Note pad

[Dieter Britz]

What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,
and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one
that is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.

--
Dieter Britz

[Carlos E.R.]

I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[philo]

My phone came with "Notes"

Full name is Super Simple Notes

About as simple and straight forward as you can get


I also love Quick Memo

Though it can be used simply as a text note pad,
one can also draw with your finger.

I like doodling in my spare time

Even a few friends think I'm creating art.

[Arlen Holder]

Happy New Year!

I think this is a tough question, where I, myself, have a _huge_ folder of
notepad like apps, all ready to be tested. Actually, I have _multiple_ huge
folders of them, there are that many out there (although I link them with
my shopping lists, which may or may not be the same thing to others).

I just counted them, where I have about 50 of those notepad-like appso
o <https://i.postimg.cc/htxGtgZp/notepad01.jpg>

I'd literally be hard pressed to pick one that I like.
o Where those on the left in that image I simply hate less than most.

Maybe sometime this year I will try to add the immense value of testing
them all and reporting on which were best for what purpose, but if I had
to try to help the OP by taking a quick stab at the notepad like editors
I hate least, I think I'd put "Jota" perhaps, & "SNotepad", & "JustNotes" &
"no-go-github.io" & "MyNotes" & "SimpleMobileTools Notes", etc., near the
top.

I only chose them just now 'cuz they're the ones I have in my screenshot at
left so I must have picked them long ago for a reason (where I rename the
notepad apps to be named what they "do" for me, since most of them are
named "notes" so you can't tell the difference by name).

But that's really a cop out on the question as it matters a _lot_ what the
OP wants to do with the note taking app, particularly 'cuz some are
checklists, others are a single file, many don't allow you to choose where
the file goes, many have too many buttons, some, like Jota, allow you to
define which buttons you see, others like "vi" are just too damn
complicated for a cellphone, while others keep entire directories of files,
but those directories are all in a proprietary format, etc.

Me?
a. I want it to take verbal dictation (because I have huge fingers)
b. Once tapped, the app must autostart & autosave (to reduce button clicks)
c. It should take manual handwriting (most already should do that)
d. It must allow me to set _where_ it will autosave the files
e. It should automatically create the file name (but allow me to set it)
f. It should have a setting allowing either edit the same or a new file
g. Obviously it's useless unless it saves to a standard TXT EOF format
h. It would be nice to have a checklist mode (there are lots of list apps)

In summary, there are so many note-pad-like apps that it's a big job to
pick the best one as they all do the same thing in different ways.

Someday I'll be able to point users to the canonical test of all the
notepad like Android apps, but for now, even I don't have a favorite
(which is rare for me as I'm damn good at software testing).

Sorry this isn't as definitive as it could have been.
o Hope it's still useful

(If someone paid me to test 'em, you'd have best test you've ever seen in
your life, by the way - where I should probably start a web page for that.)
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others make good choices.

[Davidm]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 14:40:27 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

+1

[VanguardLH]

Your smartphone (unidentified) didn't come with a text app, like
QuickMemo+ (that came with my LG V20 a long time ago). Did you check
the app drawer to see if you already have a text app?

There are note apps that will sync across devices, but your description
excluded such a feature. Without cloud sync, you'll have to save the
text file to some common storage (e.g., SD card) that you can access via
Bluetooth, wifi, or USB cable to transfer to elsewhere if you want the
text file somewhere other than the smartphone where you created it (if
even to retain a copy should your phone die, get damaged, lost, stolen,
or burned up).

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 09:50:06 -0600, philo wrote:

> My phone came with "Notes"
> Full name is Super Simple Notes

Hi philo,

Happy New Year!

Thanks for being purposefully helpful for the OP where I also have an
interest myself in finding the best notepad-like apps for Android.

The classic problem of many Android apps having the same name, and even
worse, the same name for the icon, shows up in spades for notepad apps.

Searching on the Google Play scraper Aurora Store for "Simple Notes" with
the default filter of (a) free, (b) ad free, (c) GSF free, and as always
(d) Google free, I find:
o Simple Notes To-do list <com.simplemobiletools.notes>
o Simple Notepad <org.mightyfrog.android.simplenotepad

If I allow GSF based apps, this adds
o Simplenote <com.automattic.simplenote> [sic]
o Simple Notes <com.simpleappsdevelopment.notes>

If I allow ads, more come to the fore:
o Simple Notes <com.angkorworld.memo>
o Simple Notes Widget <ru.igarin.notes>
o Super Simple Notes <com.bitwize10.supersimplenotes>
o Simple Notes <net.softandroid.simplenotes2>
o Simple Notes Offline Notepad <com.notes.keepnotes>
etc.

> About as simple and straight forward as you can get

Out of _that_ list, the _simplest_, I would think, is:
o Simple Notes, by Simple Mobile Tools
<https://www.simplemobiletools.com/notes/>
<https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/Simple-Notes>

> I also love Quick Memo

You bring up a good point that a "search" for a good note taking tool has a
lot of basic keywords, such as "memo" and "notes" and "editor" and "text"
and "list", etc.

Also note that there are multiple "Quick Memo" apps on Google Play where,
as I said above, this is one case where almost all the apps have almost the
same name, and even worse, almost the same icon name once installed.

> Though it can be used simply as a text note pad,
> one can also draw with your finger.
> I like doodling in my spare time
> Even a few friends think I'm creating art.

Running the obligatory Google Play search via the Aurora Store set to the
default filters of (a) free, (b) ad free, (c) GSF free, and as always
(d) Google free, I find only two apps on Google Play of a similar name:
o quickmemo+ <com.becool.notepad>
o Quick Memo <com.trisnjolly.quickmemo>

Loosening the Google Play filters to allow crapware comes up with more:
o Quick Memo <com.jsoh.drawmemo>
o Quick Memo <jp.co.doublecircle.memo.quick>
o Quick Memo ColorNote <com.socialnmobile.dictapps.notepad...>
o Quick Memo Notes <com.abhi.newmemo>
etc.

As I said prior, I hope to run a comprehensive Android note-taking app
review, to choose the best, where the best will almost always (if not
always) be FOSS software which is (a) free, (b) ad free, (c) most likely
GSF free, and (d) almost certainly Google free.

But that's for a later date, so I take special interest in what the OP ends
up choosing for his best freeware simple note taking app.
--
Posted to add value so that every thread serves as a permanent reference.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 10:12:50 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> Your smartphone (unidentified) didn't come with a text app, like
> QuickMemo+ (that came with my LG V20 a long time ago). Did you check
> the app drawer to see if you already have a text app?

Hi Vanguard,

The OP says he wants the simplest text app he can find.
o Just any old app won't work for that requirement, IMHO.

(Trust me, I've tested a lot of 'em, and there are still more to test!)

> There are note apps that will sync across devices, but your description
> excluded such a feature.

The OP seems to want "simple".
o That's why I suggested Simple Mobile Tools' app, among other simple ones.

If the OP wants _both_ simple & freedom to sync where he wants, I'd suggest
a free open source app with no ads and which is completely Google free...

Something like Joplin, for example, is both FOSS & has sync for example:
o Joplin <https://joplinapp.org/>

Although I will repeat that there are so many note taking apps that we
really must start with a well detailed requirements list to be of any use
to the OP (e.g., must it save to a text format to any desired location?).

> Without cloud sync, you'll have to save the
> text file to some common storage (e.g., SD card) that you can access via
> Bluetooth, wifi, or USB cable to transfer to elsewhere if you want the
> text file somewhere other than the smartphone where you created it (if
> even to retain a copy should your phone die, get damaged, lost, stolen,
> or burned up).

Transferring any file to/from Android to/from any desktop is trivial, e.g.,
o NitroShare <https://github.com/nitroshare>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.nitroshare.android>

In summary, the OP only asked for "simple" but to help him better, more
requirements must be specified, such as:
a. Sync
b. Save as text
c. Save to any given location
etc.
--
Posted to help others, as always, out of the goodness in my heart.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:11:47 +0000, Davidm wrote:

>>I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.
> +1

If you want "sync", why not FOSS software like, oh, offhand, say, Joplin?
o <https://joplinapp.org/>
--
Posted, as always, to add useful value to any discussion on Usenet.

[philo]

I guess I was lucky in that both the apps I mentioned just came with my
phone.

I did try some others with more features only to realize I did not need
anything "fancier."


Here is a cartoon character I scribbled this morning



https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135365477_4179401488753855_3094668575073065359_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4D_gcsKnLpIAX-8uCIt&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=626be8119882ac24e6f49a911ace1410&oe=6014DAA4

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 10:56:58 -0600, philo wrote:

> Here is a cartoon character I scribbled this morning

Hi philo

That's quite a professional nice clean looking hand/face doodle!
o Kudos to your for a job well done using a tool that helps you do it.

The problem with trying to find a "simple" note tool for the OP
o Is that there are so many of them out there, it's not funny

For example:
o SimpleMemo, by Skysense Co., Ltd.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.skysense.android.simplememo>

Even with the keywords you provided, I'm still trying to find _which_
o quick memo

For example, I searched but over 300 apps came up in just this one search:
o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=quick%20memo&c=apps>

Those that are named "quick memo" seem to be among these:
o quick memo, by fmouriTools, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.fmouri.memo>
o Quick Memo, by overman
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.makestorming.quicknote>
o Quick Memo, by KayJee StudioLifestyle, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kayjee.quickmemo>
o QuickMemo, by James AlfeiProductivity, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alfei.quickmemo>
o Quick Memo, by jollyTris
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.trisnjolly.quickmemo>
o Quick Memo, by js OhTools, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jsoh.drawmemo>
o Quick Memo, by Blacksmith DoubleCircleProductivity, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.doublecircle.memo.quick>
o QuickMemo+, by Andreas Kempe
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.byte_artist.quickmemoplus>
o Ultra quick memo, by Lightweight Apps, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gj.memo>
etc.

Which "Quick Memo" of the above is the one you have on your device?
--
Posted, as always, to ensure the most accurate technical information is provided.

[philo]

It appears the app I use is not available for download. It seems to be
specific to my LG phone


It is called QuickMemo+ (version 8.0.26)

Although I could find QuickMemo+ on a Google search for apps, it is not
the one I have on my phone.



I'm amazed at how good it works.

Though I dabble a bit with art from time to time,I never thought I'd
ever be able to create cartoon characters.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 11:49:03 -0600, philo wrote:

> I could find QuickMemo+ on a Google search for apps,
> it is not the one I have on my phone.

Hi philo,

That's _exactly_ what I was worried about, although the app still "could" be on
Google Play if we knew the unique app name we could search by that unique name.

Thanks for looking though, as that's the problem with Android apps
o There are so many with the same name which is why I use unique names

A bunch of "app managers" will tell you the unique name, by the way:
o How do you find the unique app package real name on your Android device?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/4TcwyAcSPqM>

Once we have the unique name, a search can be more fruitful.
o Freeware to list all apps to editable text file of URLs, automatic backup of all versions, & restore
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vKeIRGMVMu8/m/JXdhHT0FAQAJ>

In addition, for your own use, you can _save_ the APK to use elsewhere
o Android Free, GSF free, ad free APK app backup & restore programs for already installed apps (including system apps)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/-Y97dk5-uI0/m/FwXV-zpTBwAJ>

With those two hints, two nice things are enabled:
1. Others can find the same app you have by searching on its unique APK appname,
2. You can re-use that system-installed app on another device yourself.

See also:
o What method you use to backup & share your installed apps on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/FsRRoQbdKeo/m/UxMPdDI3BwAJ>

o What free non-root Android backup & restore solution do you recommend for general use?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/jZ8IxxgXFys/m/_Jh-JgoJAwAJ>

o Tutorial: How to back up non-root Android apps and their data over Wi-Fi using Helium freeware on Windows
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ZUEJUrPrEog/m/YZo2Sx3jAgAJ>
--
Posted, as always, out of the goodness of my heart, to help all others.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 01/01/2021 17.37, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:11:47 +0000, Davidm wrote:
>
>>> I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.
>> +1
>
> If you want "sync", why not FOSS software like, oh, offhand, say, Joplin?
> o <https://joplinapp.org/>
>

«The notes can be synchronised with various cloud services including
Nextcloud, Dropbox, OneDrive, WebDAV or the file system (for example
with a network directory). When synchronising the notes, notebooks, tags
and other metadata are saved to plain text files which can be easily
inspected, backed up and moved around.»


Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
your own.

It is not clear to me whether I can write the notes on anyone of my
devices and see the changes instantly in any other device, and continue
editing in any one.


The keyword for "keep" is "trivial".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:55:06 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
> your own.

Hi Carlos,

Happy New Year!

I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).

I have nothing against Google Keep other than it being a Google product
o Which I am on record, as you're aware, of shunning for privacy reasons

For example:
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk>

Hence, I freely & openly admit I don't use _any_ Google apps unless a gun
is pointed to my head (e.g., I use Google Voice, but only because I don't
know of anything else that gives me the free phone calls & email
transcriptions).

This means I'm pretty clueless when it comes to what "Keep" does, in order
to find a better non-Google replacement for whatever it is you like about
it.

But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
"Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".

I mean, for example, don't you have to log into Google for Keep to do what
it is you want it to do? (That's "sometype of contract", just as OneDrive
is "sometype of contract" and just as DropBox is "sometype of contract",
are they not?)

They _all_ require, at the very least, an account to log into, don't they?
o Why would a "Google Account" be different to you than any other account?

What's the "magic" in a Google Account for Keep that wouldn't be in a
DropBox account for, oh, say, Joplin? What's the advantage of a Google
Account that wouldn't be the same for a Microsoft OneDrive account?

> It is not clear to me whether I can write the notes on anyone of my
> devices and see the changes instantly in any other device, and continue
> editing in any one.

Well, I'm not wedded to Joplin, but I'm certainly on the record for
assuming that anyone using Google apps is usually not using their brain
properly (in my humblest of opinions).

It's not just Google by the way that lulls people into turning their brains
off so they can suck up all their personal data and resell it to others.

I get it that _all_ the big MARKETING orgs make it easy for folks to turn
their brains off so the big MARKETING orgs can suck up their data and then
sell it to others... so I'm not at all arguing that Google doesn't make it
easy.

I'm just asking _what_ is in Keep that would keep you using it if something
better existed that didn't have the flaws that an app like Keep likely has?

You mentioned "sync" and someone patted you on the back for that, where I
noted if all you want is "sync", then that's not hard to come by (and yes,
trivially so, e.g., I can sync any file I want with Android, if I want to,
simply by using some sort of freeware file sync program, can't I?).

I'm not sure how important that double-editing-at-the-same-time "feature"
is, as you only have one set of hands, but let's assume that's a critical
feature. How does not saving the file to your own SMBv3 USB stick on your
own SOHO router not accomplish the same thing (and yes, trivially so)?

For that matter, how does saving to _any_ cloud account (e.g., DropBox or
OneDrive) not accomplish the same thing? Is the _only_ difference that
Google does an "autosave" for Keep files?

In summary, I'm absolutely sure Keep makes it simple for folks to give
Google all their private data (of that I have absolutely no doubt); but my
question is what is in Keep that we can better replace with something else,
simply by putting our brains in gear to select a better app that doesn't
have the privacy flaws that I assume (a priori) that Keep likely has?

What I'm looking for is a solution that is _both_ intelligent & trivial.

> The keyword for "keep" is "trivial".

I have absolutely no doubt _all_ the big MARKETING orgs make it trivial for
users to put all their private deeply personal data on their cloud (so that
they can monopolize that data in some fashion, which we all know is the
game being played here).

I simply feel there is an intelligent way to circumvent those MARKETING
plans.

The keyword, for me, is intelligent where I feel it's possible to gain both
"trivial" and "privacy" simply by being intelligent about it.

In summary, I'm confused what Keep does that other free apps don't already
do that also keeps our private data off of someone else's cloud server.
o List of one-to-one replacement freeware for each of the current score of Android Google apps
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/IPorNMcyP3g>
--
Posted to find both trivial & intelligent ways to keep our data private.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 01/01/2021 21.43, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:55:06 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
>> your own.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
> have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).

I'm aware.

> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".

Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.
To use keep, if it is not installed already, it is just tap to install
the app, add the icon to the "desktop", done. Just tap to use and write.
It is really trivial to use.

People often also use gmail via web browser on the computer, which has a
menu for more apps, so click there on keep and get the same notes as you
have on the phones.

With any other cloud provider I first have to actually contract them,
perhaps pay them, and actually write configuration on the apps.

> I mean, for example, don't you have to log into Google for Keep to do what
> it is you want it to do? (That's "sometype of contract", just as OneDrive
> is "sometype of contract" and just as DropBox is "sometype of contract",
> are they not?)

The phone is perpetually logged into Google, since day one. It is so
transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
password.

This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
the same phone since 2018).


...

> You mentioned "sync" and someone patted you on the back for that, where I
> noted if all you want is "sync", then that's not hard to come by (and yes,
> trivially so, e.g., I can sync any file I want with Android, if I want to,
> simply by using some sort of freeware file sync program, can't I?).

That is far from "trivial".

>
> I'm not sure how important that double-editing-at-the-same-time "feature"
> is, as you only have one set of hands, but let's assume that's a critical
> feature. How does not saving the file to your own SMBv3 USB stick on your
> own SOHO router not accomplish the same thing (and yes, trivially so)?

I know several people with phones that would be completely baffled by
that idea and not know how to do it. Even if I write detailed
instructions step by step. I tried.

And it would not sync out of home.

Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.

Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.

This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.


Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.

If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
would have to be a fully EU-one.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[philo]

I was still looking and it seems like it's on my LG-6 and maybe no where
else.
I still have my old LG-4 and there is no sign of it there or ability to
install it.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 17:44:40 -0600, philo wrote:

> I was still looking and it seems like it's on my LG-6 and maybe no where
> else.

Hi philo,

If it's on your phone, then you already know the unique name of the app

If it's on one phone, you can almost always put it on any phone.
o It's not 100%always, but almost always (like 99% of the time always).

You just do three things most of us do all day, every day
1. You extract the APK on the 1st phone
2. You put the APK on the 2nd phone
3. You tap that APK to install it on the 2nd phone

I do it all the time
o Only once or twice out of, oh, many hundreds of APKs, has that not worked

> I still have my old LG-4 and there is no sign of it there or ability to
> install it.

You can slide the APK from one to the other in so many ways it's not funny.
o Perhaps the simplest way is just plug both phones into USB

Then just slide the extracted APK from the 1st phone to the 2nd phone
o Tap on the APK on the 2nd phone, and it will install (99% of the time)

If it doesn't, let us know what it says when you tap the APK to install it.
--
If you're unsure of what I'm saying, how to do it was already in the cites.

[philo]

Thank you

something for me to check out.
Appreciate the help!

[philo]

Tried an apk backup app.
It does not see QuickMemo+

It seems to be built on to the OS and not a stand alone app

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 22:33:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
>> have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).
>
> I'm aware.

Hi Carlos,

Happy New Year!

For those who are comparing Google Keep to Joplin, here's each link:
o Google Keep <https://www.google.com/keep/>
o Joplin <https://joplinapp.org/>

Here's a review of each (although the Google Keep in PC Magazine:
o <https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/7-reasons-to-actually-start-using-google-keep>
o <https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/joplin>

Here's how to port Google Keep to Joplin, for those who might want to:
o <https://blog.jfx.ac/moving-notes-from-google-keep-to-joplin.html>

>> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
>> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".
>
> Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
> soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.

Understood.

BTW, I've never had a "shop clerk" set up a phone for me.
o Mine arrive, usually by post or from Costco, where I'm the 1st user.

If people don't mind logging into things, there are other alternatives also:
o <https://www.tomsguide.com/round-up/best-note-taking-apps>

For example, Notion seems to have SAML/SSL "sync" features built in:
o Notion - Notes, Tasks, Wikis, by Notion Labs, Inc.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=notion.id>

> With any other cloud provider I first have to actually contract them,
> perhaps pay them, and actually write configuration on the apps.

Understood.

BTW, I'm likely the least knowledgeable here as to "cloud providers"
as I'm more likely to set up NextCloud or OwnCloud than a Google cloud solution.
o Joplin with NextCloud/OwnCloud <https://www.beris.nl/joplin/>

> The phone is perpetually logged into Google, since day one.

Understood.

For the record, I don't even have a Google Account set up on my phone.
o And it works just fine.

But most people do have the OS pointed to a Google Account.
o And it works fine for them, which I fully understand.

> It is so
> transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
> password.

Understood.
o Although that's a sad thought.

> This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
> friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
> the same phone since 2018).

Understood.
o Although I think it would be crazy to let someone else set up their phone.

I used to factory wipe every month or so, but I don't factory reset much
lately as I've gotten pretty good at knowing what system apps to disable.

> That is far from "trivial".

Here's a table comparing Google Keep to Joplin for the Usenet record:
o <https://www.slant.co/versus/2120/24561/~google-keep_vs_joplin>

> And it would not sync out of home.

As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works
fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).

But I agree with you completely that it's not for most people.

> Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
> say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
> the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
> pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.

Understood.

When I just now googled for the "best note taking apps", sync showed
up as a feature on many of them.
o <https://androidwaves.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
o <https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-app>
o <https://collegeinfogeek.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
etc.

Both Keep & Evernote (aka Joplin, in a sense) are on most of them.

> Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
> shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
> the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.

Understood.

> This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.

Not really, but I understand what you mean.

What you mean is a Google "registration" is transparent on Android.
o I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.

> Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
> know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
> people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.

Understood.
o I generally don't put stuff on a phone that I'd be worried about either.

> If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
> would have to be a fully EU-one.

Understood.
o There's a _reason_ we have a 2nd amendment (to keep the gob'ment honest)

For us, I'm not sure if a EU cloud provider would work as well as it
might for you (in Portugal?) as we have the FBI watching us internally
and the NSA tapping everything we do that goes overseas. :)
--
Privacy is something that is like washing your hands; you're never finished
cleaning up the spots between the fingers and under the fingernails...

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 18:36:53 -0600, philo wrote:

> something for me to check out.

Hi philo,

Happy New Year!

Yes, it's worthwhile to know that any free app that is already installed on
your phone can instantly be extracted to an APK where most of those
extracted APKs (99%) will work fine when re-installed on another phone.

The minor 1% (or even less) would be those that are built _only_ for one
phone or for one brand or for one Android SDK version, etc.,. but almost
all apps (even the pre-installed apps) work on almost all phones (IME).

Note: That only applies to Android & Windows & Linux but not Apple stuff.
o Apple IPAs are designed to be limited from the start so all bets are off.

As for the unique app name, every app has one, and without that, it's
something that matters if someone else is trying to use the same app as
lots of apps have the same informal name but none have the same unique name
(AFAIK).

Happy New Year!
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help everyone with the data.

[Arlen Holder]

Hi philo,

IMHO, what you just claimed is (AFAIK) completely unheard of.

Did you use an APK backup app that I posted in the cites?
o Which of those APK backup apps I had suggested did you use?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others help themselves.

[philo]

I tried one you has suggedted: My APKs
plus one I found on my own called App Backup and Restore.
Both gave identical results.

They saw mostly just apps I had installed myself.

Neither saw QuickMemo+

[Carlos E.R.]

On 02/01/2021 05.46, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 22:33:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

>>> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
>>> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".
>>
>> Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
>> soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.
>
> Understood.
>
> BTW, I've never had a "shop clerk" set up a phone for me.
> o Mine arrive, usually by post or from Costco, where I'm the 1st user.

Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
the phone, or asks written permission to do so.

...

>> It is so
>> transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
>> password.
>
> Understood.
> o Although that's a sad thought.

Depends on the point of view :-)

>
>> This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
>> friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
>> the same phone since 2018).
>
> Understood.
> o Although I think it would be crazy to let someone else set up their phone.

No, it is not. It is just a fact.

When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

The normal thing to do is have a professional do at least the initial
setup of any machine you buy. Why would we have to setup our computers
ourselves, if we are not professionals?

>
> I used to factory wipe every month or so, but I don't factory reset much
> lately as I've gotten pretty good at knowing what system apps to disable.
>
>> That is far from "trivial".
>
> Here's a table comparing Google Keep to Joplin for the Usenet record:
> o <https://www.slant.co/versus/2120/24561/~google-keep_vs_joplin>

Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.

I see:

Pro: Dropbox support

Can sync using Dropbox.


Con: Sync issue under Linux

The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.


Con: Sync issues on Windows

No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.

>
>> And it would not sync out of home.
>
> As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works
> fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).

But most people do not.

I don't. I have a dynamic name host, so I can reach my IP of the time.
But I am paranoid about its security, and I tell you that remote sync
will not work with it. Not as normally understood, it is a complex
procedure.

>
> But I agree with you completely that it's not for most people.
>
>> Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
>> say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
>> the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
>> pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.
>
> Understood.
>
> When I just now googled for the "best note taking apps", sync showed
> up as a feature on many of them.
> o <https://androidwaves.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
> o <https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-app>
> o <https://collegeinfogeek.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
> etc.

It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)

>
> Both Keep & Evernote (aka Joplin, in a sense) are on most of them.
>
>> Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
>> shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
>> the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.
>
> Understood.
>
>> This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.
>
> Not really, but I understand what you mean.
>
> What you mean is a Google "registration" is transparent on Android.
> o I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.

Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.

I don't. If I have to, I use a separate Firefox profile, so that google
can not track my every browser activity connected to my email and actual
person.

Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.

>> Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
>> know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
>> people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.
>
> Understood.
> o I generally don't put stuff on a phone that I'd be worried about either.
>
>> If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
>> would have to be a fully EU-one.
>
> Understood.
> o There's a _reason_ we have a 2nd amendment (to keep the gob'ment honest)
>
> For us, I'm not sure if a EU cloud provider would work as well as it
> might for you (in Portugal?) as we have the FBI watching us internally
> and the NSA tapping everything we do that goes overseas. :)

Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Libor Striz]

Dieter Britz <dieterh...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want onethat is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.

Asking what application is the best
is like asking what meal is the best.
The only one who knows the answer
is the one who is asking.

Search for some, try them and keep the one you like the most. Note
keepers like many application categories have plenty of reviews
and top N lists. You may check 2 of them:

https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-apps-android

https://www.androidauthority.com/best-note-taking-apps-for-android
-205356/

For notes, I use Google Keep and QuickEdit as plain text editor,
but people's priorities differ a lot.

--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )

[Dieter Britz]

On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 13:34:20 +0000, Dieter Britz wrote:

> What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,

> and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one that is just a

> plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.

Thank you all for your answers. I ended up installing Quick Notes
and so far it seems fine.

--
Dieter Britz

[AJL]

On 1/2/2021 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator,
> an air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
> professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

My new phone (purchased online) should arrive in the mail in a few days.
In the past I've bought my phones in a nearby phone store and had them
set up there. It was very easy.

But times change. My phone store currently requires appointments because
of Covid. And my local emergency rooms were turning away ambulances
yesterday because there was no room. So I decided maybe it was wise to
do it by mail this time. YMMV.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 05:34:54 +0000, philo wrote:

> Neither saw QuickMemo+

Everything you said is unheard of, in my humblest of experiences:
1. I can always find the unique app name (always!)
2. I can always extract the APK after the fact (even system APKs!).

I don't have any more advice for you than what I already gave though.
o So we're just gonna have to leave you at this point as you are.

Bear in mind here's just one year's worth of my extracted APKs:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg>

That's 1,600 extracted APKs on one phone alone for only one year of use.
o My point is that what I say is based on my humblest of experiences.

Everything you said is unheard of, to me, in my humble experience.
o But I can't offer you any more help than I already have provided.

Good luck.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 13:36:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
> the phone, or asks written permission to do so.

Hi Carlos,

I have no beef from a technology standpoint of having someone else "set up"
your phone, but my worry is privacy.

Then again, I help my neighbors with their rooftop WISP antennas where I
have the password to every single one of them, and they trust me. :)

And I help them with their repairs, and I help them cut down dead trees,
and I help them with their pool chemicals, and I help them with their well
pumps, etc., and they trust me. :)

I also belay them down cliffs... and they trust me. :)
o Some people are trustworthy; so maybe the store clerk is as good as I?

> Depends on the point of view :-)

Understood.

Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
automatically uploaded to Google's servers. I don't.

> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
> air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
> professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

I don't know how you Europeans do things, but we Americans, at least those
of us who live in the mountains, do a _lot_ of our own work ourselves.

For example, I keep cars for 25 years, and they have never seen a mechanic
save for recalls and warranty repairs (when in the original warranty
period). The only time I have someone else install a kitchen or laundry
appliance is if the installation was already included in the cost (which it
is for Costco stuff, but when you move, you just install them yourselves in
the new home).

I'm told the Japanese were astounded when the Americans had Henderson Field
up and running in less time than the Japanese had forecast themselves (with
their Korean labor slaves) even _after_ the Americans bombed the hell out
of it and the Japanese, in turn, knocked the American Navy out of existence
for a critical month or two.

I'm told Hirohito asked why that could be the case, and I'm told he was
told that the Americans know how to fix stuff.

It's the same here... we know how to install and fix stuff, Carlos.
o At least I do. It's how I was raised. We prize American ingenuity.

It's likely, perhaps, maybe, the reason Silicon Valley does so much stuff.
o We Americans invent almost everything nowadays... don't we?

But I do understand your point of view that a lot of people aren't
technical, which is why the highly MARKETED solutions (which we Americans
_also_ invented!) are so appealing to the non-technical public.

I just feel sorry for someone who needs someone else to set up a phone.

> The normal thing to do is have a professional do at least the initial
> setup of any machine you buy. Why would we have to setup our computers
> ourselves, if we are not professionals?

As stated above, and as you are well aware, I am on the linux and windows
newsgroups, where I wouldn't even think of having someone else set up my
PC.

Yet, as I stated many times on those newsgroups, at least for Windows
users, I've set up plenty (I recently converted a bunch of Windows S
laptops to Windows Home, and documented the steps so others could too).

I just feel sorry for people who can't even set up their own PCs.

> Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.
> I see:
> Pro: Dropbox support
> Can sync using Dropbox.
> Con: Sync issue under Linux
> The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
> frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.
> Con: Sync issues on Windows
> No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.

Understood.
o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.

I'm sure the "google sync" is seamless, just as the google uploading of
your private contacts is so seamless that I had to hunt for how they did it
in order to put a stop to it.

It's that seamless that they suck up your private data that you don't even
know how they did it sometimes (unless you look to see how they did it).

>> As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works
>> fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).
>
> But most people do not.

Agreed.

> I don't. I have a dynamic name host, so I can reach my IP of the time.
> But I am paranoid about its security, and I tell you that remote sync
> will not work with it. Not as normally understood, it is a complex
> procedure.

Understood.

> It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
> complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
> the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
> feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)

Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.

Note: I worked in software & hardware in the Silicon Valley for decades,
Carlos, so rest assured I'm well aware of what we'll just call "design
management", which is just about as complex as it can be when it comes
to managing permissions and users and file locking and revision control.

I'm all for the simplicity & portability of a simple text file. :)

>> I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.
>
> Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
> They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
> automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.

Understood, although I use YouTube alternatives on all platforms, such that
I keep my IP address and what I watch and search for and subscribe to out
of Google's paws (as much as I can).

But I do understand and agree that most people do not.

In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).

I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)

> I don't. If I have to, I use a separate Firefox profile, so that google
> can not track my every browser activity connected to my email and actual
> person.

I wrote a tutorial, Carlos, on how to set up browsers such that each
browser does one thing and one thing only, for just this purpose.
o Discussion of two different privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY>

Essentially, you break what you do into about a dozen tasks...
o And then you set up one browser each for each of those dozen tasks.

It takes a lot of browsers though... :)
o Links to full offline installers (not stubs) to all known freeware web browsers
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/krNaXA-YEbw>

> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
o (see philosophy described above)

> Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.

Understood and agreed as I do likewise.
o Google, Apple, Microsoft & Facebook are essentially banned...

Although, for Android, banning Google is problematic...
o And banning Microsoft on Windows is problematic...

Just as I banned "Unity" on Canonical's Ubuntu
o And as I shun Apple crapware on my iOS devices

Where I have many threads, as you're aware, on the topics of doing so.

> Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.

Understood.
o And agreed.

BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin

Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled
than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)

Likewise, we all need to stand up to the well funded TLAs
o And the well-funded MARKETING organizations (IMHO).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to discuss adult topics.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:43:32 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Asking what application is the best
> is like asking what meal is the best.
> The only one who knows the answer
> is the one who is asking.

Hi Poutnik,

You _always_ say that. :)
o But I would change what you say, a little bit.

As what you say is not completely correct, in my humble opinion.

Note that I test a _lot_ of software, by the way, which you probably know.
o Where, in the past year alone, I've installed over a thousand apps alone
<https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg> 1600 APKs extracted

That's a full 16 GB of apps which were on my phone in one year alone
o Given I've only had the phone for about a year overall
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLXyGjTH/apk02.jpg> 16GB of archive storage

If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say YouTube watching...
o I'd have absolutely no problem telling you firmly that it's NewPipe

If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say typical SMS/MMS...
o I'd have almost no problem telling you firmly that it's "Pulse SMS"

If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for oh, say, Truecrypt containers
o I'd have to say EDS Lite as I don't know of any other app that does it

If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say snapping photos...
o I'd have not too much problem telling you it's the Google Cam APK port

If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say audio transcription
o Again, I'd not have much problem saying it's the Google recorder port

However, to your point, if you ask _me_ what's the best app for, oh, say,
note taking, I'd have to say I alone have about fifty of them installed,
and I still don't know, myself, which is the "best" app for any given need.

Notice what I'm trying to explain to you, Poutnik, where I know you have a
Chemistry degree (and I have plenty of science & engineering too), where if
a person can handle facts like we can, we can _certainly_ let them know
what the best app is for a given task...

But...

But...

But...

The "given task" is the issue here, where "some" apps (like note taking)
are a "given task" that is ambiguous; whereas in the examples above I
purposefully chose apps where the "given task" can be easily assumed.

In summary, you always claim that it's impossible to say which is the
"best" app, and, in theory, I agree with you but in practice I do not.

> Search for some, try them and keep the one you like the most. Note
> keepers like many application categories have plenty of reviews
> and top N lists. You may check 2 of them:
>
> https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-apps-android
> https://www.androidauthority.com/best-note-taking-apps-for-android
> -205356/
>
> For notes, I use Google Keep and QuickEdit as plain text editor,
> but people's priorities differ a lot.

BTW, saying "QuickEdit" only works if that's the only one on Google Play.

Is _this_ the "QuickEdit" you suggest we test out?
o QuickEdit Text Editor Writer & Code Editor, by Rhythm Software, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rhmsoft.edit>

Or this one?
o QuickEdit for XenMobile, by Citrix
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.citrix.worxedit.xenmobile>

Probably not this one as it's Quick Edit(or)?
o Quick Editor, by kakitiro, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kakitiro.quickapps.quickeditor>

But to your point, as I test almost all the suggested software on this
newsgroup, I tested the Rhythm Software "QuickEdit" app and didn't like it
but that's because I have a "free, no ads" requirement for software which
others might not have.

I like that it has an auto-save feature, and its own file browser, and it
can set the CR/LF syntax for text files, and default encoding, etc.; but I
don't like that it's not free without ads, and more importantly for me, it
must save to a specified location on the Android external sdcard.

This bolsters your point that each person has a different idea of what's
"best" for them; but some things are best for everyone (see my examples
above) or at least are best for "most people" or for the "typical user".

In summary, while you're correct in theory that there is no "best" app,
in practice, we can "often" find a pretty damn good app, which, if we hone
that with the needs (e.g., simple note taking plus sync) can then at least
eliminate apps that don't have those minimum required features.

Perhaps we should ask for "recommended" apps, instead of best apps?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, to discuss adult topics on Usenet.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 08:40:14 -0700, AJL wrote:

> My new phone (purchased online) should arrive in the mail in a few days.
> In the past I've bought my phones in a nearby phone store and had them
> set up there. It was very easy.
>
> But times change. My phone store currently requires appointments because
> of Covid. And my local emergency rooms were turning away ambulances
> yesterday because there was no room. So I decided maybe it was wise to
> do it by mail this time. YMMV.

I'm confused what they _do_ to "set up" a phone for you where you live.

Where I live, in California, I bought a phone from Google, my $100 Moto G7,
which was on sale if I used Google Fi for a few days, which I did.

Then I cancelled the Google Fi account, and I put my T-Mobile SIM card into
the new Moto G7 when it arrived in the mail, and it just worked. If the SIM
card wasn't the same size, I'd call 611 on my old phone and ask T-Mobile to
send me a new SIM card, which might need "activation" over the phone.

But that's it for what _they_ need to do for me.
o They simply need to make sure that the SIM card is "activated".

I can put that SIM card into any unlocked phone I want that has the right
frequencies (which is most of the phones out there nowadays, it seems).

What else do you need _them_ to do for you for "setup"?

[philo]

Everything I've read about QuickMemo+
says it's not a stand alone app.

If you have extracted it, please let me know exactly how you did so.

Not a big deal though. Thanks

[Carlos E.R.]

Oh, I can certainly setup my phone, no problem. All my phones I setup
myself, and then those of my friends or family if they ask :-)

Maybe my first phone I got some initial help from the clerk. Quite
probably he inserted the SIM card, I don't remember. And a friend helped
me with advice. Actually, it was him who told me to setup the google
account. I remember because I used my private mail account, and later I
thought I should have used a new one. Too late.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 02/01/2021 19.49, Arlen Holder wrote:
> What else do you need _them_ to do for you for "setup"?

Insert the SIM, answer the initial questions, create a google account,
transfer data from your previous phone... all those are typical.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 02/01/2021 18.09, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 13:36:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
>> the phone, or asks written permission to do so.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I have no beef from a technology standpoint of having someone else "set up"
> your phone, but my worry is privacy.
>
> Then again, I help my neighbors with their rooftop WISP antennas where I
> have the password to every single one of them, and they trust me. :)
>
> And I help them with their repairs, and I help them cut down dead trees,
> and I help them with their pool chemicals, and I help them with their well
> pumps, etc., and they trust me. :)
>
> I also belay them down cliffs... and they trust me. :)
> o Some people are trustworthy; so maybe the store clerk is as good as I?

Maybe the person doesn't want to bother a friend with the request and
owe him/her a favour? :-D

There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They will
not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)

In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes and
hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they get to
know.

Of course, this is not always so.

>
>> Depends on the point of view :-)
>
> Understood.
>
> Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
> automatically uploaded to Google's servers. I don't.

Who cares? I might care, but it is pointless when many of my contacts
already have google accounts, use facebook, etc. I gave up.

>> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
>> air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
>> professional to do it for you? I guess the later.
>
> I don't know how you Europeans do things, but we Americans, at least those
> of us who live in the mountains, do a _lot_ of our own work ourselves.
>
> For example, I keep cars for 25 years, and they have never seen a mechanic
> save for recalls and warranty repairs (when in the original warranty
> period). The only time I have someone else install a kitchen or laundry
> appliance is if the installation was already included in the cost (which it
> is for Costco stuff, but when you move, you just install them yourselves in
> the new home).

Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances. You
need a certified installer and a periodical inspection for leaks and
compliance. They even do a test of the exhaust from the hot water flash
boiler to verify that it burns properly. I simply don't have the
equipment, and certainly I don't have the certifications.

As for other stuff, the warranty on the machines may be voided if not
installed by a proper technician. The washing machine I would not have
been able to move it myself, so... The air conditioner also needs a
certified technician to handle those gases, which are controlled
substances sometimes. Other AC units may use flammable gasses. There are
papers to sign.

...

>> Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.
>> I see:
>> Pro: Dropbox support
>> Can sync using Dropbox.
>> Con: Sync issue under Linux
>> The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
>> frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.
>> Con: Sync issues on Windows
>> No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.
>
> Understood.
> o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.

Oh, I'm certainly interested in that application, I might set it up for me.

>> It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
>> complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
>> the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
>> feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)
>
> Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
> o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.

It is the saving to somewhere accessible which is the difficulty, and
the beauty of the "cloud". I certainly can do without, but I appreciate
the niceties.

>>> I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.
>>
>> Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
>> They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
>> automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.
>
> Understood, although I use YouTube alternatives on all platforms, such that
> I keep my IP address and what I watch and search for and subscribe to out
> of Google's paws (as much as I can).
>
> But I do understand and agree that most people do not.

Some do intentionally log into youtube so that it keeps their history of
what they see and the AI suggests to them new cute cat videos to watch :-)

I don't.

> In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
> when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
> more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).
>
> I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)

It depends on the IP mapping of their internet supplier. Some are better
mapped than others.

>> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.
>
> Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
> o (see philosophy described above)

It is effectively different browsers. Different PID.

>
>> Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.
>
> Understood and agreed as I do likewise.
> o Google, Apple, Microsoft & Facebook are essentially banned...
>
> Although, for Android, banning Google is problematic...
> o And banning Microsoft on Windows is problematic...

Linux.

>
> Just as I banned "Unity" on Canonical's Ubuntu
> o And as I shun Apple crapware on my iOS devices
>
> Where I have many threads, as you're aware, on the topics of doing so.
>
>> Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.
>
> Understood.
> o And agreed.
>
> BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
> o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin

Huh, no, he did not. He was similar to him.

>
> Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled
> than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)

he was bored to hell by him, he talked to much.

>
> Likewise, we all need to stand up to the well funded TLAs
> o And the well-funded MARKETING organizations (IMHO).
>


--

Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

On 1/2/2021 1:01 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They
> will not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)

In my past phone purchases the store clerk has always handed me back the
phones (both old and new) for me to enter my password when required.

> In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
> want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes
> and hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they
> get to know.

And then in my presence the clerk plugged both phones into a box for the
data transfer. So nothing private (password or data) was ever exposed to
the clerk.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 02/01/2021 22.36, AJL wrote:
> On 1/2/2021 1:01 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They
>> will not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)
>
> In my past phone purchases the store clerk has always handed me back the
> phones (both old and new) for me to enter my password when required.

Right.

>> In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
>> want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes
>> and hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they
>> get to know.
>
> And then in my presence the clerk plugged both phones into a box for the
> data transfer. So nothing private (password or data) was ever exposed to
> the clerk.

Yes, details depends on the shop and the brand.

Here, on one shop at least, by default the clerk will not do anything,
unless you ask specifically.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[philo]

Success!

The program APP Backup & Restore had a setting to find system apps.

And I now have QuickMemo+ backed up.

I did not see such a setting on My APKs.


Anyway thank you so much.

Now if I get a new Android without the app..

I can install it.

Again thank you!

Really nice to know this.

[Libor Striz]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> Wrote in message:

> Hi Poutnik,You _always_ say that. :)

:-) And I suppose I will always do, unless somebody makes me to
change the opinion.

Any debate over it implies we share the general definition of
"the best", not limited to software,
otherwise we would talk about different things, talking about the best.

The scope of being the best is as wide as the scope of the shared
equivalent criteria for it and their evaluation too, leading to
the same result.

If best applications for given purpose had existed, it would have
been easily determined which ones, *independently* on opinions
AND there would have been no hot debates why those. Like there
are no hot debates which of 10 m, 20 m, 30 m tall trees is the
tallest one.

Being best is not an attribute of an object itself, but it is an
attribute of the subject-object relation. Existence of different
subjects means different relations to the object, some of them
having the attribute "being the best for purpose
X".

> If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say YouTube watching...o I'd have absolutely no problem telling you firmly that it's NewPipe.

Yes, but it is your criteria, your evaluation, your best. And of
those who share it. ( I do for now, but that is coincidence
)

The same applies to other examples, not being limited to software.

> BTW, saying "QuickEdit" only works if that's the only one on Google Play

Thanks for the correction,I have meant by Rhythm, not being aware
there are more.
Note that I have written I use it, not that it is best application.

I could write it is best by my opinion and for me for now, because
I have evaluated so.
But the scope of this best is limited,
as the criteria and evaluation, including subconscious ones, is
limited to me and those who share it.
.

> what's"best" for them; but some things are best for everyone (see my examples above) or at least are best for "most people" or for the "typical user".

This is again your criteria and evaluation, that is valid only in
their shared scope.
You can more or less successfully predict evaluation of others,
but you cannot decide it for them. They may or may not share your
opinion.

"Being best for person Y for purpose X" is an attribute of a
ternary relation of 2 subjects and 1 object.
Again many possibilities. 5 people can have up to 5 different
opinions what backpack I should buy for particular purpose. And
up to 5 other different opinions for other purpose and/or for
other person.

> Perhaps we should ask for "recommended" apps, instead of best apps?

Exactly.
In fact, I suppose the majority want to ask for this, if asking
for the best.

If you asked in video processing forum forum.doom9.org, what is
the best application for H264 encoding, DVD authoring or video
processing, you would get at first warning by moderators,

and later at repeated occurrences eventually temporary or
permanent ban.
As not asking for best ones is prevention of flame wars.

[Libor Striz]

Libor Striz <poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> Wrote
in message:

>> Perhaps we should ask for "recommended" apps, instead of best apps?

> Exactly. In fact, I suppose the majority want to ask for this, if asking for the best.

P.S.: I guess my prior post could be summarised as

best(1) as the conditional result of subjective comparison
best(2) as the recommended choice, based on best(1).

and that users ask for best(2).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 21:01:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
>> automatically uploaded to Google's servers. I don't.
>
> Who cares? I might care, but it is pointless when many of my contacts
> already have google accounts, use facebook, etc. I gave up.

Hi Carlos,

You bring up good points where neither one of us disagrees on the facts
o Since we both agree on facts, we can reasonably disagree on assessments

My assessment is that it sucks that my neighbors are too stupid to _not_
upload my contact data, and that of my kids and their kids, to Google.

I'm intelligent enough _not_ to upload _their_ kid's data to Google...
o Why can't they extend the same intelligence quotient to me?

Likewise with photos of my kids (we do a lot of neighborhood hikes, for
example), and likewise with my access points and unique BSSID.

It irks me that my own neighbors give my private information to Google
simply because _they_ are too stupid to know how to set up a phone.

NOTE: I certainly know about "nomap" but it's still _uploaded_ to Google
Servers (Google says they won't put it on their external database though).

> Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances.

Wow. Really? That's like forbidding the owner to install a light bulb.
o Here we can install anything we want (AFAIK).

Some things need a "permit", e.g., a gas water heater needs to have
earthquake straps, vents covering the flame, a vent in the top going to the
roof, shutoff valves for the water coming in, an overflow safety valve &
pipe that goes down to just above floor level, a check valve in the yellow
crinkle hose, always a brand new crinkle hose every time, a shutoff valve
dedicated to the water heater, and a step of something like 18 inches to
keep the flame away from the heavier-than-air natural gas in case of a
leak, etc.

What I do, since I happen to know all this stuff, is replace the water
heater myself, and then I just make sure it "would" pass a permit check.

If they ever bothered to check, it would pass. I haven't hooked up a gas
dryer or a gas stove in a while, but I'd do the same thing.

It's just plumbing.
o It's not rocket science.

In fact, recently I advised a friend how to hook up his gas appliances and
his wife smelled a leak, so he called me, and I told him to do 3 things:
1. Close the gas valve
2. Open all the windows
3. Call PG&E immediately

Much to their surprise, PG&E was there in 10 minutes, which even I was
surprised, where the homeowner explained he just hooked up an appliance,
and the PG&E guy found that he accidentally disturbed a secondary valve.

The PG&E call was free, and the guy used a "sniffer" to confirm that
shutting the valve worked to block the gas, and he told the homeowner
he did the right thing by opening up the windows & shutting the gas off
and then calling him.

That's how we do things in the USA.

Note: I have my own propane tanks to heat up the pool and the house,
so I don't know if I called my propane supplier whether the call would
be free or not, but the point is that we have it figured out in the USA.

> You
> need a certified installer and a periodical inspection for leaks and
> compliance. They even do a test of the exhaust from the hot water flash
> boiler to verify that it burns properly. I simply don't have the
> equipment, and certainly I don't have the certifications.

Here, in the USA, as far as I know, at least in California, you can do
anything you want as long as it's to code. The codes are specified, so it's
not rocket science to figure out the code.

Interestingly, a _lot_ of people build stuff that is _not_ to code out here
in the mountains, and as long as they get along well with their neighbors,
nobody says anything.

But some people are nasty with their neighbors, and then the neighbors rat
on them and then the county redtags the premise if it's really bad.

If it's not really bad, the just make it such that the owner can never get
another permit until they satisfy the old permits, where more than once
I've seen people had to knock down entire structures (out here, we're in a
special district that has to be "beautiful" so we can't have any structures
with 100 feet of the road, for example, so we have a _lot_ of extra codes
to deal with.

We can't even cut down a live or dead tree without a permit, if that tree
is a foot wide at about chest high, but everyone does it, and, as always,
as long as your neighbors don't rat you out, who is gonna know?

California is strange though, as it's a nanny state.

> As for other stuff, the warranty on the machines may be voided if not
> installed by a proper technician. The washing machine I would not have
> been able to move it myself, so... The air conditioner also needs a
> certified technician to handle those gases, which are controlled
> substances sometimes. Other AC units may use flammable gasses. There are
> papers to sign.

Ah. AC. I think we have rules on who can recharge and recycle A/C, but I'm
not sure as I haven't recharged an automotive A/C in quite a long while
myself.

We certainly have rules on A/C (particularly for recycling), of that I'm
sure; but I'm not sure if it has to be a "certified" technician (who are
usually just high-school-educated kids who couldn't go to college, IMHO, so
I don't put much stock in technicians myself, personally, as it's not
rocket science if you can read the codes).

Again, here in the mountains anyway, we in the USA do it the American way.
o Ourselves

>> o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.
>
> Oh, I'm certainly interested in that application, I might set it up for me.

I installed Joplin but I haven't used it, where I "think" it was intended
to be a FOSS replacement for Evernote, more so than for Google Keep.

And others seem to exist, e.g., this Google Keep review suggests:
o Joplin
o Zoho Notebook
o Microsoft OneNote
<https://au.pcmag.com/software/84425/google-keep>

Even so, I saw when I was researching Joplin plenty of tutorials on
converting Google Keep to Joplin, where each has its own advantages
(e.g., Joplin apparently allows markup & reputedly handles complexity).

For example, this is dated December 2020, so it's up to date (we hope)
o Moving notes from Google Keep to Joplin
<https://blog.jfx.ac/moving-notes-from-google-keep-to-joplin.html>

There are also decent tutorials for migrating Google Keep to Evernote:
o How to transfer Notes from Google Keep to Evernote
<https://www.guidingtech.com/transfer-notes-google-keep-evernote/>

While this lists a ton of other notetaking apps for Android & iOS:
o Best note taking apps of 2020
<https://www.tomsguide.com/round-up/best-note-taking-apps>
o Evernote
o OneNote
o Google Keep
o Notion
o MyScript Nebo
o Dropbox Paper
o Joplin
o Standard Note
o Notebook
o SimpleNote
o Bear
o Notes
o Noteshelf
o Penultimate
o Notability
o Squid

I generally prefer the FOSS stuff myself
o Especially since it's free and presumably works on all platforms

First step, of course, is to export your data from Google Keep:
o <https://support.google.com/keep/answer/10017039>

Which, this being the EOY, isn't a bad idea for archival purposes.

>> Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
>> o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.
>
> It is the saving to somewhere accessible which is the difficulty, and
> the beauty of the "cloud". I certainly can do without, but I appreciate
> the niceties.

Understood.

The cloud is "handy" just as a chain saw is handy
o They both have their inherent dangers though

> Some do intentionally log into youtube so that it keeps their history of
> what they see and the AI suggests to them new cute cat videos to watch :-)
>
> I don't.

Just so you know, NewPipe can be set to save its own YouTube history
o That way your history isn't known to Google (AFAIK)

Between you and me, given you seem to comprehend the difference between
Android aficionados versus the average Android user, if someone uses
YouTube, I think they're just crazy, given NewPipe is just about everything
anyone would want in a YouTube replacement app.

If they're using YouTube, they can only be either ignorant, or stupid (IMHO).
o But maybe I'm too harsh on the ignorati. :)

>> In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
>> when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
>> more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).
>>
>> I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)
>
> It depends on the IP mapping of their internet supplier. Some are better
> mapped than others.

It can't really be "just" that as most of us in the mountains use one of
three or four WISP suppliers (we don't have any cable in our mountains).

But maybe it's that simple, as when I'm off VPN, it knows my general area.

>>> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.
>>
>> Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
>> o (see philosophy described above)
>
> It is effectively different browsers. Different PID.

Understood.
o And agreed.

Not many people would want the "complexity" of dealing with multiple
browsers, which I don't have any problem with - but others might.

>> BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
>> o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin
>
> Huh, no, he did not. He was similar to him.

You may not know this, but I'm a self-described history buff...
o Where I try to study dictators, in particular, to see why they work

For some countries, without the kind of independent spirit we have in the
USA, a dictator is actually a good thing, at times, e.g., for
Spain/Yugoslavia (at least from the 30s to the 70s perhaps).

History is a difficult subject to debate as is technology since we have to
start with the facts.

IMHO, both Caudillo & Broz committed brutal repressions early on, but who
enabled disassociate peoples to "get along" with resulting economic
prosperity and quality of life improvements due to both forming deeply
centralized authoritarian government and nationalistic policy (which went
the hell in Yugoslavia the instant Tito died).

Neither would win any awards for "human rights" achievements though.

>> Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled
>> than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)
>
> he was bored to hell by him, he talked to much.

Interesting.
o I wasn't aware of that but I don't doubt that you would know more than I.

Franco did supply the Nazi's (via Himmler) with a "list of Spanish Jews"
though, which shows Caudillo wasn't so standoffish as some might have
thought (I doubt Tito would have ever done that, for example).

Franco played both sides in WWII, and for that, he deserves less respect,
IMHO, than, oh, say, the British, who were always faithful to their allies.

In keeping with the comparison, Tito definitely played both sides, just as
Caudillo did, so neither wins any awards for being loyal friends to anyone.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to discuss topics of interest.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 20:38:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Insert the SIM, answer the initial questions, create a google account,
> transfer data from your previous phone... all those are typical.

Ah, the "transfer data from your previous phone" part is what most people
likely need.

Thanks for reminding me of that, as I do it naturally without any problems,
but I understand that most people usually want a "clone" of the old phone.

Me?
1. I already have all the apps saved as APKs on a Windows mounted HDD
<https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg>
(Note that process is _automatic_ as it happens the instant I download
and install the app (or its update version) whether I obtain the app
from Google Play (i.e., Aurora Store) or from F-Droid (Aurora Droid).

2. I have the entire homescreen look & feel archived to a single file
(via Nova free launcher, so the first thing I'd do is import that).

3. Then all I need to do is populate the new phone with the desired apps
(each already has a placeholder in the imported Nova free launcher).

If I want to bring over the old "data", I just copy the two directories:
o Internal sdcard data === "0data"
o External sdcard data === "1data"

But I agree with you that most people might not know how to do all that.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help flesh out the answers.

[Arlen Holder]

AFAIK, there is no such thing as "not a stand alone app".
o Nor is there such a thing as an app without a unique name

If it has an icon called something, oh, say, "QuickMemo+" then
a. It has a unique name (and that's _not_ QuickMemo+ for sure!)
b. And, it can be extracted to an APK (it just can)

Based on experience that I've been finding names & extracting APKs
o For as long as Android has existed (well, almost as long)

Just my one phone alone, barely a year old, has 1,600 APKs:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg> 1600 APKs extracted
o <https://i.postimg.cc/cLXyGjTH/apk02.jpg> 16GB of archive storage

So, unless you know a _lot_ more than I do, I doubt what you claim
o But it's no big deal.

I can't help you any more than I've already done so.
o If you read the cites, you would be able to perform the tasks.

Good luck!
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, to help others in need.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 02:49:48 +0000, philo wrote:

> Success!
> The program APP Backup & Restore had a setting to find system apps.
> And I now have QuickMemo+ backed up.

Good. I knew it would work to back up _any_ installed app, even system
apps.

What was the full name of the APK that it backed up?

> Now if I get a new Android without the app..
> I can install it.

Just a warning that any one free APK works on any other Android phone under
two circumstances, which only happen less than 1% of the time:
1. If the manufacturer of the app _limited_ it to a specific phone, or,
2. If the SDK version of the app no longer works on a newer Android version

In my humblest of experiences, where I must have extracted thousands of
APKs over the years for re-use on other Android devices, this happens only
a handful of times.

> Again thank you!
> Really nice to know this.

I am glad to help as I was starting to wonder if you were a troll, so I'm
glad you reported back.

It's a favorite tactic of the "highwinds" trolls (such as "T", "micky",
"Bod", and a few others I'm watching closely) to ask a question that they
simply fabricate, and then to throw hurdle after hurdle into the responses
aimed at graciously helping them.

Not even clicking nor reading (or comprehending) the cites provided is a
classic child-like game that the Apple apologists do all the time, by the
way, as do the infantile trolls, where they don't even attempt the
solutions so kindly suggested of them (e.g., you still haven't bothered to
list the full name of the app you have, which is trivial to do if you
followed my directions).

So I'm glad you reported success.
o What is the name of the APK you extracted?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, as always, to voluntarily help all.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 10:29:05 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> :-) And I suppose I will always do, unless somebody makes me to
> change the opinion.

Hi Poutnik,
We agree that there is no such thing as "the best" app, just as there's no
such thing as the "best country" or the "best car" or the "best OS", etc.

I only disagree with you on the _finality_ of your assessment, which is
that you seem to consider the answer to the question to be futile, whereas
I think there are generally accepted answers which will suffice.

One claim of mine, suggesting a few simple apps, overwhelms in value ten
thousand of your posts claiming there is no such thing as a best app.
o Even as you're technically correct.

For example, there's no such thing as "the best government", but I would
claim that a "democracy" is usually better than a "dictatorship", given the
basic needs of the people in each (but where some dictatorships, e.g., the
aforementioned Franco and Tito as per my discussion with Carlos, seem to
have benefited the people at the time they needed it).

In summary, I think a "recommended app" for a given purpose is not futile.
o Your response seems to me to always be one of utter despair.

I don't share your negative view of "the best app" for a given task.
o That's our main difference, which is in the utility of the suggestions

> Any debate over it implies we share the general definition of
> "the best", not limited to software,
> otherwise we would talk about different things, talking about the best.

While I agree, there are _clearly_ best in class apps "most" would agree
1. Google Maps
2. NewPipe
3. DiskUsage
4. TrailSense
5. Google Recorder APK port
6. Google Gcam APK port
7. VLC
8. Let's Print Droid
9. Cellular-Z
10. App Manager
11. Termux
12. Nova launcher
etc.

Even if folks do not agree on those "best in class" apps, absolutely none
of them are bad apps so they're all worth downloading for someone who is
testing out apps to find the one they like the best.

That's how we differ.
o I think your responses, while well meant, are utterly useless

Worse than your responses being utterly useless, they're actually
detrimental to the cause of finding a good app.

I'd rather see you ask for what the requirements are, before you say there
are no best in class apps; and I'd rather you suggest a few apps which are
best in class, than you claiming that there is no such thing.

Sure, the other person may not agree with you, as, for example, I don't
particularly like the privacy implications of "Here Maps" as you seem to
think it's a great app (and yes, I know, you have a friend there somehow).

But Here Maps is not a bad map app, so it's fine that you recommend it.
o Which is my point.

My point is simple:
a. It's better to recommend an app that fits the OP's request
b. Than to tell the OP to go fuck himself and look it up all by himself

For example, I suggested the OP use "Simple Mobile Tools'" note app.
o Given the OP's only requirement be that the app is simple.

In my humble opinion, while you're completely correct there is no best app,
my advice to the OP was worth ten thousand of your repeated posts claiming
there is no such thing.

It just is.
o Ten thousand of your repeated claims are ten thousand worthless posts

One claim of mine, suggesting a few simple apps, overwhelms in value ten
thousand of your posts claiming there is no such thing as a best app.
o Even as you're technically correct.

> The scope of being the best is as wide as the scope of the shared
> equivalent criteria for it and their evaluation too, leading to
> the same result.

While you're technically correct, to claim there is no answer to the OP's
question is worthless, even if you claim it ten thousand times or more.

One single post pointing the OP to a note taking app that is "simple"
(which was the OP's only stated requirement, as I recall) is worth more
than ten thousand of your repeated posts claiming there is no answer to the
question.

Even as you are technically correct.

> If best applications for given purpose had existed, it would have
> been easily determined which ones, *independently* on opinions
> AND there would have been no hot debates why those. Like there
> are no hot debates which of 10 m, 20 m, 30 m tall trees is the
> tallest one.

Well, I listed a dozen apps offhand, and I can likely list a score more
that would be pretty close to "best in class" where there wouldn't be much
of a debate, don't you agree?

I have apps like "Create Shortcut" and "Pulse SMS" and "App Drawer" and
"EDS lite" and "Keepass2Android" and "Button Mapper" and "NitroShare" and
"KDE Connect" and "Wigle WiFI" and "OSMAnd~" and "Stellarium", etc. on my
system (I just took a quick look and all of those are damn good apps).

Sure, for any one app category I might have a few of the "best in class"
apps, e.g., in my StarMaps section of my MAP folder, I have:
o Stellarium
o Star Chart
o Sky Map
o Constellations
o Planisphere

Where almost any of them could qualify as a recommended app, depending on
any particulars the OP might want to add to hone down the list.

If you asked me what's the best, I'd say "Stellarium"; but if you then said
you wanted to see just the constellations individually, I'd say
"Constellations"; but if you had asked to see the entire sky in one view,
I'd suggest "Planisphere"; but if you asked for a simplified view of the
sky with constellations more obvious than stars I'd suggest "Sky Map"; and
if you had asked for distances to the stars I'd suggest "Star Chart", etc.

Here's how a conversation with an OP would go with your attitude:
Q: Which is the best star chart for looking at the sky?
A: There isn't any.

Here's how a conversation with an OP would go with my attitude:
Q: Which is the best star chart for looking at the sky?
A: I'd suggest either "Stellarium" or "Star Chart" for starters.

While your answer is technically correct, it's utterly useless to the OP.
o While mine is technically incorrect, it at least provides utility.

Which is my point.

> Being best is not an attribute of an object itself, but it is an
> attribute of the subject-object relation. Existence of different
> subjects means different relations to the object, some of them
> having the attribute "being the best for purpose
> X".

See above.
a. Your answer is worthless; yet I agree it's technically correct.
b. My answer is useful; even as I agree it's technically incorrect.

>
>> If you ask _me_ what's the "best" app for, oh, say YouTube watching...
>> o I'd have absolutely no problem telling you firmly that it's NewPipe.
>
> Yes, but it is your criteria, your evaluation, your best. And of
> those who share it. ( I do for now, but that is coincidence
> )
> The same applies to other examples, not being limited to software.

I disagree with you completely and fully in that you likely can't name a
single feature of the YouTube app which is better than that of NewPipe.

And even so, NewPipe is damn good by all accounts I've ever seen.
o Have you _ever_ seen a bad review of NewPipe?

I haven't.

The point is that this is a conversation with an OP from you:
Q: What's the best youtube app replacement?
A: There isn't any.

The point is that this is a conversation with an OP from me:
Q: What's the best youtube app replacement?
A: Try NewPipe.

>> BTW, saying "QuickEdit" only works if that's the only one on Google Play
>
> Thanks for the correction,I have meant by Rhythm, not being aware
> there are more.

On Android, there are _always_ more. :)

> Note that I have written I use it, not that it is best application.

To the point of the best note taking app, you'll note I have something like
fifty of them installed myself, and I still don't know which is the best.

In a way, they all suck.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/htxGtgZp/notepad01.jpg>

> I could write it is best by my opinion and for me for now, because
> I have evaluated so.
> But the scope of this best is limited,
> as the criteria and evaluation, including subconscious ones, is
> limited to me and those who share it.

Again, I repeat you are technically correct.
o But being technically correct is worthless to any given OP.

Here's what you said, essentially, to the OP's question:
Q: What's the best _simple_ note-taking app?
A: There aren't any; look it up.

Here's what I said, essentially, to the OP's question:
Q: What's the best _simple_ note-taking app?
A: Try SimpleMobileTools' note taking app (which is designed to be simple).

My point of view is that you telling a thousand OP's that there is no such
thing as a "best app" is technically correct a thousand times, but it's
also worthless a thousand times.

Me or Carlos or Vanguard, et al., suggesting just _one_ simple note taking
app is worth a thousand of your (technically correct) claims that none
exist.

And that's my point.
o It's not whether you're correct or not - it's whether you're useful.

I try to be useful to most OP's
o (except to trolls - whom I try to get them to go away).

>> what's"best" for them; but some things are best for everyone
>> (see my examples above) or at least are best for "most people"
>> or for the "typical user".
>
> This is again your criteria and evaluation, that is valid only in
> their shared scope.
> You can more or less successfully predict evaluation of others,
> but you cannot decide it for them. They may or may not share your
> opinion.

To my main point, I'm trying to be useful more so than technically correct.

You're technically correct in this dialog which you always do:
Q: What's the best _simple_ note taking app?
A: They don't exist.

I'm technically incorrect, but useful, when the dialog goes this way:
Q: What's the best _simple_ note taking app?
A: Try SimpleMobileTools' note taking app <http://simplemobiletools.com>

> "Being best for person Y for purpose X" is an attribute of a
> ternary relation of 2 subjects and 1 object.
> Again many possibilities. 5 people can have up to 5 different
> opinions what backpack I should buy for particular purpose. And
> up to 5 other different opinions for other purpose and/or for
> other person.

See above.
a. You're technically correct; but that is useless to the OP.
b. I'm technically incorrect; but I'm trying to be useful to the OP.

Is it better to be technically correct or useful to the OP?
o Your choice.

>> Perhaps we should ask for "recommended" apps, instead of best apps?
>
> Exactly.
> In fact, I suppose the majority want to ask for this, if asking
> for the best.

Here we fully agree, but most OP's don't put much effort into a post.
o We're kind'a stuck with lazy OP's, whether we like it or not.

We can try to wheedle out of the OP's (like I did with philo today) one by
one to get them to lift a finger to _try_ what we suggest (philo still
hasnt' been able to tell us the unique name of QuickMemo+ but he finally
did extract it - but it took a _Lot_ of prodding on my part to get him to
do so).

You and I are extremely well educated and extremely technically competent,
even as we aren't formally educated in Android (at least I'm not).

But we're intelligent people, capable of handing things like, oh, say,
Biochemistry and Organic Chemistry, where testing note taking apps pales in
comparison in terms of comprehensive skills to a single summary page at the
end of each chapter of Morrison and Boyd, for example.

Between you and me, almost everyone save for a handful on Usenet seem to be
dumber than a rock, if you ask me, in terms of their ability to comprehend
even the simplest of the most basic of technical things.

And yet, some of them, like you, are far better at it than I am, where I
assess my intelligence at about at least normal ranges (having studied and
worked aside truly intelligent people in Ivy League schools and in Silicon
Valley startups).

But most people on this newsgroup, and certainly on the child-like Apple
newsgroups, appear to be as dumb as stones in a stream, if you ask me.

Such is life on Usenet.

> If you asked in video processing forum forum.doom9.org, what is
> the best application for H264 encoding, DVD authoring or video
> processing, you would get at first warning by moderators,
> and later at repeated occurrences eventually temporary or
> permanent ban.
> As not asking for best ones is prevention of flame wars.

Again, you're 100% technically correct, as I've been to videohelp many
times seeking a good audio editor (audacity) or a good video editor
(shotcut), or a good feature-rich video player (vlc) or a good fast video
player (MPC-BE) or a good reliable dvd burner (imgburn), or a good set of
codecs (Klite codec packs) or a good video converter (handbrake) or a good
video downloader (youtube-dl.exe), or a good codec identifier (g-spot),
etc.

Note the difference between your likely answer and my likely answer:
Q: What's a good audio editor (audacity)
Q: What's a good video editor (shotcut)
Q: What's a good feature-rich video player (vlc)
Q: What's a good fast video player (MPC-BE)
Q: What's a good reliable dvd burner (imgburn)
Q: What's a good set of codecs (Klite codec packs)
Q: What's a good video converter (handbrake)
Q: What's a good video downloader (youtube-dl.exe)
Q: What's a good codec identifier (g-spot)
etc.

Sure, you're technically correct answering all with your answer:
A: There isn't any.

But my answer at least provides "some" utility to the person asking
o And, better yet, none of my answers above would be bad answers.
--
Posted out of the goodness in my heart, to help others solve issues.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 03/01/2021 21.12, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 21:01:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>> Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
>>> automatically uploaded to Google's servers. I don't.
>>
>> Who cares? I might care, but it is pointless when many of my contacts
>> already have google accounts, use facebook, etc. I gave up.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> You bring up good points where neither one of us disagrees on the facts
> o Since we both agree on facts, we can reasonably disagree on assessments
>
> My assessment is that it sucks that my neighbors are too stupid to _not_
> upload my contact data, and that of my kids and their kids, to Google.
>
> I'm intelligent enough _not_ to upload _their_ kid's data to Google...
> o Why can't they extend the same intelligence quotient to me?

No.

You are judging intelligence based on things that are a matter of
opinion. Don't judge.


If you want that information not to be uploaded, lobby your congressman
representatives to pass laws against that. Privacy laws. We have some in
Europe. Americans typically hate those laws. You can not have both ends.

>> Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances.
>
> Wow. Really? That's like forbidding the owner to install a light bulb.
> o Here we can install anything we want (AFAIK).

No.

A badly setup gas installation is a risk of explosion that can kill
people besides yourself, and destroy property besides your own.

A badly setup light bulb endangers no one, because a bulb has been
designed to be user replaceable, and doesn't explode.


And of course we can call the gas company (or the fire brigade) if we
smell a leak, and they do come fast. Once in an apartment building we
smelled what we thought was gas. They came in minutes. Turned out it was
gasoline, not gas. Someone had dumped gasoline on the toilet, flooding
the entire tower with the leaked smell through the shared drains. They
did charge the building for the false alarm, though.

If they come after a call and find a fault with a gas installation that
was not inspected by a registered and licensed technician, you are in
trouble. If there is some type of accident with damages, the insurance
can refuse to cover, besides the fines.

>> You
>> need a certified installer and a periodical inspection for leaks and
>> compliance. They even do a test of the exhaust from the hot water flash
>> boiler to verify that it burns properly. I simply don't have the
>> equipment, and certainly I don't have the certifications.
>
> Here, in the USA, as far as I know, at least in California, you can do
> anything you want as long as it's to code. The codes are specified, so it's
> not rocket science to figure out the code.

It is not rocket science, but the law says an inspector has to inspect
it. In fact, the installation can be done by anyone, then the inspector
comes. If he finds a fault, he can be nice and repair it himself if it
is trivial, or refuse to write the certificate, charge for the visit,
and schedule another visit.

> California is strange though, as it's a nanny state.

You call them nanny states, we call it normal. We elect the politicians
to work.

>> As for other stuff, the warranty on the machines may be voided if not
>> installed by a proper technician. The washing machine I would not have
>> been able to move it myself, so... The air conditioner also needs a
>> certified technician to handle those gases, which are controlled
>> substances sometimes. Other AC units may use flammable gasses. There are
>> papers to sign.
>
> Ah. AC. I think we have rules on who can recharge and recycle A/C, but I'm
> not sure as I haven't recharged an automotive A/C in quite a long while
> myself.
>
> We certainly have rules on A/C (particularly for recycling), of that I'm
> sure; but I'm not sure if it has to be a "certified" technician (who are
> usually just high-school-educated kids who couldn't go to college, IMHO, so
> I don't put much stock in technicians myself, personally, as it's not
> rocket science if you can read the codes).

It is not simply reading the codes. It is having the tools, and also
having the experience. I can do many things, but I don't have all the
tools (nor the testers), and I certainly do not have the experience. It
takes me longer to do those things.

For instance, I do my house new wiring, but I don't like to touch the
ancient wiring⁽¹⁾. I do have the equipment and the knowledge. But it
takes me weeks of spare time, when they do it in a few hours. They
instinctively know what is each cable (all black) because it is their
trade and they know how other electricians work(ed). I don't. I do
things correctly, but I do them my own way that is different from
theirs. Similarly, it is more difficult for me to guess what they did
and why.

(1) For instance, I can not easily test where a wire goes without some
helper to test at the other end of the wire. Nor can I pull at one end
of a cable with nobody pushing at the other end.


And yes, a certified electrician has to come and sign the papers after
inspection.

There are advantages to let google keep that history that many people
like or even love.

>
> Between you and me, given you seem to comprehend the difference between
> Android aficionados versus the average Android user, if someone uses
> YouTube, I think they're just crazy, given NewPipe is just about everything
> anyone would want in a YouTube replacement app.

Again, you are judging. Don't judge.

...

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[philo]

Full name is:


QuickMemo+-com.lge.qmemoplus-800000026-v8.0.26.apk

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 22:54:18 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You are judging intelligence based on things that are a matter of
> opinion. Don't judge.

They're the ones uploading my kids' & grandkids' contacts to Google.
o Not me.

> If you want that information not to be uploaded, lobby your congressman
> representatives to pass laws against that. Privacy laws. We have some in
> Europe. Americans typically hate those laws. You can not have both ends.

I voted "yes" on this November election day proposition 24 on privacy:
o <https://votersedge.org/en/ca/ballot/election/2020-11-03/measure/proposition-24>

It wasn't as easy a call as one might think because a good law badly
written or badly implemented is not a good law in the end.

So it was a judgment call:
a. Should I vote for privacy, or,
b. Should I opt to not increase the government bureaucracy

I worried about this creation of an entirely new government bureaucracy,
which, let's face it, only the largest states in America can pull it off,
where California has used its clout in the past (e.g., in California you
can only buy a vehicle certified for California, which no other state can
get away with because cars happen to have wheels ... just ask Jim Florio in
NJ what happened when he tried a similar trick on the sale of trucks).

Whether I like it or not, the bill passed
o 9,384,125 votes yes (56.2%)
o 7,305,026 votes no (43.8%)

Where I'd prefer "big decisions" be forced to earn a super majority
o But it's law which the California lawmakers can't stop

Note: In California, the "people" get to make the laws when/if they want
o This is often abused by well funded corporations though

>>> Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances.
>>
>> Wow. Really? That's like forbidding the owner to install a light bulb.
>> o Here we can install anything we want (AFAIK).
>
> No.
>
> A badly setup gas installation is a risk of explosion that can kill
> people besides yourself, and destroy property besides your own.

Carlos,
Don't be like Poutnik and hand me pure platitudes
o If I install an appliance to code - the appliance is safe.

Whether you like facts or not, the fact is still a fact.
o If I install a hot water heater to code (and I've done it many times)
then it's safe.

Whether you think it's not safe or not is immaterial.
o If it's to code, it's safe.

Do I sound like someone who doesn't know what the codes are?
o Do you think they _hide_ the codes from us in America?

It doesn't work the way you _wish_ it would work, Carlos.
o Just because you're too scared to do something doesn't make it unsafe.

It just means you're too scared to do it.
o Here, in America, most of us aren't scared to do anything.

It's partly what makes us Americans, Carlos.
o Our spirit is we can do whatever we want to do, Carlos.

And we do.

> A badly setup light bulb endangers no one, because a bulb has been
> designed to be user replaceable, and doesn't explode.

Agreed.

> And of course we can call the gas company (or the fire brigade) if we
> smell a leak, and they do come fast. Once in an apartment building we
> smelled what we thought was gas. They came in minutes. Turned out it was
> gasoline, not gas. Someone had dumped gasoline on the toilet, flooding
> the entire tower with the leaked smell through the shared drains. They
> did charge the building for the false alarm, though.

Hmmm... In the Silicon Valley we have pretty blue and white roadside signs
painted almost everywhere saying that the water drains to the bay so please
don't dump stuff into the drainage system. Particularly stuff like benzene.

Up here, in the mountains, every one of us has our own well and septic
system, so we wouldn't think of dumping gasoline into the drainage system.

We have places to recycle used oil, where, I've never been refused when I
bring a container of old motor oil to the stores that I bought the original
oil (I think it's a law they must accept not only the old oil but also the
old oil filter but I'm not sure about that).

And the recycling gives us five (yes, five) bins each of the recycling
which is ten bins total (five for household recycling and five for
landscape recycling) where these wheeled bins come up to your armpits.

Of course, they charge us over $100 every three months for the one puny
gray trash bin (I think it's 20 gallons?) so they get us in the end. :)

> If they come after a call and find a fault with a gas installation that
> was not inspected by a registered and licensed technician, you are in
> trouble. If there is some type of accident with damages, the insurance
> can refuse to cover, besides the fines.

What if it's 100% to the code?

> It is not rocket science, but the law says an inspector has to inspect
> it. In fact, the installation can be done by anyone, then the inspector
> comes. If he finds a fault, he can be nice and repair it himself if it
> is trivial, or refuse to write the certificate, charge for the visit,
> and schedule another visit.

I suspect it's similar here for the devices which _require_ a permit.
o Hell, we can't even substantially re-roof a house here without one.

But I suspect the permit is more of a tax than anything else.

>> California is strange though, as it's a nanny state.
>
> You call them nanny states, we call it normal. We elect the politicians
> to work.

I'm not a native Californian, as I grew up in the upper northeast.
o The native Californians are, IMHO, morons.

They trust government.
o I don't.

> It is not simply reading the codes. It is having the tools, and also
> having the experience. I can do many things, but I don't have all the
> tools (nor the testers), and I certainly do not have the experience. It
> takes me longer to do those things.

The tools are, almost always, free, in the sense that usually you can
re-use them for the rest of your life.

As an example, my first brake job, oh, when was that, probably in the early
sixties, I needed jack stands and a floor jack, which I'm still using
today.

The first time I mounted a car tire, I had to buy a tire mounting tool, and
then a bead breaker, and then a static balancer, which cost, oh, about $300
or so, but I've done scores of tires since, such that the tools long ago
paid for themselves such that mounting & balancing tires is free:
o Questions about mounting & balancing new LT tires on new steel rims
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.autos.tech/J5-7TxdDpBw>
o Clare - are smaller car tires easier to balance than SUV tires?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.home.repair/So4om4fLtmI>
o Clare, Xeno.... did you ever have a batch of tires that just wouldn't seal after the final bead?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.autos.tech/n4bqsqo6ObY>

Even the gas cans paid for themselves, as a single trip to the gas station
for a retired person is 30 miles, which, oh, say, at 30 miles to a gallon
(to make the math easy) is three or four bucks each trip just in gas.

When I replaced a clutch, they said it would be around twelve hundred
bucks, so I bought the clutch plate & diaphragm, throw out bearing, main
bearing, flywheel, and transmission seals for, oh, about $300 or so and
then I had to buy a transmission jack, for another $250. Plus a few 30 inch
extensions to my 1/2 inch sockets, for a total of, oh, say, about half of
what it would have cost to pay someone else to replace that SUV clutch.
o Clutch bolts and locktite
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.autos.tech/c/wEVm6kdNo2o/>

> For instance, I do my house new wiring, but I don't like to touch the
> ancient wiring⁽¹⁾. I do have the equipment and the knowledge. But it
> takes me weeks of spare time, when they do it in a few hours.

Yes but. Do they do a good job?

I always liken your argument to the one about cleaning toilets.
o Sure, they clean them fast - but do they care about the results?

> They
> instinctively know what is each cable (all black) because it is their
> trade and they know how other electricians work(ed). I don't. I do
> things correctly, but I do them my own way that is different from
> theirs. Similarly, it is more difficult for me to guess what they did
> and why.

Out here, we have codes.
o Black is hot
o White is neutral
o Bare or green is ground

Even the bolts are often color coded
o Brass is hot
o Silvered is neutral
o Green is ground

We also have red & blue for special situations (e.g., 3-way switches).

> (1) For instance, I can not easily test where a wire goes without some
> helper to test at the other end of the wire. Nor can I pull at one end
> of a cable with nobody pushing at the other end.

That's why we all have Fluke meters.

> And yes, a certified electrician has to come and sign the papers after
> inspection.

We have to wire to code.
o AFAIK, it doesn't matter who does the wiring, as long as it's to code.

Home wiring is about as easy a home-repair task there is.
o If that's too complex, then I understand you point of view.

But here we can do our own wiring & plumbing & car repairs.

>> Just so you know, NewPipe can be set to save its own YouTube history
>> o That way your history isn't known to Google (AFAIK)
>
> There are advantages to let google keep that history that many people
> like or even love.

OK. But there are disadvantages also (mostly to your privacy).

> Again, you are judging. Don't judge.

I don't mind ignorance as much as I mind stupidity.
o Ignorance is simply not knowing that NewPipe exists
o Stupidity is knowing that, and yet still watching commercials on YouTube

Same with people who don't know Android doesn't need to be set to a Google
Account, or with people who don't know that Google Maps tracks them
everywhere.

Ignorance can be fixed; stupidity cannot.
--
Usenet allows those with different points of view to exchange ideas.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:44:20 -0600, philo wrote:

> Full name is:
> QuickMemo+-com.lge.qmemoplus-800000026-v8.0.26.apk

That helps a lot.

o The unique name of the app is, perhaps <com.lge.qmemoplus>
as per:
o what is com.lge.qmemoplus
<https://forums.androidcentral.com/ask-question/892398-what-com-lge-qmemoplus.html>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/backup-all-quickmemo-notes.3903280/>
<https://www.lg.com/us/mobile-phones/VS930/JB/Userguide/basics_QuickMemo.html>

Let's see if that's on Google Play:
o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=com.lge.qmemoplus&c=apps>

It didn't seem to be there, but other hits were found on the net:
o How to Use QuickMemo+ on Your LG G4
<https://www.verizon.com/support/lg-g4-quick-memo-plus-video/>

You can download a variety of versions off of Google Play, but I wouldn't:
o LG QuickMemo+ 7.0.27 (Android 8.0+) By LG Electronics, Inc.
<https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/lgelectronics/quickmemo/quickmemo-7-0-27-release/quickmemo-7-0-27-android-apk-download/>

At this point in time, you're all set.
o You can copy that APK to any other Android phone to install

If it won't install, it's only one of two reasons (both rare):
a. LG designed the app to only work on one phone type
b. LG designed the phone to not work on the later Android releases

When you doubleclick on the APK on another phone, it's called "sideloading"
o Pretty much you can _trust_ the app if it was pre-installed by LG.

o How to sideload an APK or install an Android app from outside the Play Store
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-sideload-an-apk/>

o How to safely sideload apps on your Android device
<https://phandroid.com/2020/08/10/how-to-sideload-apps/>

o How to Sideload Apps on Android
<https://www.howtogeek.com/313433/how-to-sideload-apps-on-android/>

o Android 101: How to Install an APK on Android (Sideloading Apps)
<https://www.thecustomdroid.com/how-to-install-apk-on-android/>

Note I didn't read any of those 'cuz I know how to sideload; but also
because most of those tutorials spend 99.9% of their time worrying about
the safety of the APK where in your case, you're pretty safe if it was
an LG app that LG pre-installed on your phone (IMHO).
--
You only need to read one (they'll all likely say the exact same thing).

[Arlen Holder]

This "philo" is a sock of "micky" as far as I can tell.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/PE2vt6TTBK4/m/7N1lhQv4CQAJ>

Until I realized he was the same infantile troll of "micky", I was
wondering who was that stupid, such that he threw fabricated hurdles into
everything he said, and he proved absolutely nothing, and he didn't seem to
do any work in any post.

TO me, it seemed as if he was a credibility troll, just trying to earn a
seat at the Android table, until he could then infest this newsgroup with
his inevitable infantile political crap like he does on the REPAIR ng.

Given this "philo" is a sock of "micky", I suggest we have no further
contact with it.
--
I care about this newsgroup by defending against the infantile trolls.

[Arlen Holder]

Update:

I spent a couple of hours trying to "help" this infantile "philo" troll
o Where I was wondering with every post why it wasn't doing anything

It was just throwing up hurdle after hurdle after hurdle...
o None of which made any sense (it was simply fabricating everything)

And I wasted my valuable time faithfully trying to help it.
o Fucking worthless pieces of shit these "philo" trolls (a "micky" sock)

Here are just _some_ of the many infantile political trolls of this "philo"
sock, where you'll note he posts to the same threads as the "micky" sock,
often within seconds...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/cCNm2fFZ/philo01.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XNwxFDvv/philo02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YqR3DGYK/philo03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QdMq28JB/philo04.jpg>

Look at the similarity with its "micky" "T" and "Bob F." socks:
o micky <https://i.postimg.cc/4Nyd369x/micky01.jpg>
o T: <https://i.postimg.cc/52nK78Ph/Troll-Named-T.jpg>
o Bob F <https://i.postimg.cc/wvff63gX/bobf01.jpg>

[Libor Striz]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> Wrote in message:

> ......

Arlen,

as you have read the very beginning and the very end of the post,
and also the short P.S. post,
you know that all depends on the intended or implied meaning of best.

If the OP means best=recommendation, it is OK.
If the OP means best=comparative pseudoobjective evaluation, it is
not so OK.

The same for the readers.
Asking for best is understood by some people reasonably and they
provide their recommendations ( as I did as well
).
But some people are willing to argument for long hours, if the
best is A or B or C.

Part of answering is teaching asking proper questions.
The good example are the site policies of many StackExchange Q/A sites
where many questions are rejected
until they are improved.
If a child asks how many wolves live in a herd, a parent corrects
the child wolves live in packs.
If an OP asks for a recommended app, it is clear what it means.

Be careful when making statements using always or never, as such a
statement is frequently false.
( Note that I have not said always ).

Using good instead of best was kind of unfair,
as a subjective list of "good applications" is semantically very
closed to a list of "recommended applications".

Saying that, a question "What is a good application for purpose
X" is very OK with me
and I would provide several, if I was familiar with them

----

BTW, even if all people on the Earth had said NewPipe is the best
YT client for viewing YT videos ( without mentioning this
purpose, Google would say it is not good for their business
model, so not the best), then it is still not a property of the
application, but of the relation of people to it.

One can also say the best client for watching YT videos is VLC or
other player, using NP just as a downloader. :-).
This I do.

It would have to be specified as an online viewer category.
Then I would consider NP as the best online YT viewer.

BTW, Happy New Year 2021.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:37:14 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> all depends on the intended or implied meaning of best.

Hi Poutnik,

I agree.
o I never disagree with a sensible logical argument.

> If the OP means best=recommendation, it is OK.
> If the OP means best=comparative pseudoobjective evaluation, it is
> not so OK.

OK. I won't disagree with any logical viewpoint.
o All we really know is that the OP only asked for _simple_.

That's why my first suggestion was the note pad from Simple Mobile Tools:
o <https://www.simplemobiletools.com/>

> The same for the readers.
> Asking for best is understood by some people reasonably and they
> provide their recommendations ( as I did as well
> ).
> But some people are willing to argument for long hours, if the
> best is A or B or C.

Understood.

That's why I gave the OP the URL, as always, to be purposefully helpful:
o <https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/Simple-Notes>

> Part of answering is teaching asking proper questions.

Hmmmm... you and I are very well educated...
o IMHO, most people who post to Usenet are not.

Just look at the subject line, for example...
o Where mine, for example, are more like that of a peer-reviewed paper

But this subject line is just "Note pad", and that's it.
o You can't make a rock intelligent.

> The good example are the site policies of many StackExchange Q/A sites
> where many questions are rejected until they are improved.

Well, we "could" implement that policy here on c.m.a, but it would be work.
o As I said, most people who post have far less education than we do.

Worse, most appear to be rather stupid, if you ask me.
o That's two strikes, where the third is that they're rather lazy.

So that's three strikes... where I think there's no way to fix them.
o Sadly to say.

> If a child asks how many wolves live in a herd, a parent corrects
> the child wolves live in packs.
> If an OP asks for a recommended app, it is clear what it means.

What do you think of how I posed my query for file explorers recently?
o Survey of free ad free Android file explorer apps you use & why you like them
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/SSOowSdK-8g>

I listed in the title the key requirements
o In the body, I listed over a score of useful functions, in priority order

Is _that_ how you'd suggest an _intelligent_ well-educated person would ask
the question?

> Be careful when making statements using always or never, as such a
> statement is frequently false. ( Note that I have not said always ).

Yes. But.
o Usenet is informal.

IMHO, when we're informally speaking, we can get away with always & never.

If you and I were writing a legal contract, then we couldn't use those
words if they weren't explicitly correctly used, but this isn't a contract,
nor would it be readable by the other people on this ng if it were written
that way.

Likewise, Usenet isn't Morrison & Boyd such that our casual conversation
here doesn't have the accuracy of Lehninger's Principles of Biochemistry.

If we wrote everything like a textbook, you and I, who are well educated,
would understand everything, but we'd leave everyone else in the dust.

> Using good instead of best was kind of unfair,
> as a subjective list of "good applications" is semantically very
> closed to a list of "recommended applications".

I agree, e.g., this is a thread of mine from a while ago:
o What's a good free desktop screen recorder?
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/PmJ0dn3gots/>

I gave the handful of specific requirements in the body of the request.
o Which is pretty much how I structure a question on Usenet, such as...

o What free login free ad free local traffic apps & web shortcuts are in your homescreen navigation folder
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Dfy3UZL7JHI>

The key requirements are placed in the subject line.
o And more detailed requirements are often described further in the body.

> Saying that, a question "What is a good application for purpose
> X" is very OK with me
> and I would provide several, if I was familiar with them

What do you think of the title of this thread, opened a month or so ago?
o Recommended decent freeware PDF viewer / reader for Android devices?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/2vxhkQ_SgOc>

>
> BTW, even if all people on the Earth had said NewPipe is the best
> YT client for viewing YT videos ( without mentioning this
> purpose, Google would say it is not good for their business
> model, so not the best), then it is still not a property of the
> application, but of the relation of people to it.

Um... er... ok.
o As any logical sensible person would, I don't disagree with logic.

Given we're both highly educated & intelligent, we both must recognize
there are always _plenty_ of ways to get the job done, e.g., if all we
wanted was the "audio" from a YouTube, we could do this (which I wrote):
o Tutorial using Audacity 2.4.2 to record Windows web browser streaming audio to MP3
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/-2_a3415BUQ/>

> One can also say the best client for watching YT videos is VLC or
> other player, using NP just as a downloader. :-).
> This I do.

I agree with you that downloading a YouTube video also works fine.
o I do it all the time.

I have a thread for how to _easily_ download YouTube to watch on VLC:
o Quick tutorial for yet another easy method to download youtube video using Windows freeware (Secure browser & YouTube-dl.exe & NewPipe)
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/OXj3JqyTfh8>

The one thing I will _not_ do though, is suffer advertisements.
o Almost no app stays on my system if it hands me even a single ad.

o Unfortunately, on iOS, you're kind of stuck with advertisements: Searching/Viewing/Subscribing/Downloading/Stripping/etc. YouTube on iOS using a single free YouTube-like non-browser app with less intrusive advertisements
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/S0AJhAOKr3g/>

WHich is one (of many) pieces of evidence that iOS is a toy OS.
o IMHO

> It would have to be specified as an online viewer category.
> Then I would consider NP as the best online YT viewer.

Once the YouTube video is downloaded, there are plenty of ways to play it
but sometimes I have to modify it, e.g., rotate it 90 degrees, where, as
you might expect, I've written a tutorial for that too:
o Tutorial to rotate an entire cellphone video 90 degrees in Shotcut freeware
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/rEZ07Z75cU0/>
--
The advantage of Usenet is we get different ideas from everyone.

[Libor Striz]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> Wrote in message:

To summarize my opinion of your thread subjects:

Even if we often disagree with our personal criteria for app
requirements, what is OK and natural,
I think your subjects are formulated very well.

Ability of asking good questions is as much important as ability
to write good answers.

The important part of it is the title/subject formulation.
In the StackExchange context, I often write a comment like

"Avoid titles saying everything and titles saying nothing."

or

"Question titles are like book titles. They distinguish questions
from other questions, give hint about the content, but do not say
the full story."

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>
> --
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