Re: Digest for boston-rubygroup@googlegroups.com - 13 Messages in 3 Topics

[Daniel Cohen]

http://www.railsmentors.org/

On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:37 PM, boston-rubyg...@googlegroups.com wrote:

  Today's Topic Summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/boston-rubygroup/topics

• boston.rb certification [10 Updates]
• Hackfest for those of us west of the city [2 Updates]
• Free Ruby and Rails Training June 17 & 24 and July 1 & 8 (Albany, NY) [1 Update]

 Topic: boston.rb certification

Chris Houhoulis <chouh...@comcast.net> Jun 10 10:26AM -0400 ^

 
Hi all. A friend from out of town came with me to this week's meeting.
He knows the group is interested in and concerned about lacking enough
"talent" to supply employers. (Thanks, Greg, for clarifying what kind
of talent was up for discussion).
 
Yet, I and many others -- Rails developers that are beginner to
intermediate level -- have the opposite experience: we're having a very
hard time finding jobs. Employers seem to be looking for people with
more experience, previous professional Rails work, better github
codebases, etc.
 
An idea*: Boston.rb could define a "certification track". A list of
steps that candidates could follow to become "Boston.rb-certified".
 
Boston.rb members could vet the code, or verify the candidate's
completion of each task ("worked well with others", "learned quickly",
"used git appropriately in a group project", etc.)
 
The end result would be:
 
- the group could vouch for the person.
- the person would have an attractive and balanced portfolio.
 
Providing general guidelines is simple: "Learn stuff, develop some apps,
push them onto heroku, come to meetings & hackfests, post code on
github, and contribute to an open-source project."
 
But a defined certification track would help candidates allocate their
time**, choose projects wisely, and prove their skills.
 
For candidates, knowing there are specific people they can turn to for a
little guidance along the way would help too.
 
What do you think?
 
Chris
 
* A bunch of people helped formulate this idea at the end of the
meeting Tuesday.
 
** For example: I myself have spent too much time on too many projects
that don't impress employers. Learning routing inside and out in Rails
2.2, and demonstrating heavy tweakage, was pretty useless when I could
have been learning more efficient and buzz-worthy ways to do the same
thing -- Rack, named scopes, Rails 2.3 (and Rails 3) routing, or
probably 20 other things I don't even know about.


 

Dan Croak <dcr...@thoughtbot.com> Jun 10 01:40PM -0400 ^

 
There was suggestion of a mentor-protege program that might accomplish
the same goals.
 
A more experienced developer is paired with someone less experienced,
guides them to the right resources for learning, helps review code,
suggests ways to improve your Github codebases, and maybe make
introductions for jobs when the time is right.
 
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Chris Houhoulis


 

Chris Maxwell <cmax...@ojala.com> Jun 10 01:59PM -0400 ^

 
A mentor-protege program? Sounds great. Where do I sign up!? (as a protege)
 
Chris
 
 


 

Michael Breen <har...@gmail.com> Jun 10 02:05PM -0400 ^

 
Hi Chris,
 
I think this is a good idea but I'd be very careful about using the word "certification". The Rails community at large has not been that receptive to that word probably due to it's use in the MS and Java communities.
 
Good luck.
Mike
 
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Chris Houhoulis wrote:
 


 

Wyatt Greene <techi...@gmail.com> Jun 10 02:07PM -0400 ^

 
I think that's an excellent idea, Dan.
 
Chris, you bring up a good point. If there are Rails developers
looking for work and people are having a hard time hiring Rails
developers then we've got a problem. I can think of three causes:
 
Not Knowing
 
Programmer A wants a job and employer B wants to hire, but they just
don't know about each other. As a programmer, then, you have to make
yourself findable. Some good ways to do this are to be an active
participant in Bostonrb and other tech meetups, have a blog, get on
twitter, put yourself on workingwithrails.com (and mark yourself as
available for hire!), get on LinkedIn, etc. It might be nice to have
a section on bostonrb.org that lists Rails devs who are looking for
side projects and contract work.
 
Information Asymmetry
 
You may know that you're a top-notch programmer, but how does someone
hiring you know that? How do they distinguish you from someone who
can't deliver? I would recommend reading chapter five of The
Undercover Economist because it does a good job of explaining how
information asymmetry can destroy a market.
 
Lack of Skill
 
Finally, the reason a dev is not hired may be that their skills need
more sharpening.
 
I think you're on to something with the idea of certification, Chris,
but I think certification per se wouldn't work. Ideally it would be a
way to signal to the market that I'm a qualified Rails dev. In
practice, the technology moves so fast that it would be hard to do.
 
I think probably the best analog to a certification would be writing a
Rails app. It would be sort of a rite-of-passage for a dev to code
and launch their own Rails app from the ground up, by yourself. Of
course they should start by pair programming or otherwise getting help
building their first couple of Rails apps in order to accelerate the
learning, but the eventual goal would be to have a Rails app they
could show off. Now they'd have a portfolio piece.
 
The mentor-protege program could help a beginner get to the point
where they can code a Rails app on their own. A bostonrb wiki could
also be helpful as it could contain resources and tips for people
getting started, kind of like the "certification track" you mentioned.
 
--Wyatt
 
 
On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Dan Croak wrote:
 


 

Dan Croak <dcr...@thoughtbot.com> Jun 10 02:10PM -0400 ^

 

> I think that's an excellent idea, Dan.
 
Not my idea! I'll let the masterminds reveal themselves and any other
details they were thinking about.


 

Keenan Brock <kee...@thebrocks.net> Jun 10 03:17PM -0400 ^

 
Hi Chris,
 
This reminds me a little of the controversy around Obie Fernandez:
http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2009/02/rails-maturity-model.html
 
 
As a developer it is very attractive: Do these steps to improve.
As an employer, it is very attractive: This person has the skills I want.
 
And every time I look at http://workingwithrails.com/ , I want to go and do the things that they have in their checklist.
Not necessarily to have a full checklist, but because they are good and fun to do.
So for some, it may be a good motivator.
 
 
Lawyers, Doctors, Accountants, and many other professions have certifications, tests, and or checklists.
Massage Therapists need to take a certain amount of training a year.
Every profession needs something like this.
 
 
But the implementation is a little tricky and some people react strongly to this.
Schools are in the middle of trying to figure this out. Either with teacher certification, tenure, student testing, or college certification.
 
 
I remember when the Java Certification came out. Some people seemed to focus on the paper and not the programming.
College is similar - just get the diploma.
 
So people react - cause they don't want to take tests, they just want to learn and have fun.
 
 
Mentorship, a checklist, a full fledge certification - they all seem good ways for us to take control, help others, and learn.
And different people learn in different ways.
 
Seems like a good opportunity for a github / heroku / twitter app.
 
 
--Keenan
 
PS We could have sub cerfications like the hashrocket stack or thoughtbot stack.
 
 
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Chris Houhoulis wrote:
 


 

Wyatt Greene <techi...@gmail.com> Jun 10 03:36PM -0400 ^

 
Also, certifications can easily backfire. I think Chris' goal is to
lower the barrier to entry for new Rails developers.
 
In chapter one of The Undercover Economist (you can tell I like that
book :) Tim Harford talks about "green belt", or artificial barriers
to entry that keep supply low. This is in reference to legislation
that discourages development in a wide area of land around a city.
This has the effect of driving the price of rent in the city higher
than it normally would be. Here's a quote from the book:
 
"Landlords and executives are not the only people who like to avoid
competition and who like to enjoy monopoly rents. Trade unions, lobby
groups, people studying for a professional qualification, and even
national governments like them too. Every day people all around us
are trying to avoid competition or reap the rewards of others who have
succeeded in doing so."
 
I could see a scenario where the certification turns into a barrier
that "elite" Rails programmers erect around themselves and exacerbate
the problem.
 
You also have the problem of who develops the certification? There
will always be a gap between what a certification claims a person can
do and what the person can actually do. A conflict of interest of
those who are developing the certification could make this gap wider.
And the people best qualified to come up with a certification may not
have any incentive to do so.
 
I think the idea of certification is attractive, but it's very hard to
execute well.
 
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Keenan Brock wrote:
 


 

Ryan Angilly <ry...@angilly.com> Jun 10 03:48PM -0400 ^

 
Didn't read all the responses, so accept my apologies if this is
repeating someone:
 
My initial reaction is that if you can't find work because you're too
inexperienced, it's because you're too inexperienced. :)
 
Instead of doing it on your own, or going down the
mentorship/certification track, maybe you should look into
subcontracting for established independents and smaller firms. Dan
Pickett, for example, has Enlight Solutions. What other small
firms/teams/independents are out there? Are you guys & gals looking
for more hands?
 
Perhaps we need some kind of marketplace for senior developers to find
junior developers and vice versa.
 
$0.02 from someone working instead of being at RailsConf,
-Ryan
 
 


 

Charles M Magid <cmm...@gmail.com> Jun 10 01:37PM -0700 ^

 
Is there a way to motivate employer's to create more contract to hire
positions for n00bs? I know of one Bostonrber who tried this and got
burnt. Is there a way to mitigate the risk and at the same time
encourage employers to do it? I think it is in the Ruby communities
interest to try.
 
We want more companies moving towards Ruby not away. Having worked
for a company that did Smalltalk and couldn't find enough programmers
to meet their demand and consequently dropping that development effort
I am particularly sensitive to this issue. The company did a survey
and found the number of colleges teaching intro courses using
Smalltalk was much less then 1%. Those issues, plus lack of
interoperability, motivated their move away from Smalltalk and to
Java. I hope history does not repeat itself with Ruby.
 
I think certification, in the spirit of Sun's Java Certification,
would not be good for this dynamic a community, for reasons mentioned
by others. On the other hand it would be nice if a conscientious MIT
Grad. like Chris could get a job doing Ruby after experimenting with
it for a couple of years.
 
ITA is a company which requires an applicant to complete one of the
programming assignments on their website when applying for a
position. I think it would help if other potential Ruby on Rails
employers used this type of pre-qualifying measure to screen n00bs for
paid internships. That would provide more fodder for contract to
hire positions as well. Employers would come up with the specific set
of skills that they are most interested in.
 
BTW Wyatt can I borrow your copy of the Undercover Economist?
 


 

 Topic: Hackfest for those of us west of the city

Michael Breen <har...@gmail.com> Jun 10 07:31AM -0400 ^

 
Hey everyone,
 
So it sounds like Panera[1] is the winner. Now on to the really hard part: picking the day/time. I'd love to really shake things up and have a breakfast or lunch hackfest but I realize that won't work for most people. So how about Thursday the 17th at ??:?? am/pm (please feel to suggest day/time)?
 
Best,
Mike
 
[1] http://is.gd/cK08m
 
On May 27, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Pat Shaughnessy wrote:
 


 

Ryan Angilly <ry...@angilly.com> Jun 10 01:02PM -0400 ^

 
7pm?
 


 

 Topic: Free Ruby and Rails Training June 17 & 24 and July 1 & 8 (Albany, NY)

Mark Menard <mark.me...@gmail.com> Jun 09 07:43PM -0700 ^

 
Due to great demand I'm pleased to announce that I will be doing a
second four session training series on Ruby and Rails. Get your
reservations in fast four spots have already been taken.
 
If you know anyone in the Albany, NY or Western Massachusetts area who
would be interested please let them know.
 
When: Thursdays June 17 & 24 and July 1 & 8
Start: 6:00 PM
End: 9:00 PM
Where: ITT Tech, 13 Airline Drive, Albany, NY near the Albany Airport
Cost: FREE
 
RSVP to: Mark Menard at ma...@mjm.net or 518.369.7356
 
The series will cover Ruby and Rails with the goal of attendees being
able to create basic Ruby on Rails apps by the end of the series.
 
The series will cover:
 
* Getting Ruby and Rails running on your system (Windows, Ubuntu or OS
X)
* Introduction to Ruby for Non-Rubyists
* Introduction to Rails
* Rails MVC Architecture: ActiveRecord, ActionController and
ActionView
* Deploying your Rails Apps to Heroku
* Overview of JRuby for Java and IronRuby for .Net
 
Prerequisites:
 
* Experience building web applications in a previous language and/or
framework.
* Understanding of basic object oriented programming (classes,
objects, methods, etc.).
* A laptop with Ruby and Rails installed and running. Directions for
setup are available online.
 
Please pass this information to anyone you think would be interested.
I'd like to see if we can get non-Rubyists there so we can expose them
to Ruby and Rails. If you work for a company please pass this onto the
training person/manager/enthusiast in your organization. If you are on
another developer group list please pass this onto those lists.


 

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