info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
aaj kaa she'r (#3)
2,393 views
Skip to first unread message
Zoya
Mar 20, 2021, 8:38:04 PM3/20/21
to
Friends,
When I first started the "aaj kaa she'r" thread, I had no idea it was going to be so popular. Over time, it has evolved into more than just a collection of ashaa'r. It has become a free flowing thread, chartering its own path, and now serves as an informal gathering place for all Alupers. We have seen group members, new and old, comfortably join in this thread at any given time, on regular basis or just occasionally.
This thread has now taken the form of a series. We have already run through Chapters #1 and #2, with over 1300 combined posts! Besides posting asha'ar, we have discussed things related (and sometimes not so related) to Urdu poetry. We have talked about diverse topics here, ranging from the weather to the political/socio-economic and numerous other current events touching our lives. I truly feel that there has never been a dull moment in this thread.
Usually the discussions have been academic in nature providing valuable learning opportunities for perpetual students like me. But occasionally we have also indulged in some light-hearted, fun bantering. I myself have been guilty of many such digressions, and I will be lying if I say I haven't enjoyed those too! :)
However, along the way we have not really strayed away from the main theme of this thread, it is a valuable collection of many amazing asha'ar.
I will now start Chapter #3 by quoting a classic she'r suggested by our very own Irfan Abid sahib:
sarsarii tum jahaan se guzre
varna har jaa jahaan-e-diigar thaa (Meer)
My sincere thanks to Irfan sahib for reminding us of this gem.
In case you want to refer back to them, I am posting links to the two previous chapters in this story.
aaj kaa she'r (#1):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/E_tQANEKy1I
aaj kaa she'r (#2):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/spM5_W6p8sU
This thread seems to have become an integral part of Alup. Let us keep the ball rolling and start another fun filled creative chapter .
_______Zoya
When I first started the "aaj kaa she'r" thread, I had no idea it was going to be so popular. Over time, it has evolved into more than just a collection of ashaa'r. It has become a free flowing thread, chartering its own path, and now serves as an informal gathering place for all Alupers. We have seen group members, new and old, comfortably join in this thread at any given time, on regular basis or just occasionally.
This thread has now taken the form of a series. We have already run through Chapters #1 and #2, with over 1300 combined posts! Besides posting asha'ar, we have discussed things related (and sometimes not so related) to Urdu poetry. We have talked about diverse topics here, ranging from the weather to the political/socio-economic and numerous other current events touching our lives. I truly feel that there has never been a dull moment in this thread.
Usually the discussions have been academic in nature providing valuable learning opportunities for perpetual students like me. But occasionally we have also indulged in some light-hearted, fun bantering. I myself have been guilty of many such digressions, and I will be lying if I say I haven't enjoyed those too! :)
However, along the way we have not really strayed away from the main theme of this thread, it is a valuable collection of many amazing asha'ar.
I will now start Chapter #3 by quoting a classic she'r suggested by our very own Irfan Abid sahib:
sarsarii tum jahaan se guzre
varna har jaa jahaan-e-diigar thaa (Meer)
My sincere thanks to Irfan sahib for reminding us of this gem.
In case you want to refer back to them, I am posting links to the two previous chapters in this story.
aaj kaa she'r (#1):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/E_tQANEKy1I
aaj kaa she'r (#2):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/spM5_W6p8sU
This thread seems to have become an integral part of Alup. Let us keep the ball rolling and start another fun filled creative chapter .
_______Zoya
Raj Kumar
Mar 20, 2021, 11:18:25 PM3/20/21
to
***yihii jo taNg-naa-e-zeest meN kuchh vus'ateN sii haiN
inheeN ko istilaaH-e-shauq meN saHraa samajhte haiN
[Firaaq G.]***
Zoya
Mar 22, 2021, 2:14:54 PM3/22/21
to
Exporting Dinesh sahib's last post from the thread aaj kaa sh'er (#2):
> Not sure if this is worthy of AKS3, but has been one of those that has always inspired me > to volunteer ...
> sharm aatii hai k us shahr meiN hum haiN ke jahaaN
> na mile bhiik tO laakhoN ka guzaaraa hii na hO
> jaaN nisaar akhtar
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dinesh sahib,
Of course this she'r is worthy of any Alup thread, old or new. You amaze me, finding such inspirational asha'ar and then actually doing something to help fix the issues through volunteer work. Thank you.
Since we are talking about JaaN Nisaar Akhtar, here is my single most favorite she'r written by him:
yeh i'lm kaa saudaa, yeh risaale, yeh kitaabeN
ik shaKhs kii yaadoN ko bhulaane ke liye haiN
Disclaimer: None of this actually works!
______Zoya
> Not sure if this is worthy of AKS3, but has been one of those that has always inspired me > to volunteer ...
> sharm aatii hai k us shahr meiN hum haiN ke jahaaN
> na mile bhiik tO laakhoN ka guzaaraa hii na hO
> jaaN nisaar akhtar
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dinesh sahib,
Of course this she'r is worthy of any Alup thread, old or new. You amaze me, finding such inspirational asha'ar and then actually doing something to help fix the issues through volunteer work. Thank you.
Since we are talking about JaaN Nisaar Akhtar, here is my single most favorite she'r written by him:
yeh i'lm kaa saudaa, yeh risaale, yeh kitaabeN
ik shaKhs kii yaadoN ko bhulaane ke liye haiN
Disclaimer: None of this actually works!
______Zoya
Dinesh Shenoy
Mar 23, 2021, 12:22:49 AM3/23/21
to
Loved the "Disclaimer" :) (Had to lookup what risaala meant)
Ali Minai sahib (whom I miss dearly) had posted this sher many aeons ago ...
dil ke andar dard, aaNkhON meiN namii ban jaaiye;
is tarah miliye k juzv-E zindigii ban jaaiye
- Salim Ahmad
Ali Minai sahib (whom I miss dearly) had posted this sher many aeons ago ...
dil ke andar dard, aaNkhON meiN namii ban jaaiye;
is tarah miliye k juzv-E zindigii ban jaaiye
- Salim Ahmad
Zoya
Mar 23, 2021, 5:30:02 PM3/23/21
to
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:22:49 PM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Ali Minai sahib (whom I miss dearly) had posted this sher many aeons ago ...
Yes, it is indeed a blessing that we had members like Ali Minai sahib in the early days of Alup and they left a goldmine of information for us.
> Ali Minai sahib (whom I miss dearly) had posted this sher many aeons ago ...
> dil ke andar dard, aaNkhON meiN namii ban jaaiye;
> is tarah miliye k juzv-E zindigii ban jaaiye
maiN us ko dekhta rehtaa thaa HairatoN se 'Faraz'
voh zindagii se ta'aruf kii ibtida thi mirii!
Message has been deleted
Zoya
Mar 24, 2021, 11:39:39 AM3/24/21
to
An occasional thought:
mere milne vaaloN meN se kaun miltaa hai tujhe?
tuu kahaaN hai aur kaisaa hai kise puuChha karuuN??
mere milne vaaloN meN se kaun miltaa hai tujhe?
tuu kahaaN hai aur kaisaa hai kise puuChha karuuN??
Dinesh Shenoy
Mar 24, 2021, 11:14:54 PM3/24/21
to
kuchh tuu hii mere karb kaa mafhuum samajh le
haNsataa huaa ye cheharaa zamaane ke liye hai
[Muzaffar Warsi]
mafhuum = meaning; karb = anguish
Irfan Abid
Mar 24, 2021, 11:15:28 PM3/24/21
to
mulahiza farmaaiye:
masal sunii hai ki milne se koi miltaa hai
milo to aaNkh mile, dil mile, nigaah mile (Dagh)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Raj Kumar
Mar 25, 2021, 1:49:38 AM3/25/21
to
On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 8:15:28 PM UTC-7, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
>
> masal sunii hai ki milne se koi miltaa hai
> milo to aaNkh mile, dil mile, nigaah mile (Dagh)
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
***kahaaN the raat ko? ham se zaraa nigaah mile
>
>
> masal sunii hai ki milne se koi miltaa hai
> milo to aaNkh mile, dil mile, nigaah mile (Dagh)
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
talaash meN ho k jhuuTaa ko'ii gavaah mile? (DaaGh)
R.K.***
Zoya
Mar 25, 2021, 10:44:10 AM3/25/21
to
On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:14:54 PM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> kuchh tuu hii mere karb kaa mafhuum samajh le
> haNsataa huaa ye cheharaa zamaane ke liye hai
> [Muzaffar Warsi]
Sure.
> kuchh tuu hii mere karb kaa mafhuum samajh le
> haNsataa huaa ye cheharaa zamaane ke liye hai
> [Muzaffar Warsi]
lazzat-e-gham baRhaa diijiye
aap phir muskuraa diijiye :)
Zoya
Mar 25, 2021, 10:51:31 AM3/25/21
to
On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:15:28 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> mulahiza farmaaiye:
>
> masal sunii hai ki milne se koi miltaa hai
> milo to aaNkh mile, dil mile, nigaah mile (Dagh)
jii Irfan sahib:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> mulahiza farmaaiye:
>
> masal sunii hai ki milne se koi miltaa hai
> milo to aaNkh mile, dil mile, nigaah mile (Dagh)
ik baar milo ham se to sau baar mileN ge
ham jaise kahaaN tum ko talab_gaar mileN ge? :)
Zoya
Mar 25, 2021, 10:54:32 AM3/25/21
to
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 12:49:38 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***kahaaN the raat ko? ham se zaraa nigaah mile
> talaash meN ho k jhuuTaa ko'ii gavaah mile? (DaaGh)
>
> R.K.***
kisii gavaah kii kyaa zaruurat hai RK sahib:
> ***kahaaN the raat ko? ham se zaraa nigaah mile
> talaash meN ho k jhuuTaa ko'ii gavaah mile? (DaaGh)
>
> R.K.***
yeh uRii uRii se rangat, yeh khule khule se gesuu
tirii subH keh rahii hai tirii raat kaa fasaanaa!
Raj Kumar
Mar 25, 2021, 6:25:24 PM3/25/21
to
I point this out simply because you are now approaching a zone of perfection as far as matters regarding vazn/bahr are concerned. In view of this, I get somewhat like a jolt of despair when I see even the slightest imperfection in your writing.
du'aa-go, Raj Kumar***
Zoya
Mar 25, 2021, 7:56:53 PM3/25/21
to
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 5:25:24 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***To be strictly strict, ZS, the word 'tirii' appearing twice in the second misr'a should be 'tiri'.
>
> I point this out simply because you are now approaching a zone of perfection as far as matters regarding vazn/bahr are concerned. In view of this, I get somewhat like a jolt of despair when I see even the slightest imperfection in your writing.
>
> du'aa-go, Raj Kumar***
Thank you so much RK sahib, I really appreciate your feedback and encouragement. I am truly fortunate that you always take the time to guide me.
> ***To be strictly strict, ZS, the word 'tirii' appearing twice in the second misr'a should be 'tiri'.
>
> I point this out simply because you are now approaching a zone of perfection as far as matters regarding vazn/bahr are concerned. In view of this, I get somewhat like a jolt of despair when I see even the slightest imperfection in your writing.
>
> du'aa-go, Raj Kumar***
To be perfectly honest, I still occasionally stumble on words ending in aa/a, ii/i and have to pause and think. I am trying to be more careful, earlier I never really paid much attention to how I wrote such words in Roman. Now when in doubt, I sometimes actually take the time to match a syllable with the corresponding word in the preceding or following misraa, but usually don't.
I think what I need to start doing is, if unsure about ii/i, aa/a, say the misraa out loud and then go with my intuition. One thing I can say with confidence is that it is never an issue for me with the last word in a misraa, since the last syllable is long in all baHrs. (The exception being the legit short cheat syllable at the end, which is generally not the case with the words we are discussing here.)
Thanks for your confidence in my ability to do better, I promise to be even more diligent from hereon. . :)
Your slightly imperfect pupil,
_______Zoya
Zoya
Mar 26, 2021, 12:18:56 PM3/26/21
to
A she'r and a question:
I had recently posted this she'r in another thread:
huN is kuuche ke har zarre se aagah
idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN
taqtiia':
1 2 2 2 / 1 2 2 2 / 1 2 2
huN is kuu che / ke har zar re / se aa gah
i dhar se mud/ da toN aa yaa/ ga yaa huuN
Premise:
I had a typo in my original post that I tried to fix, I really meant the last word in the first misraa to be pronounced and written as 'aagah'.
Talking about the typo, Prof RK had written it as 'aagaah', which also fits perfectly in the above written taqtiia' using a short cheat syllable allowance at the end. No issues.
Question:
Can this word go either way? Was I ok in pronouncing it as 'aagah' or is it always 'aagaah'?
Is it negotiable in 'vazn' depending on its position, which by the way is irrelevant in this case.
Follow up thought: Are 'aagahi' and 'aagaahi' both legit? I tend to favor the first one.
Waiting for an expert answer. Thanks in advance,
________Zoya
I had recently posted this she'r in another thread:
huN is kuuche ke har zarre se aagah
idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN
taqtiia':
1 2 2 2 / 1 2 2 2 / 1 2 2
huN is kuu che / ke har zar re / se aa gah
i dhar se mud/ da toN aa yaa/ ga yaa huuN
Premise:
I had a typo in my original post that I tried to fix, I really meant the last word in the first misraa to be pronounced and written as 'aagah'.
Talking about the typo, Prof RK had written it as 'aagaah', which also fits perfectly in the above written taqtiia' using a short cheat syllable allowance at the end. No issues.
Question:
Can this word go either way? Was I ok in pronouncing it as 'aagah' or is it always 'aagaah'?
Is it negotiable in 'vazn' depending on its position, which by the way is irrelevant in this case.
Follow up thought: Are 'aagahi' and 'aagaahi' both legit? I tend to favor the first one.
Waiting for an expert answer. Thanks in advance,
________Zoya
Irfan Abid
Mar 26, 2021, 2:43:17 PM3/26/21
to
The last rukn of this bahr is flexible and therefore, one has the option to use or ignore the "cheat" syllable you have mentioned. The arkaan can be ma-faa-ii-lun ma-faa-ii-lun fa-uu-lun/ma-faa-iil.
'aagah' and 'aagaah' are both legitimate. It doesn't matter which one version you use in this she'r, but yes, one should use the appropriate version depending on the place of this word in the bahr. Also, both 'aagahii' and 'aagaahii' are legitimate.
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Raj Kumar
Mar 26, 2021, 3:04:48 PM3/26/21
to
In contrast, words like rah, mah, shah, ---- are almost as frequently used as raah, maah, shaah, ---- but not aagah!
R.K.***
Zoya
Mar 26, 2021, 8:24:59 PM3/26/21
to
RK sahib/Irfan sahib,
Thank you so much for your very prompt and crystal clear responses to my query. Both of you are awesome, and I feel blessed. My life is so much richer because of you.
You probably have no idea how much your patience and guidance means to me. I rave about you two all the time, and most of my family members and close friends know you. :)
Now another one of my favorite asha'ar containing this word. Here also it can go either way because of the position. However, this time around I am writing it as Prof RK would:
hazaar husn ki fitrat se ho koii aagaah
nigaah-e-lutf ke sab hii fareb khaate haiN ! :-)
Your perpetually curious pupil,
______Zoya
Thank you so much for your very prompt and crystal clear responses to my query. Both of you are awesome, and I feel blessed. My life is so much richer because of you.
You probably have no idea how much your patience and guidance means to me. I rave about you two all the time, and most of my family members and close friends know you. :)
Now another one of my favorite asha'ar containing this word. Here also it can go either way because of the position. However, this time around I am writing it as Prof RK would:
hazaar husn ki fitrat se ho koii aagaah
nigaah-e-lutf ke sab hii fareb khaate haiN ! :-)
Your perpetually curious pupil,
______Zoya
Naseer
Mar 27, 2021, 3:12:55 AM3/27/21
to
On Friday, 26 March 2021 at 19:04:48 UTC, Raj Kumar wrote:
َ> I have never come across this word in its former form. Now I realize that the word in question is quite legit, though rarel
kiyaa hai diidah-i-anjaam maiN ne aagah-i-raaz
bisaat-i-dahr Munawwar hai farsh-i-xvaab mujhe
Munawwar Lakhnavi
apnii hastii hii se ho jo kuchh ho
aagahii gar nahiiN Ghaflat hii sahii
Ghalib
aagahii daam-i-shiniidan jis qadar chaahe bichhaa'e
mudda3aa 3anqaa hai apne 3aalam-i-taqriir kaa
Ghalib
Naseer
َ> I have never come across this word in its former form. Now I realize that the word in question is quite legit, though rarel
> used as such.
> In contrast, words like rah, mah, shah, ---- are almost as frequently used as raah, maah, shaah, ---- but not aagah!
>
> R.K.***
Raj Kumar SaaHib, I have found this shi3r with "aagah".
> In contrast, words like rah, mah, shah, ---- are almost as frequently used as raah, maah, shaah, ---- but not aagah!
>
> R.K.***
kiyaa hai diidah-i-anjaam maiN ne aagah-i-raaz
bisaat-i-dahr Munawwar hai farsh-i-xvaab mujhe
Munawwar Lakhnavi
apnii hastii hii se ho jo kuchh ho
aagahii gar nahiiN Ghaflat hii sahii
Ghalib
aagahii daam-i-shiniidan jis qadar chaahe bichhaa'e
mudda3aa 3anqaa hai apne 3aalam-i-taqriir kaa
Ghalib
Naseer
Zoya
Mar 27, 2021, 12:34:53 PM3/27/21
to
aagaah kiyaa hai to hue aur bhi ghaafil
vaaqif jo nahiiN the mire haalaat se aage
vaaqif jo nahiiN the mire haalaat se aage
Irfan Abid
Mar 27, 2021, 12:45:50 PM3/27/21
to
Here is a gem on "fareb."
bahut fareb se ham vahshiyoN ko vahshat hai
hamaare dasht meN 'naasiKh' kahiiN saraab nahiiN (Imam Baksh NasiKh)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Raj Kumar
Mar 27, 2021, 6:09:49 PM3/27/21
to
maiN Khaak ka putlaa huuN, tu marmar ka sanam hai
maiN tujh se shanaasaa huuN na tuu mujh se hai aagaah! :-(
[RKQais]
R.K.***
Raj Kumar
Mar 27, 2021, 6:14:50 PM3/27/21
to
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 9:34:53 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> aagaah kiyaa hai to hue aur bhi ghaafil
> vaaqif jo nahiiN the mire haalaat se aage
***aur lafz 'fareb' par yeh she'r dekhiye:
> aagaah kiyaa hai to hue aur bhi ghaafil
> vaaqif jo nahiiN the mire haalaat se aage
adaa-e-naaz ko aNdaaz-e-dilbarii samjhe
fareb aihl-e-moHabbat ne khaaye haiN kyaa kyaa!
[RKQais]
R.K.***
Message has been deleted
Raj Kumar
Mar 27, 2021, 6:39:36 PM3/27/21
to
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 12:12:55 AM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 26 March 2021 at 19:04:48 UTC, Raj Kumar wrote:
> َ> I have never come across this word in its former form. Now I realize that the word in question is quite legit, though rarel
> > used as such.
> > In contrast, words like rah, mah, shah, ---- are almost as frequently used as raah, maah, shaah, ---- but not aagah!
> >
> > R.K.***
> Raj Kumar SaaHib, I have found this shi3r with "aagah".
>
> kiyaa hai diidah-i-anjaam maiN ne aagah-i-raaz
> bisaat-i-dahr Munawwar hai farsh-i-xvaab mujhe
>
> Munawwar Lakhnavi
***maan gaye, sahib, maan gaye; aap ki taHqeeq-o-tajassus ki ko'ii Hadd nahiiN!
> On Friday, 26 March 2021 at 19:04:48 UTC, Raj Kumar wrote:
> َ> I have never come across this word in its former form. Now I realize that the word in question is quite legit, though rarel
> > used as such.
> > In contrast, words like rah, mah, shah, ---- are almost as frequently used as raah, maah, shaah, ---- but not aagah!
> >
> > R.K.***
> Raj Kumar SaaHib, I have found this shi3r with "aagah".
>
> kiyaa hai diidah-i-anjaam maiN ne aagah-i-raaz
> bisaat-i-dahr Munawwar hai farsh-i-xvaab mujhe
>
> Munawwar Lakhnavi
ham ne lafz "aagah", with only one alif, ka ist'emaal aaj pahli baar dekhaa hai --- aur voh bhi Munshi Basheshwar Prasad ji ke she'r meN. agar aap meHnat n karte to ham is nagiine se be-Khabar rahte.***
>
>
> apnii hastii hii se ho jo kuchh ho
> aagahii gar nahiiN Ghaflat hii sahii
>
> Ghalib
>
> aagahii daam-i-shiniidan jis qadar chaahe bichhaa'e
> mudda3aa 3anqaa hai apne 3aalam-i-taqriir kaa
>
> Ghalib
***shukriya, Naseer sahib, lafz 'aagahii' par yeh ash'aar sunaane ke liye --- go k yeh ash'aar hamaare jaane-pahchaane haiN. yahaaN tak k Khud Khaaksaar ne bhi is lafz ka (Khaatir-Khwaah) ist'emaal kiyaa hai. mulaaHiza ho
>
> apnii hastii hii se ho jo kuchh ho
> aagahii gar nahiiN Ghaflat hii sahii
>
> Ghalib
>
> aagahii daam-i-shiniidan jis qadar chaahe bichhaa'e
> mudda3aa 3anqaa hai apne 3aalam-i-taqriir kaa
>
> Ghalib
ilm-o-fan, mashq-e-suKhan aur aagahii kaafii nahiiN
she'r kahne ke liye kuchh aur bhii darkaar hai!
mazaa to tab ho jab aap ko'ii aisa she'r sunaa'eN jis meN lafz "aagaahii" ka ist'emaal ho! :-)
R.K.***
Zoya
Mar 27, 2021, 6:40:24 PM3/27/21
to
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 5:09:49 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***ZS, lafz 'aagaah' par aek she'r aap ki nazr hai:
>
> maiN Khaak ka putlaa huuN, tu marmar ka sanam hai
> maiN tujh se shanaasaa huuN na tuu mujh se hai aagaah! :-(
> [RKQais]
>
> R.K.***
RK sahib, is baat par to aap yeh suniye:
> ***ZS, lafz 'aagaah' par aek she'r aap ki nazr hai:
>
> maiN Khaak ka putlaa huuN, tu marmar ka sanam hai
> maiN tujh se shanaasaa huuN na tuu mujh se hai aagaah! :-(
> [RKQais]
>
> R.K.***
ham tere shanaasaa haiN hameN ghair se kyaa kaam
aagaah kisii se bhi nahiiiN tere sivaa ham! :-)
Zoya
Mar 27, 2021, 6:44:48 PM3/27/21
to
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 11:45:50 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Here is a gem on "fareb."
>
> bahut fareb se ham vahshiyoN ko vahshat hai
> hamaare dasht meN 'naasiKh' kahiiN saraab nahiiN (Imam Baksh NasiKh)
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
fareb par jo sh'er sab se pehle mere zehn meN aataa hai, voh yeh hai:
tum aur fareb khaayo bayaan-e-raqiib se?
tum se to kam gila hai, ziyaadaa nasiib se
Another one that I particularly like is:
haaye voh zindagii-fareb aaNkheN
tuu ne kyaa sochaa maiN ne kyaa samjhaa
I just love the idea of 'zindagii-fareb aaNkheN', kind of reminds me of the song "jiivan se bharii terii aaNkheN.....".
Oh and now I am wondering, have you too been thinking of this song lately? Link to the recording please. :)
Zoya
Mar 27, 2021, 7:03:33 PM3/27/21
to
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 5:14:50 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***aur lafz 'fareb' par yeh she'r dekhiye:
>
> adaa-e-naaz ko aNdaaz-e-dilbarii samjhe
> fareb aihl-e-moHabbat ne khaaye haiN kyaa kyaa!
> [RKQais]
>
> R.K.***
vaah vaah RK sahib, bahut Khuub.
> ***aur lafz 'fareb' par yeh she'r dekhiye:
>
> adaa-e-naaz ko aNdaaz-e-dilbarii samjhe
> fareb aihl-e-moHabbat ne khaaye haiN kyaa kyaa!
> [RKQais]
>
> R.K.***
This reminded me of a she'r that I absolutely love, I consider it to be one of the finest asha'ar of Jigar Moradabadi:
voh adaa-e-dilbarii ho k navaa-e-aashiqaanaa
jo diloN ko fatH kar le vohii faatH-e- zamaanaa!
Irfan Abid
Mar 29, 2021, 1:00:16 AM3/29/21
to
No, I wasn't thinking about this song - until you made me to! :) Enjoy: https://www.smule.com/recording/kishor-da-jeevan-se-bhari-teri-aankhe/1216696826_3970660090
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Zoya
Mar 29, 2021, 1:18:33 PM3/29/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 12:00:16 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> No, I wasn't thinking about this song - until you made me to! :) Enjoy: https://www.smule.com/recording/kishor-da-jeevan-se-bhari-teri-aankhe/1216696826_3970660090
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
aadaab Irfan sahib,
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> No, I wasn't thinking about this song - until you made me to! :) Enjoy: https://www.smule.com/recording/kishor-da-jeevan-se-bhari-teri-aankhe/1216696826_3970660090
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
Thanks for indulging me, this is just wonderful.
I have always been a fan of 'Indeevar', his lyrics usually stand apart in the crowded field of Bollywood songwriters. I mean, who else could have said this, such simple words but so magical:
"rangoN ChhandoN meN samaaye gii kis tarah se itnii sundartaa"
and one of the best compliments for any woman:
"aanchal kaa tire hai taar bahut ik chaak jigar siine ke liye"
I am sure you enjoyed singing this song as much as I enjoyed listening to it. Watch out though, more requests may be in store. :)
baat aaNkhoN kii ho rahii hai to mujhe ik aur she'r yaad aa gayaa jo ek baar Asad ne sunaayaa thaa. yeh she'r mujhe ik dua' kii tarah lagtaa hai:
tirii aaNkheN Khuda maHfuuz rakhkhe
tirii aaNkhoN meN hairaanii bahut hai
________Zoya
Dinesh Shenoy
Mar 29, 2021, 2:37:41 PM3/29/21
to
>
> "rangoN ChhandoN meN samaaye gii kis tarah se itnii sundartaa"
>
I too love this song for both - its lyrics and Kishore-da's soulful rendition. Now, this ... expression by itself is not entirely new to poetry, no?
> "rangoN ChhandoN meN samaaye gii kis tarah se itnii sundartaa"
>
So, I ran into this sher which I could relate to when I was a "travelling consultant" and out-of-town Mon-Thu, returning home on Fridays ...
betahaashaa maiN tere ghar ki taraf bhaagaa huuN
in mashiinoN ne zaraa der jo chhuTii de dii
[Zafar Gorakhpuri]
Zoya
Mar 29, 2021, 4:17:24 PM3/29/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 1:37:41 PM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> >
> > "rangoN ChhandoN meN samaaye gii kis tarah se itnii sundartaa"
> >
> I too love this song for both - its lyrics and Kishore-da's soulful rendition. Now, this ... expression by itself is not entirely new to poetry, no?
No, this idea is of course age old and oft repeated, but I find the simplicity of expression here touching. And you are right, the soulful singing makes it memorable.
> >
> > "rangoN ChhandoN meN samaaye gii kis tarah se itnii sundartaa"
> >
> I too love this song for both - its lyrics and Kishore-da's soulful rendition. Now, this ... expression by itself is not entirely new to poetry, no?
Talking about Indeevar, one of my absolute favorite songs written by him is in Mukesh's voice, from 'Purab aur Pachhim', "koii jab tumhaaraa hriday toR de". The younger-naive-me actually used to believe in stuff like that. Come to think of it, the older-not-completely-disillusioned-me still sort of does!
is baat par mujhe ik she'r yaad aa rahaa hai. The ultimate 'perfect' behavior:
kare kalaam voh mujh se, to mere lehje meN
maiN chup rahuuN, to mire tevaroN kaa saathii ho! :)
> So, I ran into this sher which I could relate to when I was a "travelling consultant" and out-of-town Mon-Thu, returning home on Fridays ...
>
> betahaashaa maiN tere ghar ki taraf bhaagaa huuN
> in mashiinoN ne zaraa der jo chhuTii de dii
> [Zafar Gorakhpuri]
chalo dil se kareN ge dil ki baateN
use daftar na jaane kii Khushii hai! :-)
______Zoya
PS: Irfan sahib, next song? Mukesh?? :)
Raj Kumar
Mar 29, 2021, 6:56:02 PM3/29/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 1:17:24 PM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
>
> is baat par mujhe ik she'r yaad aa rahaa hai.
>
***ZS, just a comment based, as usual, on mere observation:
>
> is baat par mujhe ik she'r yaad aa rahaa hai.
>
mundaraja-baalaa misr'e meN aap ne lafz 'aek' ki bajaaye 'ik' likkhaa hai. aap ki pichhli post meN bhi aisa hu'aa hai:
"baat aaNkhoN kii ho rahii hai to mujhe 'ik' aur she'r yaad aa gayaa jo ek baar Asad ne sunaayaa thaa. yeh she'r mujhe 'ik' dua' kii tarah lagtaa hai":
R.K.***
Irfan Abid
Mar 29, 2021, 9:11:38 PM3/29/21
to
agar ham ne ALUP ko Bollywood songs kii mehfil banaane kii koshish kii to ahbaab aap ko to shaayad muravvat meN baKhsh deN, meraa huqqa paanii band ho jaayegaa! :)
leejiye, "daftar" par ek she'r mulahiza farmaaiye:
roz-e-hisaab jab miraa pesh ho daftar-e-amal
aap bhii sharmsaar ho mujh ko bhii sharmsaar kar (Iqbal)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Zoya
Mar 29, 2021, 11:47:53 PM3/29/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 5:56:02 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***ZS, just a comment based, as usual, on mere observation:
> mundaraja-baalaa misr'e meN aap ne lafz 'aek' ki bajaaye 'ik' likkhaa hai. aap ki pichhli post meN bhi aisa hu'aa hai:
> ***ZS, just a comment based, as usual, on mere observation:
> mundaraja-baalaa misr'e meN aap ne lafz 'aek' ki bajaaye 'ik' likkhaa hai. aap ki pichhli post meN bhi aisa hu'aa hai:
> is baat par mujhe yeh kahnaa hai k lafz 'ik' sirf Urdu shaa'iri meN ist'emaal hota hai, Urdu nasr meN nahiiN hota. agar hota ho to kam-az-kam maiN ne nahiiN dekha. aap meri maaneN to nasr meN hamesha 'aek' likkhaa kareN.
OMG! RK sahib, you are really not going to believe this, but I actually paused while typing 'ik' in my post today, first time ever I actually wondered if it should be 'ek', but then moved on anyway. What is happening to me? Am I preemptively starting to feel what you might object to?? Is that good or bad???
You can guess why I use 'ik' interchangeably with 'ek' if vazn is not a constraint, it is the Punjabi in me! To be perfectly honest, I almost never write Urdu in nasr, and don't even read it much. I really thought 'ik' was probably ok, but will be extra careful in future. Thanks for pointing it out.
I have a follow up question now: Is 'ik' acceptable in Hindi prose? Could that be the reason why I am using it in Urdu? I know compound words like iktaaraa, iktiis, iktarfaa etc with 'ik' as a prefix are commonly used in Hindi prose, but 'ik' by itself?? Not sure anymore.
Prof RK, thanks for being extra strictly strict with me. Makes me feel privileged, after all I am your all time favorite pupil and perfection is your ultimate goal. :-)
________Zoya
Zoya
Mar 30, 2021, 12:15:43 AM3/30/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> > PS: Irfan sahib, next song? Mukesh?? :)
> >
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> agar ham ne ALUP ko Bollywood songs kii mehfil banaane kii koshish kii to ahbaab aap ko to shaayad muravvat meN baKhsh deN, meraa huqqa paanii band ho jaayegaa! :)
aadaab Irfan sahib,
> > PS: Irfan sahib, next song? Mukesh?? :)
> >
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> agar ham ne ALUP ko Bollywood songs kii mehfil banaane kii koshish kii to ahbaab aap ko to shaayad muravvat meN baKhsh deN, meraa huqqa paanii band ho jaayegaa! :)
Trust me, aap kaa huqqaa paani bilkul band nahiiN ho gaa. voh kyaa hai na, maiN har filmi naghme ke saath "ek" (yaa phir aap do chaar) she'r likh diyaa karuuN gii, so we'll be able to justify the 'digressions' easily. :)
Seriously now, I am waiting for the Mukesh song, I can feel you humming it already. Yes? :-)
> leejiye, "daftar" par ek she'r mulahiza farmaaiye:
>
> roz-e-hisaab jab miraa pesh ho daftar-e-amal
> aap bhii sharmsaar ho mujh ko bhii sharmsaar kar (Iqbal)
So here it is:
daavar-e-Hashr, miraa naama-e-a'amaal na dekh
is meN kuChh pardah-nashiinoN ke bhi naam aate haiN :)
Amit Malhotra
Mar 30, 2021, 1:20:28 AM3/30/21
to
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:47:53 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> You can guess why I use 'ik' interchangeably with 'ek' if vazn is not a constraint, it is the Punjabi in me! To be perfectly honest, I almost never write Urdu in nasr, and don't even read it much. I really thought 'ik' was probably ok, but will be extra careful in future. Thanks for pointing it out.
>
> I have a follow up question now: Is 'ik' acceptable in Hindi prose? Could that be the reason why I am using it in Urdu? I know compound words like iktaaraa, iktiis, iktarfaa etc with 'ik' as a prefix are commonly used in Hindi prose, but 'ik' by itself?? Not sure anymore.
>
> Prof RK, thanks for being extra strictly strict with me. Makes me feel privileged, after all I am your all time favorite pupil and perfection is your ultimate goal. :-)
>
> ________Zoya
While I understand the objection, the dictionary states 'ik' as a word, granted it also says "used in compn", but I'm still curious as to why the objection is using the word in prose? (https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/platts_query.py?page=64) .
> You can guess why I use 'ik' interchangeably with 'ek' if vazn is not a constraint, it is the Punjabi in me! To be perfectly honest, I almost never write Urdu in nasr, and don't even read it much. I really thought 'ik' was probably ok, but will be extra careful in future. Thanks for pointing it out.
>
> I have a follow up question now: Is 'ik' acceptable in Hindi prose? Could that be the reason why I am using it in Urdu? I know compound words like iktaaraa, iktiis, iktarfaa etc with 'ik' as a prefix are commonly used in Hindi prose, but 'ik' by itself?? Not sure anymore.
>
> Prof RK, thanks for being extra strictly strict with me. Makes me feel privileged, after all I am your all time favorite pupil and perfection is your ultimate goal. :-)
>
> ________Zoya
kuchh der pahle "aankhoN" ka thread chala tha, us par socha maiN vi "aithe aa ke ik sh'er suna davaaN"
bhool sakta hai bhala kaun ye pyaari aaNkheiN
rang meiN Duubi huii, neend se bhaari aaNkheiN
oh and of course, one from my other favourite ghazal on the topic:
kabhii nazar meiN balaa ki shoKhii
kabhii sar-aa-paa hijaab aaNkheN!
ye hui na baat, punjabi, ik, bollywood, aankheiN, Sahir, sab kuchh is chhoTi si post meiN aa gaya. :-)
Amit
Zoya
Mar 30, 2021, 12:33:42 PM3/30/21
to
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 12:20:28 AM UTC-5, ami...@gmail.com wrote:
> While I understand the objection, the dictionary states 'ik' as a word, granted it also says "used in compn", but I'm still curious as to why the objection is using the word in prose? (https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/platts_query.py?page=64).
Hi Amit, thanks for the link. I too am still curious about this, the use of 'ik' not just in Urdu prose, but Hindi as well. Waiting for more input from our resident experts.
> While I understand the objection, the dictionary states 'ik' as a word, granted it also says "used in compn", but I'm still curious as to why the objection is using the word in prose? (https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/platts_query.py?page=64).
> kuchh der pahle "aankhoN" ka thread chala tha, us par socha maiN vi "aithe aa ke ik sh'er suna davaaN"
> bhool sakta hai bhala kaun ye pyaari aaNkheiN
> rang meiN Duubi huii, neend se bhaari aaNkheiN
> oh and of course, one from my other favourite ghazal on the topic:
>
> kabhii nazar meiN balaa ki shoKhii
> kabhii sar-aa-paa hijaab aaNkheN!
>
> ye hui na baat, punjabi, ik, bollywood, aankheiN, Sahir, sab kuchh is chhoTi si post meiN aa gaya. :-)
> Amit
Raj Kumar
Mar 30, 2021, 2:08:04 PM3/30/21
to
***agar Amit sahib ne apne aaKhiri she'r ke Khaaliq ka naam bataa diyaa hotaa to "Six birds with one stone" ho jaate! :-)
R.K.***
Zoya
Mar 30, 2021, 3:52:08 PM3/30/21
to
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 1:08:04 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > Wow! Five birds with one stone, aren't we efficient, way to go my friend!! :-)
> > Zoya
>
> ***agar Amit sahib ne apne aaKhiri she'r ke Khaaliq ka naam bataa diyaa hotaa to "Six birds with one stone" ho jaate! :-)
>
> R.K.**
RK sahib, jaane mujhe kyuN aisaa lag rahaa hai k ho na ho yeh she'r bhii 'charaaghoN meN raushnii na rahii" vaale Qais sahib kaa hii hai! :)
> > Wow! Five birds with one stone, aren't we efficient, way to go my friend!! :-)
> > Zoya
>
> ***agar Amit sahib ne apne aaKhiri she'r ke Khaaliq ka naam bataa diyaa hotaa to "Six birds with one stone" ho jaate! :-)
>
> R.K.**
Amit Malhotra
Mar 31, 2021, 1:04:40 AM3/31/21
to
Chaliye, usi ghazal se ek aur sh'er sunte jaayein aap dono, agarche RK sahib ke liye ye kuchh naya nahin hoga:
inheeN meiN ulfat, inheeN meiN nafrat
savaab aaNkheN, azaab aaNkheN!
unforgettable Ghazal Qais sahib. Is sixth bird ke liye special post (aka stone) zaroori thi ;-)
Amit
Irfan Abid
Apr 2, 2021, 1:20:11 AM4/2/21
to
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 12:15:43 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> > > PS: Irfan sahib, next song? Mukesh?? :)
> > >
> > Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> >
> > agar ham ne ALUP ko Bollywood songs kii mehfil banaane kii koshish kii to ahbaab aap ko to shaayad muravvat meN baKhsh deN, meraa huqqa paanii band ho jaayegaa! :)
> aadaab Irfan sahib,
>
> Trust me, aap kaa huqqaa paani bilkul band nahiiN ho gaa. voh kyaa hai na, maiN har filmi naghme ke saath "ek" (yaa phir aap do chaar) she'r likh diyaa karuuN gii, so we'll be able to justify the 'digressions' easily. :)
>
> Seriously now, I am waiting for the Mukesh song, I can feel you humming it already. Yes? :-)
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> > > PS: Irfan sahib, next song? Mukesh?? :)
> > >
> > Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> >
> > agar ham ne ALUP ko Bollywood songs kii mehfil banaane kii koshish kii to ahbaab aap ko to shaayad muravvat meN baKhsh deN, meraa huqqa paanii band ho jaayegaa! :)
> aadaab Irfan sahib,
>
> Trust me, aap kaa huqqaa paani bilkul band nahiiN ho gaa. voh kyaa hai na, maiN har filmi naghme ke saath "ek" (yaa phir aap do chaar) she'r likh diyaa karuuN gii, so we'll be able to justify the 'digressions' easily. :)
>
> Seriously now, I am waiting for the Mukesh song, I can feel you humming it already. Yes? :-)
I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
> > leejiye, "daftar" par ek she'r mulahiza farmaaiye:
> >
> > roz-e-hisaab jab miraa pesh ho daftar-e-amal
> > aap bhii sharmsaar ho mujh ko bhii sharmsaar kar (Iqbal)
> bahut Khuub. And of course, "maiN jaantaa huuN jo voh likheN ge javaab meN"
> So here it is:
>
> daavar-e-Hashr, miraa naama-e-a'amaal na dekh
> is meN kuChh pardah-nashiinoN ke bhi naam aate haiN :)
suKhan raaz-e-nashaat-o-Gham kaa pardaa ho hii jaataa hai
Ghazal kah leN to jii kaa bojh halkaa ho hii jaataa hai (Shaz Tamkanat)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Zoya
Apr 2, 2021, 9:10:27 AM4/2/21
to
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:20:11 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
Thank you so much Irfan sahib. This is so nice. :)
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
> aur ab "pardaa" par ye she'r dekhiye:
>
> suKhan raaz-e-nashaat-o-Gham kaa pardaa ho hii jaataa hai
> Ghazal kah leN to jii kaa bojh halkaa ho hii jaataa hai (Shaz Tamkanat)
yeh ham ghazal meN jo harf-o-bayaaN banaate haiN
hava-e-gham ke liye khiRkiyaaN banaate haiN
Message has been deleted
Zoya
Apr 2, 2021, 12:11:15 PM4/2/21
to
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:20:11 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
Irfan sahib, Having listened to the recording, I want to thank you again. Soulful singing. Of course the lyrics, but ahhh the tune. Low key, and with a haunting quality.
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
I just got an idea, maybe we should start a new thread on Alup. I even have a name in mind, "tamiil-e- irshaad", ek aisaa thread jis meN ham farmaaish kareN aur aap naghme sunaayeN. Game? Of course, we will also post asha'ar to go with the songs, "ek she'r ek naghmaa" types. :-))
You know what though, while listening to the song, a nazm by 'Majaz' came to my mind, sort of the flip side:
"ab mire paas tum aayii ho to kyaa aayii ho"
and a JE she'r:
ab mujhe ḳhud apnii baahoN par nahiiN hai iKhtiyaar
haath phailaaye koii be_iKhtiyaar aayaa to kyaa
______Zoya
Zoya
Apr 3, 2021, 4:45:41 PM4/3/21
to
pichhle kuChh roz se mujhe Sarwar sahib kaa bahut Khayaal aa rahaa thaa, so aaj merii phone par un se baat huii. voh itnii muravvat se pesh aate haiN k maiN un se baat kartne hue rone lagii. maiN ne un se Alup kaa zikr kiyaa, dekhiye shaayad voh Khud bhii phir kabhii yahaaN aayeN, keh rahe the mujhe Alup kaa link bhej denaa.
is vaqt mere zehn meN yeh she'r aa rahaa hai:
raasto, kyaa hue voh log jo aate jaate
mere aadaab pe kehte the k jiite rahiye
is vaqt mere zehn meN yeh she'r aa rahaa hai:
raasto, kyaa hue voh log jo aate jaate
mere aadaab pe kehte the k jiite rahiye
Zoya
Apr 5, 2021, 4:28:38 PM4/5/21
to
galii se koi bhi guzre to chauNk uThtaa huuN
naye makaan meN khiRkii nahiiN banaauuNgaa
Zoya
Apr 6, 2021, 6:23:29 PM4/6/21
to
bas mujhe yuuN hi ik Khayaal aayaa
sochtii ho to sochtii ho kyaa??
sochtii ho to sochtii ho kyaa??
Raj Kumar
Apr 6, 2021, 7:34:30 PM4/6/21
to
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 3:23:29 PM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> bas mujhe yuuN hi ik Khayaal aayaa
> sochtii ho to sochtii ho kyaa??
***ab voh pahle se ta'alluq to nahiiN haiN, phir bhii
> bas mujhe yuuN hi ik Khayaal aayaa
> sochtii ho to sochtii ho kyaa??
"dekh kar mujh ko tire zehn meN aataa kyaa hai"?
Zoya
Apr 6, 2021, 10:43:09 PM4/6/21
to
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 6:34:30 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***ab voh pahle se ta'alluq to nahiiN haiN, phir bhii
> "dekh kar mujh ko tire zehn meN aataa kyaa hai"?
tum ko dekhaa to yeh Khayaal aayaa
> ***ab voh pahle se ta'alluq to nahiiN haiN, phir bhii
> "dekh kar mujh ko tire zehn meN aataa kyaa hai"?
zindagii dhuup tum ghanaa saayaa :-)
Irfan Abid
Apr 6, 2021, 11:43:40 PM4/6/21
to
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:11:15 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:20:11 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> > Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> >
> > I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
> Irfan sahib, Having listened to the recording, I want to thank you again. Soulful singing. Of course the lyrics, but ahhh the tune. Low key, and with a haunting quality.
>
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:20:11 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> > Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> >
> > I emailed you the link to your farmaaish. Enjoy! :)
> Irfan sahib, Having listened to the recording, I want to thank you again. Soulful singing. Of course the lyrics, but ahhh the tune. Low key, and with a haunting quality.
>
Thanks for your kind words!
> I just got an idea, maybe we should start a new thread on Alup. I even have a name in mind, "tamiil-e- irshaad", ek aisaa thread jis meN ham farmaaish kareN aur aap naghme sunaayeN. Game? Of course, we will also post asha'ar to go with the songs, "ek she'r ek naghmaa" types. :-))
>
> You know what though, while listening to the song, a nazm by 'Majaz' came to my mind, sort of the flip side:
>
> "ab mire paas tum aayii ho to kyaa aayii ho"
>
> and a JE she'r:
>
> ab mujhe ḳhud apnii baahoN par nahiiN hai iKhtiyaar
> haath phailaaye koii be_iKhtiyaar aayaa to kyaa
>
> ______Zoya
>
dil pe chaltaa hai iKhtiyaar un kaa
jab yih be.iKhtiyaar hotaa hai (Safi Aurangabadi)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Zoya
Apr 7, 2021, 11:02:00 AM4/7/21
to
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 10:43:40 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
aadaab Irfan sahib,
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
> > I just got an idea, maybe we should start a new thread on Alup. ek aisaa thread jis meN ham farmaaish kareN aur aap naghme sunaayeN. Game? Of course, we will also post asha'ar to go with the songs, "ek she'r ek naghmaa" types. :-))
> Sure. I am in. :)
> lafz-e-be.iKhtiyaar par yih nagiina dekhiye:
>
> dil pe chaltaa hai iKhtiyaar un kaa
> jab yih be.iKhtiyaar hotaa hai (Safi Aurangabadi)
dil mere iKhtiyaar meN hotaa to thaa magar
yeh tere iKhtiyaar se pehle ki baat hai!
Zoya
Apr 10, 2021, 3:25:41 PM4/10/21
to
shame' ghazal kii lau ban jaaye, aisaa misra' ho to kaho
ik ik harf meN soch kii Khushbuu, dil ka ujaalaa ho to kaho
ik ik harf meN soch kii Khushbuu, dil ka ujaalaa ho to kaho
Zoya
Apr 15, 2021, 12:51:46 PM4/15/21
to
voh mere saath hai aur mujh se ham_kalaam bhi hai
yeh ek 'umr kii tanhaaiioN ke ba'ad khulaa
yeh ek 'umr kii tanhaaiioN ke ba'ad khulaa
Irfan Abid
Apr 18, 2021, 4:55:26 PM4/18/21
to
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 12:51:46 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> voh mere saath hai aur mujh se ham_kalaam bhi hai
> yeh ek 'umr kii tanhaaiioN ke ba'ad khulaa
>
ik halqa-e-ahbaab hai tanhaayii bhii us kii
> voh mere saath hai aur mujh se ham_kalaam bhi hai
> yeh ek 'umr kii tanhaaiioN ke ba'ad khulaa
>
ik ham haiN ki har bazm meN tanhaa nazar aaye (Wamiq Jaunpuri)
Zoya
Apr 18, 2021, 6:01:25 PM4/18/21
to
On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 3:55:26 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> ik halqa-e-ahbaab hai tanhaayii bhii us kii
> ik ham haiN ki har bazm meN tanhaa nazar aaye (Wamiq Jaunpuri)
Yes, sir! baqaul JaaN Nisaar Akhtar:
> ik halqa-e-ahbaab hai tanhaayii bhii us kii
> ik ham haiN ki har bazm meN tanhaa nazar aaye (Wamiq Jaunpuri)
mutrib bhi tuu, nadiim bhi tuu, saaqiyaa bhi tuu
tuu jaan-e-anjuman hi nahiiN, anjuman bhi hai! :-)
Raj Kumar
Apr 18, 2021, 6:08:22 PM4/18/21
to
tirii maujuudagii meN bhii khaTaktii hai kamii terii (R K Qais)***
Message has been deleted
Zoya
Apr 18, 2021, 7:36:01 PM4/18/21
to
On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 5:08:22 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> ***tirii furqat meN bhii eiHsaas hotaa hai rafaaqat kaa
> tirii maujuudagii meN bhii khaTaktii hai kamii terii (R K Qais)***
yeh qurb kyaa hai k tuu saamne hai aur hameN
shumaar abhii se judaaii ki sa'ateN karnii :(
Zoya
Apr 19, 2021, 12:23:08 PM4/19/21
to
qaid meN guzre gi jo umr baRe kaam ki thii
par maiN kyaa karti k zanjiir tire naam ki thii
Zoya
Apr 20, 2021, 12:51:21 PM4/20/21
to
tum phir na aa sako ge bataanaa to thaa mujhe
tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
B.G. M.
Apr 20, 2021, 2:18:18 PM4/20/21
to
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 12:51:21 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> tum phir na aa sako ge bataanaa to thaa mujhe
> tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
“Jaanaa tha ham se duur, bahaane banaa liye
> tum phir na aa sako ge bataanaa to thaa mujhe
> tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
ab tum ne kitne duur Thikaane banaa liye!”
~Rajinder Krishan
===============================
Raj Kumar
Apr 20, 2021, 2:20:46 PM4/20/21
to
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 9:51:21 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> tum phir na aa sako ge bataanaa to thaa mujhe
> tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
***lauT kar phir na voh aayaa jo kahaa kartaa thaa
> tum phir na aa sako ge bataanaa to thaa mujhe
> tum duur jaa ke bas gaye, maiN DhuuNDtaa phiraa :(
"maiN gayaa vaqt nahiiN huuN k phir aa bhii na sakuuN"***
Zoya
Apr 20, 2021, 4:45:16 PM4/20/21
to
> ***lauT kar phir na voh aayaa jo kahaa kartaa thaa
> "maiN gayaa vaqt nahiiN huuN k phir aa bhii na sakuuN"***
RK sahib, yeh she'r maiN ne aap se kaii baras qabl sunaa thaa, aur mujhe bhii yakdam yaad ho gaya thaa.Ghalib ke kisii misre par is se behtar girah maiN ne to kabhi nahiiN dekhii. mujhe yeh bhi yaad hai k aap ne bataayaa tha yeh girah Canada kii ek sha'airaa ne lagaayii thii.
> "maiN gayaa vaqt nahiiN huuN k phir aa bhii na sakuuN"***
Ahhhhh, the female perspective. Back to Parveen Shakir:
mumkinaa faisloN meN ek hijr ka faislaa bhi thaa
ham ne to ek baat kii, us ne kamaal kar diyaa :-(
Zoya
Apr 21, 2021, 9:50:37 AM4/21/21
to
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:18:18 PM UTC-5, B.G. M. wrote:
> “Jaanaa tha ham se duur, bahaane banaa liye
> ab tum ne kitne duur Thikaane banaa liye!”
thankan to agle safar ke liye bahaanaa thaa
> “Jaanaa tha ham se duur, bahaane banaa liye
> ab tum ne kitne duur Thikaane banaa liye!”
use to yuuN bhi kisii aur samt jaanaa thaa
Raj Kumar
Apr 21, 2021, 11:32:35 AM4/21/21
to
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 6:50:37 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
> *thakan* to agle safar ke liye bahaanaa thaa (typo corrected)
musaafiroN ko abhii kitne kos jaanaa hai [RK Qais]***
> *thakan* to agle safar ke liye bahaanaa thaa (typo corrected)
> use to yuuN bhi kisii aur samt jaanaa thaa
***tirii galii to faqat ik paRaao hai, ai dost!
musaafiroN ko abhii kitne kos jaanaa hai [RK Qais]***
Zoya
Apr 21, 2021, 12:16:21 PM4/21/21
to
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> > *thakan* to agle safar ke liye bahaanaa thaa (typo corrected)
> > use to yuuN bhi kisii aur samt jaanaa thaa
Thank you, sir. :)
> > *thakan* to agle safar ke liye bahaanaa thaa (typo corrected)
> > use to yuuN bhi kisii aur samt jaanaa thaa
> ***tirii galii to faqat ik paRaao hai, ai dost!
> musaafiroN ko abhii kitne kos jaanaa hai [RK Qais]***
zindagii apnii musalsal chaahatoN kaa ik safar
is safar meN baarhaa mil kar bichhaR jaataa hai voh!
is baat par aap kyaa kehte haiN? :)
Zoya
Apr 24, 2021, 11:37:42 AM4/24/21
to
Watching, hearing and talking about the devastating toll that the latest Covid wave is taking in India. Faiz comes to mind:
...... lauT jaatii hai udhar ko bhi nazar kyaa kiije
ab bhi dilkash hai tiraa husn magar kyaa kiije
aur bhi dukh haiN zamaane meN muhabbat ke sivaa...........
...... lauT jaatii hai udhar ko bhi nazar kyaa kiije
ab bhi dilkash hai tiraa husn magar kyaa kiije
aur bhi dukh haiN zamaane meN muhabbat ke sivaa...........
Message has been deleted
Zoya
Apr 25, 2021, 8:37:32 AM4/25/21
to
Catastrophic variants. Gasping patients. Desperate relatives. Haunting visuals. Covid 2021.
saaNs letaa huN to dam ghuTtaa hai
kaisi bedard havaa hai yaaro
saaNs letaa huN to dam ghuTtaa hai
kaisi bedard havaa hai yaaro
Irfan Abid
Apr 25, 2021, 12:22:22 PM4/25/21
to
taariiKh ke safhoN pe jo insaan baRe haiN
un meN bahut aise haiN jo laashoN pe khaRe haiN (Nazish Pratapgadhi)
Zoya
Apr 25, 2021, 12:46:48 PM4/25/21
to
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 11:22:22 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> Very sad, very moving indeed. Considering the conditions in India, this was a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of what we are witnessing could have been averted had the powers that be acted a bit more responsibly.
>
> taariiKh ke safhoN pe jo insaan baRe haiN
> un meN bahut aise haiN jo laashoN pe khaRe haiN (Nazish Pratapgadhi)
I agree Irfan sahib, a very valid point indeed. baqaul Sahir:
> Very sad, very moving indeed. Considering the conditions in India, this was a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of what we are witnessing could have been averted had the powers that be acted a bit more responsibly.
>
> taariiKh ke safhoN pe jo insaan baRe haiN
> un meN bahut aise haiN jo laashoN pe khaRe haiN (Nazish Pratapgadhi)
ai rehbar-e-mulk-o-qaum bataa
yeh kis ka lahuu hai kaun maraa??
Afzal A. Khan
Apr 25, 2021, 12:55:38 PM4/25/21
to
On 3/23/2021 5:12 PM, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Before you think I am "too serious" kinda guy ... here is a naughty one from Kaliim Aajiz sher ...
>
> daaman pe kOii chhiNT na khanjar pe kOii daaGH
> tum qatl karO hO ke karaamaat karO hO
>
> Dinesh
Shenoy saheb,
Kindly permit me to disagree with you.
This particular sher ought not to be termed as
"naughty".
OTOH, it is deadly serious.
Janaab Kaleem 'Aajiz Saheb had recited this sher at
a function in New Delhi, while the then Prime Minister
Smt. Indira Gandhi was sitting right in front of him
in the first row of listeners.
The poet had addressed the Prime Minister directly.
I think the reference in the sher was to the Emergency
that Mrs. Gandhi had imposed in 1975.
I believe I had once posted the entire poem in ALUP.
It takes courage to directly confront the Prime Minister
of the day.
****************
Today, we have the spectacle of the "godi" media whose
members keep on shouting from the rooftops about how the
country has progressed in leaps and bounds, under
the present ruling dispensation.
Afzal
> Before you think I am "too serious" kinda guy ... here is a naughty one from Kaliim Aajiz sher ...
>
> daaman pe kOii chhiNT na khanjar pe kOii daaGH
> tum qatl karO hO ke karaamaat karO hO
>
> Dinesh
Shenoy saheb,
Kindly permit me to disagree with you.
This particular sher ought not to be termed as
"naughty".
OTOH, it is deadly serious.
Janaab Kaleem 'Aajiz Saheb had recited this sher at
a function in New Delhi, while the then Prime Minister
Smt. Indira Gandhi was sitting right in front of him
in the first row of listeners.
The poet had addressed the Prime Minister directly.
I think the reference in the sher was to the Emergency
that Mrs. Gandhi had imposed in 1975.
I believe I had once posted the entire poem in ALUP.
It takes courage to directly confront the Prime Minister
of the day.
****************
Today, we have the spectacle of the "godi" media whose
members keep on shouting from the rooftops about how the
country has progressed in leaps and bounds, under
the present ruling dispensation.
Afzal
Zoya
Apr 26, 2021, 1:14:30 PM4/26/21
to
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 11:55:38 AM UTC-5, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> > Before you think I am "too serious" kinda guy ... here is a naughty one from Kaliim Aajiz sher ...
> > daaman pe kOii chhiNT na khanjar pe kOii daaGH
> > tum qatl karO hO ke karaamaat karO hO
> >
> > Dinesh
>
> Shenoy saheb,
>
> Kindly permit me to disagree with you.
>
> This particular sher ought not to be termed as
> "naughty".
>
> OTOH, it is deadly serious.
>
> Janaab Kaleem 'Aajiz Saheb had recited this sher at
> a function in New Delhi, while the then Prime Minister
> Smt. Indira Gandhi was sitting right in front of him
> in the first row of listeners.
> The poet had addressed the Prime Minister directly.
> I think the reference in the sher was to the Emergency
> that Mrs. Gandhi had imposed in 1975.
> Afzal
> > Before you think I am "too serious" kinda guy ... here is a naughty one from Kaliim Aajiz sher ...
> > daaman pe kOii chhiNT na khanjar pe kOii daaGH
> > tum qatl karO hO ke karaamaat karO hO
> >
> > Dinesh
>
> Shenoy saheb,
>
> Kindly permit me to disagree with you.
>
> This particular sher ought not to be termed as
> "naughty".
>
> OTOH, it is deadly serious.
>
> Janaab Kaleem 'Aajiz Saheb had recited this sher at
> a function in New Delhi, while the then Prime Minister
> Smt. Indira Gandhi was sitting right in front of him
> in the first row of listeners.
> The poet had addressed the Prime Minister directly.
> I think the reference in the sher was to the Emergency
> that Mrs. Gandhi had imposed in 1975.
Afzal sahib,
Good to see you in this thread. :)
For some reason, Dinesh sahib had deleted his original post containing the Kaleem Aajiz she'r, perhaps he realized the context in which this she'r had been written. This is the most popular ghazal of Kaleen Aajiz, and as you mentioned has been discussed previously in Alup, probably more than once.
Either way, I would like to say that if a reader is unfamiliar with the circumstances behind this ghazal, it is totally understandable how this particular sh'er may be read/quoted in a lighter vein.
Another example I want to quote here is a she'r by Naseer Turabi, who passed away recently:
a'daavateN thiiN, taghaaful thaa, ranjisheN thiiN bahut
biChhaRne vaale meN sab kuChh thaa, bevafaaii na thii
Unless the reader already knows that Turabi sahib had written the ghazal containing this sh'er with reference to East Pakistan breaking away as Bangladesh, who can guess that? This she'r can be, and often has been, quoted in completely different circumstances also. An interesting fact is that many years after it was written, this particular ghazal was used as the title song for a popular Pakistani TV serial 'Hamsafar', which had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh!
Hope to see you around here more often. Thanks for providing the opportunity for another interesting discussion.
______Zoya
Naseer
Apr 26, 2021, 1:47:15 PM4/26/21
to
On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 18:14:30 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
>
> For some reason, Dinesh sahib had deleted his original post containing the Kaleem Aajiz she'r, perhaps he realized the context in which this she'r had been written. This is the most popular ghazal of Kaleen Aajiz, and as you mentioned has been discussed previously in Alup, probably more than once.
>
> Either way, I would like to say that if a reader is unfamiliar with the circumstances behind this ghazal, it is totally understandable how this particular sh'er may be read/quoted in a lighter vein.
>
> Another example I want to quote here is a she'r by Naseer Turabi, who passed away recently:
>
> a'daavateN thiiN, taghaaful thaa, ranjisheN thiiN bahut
> biChhaRne vaale meN sab kuChh thaa, bevafaaii na thii
>
> Unless the reader already knows that Turabi sahib had written the ghazal containing this sh'er with reference to East Pakistan breaking away as Bangladesh, who can guess that? This she'r can be, and often has been, quoted in completely different circumstances also. An interesting fact is that many years after it was written, this particular ghazal was used as the title song for a popular Pakistani TV serial 'Hamsafar', which had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh!
Well, my suggestion is that the reader and writer ought to make some effort to ascertain the truth behind the matter before posting something which can be refuted later, with ample documentary evidence. Naseer Turabi, obviously did not do his home work before composing this particular shi3r, if indeed it refers to the break up of Pakistan. There was not only "taGhaaful" on the part of Naseer Turabi but "be-vafaa'ii" and shear treason and treachery on the part of Sheikh Mujubur Rehman. I have quoted this piece in another thread before and I shall quote it again. The quote is concerned with "The Agartala Conspiracy Case", where it was alleged by the Pakistan governnment that Shaikh Mujibur Rahman and his supporters, in the early 60s, had meetings with India's intelligence operatives.
>
> For some reason, Dinesh sahib had deleted his original post containing the Kaleem Aajiz she'r, perhaps he realized the context in which this she'r had been written. This is the most popular ghazal of Kaleen Aajiz, and as you mentioned has been discussed previously in Alup, probably more than once.
>
> Either way, I would like to say that if a reader is unfamiliar with the circumstances behind this ghazal, it is totally understandable how this particular sh'er may be read/quoted in a lighter vein.
>
> Another example I want to quote here is a she'r by Naseer Turabi, who passed away recently:
>
> a'daavateN thiiN, taghaaful thaa, ranjisheN thiiN bahut
> biChhaRne vaale meN sab kuChh thaa, bevafaaii na thii
>
> Unless the reader already knows that Turabi sahib had written the ghazal containing this sh'er with reference to East Pakistan breaking away as Bangladesh, who can guess that? This she'r can be, and often has been, quoted in completely different circumstances also. An interesting fact is that many years after it was written, this particular ghazal was used as the title song for a popular Pakistani TV serial 'Hamsafar', which had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh!
"In 2010, and on the anniversary of the withdrawal on 22 February 2011, surviving conspirator and Deputy Speaker of the Parliament Shawkat Ali confessed to the parliament at a point of order that the charges read out to them were accurate, stating that they formed a Shangram Parishad (Action Committee) under Sheikh Mujib for the secession of East Pakistan.[1][5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartala_Conspiracy_Case
Naseer
Zoya
Apr 26, 2021, 5:11:15 PM4/26/21
to
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:47:15 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> Well, my suggestion is that the reader and writer ought to make some effort to ascertain the truth behind the matter before posting something which can be refuted later, with ample documentary evidence.
Well, my response is that unless people are writing academic papers in literary settings, it is unrealistic to expect them to do extensive background research while casually quoting random couplets. Exceptions being when quoting from famous and/or classic poems written under commonly known circumstances. In my view, neither Kaleem Aajiz's nor Naseer Turabi's ghazals under discussion, brilliant and fairly popular as they are, fall in these categories.
> Well, my suggestion is that the reader and writer ought to make some effort to ascertain the truth behind the matter before posting something which can be refuted later, with ample documentary evidence.
Naseer Turabi, obviously did not do his home work before composing this particular shi3r, if indeed it refers to the break up of Pakistan. There was not only "taGhaaful" on the part of Naseer Turabi but "be-vafaa'ii" and shear treason and treachery on the part of Sheikh Mujubur Rehman. I have quoted this piece in another thread before and I shall quote it again. The quote is concerned with "The Agartala Conspiracy Case", where it was alleged by the Pakistan governnment that Shaikh Mujibur Rahman and his supporters, in the early 60s, had meetings with India's intelligence operatives.
>
> "In 2010, and on the anniversary of the withdrawal on 22 February 2011, surviving conspirator and Deputy Speaker of the Parliament Shawkat Ali confessed to the parliament at a point of order that the charges read out to them were accurate, stating that they formed a Shangram Parishad (Action Committee) under Sheikh Mujib for the secession of East Pakistan.[1][5]"
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartala_Conspiracy_Case
>
> Naseer
And now let me quote the very famous matlaa of the ghazal:
voh hamsafar thaa, magar us se ham_navaaii na thii
k dhuup ChhaoN kaa a'alam rahaa, judaaii na thii
Quite far removed from the original intent (Bangladesh) of the poet, I have personally heard this she'r being quoted in the context of long lasting 'arranged' marriages. Reader's spin. :)
_________Zoya
Dinesh Shenoy
Apr 26, 2021, 10:47:46 PM4/26/21
to
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 11:14:30 AM UTC-6, Zoya wrote:
<snip>
> > Afzal
>
> Afzal sahib,
>
> Good to see you in this thread. :)
>
> For some reason, Dinesh sahib had deleted his original post containing the Kaleem Aajiz she'r, perhaps he realized the context in which this she'r had been written. This is the most popular ghazal of Kaleen Aajiz, and as you mentioned has been discussed previously in Alup, probably more than once.
>
> Either way, I would like to say that if a reader is unfamiliar with the circumstances behind this ghazal, it is totally understandable how this particular sh'er may be read/quoted in a lighter vein.
>
> Another example I want to quote here is a she'r by Naseer Turabi, who passed away recently:
>
> a'daavateN thiiN, taghaaful thaa, ranjisheN thiiN bahut
> biChhaRne vaale meN sab kuChh thaa, bevafaaii na thii
>
> Unless the reader already knows that Turabi sahib had written the ghazal containing this sh'er with reference to East Pakistan breaking away as Bangladesh, who can guess that? This she'r can be, and often has been, quoted in completely different circumstances also. An interesting fact is that many years after it was written, this particular ghazal was used as the title song for a popular Pakistani TV serial 'Hamsafar', which had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh!
>
> Hope to see you around here more often. Thanks for providing the opportunity for another interesting discussion.
>
> ______Zoya
Zoya sahiba - first off, thanks for coming to my defense (not that Afzal sahib was upset with me :) ).
Yes, after posting the sher I vaguely remembered reading it on ALUP and, after searching for it and finding it, I decided to delete my post. And, yes, without knowing the context of the sher it can be interpreted as an aashiq complaining to his mehbooba ... also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants :)
Btw, your (quoted) sher "saaNs letaa huuN tO" ... was apt and ... pain-filled ... in the similar vein ...
ab naye saal kii mohalat nahiiN milane vaalii
aa chuke ab to shab-o-roz azaaboN vaale
-- Ahmed Faraz
Dinesh
<snip>
> > Afzal
>
> Afzal sahib,
>
> Good to see you in this thread. :)
>
> For some reason, Dinesh sahib had deleted his original post containing the Kaleem Aajiz she'r, perhaps he realized the context in which this she'r had been written. This is the most popular ghazal of Kaleen Aajiz, and as you mentioned has been discussed previously in Alup, probably more than once.
>
> Either way, I would like to say that if a reader is unfamiliar with the circumstances behind this ghazal, it is totally understandable how this particular sh'er may be read/quoted in a lighter vein.
>
> Another example I want to quote here is a she'r by Naseer Turabi, who passed away recently:
>
> a'daavateN thiiN, taghaaful thaa, ranjisheN thiiN bahut
> biChhaRne vaale meN sab kuChh thaa, bevafaaii na thii
>
> Unless the reader already knows that Turabi sahib had written the ghazal containing this sh'er with reference to East Pakistan breaking away as Bangladesh, who can guess that? This she'r can be, and often has been, quoted in completely different circumstances also. An interesting fact is that many years after it was written, this particular ghazal was used as the title song for a popular Pakistani TV serial 'Hamsafar', which had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh!
>
> Hope to see you around here more often. Thanks for providing the opportunity for another interesting discussion.
>
> ______Zoya
Yes, after posting the sher I vaguely remembered reading it on ALUP and, after searching for it and finding it, I decided to delete my post. And, yes, without knowing the context of the sher it can be interpreted as an aashiq complaining to his mehbooba ... also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants :)
Btw, your (quoted) sher "saaNs letaa huuN tO" ... was apt and ... pain-filled ... in the similar vein ...
ab naye saal kii mohalat nahiiN milane vaalii
aa chuke ab to shab-o-roz azaaboN vaale
-- Ahmed Faraz
Dinesh
Zoya
Apr 27, 2021, 12:03:11 AM4/27/21
to
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 9:47:46 PM UTC-5, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Zoya sahiba - first off, thanks for coming to my defense (not that Afzal sahib was upset with me :) ).
You are most welcome, Dinesh sahib. I didn't think Afzal sahib was upset with you, in fact I was glad that your (deleted) post prompted him to visit this thread. :)
> Zoya sahiba - first off, thanks for coming to my defense (not that Afzal sahib was upset with me :) ).
> Yes, after posting the sher I vaguely remembered reading it on ALUP and, after searching for it and finding it, I decided to delete my post. And, yes, without knowing the context of the sher it can be interpreted as an aashiq complaining to his mehbooba ... also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants :)
> Btw, your (quoted) sher "saaNs letaa huuN tO" ... was apt and ... pain-filled ... in the similar vein ...
>
> ab naye saal kii mohalat nahiiN milane vaalii
> aa chuke ab to shab-o-roz azaaboN vaale
> -- Ahmed Faraz
> Dinesh
The Faraz she'r that you have quoted is so apt.
And now this, by Dushyant Kumar:
haalaat-e-jism suurat-e-jaaN aur bhii Kharaab
chaaroN taraf Kharaab, yahaaN aur bhii Kharaab :(
_______Zoya
Naseer
Apr 27, 2021, 12:48:32 AM4/27/21
to
On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 03:47:46 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Yes, after posting the sher I vaguely remembered reading it on ALUP and, after searching for it and finding it, I decided to delete my post. And, yes, without knowing the context of the sher it can be interpreted as an aashiq complaining to his mehbooba ... also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants :)
> Dinesh
> Yes, after posting the sher I vaguely remembered reading it on ALUP and, after searching for it and finding it, I decided to delete my post. And, yes, without knowing the context of the sher it can be interpreted as an aashiq complaining to his mehbooba ... also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants :)
Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab.
I am not sure I would be able to provide the response in the affirmative for your question, "...also, doesn't the reader have the right/choice to interpret the sher in any which way he/she wants(?):)"
Here is just one example to illustrate my point.
jins-i-naa-yaab-i-muHabbat ko phir arzaaN kar de
Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de
Iqbal (Shikvah)
The late Khushwant Singh, provides this interpretation.
Make abundant that rare commodity love, so that all may buy and sell.
Convert to Islam India's millions who still in temples dwell.
Would you go along with this interpretation?
Naseer
Naseer
Apr 27, 2021, 1:36:51 AM4/27/21
to
Naseer
Dinesh Shenoy
Apr 27, 2021, 1:13:51 PM4/27/21
to
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 11:36:51 PM UTC-6, Naseer wrote:
<snip>
> >
> > Naseer
> Further to my last Dinesh SaaHib, are you the same "Dinesh" who took part in the thread entitled "abhi to main jawaa hoon: meanings please..." in May 2020?
>
> Naseer
No, Naseer sahib. I am revisiting ALUP after many ... years.
Dinesh
<snip>
> >
> > Naseer
> Further to my last Dinesh SaaHib, are you the same "Dinesh" who took part in the thread entitled "abhi to main jawaa hoon: meanings please..." in May 2020?
>
> Naseer
Dinesh
Dinesh Shenoy
Apr 27, 2021, 1:57:36 PM4/27/21
to
Growing up in (Indian) Hyderabad, I developed a love for Urdu (poetry), and whenever possible I have tried to read Urdu poetry online in roman script. It is one of my dream post-retirement projects to learn to read Urdu and then read the classics. kuchh aaTh-dus saal kii baat hai :)
Having said that, let me also admit that I have NOT read Iqbal's shikvah or javaab-e shikvah, just the occasional quotes from learned people like yourself. Now, coming to the sher that you have quoted, I can easily see how a novice like myself could mis-interpret the religion Vs the concept of Islam when Iqbal syas "musalmaaN kar de". Although, I agree someone like Khushwant Singh should know better. I Googled to better understand the couplet, and found this below.
Bring, O Lord, within our grasp that most rare love for which we pray;
To India’s temple‐squatters teach the truth of the Islamic way.
In one of your earlier articles on ALUP, you educate us saying dair is used in a more generic way as "place of worship", not addressing "temples/hindus" but, in reality referring to Muslims in India. But ... isn't the word "dair" typically used for (hindu) temples. Ex : dair-O-haram to specifically differentiate a temple from a mosque, chiraag-e-dair, the (oil) lamp typically lit in (hindu) temples? While researching this issue, I ran into this sher (by none other than Miir) which further tells me dair is usually used to indicate a temple?
miir ke diin-O-mazhab kO ab puuchhte kyaa ho un ne tO
qashqa khIINchaa dair meiN baiThaa kab kaa tark islaam kiyaa
Dinesh
Naseer
Apr 27, 2021, 2:28:27 PM4/27/21
to
In this case, please allow me to make a confession. When I welcomed you upon your return to ALUP, I had the other Dinesh SaaHib in mind. So, I shall do the honour once again. Welcome back to ALUP!
Naseer
Naseer
Apr 28, 2021, 12:01:14 AM4/28/21
to
On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 18:57:36 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
> First off, let me admit that my knowledge of Urdu language and its literature is extremely ... miniscule. So, please keep this in mind while reading and responding to the rest of this post :)
>
> Growing up in (Indian) Hyderabad, I developed a love for Urdu (poetry), and whenever possible I have tried to read Urdu poetry online in roman script. It is one of my dream post-retirement projects to learn to read Urdu and then read the classics. kuchh aaTh-dus saal kii baat hai :)
Your love for Urdu poetry and your deep desire to learn the Urdu script is truly admirable. Would you believe that Kaifi Azami's daughter Shabana Azami can not read Urdu script at all!? My advice to you you is to invest in a children's Qaa3idah and before you know it, you will be reading "alif anaar" and "be-bakrii"!:-)
> Having said that, let me also admit that I have NOT read Iqbal's shikvah or javaab-e shikvah, just the occasional quotes from learned people like yourself. Now, coming to the sher that you have quoted, I can easily see how a novice like myself could mis-interpret the religion Vs the concept of Islam when Iqbal says "musalmaaN kar de". Although, I agree someone like Khushwant Singh should know better. I Googled to better understand the couplet, and found this below.
thaa jin ke dam-qadam se yih aabaad aashiyaaN
vuh chahchaatii bulbuleN, jaane ga'iiN kahaaN
Well, at least 3 of those "bulbuls" are still around and, unfortunately, the rest have flown away!
The translation you have found on the net is still inaccurate.
> In one of your earlier articles on ALUP, you educate us saying dair is used in a more generic way as "place of worship", not addressing "temples/hindus" but, in reality referring to Muslims in India. But ... isn't the word "dair" typically used for (hindu) temples. Ex : dair-O-haram to specifically differentiate a temple from a mosque, chiraag-e-dair, the (oil) lamp typically lit in (hindu) temples? While researching this issue, I ran into this sher (by none other than Miir) which further tells me dair is usually used to indicate a temple?
>
> miir ke diin-O-mazhab kO ab puuchhte kyaa ho un ne tO
> qashqa khIINchaa dair meiN baiThaa kab kaa tark islaam kiyaa
>
> Dinesh
My aim in quoting this shi3r with Khushwant Singh's translation was not in any way to test your knowledge and understanding of Urdu poetry but to make a point. I agree with you that one is free to make one's own interpretation of a shi3r but every interpratation is not always true or acceptable. On a number of occasions I have given my understanding of a Raj Kumar "Qais" shi3r and an Irfan Abid shi3r but the two gentlemen have provided me with a totally different explanation of what they had in mind. One can have a different interpreation of a shi3r from what the creator had in his mind (if we have access to that information) but it should not be a rediculous, unbelievable or inaccurate rendering. In the case of Khushwant Singh's translation, he has got it completely wrong. If you wish to read a bit more about this, please take a look at the thread below, in your own sweet time of course.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/DTfSI5p-4UQ/m/fAGP49PnBQAJ
In the case of Naseer Turabi's shi3r, even if he were to return from his grave and tell us that he wrote it with Pakistan and Bangladesh in mind, historical facts tell us that he was wrong. We know this *is* the case because the information has come "from the horse's mouth", who is one of the individuals charged with the conspiracy!
All you have said about the meaning and significance of the word "dair" is correct. But, a poet like Iqbal, would never have pleaded and never did plead to God about mass conversion of Hindus who go to and worship in their temples.
You may or may not know, Iqbal's Shikvah, is his complaint to God about the sorry state of affairs of the Muslim community in general but in India in particular. God then replies in "Javaab-i-Shikvah" and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Muslims themselves and no one else. Both the shikvah and the javaab are in the "musaddas" format (six liner) and this shi3r is in the 27th "band" of the poem. Out of the six lines of this "band", two are in Persian, so I will miss those out.
mushkileN ummat-i-marHuum kii aasaaN kar de
mor-i-be-maayah ko ham-dosh-i-SulaimaaN kar se
................................................................................
................................................................................
I initially thought of offering my own translation of the following line but I now feel I can not do better than quote the late renowned critic, janaab-i-Shamsur Rahman Faruqi, who has written a highly critical review of Khushwant Singh's translation of the Compaint and the Response to the Complaint. Here is a link to the full article.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/annualofurdustudies/pager.html?objectid=PK2151.A6152_2_117.gif
Faruqi writes....
"For example, in the shikwa itself, the fourth line of stanza twenty seven (p54) is "Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de ("These temple-dwellers of India, make them Muslim.") Now dair-nashiin literally means"those who sit in the temples," but here the phrase refers to the Muslims themselves, and not the Hindus. According to the protagonist, the Indian Muslims have lost the quality of Islam, and he prays that God change their hearts and make them true Muslims. Singhtranslates: "Convert to Islam India's millions who still in temples dwell." Thus the poem is made to appear not as a plaint of the Muslims who feel neglected and unloved by God, but as a prayer for conversion of the "infidels". Perhaps it is misinterpretations such as these
which have led Singh to conclude that these poems have the two nation theory in its embryonic stage. There is nothing in the poems which could support such a view. In fact, the poems could be seen as a warning to the Indian Muslims that they have forfeited, and will continue to forfeit, God's favours if they do not mend their ways. They are told that they can not pretend to be God's chosen people just because they claim to be the followers of the Prophet; God's bounty comes to those who deserve it; "Muslim" or "Infidel" in the traditional sense has no meaning for God. What has meaning is true submission, and the qualities of truth, justice, modesty, fortitude, ceaseless strife and action, fear of God rather than the fear of death, in fact all that distinguishes the perfect man............"
I hope this clarifies the issue.
Naseer
Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
> First off, let me admit that my knowledge of Urdu language and its literature is extremely ... miniscule. So, please keep this in mind while reading and responding to the rest of this post :)
>
> Growing up in (Indian) Hyderabad, I developed a love for Urdu (poetry), and whenever possible I have tried to read Urdu poetry online in roman script. It is one of my dream post-retirement projects to learn to read Urdu and then read the classics. kuchh aaTh-dus saal kii baat hai :)
> Having said that, let me also admit that I have NOT read Iqbal's shikvah or javaab-e shikvah, just the occasional quotes from learned people like yourself. Now, coming to the sher that you have quoted, I can easily see how a novice like myself could mis-interpret the religion Vs the concept of Islam when Iqbal says "musalmaaN kar de". Although, I agree someone like Khushwant Singh should know better. I Googled to better understand the couplet, and found this below.
>
> Bring, O Lord, within our grasp that most rare love for which we pray;
> To India’s temple‐squatters teach the truth of the Islamic way.
I assure you, Dinesh SaaHib, I am in no way "learned" at all. What little I know is barely enough to get by. In this group, there indeed exist personalities who are well versed in Urdu literature, especially poetry but in the years gone by, there were a lot more such people. We are lucky to be in the company of such knowledgeable individuals and each day provides opportunities to learn from them. You may recall a well known song by Saigal, "ai kaatib-i-taqdiir mujhe itnaa bataa de...". The song has these two lines...
> Bring, O Lord, within our grasp that most rare love for which we pray;
> To India’s temple‐squatters teach the truth of the Islamic way.
thaa jin ke dam-qadam se yih aabaad aashiyaaN
vuh chahchaatii bulbuleN, jaane ga'iiN kahaaN
Well, at least 3 of those "bulbuls" are still around and, unfortunately, the rest have flown away!
The translation you have found on the net is still inaccurate.
> In one of your earlier articles on ALUP, you educate us saying dair is used in a more generic way as "place of worship", not addressing "temples/hindus" but, in reality referring to Muslims in India. But ... isn't the word "dair" typically used for (hindu) temples. Ex : dair-O-haram to specifically differentiate a temple from a mosque, chiraag-e-dair, the (oil) lamp typically lit in (hindu) temples? While researching this issue, I ran into this sher (by none other than Miir) which further tells me dair is usually used to indicate a temple?
>
> miir ke diin-O-mazhab kO ab puuchhte kyaa ho un ne tO
> qashqa khIINchaa dair meiN baiThaa kab kaa tark islaam kiyaa
>
> Dinesh
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/DTfSI5p-4UQ/m/fAGP49PnBQAJ
In the case of Naseer Turabi's shi3r, even if he were to return from his grave and tell us that he wrote it with Pakistan and Bangladesh in mind, historical facts tell us that he was wrong. We know this *is* the case because the information has come "from the horse's mouth", who is one of the individuals charged with the conspiracy!
All you have said about the meaning and significance of the word "dair" is correct. But, a poet like Iqbal, would never have pleaded and never did plead to God about mass conversion of Hindus who go to and worship in their temples.
You may or may not know, Iqbal's Shikvah, is his complaint to God about the sorry state of affairs of the Muslim community in general but in India in particular. God then replies in "Javaab-i-Shikvah" and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Muslims themselves and no one else. Both the shikvah and the javaab are in the "musaddas" format (six liner) and this shi3r is in the 27th "band" of the poem. Out of the six lines of this "band", two are in Persian, so I will miss those out.
mushkileN ummat-i-marHuum kii aasaaN kar de
mor-i-be-maayah ko ham-dosh-i-SulaimaaN kar se
jins-i-naa-yaab-i-muHabbat ko phir arzaaN kar de
*Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de*
................................................................................
................................................................................
I initially thought of offering my own translation of the following line but I now feel I can not do better than quote the late renowned critic, janaab-i-Shamsur Rahman Faruqi, who has written a highly critical review of Khushwant Singh's translation of the Compaint and the Response to the Complaint. Here is a link to the full article.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/annualofurdustudies/pager.html?objectid=PK2151.A6152_2_117.gif
Faruqi writes....
"For example, in the shikwa itself, the fourth line of stanza twenty seven (p54) is "Hind ke dair-nashiinoN ko musalmaaN kar de ("These temple-dwellers of India, make them Muslim.") Now dair-nashiin literally means"those who sit in the temples," but here the phrase refers to the Muslims themselves, and not the Hindus. According to the protagonist, the Indian Muslims have lost the quality of Islam, and he prays that God change their hearts and make them true Muslims. Singhtranslates: "Convert to Islam India's millions who still in temples dwell." Thus the poem is made to appear not as a plaint of the Muslims who feel neglected and unloved by God, but as a prayer for conversion of the "infidels". Perhaps it is misinterpretations such as these
which have led Singh to conclude that these poems have the two nation theory in its embryonic stage. There is nothing in the poems which could support such a view. In fact, the poems could be seen as a warning to the Indian Muslims that they have forfeited, and will continue to forfeit, God's favours if they do not mend their ways. They are told that they can not pretend to be God's chosen people just because they claim to be the followers of the Prophet; God's bounty comes to those who deserve it; "Muslim" or "Infidel" in the traditional sense has no meaning for God. What has meaning is true submission, and the qualities of truth, justice, modesty, fortitude, ceaseless strife and action, fear of God rather than the fear of death, in fact all that distinguishes the perfect man............"
I hope this clarifies the issue.
Naseer
Zoya
Apr 28, 2021, 10:24:27 AM4/28/21
to
aaj kaa she'r:
i'lm meN bhii suruur hai lekin
yeh voh jannat hai jis meN Huur nahiiN!
Allama Iqbal, of course. :)
i'lm meN bhii suruur hai lekin
yeh voh jannat hai jis meN Huur nahiiN!
Allama Iqbal, of course. :)
Message has been deleted
Dinesh Shenoy
Apr 28, 2021, 5:13:03 PM4/28/21
to
On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 10:01:14 PM UTC-6, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 18:57:36 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
<snip>
> On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 18:57:36 UTC+1, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:
> Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
>
> I hope this clarifies the issue.
>
> Naseer
Thanks for the detailed response, it helped immensely.
Dinesh
Message has been deleted
Zoya
Apr 29, 2021, 10:27:39 AM4/29/21
to
Preamble:
voh kar rahe haiN ishq pe sanjiidah guftguu
maiN kyaa bataauuN mera kahiiN aur dhyaan hai
There is no escape from the devastating toll the latest Covid wave is taking in India. The visuals:
har saRak par, har galii meN, har nagar, har gaaoN meN
haath lehraate hue har laash chalnii chaahiye
Dushyant Kumar
..................
Between all this, the Sikh temples in Delhi taking the concept of 'langar' to another degree, providing the 'oxygen langar' for people desperate to breathe. And the gut wrenching, but heart warming, stories of volunteer Sikh young men transporting bodies of Covid patients who die at home, regardless of their religion, to crematoriums and burial grounds.
aaj kaa she'r:
ibn-e-Mariam huaa kare koii
mere dukh kii davaa kare koii
_______Zoya
voh kar rahe haiN ishq pe sanjiidah guftguu
maiN kyaa bataauuN mera kahiiN aur dhyaan hai
There is no escape from the devastating toll the latest Covid wave is taking in India. The visuals:
har saRak par, har galii meN, har nagar, har gaaoN meN
haath lehraate hue har laash chalnii chaahiye
Dushyant Kumar
..................
Between all this, the Sikh temples in Delhi taking the concept of 'langar' to another degree, providing the 'oxygen langar' for people desperate to breathe. And the gut wrenching, but heart warming, stories of volunteer Sikh young men transporting bodies of Covid patients who die at home, regardless of their religion, to crematoriums and burial grounds.
aaj kaa she'r:
ibn-e-Mariam huaa kare koii
mere dukh kii davaa kare koii
_______Zoya
Zoya
May 1, 2021, 10:09:55 AM5/1/21
to
Callous, egoist politicians. Desperate populace. Overflowing crematoriums. Disaster all around.
aaj kaa she'r:
kal numaa'ish meN milaa voh chiithRe pehne hue
maiN ne puuChhaa naam, to bolaa k Hindustaan hai
Dushyant Kumar
aaj kaa she'r:
kal numaa'ish meN milaa voh chiithRe pehne hue
maiN ne puuChhaa naam, to bolaa k Hindustaan hai
Dushyant Kumar
Zoya
May 3, 2021, 10:30:18 AM5/3/21
to
jis tabaahii se log bachte the
voh sar-e-aam ho rahi hai ab
voh sar-e-aam ho rahi hai ab
Zoya
May 4, 2021, 10:28:55 AM5/4/21
to
An old favorite, with a new twist. By Mustafa Zaidi.
aaj kaa she'r:
gham-e-dauraaN ne bhi siikhe gham-e-jaanaaN ke chalan
vohii sochii hui chaaleN, vohii be_saaKhtapan
aaj kaa she'r:
gham-e-dauraaN ne bhi siikhe gham-e-jaanaaN ke chalan
vohii sochii hui chaaleN, vohii be_saaKhtapan
Zoya
May 6, 2021, 10:46:48 AM5/6/21
to
aaj kaa she'r:
qaatil ko ham ne shahr kaa maalik banaa diyaa
har ghar meN us ne maut ko laa kar biThaa diyaa
Irfan Abid
qaatil ko ham ne shahr kaa maalik banaa diyaa
har ghar meN us ne maut ko laa kar biThaa diyaa
Irfan Abid
Zoya
May 7, 2021, 1:01:16 PM5/7/21
to
azmat-e-mulk is siyaasat ke
haath niilaam ho rahii hai ab
Dushyant Kumar
haath niilaam ho rahii hai ab
Dushyant Kumar
Raj Kumar
May 7, 2021, 1:31:24 PM5/7/21
to
duusrii baat yeh k agar aap yahaaN "haath" ki bajaaye "haathoN" likkheN to bhi (is lafz ke sukeRna se) misr'a baHr meN rahe hoga.
R.K.***
Naseer
May 7, 2021, 2:27:05 PM5/7/21
to
अज़मते-मुल्क इस सियासत के
हाथ नीलाम हो रही है अब
mujhe Hindi Ghazal kaa kuchh bhii 3ilm nahiiN lekin ho saktaa hai kih is qism kaa farq Urdu aur Hindi Ghazal meN ho.
Naseer
Khalid Siddiqui
May 7, 2021, 5:24:25 PM5/7/21
to
I can read simple Hindi. The first word in the second line is definitely 'haath' and not 'haathoN'.
Best wishes.
Khalid
Raj Kumar
May 7, 2021, 5:41:15 PM5/7/21
to
For instance, we say "ham to aap ke haathoN luT gaye"; we don't say "ham to aap ke haath luT gaye"!
R.K.***
Zoya
May 7, 2021, 6:34:02 PM5/7/21
to
I have always been a Dushyant Kumar fan and go back to reading his poetry every so often, as I have been doing for the last few weeks. Some of his asha'ar seem so relevant in the current situation in India, you must have noticed how much I have quoted him lately.
Regarding this she'r, it indeed says 'haath' not 'haathoN', I typed it exactly as Dushyant Kumar wrote it. I have been thinking about the point Prof RK raised and wondering why this usage never seemed odd to me, this ghazal is an old favorite. I believe I have figured out the reason.
When I read this she'r, the 'muhaavraa' that I subconsciously think of is 'haathoN haath biknaa' /'haathoN haath lenaa' etc. I believe this is why 'kisii ke haath niilaam honaa' seems palatable to me. I am not really disagreeing with Prof RK, but may I at least raise the possibility that it can go either way in this particular situation?
Irfan sahib, if you are reading this discussion, will you please let us know what is your take on it?
Another learning opportunity. :)
A perpetual student,
_____Zoya
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages