對許重義擬提告李中志的感想 : Who should take action on attacker?

[Luby Liao]

許重義教授問: Who should take action on attacker?

It depends.  當 BATA 公然對人(不只是蔡英文) 使用文字暴力, everyone should speak up, especially for someone who has expressed outrage against bullying.  This is basic ethics.

Next time when you see people being robbed or raped, I hope you do not just watch.

許重義教授 is right.  I am out of line to have raised the question of whether he freely uses double standards.

I feel sorry that I have caused people distress, but apparently did not accomplish anything.

I apologize, Luby

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:52 PM, 許重義Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Luby,

Please get it straight here.  I have been responding to Prof. Li on his personal attacks on me.  If IW Tsai feels that any comment constitutes a personal attack on her, it is IW Tsai's prerogative to take actions on the attacker(s). Why you assign her job to me?

Chung Hsu

2015-02-26 15:37 GMT+08:00 Luby Liao <luby...@gmail.com>:

Kuochih, 我從未要求許重義教授去做言論警察.  

我只是好奇為什麼他對李中志的文字敏感到要提告, 

但對 BATA 比李中志更可怕的言論卻一點感覺沒有.  

我的原文是

為什麼 BATA毫無停歇的人身攻擊 (蔡媽媽, 空心,
 菜, 骯髒, 可恥, 風騷 ...) 你都看不到, 但當李中志說 撒嬌,
 自戀的老頭, 你卻感覺到了.

To the above examples of BATA insults, we can now add

join terrorists to praise the Tsai goddess  ??
        Tsai gangs: [與中國合併] 的公投 is democracy

After the most recent message from Johnson Wang. 

Kuochih went on:

Lube should blame himself for failing his duty as the monitor/ editor of ILT to prevent 李中志from using 人身攻擊 words on Prof. Hsu.

但李中志的 message 據我所知並未 post 在 iLoveTW 上.

Kuochih 又說:

The editors should do the job to take care of  人身攻擊 violation

 

Did Allen Kuo, the BATA Editor do the job?

Cheers, Luby

=====

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:38 PM, kuochih hong <kuoh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lube has no right to ask Prof. 許重義to serve as a police to charge others who abused the freedom of speech.  Pro. Hsu was right to charge 李中志who 人身攻擊 Prof. Hsu.  Lube should blame himself for failing his duty as the monitor/ editor of ILT to prevent 李中志from using 人身攻擊 words on Prof. Hsu.

We discuss issues in the forums, but are not the policemen.  The editors should do the job to take care of  人身攻擊 violation

KC

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/25/15, Luby Liao <luby...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [BATA] 對許重義擬提告李中志的感想
 To: "許重義Chung Hsu" <hsucy...@gmail.com>
 Cc: "bay-area taiwanese" <bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com>, "i_love_taiwan" <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, "許重義" <hsucy...@yahoo.com>
 Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 10:18 PM

 許教授,
 你我都同意人身攻擊是不對的.
  但我不理解的是: 為什麼 BATA
 毫無停歇的人身攻擊 (蔡媽媽, 空心,
 菜, 骯髒, 可恥, 風騷
 ...) 你都看不到, 但當李中志說 撒嬌,
 自戀的老頭, 你卻感覺到了.
  是不是你選擇性地認為: BATA
 做人身攻擊是 OK 的, 但李中志就不可以?
 當你說民進黨祗是另一個國民黨,  甚至與共產黨有何不同!請你拿出事實來支持你的論述.說民進黨共產黨有何不同,
 不只是一個知識份子絶不該做的巔倒是非, 這比李中志的
 abusive language 嚴重得多了!

 Cheers, Luby

 =====
 On Wed, Feb 25, 2015
 at 9:49 PM, 許重義Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com>
 wrote:

 Dear Luby,
 When reading comments shared among those in the
 networks (BATA, ILT, and others), please try to make a
 distinction between those addressing issue vs. those making
 personal attacks. If critiques are directed at a party or
 its policies, whether the comments are right or wrong can be
 debated based on supporting information . We can ask harsh
 questions on policies, goals set by IW Tsai or political
 actions she has taken because these items will affect the
 nation and its citizens if she is elected the President of
 Taiwan. However, the critiques can NOT
 be directed at IW Tsai herself.
 Please refer to Prof. Li's comments detailed
 in my reply to Patrick Huang in the attached file if you or
 other members within the networks care to read how Prof. Li
 made abusive verbal insults.  As the leader of the ILT
 network, you certainly understand better than I the
 difference between critical remarks on policies, strategies
 or issues of national interest vs. those directed at a
 person.  
 In reference to freedom of speech in Taiwan, we
 can yell at the President in front of the Presidential
 Palace to protest certain national policies. However, we
 cannot do character assassination. Are Prof. Li's
 remarks direct at the issues I raised or on me personally?

 Let's elevate the level of BATA, ILT and
 other Taiwanese/Taiwanese American networks to a scholarly
 level, not street fight.  
 With best wishes,
 Chung Hsu
 2015-02-25 10:39
 GMT+08:00 Luby Liao <luby...@gmail.com>:
 許重義準備告李中志,
 是因為 李中志 說他撒嬌,
 影射他是自戀的老頭,
 etc.我一再地反對李中志這樣的用詞,
 因為這是我們不敢在系務會議上對同事講的話. 
 2015-02-21, 許重義寫道:
 I
 hope we all settle down to discuss issues important for
 Taiwan.  Let's address issues of national interests,
 not personal.  Let's address the issues in which a
 person may be referred to.  However,we should try to avoid
 personal attack.
 We are all well educated and live in civilized societies. 
 We are all for a better Taiwan and can
 have debate in
 a scholarly manner but not in street
 fight.
 我問他:
 許教授,
 依你的看法, BATA Editor Allen Kuo 這麼說
 =====
 2012
 時很明顯已有蔡媽媽的骯髒記錄. 合理推測,
 2016 變本加厲, 所以才會有初選只有 1
 人參選的可恥狀態. 
 =====
 是不是 Scholarly?
  算不算 debate?
 他的答覆是:
 Dear Luby, I agree
 with you that we need to be careful in using appropriate
 term on qualifications of presidential qualifications. I
 believe most , if not all, suspected alteration of DPP
 primary rules have been clarified. constructive critiques on
 the merit of IW Tsai as the DPP candidate have to be based
 on facts not making simple-minded slogan such as bring down
 IW Tsai without solid argument and adequate justification.
 We are all for better Taiwan and are working to assist in
 improving qualifications of presidential candidates. if is
 simplistic call or action to bring down this and that
 candidate. with best wishes,
 chung 
 當李中志說許重義撒嬌,
 影射他是自戀的老頭,
 他就要提告.  但許重義每天讀 BATA,
 裏面充斥著最不堪的髒話像: 空心菜, 蔡媽媽, 骯髒, 可恥...,
 他卻一點感覺沒有.
 論語言的不合適, 李中志的較可怕,
 還是 BATA的?
 最後再舉一例.  2015-02-19 20:20 GMT+08:00
 許重義 Chung Hsu wrote:
 民進黨總統候選人提名過程，黨內派系權力、利益交換的動作，已逐漸浮出檯面，民進黨祗是另一個國民黨的現象，也逐漸呈現。
  ...
 陳致中, 一位違反民進黨黨紀，已被開除黨籍的非民進黨黨員，有何資格出來阻礙一位民進黨黨員領表參與民進黨總統候選人初選?  民進黨的官二代，與國民黨，甚至共產黨有何不同?
 你我今天在台灣能夠有一些民主自由,
 能夠𣈱所欲言, 不怕被迫害 全拜民進黨之賜.
  但許重義居然說 民進黨祗是另一個國民黨,  甚至與共產黨有何不同!
 如果許重義真的告李中志,
 民進黨更應該告許重義.
 Cheers,
 Luby
 =====
 On Tue, Feb 24, 2015
 at 3:37 PM, 許重義 Chung Hsu: <hsucy...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 Dear
 Patrick,
 Your remarks
 quoted below

 2015-02-24 11:19 GMT+08:00 Patrick Huang <pathu...@aol.com>:
 各位，
 提醒大家對Chung
 Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。
 Patrick

 reflect that you do not
 have the whole picture on the issue you refer to.  Please
 be careful with your remarks that may be interpreted that
 you are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai campaign.
  
 The following
 abusive verbal insults are made by Prof. Chung-Chih Li of
 Illinois State University on the commentaries I made within
 these networks:
 Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於
 2015/2/21 下午11:39 寫道： There is
 no need to discuss with an
 unconscious machine that just repeats a paragraph in a
 imitation game.   BTW ,
 下面那篇文章也頗爛，不是我完全不同意，而是我認爲以NATPA成員的水準，應該思考更深些，事實的描述要更精準些。不過既然寫了，也還在forum裏， 就送給大家看，我也不會有意見，何必只挑我
 出來，還feel obliged
 to forward this article.  被我嫌是自找的。 Don't
 get me wrong, 我沒有主張把許教授趕出NATPA, 因為只要進得去，其實就沒有除名的辦
 法。幾年前許教授講得跟真的ㄧ樣，我也 只當他在撒嬌（自戀的老頭最會撒嬌），
 沒幾個月就溜回來po文，我也只是笑 笑。這次我也只是不喜歡用cross posting的方式，藉會員之便把 BATA的ㄧ些垃圾言論在NATPA free ride. 
 Chung
 Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com> 於
 2015年2月22日 上午12:16 寫道：



 Dear All, if
 Prof. Li's remarks are not personal attack what are
 they? based on his
 statements below I will bring him to court for libel. let me
 consult my
 attorney in Taiwan to bring him back to Taiwan for lawsuits.
 there have been a
 number of successful libel suits based on personal attacks
 in e-mails or
 Facebook messages with some cases requested the accused to
 pay over NT 1
 million. I am asking Prof. Li to wait for legal notice. I am
 not joking here.
 chung Hsu
 Prof. Li's
 additional comments in response to my e-mail
 above: Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於
 2015年2月22日 上午12:22 寫道：



 Man, I'm so so
 scared.....   哇哈哈哈！ Chung-Chih
 Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日
 上午5:52 寫道：爛文章可翻譯為 lousy article. 自戀的老頭可譯為 narcissistic old guy.
 撒嬌我就不知道了。  我ㄧ直以為馬英九是冠軍。

 2015-02-23 0:44 GMT+08:00 Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com>:



 Don't
 embarrass yourself. But go ahead. Your personal reputation among the 5
 persons
 in this exchange is much worse than what I
 wrote.  By the way, don't
 forget to attach the emails with appropriate translation so
 whoever you crying
 to has a little idea about what he/she is dealing
 with.  CC Li Prof. Li's personal attacks in an
 open platform for scholarly exchanges of views on issues
 relevant to the future of Taiwan do not reflect well on his
 faculty appointment at Illinois State University.  There is
 a need for a university professor to maintain the university
 reputation and to serve as a role model for students. Prof.
 Li's inappropriate verbal conduct off campus should be
 brought to the attention of the university administration to
 examine whether Prof. Li follows the faculty guidelines set
 at Illinois State University and to avoid letting him from
 repeating similar misconduct off or in campus in the
 future.
 Try to avoid making shaky or even false
 comments because we have the impression that you
 are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai
 camp.
 Respectfully,
 Chung
 Hsu 
 2015-02-24 11:19
 GMT+08:00 Patrick Huang <pathu...@aol.com>:
 各位，
 提醒大家對Chung
 Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。
 Patrick

 Sent from my iPhone
 On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:16 AM, Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
 wrote:

 Hi許重義教授: 謝謝您傑出而令人印象深刻的個人補充資料. 蔡英文本身是否可以接受為台灣的總統, 大家各有不同的解讀, 我都予以尊重. 但是我最擔心的事, 甚至於連蔡英文都還沒開始就任她的總統職位, 已經浮現了出來.
  由於蔡英文本身溫和無所作為的個性, 一些很有問題的政, 商, 學利益集團已經開始利用她的弱點, 無所不用其極地追殺異己. 他們成天在網路上以 "團結對外, 鞏固領導中心" 為理由, 指名道姓地辱罵個人, 包括你我. 我已經估計辱罵我的郵件, 每天不下5次. 雖然我都不想再製造事端, 也從來不與其計較, 但是這些人還是不肯放棄. 而這其中竟有一些人是使用假名, 不肯將自己真正的身份告訴他人. 您的 Bio補充資料充分地告訴了網友, 誰是真誠地以個人的名譽作擔保, 在討論問題. 誰是在利用匿名信,以辱罵他人以及毀謗他人的名譽, 為主要目的. 您的的個人補充資料, 有助於網友們消滅垃圾郵件. 我希望大家回歸公共事務的討論, 而不是指名道姓地辱罵其他的網友. 這樣對於 "團結對外,
 鞏固領導中心",
  或解決問題的本身並無幫助. 垃圾郵件已經太多了, 真的. Allen
 Kuo From:
 許重義Chung Hsu [mailto:hsucy...@gmail.com]

 Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:34 PM
 To: undisclosed-recipients:
 Subject: Fwd: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does,
 not what he talks Dear
 ALL, Attached
 is my reply to an e-mail on "scholars". My
 biographical sketch in English and Chinese are attached for
 your evaluation to judge whether I deserve to be labelled by
 the terms used by Prof.
 Li. If you
 concur with Prof. Li's verbally abusive terms applied to
 me, please let me know I would be pleased to add you as
 co-defendant(s) in this case and list your name(s) in my
 letter to be send to the attention of President Larry Dietz
 at Illinois State
 University. Very truly
 yours, Chung
 Hsu 
 From: 許重義Chung
 Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com>
 Date: 2015-02-23 12:38 GMT+08:00
 Subject: Re: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does, not what
 he talks
 To: ching chen <ching...@gmail.com>
 Cc: luby liao <luby...@gmail.com>

 Dear Prof.
 Chen,  You
 apparently misplaced your e-mail to Luby which came to my
 attention below. Your error gives me a chance to respond to
 you questions on
 "scholar". I told
 Prof. Li that my letter to be sent to the President of
 Illinois State University is not coming from somebody who
 does street fight. Thus, it is necessary to bring up a
 couple of key titles that will draw attention of President
 Larry Dietz at Illinois State University.
   Thanks for
 your e-mail with remarks on the issue of scholar. This gives
 me an excuse to trouble you, a historian who got a PhD
 degree from Harvard, to approve that I do have the stature
 of a scholar. You
 probably agree with what Winston Churchill stated: Watch
 what he does, not what he
 talks. I have
 been trying to make concrete contributions to advance Taiwan
 in a scholarly manner. Please check with former President
 Chen, President Ma, Legislator Yuan President Wang,
 Ministers of Health, Education, Economic Affairs and
 Technology, and other government officials to confirm that
 Chung Hsu is a scholar who talks straight, somewhat like
 KoP, and questions point blank on issues and is not afraid
 to criticize government policies and services in front of
 the Presidents, Ministers and other officials. Find out from
 them that Chung Hsu does not criticize behind their backs. 
 You can also check with people in the academic circles in
 the US and Taiwan to ask who is Chung Hsu and how he does
 straight talk and what has done in the best interest for his
 country, Taiwan.  It is
 unfortunate that I encounter "scholars" who prefer
 to engage street fight. I hope you find out from my bio that
 I am not a scholar who does empty talk. Please judge me
 based on what I have done not on what I have
 talked. Respectfully
 yours, Chung

 Hsu..  <ching...@gmail.com>

 於 2015年2月23日
 上午11:05 寫道：Luby, I cannot
 believe that Chung H thinks that he is addressing with
 "scholars".  What an elitist "scholar"
 he is.  That may be why he has made known in public that he
 was a former chairs professor and a former president of
 Taipei Medical University.  As if his view carries added
 weight on account of his social/academic
 background. Best,CCC
 Sent from my
 iPad   



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 <bio-20141220b-Chinese.doc><Eng_nihbio-20150105b.doc>




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[Chung Hsu]

Dear Luby, again you mix up issues. debate on national issues is not reminiscence of a violent physical insult on the street or a building is on fire. you are making irrelevant linkage of different situations. chung

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