How to copy files both ways anywhere you want to/from iPhone/iPad over USB between Windows & iOS using Linux

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 13, 2022, 11:30:03 AM1/13/22

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How can a user copy files both ways anywhere they want
to and from an iPhone/iPad over USB between Windows & iOS?

Apple always designs things so you're forced to use their clusterfuck,
but we shouldn't have to resort to Apple's clusterfuck just for file copy.
a. Slide files both ways into any app storage location we wish
b. Using just the Windows file manager over a USB cable

It's clear by all intelligent accounts that iTunes is a clusterfuck, but
what's not as clear is how to get around the fact that Apple creates
problems so that you will use Apple clusterfuck software to get around them.

*Specifically how to move files _both_ ways over _USB_ between Windows/iOS?*

To address the inevitable Apple aficionado's claim that iTunes it not a
clusterfuck, let's just list three huge well-known problems with iTunes.
1. The Apple Windows iTunes is a canonical example of unnecessary bloatware
2. Apple doesn't test the free Windows iTunes for serious vulnerabilities
3. The Windows iTunes clusterfuck inevitably destroys your file collection

Since I only speak facts, these are references backing up those statements
(which are provided to address inevitable Apple nutcases' denial of fact).
1. <https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>
2. <https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/11/vulnerability-in-itunes/>
3. <https://www.easeus.com/iphone-data-transfer/transfer-files-from-pc-to-ipad.html>

Moving on, we can ask _what_ is the best solution to the iTunes clusterfuck?
I don't know.

I just know I had used iTunes many times until I realized that it's a
clusterfuck so bad there was more functionality without it than with it.
(e.g., SharePod freeware works better but iTunes prevented it from working.)

What I do is dual boot to Ubuntu which has a native iFuse implementation.
a. You boot to Ubuntu (with Windows hibernation turned off)
b. You connect _anything_ to it via USB (iOS, Android, SSD drives, whatever)
c. You slide files _both ways_ (yes, it can _write_ to the iOS file system)

Notice (if hibernation is disabled) you have access to the entire Windows
file system (save for one or two specially protected Windows files in the
system32 directory which you wouldn't touch anyway - and which is why
they're specially protected) at the time that you're booted to Ubuntu.

I repeat:
a. When you're booted to Ubuntu you have full access to Windows' file system
b. That's read and write
c. Just as you have full access to the visible file system of Android & iOS

Notice without the iTunes clusterfuck you have read & write access to the
entire visible file system of any connected USB storage device.

Without iTunes you have _simultaneous_ read/write filesystem access to/from:
A. Linux
B. Windows
C. Any smartphone or tablet (including iPhone/iPad)

Note that without iTunes, you're not limited only to an iPhone or iPad that
is specifically registered to an Apple-tracked iCloud account (which is
forced upon _all_ iPhones and iPads as a way for Apple to keep tabs).

This works.
However, there must be other ways to use slide files both ways over USB.

Perhaps even _better_ ways?
Are there?

nospam

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Jan 13, 2022, 11:39:04 AM1/13/22

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In article <srpk28$cea$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Perhaps even _better_ ways?
> Are there?

yes.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 13, 2022, 12:45:46 PM1/13/22

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On 2022-01-13, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> How can a user copy files both ways anywhere they want

As predicted, Arlen's new nym post was just an excuse to spew is
ultra-complicated laborious procedure to the newsgroup while injecting
his lame little juvenile digs at Apple along the way.

[wall of useless troll ramblings rightfully ignored]

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 13, 2022, 1:34:35 PM1/13/22

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On 13 Jan 2022 17:45:43 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> ultra-complicated laborious procedure to the newsgroup while injecting
> his lame little juvenile digs at Apple along the way.

I'm asking for a solution for an appropriate question of these newsgroups.
*How to USB copy both ways between Linux/Windows and the iOS file system*

That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask of these three newsgroups.

If all you can do is make childish comments about that request, then that
says absolutely nothing about me - it says _everything_ about you. Not me.

We all know, from experience, why you _hate_ any question about cross
platform functionality between any of the common operating systems, where
I'm asking you to either suggest a workable solution, or stop trolling us.

According to a post today by Paul in another related thread, a possible
solution to the common problem set of read write over USB may be iFuse.
(verbatim to the end, from Paul)

Windows has two mechanisms for FUSE file systems.
1) IFS (Installable File System), used by Microsoft itself in one case.
2) Dokany (third party framework for IFS like functions)

This is the Linux thing. The naming convention "libimobiledevice"
is reminiscent of the package name of one of the MSI files within
Windows iTunes installer (AppleMobileDeviceSupport64.msi).
That suggests the inspiration.

https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse

Now, you might ask yourself why Microsoft doesn't write one.

The answer is, that companies jealously guard their ecosystems.
Do you remember all the chat wars? Where someone would make a tool
that interworked with someone elses chat, and the other party would
immediately rework the code, so the foreign code no longer worked ?

That's why you don't invade someone elses garden. It might seem
like a good idea at the time, but it can be thwarted in just
a couple weeks. And you can play tit for tat forever.

Look at youtube-dl and Youtube.com , for an example of
continuous warfare. One side wanting to enable download
without commercials, the other working to stop it.

*******

By mixing libimobiledevice and dokany in a search,
you can find requests like this. And that's how just about
all Dokany projects work - they're barely visible and impossible
to find unless you have a good idea they are there (somewhere).
And you have no idea of the skill set or the intentions
of these projects (because there might not be enough reviewers
to find out).

https://github.com/libimobiledevice-win32/libimobiledevice-vs/pull/23

Just because someone submits something, doesn't mean it gets accepted.

https://github.com/libimobiledevice-win32/libimobiledevice-vs/pull/23/commits/c544c427b73c398a9aea760dc3534b2c89399ac2

If you read the details, some of the things being done there, the
documentation is not complete, and there are security issues too.

*******

You can always multiboot the PC side of this, run Linux on it and
use the Linux version there to do the job. It's not an ideal solution,
but it will at least satisfy your curiosity as to how well it works.

A second possibility, is install Linux in VirtualBox, then use USB
Passthru in VBox to communicate with the iPad. This will bring the
files into the Guest session in VirtualBox, followed by a transfer
from there, to the Host. Until you get the hang of doing that in
VirtualBox, there will be hair loss doing that. VirtualBox tends to,
at random, block the success of these little experiments. Sometimes
I have to reinstall VirtualBox three times in Windows, before, out of
the blue, it starts working. It may remain working, for a long time.

Paul

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 13, 2022, 1:46:12 PM1/13/22

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On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:39:01 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Perhaps even _better_ ways?
>> Are there?
>
> yes.

Functionality anyone would want is to be able to slide files over USB
between any PC running either Linux or Windows to & from the visible file
system of any iOS device (whether or not that particular iOS device is
permanently "registered" with the Apple mothership) just like you already
can easily do for non iOS "smart" devices using the PC's native graphical
file manager.

As Paul suggested, a possibly best solution for both Linux & Windows seems
to be a platform-specific port of "iFuse" (where it appears that the iFuse
port is already supplied native in the current Ubuntu desktop distros).

Given the Canonical team has already included a Linux port of iFuse in their
Ubuntu distros, what we need to find, as Paul suggested, is a Windows port.
<https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
"A fuse filesystem implementation to access the contents of iOS devices."
Features
This project allows mounting various directories of an iOS device locally
using the FUSE file system interface.

Some key features are:
*Media*: Mount media directory of an iOS device locally
*Apps*: Mount sandbox container or document directory of an app
*Browse*: Allows to retrieve a list of installed file-sharing enabled apps
*Implementation*: Uses libimobiledevice for communication with the device
*Jailbreak*: Mount root filesystem on jailbroken devices
(requires AFC2 service)

If anyone has installed a Windows port of iFuse who can help out, that's
what we need to solve this problem so that everyone always benefits.

Hank Rogers

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Jan 13, 2022, 1:55:41 PM1/13/22

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It's simple:
Create a shared folder on windows system. Turn on wifi on the apple
phone. Login to your wifi router. Now, in files app, that shared
folder will show up as a location. You can transfer files into it
or out of it with your clusterfucked files app, or probably any
other file manager app that works how you like.

Good luck.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 13, 2022, 2:04:53 PM1/13/22

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On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 12:55:34 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:

> It's simple:

Many of these files are astoundingly huge and there are lots of them.

> Create a shared folder on windows system. Turn on wifi on the apple
> phone. Login to your wifi router. Now, in files app, that shared
> folder will show up as a location. You can transfer files into it
> or out of it with your clusterfucked files app, or probably any
> other file manager app that works how you like.

It's even simpler, it turns out, if you are already booting to Ubuntu.
1. Connect _anything_ (Android, iOS, SSD) via USB to the Ubuntu-booted PC
2. Just slide any files (read/write) using any desired Ubuntu file manager

The problem is making it _that simple_ for Windows users (without Ubuntu).

For example, this works instantly no matter who "registered" the device!
1. Connect _anything but iOS_ via USB to the Windows-booted PC
2. Just slide any files (read/write) using any desired Windows file manager

All we're asking for is something _that simple_ to also work for iOS.
Can it be done?

How?

Hank Rogers

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Jan 13, 2022, 4:04:21 PM1/13/22

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Your method works perfectly for you, right?

So why would you even want to ask for, or even try yet another
clusterfucked apple solution? I know I wouldn't. Apple does things
in the most non-intuitive way possible, so I stick with things I've
found to work for *ME*.

For me, using shared folders is easy because once I enter my wifi
password, I never have to do that again unless the iphone is reset.
I just look in the files app (or whatever non-clusterfucked file
manager you prefer) and select the folder I want.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 13, 2022, 5:29:32 PM1/13/22

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On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:04:14 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:

> Your method works perfectly for you, right?

The iFuse method only works for iOS & Linux; not iOS & Windows.
What we want for Windows is the same thing we have working for Linux.

The ability to just plug any iOS device into your PC USB port and slide
files back and forth both ways to any other device (no matter whom that AiOS
device is "registered" to in the Apple mothership tracking log files).

The only people who can likely help are those who have already solved this.
Specifically those who know where there may be an iFuse port on Windows.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 13, 2022, 7:19:15 PM1/13/22

to

On 2022-01-13, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> On 13 Jan 2022 17:45:43 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> ultra-complicated laborious procedure to the newsgroup while injecting
>> his lame little juvenile digs at Apple along the way.
>
> I'm asking

Nope, you aren't interested in answers. The entire purpose of your posts
is to troll. Fuck off, loser.

[wall of overly-complicated bullshit from Arlen rightfully ignored]

Hank Rogers

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Jan 13, 2022, 7:24:53 PM1/13/22

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I see what you mean. Apple is out to get you. Take care. Hide as
best you can. Good luck.

Your Name

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:05:34 AM1/14/22

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Yep, his tinfoil hat is slipping and his medication needs drastically
increasing. :-\

RonTheGuy

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:55:48 AM1/14/22

to

On Jan 13, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:j4bts1...@mid.individual.net>):

> Nope, you aren't interested in answers. The entire purpose of your posts
> is to troll. Fuck off, loser.

I'd like to know the answer too.
Why don't you just answer the guy's question or not post if you can't?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Dan Purgert

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:11:40 AM1/14/22

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

(Followup set to alt.os.linux)

On the assumption that you've not seen one of Arlen's posts before, the
general flow is something like this:

1. Come up with some "solution" to a perceived problem, and describe it
with a mishmash of proper wording and his own made up processes. One of
my favorite examples was something along the lines of "A process to
'slide' files instantly to other devices"

2. People in whatever field will point out / question things like
(a) "file sliding" has no technical meaning, and ask what does he
really mean?

(b) even if we ignore "instant" file transfers being impossible for a
minute, the entire post you just made can be summed up as "How to
install a dropbox[1] client on your chosen OS/mobile".

(c) While we don't disagree that some/many will find this helpful, it
is not a universal answer, as it relies on an outside third party
(i.e. dropbox[1]) and there are people who have to worry about
data transfer caps.

3. Arlen will start on his ad hominem tirades that the other person is
just too stupid to understand the brilliance he is bringing to the
Usenet masses.

[1] Or any of the other "personal cloud as a service" providers --
gdrive, onedrive, etc.

HTH, HAND :D

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--
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O|

Paul

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Jan 14, 2022, 8:39:23 AM1/14/22

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To start with, some computer topics end up like this.

"Barrel of monkeys - plastic monkeys that join hands to make a longer chain"

https://www.tintoyarcade.com/image/cache/data/product/main/TTA3671-Barrel-of-Monkeys-Bright-Blue-01-1000x1000.jpg

Then, the recipes for using a device, become longer and longer.
Did you pat your head ? Did you rub your stomach ? Did you sing
"ninety nine bottles of beer", in reverse order ?

https://gizmodo.com/the-complete-guide-to-using-external-storage-on-ios-and-1838973117

https://appletoolbox.com/why-does-my-iphone-dcim-folder-appear-empty-on-a-pc/

It wouldn't take that many Google searches, to get enough monkeys
in a row to make a solution. We can't make this seem exclusionary
or difficult. (I like how one commenter plugs a Lightning based
flash storage device into the Lightning port... and it doesn't work.)

When I take pictures with my point and shoot digital camera,
I don't remember the transfer phase being particularly traumatic.
Maybe a point and shoot camera is the answer. With a DCIM that
tends to be visible when you need it.

Paul

Zaidy036

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:10:38 PM1/14/22

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I do not use Linux but will "Files" work? See it in App store.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:31:09 PM1/14/22

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On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> the general flow is something like this:

The fact is we're trying to come up with a working read/write USB solution.

The problem set of moving files back & forth is a valid question of this ng.
Dan Purgert by his own admission, is completely ignorant of the problem set.

Why did Purgert spout any assessment on how difficult problems are solved?
Dan Purgert did not provide a solution - he only complained there isn't one.

*We all know that, Dan Purgert*
*We all know there is no known solution to this problem set, Dan Purgert*
*What value do you add by complaining you don't understand the problem?*

It's Dan Purgert who brought up the "general flow" of how to solve problems.

The "general flow" (specific for this query) went something like this:
a. *We came up with a solution for Android* (USB read/write just works).
b. *We came up with a solution for Ubuntu* (USB read/write just works).
c. *We try to create a solution for Windows* (iOS USB read/write fails).

While it's obvious Dan Purgert doesn't own the tools to solve this
admittedly difficult problem, Paul did bring up tools that may work.

Not surprisingly, that Windows solution may very well depend on Linux tools!
A. As Paul found out, what we _need_ is an iFuse implementation for Windows.
B. As Paul surmised, Microsoft is not going to provide this iFuse solution.
C. So it's up to us to come up with a solution that uses Linux in Windows.

The good news is canonical _did_ provide this iFuse solution with Ubuntu.
The goal now is to figure out how to _implemement_ that solution on Windows.

1. Dual boot to Ubuntu works (as long as hibernation is inactivated).
2. WSL "may" work (I'm testing it currently & will report back if it works.
3. Ubuntu inside a Windows VM may also work (if it accepts USB hardware).
--
Most of this thread is the Apple kooks complaining we're not using iTunes
(which, as Ubuntu people know, doesn't work on Linux) and Windows people
know that adding iTunes actually _decreases_ cross platform functionality.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 14, 2022, 1:14:48 PM1/14/22

> Only people who are filesystem experts will be _capable_ of helping.

there is *no* need to be a filesystem expert to copy a file on an ios
device.

as usual, you are overcomplicating things, mostly so you can rant and
look like the fool that you are.

Zaidy036

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Jan 14, 2022, 3:51:07 PM1/14/22

to

"Files" will move or copy files from iOS/iPadOS to iCloud, DropBox,
OneDrive, and SanDisk Connect and then trivial to copy/move where you
want on another device.

"AirDisk" also has file storage and transfer capability.

Ken Hart

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Jan 14, 2022, 7:02:02 PM1/14/22

to

On 1/13/22 12:45 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2022-01-13, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> How can a user copy files both ways anywhere they want
>
> As predicted, Arlen's new nym post was just an excuse to spew is
> ultra-complicated laborious procedure to the newsgroup while injecting
> his lame little juvenile digs at Apple along the way.
>
> [wall of useless troll ramblings rightfully ignored]
>

What does it mean to "copy files both ways"?

If a files exists on device #1 and I copy it on device #2, it still
exists on device #1. It only went one way, from 1-->2, but it doesn't
need to go back to 1, it never left.

Is he confused about the difference between "copy" and "move"?

--
Ken Hart
kwh...@centurylink.net

Jolly Roger

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Jan 14, 2022, 7:16:55 PM1/14/22

to

On 2022-01-14, Zaidy036 <Zaid...@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>
> "Files" will move or copy files from iOS/iPadOS to iCloud, DropBox,
> OneDrive, and SanDisk Connect and then trivial to copy/move where you
> want on another device.

Files will also connect to file servers on your own LAN and let you
access files that way.

> "AirDisk" also has file storage and transfer capability.

I've had that app for ages. Still works great today.

nospam

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Jan 14, 2022, 8:28:30 PM1/14/22

to

In article <srt2to$me0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ken Hart

<kwh...@centurylink.net> wrote:

> > On 2022-01-13, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> How can a user copy files both ways anywhere they want
> >
> > As predicted, Arlen's new nym post was just an excuse to spew is
> > ultra-complicated laborious procedure to the newsgroup while injecting
> > his lame little juvenile digs at Apple along the way.
> >
> > [wall of useless troll ramblings rightfully ignored]
> >
>
> What does it mean to "copy files both ways"?

exactly as it says. copying files from either device to the other
device.

when automated, it's called syncing.

> If a files exists on device #1 and I copy it on device #2, it still
> exists on device #1. It only went one way, from 1-->2, but it doesn't
> need to go back to 1, it never left.

yep. now do it in the reverse direction, with a different file.

> Is he confused about the difference between "copy" and "move"?

he's confused about many things, and he's not the only person who is
confused either.

nospam

unread,

unread,

Jan 15, 2022, 11:37:28 AM1/15/22

to

All joking aside, can you please - once and for all - give *specific*
(i.e. not your usual dodges and diversions [1]) instructions on how to
copy pictures and videos from Windows to iPhone/iPad and vice versa,
*over a USB cable*, *without* using iTunes.

Don't do it for 'Arlen Holder', do it for the rest of us (yes, TIU),
so we don't have to have this endless and brainless back and forth for
the umpteenth time.

Thanks.

[1] You've claimed over and over that it's possible, easy, trivial,
<whatever>, but (AFAIK) have never been specific. If you - think - you
have been specific, then point to that/such_a post by Message-ID (and
Subject/Newsgroups/Date).

Jolly Roger

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Jan 15, 2022, 3:04:22 PM1/15/22

to

On 2022-01-15, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <srtv7t$hfb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
>> <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Tell us how we can copy those huge many files over 18 inches of USB
>>
>> ah hah! that's your problem. well, one of your many problems.
>>
>> everyone (except you, obviously) knows that file copying works only
>> up to 6 inches of usb because there isn't enough kernel pressure to
>> send files any farther than that. it's basic physics. in some rare
>> cases, it might work if the computer is above the ipad, allowing
>> gravity to assist, but this has been known to be unreliable and not a
>> solution.
>

> *over a USB cable*, *without* using iTunes

Obvious troll. You added "without using iTunes" because otherwise you'd
have to admit copying those files is easily done. : )

> [1] You've claimed over and over that it's possible, easy, trivial,
><whatever>

Because it is. And using iTunes doesn't make it impossible, hard,
non-trivial, <whatever>, as you and your troll butt buddies love to
claim.

nospam

unread,

> iTunes clusterfuck

As predicted, knowing full well that iTunes enables effortless file
transfers between computer and Apple devices, Arlen makes ridiculous
outlandish claims in order to convince himself and others that iTunes
definitely cannot be part of the solution. Unfortunately for Arlen,
those of us who have installed and used iTunes in Windows without issue
for decades know better - we slide files onto our Apple devices with
ease from our Windows computers: without any "fatal flaws", "needless
bloatware", "serious vulnerabilities", "destroyed files", or
"clusterfucks" - just simple, effortless file transfers with a couple
clicks. Arlen *hates* the fact that we do this with ease, because it
shows that he is completely full of shit. : )

> I don't know.

Oh, you know. You just *hate* admitting that anything useful can be done
with Apple devices. Your little, tiny Apple hate boner prevents you from
admitting the truth. ; )

> I had used iTunes many times

Nah. You probably haven't ever touched it.

> What I do is dual boot to Ubuntu blah blah blah

...all of which is more cumbersome and time consuming than sliding files
over using iTunes. : )

> I repeat:

You do that a *lot*, yes. Troll on if it makes you *feel* better.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 15, 2022, 7:59:37 PM1/15/22

to

On 15 Jan 2022 22:50:26 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Yep, "without iTunes" wasn't in the original requirements,

And yet... it _was_ there - despite this kook's claim to the contrary.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA>
Notice the _entire_ belief system of these Apple kooks is fabricated.

> and is only
> being added now because they *know* ahead of time that it's the simplest
> way to do what they claim to want to do.

And yet... it was always there in the original post original requirements.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/m/Jk1b8KF1BwAJ>

> Next, they'll claim that iTunes

> is "an abomination", a "horrible piece of software"...

Notice the _entire_ belief system of these Apple kooks is fabricated.

Actually, in the original post, we provided 3 links proving _everyone_ (but
the Apple kooks) says exactly _why_ the iTunes abomination is a clusterfuck.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/m/Jk1b8KF1BwAJ>

> it "too hard to
> install / remove", is "insecure", you name it - anything to attempt to
> state that it *can't* be part of the solution, you see.

In the original post, adults will note we already accurately predicted Apple
kooks like Jolly Roger & nospam would say _exactly_ what they're saying now.

> Meanwhile,
> iTunes does indeed allow you to transfer files to any app on an Apple
> mobile device from a computer with ease (with literally a couple clicks
> and a drag-and-drop operation). And while those of us who don't have
> strange, little Apple hate boners do this routinely with ease, these
> complete dip shit trolls will go out of their way to find alternative
> solutions that require much more cumbersome installations and setup to
> get the same job done (if at all), all while claiming it's easier and
> better, because: troll.

Despite the Apple kooks fabricating these claims, see the original post.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/m/Jk1b8KF1BwAJ>

In the OP are 3 URLs of experts saying exactly why iTunes is a clusterfuck.

In summary, the _entire_ belief system of these Apple kooks is fabricated.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Jan 15, 2022, 8:08:18 PM1/15/22

to

On 15 Jan 2022 23:14:58 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> makes ridiculous
> outlandish claims in order to convince himself and others that iTunes
> definitely cannot be part of the solution.

Bear in mind these 3 Apple kooks defend Apple to the death, no matter what.
a. nospam
b. Lewis
c. Jolly Roger

These Apple kooks are attempting to derail the technical topic by pretending
that everything which was in the original post, isn't in that original post.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA/m/Jk1b8KF1BwAJ>

That's how kooky they are.
They even claim that the experts are all wrong.

What's interesting is that URLs to the _experts_ who claimed iTunes is a
clusterfuck are shown in original post which these three kooks deny exists.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux/c/Nxyt6qmE7YA>

What's interesting is the _experts_ (not me) are who claimed that iTunes is
a. Unsafe (completely untested by Apple!)
b. Unsafe (it _will_ destroy your file collection!)
c. Unsafe (it contains tons of unnecessary bloatware)

Here are the exact links provided in the original post which the kooks deny.

1. <https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>
2. <https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/11/vulnerability-in-itunes/>
3. <https://www.easeus.com/iphone-data-transfer/transfer-files-from-pc-to-ipad.html>

Notice the facts:
a. The three kooks deny that what's clearly in the OP is in the OP
b. Their entire argument is based on brazenly denying what actually exists
c. Where it's the _experts_ who show that the iTunes abomination is a
clusterfuck so bad that even Apple dropped it (for all but for Windows).

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Jan 15, 2022, 8:24:00 PM1/15/22

to

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:56:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> Plug iPhone in to PC. Drag pictures from the phone to the PC. this
> definitely works to get pictures off the iPhone. It is not the best way,
> of course, but it absolutely works.

The 3 well-known Apple kooks are attempting to derail this technical thread
by claiming that the iTunes clusterfuck isn't the clusterfuck that it is.
*sans even one shred of data that refutes that iTunes _is_ a clusterfuck*

To those who are unfamiliar with the derailing tactics of these three kooks
a. nospam
b. Jolly Roger
c. Lewis

What Lewis is doing is implying functionality by talking about "pictures",
which nobody denies works one way as already shown in these screenshots.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg>

What the Apple kooks are ignoring is the topic here, which is both writing
_to_ the visible file system of the iOS device and to the VLC file space
(since we're talking about many huge movie files to be written to iOS).
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/qmkDxzo4bN0>

Don't be fooled by these Apple kooks.
a. Merely copying only simple photos only one way from iOS to the PC
c. Is not the problem set as it is clearly defined throughout this thread
d. Writing to the visible file system of iOS is the problem we're solving

> I have never copied pictures TO an iPhone via a cable, but that may well
> require iTunes since the phone is not a camera card. However, you can
> plug in a camera card vi a USB cable and load the pictures from it
> directly to the phone.

At least Lewis brings up the point which is that one-way copy, and one-way
copy of something as trivial as a picture in a specific directory that
nobody ever said wasn't visible to Windows - isn't at all the problem set.

> The way that most people do this, because it is far more convenient and
> automatic, is to sync their photos vi iTunes or Photos (Mac) over WiFi.

What the kook is telling us is what we already knew which is you can't do it
the way you do it with all other devices other than with Apple iOS devices.

The kook is also telling us this without the kook even realizing that it
actually works _perfectly_ when you connect the iOS device on USB to Ubuntu.

So it's _only_ on Windows that the iTunes clusterfuck is even needed.
And we already know, from the _experts_, why iTunes is a dangerous tool.
a. It will destroy your data
b. It's filled to the brim with bloatware
c. It's not tested by Apple (who dropped it for all other platforms already)

Three links backing up those statements of fact are already in the OP.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/qmkDxzo4bN0/m/4D-KWehkBAAJ>

If the Apple kooks wish to dispute _those_ three links, hundreds more will
prove the same point since it's _only_ the kooks who are saying that iTunes
is not a clusterfuck (even Apple _dropped_ iTunes for all but Windows!).

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 12:46:07 PM1/16/22

to

On 16 Jan 2022 16:31:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> For now, EOD.

Frank,

The question remains a valid question to ask of intelligent people.
*How do we get the already fantastic two-way file transfer to the entire*
*visible file system that we already have on Linux & Android... on Windows?*

The three Apple trolls have _never_ even tried Ubuntu with iOS.
They don't have a clue what _beauty_ there is in true two-way file transfer.
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg>

They've never even used Android file transfer with Windows, Frank.
They don't have a clue how _fantastic_ two-way file transfer should be.
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg>

They've never even hooked up an iOS device, Frank, to Windows sans iTunes!
All they've _ever_ done, Frank, is use the iTunes clusterfuck abomination.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg>

Even Paul's link said very clearly that iTunes, at its finest hour even,
is "barely rudimentary file transfer" Frank.
<https://www.easeus.com/iphone-data-transfer/transfer-files-from-pc-to-ipad.html>

The three Apple trolls want to make this about iTunes; but it's not.
*This is about how to get the Linux iFuse capability... but on Windows.*

If I knew how to do it, I wouldn't have asked for help in doing it Frank.
For you to call that a troll says more about you - and nothing about me.

True, the Apple trolls have infested this thread to derail the topic.
They _hate_ the iTunes clusterfuck cripples Windows two-way file xfer.

a. Lewis
b. Jolly Roger
c. nospam

That they are successful in derailing this topic is due to their skill.
But the question remains a valid question to ask of intelligent people.

How do we get the already fantastic two-way file transfer to the entire
visible file system that we already have with Linux & Android... on Windows?

Jerry

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 12:59:19 PM1/16/22

to

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:34:36 -0500, nospam wrote:

Stop trolling these newsgroups with your apple crap that doesn't work.
Either answer the questions or shut the fuck up if you can't.

That you think iTunes "makes things easy" just means you've never used
Ubuntu to transfer files between your iPhone and the desktop.

Ubuntu makes things easy.

iTunes does nothing of the sort.

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 2:01:08 PM1/16/22

to

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
> In message <srv0oa...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> In article <srtv7t$hfb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> >> <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Tell us how we can copy those huge many files over 18 inches of USB
> >>
> >> ah hah! that's your problem. well, one of your many problems.
> >>
> >> everyone (except you, obviously) knows that file copying works only up
> >> to 6 inches of usb because there isn't enough kernel pressure to send
> >> files any farther than that. it's basic physics. in some rare cases, it
> >> might work if the computer is above the ipad, allowing gravity to
> >> assist, but this has been known to be unreliable and not a solution.
>
> > All joking aside, can you please - once and for all - give *specific*
> > (i.e. not your usual dodges and diversions [1]) instructions on how to
> > copy pictures and videos from Windows to iPhone/iPad and vice versa,
> > *over a USB cable*, *without* using iTunes.
>
> Plug iPhone in to PC. Drag pictures from the phone to the PC. this
> definitely works to get pictures off the iPhone. It is not the best way,
> of course, but it absolutely works.

Thanks for the confirmation. So the - probably most common - scenario,
iPhone to Windows PC, is covered.

> I have never copied pictures TO an iPhone via a cable, but that may well
> require iTunes since the phone is not a camera card.

Hopefully others can confirm/deny whether or not this is indeed not
possible. Again, with details please. So if not, why not. And if
possible, how.

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 3:38:00 PM1/16/22

to

On 1/16/2022 11:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<snip>

> iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality,
> functionality which Android users are sorely missing out on.

OMG, while I use iTunes on my iPhones and iPad, since I have no choice,
it's a royal PITA for many tasks. I certainly don't miss iTunes on my
Android devices! I can't imagine any functionality that iTunes provides
that is not available on Android.

> That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable transfer
> seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's whingeing, at least
> about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(

It is indeed an annoyance, but it's not likely to ever be addressed, for
marketing and financial reasons But it's already possible on Jailbroken
iOS devices. Every Jailbreak app or tweak is designed to add
functionality that a sufficient number of iOS users want, and many of
these tweaks and apps are not free so are only done if there are enough
potential users to make the effort appear to be worthwhile.

nospam

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 3:53:34 PM1/16/22

to

In article <ss1vn6$e7s$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality,
> > functionality which Android users are sorely missing out on.
>
> OMG, while I use iTunes on my iPhones and iPad, since I have no choice,

there's very definitely a choice.

> it's a royal PITA for many tasks.

then you're doing something wrong. no surprise there.

> I certainly don't miss iTunes on my
> Android devices! I can't imagine any functionality that iTunes provides
> that is not available on Android.

that only means you're unaware of what itunes can do, and what's worse,
you refuse to learn what that is.

> > That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable transfer
> > seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's whingeing, at least
> > about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(
>
> It is indeed an annoyance, but it's not likely to ever be addressed, for
> marketing and financial reasons

false. apple has no control over what third parties do. some of them
have added what you claim does not exist.

> But it's already possible on Jailbroken
> iOS devices.

jailbreaking is not required.

> Every Jailbreak app or tweak is designed to add
> functionality that a sufficient number of iOS users want, and many of
> these tweaks and apps are not free so are only done if there are enough
> potential users to make the effort appear to be worthwhile.

nope. the tweaks exist because someone wanted to create it.

how popular it is is unknown.

jailbreaking itself is very niche and the popularity of the tweaks even
more so.

Lewis

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 4:00:05 PM1/16/22

to

In message <ss1tho...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Hopefully others can confirm/deny whether or not this is indeed not
> possible. Again, with details please. So if not, why not. And if
> possible, how.

Because your criteria is "I don't want to use the tool that does this"
and since I only use Windows when I am getting paid my hourly rate of
$76/hr, I do not use Windows for my personal use.

> IIRC, we had this scenario - my Windows laptop to daughter's iPhone -
> a long time ago and we could not get it to work (via USB cable).

I have no idea what a "long time ago" means to you, but if it included
your refusal to use software capable of doing the task then the fail
lies not with the phone or the computer, but with you.

> Because we could not use other options (too expensive mobile data to
> download iTunes and only USB memory sticks with standard USB-A
> connector) and it was only for a few pictures, we just used e-mail
> (IIRC). (That) Problem solved.

the iTunes download is about 100MB. If you are using hardware with a
computer, downloading the software to use that hardware is not
unreasonable. Do you also ask "How do I print without using the printer
drivers" or "how do I scan photos without scanner software".

100MB is not at all excessive for the software needed to use hardware
with your computer.

> Well, it's actually our resident troll's requirement, but I agree with
> what you're saying. iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality,
> functionality which Android users are sorely missing out on.

Whosoever's requirement it is, it is idiotic.

> That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable transfer
> seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's whingeing, at least
> about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(

Nothing stops the nymshitting troll toddler.

--
Try not to Todd this up.

sms

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 4:03:21 PM1/16/22

to

On 1/16/2022 11:23 AM, sticks wrote:

<snip>

> I am intending to try out the earlier suggested method of using the
> files folder, as I don't think it is as easy as suggested. It seems to
> involve the Icloud, which obviously is associated with Itunes. I saved
> the post suggesting how to do it and will check it out later.

There is one clever trick that people have used for file transfer into
iOS devices, using Nikon NEF raw format. You ZIP up the files that you
want to transfer, rename the .ZIP file to .NEF, import the .NEF file,
rename it on the iOS device to a .ZIP file, then unzip it.

You're tricking iOS into believing that you're transferring in a photo,
which is supported, when in fact you're transferring in a ZIP file.

I think that the reason that Apple make all this so difficult is for
protection against malware being transferred into the iOS device.

nospam

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 4:10:05 PM1/16/22

to

In article <ss216n$pgp$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> There is one clever trick that people have used for file transfer into
> iOS devices, using Nikon NEF raw format. You ZIP up the files that you
> want to transfer, rename the .ZIP file to .NEF, import the .NEF file,
> rename it on the iOS device to a .ZIP file, then unzip it.

that's not particularly clever, very convoluted and serves no useful
purpose.

> You're tricking iOS into believing that you're transferring in a photo,
> which is supported, when in fact you're transferring in a ZIP file.

then what? you conveniently left out that part.

> I think that the reason that Apple make all this so difficult is for
> protection against malware being transferred into the iOS device.

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 4:30:58 PM1/16/22

to

Most of us have filtered out trolls on both sides of the aisle
(Andy/Arlen/Harry) and Jolly Roger, Lewis, noSpam, Rod Speed, etc..

Their kind of behavior is why Usenet has dwindled in popularity to close
to zero, while moderated Reddit groups have increased in popularity,
despite the annoying advertising. Behavior like that of Andy/Arlen/Harry
or Jolly Roger, Lewis, noSpam, Rod Speed, would never be tolerated on
Reddit where you're expected to be helpful and courteous even when
disagreeing.

Rudolph Rhein

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 4:36:15 PM1/16/22

to

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>> I'd like to know the answer too.
>
> You're trolling as well - as you always do.

YOU are the troll.
You haven't made even one on topic response yet.

Why don't you STFU if all you want to do is troll this newsgroup.
Answer the question or STFU.

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:05:27 PM1/16/22

to

In article <ss2569...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > > > All joking aside, can you please - once and for all - give
> > > > > *specific*
> > > > > (i.e. not your usual dodges and diversions [1]) instructions on how to
> > > > > copy pictures and videos from Windows to iPhone/iPad and vice versa,
> > > > > *over a USB cable*, *without* using iTunes.
> > >
> > > [Usual dodging and diverting deleted. Exactly *which* part of "(i.e. not
> > > your usual dodges and diversions [1])" didn't you understand!? You
> > > *really* can't help yourself, can you!?]
> >
> > i gave you a very complete answer on how to copy content, both with and
> > without itunes.
>
> No, you didn't. You dodged and diverted as usual.

yes i did. i gave a complete answer, for both with and without itunes
and some of the differences between them.

> Clue-by-four: See your above quote: "*over a USB cable*".

what makes you think a usb cable is not involved?

both usb and wifi will work. if you prefer a usb cable, by all means
use a usb cable. some third party apps may support one and not the
other, but that's a design decision the app developer made, not apple.
choose another app, if needed.

>
> > > > > [1] You've claimed over and over that it's possible, easy, trivial,
> > > > > <whatever>, but (AFAIK) have never been specific. If you - think - you
> > > > > have been specific, then point to that/such_a post by Message-ID (and
> > > > > Subject/Newsgroups/Date).
> > > >
> > > > not only have i claimed it but i've gone into detail, which 'arlen'
> > > > promptly rejects with one of his infamous rants.
> > >
> > > Never mind AH, *I* asked you a question and despite me asking for a
> > > specific reference (Message-ID, et al), you - once more didn't deliver.
> >
> > i'm not going to search for specific messages. instead, i gave you a
> > very thorough answer, repeating what i have said in the past.
>
> Nope you didn't give an answer to the question *as asked*. You
> 'answered' a 'question' which was *not* asked. In the real world, that's
> called dodging/diverting.

nope. i answered the question, as have others.

you might not understand the answers given, but that's on you.

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:22:10 PM1/16/22

to

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
> In message <ss1tho...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Hopefully others can confirm/deny whether or not this is indeed not
> > possible. Again, with details please. So if not, why not. And if
> > possible, how.
>
> Because your criteria is "I don't want to use the tool that does this"

Sigh! As I've clearly said, it's *not* my criteria, it's the trolls'.

> and since I only use Windows when I am getting paid my hourly rate of
> $76/hr, I do not use Windows for my personal use.
>
> > IIRC, we had this scenario - my Windows laptop to daughter's iPhone -
> > a long time ago and we could not get it to work (via USB cable).
>
> I have no idea what a "long time ago" means to you, but if it included
> your refusal to use software capable of doing the task then the fail
> lies not with the phone or the computer, but with you.
>
> > Because we could not use other options (too expensive mobile data to
> > download iTunes and only USB memory sticks with standard USB-A
> > connector) and it was only for a few pictures, we just used e-mail
> > (IIRC). (That) Problem solved.
>
> the iTunes download is about 100MB. If you are using hardware with a
> computer, downloading the software to use that hardware is not
> unreasonable. Do you also ask "How do I print without using the printer
> drivers" or "how do I scan photos without scanner software".
>
> 100MB is not at all excessive for the software needed to use hardware
> with your computer.

Why the aggro instead of trying to read for comprehension? I said the
download was not an option, because the (needed) mobile data was too
expensive. And the chosen option - email - was OK. "(That) Problem
solved."

> > Well, it's actually our resident troll's requirement, but I agree with
> > what you're saying. iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality,
> > functionality which Android users are sorely missing out on.
>
> Whosoever's requirement it is, it is idiotic.

Yes, as a requirement, it's silly, because it's known to not work.

But as an expectation, it's not idiotic, because Android (and loads of
other devices) has this two-way PTP/MTP over USB-cable functionality.

Note again: I'm not complaining and I don't give a toss either way.
It's just a difference. OTOH for example, Android+Windows can't do
peer-to-peer over Wi-Fi out-of-the-box (but Windows 10/11 might have
some functionality, I don't know).

> > That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable transfer
> > seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's whingeing, at least
> > about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(
>
> Nothing stops the nymshitting troll toddler.

True, but being able to give a definite slap on the wrist once in a
while would be nice.

Anyway, I think we're done.

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:39:09 PM1/16/22

to

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ss260v...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable transfer
> > > > seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's whingeing, at least
> > > > about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(
> > >
> > > it's possible, it's just a *lot* more effort.
> >
> > And an *example* - *with* detailed information - of at least *one*
> > such method, is!?
>
> do you actually need step by step instructions on how to mount shares
> and copy files with windows? did i overestimate your abilities?

Mount shares over an *USB cable*!? Hmmmm! did i overestimate your

abilities?

> as i said before, and more than once, there are third party apps that
> support whatever protocol you prefer, including webdav, https, ftp,
> sftp and smb. connect to the phone, which may vary depending on the
> chosen protocol, then copy files as you normally would. there is even a
> third party implementation of airdrop, although currently windows is a
> work in progress.

Hmmm!? No *USB cable* in sight!

> also, and as i said, the iphone shows up as a standard digital camera,
> so for photos, any software that works with digital cameras will work.

In *one* direction, iPhone to Windows computer.

> lightroom is one of the more popular choices, but windows explorer will
> also work, as will many other apps.

But *not* Windows to iPhone over *USB cable*.

I've lost count of how many tries you had at this. Now - just for once
- try to answer the *actual* question. Clue-by-four: It involves an USB
cable.

Until then, it's EOD.

Jolly Roger

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:42:40 PM1/16/22

to

On 2022-01-16, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/2022 11:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality, functionality which
>> Android users are sorely missing out on.
>
> OMG

ERRMEGHERD!!1! 🤪

> while I use iTunes on my iPhones and iPad, since I have no choice

Bullshit. All you are doing here is showing you don't even use iPhones.
There are only two "iTunes" apps iPhones and iPads:
* iTunesU - for iTunes University learning content iTunes Store - for
* purchasing/renting music, movies, and TV shows
And there are certainly other apps you can purchase music from.

You just self-owned - hilarious. 🤣

> it's a royal PITA for many tasks

You don't even use it.

> I certainly don't miss iTunes on my Android devices! I can't imagine
> any functionality that iTunes provides that is not available on
> Android.

Transferring any file into any app on your iOS device with just a couple
clicks, for one.

>> That said, it's a pity that a Windows to iPhone via USB cable
>> transfer seems not possible. If it was, it might shut up AH's
>> whingeing, at least about this issue! :-) c.q. :-(
>
> It is indeed an annoyance

It is actually quite easy to do, and the fact that you dip shit trolls
claim otherwise is pretty funny to those of us who do it regularly - it
is in fact easy to do, and takes literally just a couple clicks.

Jolly Roger

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:43:16 PM1/16/22

to

On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

It's good you can at least admit that.

Jolly Roger

unread,

Jan 16, 2022, 5:44:42 PM1/16/22

to

On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> In message <ss1tho...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hopefully others can confirm/deny whether or not this is indeed
>> > not possible. Again, with details please. So if not, why not. And
>> > if possible, how.
>>
>> Because your criteria is "I don't want to use the tool that does
>> this"
>
> Sigh! As I've clearly said, it's *not* my criteria, it's the
> trolls'.

"I'm not trolling, guys - I'm just totally on the troll's side on this
one thing. See? I'm totally innocent! *wink* *wink*..."

> Anyway, I think we're done.

Promise?

Frank Slootweg

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Jan 16, 2022, 5:48:38 PM1/16/22

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nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ss2569...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > > > All joking aside, can you please - once and for all - give
> > > > > > *specific*
> > > > > > (i.e. not your usual dodges and diversions [1]) instructions on how to
> > > > > > copy pictures and videos from Windows to iPhone/iPad and vice versa,
> > > > > > *over a USB cable*, *without* using iTunes.
> > > >
> > > > [Usual dodging and diverting deleted. Exactly *which* part of "(i.e. not
> > > > your usual dodges and diversions [1])" didn't you understand!? You
> > > > *really* can't help yourself, can you!?]
> > >
> > > i gave you a very complete answer on how to copy content, both with and
> > > without itunes.
> >
> > No, you didn't. You dodged and diverted as usual.
>
> yes i did. i gave a complete answer, for both with and without itunes
> and some of the differences between them.

FSVSVO "complete". Read on.

> > Clue-by-four: See your above quote: "*over a USB cable*".
>
> what makes you think a usb cable is not involved?
>
> both usb and wifi will work. if you prefer a usb cable, by all means
> use a usb cable. some third party apps may support one and not the
> other, but that's a design decision the app developer made, not apple.
> choose another app, if needed.

So for the USB cable case, a third party app is required (instead of
iTunes). Why didn't you say so?

You *do* realize that for Android there's no need for an extra app,
don't you!? So you're playing right into his hands. Pity.

[...]

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 5:52:45 PM1/16/22

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On 2022-01-16, RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think that the reason that Apple make all this so difficult is for
>> protection against malware being transferred into the iOS device.
>
> It's not "so difficult" to do with iTunes.
> It's impossible to do with iTunes.

Arlen creates yet another nym, ho hum...

Meanwhile, what you claim is supposedly impossible can be done quite
easily with just a couple clicks.

> Those who lie when they say it's possible had better show ironclad proof.
> Pictures or it didn't happen.

Okay, here's a screenshot showing what Arlen claims is "iMpOSsIbLe":
<https://i.imgur.com/oIZFyYi.png>

> You'll never see those picture proofs.

Arlen will never admit he and his suck buddy trolls are completely full
of shit.

> Because it's impossible to do with iTunes.

Nope. : D

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 5:54:01 PM1/16/22

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On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not trolling
>>
>> The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.
>
> The jerk only snips and doesn't read/comprehend anything.

That's all Arlen does, yes. And you and sms are here defending him. : )

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 5:56:49 PM1/16/22

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On 2022-01-16, Rudolph Rhein <Rudolp...@nospam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'd like to know the answer too.
>>
>> You're trolling as well - as you always do.
>
> YOU are the troll.

Arlen creates yet another nym... ho hum. Meanwhile he uses his slew of
nyms to call other people "the real trolls" - like all bullies, he loves
to claim he's really the one being bullied here. ; )

> Answer the question or STFU.

Already answered, as you well know, Arlen. ; ) While you complain that
the simplest thing like transferring files to any app on an iOS device
is "iMpOsSiBlE!!1!", I've easily transferred several files to several
apps with just a few clicks. : ) And you HATE the fact that it's so easy
to do!

Frank Slootweg

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Jan 16, 2022, 6:05:26 PM1/16/22

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Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'm not trolling
> >>
> >> The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.
> >
> > The jerk only snips and doesn't read/comprehend anything.
>
> That's all Arlen does, yes. And you and sms are here defending him. : )

FSVLANVO "defending".

No wonder you - again - 'conveniently' snipped the rest of my post.

Frank Slootweg

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nospam

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Jan 16, 2022, 7:34:38 PM1/16/22

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In article <ss2b6g$575$1...@dont-email.me>, Dick_Holder

<dick_...@man.invalid> wrote:

> Using Windows Explorer to transfer photos from an iPhone to the Windows
> PC works well, movies , not so much. The movies transfer over, but the
> movies will now have the creation date of when transferred, not when taken.

that's a long-standing problem with windows, where copying a file has
the create date of when the copy was made rather than when the original
was created. it causes all sorts of problems, particularly with backup
apps.

> So my Halloween movies are mixed in with movies from December, because
> that's when I finally transferred them.
>
> Pictures work fine.

explorer is special casing photos.

nospam

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Jan 16, 2022, 7:34:39 PM1/16/22

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In article <ss2cdn...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > >
> > > On Android, full backup/restore - and I do *not* mean just Play Store
> > > apps, calls, messages, photos, videos and music (Duh!) -, but *all* apps
> > > and *all* data and especially *all* settings is very, very hard,
> > > (closely) bordering to impossible.
> >
> > It's good you can at least admit that.
>
> There's nothing to 'admit'. It's just a fact. Nothing is perfect and
> Android is anything but perfect. News at eleven.
>
> That's the 'funny' thing, most Android and Windows users have no
> problem acknowledging the limitations of, problems in, etc. their OSs,
> devices, etc..

mac and ios users also acknowledge the limitations and problems.

nothing is perfect.

> OTOH, as again shown in this very thread, many (most?) Apple users
> *do* have a problem doing the same for their products. Why would that
> be?

nope. the problem are those who baselessly claim that mac and ios can't
do various things that are not only very possible, but often easier
than on other platforms.

sometimes it's just not knowing how and blindly assuming it can't be
done, but most of the time, it's trolling.

no device can do everything. choose the best tool for the given task.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 10:43:18 PM1/16/22

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On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> What I *am* doing is asking for proof to debunk the troll's 'problem
> set' (which I saw, because it was quoted by nospam).

He has no "problem". He could easily transfer files to any app on his
Apple devices with a couple clicks of the mouse, but refuses to even
acknowledge that it is even possible, because: troll.

>>> Anyway, I think we're done.
>>
>> Promise?
>
> I don't know. Are you Lewis?

No, and I'm not sure why you think he has anything to do with a
discussion between the two of us. Strange. I guess we aren't actually
done then?

Lewis

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Jan 16, 2022, 10:44:31 PM1/16/22

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In message <ss29ak...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> In message <ss1tho...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> > Hopefully others can confirm/deny whether or not this is indeed not
>> > possible. Again, with details please. So if not, why not. And if
>> > possible, how.
>>
>> Because your criteria is "I don't want to use the tool that does this"

> Sigh! As I've clearly said, it's *not* my criteria, it's the trolls'.

In the message I relied to, you stated "without itunes". I do not read
Arlen's posts.

> Why the aggro instead of trying to read for comprehension? I said the
> download was not an option, because the (needed) mobile data was too
> expensive. And the chosen option - email - was OK. "(That) Problem
> solved."

And your email magically did not use mobile data?

The point is, you install the needed software ont he machine. If you
can't download 100MB onto your computer then MANY things are not going to
work, including email.

> But as an expectation, it's not idiotic, because Android (and loads of
> other devices) has this two-way PTP/MTP over USB-cable functionality.

Some devices do, many devices do not. If that is an important feature
for some inexplicable reason, then buy a device that supports it. The
lack of such a feature is not a lacking on the iPhone, especially not
when the iPhone does a MUCH better job of syncing, cataloging, and
sharing photos without giving every photo to Google.

> True, but being able to give a definite slap on the wrist once in a
> while would be nice.

It doesn't matter, he just starts calling people names as soon as he is
proved wrong and continues to repeat his lies. It is not worth engaging
with him at all.

--
"...and Digby considered how much he liked salt..."

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 10:49:47 PM1/16/22

to

On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> > sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 1/16/2022 11:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >>
>> >> > iTunes indeed offers a lot of functionality, functionality which
>> >> > Android users are sorely missing out on.
>> >>
>> >> OMG, while I use iTunes on my iPhones and iPad, since I have no
>> >> choice, it's a royal PITA for many tasks. I certainly don't miss
>> >> iTunes on my Android devices! I can't imagine any functionality
>> >> that iTunes provides that is not available on Android.
>> >
>> > Full and convenient backup/restore. At least that's what they
>> > tell us.
>> >
>> > On Android, full backup/restore - and I do *not* mean just Play
>> > Store apps, calls, messages, photos, videos and music (Duh!) -,
>> > but *all* apps and *all* data and especially *all* settings is
>> > very, very hard, (closely) bordering to impossible.
>>
>> It's good you can at least admit that.
>
> There's nothing to 'admit'.

Oh there is in these newsgroups, where Arlen consistently refuses to
admit any factual detail about Apple products. In this very thread, he
refuses to admit that you can transfer files to any app on an Apple
mobile device with just a couple clicks, for instance.

> That's the 'funny' thing, most Android and Windows users have no
> problem acknowledging the limitations of, problems in, etc. their
> OSs, devices, etc..
>
> OTOH, as again shown in this very thread, many (most?) Apple users
> *do* have a problem doing the same for their products. Why would
> that be?

You're either being disingenuous or flat-out lying. Most Mac/iOS users
have no such problems. But when trolls come to the Apple news groups
spouting complete lies and fabrications, it's only natural for people to
object. And that's not a "problem" on their end - just a natural
reaction to disinformation and lies.

In this very thread, trolls have claimed transferring files to Apple
mobile devices from a Windows computer is "impossible", when the fact is
it is easily done with a couple clicks.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 16, 2022, 10:51:09 PM1/16/22

to

On 2022-01-16, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>

> So for the USB cable case, a third party app is required (instead of
> iTunes).

Incorrect. iTUnes will transfer files both ways over a USB cable, and
all it takes is a couple clicks to do so.