Re: [AppleVan] Digest for applevan@googlegroups.com
Carole Gibson
Topic: Winding Down AppleVanRory Bowman <Mac...@macrory.com> Oct 07 09:36AM -0700 ^
Howdy, All.
As many old-timers know, AppleVan (originally the AppleVan Association of Vancouver) was founded in the late 1970's or early 1980's, well before the Macintosh. With dues and officers, it also included a large box of software which the librarian brought to each meeting, often "checking out" copies for folks to copy in days long before consumer Internet, when copyright was a vaguer, less understood thing. It met for a dozen or more years at Hazel Dell Elementary, until 1997 or 1998 as I recall.
As the iMac and OS 9 and the Internet emerged, folks moved on and the meetings also changed. The old dues-paying structure was changed to a more voluntary one and monthly meetings featured the usual Q&A along with "feature presentations" by members on their favorite techniques or programs. This is what I personally see as AppleVan's "golden age," under the capable leadership of Kelli Pio.
For the past few years things have changed quite a bit, with search engines and high-speed Internet making information on all things easier to find and the quality of hardware and software improving. Folks seem to feel less of a need for face-time sharing and so meetings have gotten smaller and more sparsely attended.
AppleVan has long skipped its monthly meetings during November and December, which would make the October 26 meeting the last of 2011. At the September meeting I floated an idea that I think Steve Jobs death this week makes even more fitting and worthy of consideration.
I would like to propose that AppleVan discontinue its regular monthly meeting and move toward an online-only format. I will continue to offer monthly "free clinics" at Empower Up on the third Wednesday of each month as long as that facility is available, but I'm not certain that the fourth Wednesday meeting is worth continuing.
What do folks think of this idea? Does anyone have a desire to take leadership and ownership of a monthly meeting? It seems to me that our hobby has been replaced by commerce, and I personally have little interest in running a fan club for the largest tech company in the world.
With Steve Jobs' death this week I am thinking that perhaps now is a good time to close the book on the special and beautiful thing that is AppleVan,
with dignity and love.
- Rory
Rory Bowman
The idea of a daytime "boot camp" is interesting: a sort of urban Mac Camp with a series of short and fairly focused classes. Rather than have eight presenters each year, how about eight in one day? Interesting idea....
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GATES JOANN
GATES JOANN
Rory Bowman
On Oct 9, 2011, at 3:53 PM, GATES JOANN wrote:
> What does the new Vancouver library have to do with it?
>
GATES JOANN
A friend of mine in Prescott, Arizona is President of their Mac Users Group there.. he also teaches once a week at the library.
Mark Miranda
sentence outside of a fixed income lifestyle or young geeks. That
target demographic, on both ends, is very small and often frugal by
necessity. In a perfect club, the geek members of the club would coach
the fixed income members and steer. But even the geeks need something
to bring them together and keep them coming back. Givers can't give
forever with nothing in return.
Internet has also been very accessible and affordable in the home
since the mid 90s...and with easy packaging, now more than ever. The
endless giving of Rory and a few others (from what I gather) is what
kept it alive for so long...not the lack of choices for access and
education. Times change whether we like it or not. Sometimes we just
get tired of changing and trying to make sense and stay ahead of it
all. It's ok to just be done. That's my stance on racing rc cars. I'm
just done for now.
There has to be some kind of attraction beyond getting something
handed to folks for free, or getting something because they can't get
it elsewhere. There also has to be some attraction for the folks that
are doing all of the giving. Giving can't happen from one source.
People also have an obligation to research, educate themselves, and
pay it forward. Givers are doomed to give forever, as long as someone
is asking, until they stop. Kudos to you Rory; for giving so much for
decades. So where are we now?
Pardon my directness (I'm from NY) .... Million dollar question: Are
you passing the torch, or are you putting it down?
Mark Miranda
the books with dignity. I can only tip my hat to you sir, and say
"Darn!" with a frown. You've also created a legacy here. With
dignity.... SUCCESS!!!
Glenna Rose
making two trips every third Wednesday, one to get the key and one to
open the door. Often, after a meeting, people would stay inside the
building for up to an hour afterward keeping her from leaving. I
learned from her and when I taught at PMUG, I chased everyone out of
the classroom by 9:10 so I could lock the room and leave if I wanted
to; unlike me, Kelli was too nice to say, "Go outside to visit so I
can go home." We have been extremely lucky for her to have done that
for so many years. Her increasing obligations did not make it
practical for her to continue doing it. The request was made for
other members to step forth and get the key and open the doors for
meetings. I volunteered for the first two (or three, don't remember)
months but no one else did. I actually considered doing it for a
while longer, but decided it was not right for one person to shoulder
the responsibility as Kelli had done so many years. For several
months, there was no AppleVan meeting until Rory and EmpowerUp crafted
an agreement so we could use that space.
Now, we are back where we were, needing someone to take on the
responsibility of facilitating the meeting and needing people to make
presentations that would be of interest to members. In spite of
repeated requests for meeting ideas, they have been few and far
between. While just a Q&A and sharing has worked really well on
numerous occasions with those attending talking about how valuable it
was, it does not bring in members for just a Q&A.
Interestingly, the people who came to meetings in Hazel Dell and those
who attended meetings at EmpowerUp are, for the most part, different
people. For that reason, contrary to what Mark Miranda appears to
think, I am inclined to think this is not an age-related issue but
rather day, time and location. My observations over the years, for
both Windows and Mac users, is that knowledge level and interests
rather than age are the drivers for folks wanting to learn.
I'm going to say something here that will anger some, but I base it on
many years of experience. Many younger users simply don't want "old
people" telling them anything regardless of the skill level of the
"old" person. As for age, I truly do not consider mid-forties as old
anyway. Also, when I was teaching, I could teach young (teens) and
old (60+) and have all of them benefit so that is another reason I
don't think it is age-related but rather time availability and
interest/skill level. I would really hate to think that AppleVan
would discontinue because "old" people are those who have supported
it. Truthfully, regardless of the presenters or the subject matter, I
have rarely seen a teen or someone in their early 20s attend a meeting
- they already "know everything."
Also, there is a lot to learn without using the latest iPhone and
syncing everything you can think of with it or playing the newest
game.
Personally, I would like to see AppleVan continue some sort of
in-person venue even if it is only two or three times a year. The
idea of a "camp" appeals to me. However, truth is that without
consistent and interested attendance, it matters not who is there or
what the subject is. I can say with certainty that is is discouraging
to go the work of preparing for a presentation and having less than
half a dozen people attend. To properly prepare takes many hours; one
does not successfully lead a "class" just walking in the door and
doing a spur of the moment thing regardless of how well the presenter
knows the material.
Regarding paying a fee to rent space, I just don't see that happening
given the attendance history. There is free space but it requires an
individual to make the commitment and take responsibility (and usually
sign the paperwork) to be there and open the room.
In response to the question, "Are you passing the torch, or putting it
down?" There has to be someone to whom to pass the torch - therein
lies the problem.
Glenna
--
---<-@ Glenna Rose @->---
I cannot change the world, but I can make my little corner better.
Mark Miranda
Agreed. The age thing is only relevant because the young have less responsibility and more enthusiasm, energy, and time. Age is relevant when discussing money as well. To of the bell curve usually happens mid 20s to mid 40s...after that its a struggle. Age is not related to knowledge when I refer to it. I will be a student till the end of my days. Personally, I'm of the opinion where if I knew then what I know now....
I was offering to take the online torch if the powers that be wished it.... Even mentioned its just life support until it found its footing. But that's not the case...the powers that be are choosing to let it go. Its not my place to question or wonder why. No one knows me, trusts me, our has any reason to let me help foster it for awhile. Put it down is the choice...so be it.
<MM>
PacNWGal
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/applevan/topics
- Winding Down AppleVan [5 Updates]
- Online would be great [4 Updates]
- Early meetings [1 Update]
Topic: Winding Down AppleVanRory Bowman <Mac...@macrory.com> Oct 07 09:36AM -0700 ^
Howdy, All.
As many old-timers know, AppleVan (originally the AppleVan Association of Vancouver) was founded in the late 1970's or early 1980's, well before the Macintosh. With dues and officers, it also included a large box of software which the librarian brought to each meeting, often "checking out" copies for folks to copy in days long before consumer Internet, when copyright was a vaguer, less understood thing. It met for a dozen or more years at Hazel Dell Elementary, until 1997 or 1998 as I recall.
As the iMac and OS 9 and the Internet emerged, folks moved on and the meetings also changed. The old dues-paying structure was changed to a more voluntary one and monthly meetings featured the usual Q&A along with "feature presentations" by members on their favorite techniques or programs. This is what I personally see as AppleVan's "golden age," under the capable leadership of Kelli Pio.
For the past few years things have changed quite a bit, with search engines and high-speed Internet making information on all things easier to find and the quality of hardware and software improving. Folks seem to feel less of a need for face-time sharing and so meetings have gotten smaller and more sparsely attended.
AppleVan has long skipped its monthly meetings during November and December, which would make the October 26 meeting the last of 2011. At the September meeting I floated an idea that I think Steve Jobs death this week makes even more fitting and worthy of consideration.
I would like to propose that AppleVan discontinue its regular monthly meeting and move toward an online-only format. I will continue to offer monthly "free clinics" at Empower Up on the third Wednesday of each month as long as that facility is available, but I'm not certain that the fourth Wednesday meeting is worth continuing.
What do folks think of this idea? Does anyone have a desire to take leadership and ownership of a monthly meeting? It seems to me that our hobby has been replaced by commerce, and I personally have little interest in running a fan club for the largest tech company in the world.
With Steve Jobs' death this week I am thinking that perhaps now is a good time to close the book on the special and beautiful thing that is AppleVan,
with dignity and love.
- Rory
GATES JOANN <shtz...@gmail.com> Oct 07 10:33AM -0700 ^
I believe an online format would be fine; hopefully we can ask questions pertinent to our use. Maybe a blog, or a forum?Steven W Riggins <srig...@gmail.com> Oct 07 10:35AM -0700 ^
While I only attended AppleVan a couple of times (sadly I always had conflicts) , I greatly appreciate what AppleVan did for the Apple community.
Thank you to all of the volunteers and members for having provided such a great resource for so long.
Stevetda...@gmail.com Oct 07 11:49AM -0700 ^
Thanks a bunch Rory: As someone who is relatively new to Macs, I have benefited greatly from the monthly meeting. From my prospective there is a real value in the "hands-on" learning that goes on at the meetings. I have appreciated the talent and efforts that you and others have brought to the meetings, and I would miss that, but I realize the burden that that requires for those with the knowledge. I also value the email banter that has been available and would like to see at least that continue. Continuing the workshops on a periodic basis would be a plus too. Continuing some form of dialog would be very helpful. And thanks again to all that have provided support. tom d.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Rory Bowman wrote:
Lgentry804 <lgent...@aol.com> Oct 07 05:54PM -0400 ^
Rory,
The on-line approach will actually work better for me, since I am always tied up on Wednesday evenings. It is sad to see an old historic artifact like Applevan bite the dust but probably for the best.
Larry Gentry
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Topic: Online would be greatBob New <bob...@q.com> Oct 07 09:44AM -0700 ^
I'm in the "golden years" and unable to drive at night so I have stopped attending AppleVan meetings. To continue to share ideas, advice, questions, help, etc., online is something I would like very much. I remember the days of the box of programs, etc. Meetings were held in a church then; it was before the Hazel Dell Elementary era.
I'll keep watching.
------
Bob New
bob...@q.comRory Bowman <Mac...@macrory.com> Oct 07 10:10AM -0700 ^
Do you recall the exact timeline, Bob? I was not aware of the church space and could not recall the names of the main organizer or librarian. I want to say that the main guy was named Forrest or Lloyd or Floyd or something like that (I think he worked at HDE) and baldish. The librarian I remember was much younger (mid-20's) with a black moustache. If you have more specific data I think it would be great to share here.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Bob New wrote:
"Rob Starr" <lordti...@gmail.com> Oct 07 11:09AM -0700 ^
> Do you recall the exact timeline, Bob? I was not aware of the church
> space and could not recall the names of > the main organizer or librarian.
I don't remember, but at one meeting, he had to take charge (the other
officers didn't show up) that meeting
I was doing the library work
> I want to say that the main guy was named Forrest or Lloyd or Floyd or
> something like that (I think he
> worked at HDE) and baldish.
don't remember
> The librarian I remember was much younger (mid-20's) with a black
> moustache.
that would have been me (I still have the apple ][ library)
> If you have more specific data I think it would be great to share here.
there was two other place the the apple*van meet, one was the van. mall, in
a communly room
then it was to a member house (untill they move north)
---
Rob Starr
ICQ # 11868133 or # 70398519
Yahoo : lordtime2000 AIM : LordTime20000 MSN : Lord Time
Jabber : lordti...@gmail.com Astra : lord_timeSharri LaPierre <Barebo...@comcast.net> Oct 07 12:25PM -0700 ^
I'm a fellow "golden years" occupant, however I have another
unpublishable name for these years! I can still drive at night
providing there is no one else out on the road. The truth is - it is
harder and harder to get out after dinner. The energy level is below
"low - time to refill". On-line would definitely work better for me.
Sharri LaPierre
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Rory Bowman wrote:
Do you recall the exact timeline, Bob? I was not aware of the church
space and could not recall the names of the main organizer or
librarian. I want to say that the main guy was named Forrest or Lloyd
or Floyd or something like that (I think he worked at HDE) and
baldish. The librarian I remember was much younger (mid-20's) with a
black moustache. If you have more specific data I think it would be
great to share here.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Bob New wrote:
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Topic: Early meetingsBob New <bob...@q.com> Oct 07 11:00AM -0700 ^
You asked about location of meetings when I first attended. I said it was a church basement. My wife is not completely in agreement with me on that. There were computers there so perhaps it was a school (prior to Hazel Dell Elementary applevan meetings). I think the location was in the Lakeshore area. It was mostly "old guys" (I'm sure they were younger than I am now).
I was shy, didn't say much and knew less than anyone there about computers so I just listened. I remember there was one lady (Kelly Pio knows her) who had big dogs left out in the car and brought in two adolescent boys. These boys were disruptive and bounced from computer to computer during the meetings. I'd would rather she left the kids in the car and brought in the dogs. She eventually left and moved to (I think) Seattle. Not to take anything away from her personally as she was "computer savvy."
------
Bob New
bob...@q.com
JoAnn Gates
I have a problem right now, though!
I've upgraded to OS5; I've upgraded iTunes; I've upgraded to iCloud.
I have an iMac, a MacBook Pro, an iPhone 4, and an iPad I.
Everything is working, except for the iMac in Mail.
Before any of this I had Comcast and Gmail, both feeding into my Inbox. Now I get all the mail on the Pro and the iDevices, but on the iMac all I get is Comcast.
Help, someone!