謝謝 Chung 的補充資料, 有助於消滅垃圾郵件

[Allen Kuo]

Hi許重義教授:

 

謝謝您傑出而令人印象深刻的個人補充資料. 蔡英文本身是否可以接受為台灣的總統, 大家各有不同的解讀, 我都予以尊重. 但是我最擔心的事, 甚至於連蔡英文都還沒開始就任她的總統職位, 已經浮現了出來.

 

由於蔡英文本身溫和無所作為的個性, 一些很有問題的政, 商, 學利益集團已經開始利用她的弱點, 無所不用其極地追殺異己. 他們成天在網路上以 "團結對外, 鞏固領導中心" 為理由, 指名道姓地辱罵個人, 包括你我. 我已經估計辱罵我的郵件, 每天不下5次. 雖然我都不想再製造事端, 也從來不與其計較, 但是這些人還是不肯放棄. 而這其中竟有一些人是使用假名, 不肯將自己真正的身份告訴他人. 您的 Bio補充資料充分地告訴了網友, 誰是真誠地以個人的名譽作擔保, 在討論問題. 誰是在利用匿名信,以辱罵他人以及毀謗他人的名譽, 為主要目的. 您的的個人補充資料, 有助於網友們消滅垃圾郵件.

 

我希望大家回歸公共事務的討論, 而不是指名道姓地辱罵其他的網友. 這樣對於 "團結對外, 鞏固領導中心",  或解決問題的本身並無幫助. 垃圾郵件已經太多了, 真的.

 

Allen Kuo

 

From: 許重義Chung Hsu [mailto:hsucy...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:34 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Fwd: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does, not what he talks

 

Dear ALL,

 

Attached is my reply to an e-mail on "scholars". My biographical sketch in English and Chinese are attached for your evaluation to judge whether I deserve to be labelled by the terms used by Prof. Li.

 

If you concur with Prof. Li's verbally abusive terms applied to me, please let me know I would be pleased to add you as co-defendant(s) in this case and list your name(s) in my letter to be send to the attention of President Larry Dietz at Illinois State University.

 

Very truly yours,

 

Chung Hsu

 

From: 許重義Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com>
Date: 2015-02-23 12:38 GMT+08:00
Subject: Re: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does, not what he talks
To: ching chen <ching...@gmail.com>
Cc: luby liao <luby...@gmail.com>

Dear Prof. Chen, 

 

You apparently misplaced your e-mail to Luby which came to my attention below. Your error gives me a chance to respond to you questions on "scholar".

 

I told Prof. Li that my letter to be sent to the President of Illinois State University is not coming from somebody who does street fight. Thus, it is necessary to bring up a couple of key titles that will draw attention of President Larry Dietz at Illinois State University.  

 

Thanks for your e-mail with remarks on the issue of scholar. This gives me an excuse to trouble you, a historian who got a PhD degree from Harvard, to approve that I do have the stature of a scholar.

 

You probably agree with what Winston Churchill stated: Watch what he does, not what he talks.

 

I have been trying to make concrete contributions to advance Taiwan in a scholarly manner. Please check with former President Chen, President Ma, Legislator Yuan President Wang, Ministers of Health, Education, Economic Affairs and Technology, and other government officials to confirm that Chung Hsu is a scholar who talks straight, somewhat like KoP, and questions point blank on issues and is not afraid to criticize government policies and services in front of the Presidents, Ministers and other officials. Find out from them that Chung Hsu does not criticize behind their backs.  You can also check with people in the academic circles in the US and Taiwan to ask who is Chung Hsu and how he does straight talk and what has done in the best interest for his country, Taiwan. 

 

It is unfortunate that I encounter "scholars" who prefer to engage street fight. I hope you find out from my bio that I am not a scholar who does empty talk. Please judge me based on what I have done not on what I have talked.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

Chung Hsu

.. 

 

<ching...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月23日 上午11:05 寫道：

Luby,

 

I cannot believe that Chung H thinks that he is addressing with "scholars".  What an elitist "scholar" he is.  That may be why he has made known in public that he was a former chairs professor and a former president of Taipei Medical University.  As if his view carries added weight on account of his social/academic background.

 

Best,

CCC

Sent from my iPad

 

 

 

[Patrick Huang]

各位，

提醒大家對Chung Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。

Patrick

Sent from my iPhone

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<bio-20141220b-Chinese.doc>

<Eng_nihbio-20150105b.doc>

[許重義Chung Hsu]

Dear Patrick,

Your remarks quoted below

2015-02-24 11:19 GMT+08:00 Patrick Huang <pathu...@aol.com>:

各位，

提醒大家對Chung Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。

Patrick

reflect that you do not have the whole picture on the issue you refer to.  Please be careful with your remarks that may be interpreted that you are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai campaign.  

The following abusive verbal insults are made by Prof. Chung-Chih Li of Illinois State University on the commentaries I made within these networks:

Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015/2/21 下午11:39 寫道：

 

There is no need to discuss with an unconscious machine that just repeats a paragraph in a imitation game. 

 

BTW , 下面那篇文章也頗爛，不是我完全不同意，而是我認爲以NATPA成員的水準，應該思考更深些，事實的描述要更精準些。不過既然寫了，也還在forum裏， 就送給大家看，我也不會有意見，何必只挑我 出來，還feel obliged to forward this article.  被我嫌是自找的。

 

Don't get me wrong, 我沒有主張把許教授趕出NATPA, 因為只要進得去，其實就沒有除名的辦 法。幾年前許教授講得跟真的ㄧ樣，我也 只當他在撒嬌（自戀的老頭最會撒嬌）， 沒幾個月就溜回來po文，我也只是笑 笑。這次我也只是不喜歡用cross posting的方式，藉會員之便把 BATA的ㄧ些垃圾言論在NATPA free ride.

 

Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午12:16 寫道：

Dear All, if Prof. Li's remarks are not personal attack what are they? based on his statements below I will bring him to court for libel. let me consult my attorney in Taiwan to bring him back to Taiwan for lawsuits. there have been a number of successful libel suits based on personal attacks in e-mails or Facebook messages with some cases requested the accused to pay over NT 1 million. I am asking Prof. Li to wait for legal notice. I am not joking here. chung Hsu

Prof. Li's additional comments in response to my e-mail above:

 

Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午12:22 寫道：

Man, I'm so so scared.....   哇哈哈哈！

 

Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午5:52 寫道：

爛文章可翻譯為 lousy article. 自戀的老頭可譯為 narcissistic old guy. 撒嬌我就不知道了。 

 

我ㄧ直以為馬英九是冠軍。

2015-02-23 0:44 GMT+08:00 Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com>:

Don't embarrass yourself. But go ahead. Your personal reputation among the 5 persons in this exchange is much worse than what I wrote.  By the way, don't forget to attach the emails with appropriate translation so whoever you crying to has a little idea about what he/she is dealing with. 

 

CC Li

 

Prof. Li's personal attacks in an open platform for scholarly exchanges of views on issues relevant to the future of Taiwan do not reflect well on his faculty appointment at Illinois State University.  There is a need for a university professor to maintain the university reputation and to serve as a role model for students. Prof. Li's inappropriate verbal conduct off campus should be brought to the attention of the university administration to examine whether Prof. Li follows the faculty guidelines set at Illinois State University and to avoid letting him from repeating similar misconduct off or in campus in the future.

Try to avoid making shaky or even false comments because we have the impression that you are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai camp.

Respectfully,

Chung Hsu 

[Hwan Lin]

Dear Professor Hsu:

Thanks for sharing your bio. I am so much impressed by your world-class scholarship. You are an outstanding scholar!

Like you, I do not agree to insolent behavior.

I support you.

Best,

Hwan Lin

[Patrick Huang]

Dear Chung,

Thx for your feedback. You are right that I didn't follow the entire exchanges between you and CCC. On hindsight I also should have written you and CCC privately instead. My sincere apologies!

Words can hurt, as I knew it firsthand in my own case. I cannot take your pain away but I can assure you none in the forum condone name calling. yet all of us know it does happen in the heat of exchanges. Pls have faith in us that we do read and think and know what is being said is acceptable or not, even if not everyone of us speaks up. That may or may not be satisfactory enough to you, but it is there in our mind. 

Patrick

[Chung Hsu]

Dear All, 

My apologies for a lengthy e-mail. I cannot be brief in reply to Prof. CC Chen who is one 5 NATPA members implicated by Prof. Li with the following remark: "your personal reputation among the 5 persons in this exchange is much worse than what I wrote." What Prof. Li wrote is copied below:

"There is no need to discuss with an unconscious machine that just repeats a paragraph in a imitation game. 

 

BTW , 下面那篇文章也頗爛，不是我完全不同意，而是我認爲以NATPA成員的水準，應該思考更深些，事實的描述要更精準些。不過既然寫了，也還在forum裏， 就送給大家看，我也不會有意見，何必只挑我 出來，還feel obliged to forward this article.  被我嫌是自找的。

 

Don't get me wrong, 我沒有主張把許教授趕出NATPA, 因為只要進得去，其實就沒有除名的辦 法。幾年前許教授講得跟真的ㄧ樣，我也 只當他在撒嬌（自戀的老頭最會撒嬌）， 沒幾個月就溜回來po文，我也只是笑 笑。這次我也只是不喜歡用cross posting的方式，藉會員之便把 BATA的ㄧ些垃圾言論在NATPA free ride."

Because of cross posting, my commentaries appeared in NATPA Forum. I did not post specifically my view points in NATPA Forum.

I am asking Prof. CC Chen to confirm in these networks that what Prof. Li stated above is true. If Prof. Chen's answer is affirmative, I am asking him to compare my academic credentials and services to NATPA with those by Prof. Li and to render a judgment. Justice has to be served!

I was a NATPA member who had paid permanent membership dues and served as the president during the 1996 presidential election. I was very harsh in criticizing President DH Lee in a number newspaper articles published prior his election by a general presidential election, the first time in Taiwan. 

I discontinued my NAPTA membership in protest of restriction of freedom of speech in NATPA forum. A handful of NATPA members including Prof. Li recommended that Johnson Wang, a NATPA member, be suspended because his comments on some political issues were considered offensive. Johnson Wang's suspension for 3 months was approved by the NATPA Board. Because NATPA was established to fight for democracy and freedom of speech in Taiwan shortly after the Formosan Incident in 1979, I fought against the motion to restrict freedom of speech and against suspension of any NATPA member because his or her viewpoints are unpopular among a handful of NATPA members. I failed on this mission and I withdrew from NATPA in protest to leave a record that I was against restriction of speech recommended by a handful of NATPA members and approved by the NATPA board in suspending Johnson Wang. 

I am asking Charles Hsu, the incumbent NATPA President, to review the board records to compared Johnson Wang's comments  with those made by Prof. Li. NATPA has to execute the Forum guidelines just announced recently by President Charles Hsu. If Johnson Wang was suspended then why not Prof. Li this time? NATPA has to stand up for its record in fighting for freedom of speech and  be fair on its standing on freedom of speech which can be clearly distinguished from personal attacks made by Prof. Li. 

Chung Hsu

從我的 iPhone 傳送

ching...@gmail.com 於 2015/2/25 下午6:46 寫道：

Dear Patrick, Chung  and all, 

Chung Hsu has a dispute with CCL (Chung-Chih Li) not CCC (Ching-Chih Chen).  A negligible typo.

The main reason I am responding is due to the fact that I am one of a handful of NATPA members who witnessed the developing of the dispute as well as the fact that Chung Hsu made public a private email exchange between him and me.

A dispute generally involves at least 2 persons/parties.  Near truth, let alone full truth, will not emerge until all involved have had their says.  So far, we have read Chung's story, actually far from a full one, through his reveal of a couple of private emails and CC Li's remarks (not made in "open platform").  We have yet to read about CC Li's side of the dispute.   I have no idea if he will step forward with his story.  In any case, I feel compelled to tell what I witnessed.   I will try to be brief.

Chung Hsu is not a member of NATPA since the summer of 2012.  Not being a member, Chung should not have access to NATPA Forum which is for members only.  However, Chung occasionally would post a message at the Forum.  

In the recent debate at ILT (I love Taiwan), Chung has been a fairly active participant.  Due to cross posting, Chung's messages as well as those of others would end up in the Forum.  On 2/19 (?), Chung posted a message for several scores of individuals and a few groups, including Forum, ILT and BATA.   Annoyed by the great number of messages showing up at Forum, several NATPA  members  including me, proposed an end to cross posting.  They also suggested that not being a member Chung should not be allowed to post at Forum.  In addition, CC Li reposted Chung's 7/2012 announcement to formally withdraw from NATPA.

A couple of days later (on 2/21), Chung sent his Chinese article to NATPA president and 5 members who had suggested to end Chung's access to Forum.  With cc to 5 NATPA colleagues, CCL replied to Chung with unfriendly comments.  Heated email exchange between Chung and CCL followed while 5 others witnessed.  The angry exchange ended with Chung's threat to sue CCL in Taiwan and USA separately.  Chung also indicated he would  write to CCL's university president to file a complain against CCL.  CCL basically said go ahead or something like that.

In the meantime on 2/23, Chung also sent to me a couple of private emails, including one I considered to a poorly-veiled threat even though he said it's not a threat.  

Keep in mind, all these are private emails not messages posted in "open platform".  However, Chung partially revealed the dispute to BATA-affiliated  folks on 2/22 (?) and thus brought the Chung-CCL dispute to the open/public. 

Where will it lead?  Can the law suit be avoided?  I have no idea.

Best,

CCC

PS, I'll offer an apology if there are major errors in my above narrative.

Sent from my iPad