I think my Metformin may be kicking in. ie. fruit testing
Michael
Yesterday evening I tested 3.6 ounces of orange. I also ate 4 ounces of
meat with it. My starting BG was 102. After 45 minutes my BG was 100.
Today I had 3.7 ounces of orange with no meat. My starting BG was 99. My
45 minutes post number was 100.
I realize this is not a great victory considering I am taking 2000 mg
Met per day. However, it has stifled my lust for fruit. At this rate I
may be able to eat an orange every day. Just being wildly optimistic.
I may try another type of fruit. I am wondering if oranges have less
impact than other fruit. Pre 2000 mg treatment my 1/3 peach produced a
25 point bump. I will try another peach when they come back in season. I
could try an apple, they have them now at the store.
This will probably have to wait a bit. Our tv station predicted 1 to 2
feet of snow tonight and tomorrow.
BTW, I seem to have perfected my kill file. It is a little tricky. I
appreciate the ability to share information with other T2s. I don't need
to hear from trolls.
What I would like to know is that if maintaining this control with the
help of Met will help lower my IR as if I were not taking Met. Or does
the Met negate that progress. This answer would be a serious
consideration on whether to continue the Met.
Michael
Julie Bove
"Michael" <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:HLX_m.417859$8m4.2...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
I do not like oranges or peaches so never tried them. Don't like bananas or
most fruit really. I do seem to do fine with a handful of dried or fresh
cranberries (unsweetened), a large apple or little container of applesauce,
a pear or 1/2 a grapefruit. I do not often eat these things and when I do
eat them it's not always in the quantity listed. It's often less. Mainly
when I do eat fruit it is because nothing else is available.
Bob
wrote:
>I went up from 1000 mg per day to 2000 mg per day about 2 weeks ago.
>Yesterday evening I tested 3.6 ounces of orange. I also ate 4 ounces of
>meat with it. My starting BG was 102. After 45 minutes my BG was 100.
>Today I had 3.7 ounces of orange with no meat. My starting BG was 99. My
>45 minutes post number was 100.
>
>I realize this is not a great victory considering I am taking 2000 mg
>Met per day. However, it has stifled my lust for fruit. At this rate I
>may be able to eat an orange every day. Just being wildly optimistic.
>
>I may try another type of fruit. I am wondering if oranges have less
>impact than other fruit.
See below. Oranges appear to have about the same impact as a peach.
>Pre 2000 mg treatment my 1/3 peach produced a
>25 point bump. I will try another peach when they come back in season. I
>could try an apple, they have them now at the store.
>
>This will probably have to wait a bit. Our tv station predicted 1 to 2
>feet of snow tonight and tomorrow.
>
>BTW, I seem to have perfected my kill file. It is a little tricky. I
>appreciate the ability to share information with other T2s. I don't need
>to hear from trolls.
>
>What I would like to know is that if maintaining this control with the
>help of Met will help lower my IR as if I were not taking Met. Or does
>the Met negate that progress. This answer would be a serious
>consideration on whether to continue the Met.
To early to tell.
This explains the glycemic index along with examples.
http://www.amsa.org/healingthehealer/GlycemicIndex.pdf
These are some numbers for different fruits.
Anything in the 40s and below should keep your blood levels
from spiking now that you know how you react to peach..
http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/glycemicfoodchart.htm
Cherries Low 22
Grapefruit Low 25
Apricots (dried) Low 31
Apples Low 38
Pears Low 38
Plums Low 39
Peaches Low 42
Oranges Low 44
Grapes Low 46
Kiwi fruit Low 53
Bananas Low 54
boopsee
$8m4.2...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com:
Hey Michael, did you see a psychiatrist yet for you hypochondriacal
obsessions with spot glucose testing?
How ur "filters" working now?
Michael
Thanks for info Bob. The link your supplied is very helpful. It is in my
T2 favorites folder now. I would never have imagined that cherries would
be so low. They are one of my favorite fruits. I will try them when they
reappear in the produce section. I assumed that because I liked them so
much that they must be full of sugar.
What I have done is started taking Met to allow me to be a little less
hard core with my diet. I may be able to eat some fruit now and then.
The question of course is whether this is a good course of action just
to be able to eat some fruit. It may well not be.
Michael
ray
> I went up from 1000 mg per day to 2000 mg per day about 2 weeks ago.
> Yesterday evening I tested 3.6 ounces of orange. I also ate 4 ounces of
> meat with it. My starting BG was 102. After 45 minutes my BG was 100.
> Today I had 3.7 ounces of orange with no meat. My starting BG was 99. My
> 45 minutes post number was 100.
>
> I realize this is not a great victory considering I am taking 2000 mg
> Met per day. However, it has stifled my lust for fruit. At this rate I
> may be able to eat an orange every day. Just being wildly optimistic.
>
> I may try another type of fruit. I am wondering if oranges have less
> impact than other fruit. Pre 2000 mg treatment my 1/3 peach produced a
> 25 point bump. I will try another peach when they come back in season. I
> could try an apple, they have them now at the store.
A book on glycemic index may help you sort that out - or maybe not. In
season, I can handle some fresh cherries or grapes.
BTW - in the winter, I am able to cope with 1/2 grapefruit daily.
And - don't forget the exercise. I only survive with metformin (4x500)
plus low carb diet plus exercise. I slight any one and my numbers soar.
Michael
>
> I do not like oranges or peaches so never tried them. Don't like bananas or
> most fruit really. I do seem to do fine with a handful of dried or fresh
> cranberries (unsweetened), a large apple or little container of applesauce,
> a pear or 1/2 a grapefruit. I do not often eat these things and when I do
> eat them it's not always in the quantity listed. It's often less. Mainly
> when I do eat fruit it is because nothing else is available.
>
>
Julie,
Fresh fruit is pretty damn high on my list of things I miss. It appears
that I will be able to indulge this little vice of mine as long as I am
on Met. Of course, the question I am sure Susan would be asking is
whether taking the Met is worth the indulgence.
It is certainly a valid question.
BTW I have heard that grapefruit is very good for you. I wonder if there
is any particular benefit for T2s.
Michael
Alice Faber
Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Grapefruit is one of my winter fruits. However, I'm not taking any
medications that don't work well with it. You should check the patient
inserts for any meds you're taking because there are some that
specifically warn against consuming too much grapefruit while you're
taking them.
--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest
Michelle C.
Woo-hoo! Great news about being able to enjoy some orange (I'll admit I
have no idea how much 3.6 oz is).
Peaches often prove to be one of the better fruits for T2s so you may
find the result better than before the met. Other good fruit
possibilities are berries. I don't take any meds and while I only
demand that my numbers stay under 140 at one hour, I've found that
strawberries, half a grapefruit and half an apple with peanut butter are
okay.
I can't answer your question about the relationship between IR and met,
but I'm sure someone will be along who can.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Bob
wrote:
Think of it as eating a more healthy diet!
Healthy for mind and body.
Peppermint Patootie
Bob <colds...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >What I have done is started taking Met to allow me to be a little less
> >hard core with my diet. I may be able to eat some fruit now and then.
> >The question of course is whether this is a good course of action just
> >to be able to eat some fruit. It may well not be.
>
> Think of it as eating a more healthy diet!
> Healthy for mind and body.
Quality of life should not be ignored. Sometimes one has to balance
good health care with making life worth living!
PP, T2
Cheri
news:Peppermint_Patootie-...@news.individual.net...
Very true!
Cheri
Michael
Hi Michelle et al.
3.6 ounces of orange is half of a small orange. I would love to try
peaches, but alas they are not available here.
I am hopeful that I can continue the Met and continue to lower my IR if
that is what it is. I cannot be sure which is working actually doing the
best work. I started high dose Met and treadmill at the same time.
I realize this was probably not the best thing to do. Now I cannot tell
whether the Met is helping or not. Maybe both are kicking in. Getting no
perceptible rise from eating that orange on two consecutive days was
pretty gratifying.
My better half is downstairs fixing my lunch. It will as usual be a no
carb lunch. I know I know, there is no such thing as a no carb meal.
That is just for the very technically minded as far as I am concerned. I
will be having an omellete. It will have some cheese, meat, and green
pepper pieces.
And Michelle, it truly does feel like a Woo-hoo! to me. Being able to
eat fruit makes me feel really free about my diet. My low carb eating
method was really kind of a drag without fruit. I should not complain.
My wife has been eating low carb without fruit for 10 years. I kinda
feel like a whiner, but I really wanted that fruit.
Michael
Julie Bove
Many of us are taking a statin so can not have grapefruit. I am on a low
dose, against my wishes, but my Dr. said occasional grapefruit wouldn't
hurt.
Michael
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michael wrote:
>
>> What I would like to know is that if maintaining this control with the
>> help of Met will help lower my IR as if I were not taking Met. Or does
>> the Met negate that progress. This answer would be a serious
>> consideration on whether to continue the Met.
>>
>
> it's very possible, maybe even likely, that you could maintain your new
> insulin sensitivity by continuing controlled carb eating. I have, and
> tests reveal that I am not at all IR, though I am still DM.
>
> My result is no guarantee of your likely result or anyone else's, it's
> just proof that yes, it's possible to restore IS with meds, then
> maintain it without meds.
>
> Susan
Well that sound promising Susan. I can hope. The snow has started coming
down hard here. We will not be getting out of the house for a while. It
is supposed to snow pretty hard until the day after new year's.
I shoveled out the back door today. My wife shoveled off the front door.
This make it possible for us to get out the door in an emergency. We
just have to keep at it. The storm doors open out and they will not open
if you let it get above 6 or 7 inches.
My wife watched me eat those two orange halves. She looked jealous. I
think she might want to start Met now. I will not suggest it. It will be
up to her.
Having fresh fruit in the house would be a little disturbing to me if I
was forbidden to touch it. I can see this could be a problem.
Michael
Michelle C.
>
> And Michelle, it truly does feel like a Woo-hoo! to me. Being able to
> eat fruit makes me feel really free about my diet. My low carb eating
> method was really kind of a drag without fruit. I should not complain.
> My wife has been eating low carb without fruit for 10 years. I kinda
> feel like a whiner, but I really wanted that fruit.
>
> Michael
We all have our particular foods that were our favorites and the trick
is to find out what you can do. In your case, it appears that with
higher dose of met, fruit will be okay once you determine portion size
as you have with the orange.
For me, I missed toast. Luckily, I found Aunt Hattie's Lo carb bread.
And now I can enjoy toast again. Strangely enough, I don't miss
sandwiches at all. If I want a sandwich type food, I use a low carb
tortilla and make a wrap. I really prefer them.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Julie Bove
Really? I keep all sorts of things in the house that I can't eat for one
reason or another. I just tell myself they are not mine and then I don't
eat them.
Julie Bove
"Michelle C." <michelle_of...@ATyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hhivnl$qj9$1...@news.albasani.net...
I actually eat more sandwiches now as a diabetic than I did before. Not
that I eat a lot now. Probably not even one a month. I never really liked
them.
W. Baker
: "Michael" <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
I have been told, by both my endo and my parmacist that eating grapefruit,
in contradisticntion to drinking the juice, is fine sseveral imes a week,
but preferably not at the same meal as the problematic met, ie a statin.
I like a half a small grapefruit as dessert cut pole to pole, rather than
through the equator, and eaten in 3 pieces full length. Just my choice.
Wendy
Wendy
W. Baker
: Thanks for info Bob. The link your supplied is very helpful. It is in my
: T2 favorites folder now. I would never have imagined that cherries would
: be so low. They are one of my favorite fruits. I will try them when they
: reappear in the produce section. I assumed that because I liked them so
: much that they must be full of sugar.
: What I have done is started taking Met to allow me to be a little less
: hard core with my diet. I may be able to eat some fruit now and then.
: The question of course is whether this is a good course of action just
: to be able to eat some fruit. It may well not be.
: Michael
I find that I can manage a small clementine orage or half a mor normal
sized one. inseason 6-10 bing cherries are fine for me, soemthing I
learned only in the las year or two as they tase so sweet adn delishous
that I thought they must be bad. I will use 3-4 cherries in my breakfast
cottage cheese adn ogurt along with some berries or half a clementine or a
smile of canteloup, all topped with yogurt. Works for me, but I don't hae
a current problem with a high fbg.
Wendy
Michael
Maybe I could get my head around that idea. Right now it might be a
problem for my spouse. I don't know. We will see.
I plan to keep fresh fruit in the house. If it does become a problem for
my wife, I will just eat it when I sneak out of the house go to my local
speakeasy fruit stand.
Michael
Michael
I suppose we all have favorite foods that we miss with T2. Mine of
course was fresh fruit. Others miss grains like bread or pasta. I don't
miss that. I would not mind a bowl of Cheerios. But my greatest cravings
have been for fresh fruit.
Maybe we all have different body chemistries that need certain
nutrients. Maybe these cravings come from something we actually need.
Michael
Michelle C.
>>
>> Really? I keep all sorts of things in the house that I can't eat for one
>> reason or another. I just tell myself they are not mine and then I don't
>> eat them.
>>
>>
> Julie,
>
> Maybe I could get my head around that idea. Right now it might be a
> problem for my spouse. I don't know. We will see.
>
> I plan to keep fresh fruit in the house. If it does become a problem for
> my wife, I will just eat it when I sneak out of the house go to my local
> speakeasy fruit stand.
>
> Michael
"Speakeasy fruit stand"~I love it! Good one, Michael!
Michelle C.
Ozgirl
Lol
When I was diagnosed I had 4 kids still at home. I had to do my control
thing with untold amounts of "forbidden" (for me) foods, lying around the
house :) Down to two kids now but the naughty food is still here, just less
of it, lol.
Ozgirl
I personally consider the starches etc as "real" carbs. I don't count the
carbs in things like lettuce, cucumber, celery, most greens, cauliflower
etc. I count sweet potato, corn, potato but not carrots as I don't have a
problem with them or tomatoes.
When I say I eat x amount of carbs a day I count the fruit, breads, starchy
veggies, milks and yoghurts etc. Not the "free" veggies.
Ozgirl
I love toast too, especially at breakfast so I have a piece. Usually with
some eggs or peanut butter. And my one strong cuppa as well... The
psychological boost from the toast is worth any potential spike, but there
isn't one normally anyway.
Ozgirl
I used to eat a wholegrain wheat cereal for brekky (WeetBix) and toast. I
actually don't like cereals now, yyet I lived for them once. I do love
fruit. I ate none for a while after diagnosis then I started eating a bit as
a standalone snack with some fat. Now I can eat fruit without fat. US
cherries in my winter are divine, watermelon, nectarines, peaches, the odd
half a small banana. I like rockmelon as well (cantaloupe to you).
Julie Bove
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:7q569t...@mid.individual.net...
I don't count the veggies either. Dietician told me I was supposed to since
I ate so many of them but discovered I didn't need to.
Julie Bove
One thing (yes there are others) I could never stand was peanut butter on
toast. Now you'd think I'd like it since I like both peanut butter and
toast. There is just something about the hot peanut butter that makes me
physically ill. Like sick to my stomach.
SteveChen
news:l%8%m.438124$sz1.3...@en-nntp-10.dc1.easynews.com:
<snip>
> Maybe I could get my head around that idea. Right now it might be
a
> problem for my spouse. I don't know. We will see.
>
> I plan to keep fresh fruit in the house. If it does become a
problem
> for my wife, I will just eat it when I sneak out of the house go
to my
> local speakeasy fruit stand.
>
> Michael
I think you should have your wife tested as their is a distinct
possiblity you caught your "diabetes" from her.
Ozlover
[...]
> I personally consider the starches etc as "real" carbs. I don't count the
> carbs in things like lettuce, cucumber, celery, most greens, cauliflower
> etc. I count sweet potato, corn, potato but not carrots as I don't have a
> problem with them or tomatoes.
>
> When I say I eat x amount of carbs a day I count the fruit, breads, starchy
> veggies, milks and yoghurts etc. Not the "free" veggies.
In the last few weeks, I have found a great new free food and I have
this group to thank for it!
At breakfast, lunch, dinner and as a bedtime snack, I eat half a sock
in this group. It doesn't raise my BG, which is no wonder, because they
don't have any substance at all. And it's great for my BP and general
well-being. Highly recommended!
Happy new year (also to the socks; they'll need it).
--
Frank Slootweg
4mikesfilters
news:c3557708fc107024...@tioat.net:
> Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:HLX_m.417859
> $8m4.2...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com:
> Hey Michael, did you see a psychiatrist yet for you
hypochondriacal
> obsessions with spot glucose testing?
>
> How ur "filters" working now?
How about now?
asoks
news:01aa53b384d7fe06...@tioat.net:
Yeah that must be it. Caught diabetes from kissing, better go check
you BG again.
Mark_9Smith
$BL3.4...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com:
Eat lots of pinapple with sugar and honey on top.
Let us know when your A1C gets up to 5.1 so we can REALLY worry
about you, ;-)
Ozgirl
But does your sock post from a socks server? :) I can't believe he still
hasn't got it. Well, yes I do believe it.
Cheri
Kurt
> Ozgirl <are_we_there_...@maccas.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I personally consider the starches etc as "real" carbs. I don't count the
> > carbs in things like lettuce, cucumber, celery, most greens, cauliflower
> > etc. I count sweet potato, corn, potato but not carrots as I don't have a
> > problem with them or tomatoes.
>
> > When I say I eat x amount of carbs a day I count the fruit, breads, starchy
> > veggies, milks and yoghurts etc. Not the "free" veggies.
>
> � In the last few weeks, I have found a great new free food and I have
> this group to thank for it!
>
> � At breakfast, lunch, dinner and as a bedtime snack, I eat half a sock
> in this group. It doesn't raise my BG, which is no wonder, because they
> don't have any substance at all. And it's great for my BP and general
> well-being. Highly recommended!
Are they low-cut AND low-carb socks? :)
Kurt
Nicky
wrote:
>I may try another type of fruit. I am wondering if oranges have less
>impact than other fruit.
Oranges are a spiker for me - I usually eat no more than a segment
plus a good chunk of skin (better for you than the fruit :P ) and give
the rest to one of the kids.
Strawberries are effectively a free food for me, as are raspberries
and blueberries - not to mention a great combo with some cream!
I can eat a small apricot or half a peach after midday. A smallish
plum is fine. A small amount of pineapple is also OK - in season, I
buy a fresh one, slice it, and grill the top of a slice till lightly
charred. I might also buy a mango, slice the cheeks off and give it to
the kids, then suck the juice and flesh off the pit.
I tend to take an apple out for a walk, they're around 17g CHO so need
walking off - but given their abilities as a vit C multiplier, they're
worth it occasionally.
I don't eat fruit every day, but it's probably more days than not.
Nicky.
W. Baker
: I tend to take an apple out for a walk, they're around 17g CHO so need
: walking off - but given their abilities as a vit C multiplier, they're
: worth it occasionally.
: I don't eat fruit every day, but it's probably more days than not.
: Nicky.
Nicky, this made quite an interesting image for me just now. You walking
hand in hand with an aapple with little hands and feet. ust couldn't
resist:-) Perhaps you use a leash instead.
Anyway, I find that I can eat mango , about 1/5 o one with my cottage
cheese, etc breakfasst. Makes me very happy! I amon meds, 1500mgs
Metformn EX and 1 mg glimperide at bedtime, so may hve more leeway than
you. I will eat a small fruit as dessert at dinner(otherwise very low
carb) or as an occasional snack. I find tht I cana eaat a couple of dried
apricots as a snack in the afternoon or in the evening after a low carb
dinner. I love the winter when I can get the small clementine oranges as
they do not spike me. Otherwise it is half a regular orange or half an
apple, 1/4 pear, whole peach 2 apricots or small(fallprune) plums.
Berries i can really go to town on and now have rediscovered summer
cherries about 6-10 for a serving.
Wendy
Michelle C.
Yes, and I can tolerate rye toast if I don't have any other carbs.
However, I try to limit that delicacy to once a week. If I eat a piece
every day, even though my bg is okay, I start to feel hungry all the
time. Must raise my insulin, so I've put a stop to it. I hate that
hungry all the time feeling. But hey, I can't complain as long as I
have Aunt Hattie's. It's 5 carbs per slice.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Ozlover
> On Jan 1, 1:59?pm, Ozlover <t...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Ozgirl <are_we_there_...@maccas.com> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I personally consider the starches etc as "real" carbs. I don't count the
> > > carbs in things like lettuce, cucumber, celery, most greens, cauliflower
> > > etc. I count sweet potato, corn, potato but not carrots as I don't have a
> > > problem with them or tomatoes.
> >
> > > When I say I eat x amount of carbs a day I count the fruit, breads, starchy
> > > veggies, milks and yoghurts etc. Not the "free" veggies.
> >
> > this group to thank for it!
> >
> > in this group. It doesn't raise my BG, which is no wonder, because they
> > don't have any substance at all. And it's great for my BP and general
> > well-being. Highly recommended!
>
> Are they low-cut AND low-carb socks? :)
"low-cut" gives me visions I can't/shouldn't discuss in a group like
this, so I'll skip that.
As to low-crap: Of course they're not low-crap! They're FULL of crap!
Don't you pay ANY attantion!? Oops! You said "carb". Never mind.
Anyway, did I mention that they're half-baked? That might be a problem
for some.
--
Frank Slootweg
Loretta Eisenberg
forty five minutes, Usually peak is at two hours. orange is a very
dangerous fruit. You also said you had protein, that protein could
delay a spike, If it were me, I would test at one hour and two hours to
see the effect of the fruit. I dont believe you are getting the true
picture.
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
just in smaller portions. It works for me, because I cant deprivation.
this is what I had for breakfast today, I took a mini weight watchers
bagel and soaked in egg and made bagel french toast, I fried it in pam,
sugar free syrup, just a drop and three slices of very light peach
slices. I was 100 and will test in an hour to see how it affected me.
I think I will be fine as the bagel had 18 carbs and the peaches maybe
two. Its all a game of figuring out what works and doesnt work.
So my point is that I will stay with the 2.000 metformin a day
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
Susan, My doctor said test before a meal and two hours after I am
fine, my a1cs are in the fives. I could see an orange peaking at 45
minutes because it is pure sugar.
I just tested two hours after my french toast bagel and I am 117 and I
am satisfied with that. I like it lower and usually am, but this was
something new for me to try. Next time if I make it I will eliminate
the peaches and use blueberries
Loretta
--
I
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> I went up from 1000 mg per day to 2000 mg per day about 2 weeks ago.
> Yesterday evening I tested 3.6 ounces of orange. I also ate 4 ounces of
> meat with it. My starting BG was 102. After 45 minutes my BG was 100.
> Today I had 3.7 ounces of orange with no meat. My starting BG was 99. My
> 45 minutes post number was 100.
>
> I realize this is not a great victory considering I am taking 2000 mg
> Met per day. However, it has stifled my lust for fruit.
Being less hungry is being less healthy.
This does mean that the higher dose metformin may be causing long-term
harm to you that is comparable to other things that would make you
less hungry.
Be hungrier, which truly is healthier for the heart, soul, and mind:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8?
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopas and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"
"... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor
12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?
What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315?
Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Michael
Loretta,
As you know, I am taking 2000 mg per day of Met. I am not able to eat
anything like the level of carbs you are able to eat. However, I can eat
half an orange now in the evening without even a bump.
Perhaps my tolerance for carbs will improve with time. No way for me to
know.
I did try something yesterday that I was previously completely unable to
eat. I had some blueberries and cottage cheese. My BG went from 90 to
99. I thought that might be OK. However, in the morning my now normal
FBG of about 104 went back up to 122. I suspect there is a connection
between the ingestion of carbs the day before and my FBG the next day.
It is just a theory at this time. However, I told this to my wife and
she said she had had similar problems. So she just wrote off trying
simple carbs.
Michael
Kurt
> We all know that if we eat pizza, the peak could be at three hours,
> Susan, �My doctor said test before a meal and two hours after �I am
If someone only tests at 45 minutes or an hour then they are not
getting a true picture of their post meal bg. Especially if they are
eating low carb, which usually means higher fat, because it will delay
a spike.
Kurt
Happy Oyster
<lov...@thetruth.com> wrote:
>Being less hungry is being less healthy.
That is an idiotic claim.
.
--
Die volle H�rte: http://www.kindersprechstunde.at
***************************************************************
Die Medienmafia � Die Regividerm-Verschw�rung
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/showtopic.php?threadid=5710
Michael
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
>> We all know that if we eat pizza, the peak could be at three hours,
>> Susan, My doctor said test before a meal and two hours after I am
>> fine, my a1cs are in the fives. I could see an orange peaking at 45
>> minutes because it is pure sugar.
>
> written about. But protein causes a stronger and hours longer insulin
> response than carbs do, and will usually prevent a peak, not delay it.
> Fat, OTOH, can delay a peak, as you say.
>
> Susan
My wife makes little pizzas out of large portabella mushrooms use as a
crust. They are pretty good and contain a minuscule amount of carbs.
These drive down my BG.
And yes, I did measure at 45 minutes for that orange because I figured
that the sugar was going to hit me pretty quick.
I have measured 2 and 3 hours out from meals. These measurements are
always lower than a one hour reading. So, I don't bother measuring this
anymore. I already burn plenty of strips per day as it is.
I am glad to hear about the fat versus protein. I did not realize that
fat only delayed a peak. Protein appears to be the winner here.
Michael
Kurt
Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
> Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:e3e453e4-c774-4825-bddb-76b90a98cd14
> @j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
> know anything about.
Nylon blend socks? Nice try at a clever insult, but that didn't really
work as an image did it. Better luck next time.
But in regards to a sock discussion, I'd have to defer to you since
you seem to be a professional and chronic sock. And you chose the "no
archive" feature. Interesting....
Kurt
Cheri
news:ec096360-2475-4ebb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 3, 12:07�pm, "Mike_Peterson435" <Mike_Peterson...@Use-Author-
Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Are they low-cut AND low-carb socks? :)
>
> > Kurt
>
> Stick to eating nylon blend socks Kurt, those are the only ones you
> know anything about.
Nylon blend socks? Nice try at a clever insult, but that didn't really
work as an image did it. Better luck next time.
===========
I can't say I really got it either.
Cheri
Loretta Eisenberg
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
like a couple of crackers with peanut butter, my numbers are normal in
the morning.
cottage cheese is protein and the blueberries, depending on how many you
had might not protect you from the dp.
Did you test your bgs before you went to bed.
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
for the feet. I wish I could remember what it was.
Loretta
--
I
Michael
No Loretta, I did not take my BG at bedtime. I also failed to have my
rum. However, It seems now that if I avoid carbs all day my FBG in the
AM is down about 104.
I suspect the Met has kicked in.
I had the cottage cheese and blueberries at about 7 PM. I went to bed at
midnight.
So my BG was 90 before the blueberries and cottage cheese. It was 99
forty five minutes after. I had only a cheese snack later.
I am wondering if this little bump, but big carb intake, caused the 122
FBG in the AM. I realize it was a liver dump, but perhaps liver dumps
are influenced by the amount of carbs we eat the day before. Only a
slight theory.
Should I be testing at bedtime?
Michael
Michael
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:49:58 -0600, Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/3/2010 9:41 AM, Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
>>> Michael I take 2000 mgs of metformin. It allows me to eat normlly but
>>> just in smaller portions. It works for me, because I cant deprivation.
>>> this is what I had for breakfast today, I took a mini weight watchers
>>> bagel and soaked in egg and made bagel french toast, I fried it in pam,
>>> sugar free syrup, just a drop and three slices of very light peach
>>> slices. I was 100 and will test in an hour to see how it affected me.
>>> I think I will be fine as the bagel had 18 carbs and the peaches maybe
>>> two. Its all a game of figuring out what works and doesnt work.
>>>
>>> So my point is that I will stay with the 2.000 metformin a day
>>>
>>> Loretta
>>>
>>> --
>>> I
>>>
>>
>>
>> Loretta,
>>
>> As you know, I am taking 2000 mg per day of Met. I am not able to eat
>> anything like the level of carbs you are able to eat. However, I can eat
>> half an orange now in the evening without even a bump.
>
>
> account. Mornings tend to be the most carb sensitive part of the day.
Yes, I learned that here. I only eat test a carb meal in the evening.
>>
>> Perhaps my tolerance for carbs will improve with time. No way for me to
>> know.
>
> Yes there is. BG testing.
What I meant was that there was no way for me to know now. I know that
testing later will tell me.
>
>>
>> I did try something yesterday that I was previously completely unable to
>> eat. I had some blueberries and cottage cheese. My BG went from 90 to
>> 99. I thought that might be OK. However, in the morning my now normal
>> FBG of about 104 went back up to 122. I suspect there is a connection
>> between the ingestion of carbs the day before and my FBG the next day.
>
> If that was your bedtime snack then yes it was related. It would not
> have lasted through the night. Even though it was a low glycemic
> snack it was still a short acting carb. What you experienced was a
> slight impact from dawn phenomenon. This is a natural occurrence in
> all people as the body prepares to wake. The liver releases stored
> glycogen which is converted to glucose to provide energy for a quick
> response when waking up.
Mack
It was not my bedtime snack. It was taken 5 hours before bedtime. I am
just wondering whether carb intake the day before can influence FBG the
next AM.
>
> Unfortunately in diabetics this can be a problem. Mostly for type 2s,
> because type 1s can knock it down quickly with a light breakfast and
> insulin.
>
> Keep in mind that your 122 BG in the morning is nothing to get upset
> over. You can work to get it a bit lower, but don't lose any sleep
> over it.
Yes, you are right. I am just trying to connect where there difference
comes from between a 104 FBG and a 122.
>
> One way to control it is your bedtime snack. Some eat crackers and
> lunch meats, others crackers and peanut butter. What they are doing
> is having a small amount of carbs with a specific amount of protein.
> The exact amount that works differs from person to person. And you
> being type 2 can't follow what I eat as a type 1.
>
> So it would be a weird snack but you could have the blueberries and
> cream again but add some kind of protein before or afterwards. The
> carbs are used up before dawn and the protein converts (at least in
> part) to glucose much more slowly. This causes the body to react to
> the steady glucose level by not releasing the stored glycogen or not
> as much. Because the body detects you don't need as much.
Eating a carb snack at bedtime would be very easy for me. However, it
does not seem to do any good. Eating protein at bedtime did not seem to
help either. However, I was recommended here to try some alcohol at
bedtime. I discovered that 1.7 ounces of rum will knock my FBG down so
that there does not even appear to be a bump between my evening values
and morning AM FBG. This treatment is very consistent. However, I have
not been consistent in drinking it. I am not a fan of alcohol. It just
doesn't do anything for me. I also have to have a slice or two of swiss
cheese with my rum. I need this not to wake up in the middle of the
night with an acid stomach from the rum. I can only say that this
combination has been a very consistent block to a FBG bump. The next
test to do I suppose is to have my cottage cheese an blueberries and
then the rum at bedtime.
>
>>
>> It is just a theory at this time. However, I told this to my wife and
>> she said she had had similar problems. So she just wrote off trying
>> simple carbs.
>>
>> Michael
>
> Don't give up on it just modify it a bit. The type 2s will explain
> what works for them with dawn phenomenon.
>
See explanation above. I am not giving up. My wife gave up 10 years ago
and just doesn't eat carbs. This has worked well for her. Her only
complaint is that after 10 years of this treatment she get very low BG
episodes if she starts concentrating on some task or hobby. If she does
not eat for 4 to 6 hours her BG will drop to around 50. She becomes
scatter brained and cannot remember what to do or even where she is. She
also turns cold and starts shivering. I always know what to do. I give
her vegetables to eat right away and some cheese. She complains about
this aspect of T2. I am envious. I never ever have low BG. Maybe if I
eat like her for 10 years I will begin having low BG episodes. BTW, she
takes no drugs. She believes all the drugs are bad for you. Maybe she is
right. I know Susan does not think much of Met. I feel a little bad
taking it because plenty of other people don't and still have good T2
control. I just wanted to eat fruit so bad.
Michael
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> M�ck�� wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that your 122 BG in the morning is nothing to get upset
>> over.
>
>
> A citation from www.phlaunt.com/diabetes:
This URL minus the : is a really cool spot. I have much to read here. It
has answers to so very many of my questions. I love all the charts. They
tell the story.
>
>
> Beta Cells Die Off in People Whose Fasting Blood Sugar is Over 110 mg/dl
> (6.1 mmol/L)
>
> An intriguing study shows the severe organ damage experienced by people
> whose blood sugar falls into a range most doctors consider to be
> near-normal. A team of researchers autopsied the pancreases of deceased
> patients who were known to have had fasting blood sugars that tested
> between 110 mg/dl and 125 mg/dl within two years of their deaths. The
> researchers found that these patients, whose blood sugar was not high
> enough for them to be diagnosed as diabetic, had already lost, on
> average, 40% of their insulin-producing beta cells.
>
> Since the American Diabetes Association believes that a fasting blood
> sugar level of 100 mg/dl to 125 mg/dl corresponds to a 2-hour glucose
> tolerance levels of 140 mg/dl to 199 mg/dl, this suggests that patients
> whose post-meal blood sugars rise only to the non-diabetic "impaired"
> level may be well on the way to losing as much as 40% of their beta cell
> mass. It also suggests that people with abnormal glucose tolerance who
> wish to avoid further beta cell loss should try to keep their blood
> sugars under 140 mg/dl at all times.
Wow Susan! and most everyone here thought I was just paranoid and
obsessive. There really is a plot to kill me. Slight elevations is BG
are clearly deadly. Those little numbers on my meter are pointing a gun
at me.
Really, after reading this do you think my effort to bring my BG to
below 100 is a little obsessive?
Please note there is some degree of humour intended here. I didn't mean
to really anthropomorphize my meter.
Michael
>
> Beta-cell deficit and increased beta-cell apoptosis in humans with type
> 2 diabetes. Butler AE, Janson J, Bonner-Weir S, Ritzel R, Rizza RA,
> Butler PC.Diabetes. 2003;52:102-110.
>
>
> Susan
Michael
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:49:58 -0600, Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> Michael I take 2000 mgs of metformin. It allows me to eat normlly but
>>> just in smaller portions. It works for me, because I cant deprivation.
>>> this is what I had for breakfast today, I took a mini weight watchers
>>> bagel and soaked in egg and made bagel french toast, I fried it in pam,
>>> sugar free syrup, just a drop and three slices of very light peach
>>> slices. I was 100 and will test in an hour to see how it affected me.
>>> I think I will be fine as the bagel had 18 carbs and the peaches maybe
>>> two. Its all a game of figuring out what works and doesnt work.
>>>
>>> So my point is that I will stay with the 2.000 metformin a day
>>>
>>> Loretta
>>>
>>> --
>>> I
>>>
>>
>>
>> Loretta,
>>
>> As you know, I am taking 2000 mg per day of Met. I am not able to eat
>> anything like the level of carbs you are able to eat. However, I can eat
>> half an orange now in the evening without even a bump.
>
>
> account. Mornings tend to be the most carb sensitive part of the day.
Yes, I learned that here. I only eat test a carb meal in the evening.
>>
>> Perhaps my tolerance for carbs will improve with time. No way for me to
>> know.
>
> Yes there is. BG testing.
What I meant was that there was no way for me to know now. I know that
testing later will tell me.
>
>>
>> I did try something yesterday that I was previously completely unable to
>> eat. I had some blueberries and cottage cheese. My BG went from 90 to
>> 99. I thought that might be OK. However, in the morning my now normal
>> FBG of about 104 went back up to 122. I suspect there is a connection
>> between the ingestion of carbs the day before and my FBG the next day.
>
> If that was your bedtime snack then yes it was related. It would not
> have lasted through the night. Even though it was a low glycemic
> snack it was still a short acting carb. What you experienced was a
> slight impact from dawn phenomenon. This is a natural occurrence in
> all people as the body prepares to wake. The liver releases stored
> glycogen which is converted to glucose to provide energy for a quick
> response when waking up.
Mack
It was not my bedtime snack. It was taken 5 hours before bedtime. I am
just wondering whether carb intake the day before can influence FBG the
next AM.
>
> Unfortunately in diabetics this can be a problem. Mostly for type 2s,
> because type 1s can knock it down quickly with a light breakfast and
> insulin.
>
> Keep in mind that your 122 BG in the morning is nothing to get upset
>> It is just a theory at this time. However, I told this to my wife and
>> she said she had had similar problems. So she just wrote off trying
>> simple carbs.
>>
>> Michael
>
Michael
No Loretta, I did not take my BG at bedtime. I also failed to have my
Michael
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:49:58 -0600, Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> Michael I take 2000 mgs of metformin. It allows me to eat normlly but
>>> just in smaller portions. It works for me, because I cant deprivation.
>>> this is what I had for breakfast today, I took a mini weight watchers
>>> bagel and soaked in egg and made bagel french toast, I fried it in pam,
>>> sugar free syrup, just a drop and three slices of very light peach
>>> slices. I was 100 and will test in an hour to see how it affected me.
>>> I think I will be fine as the bagel had 18 carbs and the peaches maybe
>>> two. Its all a game of figuring out what works and doesnt work.
>>>
>>> So my point is that I will stay with the 2.000 metformin a day
>>>
>>> Loretta
>>>
>>> --
>>> I
>>>
>>
>>
>> Loretta,
>>
>> As you know, I am taking 2000 mg per day of Met. I am not able to eat
>> anything like the level of carbs you are able to eat. However, I can eat
>> half an orange now in the evening without even a bump.
>
>
> account. Mornings tend to be the most carb sensitive part of the day.
Yes, I learned that here. I only eat test a carb meal in the evening.
>>
>> Perhaps my tolerance for carbs will improve with time. No way for me to
>> know.
>
> Yes there is. BG testing.
What I meant was that there was no way for me to know now. I know that
testing later will tell me.
>
>>
>> I did try something yesterday that I was previously completely unable to
>> eat. I had some blueberries and cottage cheese. My BG went from 90 to
>> 99. I thought that might be OK. However, in the morning my now normal
>> FBG of about 104 went back up to 122. I suspect there is a connection
>> between the ingestion of carbs the day before and my FBG the next day.
>
Mack
test to do I suppose is to have my cottage cheese and blueberries and
then the rum at bedtime.
>
>>
>> It is just a theory at this time. However, I told this to my wife and
>> she said she had had similar problems. So she just wrote off trying
>> simple carbs.
>>
>> Michael
>
> Don't give up on it just modify it a bit. The type 2s will explain
> what works for them with dawn phenomenon.
>
See explanation above. I am not giving up. My wife gave up 10 years ago
and just doesn't eat carbs. This has worked well for her. Her only
complaint is that after 10 years of this treatment she get very low BG
episodes if she starts concentrating on some task or hobby. If she does
not eat for 4 to 6 hours her BG will drop to around 50. She becomes
scatter brained and cannot remember what to do or even where she is. She
also turns cold and starts shivering. I always know what to do. I give
her vegetables to eat right away and some cheese. She complains about
this aspect of T2. I am envious. I never ever have low BG. Maybe if I
eat like her for 10 years I will begin having low BG episodes. BTW, she
takes no drugs. She believes all the drugs are bad for you. Maybe she is
right. I know Susan does not think much of Met. I feel a little bad
taking it because plenty of other people don't and still have good T2
control. I just wanted to eat fruit so bad.
Michael
BTW Mack, I have started a regular treadmill routine now. This has
already made me feel better.
Michael
Also note trouble I am having with my computer or server.
Michael
Michelle C.
Michael, the cheese is not adequate to prevent dawn phenomena. You need
a food that will release carbs during the night. I know it sounds
counter-intuitive, but here's how it works:
As you probably already know, when a person's bg gets too low, the liver
helps out by releasing glucose. It's a great system in non-diabetics.
For us it can cause dawn phenomena. The reason for that is that the
liver does not actually detect glucose levels; it detects insulin
levels. So while a diabetic's insulin level may fall during the night
just like everyone else's, because we are not eating, our glucose may
still be adequate or in some diabetics even elevated. So when the liver
detects that low insulin level and releases glucose it just makes our
bgs worse.
So a diabetic who experiences dawn phenomena needs to eat a low glycemic
carb, or a carb/fat snack, or protein--@58% of protein is converted to
glucose, albeit very slowly--or some combination thereof in order to
keep the insulin level up above the level that the liver doesn't help
out. Fat does not affect insulin so it will do you no good at all.
I hope this explanation helps.
Michelle C.
Ozgirl
> I did try something yesterday that I was previously completely unable
> to eat. I had some blueberries and cottage cheese. My BG went from 90
> to 99. I thought that might be OK. However, in the morning my now normal
> FBG of about 104 went back up to 122. I suspect there is a connection
> between the ingestion of carbs the day before and my FBG the next day.
>
> It is just a theory at this time. However, I told this to my wife and
> she said she had had similar problems. So she just wrote off trying
> simple carbs.
I'd go for more protein at bedtime and a carb that was a bit slower. Push
the blueberries and cottage cheese over to an afternoon snack and for
bedtime try something like a chicken leg and rye cracker with peanut butter.
Or hard boiled eggs and rye cracker, I spread mine with mayo first. A can of
of tuna in oil with the cracker works for me also. Keeps fruits away from
the early morinng and late evening.
Ozgirl
> It was not my bedtime snack. It was taken 5 hours before bedtime. I am
> just wondering whether carb intake the day before can influence FBG
> the next AM.
Ah, the plot thickens. Are you saying that you last ate 5 hours before bed?
My bg goes up if I have gaps larger than 2-3 hours between meals or snacks.
If I last ate 5 hours before bed then I would be guaranteed a significant
dawn phenomenon result. I eat dinner around 7 pm and I have my bedtime snack
right before bed about 10'ish. Little and often is the key to euglycemia.
Ozgirl
> We all know that if we eat pizza, the peak could be at three hours,
> Susan, My doctor said test before a meal and two hours after I am
> fine, my a1cs are in the fives. I could see an orange peaking at 45
> minutes because it is pure sugar.
>
> am satisfied with that. I like it lower and usually am, but this was
> something new for me to try. Next time if I make it I will eliminate
> the peaches and use blueberries
If I am trying a new fruit I always start testing at around 15 minutes
afterwards. Fruit is one of those foods that starts showing a response in bg
almost immediately. Remember we drink juice for hypo remedies. Even a 45
minute test may not show the first spike after fruit. Once I am convinced
the fruit (and quantity) is fine I don't test it again so rigorously.
Ozgirl
> I am glad to hear about the fat versus protein. I did not realize that
> fat only delayed a peak. Protein appears to be the winner here.
Fat doesn't delay my peaks, it prevents spikes. It flattens the curve for
me. Eating a lot of fat with carb for me just stops any spike. I don't eat a
lot of fat normally but for foods like pizza etc I am ok - with quantity
control that is.
Ozgirl
> Kurt <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>
> Stick to eating nylon blend socks Kurt, those are the only ones you
> know anything about.
Thats rich coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between
posting on a different server as a sock puppet (to try and avoid killfiles)
and posting on a socks server.
Julie Bove
"Michael" <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:lqb0n.3435$o06....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
How could cottage cheese and blueberries be a big carb intake? Unless you
ate a ton of them... And yes, you probably should test at bedtime.
Julie Bove
Good grief! She is having hypos and giving her vegetables and cheese is the
WRONG thing to do. She needs to eat carbs!
Michael
If I rescued her with a carb snack she would be quite upset later.
Michael
Julie Bove
Okay. Let her die then!
ver...@gefinden.com
> Met per day. However, it has stifled my lust for fruit.
"Being less hungry is being less healthy.
This does mean that the higher dose metformin may be causing long-term
harm to you that is comparable to other things that would make you less
hungry.
Be hungrier, which truly is healthier for the heart, soul, and mind:"
Before considering accepting or acting upon the opinions of andrew chung
on any topic, please read at least 3 of his other posts. Quickly you
will percieve clearly the truth of this warning. Any question his
opinion might suggest to you should be confirmed always with an expert
or others in the newsgroup.
Michael
>>>
>>> Good grief! She is having hypos and giving her vegetables and cheese is
>>> the
>>> WRONG thing to do. She needs to eat carbs!
>>>
>>>
>> She does not eat carbs Julie. She gave them up 10 years ago.
>>
>> If I rescued her with a carb snack she would be quite upset later.
>
> Okay. Let her die then!
>
>
No Julie,
She is not dying. She just has low BG. It takes a little bit longer for
her to recover with a salad and cheese, than someone who would be taking
simple carbs. But this way she retains her low insulin resistance. I
make salads. I keep them ready in the refrigerator. I also have been on
her case to start setting a timer when she starts her photography hobby
stuff, so that she will remember to eat.
I don't think people die from low BG when they are not taking drugs.
Michael
Michael
Thanks Michelle,
I have been trying to force myself to drink a shot of rum at bedtime.
This stops my dawn phenomena. I am not a big fan of alcohol so it has
become somewhat hard to discipline myself to drink this at night.
My wife is lucky. She stopped having liver dumps after not eating carbs
for about 6 years. Maybe the same thing would happen to me if I followed
her example. You never really know about these things.
Thanks for the info about fat. Now I know that this will never help.
Eating meat at bedtime is even harder for me to do than alcohol. I guess
the rum is the lesser of the two evils. Not really evils but unpleasant
foods.
Michael
Michael
Well, I admit to having had a fair amount of that treat. I had a whole
cup of cottage cheese and about a quarter cup of blueberries. I guess I
kind of went a little crazy. I was a little enthused about my new found
tolerance for carbs.
Michael
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>a sockpuppet wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>> a sockpuppet wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Vat is a normal part of all humans.
>>>>
>>>>"Incorrect.
>>>>
>>>>It remains an abnormal (harmful) part of many humans."
>>>
>>>"Many" does not save you from not having kept up on the research in this
>>>area. It is exactly as stated, happy to entertain any standard review
>>>of the subject you want to provide which speaks directly to the role of
>>>vat in all people.
>>
>>"Recent studies suggest that inflammation of visceral adipose tissue,
>>ectopic fat deposition and adipose tissue dysfunction mediate insulin
>>resistance in human obesity independently of total body fat mass."
>>
>>Source:
>>
>>Curr Opin Lipidol. 2009 Nov 12. [Epub ahead of print]
>>
>>PubMed link:
>>
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19915462
>
>Smile ...
Source:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/47c7bf2798ba71d1?
This physician's smile is to your chagrin.
>... exactly what I asked you not do.
Incorrect.
Exactly what you were hoping this physician would not be able to do.
> You were to show us about the
> role of vat in all people.
Indeed, that which is written in generalities as this cited article
has applicability to all people and not just diabetics as underscored
by the additional fact that this article is not from a medical journal
specializing in diabetes.
Thus, problems start with any amount of VAT because it remains
pathological.
The cause of VAT is not eating the right amount of daily food.
Accordingly, the only way to lose the VAT is to eat the right amount
of daily food:
Bottom line concerning your feigned issues with the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba8379f6c69b4310?
<><
There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?
Being hungrier truly is healthier especially for diabetics and other
heart disease patients:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/63d9553d4c7b8f7b?
Ken
(What else would you expect from a mentally confused idiot like
chung?)
Bottom line concerning chung:
Chung has been around for quite a few years now, and over time (last
5 years or so) his posts have degenerated from once being helpful and
knowledgeable to now being consumed with religion and what seems a
paranoid belief in his 2lb diet.
Very sad to a see a once clever man go down the gurgler like this,
but that is unfortunately the nature of his disease - most likely
schizophrenia
CCPed from "David"
Julie Bove
Seriously? So if they are driving a car and they get a hypo, they are going
to think correctly and not get into a wreck? Tell that to my cousin who
did! What if they are operating machinery? You say she won't pass out? I
did! You need to get real and so does she!
Michael
Julie,
She has never passed out. I have seen her cognitive abilities diminish
pretty drastically, but she has not passed out. She does not take drugs,
which I believe can cause a serious problem if you are not careful. I
know that insulin can actually cause death.
She almost never drives. I drive us everywhere. I always have. When we
make a trip, we bring food in the car. We have emergency canned Vienna
sausages in our car all the time. We know these are not the best
nutritional food around but they are handy for emergencies.
The absolute worst case scenario was once when I actually had to feed
her. I have no idea why she gets low BG levels when she does not eat. My
BG does the opposite. She is in a mode now where she needs to watch
herself from getting too low rather than too high. Like I said, I am in
BG level envy. She simply never has high FBG levels anymore. That
stopped years ago. Her BG levels when she is eating properly are in the
80s. She has done a really great job of treating herself for T2.
Like I said before, she quit eating carbs over 10 years ago. I should
just do the same thing she did. I need to get over my obsession with
fresh fruit and stop taking Met.
She is on a project today. I have learned to try and remember to
interrupt her and invite her to eat with me. I will do that today.
If there was a chance of her dying from low BG, I would take this much
more seriously, but since she does not take drugs, We both think she is
safe.
Michael
Michelle C.
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>
>>
>> Michael, the cheese is not adequate to prevent dawn phenomena. You
>> need a food that will release carbs during the night. I know it
>> sounds counter-intuitive, but here's how it works:
>>
>> As you probably already know, when a person's bg gets too low, the
>> liver helps out by releasing glucose. It's a great system in
>> non-diabetics. For us it can cause dawn phenomena. The reason for
>> that is that the liver does not actually detect glucose levels; it
>> detects insulin levels. So while a diabetic's insulin level may fall
>> during the night just like everyone else's, because we are not eating,
>> our glucose may still be adequate or in some diabetics even elevated.
>> So when the liver detects that low insulin level and releases glucose
>> it just makes our bgs worse.
>>
>> So a diabetic who experiences dawn phenomena needs to eat a low
>> glycemic carb, or a carb/fat snack, or protein--@58% of protein is
>> converted to glucose, albeit very slowly--or some combination thereof
>> in order to keep the insulin level up above the level that the liver
>> doesn't help out. Fat does not affect insulin so it will do you no
>> good at all.
>
>
> through the night is protein, and it also causes a steady insulin
> release over a long period. By lowering HGH release, it dampens the
> cortisol rise that's responsible for dawn phenomenon.
>
> Interestingly, though, such snacks or variations on them have not
> reduced Michael's fbg where alcohol has. Wonder if it's keeping the
> liver busy, or because alcohol, too, lowers cortisol?
>
> Susan
Hi Susan,
Yes, I've noticed Michael's success with the alcohol. It is an
interesting question as to why it works (or perhaps both reasons in
concert?). While I don't have DP, alcohol lowers my bg whatever time of
the day I imbibe, and I've always assumed it was because my liver was busy.
It would seem to me that protein is the best food for heading off dp
too, but it seems others have had success with other combinations. I
couldn't remember what Michael has tried and what he hadn't as far as food.
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
Hi Michael,
I, too, would have problems with the nightly alcohol, as limited amounts
tend to knock me on my butt. However, I rely on protein for extended
satiation. I eat some at every meal. You need to think of these things
as medicine.
In any case, at least you're gaining an understanding of what works.
Perhaps in time your dp will disappear. I think some here on ASD have
reported that theirs went away too.
Michelle C.
Michael
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I, too, would have problems with the nightly alcohol, as limited amounts
> tend to knock me on my butt. However, I rely on protein for extended
> satiation. I eat some at every meal. You need to think of these things
> as medicine.
>
> In any case, at least you're gaining an understanding of what works.
>
> Perhaps in time your dp will disappear. I think some here on ASD have
> reported that theirs went away too.
>
> Michelle C.
Hi Michelle,
I have tried the usual suspects for a night time snack. None of them had
any effect. The alcohol seems to be a very consistent winner. I started
with 2 oz. I have now gone down to 1.7 oz and that still works. I use
rum. I have to have a couple of slices of swiss cheese to keep the
alcohol from giving me acid stomach at night.
Someone here gave me this hint. I can't remember his name. It looks like
this cure for dp is pretty common. It is also fairly cheap medicine.
I do eat protein through the day. These meals consistently knock down my
BG.
Yesterday I put an entire tomato in a salad. It was a neutral meal after
one hour. Of course maybe the tomato had some slower effect that I did
not measure. I don't ordinarily measure past an hour.
Michael
Jan Drew
> �Happy O said: That is an idiotic claim.
> (What else would you expect from a mentally confused idiot like
> chung?)
>
OrgName: Earthlink, Inc.
OrgID: EARTH-19
Address: 1375 PEACHTREE STREET
Address: LEVEL A
City: ATLANTA
StateProv: GA
PostalCode: 30309
Country: US
Profile:
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Title: chemist, mechanic, 60's radical
Industry: Scientific
Email address: flakey...@aol.com
Shows you are a liar and a troll.
Ken
While the above PROVES you don't know shit, crap, poopie, caca,
doodie, or diddly squat.
Haven't been in Georgia since 1969---for Basic and AIT, FOOL
Lookup IP Address: 66.245.37.81
Hostname: user-11fa9ah.dsl.mindspring.com
ISP: EarthLink
Organization: EarthLink
Proxy: None detected
Type: Cable/DSL
Geo-Location Information
Country: United States
State/Region: CA
City: Oakland
Latitude: 37.795
Longitude: -122.2193
Area Code: 510
%
Loretta Eisenberg
comfortable then do it. If you had that snack at seven and went to bed
at twelve without any carbs, I feel that you definitely had a liver dump
Loretta
--
I
Kurt
> On 1/3/2010 9:27 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>
>
> >news:dIb0n.4386$H15....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
> >> On 1/3/2010 12:24 PM, M ck wrote:
Doesn't eat carbs? Really?
Here are a couple of other comments you made just today that I think
are very strange:
MICHAEL: "I don't think people die from low BG when they are not
taking drugs."
MICHAEL: "However, I was recommended here to try some alcohol at
bedtime. I discovered that 1.7 ounces of rum will knock my FBG down"
MICHAEL: "However, It seems now that if I avoid carbs all day my FBG
in the AM is down about 104."
MICHAEL: "Like I said before, she quit eating carbs over 10 years ago.
I should just do the same thing she did."
If you are for real, which I am still highly skeptical of, you need to
see an endo who specializes in diabetes...and see them like yesterday.
Basing your diabetes control on a patchwork quilt of ideas from
strangers on the Internet who don't know your particular needs can be
dangerous.
Diabetes is a complicated disease and you seem to be complicating even
further with your amateur approach.
If you are just playing a character here for grins...well, then you
have a whole different set of issues.
Kurt
Ken
%
"Ken" <flak...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4d5ddb6f-f950-44be...@22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
want you photo your phone or your address next