對許重義擬提告李中志的感想
Luby Liao
當你說民進黨祗是另一個國民黨, 甚至與共產黨有何不同!
請你拿出事實來支持你的論述.Cheers, Luby
Dear Luby,When reading comments shared among those in the networks (BATA, ILT, and others), please try to make a distinction between those addressing issue vs. those making personal attacks. If critiques are directed at a party or its policies, whether the comments are right or wrong can be debated based on supporting information . We can ask harsh questions on policies, goals set by IW Tsai or political actions she has taken because these items will affect the nation and its citizens if she is elected the President of Taiwan. However, the critiques can NOT be directed at IW Tsai herself.Please refer to Prof. Li's comments detailed in my reply to Patrick Huang in the attached file if you or other members within the networks care to read how Prof. Li made abusive verbal insults. As the leader of the ILT network, you certainly understand better than I the difference between critical remarks on policies, strategies or issues of national interest vs. those directed at a person.In reference to freedom of speech in Taiwan, we can yell at the President in front of the Presidential Palace to protest certain national policies. However, we cannot do character assassination. Are Prof. Li's remarks direct at the issues I raised or on me personally?Let's elevate the level of BATA, ILT and other Taiwanese/Taiwanese American networks to a scholarly level, not street fight.With best wishes,Chung Hsu2015-02-25 10:39 GMT+08:00 Luby Liao <luby...@gmail.com>:許重義準備告李中志, 是因為 李中志 說他撒嬌, 影射他是自戀的老頭, etc.我一再地反對李中志這樣的用詞, 因為這是我們不敢在系務會議上對同事講的話.2015-02-21, 許重義寫道:I hope we all settle down to discuss issues important for Taiwan. Let's address issues of national interests, not personal. Let's address the issues in which a person may be referred to. However,we should try to avoid personal attack.
We are all well educated and live in civilized societies. We are all for a better Taiwan and can have debate in a scholarly manner but not in street fight.我問他:許教授, 依你的看法, BATA Editor Allen Kuo 這麼說
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2012 時很明顯已有蔡媽媽的骯髒記錄. 合理推測, 2016 變本加厲, 所以才會有初選只有 1 人參選的可恥狀態.
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是不是 Scholarly? 算不算 debate?他的答覆是:Dear Luby, I agree with you that we need to be careful in using appropriate term on qualifications of presidential qualifications. I believe most , if not all, suspected alteration of DPP primary rules have been clarified. constructive critiques on the merit of IW Tsai as the DPP candidate have to be based on facts not making simple-minded slogan such as bring down IW Tsai without solid argument and adequate justification. We are all for better Taiwan and are working to assist in improving qualifications of presidential candidates. if is simplistic call or action to bring down this and that candidate. with best wishes, chung當李中志說許重義撒嬌, 影射他是自戀的老頭, 他就要提告.但許重義每天讀 BATA, 裏面充斥著最不堪的髒話像: 空心菜, 蔡媽媽, 骯髒, 可恥..., 他卻一點感覺沒有.論語言的不合適, 李中志的較可怕, 還是 BATA的?最後再舉一例. 2015-02-19 20:20 GMT+08:00 許重義 Chung Hsu wrote:民進黨總統候選人提名過程，黨內派系權力、利益交換的動作，已逐漸浮出檯面，民進黨祗是另一個國民黨的現象，也逐漸呈現。
...
陳致中, 一位違反民進黨黨紀，已被開除黨籍的非民進黨黨員，有何資格出來阻礙一位民進黨黨員領表參與民進黨總統候選人初選? 民進黨的官二代，與國民黨，甚至共產黨有何不同?
你我今天在台灣能夠有一些民主自由, 能夠𣈱所欲言, 不怕被迫害 全拜民進黨之賜.
但許重義居然說 民進黨祗是另一個國民黨, 甚至與共產黨有何不同!
如果許重義真的告李中志, 民進黨更應該告許重義.
Cheers, Luby
=====On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:37 PM, 許重義 Chung Hsu: <hsucy...@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Patrick,Your remarks quoted below
2015-02-24 11:19 GMT+08:00 Patrick Huang <pathu...@aol.com>:各位，提醒大家對Chung Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。Patrickreflect that you do not have the whole picture on the issue you refer to. Please be careful with your remarks that may be interpreted that you are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai campaign.The following abusive verbal insults are made by Prof. Chung-Chih Li of Illinois State University on the commentaries I made within these networks:Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015/2/21 下午11:39 寫道：
There is no need to discuss with an unconscious machine that just repeats a paragraph in a imitation game.
BTW , 下面那篇文章也頗爛，不是我完全不同意，而是我認爲以NATPA成員的水準，應該思考更深些，事實的描述要更精準些。不過既然寫了，也還在forum裏， 就送給大家看，我也不會有意見，何必只挑我 出來，還feel obliged to forward this article. 被我嫌是自找的。
Don't get me wrong, 我沒有主張把許教授趕出NATPA, 因為只要進得去，其實就沒有除名的辦 法。幾年前許教授講得跟真的ㄧ樣，我也 只當他在撒嬌（自戀的老頭最會撒嬌）， 沒幾個月就溜回來po文，我也只是笑 笑。這次我也只是不喜歡用cross posting的方式，藉會員之便把 BATA的ㄧ些垃圾言論在NATPA free ride.
Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午12:16 寫道：
Dear All, if Prof. Li's remarks are not personal attack what are they? based on his statements below I will bring him to court for libel. let me consult my attorney in Taiwan to bring him back to Taiwan for lawsuits. there have been a number of successful libel suits based on personal attacks in e-mails or Facebook messages with some cases requested the accused to pay over NT 1 million. I am asking Prof. Li to wait for legal notice. I am not joking here. chung Hsu
Prof. Li's additional comments in response to my e-mail above:
Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午12:22 寫道：
Man, I'm so so scared..... 哇哈哈哈！
Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月22日 上午5:52 寫道：
爛文章可翻譯為 lousy article. 自戀的老頭可譯為 narcissistic old guy. 撒嬌我就不知道了。
我ㄧ直以為馬英九是冠軍。
2015-02-23 0:44 GMT+08:00 Chung-Chih Li <chungc...@gmail.com>:
Don't embarrass yourself. But go ahead. Your personal reputation among the 5 persons in this exchange is much worse than what I wrote. By the way, don't forget to attach the emails with appropriate translation so whoever you crying to has a little idea about what he/she is dealing with.
CC Li
Prof. Li's personal attacks in an open platform for scholarly exchanges of views on issues relevant to the future of Taiwan do not reflect well on his faculty appointment at Illinois State University. There is a need for a university professor to maintain the university reputation and to serve as a role model for students. Prof. Li's inappropriate verbal conduct off campus should be brought to the attention of the university administration to examine whether Prof. Li follows the faculty guidelines set at Illinois State University and to avoid letting him from repeating similar misconduct off or in campus in the future.
Try to avoid making shaky or even false comments because we have the impression that you are speaking on behalf of the IW Tsai camp.
Respectfully,Chung Hsu2015-02-24 11:19 GMT+08:00 Patrick Huang <pathu...@aol.com>:各位，提醒大家對Chung Hsu回應時要特別小心翼翼，免得被他送交你的老闆懲處。Patrick
Sent from my iPhone請隨時 造訪我們的網站 http://groups.google.com/group/i_love_taiwan--Hi許重義教授:
謝謝您傑出而令人印象深刻的個人補充資料. 蔡英文本身是否可以接受為台灣的總統, 大家各有不同的解讀, 我都予以尊重. 但是我最擔心的事, 甚至於連蔡英文都還沒開始就任她的總統職位, 已經浮現了出來.
由於蔡英文本身溫和無所作為的個性, 一些很有問題的政, 商, 學利益集團已經開始利用她的弱點, 無所不用其極地追殺異己. 他們成天在網路上以 "團結對外, 鞏固領導中心" 為理由, 指名道姓地辱罵個人, 包括你我. 我已經估計辱罵我的郵件, 每天不下5次. 雖然我都不想再製造事端, 也從來不與其計較, 但是這些人還是不肯放棄. 而這其中竟有一些人是使用假名, 不肯將自己真正的身份告訴他人. 您的 Bio補充資料充分地告訴了網友, 誰是真誠地以個人的名譽作擔保, 在討論問題. 誰是在利用匿名信,以辱罵他人以及毀謗他人的名譽, 為主要目的. 您的的個人補充資料, 有助於網友們消滅垃圾郵件.
我希望大家回歸公共事務的討論, 而不是指名道姓地辱罵其他的網友. 這樣對於 "團結對外, 鞏固領導中心", 或解決問題的本身並無幫助. 垃圾郵件已經太多了, 真的.
Allen Kuo
From: 許重義Chung Hsu [mailto:hsucy...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:34 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Fwd: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does, not what he talks
Dear ALL,
Attached is my reply to an e-mail on "scholars". My biographical sketch in English and Chinese are attached for your evaluation to judge whether I deserve to be labelled by the terms used by Prof. Li.
If you concur with Prof. Li's verbally abusive terms applied to me, please let me know I would be pleased to add you as co-defendant(s) in this case and list your name(s) in my letter to be send to the attention of President Larry Dietz at Illinois State University.
Very truly yours,
Chung Hsu
From: 許重義Chung Hsu <hsucy...@gmail.com>
Date: 2015-02-23 12:38 GMT+08:00
Subject: Re: Winston Churchill: Watch what he does, not what he talks
To: ching chen <ching...@gmail.com>
Cc: luby liao <luby...@gmail.com>Dear Prof. Chen,
You apparently misplaced your e-mail to Luby which came to my attention below. Your error gives me a chance to respond to you questions on "scholar".
I told Prof. Li that my letter to be sent to the President of Illinois State University is not coming from somebody who does street fight. Thus, it is necessary to bring up a couple of key titles that will draw attention of President Larry Dietz at Illinois State University.
Thanks for your e-mail with remarks on the issue of scholar. This gives me an excuse to trouble you, a historian who got a PhD degree from Harvard, to approve that I do have the stature of a scholar.
You probably agree with what Winston Churchill stated: Watch what he does, not what he talks.
I have been trying to make concrete contributions to advance Taiwan in a scholarly manner. Please check with former President Chen, President Ma, Legislator Yuan President Wang, Ministers of Health, Education, Economic Affairs and Technology, and other government officials to confirm that Chung Hsu is a scholar who talks straight, somewhat like KoP, and questions point blank on issues and is not afraid to criticize government policies and services in front of the Presidents, Ministers and other officials. Find out from them that Chung Hsu does not criticize behind their backs. You can also check with people in the academic circles in the US and Taiwan to ask who is Chung Hsu and how he does straight talk and what has done in the best interest for his country, Taiwan.
It is unfortunate that I encounter "scholars" who prefer to engage street fight. I hope you find out from my bio that I am not a scholar who does empty talk. Please judge me based on what I have done not on what I have talked.
Respectfully yours,
Chung Hsu
..
<ching...@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月23日 上午11:05 寫道：
Luby,
I cannot believe that Chung H thinks that he is addressing with "scholars". What an elitist "scholar" he is. That may be why he has made known in public that he was a former chairs professor and a former president of Taipei Medical University. As if his view carries added weight on account of his social/academic background.
Best,
CCC
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Luby:
我想你的盲點是將公眾人物, 與私人分不開.
這裏有一些判例. 1) 有一次國民黨的高資敏告在美國的台灣公論報毀謗他是 "四腳仔". 後來法官判高資敏告輸, 因為他當時是家喻戶曉的公眾人物. 2 ) 至於 Obama 經常被極右派公開侮辱為回教徒或共產黨徒更是常事.
因為蔡英文是家喻戶曉的公眾人物. 所以蔡媽媽, 空心, 菜, 骯髒, 可恥等這些字不只BATA, 到處都有人在用以形容蔡英文, 是合法的.
可是你的朋友經常用負面的字眼形容非公眾人物的網友個人, 就有觸法的可能. 當然其上訴的要件之一是要能証明: 由於這些負面的字眼已對非公眾人物的個人, 造成了可証明的損失.
憑心而論你我都有責任規勸網友不要去用負面的字眼形容非公眾人物的個人. 如果有人上訴, 我們都會有連帶責任. 互勉之.
Allen Kuo