A question for Etznab

[Doug]

Etznab,

Someone wrote to me recently about a post of yours, where you
mentioned that Paul once said that Sudar Singh had a son who went to
Harvard.

Can you track down the tape that you heard this on? I'd like to listen
to it.

Here's what you said, to refresh your memory:

On Jul 12, 11:34 am, Etznab <etz...@aol.com> wrote:

"Paul mentioned something about having met a beggar when he was 17 or
18 years old. That he had already
been to India and back and it didn't impress him much at the time.
Whether that was India, or the beggar I'm
not sure (will have to check)."

It was 1969 when Paul mentioned about 17, or 18 years old, etc. The
same year he mentioned that Sudar Singh
was a married man and had a son that went to Oxford. I want to clarify
this part about India, however, and him not being impressed.

I have to go back and listen to the 1969 tape first, though when
reading through D.O.B.T.L.E.M. I saw where Paul
did mention not being impressed with India, the ashram life there,
etc. Not Sudar Singh's ashram though. In fact,
it appears Paul was very impressed with Sudar Singh. It was somewhere
around p. 40-45 in that book. And then
on p. 46 he starts talking about the ashrams in India.

Etznab end of snip

Thanks.

Doug.

[Etznab]

Doug,

Was that Harvard or Oxford?

I'll check my notes to see which.

Etznab

[Etznab]

On Jun 17, 2:14 pm, Doug <d.mar...@littleknownpubs.com> wrote:

Doug,

I remember writing about this subject before.

Searching a.r.e. archives for keyword Oxford I found the word
mentioned in 2nd post on the Square One thread, July 11th, 2010.

http://tinyurl.com/3vv2mdo

The thread you mentioned, dated July 12th, 2010 (one day later)
appeared after searching for keyword Oxford in author's posts (in the
profile section for Etznab). However, the post you quoted from did not
come up after searching for keyword Oxford in the Search this group
option at a.r.e. I am talking about the a.r.e. thread: Sudar Singh's
Search for Truth.

http://tinyurl.com/4284kk4

In response to your question about what tape? Well, I believe it was
from a tape recording of the 1969 World Wide of ECK (Los Angeles
California). Tape # 4107 (Copyright 1975), side one: "The Nirat-Surat
Techniques".

Listen to around 1/5 way into the tape. Before the topic about soul
mates, but after the parts about Eck Masters not interfering in
history; and after the section about a girl in a mini skirt. For
"educational purposes" this is my attempt to quote the words spoken by
Paul Twitchell. For context, you would have to get the audiotape and
listen for yourself.

"[...] Most of the masters I knew - and I've found them in many lines
- were married people. Sudar Singh was a married man. He had a son
that went to Oxford. [....]"

Let me know if I didn't illustrated that quote OK. If ther's is a
better way to do it.

Etznab

[Etznab]

On this subject (from a post where the reply option is no longer an
option) someone wrote (quoting snippet taken out of context):

"That the Paris France business was NEVER Sudar Singh, but he rolled
up what he had read about Hazrut Inayat Khan into the Sudar Singh
story to put some meat on the bones."

http://tinyurl.com/4284kk4

Just for the record, Hazrat Inayat Khan was a married man, had a son
(educated at Oxford).

"Vilayat Inayat Khan was educated at the Sorbonne, Oxford, and École
Normale de Musique de Paris."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayat_Inayat_Khan

This trivia is not to state for a fact that I know (for sure that)
Sudar Singh was used as a pseudonym for part of the history of Hazrat
Inayat Khan. I only mention it because (in context to part of what
Sean wrote) it looked curios to me. Also, because Sean's post appeared
on the thread that Doug quoted from.

How does one look up alumni records for Oxford to see whether anybody
had a father who's name was Sudar Singh? If that can be found, it
might be a good place to start looking for verifiable biographical
records on Sudar Singh.

Etznab

[Etznab]

So was it you? or the person who contacted you that got the information wrong?

Doug?

It was Oxford, not Harvard, but why didn't you even know that? Doug?

I came back to revisit this thread since I wanted to look at your response, but I didn't find a response (Not on this thread. I'll search for responses on the others.)

[Etznab]

It looks like spring of 2010 when Doug's a.r.e. activity began to wane.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!activity/alt.religion.eckankar/sOEhViiPPXwJ

The question by Doug came up in June 2011 (followed by a little activity) and then NO ACTIVITY on a.r.e. for two years???

Will have to search those few posts prior to the hiatus to review how much Doug did, or did not have to say about Sudar Singh (according to Paul) being a married man with a son who went to Oxford.

[Etznab]

On Friday, June 17, 2011 at 2:14:16 PM UTC-5, Doug wrote:

Why didn't you already know about this?

"One of the projects I took on was to organize Paul's orginal taped talks, which had been abandoned in a loft there. It was a mess. I listened to everyone of Paul's talks at least a dozen times, as I tried to sort out when and where it took place, and to splice them back together into their original form."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/hfDu3l93xxU/s0oDVebTyEkJ

Doug?

[Etznab]

Is it possible most all of the apologists and spin meisters who used to frequent this site have now all but gone because the evidence I've been presenting became overwhelming over the years?

Iow. They have reached the stage of acceptance? The final stage for death of an ideal?

[Kinpa]

It is not healthy to flatter yourself this way...

[Etznab]

It is possible that for his various writings (plagiarized, paraphrased, etc.) Paul Twitchell originally cited his sources. Such as with The Flute of God?

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/56U-w_TghZU/3EBuPOUSBAAJ

It was published in Orion Magazine years ago ... maybe he did not cite his sources?; Since Orion discontinued his writings for having plagiarized large sections from a book by Thomas Troward!

Cited, or not (maybe Twitchell's notes - all those carbon copies of typed text - contained the citations?), we can see examples of plagiarization, paraphrase and copying to this day. And the crediting of various authors creative works to what Paul Twitchell described as Eck Masters.

Eck Master Rebazar Tarzs for example:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/56U-w_TghZU/Wk0JABuZBwAJ

A name given as source for more than one author.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/56U-w_TghZU/UwzwJbKZBwAJ

I wrote:

"[...] Is it possible most all of the apologists and spin meisters who used to frequent this site have now all but gone because the evidence I've been presenting became overwhelming over the years?

"Iow. They have reached the stage of acceptance? The final stage for death of an ideal?"

I'm glad that Kinpa is reading a.r.e. still and maybe one day might explain how the placebo effect of fictional masters (fictional names credited to plagiarized text)equates with "Living Masters".

There is a detailed description of what constitutes a living master (Paul wrote about it; or plagiarized it from The Path Of The Masters, by Julian Johnson) and Eckankar literature has also echoed what constitutes a "Living Master" and how this is something rather unique about Eckankar; when compared to other religions.

So this Rebazar Tarzs name has taken legs and walked to inhabit other teachings similar, but also very unlike Eckankar.

http://online.fliphtml5.com/xtnm/pesy/

Is this Rebazar Tarzs real?

Maybe Kinpa has STILL failed to PROVE he is NOT real?

[Etznab]

Great stuff! Aye Kinpa?

http://online.fliphtml5.com/xtnm/pesy/#p=10

Did Paul Twitchell and Eckankar use copied materials that were credited to and claimed to have come from an unbroken lineage of living masters belonging to an ancient teaching? And did Paul Twitchell and Eckankar then promote, "sell" and reinforce these ideas as true? And for decades already knowingly do so in spite of evidence to the contrary amid the questions for clarification and steady resignation of certain former members?

This looks to me like a pretty big mess to clean up! For those who can admit and acknowledge the mess.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/eT-11v01heY/KvVuAV0XAwAJ

Kinpa: "its surprising how many people do not care in the least, at this point in time, about Paul Twitchell's plagiarisms, being that every spiritual path on the planet took from previous teachings and then propelled them into further development and evolution....great stuff!"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/_bDh_TRH94I/SPZ9SfIBZTwJ

[Etznab]

"... being that every spiritual path on the planet took from previous teachings and then propelled them into further development and evolution....great stuff!"

Yeah. But does that make the masters real?

Creating fictional masters on top of fictional masters is great stuff?

Great stuff???

http://online.fliphtml5.com/xtnm/pesy/#p=14

[wernertrp]

und Kelsey wird jetzt jeden Tag ein Tag jünger denn sie trinkt nur noch depleted water das ist das Wsser ohne das schwere Wasser, ob sie davon fliegen kann ?

[Etznab]

http://www.lulu.com/es/es/shop/paul-twitchell/paul-twitchell-the-rod-of-power/ebook/product-17407875.html