On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 18:57:36 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
> First off, let me admit that my knowledge of Urdu language and its literature is extremely ... miniscule. So, please keep this in mind while reading and responding to the rest of this post :)
>
> Growing up in (Indian) Hyderabad, I developed a love for Urdu (poetry), and whenever possible I have tried to read Urdu poetry online in roman script. It is one of my dream post-retirement projects to learn to read Urdu and then read the classics. kuchh aaTh-dus saal kii baat hai :)
Your love for Urdu poetry and your deep desire to learn the Urdu script is truly admirable. Would you believe that Kaifi Azami's daughter Shabana Azami can not read Urdu script at all!? My advice to you you is to invest in a children's Qaa3idah and before you know it, you will be reading "alif anaar" and "be-bakrii"!:-)
> Having said that, let me also admit that I have NOT read Iqbal's shikvah or javaab-e shikvah, just the occasional quotes from learned people like yourself. Now, coming to the sher that you have quoted, I can easily see how a novice like myself could mis-interpret the religion Vs the concept of Islam when Iqbal says "musalmaaN kar de". Although, I agree someone like Khushwant Singh should know better. I Googled to better understand the couplet, and found this below.
>
> Bring, O Lord, within our grasp that most rare love for which we pray;
> To India’s temple‐squatters teach the truth of the Islamic way.
I assure you, Dinesh SaaHib, I am in no way "learned" at all. What little I know is barely enough to get by. In this group, there indeed exist personalities who are well versed in Urdu literature, especially poetry but in the years gone by, there were a lot more such people. We are lucky to be in the company of such knowledgeable individuals and each day provides opportunities to learn from them. You may recall a well known song by Saigal, "ai kaatib-i-taqdiir mujhe itnaa bataa de...". The song has these two lines...
thaa jin ke dam-qadam se yih aabaad aashiyaaN
vuh chahchaatii bulbuleN, jaane ga'iiN kahaaN
Well, at least 3 of those "bulbuls" are still around and, unfortunately, the rest have flown away!
The translation you have found on the net is still inaccurate.
> In one of your earlier articles on ALUP, you educate us saying dair is used in a more generic way as "place of worship", not addressing "temples/hindus" but, in reality referring to Muslims in India. But ... isn't the word "dair" typically used for (hindu) temples. Ex : dair-O-haram to specifically differentiate a temple from a mosque, chiraag-e-dair, the (oil) lamp typically lit in (hindu) temples? While researching this issue, I ran into this sher (by none other than Miir) which further tells me dair is usually used to indicate a temple?
>
> miir ke diin-O-mazhab kO ab puuchhte kyaa ho un ne tO
> qashqa khIINchaa dair meiN baiThaa kab kaa tark islaam kiyaa
>
> Dinesh
My aim in quoting this shi3r with Khushwant Singh's translation was not in any way to test your knowledge and understanding of Urdu poetry but to make a point. I agree with you that one is free to make one's own interpretation of a shi3r but every interpratation is not always true or acceptable. On a number of occasions I have given my understanding of a Raj Kumar "Qais" shi3r and an Irfan Abid shi3r but the two gentlemen have provided me with a totally different explanation of what they had in mind. One can have a different interpreation of a shi3r from what the creator had in his mind (if we have access to that information) but it should not be a rediculous, unbelievable or inaccurate rendering. In the case of Khushwant Singh's translation, he has got it completely wrong. If you wish to read a bit more about this, please take a look at the thread below, in your own sweet time of course.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/DTfSI5p-4UQ/m/fAGP49PnBQAJ
In the case of Naseer Turabi's shi3r, even if he were to return from his grave and tell us that he wrote it with Pakistan and Bangladesh in mind, historical facts tell us that he was wrong. We know this *is* the case because the information has come "from the horse's mouth", who is one of the individuals charged with the conspiracy!
All you have said about the meaning and significance of the word "dair" is correct. But, a poet like Iqbal, would never have pleaded and never did plead to God about mass conversion of Hindus who go to and worship in their temples.
You may or may not know, Iqbal's Shikvah, is his complaint to God about the sorry state of affairs of the Muslim community in general but in India in particular. God then replies in "Javaab-i-Shikvah" and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Muslims themselves and no one else. Both the shikvah and the javaab are in the "musaddas" format (six liner) and this shi3r is in the 27th "band" of the poem. Out of the six lines of this "band", two are in Persian, so I will miss those out.
mushkileN ummat-i-marHuum kii aasaaN kar de
mor-i-be-maayah ko ham-dosh-i-SulaimaaN kar se
jins-i-naa-yaab-i-muHabbat ko phir arzaaN kar de
*Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de*
................................................................................
................................................................................
I initially thought of offering my own translation of the following line but I now feel I can not do better than quote the late renowned critic, janaab-i-Shamsur Rahman Faruqi, who has written a highly critical review of Khushwant Singh's translation of the Compaint and the Response to the Complaint. Here is a link to the full article.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/annualofurdustudies/pager.html?objectid=PK2151.A6152_2_117.gif
Faruqi writes....
"For example, in the shikwa itself, the fourth line of stanza twenty seven (p54) is "Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de ("These temple-dwellers of India, make them Muslim.") Now dair-nashiin literally means"those who sit in the temples," but here the phrase refers to the Muslims themselves, and not the Hindus. According to the protagonist, the Indian Muslims have lost the quality of Islam, and he prays that God change their hearts and make them true Muslims. Singhtranslates: "Convert to Islam India's millions who still in temples dwell." Thus the poem is made to appear not as a plaint of the Muslims who feel neglected and unloved by God, but as a prayer for conversion of the "infidels". Perhaps it is misinterpretations such as these
which have led Singh to conclude that these poems have the two nation theory in its embryonic stage. There is nothing in the poems which could support such a view. In fact, the poems could be seen as a warning to the Indian Muslims that they have forfeited, and will continue to forfeit, God's favours if they do not mend their ways. They are told that they can not pretend to be God's chosen people just because they claim to be the followers of the Prophet; God's bounty comes to those who deserve it; "Muslim" or "Infidel" in the traditional sense has no meaning for God. What has meaning is true submission, and the qualities of truth, justice, modesty, fortitude, ceaseless strife and action, fear of God rather than the fear of death, in fact all that distinguishes the perfect man............"
I hope this clarifies the issue.
Naseer