlus Nord N200 5G
90Hz 1080p display, 5000mAh battery, 5G connectivity for $240, bazinga!
T-Mobile REVVL V+ 5G
- Rock bottom $199.99 price and 5G, need we say more?
AT&T Fusion 5G
- The most affordable 5G phone on AT&T.

*Best Budget 5G Phones*
<https://phoneaqua.co/best-budget-5g-phones-2021/>
#1 Samsung Galaxy A32 5G
#2 Samsung Galaxy A71 5G
#3 Samsung Galaxy A52 5G
#4 Google Pixel 4a 5G
#5 Motorola one 5G UW ace
#6 OnePlus Nord N10 5G
#7 Nord 2 5G
#8 Realme 8 5G
#9 Xiaomi Mi 11 Lite 5G
#10 Xiaomi Poco F3

*The best cheap 5G phones for 2021 *
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-cheap-5g-phones/>
Samsung Galaxy A51 5G
Google Pixel 4a 5G
OnePlus Nord
LG Velvet
iPhone 12 Mini

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 10:24:42 -0800, sms wrote:

> Yes, at $200 it'll probably be necessary to go to an off-brand for an
> unsubsidized phone.

Why do you consider Motorola an "off brand" smartphone Steve?
$190 Moto G Power (2022) unlocked

> What the person could do, if they are staying on Metro, is to first port
> their existing number to Google Voice then sign up as new customer to
> Metro and take advantage of a subsidized phone
> <https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/shop/phones>.
> I'd get the OnePlus Nord N10 5G.

This is an interesting suggestion which is something I'd consider myself.
I don't want to complicate her life - but I love the suggestion. Thanks!

> The person should consider switching to a different carrier, with a
> subsidized phone, considering that she lives in Capitola. While
> T-Mobile/Metro has good coverage in the city of Capitola, when you look
> at the surrounding area the situation is very different. I ran the FCC
> maps for that area, see <https://i.imgur.com/tMBlHcC.png>. I added this
> to the document "Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and
> Verizon" <https://tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons/>.

I'm glad you looked at the coverage for Capitola, where originally she told
me she was on T-Mobile but when I told her about the free 5G Revvl, she
found out that the MVNOs don't offer the same phones as does the parent.

I don't know what her coverage is but I know she's on Cruzio Internet for
her Wi-Fi but I don't know if that gives us any better coverage data.

To those who are unaware, those FCC maps are generally fine for 4G accuracy
even as they're completely calculated (nothing is measured for an FCC map).

But they are completely lacking in 5G coverage; so if you're ever
considering a 5G phone (and since they're free, why not?) then don't even
look at the FCC maps as a map of 5G coverage on the moon would be the same.

Still, I appreciate Steve's helpful suggestion that with a few maneuvers,
she can get a free phone with a new plan at no additional cost to her.

Thanks for those suggestions for a better price and better coverage.
It's too complex for her - but the rest of us can take note of the choices.
--
It is odd though the machinations Steve goes through for MVNOs when Steve
himself has loudly proclaimed that downloading freeware is too much trouble
(he'd rather pay for the first payware he finds that does the same job).

It's odd when a person (like a used car sales person) who doesn't use the
same argument and instead uses an argument of convenience which shows, in
the end, that they are simply cherry picking arguments to suit the answer.

A classic case of that cherry picking of arguments which is illogical is:
a. When it's some medical procedures - it's my body, my choice.
b. But for other medical procedures - it's my body, not my choice.

That shows, for example, the Democrats don't give a shit about their own
argument if they can change their entire foundation on a convenient whim.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 10:24:42 -0800, sms wrote:

> The person should consider switching to a different carrier, with a
> subsidized phone, considering that she lives in Capitola. While
> T-Mobile/Metro has good coverage in the city of Capitola, when you look
> at the surrounding area the situation is very different. I ran the FCC
> maps for that area, see <https://i.imgur.com/tMBlHcC.png>. I added this
> to the document "Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and
> Verizon" <https://tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons/>.

Steve's point that coverage matters is valid where this lady doesn't even
own a car so I don't know how ambulatory she is (she's in assisted living).

I think she's on MetroPCS for a reason, unknown to me of course, but it's
probably price or maybe she got a good deal on a phone at one point.

All I know is I was asked to pick out a phone for her which was greater than
her 16GB phone, which in today's day and age would be at least 64GB for me.

Then the next question for her was the price, which she was hoping to get
around $200 which automatically knocks off a _lot_ of phones from the list.

Even though she told me she was on T-Mobile, it turns out that she can't get
the free Revvl 5G phone that T-Mobile currently offers as she's on an MVNO.

I don't have a clue what her data plan is, if any.
Nor the 5G coverage in Capitola so I didn't take 5G into consideration.

However... be careful with the FCC maps that Steve loves to propose because,
Steve should be telling us the FCC maps have no 5G coverage on them at all.

You could compare the FCC 5G coverage in San Francisco to that of the moon
on those FCC maps and they'd come out with the same 5G coverage conclusion.

It's a little weird Steve doesn't mention this fact as I know he knows this.
Basing your _entire_ argument on worthless data is what politicians do.

Not friends.

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 12:54 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> They are not all from Tracfone. If you had looked at the links I
> provided you would know that. Some of the reviews are from Samsung's
> own store.

I'd definitely avoid the A32 5G. When the Cnet review says "We tested
Samsung's cheapest 5G Galaxy phone, and it's not bad"
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/we-tested-samsung-cheapest-5g-galaxy-phone-its-not-bad/>
that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

The biggest drawbacks are: a) low resolution display (1600 x 720
compared to 2400 x 1080 on the A52 (both 4G and 5G), b) the
low-performance processor, c) the 64GB of storage, and d) no IP rating.

Those on a budget would be better off sticking with a 4G LTE phone for
now. Remember, the A32 5G doesn't support mmWave 5G so the 5G data
speeds on T-Mobile/Metro are not going to be any faster than the 4G LTE
speed on Verizon or AT&T.

I know that the original poster said "$200" but the reality is that at
$200 he's just below the sweet spot of around $250 where you can buy a
mid-range phone instead of a low-end phone.

The A52 5G might be a better option. If you stay on Cricket for 180 days
they will unlock the phone and they sell the A52 5G phone for $259.99 if
you port in a number. The Cricket $30/month plan is a much better deal
than the Metro $30/month plan, (5GB high speed data on Cricket versus
2GB on Metro), plus AT&T network coverage instead of T-Mobile.

Of course "Andy" doesn't care about any of this. He bought the A32 5G
and hence everyone else should also buy it.

[nospam]

In article <ssa358$s8s$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Remember, the A32 5G doesn't support mmWave 5G so the 5G data
> speeds on T-Mobile/Metro are not going to be any faster than the 4G LTE
> speed on Verizon or AT&T.

yes they will.

[John B.]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:06:46 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

But 5G is expected to cause airplane problems. As the news article
states "International airlines suspend some flights to US over 5G"
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/19/international-flights-suspend-some-flights-to-us-over-5g-woes
Which reports, in part, that:

"On Wednesday, Emirates announced it would halt flights to several US
cities due to “operational concerns associated with the planned
deployment of 5G mobile network services in the U.S. at certain
airports”.

"Japan’s All Nippon Airways said that the FAA “has indicated that
radio waves from the 5G wireless service may interfere with aircraft
altimeters”.

“Boeing has announced flight restrictions on all airlines operating
the Boeing 777 aircraft, and we have cancelled or changed the aircraft
for some flights to/from the US based on the announcement by Boeing,”

Japan Airlines similarly said that it had been informed that 5G
signals “may interfere with the radio altimeter installed on the
Boeing 777”.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 14:25:42 -0800, sms wrote:

> Those on a budget would be better off sticking with a 4G LTE phone for
> now. Remember, the A32 5G doesn't support mmWave 5G so the 5G data
> speeds on T-Mobile/Metro are not going to be any faster than the 4G LTE
> speed on Verizon or AT&T.

Can someone tell me why Steve endlessly spouts how fast Verizon is in the
same mountains that I live in all the while Steve owns both a T-Mobile &
Verizon phone & yet Steve never spends the 30 seconds to screenshot results?

I'm not afraid of facts (as nobody pays me to shill Verizon or T-mobile).
<https://i.postimg.cc/4dDhFK5F/speedtest01.jpg> *125Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/vT68k3BW/speedtest02.jpg> *181Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/pdXF4Mtz/speedtest03.jpg> *125Mbps* to *181Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/gcsyc4Vn/speedtest04.jpg> *82Mbps* & -88dBM
<https://i.postimg.cc/mggy315q/speedtest05.jpg> *254Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/43KvqkZQ/speedtest06.jpg> *255Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> *255Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bb3xjjFm/speedtest08.jpg> *255Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhZKX0vZ/speedtest09.jpg> *130Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/28yZdQJR/speedtest10.jpg> *81Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/ydnDcxy8/speedtest11.jpg> *79Mbps* to *81Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/5y063Jsq/speedtest12.jpg> *96Mbps* to *109Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/fbNyPmHb/speedtest13.jpg> *109Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/5tSyWyGS/speedtest14.jpg> *88Mbps* to *102Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/C5vgmtRd/speedtest15.jpg> *130Mbps* to *255Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/W3GgYJtZ/speedtest16.jpg> *125Mbps* to *181Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/nVs0Smw8/speedtest17.jpg> *54Mbps*
<https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> *60Mbps* & -85dBm

Why is it Steve has _never_ shown a screenshot backing up any of his claims?

> I know that the original poster said "$200" but the reality is that at
> $200 he's just below the sweet spot of around $250 where you can buy a
> mid-range phone instead of a low-end phone.

The person who wants the budget phone is the one who put in the $200 limit.
I don't disagree that every $50 above that tranche opens up more phones.

For $180, the Moto G Power (2022) seems like the best choice though.
What $200 phone does Steve feel is _better_ than that Moto G Power (2022)?

> The A52 5G might be a better option. If you stay on Cricket for 180 days
> they will unlock the phone and they sell the A52 5G phone for $259.99 if
> you port in a number. The Cricket $30/month plan is a much better deal
> than the Metro $30/month plan, (5GB high speed data on Cricket versus
> 2GB on Metro), plus AT&T network coverage instead of T-Mobile.

Thanks for letting us know about this option. The person we're talking about
in Capitola has Internet with Cruzio but I don't have her email address.

But I can let her know (through an intermediary as she's not directly my
friend). She only asked her friend to ask me because she knows I get good
value for almost everything that I purchase (based on price:performance).

I was hoping she could get the free 5G Revvl V+ when she told me she was on
T-Mobile but it turned out she was on a T-Mobile MVNO which is different.

Too bad, because T-Mobile will _still_ give everyone postpaid in the USA
a free 5G phone which isn't all that bad considering it's a free phone.
<https://www.tmonews.com/2021/07/rumor-revvl-v-5g-next-free-phone-offer-t-mobiles-5g-campaign/>

I'm not sure about the free Nord N200 5G from T-Mobile though...
<https://www.phonearena.com/news/t-mobile-oneplus-nord-n200-revvl-v-plus-free-5g-phone-any-trade-in_id133833>

> Of course "Andy" doesn't care about any of this. He bought the A32 5G
> and hence everyone else should also buy it.

It's odd that people like Steve come to conclusions nobody intelligent
would. I expressly recommended the Moto G Power (2022) for example.

It's odd that Steve, whom I assume has at the very least a bachelor's
degree, can't comprehend that simple fact even as it was said many times.

Why are people like Steve oblivious to the most basic of obvious facts?
a. Are they really _that_ stupid?
b. Or, are they just playing childishly silly games with us?

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 3:16 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> But 5G is expected to cause airplane problems. As the news article
> states "International airlines suspend some flights to US over 5G"
> https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/19/international-flights-suspend-some-flights-to-us-over-5g-woes
> Which reports, in part, that:

<snip>

In other countries they simply banned C band 5G cells near airports,
establishing "exclusion zones." It's pretty much a certainty that the
same thing will happen in the U.S..

In any case, this thread was about $200 phones, not specifically 5G
phones. But buying one of the cheapest 5G phones, with all its
drawbacks, is probably unwise.

As I pointed out, the Samsung Galaxy A52 5G, a mid-range 5G phone, can
be purchased, locked for 180 days, for $259.99 with the monthly plan
cost about the same as Metro, but with more high speed data on a better
network. After 180 days the A52 5G can be unlocked and used on other
carriers, if desired.

In another six months or so there should be a slew of mid-range 5G
phones available, including the next revision of the iPhone SE, and the
next rev of the Galaxy A series with a newer Qualcomm chipset.

[Nil]

On 19 Jan 2022, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> I'd definitely avoid the A32 5G. When the Cnet review says "We
> tested Samsung's cheapest 5G Galaxy phone, and it's not bad"
><https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/we-tested-samsung-cheapest-5g-gala
>xy-phone-its-not-bad/>
> that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

And they're right - it's not a bad phone... when it works. They were
lucky enough to get a working sample, or they didn't use it long enough
for it to malfunction.

> The biggest drawbacks are: a) low resolution display (1600 x 720
> compared to 2400 x 1080 on the A52 (both 4G and 5G), b) the
> low-performance processor, c) the 64GB of storage, and d) no IP
> rating.

All those were OK with me. Display was fine, network speed was decent,
storage was expandable, I don't know what IP rating means so that
wasn't a factor. I did, in fact, get 5g speeds at times, which was nice
but not required.

If only the thing didn't crash spectacularly and often.

> Of course "Andy" doesn't care about any of this. He bought the A32
> 5G and hence everyone else should also buy it.

Right. Doesn't seem to matter that there are dozens of documented
reports of the device becoming unusable.

[Nil]

On 19 Jan 2022, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:54:11 -0500, Nil wrote:
>
>> Nice attempt to change the goalposts, by the way.
>
> It's always the trolls claiming the goalposts are changed when the
> goal post is written in big bold letters in the SUBJECT line of
> this (& every) thread.
> *Good $200 Android phone please*

Goalpost:

> "I have not seen even a _single_ negative review for the Galaxy
> A32-5G. Can you name just one negative review for us so we can
> take a look please?"

Answered by me in good faith in great detail.

Repositioned Goalpost:

> "Can you find even a _single_ professional review with a bad
> rating for it?"

That is irrelevant, as I explained and as should be obvious, and I
wouldn't bother chasing your moving goalposts.

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 5:11 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> All those were OK with me. Display was fine, network speed was decent,
> storage was expandable, I don't know what IP rating means so that
> wasn't a factor.

IP=Ingress Protection, how waterproof and dust-proof the phone is. The
A52 5G is rated "IP67-" but I've never seen a - sign before in an IP
rating and it is not an official IP rating as far as I can tell.

Low-end phones typically have no IP rating and cannot withstand any
immersion.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code>

On phones, there are price levels below which there is a dramatic drop
in quality and functionality. It's usually a good idea to spend enough
to buy something in the mid-tier where the display, the processor, the
RAM, and the storage take a big jump.

[Nil]

On 19 Jan 2022, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> On 1/19/2022 5:11 PM, Nil wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> All those were OK with me. Display was fine, network speed was
>> decent, storage was expandable, I don't know what IP rating means
>> so that wasn't a factor.
>
> IP=Ingress Protection, how waterproof and dust-proof the phone is.
> The A52 5G is rated "IP67-" but I've never seen a - sign before in
> an IP rating and it is not an official IP rating as far as I can
> tell.
>
> Low-end phones typically have no IP rating and cannot withstand
> any immersion.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code>

Interesting. I've never gotten a phone very wet so I never considered
that. My previous phone, a Motorola X4 had some degree of water
resistance but I never challenged it. The phone I settled on after the
Samsung A32 fiasco is a Pixel 5a, which I see carries an IP rating of
67, which means it should survive being dropped in a urinal but I
shouldn't take it deep sea diving.

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 5:23 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

A while back I was looking for a reasonably priced mid-range Android
device too. I have pretty simple basic requirements for a phone:

• 6.5" or greater AMOLED screen (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
• > 400 ppi pixel density (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
• 128GB or more of storage (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• Headphone Jack (3.5mm) (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• MicroSD Memory Card Slot (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• NFC (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• Fingerprint scanner (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• ANT+ (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• Must work on AT&T and Verizon (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• IP 67 or greater (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)

Would be nice
• Wireless charging (no on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
• 90 Hz or more refresh rate (120 Hz on A52 5G, 90 Hz on A32 5G)
• MST (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)

Not needed
• 5G, including C band (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
• mmWave 5G (no on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)


You can get a 4G LTE model with these minimum specs for $250 or so
unlocked (and a lot less if locked for a year).

For a 5G model similar in other specs to a 4G model, add $150 or so. For
example, the unlocked A52 5G was on sale for $400 in December.

The A52 5G from Cricket, locked for 180 days, for $259.99 is a very good
deal, especially for someone who was on Metro and doesn't mind switching
to a better carrier for 180 days (or permanently). 180 days is about
$180 ($30/month x 6 months).

The whole 5G thing is rather ridiculous for a lower-cost phone, though I
suppose on T-Mobile, whose LTE speeds are very slow, it makes some
sense. But Verizon's LTE speeds are comparable to T-Mobile's low-band 5G
speeds.

For a 5G phone, probably better to wait a year or two until all phones
have 5G and the prices come down (unless you're buying a subsidized phone).

What makes the A52 5G a mid-range phone rather than a high-end phone?
Slower processor, no mmWave 5G, no wireless charging, no IP68,
lower-quality (but still very good) cameras.

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 5:57 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> Interesting. I've never gotten a phone very wet so I never considered
> that. My previous phone, a Motorola X4 had some degree of water
> resistance but I never challenged it.

One day my wife was gardening next to our swimming pool and dropped her
Moto X4 in the pool. I was outside and was designated to dive into the
pool retrieve it. Fortunately we have a high wood fence around our back
yard. The X4 worked fine after being submerged at about 12 feet for a
minute or so.

[sms]

On 1/19/2022 5:57 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> Interesting. I've never gotten a phone very wet so I never considered
> that. My previous phone, a Motorola X4 had some degree of water
> resistance but I never challenged it. The phone I settled on after the
> Samsung A32 fiasco is a Pixel 5a, which I see carries an IP rating of
> 67, which means it should survive being dropped in a urinal but I
> shouldn't take it deep sea diving.

I really liked the Moto X4. It was the last mid-range, reasonably priced
(around $200 on sale), smallish Android. My daughter and my wife both
had them. My daughter broke hers, she took my wife's X4 and I got my
wife the Samsung S10E, the last mid-size Galaxy S phone.

It was interesting to see both the X4 and the S10E go up in price, for
new ones, as they aged because people were paying more to get the few
smaller decent Android phones. Now you can buy the Asus Zenfone 8 but
it's nearly $700 for the 8GB/128GB and nearly $800 for the 16GB/256GB.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:27:16 -0800, sms wrote:

> You can get a 4G LTE model with these minimum specs for $250 or so
> unlocked (and a lot less if locked for a year).

THIS POST IS INTENDED TO BE A GOOD REFERENCE CITE FOR NOW & THE FUTURE.

*Good $200 Android phone please*

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/EoqHQGrRtic>

It's good when intelligent well-educated people compare facts, as it's a
rarity on Usenet for people to list the facts as they objectively are.

Since I'm a purposefully helpful kind-hearted person, I went to the trouble
to vet Steve's rather useful list, but with _budget_ phones in mind (not
high-end phones which Steve's list caters to).

That is, of course, apropos given the clearly budget SUBJECT of this thread

*Good $200 Android phone please*

To that end of a budget (aka "low end") phone, to ask for features Steve is
listing (such as AMOLED screens) is, IMHO, not apropos for low end devices.

Steve's "high end" list of features isn't bad for high end phones, but we
need to keep in mind we're trying to find the best price:performance here.

To that end, Steve should have added the $190 unlocked Motorola Moto G Power
(2022), which, let's be blunt, is only 3/4 the 4G LTE price he set at $250.

> For a 5G model similar in other specs to a 4G model, add $150 or so. For
> example, the unlocked A52 5G was on sale for $400 in December.

I disagree that the 5G feature costs $150 based on the phones I already
suggested as it's much closer to 1/2 of that for the phones I suggested.

> What makes the A52 5G a mid-range phone rather than a high-end phone?
> Slower processor, no mmWave 5G, no wireless charging, no IP68,
> lower-quality (but still very good) cameras.

It's not a "mid-range" phone, Steve... it's a _low end_ budget phone.
Which everyone in the USA postpaid on T-Mobile were offered for free.

The lack of wireless charging is meaningless to me, where the thing lasts
for _days_ (the battery could jumpstart my car) and the fast charger that
came with the box charges the thing in a surprisingly short period of time.

You're correct on the frequency bands though as this is what the phone has:
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity

And these are the 5G mmwave bands.
<https://www.5gmmwave.com/5g-mmwave-frequency-bands/>
NR 5G mmWave frequency bands above 24 GHz
Band n257, 28GHz, LMDS band
Band n258, 26GHz, K-band
Band n259, 42GHz, V-band
Band n260, 39GHz, Ka-band
Band n261, 28GHz, Ka-band

> A while back I was looking for a reasonably priced mid-range Android

> device too. I have pretty simple basic requirements for a phone.

Being well educated, I just want to note you keep deprecating "my" choice,
but what you don't understand are ratios. The price:performance of a free
phone is _impossible_ for you to beat if you pay anything for your phone.

The price:performance ratio of a free phone aside, let's compare the wish
list you provided, which I easily grant you isn't a bad list to start with.

> 6.5" or greater AMOLED screen (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
> > 400 ppi pixel density (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
> 128GB or more of storage (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> Headphone Jack (3.5mm) (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> MicroSD Memory Card Slot (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> NFC (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> Fingerprint scanner (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> ANT+ (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> Must work on AT&T and Verizon (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> IP 67 or greater (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
>
> Would be nice
> Wireless charging (no on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
> 90 Hz or more refresh rate (120 Hz on A52 5G, 90 Hz on A32 5G)
> MST (Yes on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)
>
> Not needed
> 5G, including C band (Yes on A52 5G, yes on A32 5G)
> mmWave 5G (no on A52 5G, no on A32 5G)

Let's use _your_ criteria to compare the $190 Moto G Power 2022:
�<https://www.google.com/search?q=full+specifications+motorola+moto+G+power+2022>

Desired
6.5" or greater (*Yes* on gt 6.5")
AMOLED screen (No on AMOLED as it's IPS LCD 90Hz)
gt 400 ppi pixel density (No as it's ~270 ppi density)
128GB or more of storage (*Yes* on 128GB@cost, Yes on 64GB)
Headphone Jack (3.5mm) (*Yes* on industry standard aux jack)
MicroSD Memory Card Slot (*Yes* on industry standard sdcard slot)
NFC (No on NFC)
Fingerprint scanner (*Yes* on fingerprint, side mounted)
ANT+ (No on the ANT+ Garmin bluetooth standards)
T-Mobile, AT&T & Verizon (*Yes* for all USA & Canadian carriers)
IP 67 or greater (No on IP67 as it's IP52 rated)

Would be nice
Wireless charging (No wireless charging, even USB-C is slow)
gte 90 Hz refresh rate (*Yes* on the 90Hz refresh rate)
MST (No on Samsung magnetic secure transmission std)

Not needed
5G, including C band (No on 5G)
mmWave 5G (No on mmWave 5G)

Steve's high-end features list aside, since this is clearly a thread about
low end budget phones, I think it's more useful to the reader to compare the
two low-end budget phones that come up in multiple reviews, such as these:

Required:
Low cost (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
Headphone Jack (3.5mm) (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
MicroSD Memory Card Slot (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
T-Mobile, AT&T & Verizon (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)

Desired:
6.5" or greater (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
128GB or more of storage (Yes for both but at additional cost)

Would be nice
Fingerprint scanner (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
5G, including C band (No on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
mmWave 5G (No on $190 Moto G, No on free A32-5G)
IP 67 or greater (No on $190 Moto G, No on free A32-5G)

Not needed
ANT+ (No on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
NFC (No on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)
MST (No on $190 Moto G, No on free A32-5G)
AMOLED screen (No on $190 Moto G, No on free A32-5G)
Wireless charging (No on $190 Moto G, No on free A32-5G)
gte 90 Hz refresh rate (Yes on $190 Moto G, Yes on free A32-5G)

Bear in mind _multiple_ reviews compare these exact two phones above.
*Motorola Moto G Power (2022) Review*
<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g-power-2022>
"The 2022 Moto G Power is a good no-frills phone that won't break the bank.
It handles basic tasks with ease, doesn't have bloatware, and can easily
get you through a day between charges. That said, we would have liked to
see a 1080p screen (even at the expense of the 90Hz refresh rate) and
wish Motorola had either shipped the phone with Android 12 or committed
to two future OS updates. Still, it's a good value for the price,
offering longer battery life than the $159.99 Moto G Pure and stronger
camera quality than the $169.99 Moto G Play. If you're willing to spend
a bit more, however, the $279.99 Samsung Galaxy A32 5G offers the best
bang for your buck, with even better camera quality, stronger software
support, and 5G connectivity, making it our Editors' Choice."

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 20:23:42 -0500, Nil wrote:

> Goalpost:

The "goalpost" of this thread is to suggest a good cheap set of
(around $200) budget Android smartphones that are available today.

That's why the SUBJECT line of this thread is exactly what it is:

*Good $200 Android phone please*

>> "I have not seen even a _single_ negative review for the Galaxy
>> A32-5G. Can you name just one negative review for us so we can
>> take a look please?"
>
> Answered by me in good faith in great detail.

With respect to your repositioning of the goalposts, I'm fine with your rant
that you hate what tracfone gave you. You ranted. We listened to your rant.

You ranted again. We responded.
You ranted yet again, and again, and again.

OK. We get it.
You don't like the tracfone phone.

What more do you want from your rant against a phone that tracfone gave you?
That phone is, by all counts, about $280 so it's not even a $200 phone.

> Repositioned Goalpost:

Notice both Steve and I added value to the conversation with useful detail.
How does your endless purely emotional rant against tracfone add any value?

> That is irrelevant, as I explained and as should be obvious, and I
> wouldn't bother chasing your moving goalposts.

I get it that Steve wants to also change the goalpost to a Verizon
higher-end phone than a $200 (as that's what he's looking for).

There's nothing wrong with Steve's suggestions, as they _fit_ with the
original topic of the thread, which clearly is a budget smartphone.

However, Steve's list of needs is slightly higher-end than what was
originally envisioned, which is ok - but we just need to adjust to that.

To that end, I first further fleshed out his list of requirements (which
isn't bad for mid range and for higher end phones) adding the $200 phone.

Then, since I'm a kind-hearted purposefully helpful soul, I modified Steve's
list to change it from a mid-to-high-end wishlist, to a budget wishlist.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/EoqHQGrRtic/m/3XCi0js_EQAJ>

Don't you think the three lists Steve and I provided are better value for
the recipients of this thread, than your endlessly repeated tracfone rant?
List #1: Steve's list of mid-range features (comparing two phones).
List #2: I added to Steve's comparison, a third ($190 budget) phone.
List #3: Then I compared one phone from each list for _budget_ features.

[Theo]

s|b <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 02:11:09 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
> > Any good suggestions that others can benefit from?
>
> Maybe have a look at <https://www.gsmarena.com/> ?

No experience, but Nokia have a reasonable reputation for lower end phones.
They have some starting at $150:
https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_us/smartphones

[sms]

Phone Scoop is another good place to search for phones based on specific
criteria
<https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/finder_results.php?w=s&car=r&ca_2=y&ca_4=y&ca_5=y&avr=r&av_2=y&plr=r&pl_20=y&dwr=r&dw_1439-9999=y&dw_1079-1438=y&drr=0&f30r=r&f30_31=y&m13r=r&m16r=r&f89r=r&f32r=r&f32_3=y&f60r=r&f55r=r>.

The problem is that at $200 it's a little below where you can buy a
mid-range phone.

[sms]

On 1/20/2022 12:40 PM, sms wrote:

<snip>

> The problem is that at $200 it's a little below where you can buy a
> mid-range phone.

Actually the Phone Scoop Search should have been
<https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/finder_results.php?w=s&sao=y&car=r&ca_2=y&ca_4=y&ca_5=y&avr=r&av_2=y&plr=r&pl_20=y&dwr=r&dw_1439-9999=y&dw_1079-1438=y&dtr=r&dt_6=y&dpr=r&dpv=6.5&drr=r&dr_89-119=y&dr_119-143=y&dr_143-999=y&f30r=r&f30_31=y&m14r=r&m15r=r&m13r=r&m16r=r&f89r=r&f90r=r&f90_7=y&f83r=r&f32r=r&f32_3=y&f60r=r&f55r=r&f73r=r&f72r=r&f92r=r>

• AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon 5G, including C Band
• Memory Card Slot
• Headphone Jack
• At least Full HD + (1080p)
• Fast Charging
• NFC
• At least IP67
• At least 90 Hz refresh rate
• At least 6.5" screen
• Fingerprint Reader
• Stereo Speakers

Sadly, only one phone shows up, the A52 5G. The cheapest I've seen it is
around $300, and right now it's around $500.

[Nil]

On 20 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> With respect to your repositioning of the goalposts, I'm fine with
> your rant that you hate what tracfone gave you. You ranted. We
> listened to your rant.

Oh, blow it out your ass, Arlen. You know full well that you asked me a
question, I answered it, and you intentionally turned it into an
argument like you always do.

[Nil]

On 20 Jan 2022, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> I really liked the Moto X4. It was the last mid-range, reasonably
> priced (around $200 on sale), smallish Android. My daughter and my
> wife both had them. My daughter broke hers, she took my wife's X4
> and I got my wife the Samsung S10E, the last mid-size Galaxy S
> phone.

I liked my Moto X4 a whole lot. For some reason I can't explain, wi-fi
performance was better than any other phone I've owned (which is not
many.) The only reason I replaced it now was that Tracfone informed me
that it was not VoLTE compatible and that when Verizon shuts down their
3G network the Moto would stop working. I could have waited (it appears
that Verizon has delayed the change until the end of this year) but I
had an opportunity to get the new and shiny Samsung A32 5G at a great
price... which did not come to a good end.

Anyway, the X4 was an excellent performer and was the first smart phone
that I never had any significant issues with. Very reliable. If it were
possible to be nostalgic about a telephone, that would be one.

[sms]

On 1/20/2022 11:36 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> I liked my Moto X4 a whole lot. For some reason I can't explain, wi-fi
> performance was better than any other phone I've owned (which is not
> many.) The only reason I replaced it now was that Tracfone informed me
> that it was not VoLTE compatible and that when Verizon shuts down their
> 3G network the Moto would stop working.

Hmm, still have an X4 on my Total Wireless/Tracfone family plan.

"I then put in my TF Verizon sim. There was a Toggle for VoLTE but none
of the others." from <https://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1912599>.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/MotoX4/comments/me2k0r/volte/>
"The Moto X4 is absolutely HD Voice capable, in fact I used HD voice on
this phone on Verizon prepaid in 2019."

From
<https://www.reddit.com/r/MotoX4/comments/k70c3k/does_the_moto_x4_support_volte_or_not/>:
"For most of 2019 I was using Verizon prepaid service & I had VoLTE on
my X4. But I since switched to AT&T prepaid and I do not have it VoLTE
because AT&T only allows on Iphones & AT&T sold Android phone's. You
can't get VoLTE on unlocked devices with AT&T."

The X4 has the Qualcomm Snapdragon 630
<https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-630-mobile-platform> which
supports VoLTE.

[sms]

On 1/15/2022 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 02:11:09 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli

<snip>

>> Any good suggestions that others can benefit from?
>

> See
> https://www.amazon.com/Android-Phone-Under-200-Dollars/s?k=Android+Phone+Under+200+Dollars

If the other person doesn't mind switching to Cricket for six months
they can get an A52 5G for $234.99. I can't imagine why someone on Metro
would object to switching to Cricket for six months, but there could be
a reason, like being on a family plan with other people on the plan
having phones that are being financed or that can't be unlocked yet.

Minimum Cricket service with 5GB of data is $30 per month. For someone
currently on prepaid service anyway, it may be a good deal, and they can
always switch to another prepaid carrier after 180 days when Cricket
will unlock the phone.

Caveats:
1) You have to port in a number to get that price, but for most people
that's not an issue (you can always get a number to port in for $10 or
less if you are getting a new line).

2) The initial prices is $259.99 but you can get a referral code that
will take $25 off after 60 days, see
<https://www.reddit.com/r/CricketReferrals/>

If you're really intent on minimizing costs you can often buy discounted
Cricket refill cards at Target, usually in February.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:23:35 -0800, sms wrote:

> Sadly, only one phone shows up, the A52 5G. The cheapest I've seen it is
> around $300, and right now it's around $500.

Steve's thread is apropos since what someone looks for in a low-end sub $200
phone is _different_ than what someone looks for in a mid-range phone.

*Good $200 Android phone please*

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/EoqHQGrRtic>

*Selecting an Unlocked, Mid-Range, Phone*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/qe7lsYEtKag>

Comments there about the Fingerprint scanner, ANT+, MST and the fast
charger-in-the-box.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:19:08 -0500, Nil wrote:

> You know full well that you asked me a
> question, I answered it, and you intentionally turned it into an
> argument like you always do.

And yet, you fabricated that claim since it was _you_ who asked the
question.

When you ranted against tracfone, I listened.
When you ranted again (and again and again), I responded.

I responded by asking you for a _single_ reliable professional review that
claims that the device (outside and above any tracfone issues) is what you
claim.

And you found nothing.
*Not even one*

And _that_ is the classic response of all bullshitters like you are.
*Your entire belief system is based on exactly _zero_ actual facts.*

[Nil]

On 22 Jan 2022, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

You're not going to fool anybody by lying like that. If they care to
check (which isn't very likely,) they can easily see what was said and
when. Your posts are date- and time-stamped and it's demonstrable fact
that YOU asked for "just one review." I gave you several. THEN you
moved the goalposts to demand "one professional" review. I've seen you
try to create conflict like that before. I won't play that game.

Also, those "rants", as you call them, are not mine. They are quoted
from the many user reviews I found at unrelated sites around the net,
including Samsung's own.

[sms]

On 1/22/2022 5:19 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> Also, those "rants", as you call them, are not mine. They are quoted
> from the many user reviews I found at unrelated sites around the net,
> including Samsung's own.

The reviews of the A32 5G have not been great. See
<https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones/tw-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-s326dl#2>.
More 1 star reviews than any other rating.

Better to switch to Cricket for 180 days and get the A52 5G for $234.99,
plus $30 per month for service for six months.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 20:19:30 -0500, Nil wrote:

> Your posts are date- and time-stamped and it's demonstrable fact
> that YOU asked for "just one review." I gave you several. THEN you
> moved the goalposts to demand "one professional" review.

Why don't you open a tracfone rant thread instead of derailing this one?
This thread is about finding a good $200 budget Android phone.

1. This thread isn't about your personal tracfone hatred rant.
2. If you want a tracfone rant, what's stopping you from starting one?

On this newsgroup, we post links to _professional_ well-vetted reviews.
I even posted links to professional reviews to Steve's mid-range thread.

*Selecting an Unlocked, Mid-Range, Phone*

And I commended Steve for opening that mid-range thread.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/qe7lsYEtKag>

On the other hand, this thread is _clearly_ about a $200 budget Android.
Why don't you open a tracfone rant thread instead of derailing this one?

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 17:26:32 -0800, sms wrote:

> The reviews of the A32 5G have not been great. See
> <https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones/tw-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g-s326dl#2>.
> More 1 star reviews than any other rating.

Steve... sometimes I wonder about your professional abilities.
*How is _that_ URL pointing to _any_ professional reviews?*

All it says that they wrote is:
"Galaxy A32 5G pairs our best core features with one of the most
affordable 5G devices on the market. That means you get a long-lasting
battery, expandable storage, multiple cameras, a super-crisp display
and blazing-fast 5G speed."

All that is true, Steve, is it not?
It's what the professionals wrote, Steve, is it not?

Yes, I see the idiot reviews but those are _not_ professional reviews.
Idiots are held to no standard whatsoever save for the ability to type.

Why can't you find even a _single_ professional review backing your claims?

[sms]

On 1/22/2022 5:19 PM, Nil wrote:

<snip>

> Also, those "rants", as you call them, are not mine. They are quoted
> from the many user reviews I found at unrelated sites around the net,
> including Samsung's own.

While I'm not a fan of carrier-provided, locked, phones, this thread is
ample evidence that _sometimes_ it makes sense to take advantage of
phone discounts in exchange for being locked to a carrier for six months
to a year.

I think that this thread was about someone on Metro looking for a new
phone. The cheapest plan on Metro is $30/month for 2GB of data. On
Metro, you can get an A32 5G for free, or an A52 5G for $99.99, but only
if you port in a number as a new customer, it's not for existing
customers apparently.

A Metro customer could always port out to a carrier like Cricket, buy
the A52 5G for $234.99, and pay $30/month for 5GB of data. After 180
days they can get the A52 5G unlocked and go back to Metro if they
desire (or go to another MVNO), though it's hard to imagine a reason why
someone would choose Metro over Cricket, other than for the fact Metro
has bigger discounts on new phones for new customers.

Bottom line, there's no good reason to burden someone with a low-end
phone like an A32 5G when they can get a much better phone for not that
much more money.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 08:30:48 -0800, sms wrote:

> While I'm not a fan of carrier-provided, locked, phones, this thread is
> ample evidence that _sometimes_ it makes sense to take advantage of
> phone discounts in exchange for being locked to a carrier for six months
> to a year.

Being "locked in" depends on how long you plan on staying on your carrier.
I've been on T-Mobile for a decade; so being "locked in" for two years
doesn't mean much since I don't plan on moving off T-Mobile anytime soon.

And, even if I did, all I'd have to do is pay off the remaining numbers of
months on the free phone, which for a $280 phone is about $12/month.

In short, being locked in is _not_ a big deal to almost everyone out there.

> I think that this thread was about someone on Metro looking for a new
> phone. The cheapest plan on Metro is $30/month for 2GB of data. On
> Metro, you can get an A32 5G for free, or an A52 5G for $99.99, but only
> if you port in a number as a new customer, it's not for existing
> customers apparently.

This is good to know for most people as this thread _was_ for a person in
Capitola who knew I get phones at a good price:performance point.

She's not mobile so she will sit in her house and barely use the phone.
The only thing she really wanted was more than 16GB, which, I'm guessing, is
'cuz she takes copious pictures of her grandchildren (which I would do too).

Thanks to Steve, he found out the coverage in Capitola is just fine for her.

> A Metro customer could always port out to a carrier like Cricket, buy
> the A52 5G for $234.99, and pay $30/month for 5GB of data. After 180
> days they can get the A52 5G unlocked and go back to Metro if they
> desire (or go to another MVNO), though it's hard to imagine a reason why
> someone would choose Metro over Cricket, other than for the fact Metro
> has bigger discounts on new phones for new customers.

I'm thankful Steve found those better plans, but for this one old lady, it's
not in the least likely she can handle the details.

She almost went crazy with the details when she first told me she was on
T-Mobile and then I told her about the free phones but then she said that
Metro was what she was on (and she blamed me for the complexity).

That's normal for people who ask for simple answers so I'm fine with that.
I can certainly handle complexity more than can most people so I appreciate
Steve's research for how to get the cheapest phone in the Santa Cruz area.

> Bottom line, there's no good reason to burden someone with a low-end
> phone like an A32 5G when they can get a much better phone for not that
> much more money.

Actually, given her price when I asked was $200, I suggested the Moto G
Power 2022, which is about $190 last I checked.

The Samsung Galaxy A32-5G was $275 which is one third over her asking price.

BTW, I received a handful of those A32-5G phones for free last April
and I'm happy with them. No problems whatsoever other than I screwed up the
charging port hardware (through no fault of the phone), where T-Mobile
replaced it for free under warranty (even though it's a Samsung phone).

The funny thing was T-Mobile customer support first told me to call Samsung
but then I said "hey, I'm your customer!" so they took care of it for me.
They even gave me an advanced 20 dollar credit because the stores all charge
20 if you do anything with them (and it had to be traded in at the store).

Is it _normal_ for the carrier to do the warranty or the carrier for you?

[Nil]

On 24 Jan 2022, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

> While I'm not a fan of carrier-provided, locked, phones, this
> thread is ample evidence that _sometimes_ it makes sense to take
> advantage of phone discounts in exchange for being locked to a
> carrier for six months to a year.

I would avoid locked phones, I have bought them in the past when it was
just too good a deal to pass up. I'm a Tracfone devotee - their
paradigm fits me well. I mostly use my phone as a wi-fi device, don't
do a lot of voice or texting, and while I get a limited amount of
mobile data with my annual re-up, I can buy more as I go if I need it,
and I get to keep all unused service when I renew. Tracfone offers a
few decent locked phones, sometimes at very good promotional prices.
Since I have no immediate plan to leave Tracfone, I might get one of
theirs if the price was compelling (the dreaded Samsung A32 5G was an
example of that) but I would prefer go for a third-party unlocked
phone.

> Bottom line, there's no good reason to burden someone with a
> low-end phone like an A32 5G when they can get a much better phone
> for not that much more money.

I've come to agree with that for myself. It took me many years to
realize that I use the thing enough that I should treat myself to at
least a midrange phone and not cheap out. I'm still not willing to pay
premium prices for a premium machine that will always be near-obsolete
within a couple of years.

For me the Samsung A32 would have been very adequate for the price I
paid if it didn't severely malfunction for me personally and for so
many other documented users.

[sms]

On 1/24/2022 1:47 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2022, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in
> comp.mobile.android:
>
>> While I'm not a fan of carrier-provided, locked, phones, this
>> thread is ample evidence that _sometimes_ it makes sense to take
>> advantage of phone discounts in exchange for being locked to a
>> carrier for six months to a year.
>
> I would avoid locked phones, I have bought them in the past when it was
> just too good a deal to pass up. I'm a Tracfone devotee - their
> paradigm fits me well. I mostly use my phone as a wi-fi device, don't
> do a lot of voice or texting, and while I get a limited amount of
> mobile data with my annual re-up, I can buy more as I go if I need it,
> and I get to keep all unused service when I renew. Tracfone offers a
> few decent locked phones, sometimes at very good promotional prices.
> Since I have no immediate plan to leave Tracfone, I might get one of
> theirs if the price was compelling (the dreaded Samsung A32 5G was an
> example of that) but I would prefer go for a third-party unlocked
> phone.

I an on Total Wireless. Currently I have two locked phones. A Total
Wireless iPhone Xr that was $211.75 back when it sold unlocked for $499,
and a Tracfone Samsung A51 (4G) which was $88.99 (and included a year of
Tracfone service). Once unlocked, I can use them on any carrier, but for
now they work fine (I don't really use the A51, it was just too good of
a deal at the time, and eventually it will be deployed on my Total
Wireless account for my daughter who goes through phones rapidly.

[AJL]

Nil wrote:

> I'm still not willing to pay premium prices for
> a premium machine that will always be
> near-obsolete within a couple of years.

My premium Galaxy S10+ is in its 3rd year
and just got upgraded to Android 12...

[Nil]

Excellent! I don't think I've ever (until now) had a phone that got
more then one Android update, but I guess that's the price of being
cheap and buying last year's technology.

I recently bought a Google Pixel 5a, which I'm assured will get Android
updates for at least 3 years. Out of the box it had 11, but it
immediately updated to 12.

By "near-obsolete" I also mean that the batteries always lose
rechargeability. When it gets down to getting discharged in less then
half a day, I consider it to be practically near-dead. I could try
cracking it open and replacing the battery, but I confess to being
distracted by newer, shinier objects.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:04:46 -0500, Nil wrote:

> I don't think I've ever (until now) had a phone that got
> more then one Android update, but I guess that's the price of being
> cheap and buying last year's technology.

I think you put too much unwarranted emphasis on the "next Android update."

Android isn't like iOS is, in that the "update" for iOS is critical due to
Apple's shitty architecture - but Android is a _great_ update architecture.
<https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/>

Android (like all other common operating systems _except_ the shitty iOS
architecture) updates the core components _completely independently_ of the
Android version. Two dozen core modules are updated outside the carrier.

There are articles out there published as recently as today saying that
Apple's absolutely shitty update mechanism is why iOS is so vulnerable.

Android, at least, can update 25 core modules asynchronously as needed.
And then _all_ the key apps (how many? Maybe another 25?) update similarly.

That's about 50 critical apps in Android updated whenever it's needed.
Those 50 apps can't update in iOS until/unless Apple ships iOS as one unit.

The point being the only OS you _must_ get that damn update, is shitty iOS.
Not Android.
--
Of all operating systems, only iOS updates monolithically - which is stupid.

[AJL]

On 1/24/2022 7:04 PM, Nil wrote:

> On 24 Jan 2022, AJL wrote:
>> Nil wrote:

>>> I'm still not willing to pay premium prices for a premium
>>> machine that will always be near-obsolete within a couple of
>>> years.

>> My premium Galaxy S10+ is in its 3rd year and just got upgraded to
>> Android 12...

> Excellent! I don't think I've ever (until now) had a phone that got
> more then one Android update, but I guess that's the price of being
> cheap and buying last year's technology.

So far I've not noticed any difference using my upgraded phone's Android
12 but then I haven't looked around much beyond my normal everyday use
which isn't all that much.

> I recently bought a Google Pixel 5a, which I'm assured will get
> Android updates for at least 3 years. Out of the box it had 11, but
> it immediately updated to 12.

I think the security updates are likely the most important ones.

> By "near-obsolete" I also mean that the batteries always lose
> rechargeability. When it gets down to getting discharged in less
> then half a day, I consider it to be practically near-dead.

I've been lucky in that I've never needed to replace a battery on any of
my phones before I wanted (not needed) a new one. My current 2+ year old
phone drops about 20% to 30% a day depending on how long the wife shops
(and I kill time reading my phone)...

> I could try cracking it open and replacing the battery,

I did replace the wife's phone's battery once but I didn't have to crack
the case open, the battery had swollen up and done it all by itself...

> but I confess to being distracted by newer, shinier objects.

Me too. I just bought a shiny new Chrome OS tablet today...

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 20:12:10 -0700, AJL wrote:

> So far I've not noticed any difference using my upgraded phone's Android
> 12 but then I haven't looked around much beyond my normal everyday use
> which isn't all that much.

We've covered Android versions in detail in the past.
They're like different versions of Windows 10.
You barely notice the difference between Android versions.
All the software will almost always work.

It's not iOS where Apple designed it as a clusterfuck so that they have to
update the entire kludge of an operating system just to update one module.

> I think the security updates are likely the most important ones.

Three things are important on Android for system security.
a. The monthly or quarterly security updates (which go on for years!)
b. The ad hoc updates to the 25 core modules in project mainline
c. There are also even ad hoc firmware updates (e.g., to Qualcomm modems)

> I've been lucky in that I've never needed to replace a battery on any of
> my phones before I wanted (not needed) a new one. My current 2+ year old
> phone drops about 20% to 30% a day depending on how long the wife shops
> (and I kill time reading my phone)...

With the size of batteries nowadays, you can jumpstart your car.
Some are six amp hours (my _free_ phone is five amp hours!).

With such huge batteries, dead Android smartphones are a thing of the past.

Even if they wear down to HALF their original strength, they're at the
_starting_ point of the brand new iPhones I bought earlier this year.

[sms]

On 1/24/2022 7:12 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/24/2022 7:04 PM, Nil wrote:
>> On 24 Jan 2022, AJL wrote:
>>> Nil wrote:
>
>>>> I'm still not willing to pay premium prices for a premium
>>>> machine that will always be near-obsolete within a couple of
>>>> years.
>
>>> My premium Galaxy S10+ is in its 3rd year and just got upgraded to
>>> Android 12...
>
>> Excellent! I don't think I've ever (until now) had a phone that got
>> more then one Android update, but I guess that's the price of being
>> cheap and buying last year's technology.
>
> So far I've not noticed any difference using my upgraded phone's Android
> 12 but then I haven't looked around much beyond my normal everyday use
> which isn't all that much.

I have phones with 10 & 11 and really don't notice the differences
though I'm sure some exist.

My Note 9 shipped with 8 and then got 9 and then 10.

All my Android phones in use still get security updates occasionally but
Android no longer has all the security issues that still plague another
operating system.

The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion. Headphone
jack, MicroSD card slot, FM radio, ANT+, MST. Then Samsung began copying
Apple and decontenting their phones.

[nospam]

In article <ssov1i$msj$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> All my Android phones in use still get security updates occasionally but
> Android no longer has all the security issues that still plague another
> operating system.

yes it does, and is currently the platform with the most malware.

> The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion. Headphone
> jack, MicroSD card slot, FM radio, ANT+, MST. Then Samsung began copying
> Apple and decontenting their phones.

nobody is decontenting anything. companies add and remove features
based on what people actually use, not to fill out a checklist.

[AJL]

On 1/25/2022 6:47 AM, sms wrote:

> The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion.

> Headphone jack

I don't think I've used my phone's headphone jack in over a year and
when out and about I don't see many folks with a wire hanging out of
their ears (I do see some earbuds) so perhaps the headphone jack
will eventually be gone on most phones.

> MicroSD card slot,

My phone has 128GB storage so I've never needed to use the card slot.
Perhaps many folks also? It may also go away on most new models?

> FM radio,

I can listen to most any station in the world on my phone online (but
don't) so wouldn't miss FM capability if I had it. Perhaps many folks
also? Except perhaps for those on a cheap data budget.

> ANT+,

Never needed it on my treadmill... ;)

> MST.

I still find it easier to dig out my credit card and wave it at the
payment terminal than my phone. YMMV. And the Applebee's waitress would
give me a funny look if I waved my phone at her anyway...

But I realize all of the above are a YMMV thing. My GUESS is that most
will fade away with time (like removable batteries) except perhaps for
the latter items.

> Then Samsung began copying Apple and decontenting their phones.

My new (released in 2020 but new to me) Lenovo Chrome OS tablet has the
brand name "IdeaPad". Does that sound kinda like iPad to you? Wonder if
that was on purpose. And to make the copycat complete it has no card
slot or headphone jack but came with a headphone dongle that plugs
into the one USB-C port making charging and listening at the same time
difficult just like you know who's stuff. Again with the IdeaPad having
128GB of storage I probably won't miss the card slot...

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:58:19 -0500, nospam wrote:

> yes it does, and is currently the platform with the most malware.

No common operating system but iOS uses a primitive monolithic mechanism.

The news this week is all about how iOS's update system is a clusterfuck.
a. They have a critical hole (they didn't find) but that they fixed.
b. But they can't ship it until the entire iOS 15.3 is ready to ship!

At this very moment, Apple has huge bugs that they didn't find, but that
they fixed, but they _can't_ ship those fixes until iOS 15.3 is ready.

At least Android updates like all other operating system do except iOS.
a. Two dozen key modules are updated all the time over GPS
b. Even the Qualcomm firmware is updated over GPS nowadays
c. All the key apps are updates asynchronously also!

All these updates are completely independent so they can happen when needed.
Of all common systems, only iOS uses the primitive monolithic update scheme.

>> The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion. Headphone
>> jack, MicroSD card slot, FM radio, ANT+, MST. Then Samsung began copying
>> Apple and decontenting their phones.
>
> nobody is decontenting anything. companies add and remove features
> based on what people actually use, not to fill out a checklist.

Apple's (admittedly brilliant) MARKETING yearly removes basic functionality,
one by one... so that you are forced... eventually.. to buy it all back.

Samsung and Google tried to copy Apple's sleazy customer-unfriendly ploys.

It's "courageous".

[nospam]

In article <sspf88$178f$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>
> No common operating system but iOS uses a primitive monolithic mechanism.

ios does not use a 'primitive monolithic mechanism'.

incremental updates are tiny, only seconds to download in many cases,
depending on the size of the update, the same as with other operating
systems

the only primitive mechanism is your brain, which cannot comprehend
anything new.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:31:46 -0500, nospam wrote:

> ios does not use a 'primitive monolithic mechanism'.

You don't even understand your own primitive operating system, nospam.
*Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people*
*(aka iKooks) think it does*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/pT9BaEaf09Y>

a. Apple didn't find their own bugs (they almost never do)
b. The researchers reported them to Apple (long ago)
c. Finally, the researchers gave up on Apple (and published them)

Only then, after the researchers gave up on Apple and published the flaws,
did Apple even _bother_ to fix them (they're serious flaws by all accounts).

Yet...

Apple _can't_ ship the fixes until they assemble an entire new iOS release!
Worse, Apple _still_ hasn't done that yet.

So _billions_ of iOS devices are exposed to full control by hackers using a
public exposed flaw that Apple has fixed internally, but can't ship yet.

All because iOS has a primitive monolithic clusterfuck release mechanism.
--
No other operating system uses the primitive iOS monolithic clusterfuck.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 05:47:30 -0800, sms wrote:

> I have phones with 10 & 11 and really don't notice the differences
> though I'm sure some exist.

Android updates almost everything asynchronously _outside_ the OS version.

> My Note 9 shipped with 8 and then got 9 and then 10.

Almost every phone I've gotten, and mine are all low end phones lately,
has gone through at least one (and recently two) Android updates.

Yet, like you (and like most others), I barely notice any differences.
And that's fine.

> All my Android phones in use still get security updates occasionally but
> Android no longer has all the security issues that still plague another
> operating system.

The problem with iOS is that Apple, even today, has a fix in hand, for an
exploit that was _published_ which Apple has to wait to build a new iOS
before they can ship that fix.

That's a key problem with the primitive iOS monolithic update mechanism.

Here's an article _pleading_ with Apple to update its primitive mechanism.
*Here┬ why Apple should provide standalone updates for native iOS apps*
<https://9to5mac.com/2022/01/21/heres-why-apple-should-provide-standalone-updates-for-native-ios-apps/>

> The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion. Headphone
> jack, MicroSD card slot, FM radio, ANT+, MST. Then Samsung began copying
> Apple and decontenting their phones.

a. Apple decontents phones so that you are forced to buy the content back.
b. It's a very profitable strategy (given their gullible customer base).
c. Apple is "courageous" in decontenting saying that "it's for the kids".

Worse...
A. The big players (who can afford the risk) follow Apple's profitable ploys
B. They do so, though, usually on the _expensive_ phones only
C. That way they can contain the risk if it fails (which it often does)

Luckily...
1. As far as I recall, Samsung failed miserably copying Apple's tricks
2. I'm not sure about Google's Pixel series though (as I don't follow them)

Which phone has been successful copying Apple profitable decontenting ploys?

[sms]

On 1/25/2022 7:33 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 6:47 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> The Note 9 was the pinnacle of Samsung phones, in my opinion.
>
>> Headphone jack
>
> I don't think I've used my phone's headphone jack in over a year and
> when out and about I don't see many folks with a wire hanging out of
> their ears (I do see some earbuds) so perhaps the headphone jack
> will eventually be gone on most phones.

Pre-pandemic, when I was sometimes riding mass-transit, I would look to
see how many people were using wired versus wireless earpods. This was
back in early 2020, and back then it was about 60% wired/40% wireless.

>
>> MicroSD card slot,
>
> My phone has 128GB storage so I've never needed to use the card slot.
> Perhaps many folks also? It may also go away on most new models?

I like to keep a lot of audiobooks and music on my phones. 128GB would
not be sufficient.

>
>> FM radio,
>
> I can listen to most any station in the world on my phone online (but
> don't) so wouldn't miss FM capability if I had it. Perhaps many folks
> also? Except perhaps for those on a cheap data budget.

You can do this when data is available, but not where you're in areas
with no cellular coverage. But it's true, that except in natural
disasters, the use of the FM radio is rare.

>> ANT+,
>
> Never needed it on my treadmill...  ;)

A lot of existing fitness equipment uses ANT+, but there are adapters to
use on phones without ANT+ (all iPhones, and many Android phones). But
dongles are a hassle.

>> MST.
>
> I still find it easier to dig out my credit card and wave it at the
> payment terminal than my phone. YMMV. And the Applebee's waitress would
> give me a funny look if I waved my phone at her anyway...

Well you eat at Applebee's so that explains a lot! But seriously, I find
MST very useful at businesses that don't take Google Pay or Apple Pay,
and since I get 3% back on mobile wallet purchases it's useful
especially when buying big ticket items.

[sms]

Samsung and Apple are really the only two manufacturers that make an
effort to roll out multiple full OS updates for their devices, and for
Samsung it's only on their flagship devices, not their mid-range or
low-end devices. Mid-range devices may get one update if a new Android
version is announced shortly after the device is released.

[nospam]

In article <sspjcu$gda$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> >> ANT+,
> >
> > Never needed it on my treadmill...  ;)
>
> A lot of existing fitness equipment uses ANT+, but there are adapters to
> use on phones without ANT+ (all iPhones, and many Android phones). But
> dongles are a hassle.

that is very much false. most modern fitness equipment and health
devices uses bluetooth le and can even connect to apple watches,
without any adapters or hacks.

ant+ is dead, and barely was even alive.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:34:54 -0800, sms wrote:

> Pre-pandemic, when I was sometimes riding mass-transit, I would look to
> see how many people were using wired versus wireless earpods. This was
> back in early 2020, and back then it was about 60% wired/40% wireless.

The aux jack is a basic requirement for low end & medium phones, I'd say.

There is a reason a headphone jack is on something like over 99% of Android
models, where the only phones "getting away with" decontenting are the most
expensive ones, where the buyer will be likely getting fancy bluetooth sets.

>>> MicroSD card slot,
>>
>> My phone has 128GB storage so I've never needed to use the card slot.
>> Perhaps many folks also? It may also go away on most new models?
>
> I like to keep a lot of audiobooks and music on my phones. 128GB would
> not be sufficient.

The sdcard is _not_ only used to compensate for lousy permanent storage.

*When you have essentially infinite storage on the phone*, you can do a lot
more things than if you have to do all those things only using a cloud.

Which, incidentally, is why MARKETING removes the sdcard, where again, if
it's a higher end phone, then the owner doesn't care about renting 400GB of
storage on the cloud for his expensive phone to be able to do those things.

>>> FM radio,
>>
>> I can listen to most any station in the world on my phone online (but
>> don't) so wouldn't miss FM capability if I had it. Perhaps many folks
>> also? Except perhaps for those on a cheap data budget.
>
> You can do this when data is available, but not where you're in areas
> with no cellular coverage. But it's true, that except in natural
> disasters, the use of the FM radio is rare.

I have to agree also that I rarely use FM radio as not only do you have to
have it set up ahead of time (because if you're using it, you don't have
Internet access most likely), and worse, you also need headphones in hand.

Still... it's a nice feature just as 911 is a nice feature, even if you
rarely use it because you _want_ it there when you do _need_ it.

>>> ANT+,
>>
>> Never needed it on my treadmill...  ;)
>
> A lot of existing fitness equipment uses ANT+, but there are adapters to
> use on phones without ANT+ (all iPhones, and many Android phones). But
> dongles are a hassle.

I didn't know what ANT+ even was until you mentioned it, where it seems like
a nice feature for a higher end phone, but maybe not for a low end phone.

>
>>> MST.
>>
>> I still find it easier to dig out my credit card and wave it at the
>> payment terminal than my phone. YMMV. And the Applebee's waitress would
>> give me a funny look if I waved my phone at her anyway...
>
> Well you eat at Applebee's so that explains a lot! But seriously, I find
> MST very useful at businesses that don't take Google Pay or Apple Pay,
> and since I get 3% back on mobile wallet purchases it's useful
> especially when buying big ticket items.

I didn't know what MST even was until you mentioned it, where it seems like
a nice feature for a high end phone, but perhaps not for a low end phone.

[Alan]

On 2022-01-25 1:09 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:34:54 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> Pre-pandemic, when I was sometimes riding mass-transit, I would look to
>> see how many people were using wired versus wireless earpods. This was
>> back in early 2020, and back then it was about 60% wired/40% wireless.
>
> The aux jack is a basic requirement for low end & medium phones, I'd say.

And the floppy disk is a basic requirement for low-end & medium PCs.

>
> There is a reason a headphone jack is on something like over 99% of Android
> models,

It isn't.

There are 2225 Android phones currently available or coming soon:

<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>

Modify that to include only phones with an 3.5mm jack, and you get 1843
phones.

<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>

Now.. ...I'm not a professional mathematician...

...but 99% of 2225 is about... ...2203 (approximately)...

...and you're claiming it is "something like over" that.

..and it's just not.

> where the only phones "getting away with" decontenting are the most
> expensive ones, where the buyer will be likely getting fancy bluetooth sets.

That might be interesting...

...if you had actually stuck to facts.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:44:16 -0500, nospam wrote:

> ant+ is dead, and barely was even alive.

I had never looked up ANT+ until Steve mentioned it, where it seems like
something that belongs on a higher end phone more so than on a budget phone.

[nospam]

In article <sspqth$1bn7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > ant+ is dead, and barely was even alive.
>
> I had never looked up ANT+ until Steve mentioned it, where it seems like
> something that belongs on a higher end phone more so than on a budget phone.

it's very rarely used and not needed on anything. if it was popular and
in high demand, you would have heard of it and it would be a common
feature.

[AJL]

On 1/25/2022 12:34 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/25/2022 7:33 AM, AJL wrote:

>> My phone has 128GB storage so I've never needed to use the card
>> slot.

> I like to keep a lot of audiobooks

That must be a whole lot of audiobooks to threaten 128GB. But YMMV. I
only keep the ebooks that I'm currently reading on my phone, usually 2
or 3 at most. The rest of my ebook collection, if needed, is easily
available in the cloud. And if I used audiobooks I doubt 2 or 3 would
take up all that much room.

> and music on my phones.

YMMV. Just checked. My 4,794 song collection takes up 28.6 GB. A long
way from 128GB. Course I don't listen to music on my phone anyway so it
doesn't figure in my storage needs.

> 128GB would not be sufficient.

Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:37:18 -0800, sms wrote:

> Samsung and Apple are really the only two manufacturers that make an
> effort to roll out multiple full OS updates for their devices, and for
> Samsung it's only on their flagship devices, not their mid-range or
> low-end devices. Mid-range devices may get one update if a new Android
> version is announced shortly after the device is released.

While the Android update is only a curiosity for me (I am perfectly happy
with one or two Android releases per phone just as I am for Windows 10),
I _thought_ it was more than just Samsung who rolls our multiple OS updates.

Doesn't Google do it too?

Searching, we find even more than just Samsung so I think Steve's data may
be outdated but maybe he's talking about a different kind of update?
*Best brands for Android updates*
<https://www.techadvisor.com/buying-advice/google-android/best-brands-for-android-updates-3798154/>

*Which manufacturer updates its phones the fastest? *
<https://www.androidauthority.com/android-11-rollout-1201648/>

*Android 12 is available for these phones*
<https://www.techradar.com/news/android-12-news>

Lot's more are in those lists than just Samsung so I'm not sure what Steve
is claiming as maybe I didn't understand his claim, but I check them all.
--
It's what intelligent people do (which is _why_ they're intelligent).

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:51:25 -0700, AJL wrote:

> Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
> population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
> that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
> either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...

It's clear this AJL doesn't _understand_ what sdcard storage actually is.

AJL "thinks" only one dimensionally.
He "thinks" the sdcard is there _only_ to augment the existing storage.

Sure, it _does_ that (i.e., you now have almost infinite cheap storage).

But it does _more_ than that.
Far more in fact.

*The purpose of the sdcard is to give you a variety of _choices_*!

For example, you can easily _port_ your phone from one to another.
Without putting your private data on the Internet, for example.

That, and many other _choices_ are why they decontent the sdcard.
The (admittedly brilliant) marketing team wants to _limit_ your choices.

They want you to do everything on the cloud, for example.
They _hate_ when you don't _need_ that cloud, for example.

People like this AJL can't _understand_ that concept of having a choice.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:51:14 -0500, nospam wrote:

>>> ant+ is dead, and barely was even alive.
>>
>> I had never looked up ANT+ until Steve mentioned it, where it seems like
>> something that belongs on a higher end phone more so than on a budget phone.
>
> it's very rarely used and not needed on anything. if it was popular and
> in high demand, you would have heard of it and it would be a common
> feature.

I'm not gonna disagree with you on ANT+ as this is a _budget_ phone thread.
Certainly I'd not ask for ANT+ on a $200 cellphone.

I'm not sure of what _belongs_ on low & high end phones, but I know what I'd
_expect_ if I were buying either the low end phone or the higher end phone.

For a budget phone, something like this in that list is what I'd expect.
sdcard (it gives you _choices_ like you can't believe)
aux jack (it's there if you need it and it is cheap to use)
fm radio (it's like 911 to be there when you really need it)

For a higher-end phone, I'd expect more stuff in that list, maybe like this:
sdcard (it gives you _choices_ like you can't believe)
aux jack (it's there if you need it and it is cheap to use)
fm radio (it's like 911 to be there when you really need it)
ANT+ (you should have the choice to do that sort of BT stuff)
MST (you should be able to have the choice to pay any way you like)
UPDATES (I'm guessing the convenience of five years of updates is nice)

[nospam]

In article <ssprct$8q7$1...@dont-email.me>, AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:

>
> > 128GB would not be sufficient.
>
> Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
> population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
> that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
> either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...

a very good guess. most people stream content and don't need space for
music or videos. phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital,
either usb-c or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable
connection. card slots are rarely used.

people want high-capacity phones because they *create* content on them.
shooting 4k or 8k video can easily fill 128 gig very quickly, which is
why the highest capacity phone is currently 1tb.

[nospam]

In article <ssprrb$1opd$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> *The purpose of the sdcard is to give you a variety of _choices_*!
>
> For example, you can easily _port_ your phone from one to another.
> Without putting your private data on the Internet, for example.

an sd card is not needed to do that, and it's not the most efficient
method either.

[nospam]

In article <ssps8m$1ur5$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure of what _belongs_ on low & high end phones

fortunately, phone manufacturers have a pretty good idea, some more so
than others.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:28 -0500, nospam wrote:

> card slots are rarely used.

The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.

As just _one_ example of choices, if you have a 128GB phone, you can port
_everything_ on that phone, without worries, to your sdcard (en masse).

And then pop that sdcard out of the old phone into the new phone, and port
it back... all without using the cloud solutions they _want_ you to use.

You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that
the biggest advantage of sdcards is the infinite _choices_ they provide.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:29 -0500, nospam wrote:

> an sd card is not needed to do that, and it's not the most efficient
> method either.

You clearly do not _understand_ sdcards, nospam.

You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that

*the biggest advantage of sdcards are the infinite _choices_ they provide*.

The main reason Apple restricts that choice is to force you onto the cloud.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:19:33 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> The main reason Apple restricts that choice is to force you onto the cloud.

Oh wait...

Not only does the lack of sdcards force you onto the iCloud, but Apple is
also desperate to force you into using the iTunes abomination also!

*How to copy files anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad over Windows USB*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/qmkDxzo4bN0>

*The whole point of removing the sdcard is to _limit_ your choices*.

[AJL]

On 1/25/2022 3:07 PM, nospam wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:

>> I'm GUESSING that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of
>> phones won't have a headphone jack.

> phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital, either usb-c
> or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable connection.

I doubt most folks are going to carry around a dongle with their phones
just to get higher quality audio to their PITA wired earphones. My GUESS
is that they will stop providing dongles in the package (if many haven't
already). My second GUESS (lots of guesses today) is that wireless
earbuds will become (is already?) the standard...

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:07:30 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> I'm not sure of what _belongs_ on low & high end phones
>
> fortunately, phone manufacturers have a pretty good idea, some more so
> than others.

Which is exactly why almost all current Android phones already have
gte 6.5" screens
sdcard slot
headphone jack
FM radio
Huge batteries
USB-C data/charging
Fast charger _in the box!_
gte 64GB/4GB
gte40MP front/back cameras
Fingerprint sensor
Wi-Fi, GPS, BT, NFC, FM, and 5G radios

Don't they?

For you, it's clear Apple removes choices so that you have to buy it back.
It's just as clear that the big Android companies would love to copy Apple.

It has been a while since we last checked, but last we had a thread on it,
when Samsung removed those choices above, it was a disaster for them.

Especially when even Samsung's _lowest_ end phone (which I think I may have)
already has _all_ of that in the list of things to expect on all phones.

Does it not?
<https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a32_5g-10648.php>

[nospam]

In article <sspstu$8rg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.

that is false.

not all cloud solutions have fees and people can set up their own
private cloud, usually little more than installing some software and
maybe configuring their router.

> As just _one_ example of choices, if you have a 128GB phone, you can port
> _everything_ on that phone, without worries, to your sdcard (en masse).

in this case, an sd card is a horrible choice because that can be done
a lot more efficiently *without* a card or the cloud.

> And then pop that sdcard out of the old phone into the new phone, and port
> it back... all without using the cloud solutions they _want_ you to use.
>
> You only know Apple who restricts choice so you can't even comprehend that
> the biggest advantage of sdcards is the infinite _choices_ they provide.

that is false. with apple, you only need to put the two phones near
each other, confirm the transfer (so that randos can't gain access) and
then the phones will copy stuff from one to the other. this has been
explained to you many times but you ignore it because you want to
troll.

[nospam]

In article <ssptcb$nk2$1...@dont-email.me>, AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:

> >> I'm GUESSING that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of
> >> phones won't have a headphone jack.
>
> > phones still have a headphone jack, it's just digital, either usb-c
> > or lightning, for a higher quality and more reliable connection.
>
> I doubt most folks are going to carry around a dongle with their phones
> just to get higher quality audio to their PITA wired earphones.

no dongle required. both lightning and usb-c headphones exist, and when
the transition first began, were included in the box with the phones.

those that do use dongles leave them attached to their headphones.

> My GUESS
> is that they will stop providing dongles in the package (if many haven't
> already).

your guess is correct. phones used to include either or both, but that
has recently changed because most people already have at least one, if
not more.

<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/pixel-3-includes-usb-c-headphones-dong
le-in-the-box/>
The phones, unveiled at a Google event on Tuesday, come with the
new Google Pixel USB-C earbuds, as well as a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter
for using legacy headphones.

> My second GUESS (lots of guesses today) is that wireless
> earbuds will become (is already?) the standard...

another correct guess. are you sure you're not cheating? :)

bluetooth headphones have outsold similar quality wired headphones for
a while.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:59 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
>> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.
>
> that is false.

Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
*Name just one*

Why do you think Apple consciously made the "courageous" decision to _not_
provide you any _choice_ of sdcard, an aux jack or removable batteries?

The sdcard gives you choice.

Simple proof of concept it to ask you to name just one choice that you lose
by having an sdcard (i.e., you have _more_ choices with sd than without sd).

Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
*Name just one*

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:42:00 -0500, nospam wrote:

> bluetooth headphones have outsold similar quality wired headphones for
> a while.

Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.

*I agree with you that decontenting is designed to make you buy it back.*

I have a box of wired headphones, nospam, so I don't need to _buy_ anything.
Sure, I could use Bluetooth headphones, if I chose to do so.

But I also have the _choice_ of wired headphones if I want.

The headphone jack on 99% of Android phones is all about _choice_ nospam.
*Choice*

We have _choices_ that those without headphone jacks simply do not have.
--
And in an emergency, we have a _choice_ of FM radio (which you don't have).

[Alan]

On 2022-01-25 2:49 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:59 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> The advantage of card slots is the user has infinite free _choice_ which the
>>> marketing teams that sell cloud-based solutions want the user to _pay_ for.
>>
>> that is false.
>
> Name just one _choice_ you lose by having an sdcard option, nospam.
> *Name just one*

The false bit was "pay for".

[nospam]

In article <sspvbc$1am4$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.

they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:16 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
>> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.
>
> they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
> not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
> headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.

Thank God Apple is so "courageous" in continually decontenting iPhones!

sdcard
Apple "courageously" gave you no choice in sdcards, nospam, so for internal
memory you have to choose _only_ what Apple gives you, and for expansion,
you have to choose something _other_ than the missing sdcard.

aux & FM
Apple "courageously" removed the headphone jack (and any chance of the FM
radio ever working in an emergency) where it's nice Apple is so courageous
as to not care if your headphone battery dies or if you can't reach the
Internet in an emergency.

Apple wants you to be _"courageous"_ too... just like Apple is courageous.

Apple wants you to continually _buy_ back stuff Apple purposefully
decontented, which was your point about people being forced to buy back what
Apple oh so very courageously removed.

Thank God Apple courageously removed the fast USB-C charger in the box too.
*Think about the kids*

[Alan]

On 2022-01-25 4:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:16 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> Notice you talk not about /choice/ but about how much _profit_ Apple and
>>> others gain by removing the _choice_ of wired headphones from the equation.
>>
>> they didn't remove any choice. what they did was *add* choices, because
>> not only do wired headphones continue to work just fine, but digital
>> headphones can also offer more features that are possible with analog.
>
> Thank God Apple is so "courageous" in continually decontenting iPhones!

And Apple thanks people for loving the products they make.

[sms]

nospam is wrong of course™. He's been on this "digital headphone jack"
schtick for a long time, insisting that the Lightning port has
transitioned into a "digital headphone jack" (and presumably the USB-C
port on Android phones also made that magical transition). Well yes, you
can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
headphone jack," not even Apple makes a claim like that!

No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
iPhones. Where the dongles come in handy, versus wireless, is for online
meetings if you have to take them on a phone instead of a computer. A
wired headset, even a cheap one, with a boom mike works much better than
any of the wireless earpods.

In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
(wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation. But one
woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

You can buy a Bluetooth stereo headset with a boom mike, but a good one,
with low latency, is expensive <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F83TPF8/>
and of course it's one more thing to keep charged. A dongle is less than
$10.

The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
so easily. On Nextdoor we constantly see posts about lost Airpods that
fell out when someone was out running or walking, see
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851030/new-york-mta-apple-airpods-subway-tracks>.

[nospam]

In article <sss2sv$dct$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Well yes, you
> can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
> the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
> separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
> headphone jack,"

yes it does make it a digital headphone jack since the path is digital
from the phone to the connected headphones.

> No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
> iPhones.

adapters are no longer included because most people already have at
least one. a small number of people do not, but not enough to justify
including an adapter for everyone, most of whom do not need another
that they won't use.

> In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
> (wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
> the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation.

rubbish.

first of all, airpods are only wireless, thus the name *air* pods. the
wired version are called earpods.

second, the quality of either is excellent, which is why airpods and
earpods are very frequently seen during interviews on various news
outlets and podcasts, sometimes even for the hosts. it's not difficult
to identify them.

> But one
> woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
> spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
> she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

that's not the fault of the headphones she's using.

>
> The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
> so easily.

no they very definitely don't easily fall out.

you've obviously never used them and are just spewing bullshit, as you
normally do.

for airpods pro, which have noise cancelling, there is a tight seal in
the ear to block ambient sounds so that the noise cancellation can
work, which makes it nearly impossible to just fall out.

different sized tips are provided so that each person can choose the
best fit, which may even vary from one ear to the other on the same
person. there are also third party tips available.

another reason that they don't easily fall out is that there is no
cable tugging at the part that sits in the ear or to get caught in
something.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:11:41 -0800, sms wrote:

> nospam is wrong of course He's been on this "digital headphone jack"

> schtick for a long time, insisting that the Lightning port has
> transitioned into a "digital headphone jack" (and presumably the USB-C
> port on Android phones also made that magical transition).

What nospam is doing is fabricating senseless excuses for why Apple did it.

He is just making inane excuses for why Apple decontents iPhones, slowly but
surely, removing one fundamental piece of hardware in virtually every iPhone
revision, one by one, inexorably so, for one reason and for one reason only.
*Apple "courageously" removes hardware so users are forced to _buy_ it back*

Then for nospam to claim that the headphone jack wasn't removed after all,
it was just replaced with an idiotic additional extra dongle, is ridiculous.

> Well yes, you
> can buy earbuds that plug into a Lightning port or USB-C port, and have
> the converter from digital to analog audio built in (instead of a
> separate dongle), but that doesn't turn a Lighting port into a "digital
> headphone jack," not even Apple makes a claim like that!

The best way to understand nospam is to assume he will brazenly fabricate
any excuse for what Apple does (even excuses Apple themselves won't claim).

If Usenet is a team sport, nospam is the cheerleader for Apple products.

> No more dongles are included. I have a couple of dongles for our
> iPhones. Where the dongles come in handy, versus wireless, is for online
> meetings if you have to take them on a phone instead of a computer. A
> wired headset, even a cheap one, with a boom mike works much better than
> any of the wireless earpods.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

> In my Toastmasters club, we had to tell people to stop using Airpods
> (wired or wireless) with their laptops because the audio quality from
> the microphone was so poor, as was the noise cancellation. But one
> woman, using a wired headset, we were hearing periodic noise when she
> spoke and we could not figure out the source. When we told her about it
> she said, "oh, that's my cat snoring."

The fact that a wired headset has multiple huge advantages over wireless is
the reason why over 99% of Android devices have that basic functionality.

> You can buy a Bluetooth stereo headset with a boom mike, but a good one,
> with low latency, is expensive <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F83TPF8/>
> and of course it's one more thing to keep charged. A dongle is less than
> $10.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

Apple wants to _restrict_ your choices.

> The other issue with wireless earpods is that they fall out and get lost
> so easily. On Nextdoor we constantly see posts about lost Airpods that
> fell out when someone was out running or walking, see
> <https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20851030/new-york-mta-apple-airpods-subway-tracks>.

It's about choice.
With a headphone jack, you have a _choice_ of the type of headset you want.

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
[...]

> Perhaps for some geeks no. But I'm GUESSING that for 90+ percent of the
> population, 128GB is way more than sufficient. And I'm further GUESSING
> that in the not too distant future 90+ percent of phones won't have
> either a headphone jack or a card slot. Sorry geeks...

Well, then we'll have to stick a SSD drive and a Bluetooth receiver to
the back of our phones, won't we!?

[sms]

I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough. Sure I
could spend a lot of time adding and deleting content to fit into 128GB
but that's not how I choose to spend my time.

However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
then you can get by with less local storage on the device. I guess that
this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not take the extra $500
for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in exchange for recurring
subscription revenue.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:50:54 -0800, sms wrote:

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
> an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

The sdslot gives you _choice_ of where you want to put supplemental data.
*Contrary to what AJL claims - sdcards are _not_ just to augment storage.*

For example, you can't choose to pop put the 128GB of expensive storage that
AJL claims eliminates a need for sdcard slots & pop it into another device.

What these unfathomably ignorant people like AJL don't understand is this:
*sdcard === choice*

[AJL]

On 1/27/2022 9:50 AM, sms wrote:

> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough.

I think you'll agree that that most folks don't do that with their
phones and thus can easily live within 128GB, and many (most?) with much
much less storage.

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions.
> It's an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

It may be the ONLY way in a few years when the slots go away.

> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
> then you can get by with less local storage on the device.

I have 4794 songs in 28.6GB in my collection. If I put them all on my
phone I'd still have 100GB left. Your collection must be very large
indeed. Again not what most would need on their phones.

> I guess that this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not
> take the extra $500 for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in
> exchange for recurring subscription revenue.

You forgot to add the Apple group...

[nospam]

In article <ssuihf$db4$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough. Sure I
> could spend a lot of time adding and deleting content to fit into 128GB
> but that's not how I choose to spend my time.

there's no reason to spend any time at all because it can be completely
automated, based on whatever criteria you want, which can be changed at
any time. it's also possible to put your own personal music collection
online to be streamed.

> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions. It's
> an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.

people who buy 1tb phones want to use them for 4k/8k video, not to
store music, often for business purposes, where the revenue from
creating videos pays for the phones, which is actually among the least
of the expenses in video production.

> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
> then you can get by with less local storage on the device. I guess that
> this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not take the extra $500
> for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in exchange for recurring
> subscription revenue.

there is no requirement that streaming be from apple. in fact, most
streaming is *not* from apple. also, $500 today is better than $500 in
monthly installments over 50-100 months (4-8 *years*). your claim holds
no water whatsoever.

the reality is that most people stream audio and video from many
services, including spotify, netflix, amazon, pandora, youtube, apple,
etc., where they have access to just about everything, versus buying
their own music and videos.

<https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrosenblatt/2017/04/17/new-data-shows-t
hat-more-people-want-to-access-music-than-own-it/>
...But more importantly, streaming services are now the majority
source of recorded music revenue, bigger than downloads, CDs
and vinyl combined.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:38:45 -0700, AJL wrote:

>> I put my whole music collection on my phone. 128GB isn't enough.
>
> I think you'll agree that that most folks don't do that with their
> phones and thus can easily live within 128GB, and many (most?) with much
> much less storage.

Given you now have 128 GB of "stuff" on your phone, if your phone breaks (as
mine did recently as described elsewhere where the port was broken), how do
you transfer all your "stuff" from the old phone to the new phone?

What's the key _choice_ you don't have if you don't have an sdcard slot?

>> However now I see that flagship phones are offering 1TB versions.
>> It's an expensive way to buy Flash storage, but it works.
>
> It may be the ONLY way in a few years when the slots go away.

Almost all phones have the sdslot but assuming AJL's prediction is correct,
the sdslot will only go away when the _choice_ of popping the card out of
one phone and popping it back into the other phone has a complete solution.

>> If you pay monthly fees for music, audiobooks, ebooks, movies, etc.,
>> then you can get by with less local storage on the device.
>
> I have 4794 songs in 28.6GB in my collection. If I put them all on my
> phone I'd still have 100GB left. Your collection must be very large
> indeed. Again not what most would need on their phones.

You're at T-Mobile (like I was) and they hand you a new phone (like they did
for me) and then you have to _populate_ that phone, right then and there.

What choices do you have to do that (which I did) without the sdcard?

>> I guess that this would please Apple very much, they'd gladly not
>> take the extra $500 for a 1TB iPhone versus a 128GB iPhone in
>> exchange for recurring subscription revenue.
>
> You forgot to add the Apple group...

Apple decontents phones so that you have to buy that functionality back.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:45:51 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the reality is that most people stream audio and video from many
> services, including spotify, netflix, amazon, pandora, youtube, apple,
> etc., where they have access to just about everything, versus buying
> their own music and videos.

Despite nospam's excuses, the sdcard provides a _choice_ for your data.
*Without that sdcard slot, you don't have that choice.*