What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should consider doing for privacy/security?

[Arlen Holder]

What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should
consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile privacy/security?

The topic is huge, so all I would do, for an adult, is provide a bunch of
head-start keyword/URL pointers to any adult who asks that question.

But which keyword pointers would you provide to start with?
o Can you help flesh out this list I just created for them?

In no particular order (yet)...
o Browser fingerprinting (https://panopticlick.eff.org)
o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
o IP address privacy (vpn(*), killswitches)
o IP address check (curl icanhazip.com, http://whatismyipaddress.com)
o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
o Domain blocking (http://winhelp2002.mvps.org & acrylic DNS)
o DNS leaks & encryption (dnscrypt, https://www.dnsleaktest.com)
o OS (copperOS, tails)
o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
o ???

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

(*) Just mentioning the three letters V-P-N will normally induce a hail of
vpn trolls, so let's keep this high level please, where we're just looking
for keywords as we all know the zillions of caveats surrounding VPNs.
--
Usenet is a public potluck where purposefully hellpful people help each
other learn more about the technical topics that they discuss on this ng.

[J.O. Aho]

On 27/12/2019 05:56, Arlen Holder wrote:
> What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should
> consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile privacy/security?

> o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)

There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
profiling you, never trust a free service.

> o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
> o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)

Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
transit)

> o Domain blocking (http://winhelp2002.mvps.org & acrylic DNS)

I would recommend pihole with dnsproxy, also router iptables to redirect
all outgoing traffic over port 53 to the pihole.

> o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)

Avoid wifi, it's insecure and slow compared to a cable.


--

//Aho

[nospam]

In article <h6m208...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho

<us...@example.net> wrote:

> > o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
> > o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
>
> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
> never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
> transit)

it's very easy to know if they have the keys or not.

> > o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
>
> Avoid wifi, it's insecure and slow compared to a cable.

no to both and a cable is not an option most of the time.

[Mayayana]

"J.O. Aho" <us...@example.net> wrote

|
| > o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
|
| There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
| profiling you, never trust a free service.
|

Good tips for general security online, but for anything
resembling privacy you need to:

* Turn off cellphones whenever possible and avoid apps.

* Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
likes of Google and Facebook.

* Avoid enabling javascript except where absolutely
necessary.

That's just for starters. Those are just the most obvious
issues involving constant tracking both online and in terms
of physical location. The third is absolutely necessary for
anyone who hopes to have protection from online attacks.
Nearly every online security risk requires javascript. The
rest generally require other executable code, such as Flash,
Java, Silverlight, etc.

If those steps seem unreasonable then the next best
thing would be to admit to yourself that you value convenience
and Instagram so much that you've decided to accept
wearing a tracking collar at all times and risking malware.
If you're going to be a sucker you can at least not fool
yourself about it.

[Soviet_Mario]

On 27/12/19 10:42, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 27/12/2019 05:56, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what
>> they should
>> consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile
>> privacy/security?
>
>> o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave
>> proxy/tor browsers)
>
> There is always the risk of your data will be used for
> tracking you or profiling you, never trust a free service.

I have no objection with this, but ... why does this not
hold for paid services too ?
As long as they are able enough to get away with it and have
you not even know, even them might profile you.
Or not ? And if not, why not ?
Explain pls

>
>
>> o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
>> o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
>
> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data
> online, as you never know if they will have the key to
> decrypt your data (stored or in transit)

totally agree, even if ones with self-discipline strong
enough to cript stuff manually before uploading could be
sufficiente to workaround the trust

>
>
>> o Domain blocking (http://winhelp2002.mvps.org & acrylic DNS)
>
> I would recommend pihole with dnsproxy, also router iptables
> to redirect all outgoing traffic over port 53 to the pihole.
>
>
>> o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
>
> Avoid wifi, it's insecure and slow compared to a cable.
>
>


--

1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)

[Soviet_Mario]

On 27/12/19 05:56, Arlen Holder wrote:
> What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should
> consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile privacy/security?
>
> The topic is huge, so all I would do, for an adult, is provide a bunch of
> head-start keyword/URL pointers to any adult who asks that question.
>
> But which keyword pointers would you provide to start with?
> o Can you help flesh out this list I just created for them?
>
> In no particular order (yet)...
> o Browser fingerprinting (https://panopticlick.eff.org)
> o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
> o IP address privacy (vpn(*), killswitches)
> o IP address check (curl icanhazip.com, http://whatismyipaddress.com)
> o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
> o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
> o Domain blocking (http://winhelp2002.mvps.org & acrylic DNS)
> o DNS leaks & encryption (dnscrypt, https://www.dnsleaktest.com)
> o OS (copperOS, tails)
> o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
> o ???
>
> *What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*
>
> (*) Just mentioning the three letters V-P-N will normally induce a hail of
> vpn trolls, so let's keep this high level please, where we're just looking
> for keywords as we all know the zillions of caveats surrounding VPNs.
>

you're one of the few that raises general topics, and
intresting ones.
Tnx

[J.O. Aho]

On 27/12/2019 16.41, Soviet_Mario wrote:
> On 27/12/19 10:42, J.O. Aho wrote:
>> On 27/12/2019 05:56, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should
>>> consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile
>>> privacy/security?
>>
>>> o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
>>
>> There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
>> profiling you, never trust a free service.
>
> I have no objection with this, but ... why does this not hold for paid
> services too ?

A paid service don't automatically mean they won't profit from your data
too, so you have still be careful when picking which service to use.


--

//Aho

[J.O. Aho]

On 27/12/2019 12.48, nospam wrote:
> In article <h6m208...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho
> <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>>> o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
>>> o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
>>
>> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
>> never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
>> transit)
>
> it's very easy to know if they have the keys or not.

Not that easy, specially on a mobile phone where you have less control
of things, it make is more difficult to for you to know if your private
key has been shared.

--

//Aho

[J.O. Aho]

On 27/12/2019 14.21, Mayayana wrote:
> "J.O. Aho" <us...@example.net> wrote
>
> |
> | > o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
> |
> | There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
> | profiling you, never trust a free service.
> |
>

> * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
> likes of Google and Facebook.

That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
device you have on your network, do it on one instance.

--

//Aho

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:42:31 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

>> o Browser proxy (Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave proxy/tor browsers)
>
> There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
> profiling you, never trust a free service.

Hi J.O. Aho,

I realize instantly that you're trying to be helpful, which I appreciate,
but it's too easy on Usenet to say why something "can't work" where the
point of this thread is simply to come up with "ideas" via keywords, that
can be made to work.

For example, you can make proxies work simply by adding a VPN (for example)
to the front end of the proxy, where my intent of this thread wasn't to
discuss what "will work", but what "can work".

Nonetheless, we all know the flaws of _every_ keyworded topic I listed, all
of which we can ameliorate to some extent (which isn't the point of this
thread, since the ameliortion discussion can go on, easily, forever).

As an example of amelioration of your objection, it's easy to "add another
proxy" to the existing proxy, where, of course, there's always a "first
proxy", which even itself can be ameliorated by using someone elses' WiFi
connection (for example).

Since I like to make my threads "actionable" (i.e., real, & not bullshit)
as a _simple_ example, you can do this quite easily by way of amelioration:
a. Sit away from Starbuck's cameras with a WiFi enabled iPad on your lap
b. Start any public VPN service on that iPad, so now you're "on VPN".
e.g., <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hide-me-vpn/id953040671>
c. Start any "proxy browser" on that iPad, so now you're on a proxy.
e.g., <https://alohabrowser.com/>
etc.

Sure, there is browser fingerprinting, and dns leaks, and hidden cameras
galore, along with government-sponsored license-plate readers and FBI
Cessnas flying overhead capturing your IMEI that can nab you as you travel
to the Starbucks or sit at home alone... but we have to keep in mind the
basic "threat model" in the situation above, where I was advising a group
of college-age boys on how to better be "private" while on the university
computer system.

Likewise, for example, torrenting amelioration steps could be:
a. Obtain a magnet URL via vpn/proxy/tor & sit on it for increased latency
b. Utilize a killswitch when the torrent begins & set the seed to 2.0
c. Ensure a reliable public VPN service to keep the DCMA notification away
etc.

In summary, we all already know of all these reasons why you "can't have
privacy" on the Internet - but - for a group of college aged kids - there
is still merit in giving them a select set of about a dozen to a score of
privacy/security based "keywords", that they can look up.

Hence, the question here is simply one of privacy-based keywords...

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

>> o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
>> o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
>
> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
> never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
> transit)

Again, for _every_ topic above, there are reasons why someone will say it
"can't work"; when the truth of the matter is that you "can make it work"
by putting in place amelioration steps.

For example, I already told these boys to try as much as possible when
they're at the university to only use their USB cable, where you'll note
that the password solution of using "keypass" works on their desktop
(there's never a need to put a password database on the Internet or even on
the university LAN).

In addition, the same USB-cable amelioration applies to their truecrypt
database, and to their calendar ics file, where I showed them my Android
phone doesn't even have a Google Account, where I can easily maintain my
calendar & passwords & encrypted data over a USB cable from PC to phone.

But the point of this thread is NOT why you "can't have privacy", but why
you "can have privacy", if you know a few keywords to look up for details.

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

>> o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
>
> Avoid wifi, it's insecure and slow compared to a cable.

I told the freshman boys to keep their passwords, calendars, and truecrypt
databases only on their computers & phones (merging via USB cable).

Nonetheless, Wi-Fi is a reality, where I showed them, for example, how to
torrent a bit more safely by simply taking amelioration steps into account.

For example, WiFi amelioration steps could be:
a. Be aware of butterfly hash tables by using unique SSID & passphrases
b. Be aware of Wi-Fi Sense (e.g., _optout) & SSID naming (e.g., _nomap)
c. Be aware of WiGle & Google SSID databases (i.e., SSIDs are geolocated)
etc.

NOTE: Even Android tells people nowadays (at least Android 9 does on my new
$100 Moto G7 for example) that your SSID/BSSID _is_ your geolocation (in
essence) given there are WiGle WiFi wardriving databases which list your
geolocation and that there are freely available Google databases too.
o WiGle SSID/BSSID geolocator <https://wigle.net/>
o Google SSID/BSSID geolocator <https://www.mylnikov.org/archives/1170>
o *Any other sites do people know of that geolocate your BSSID/SSID?*

>> o Domain blocking (http://winhelp2002.mvps.org & acrylic DNS)
>
> I would recommend pihole with dnsproxy, also router iptables to redirect
> all outgoing traffic over port 53 to the pihole.

Ah, _this_ suggestion is in keeping with the spirit of this thread!
Thank you for adding those "domain blocking" keywords, where I'm wholly
unfamiliar with the keyword "pihole" for example (which I've added to the
list above based on your helpful suggestion).

Googling, it seems all three go together (piholes, iptables, firewalls)
<https://docs.pi-hole.net/guides/vpn/firewall/>

My goal, much later, for each keyword, is to have a canonical site, e.g.,
o DNSCRYPT <https://github.com/pi-hole/pi-hole/wiki/DNSCrypt-2.0>
o IPTABLES <https://www.leaseweb.com/labs/2013/12/setup-linux-gateway-using-iptables/>
o FIREWALL <https://opensourceforu.com/2015/04/iptables-the-default-linux-firewall/>
o SSID/BSSID <https://www.maketecheasier.com/google-know-where-wifi-router/>
etc.

Hence, I repeat the question, in that tack, where I ask for more keywords!
o WiFi setup (e.g., WPA2/PSK butterfly hash tables, & wifi sense _optout)
o Wardriving amelioration (e.g., hidden broadcast, _nomap, & BSSID cloning)
o Network firewalls (e.g., router iptables firewalls, wireshark, & tcpdump)
o Privacy smtp/imap servers (e.g., mailinator, & protonmail)
o Browser fingerprinting (e.g., panopticlick.eff.org)
o Browser proxies (e.g., Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave web browsers)
o IP address privacy (e.g., VPNs, web proxy servers, & cmd-line killswitches)
o IP address checks (e.g., curl icanhazip.com, & whatismyipaddress.com)
o Password privacy (e.g., keepass & mobile device equivalents)
o Data privacy (e.g., truecrypt/veracrypt & mobile device equivalents)
o Domain blocking (e.g., HOSTS, pihole, router iptables, MVPhosts & acrylic DNS)
o DNS leaks & encryption (e.g., dnscrypt, dnsproxy, & dnsleaktest.com)
o Privacy-based OS's (e.g., tails, & copperOS)

o ???

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

--
Usenet is a wonderful public potluck where ideas can be fleshed out better.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:42:48 +0100, Soviet_Mario wrote:

> you're one of the few that raises general topics, and
> intresting ones.

Hi Soviet_Mario,
Thanks for that accolade where I'm always trying to find "actionable"
advice, e.g., the advice of "don't use Wi-Fi" isn't really actionable in
today's world, but the advice of "use USB cable for passwords" is
actionable (as previously explained in my prior post to A. J. Aho.

What most people posted is why we "can't have privacy", but I'm trying to
help a group of college freshman in "improving their privacy" while on the
university network.

*The goal of this thread is to come up with meaningfully "actionable" keywords.*

Hence, the intent is to have a canonical site attached to every keyword,
such that they can look up the details on their own; but that's for later.

*Right now I need the score of keywords*, where this is what I've gleaned
from the posts to date by way of basic privacy/security keywords so far:
1. WiFi setup (e.g., WPA2/PSK butterfly hash tables, & wifi sense _optout)
2. Wardriving amelioration (e.g., hidden broadcast, _nomap, & BSSID cloning)
3. Network firewalls (e.g., router iptables firewalls, wireshark, & tcpdump)
4. Privacy smtp/imap servers (e.g., mailinator, & protonmail)
5. Browser fingerprinting (e.g., panopticlick.eff.org)
6. Browser proxies (e.g., Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave web browsers)
7. IP address privacy (e.g., VPNs, web proxy servers, & cmd-line killswitches)
8. IP address checks (e.g., curl icanhazip.com, & whatismyipaddress.com)
9. Password privacy (e.g., keepass & mobile device equivalents)
10. Data privacy (e.g., truecrypt/veracrypt & mobile device equivalents)
11. Domain blocking (e.g., HOSTS, pihole, router iptables, MVPhosts & acrylic DNS)
12. DNS leaks & encryption (e.g., dnscrypt, dnsproxy, & dnsleaktest.com)
13. Privacy-based OS's (e.g., tails, & copperOS)
14-20. ???

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

[nospam]

In article <h6mqs5...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho

<us...@example.net> wrote:

> >>
> >> There is always the risk of your data will be used for tracking you or
> >> profiling you, never trust a free service.
> >
> > I have no objection with this, but ... why does this not hold for paid
> > services too ?
>
> A paid service don't automatically mean they won't profit from your data
> too, so you have still be careful when picking which service to use.

a free service doesn't automatically mean they will datamine.

many times, there's a free tier with limited functionality, with the
hopes that the user will upgrade to a paid tier and additional
features.

[nospam]

In article <h6mr2v...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho

<us...@example.net> wrote:

> > * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
> > likes of Google and Facebook.
>
> That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
> device you have on your network, do it on one instance.

carrying a pihole around everywhere is incredibly impractical.

[nospam]

In article <h6mqvo...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho

<us...@example.net> wrote:

> >> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
> >> never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
> >> transit)
> >
> > it's very easy to know if they have the keys or not.
>
> Not that easy, specially on a mobile phone where you have less control
> of things, it make is more difficult to for you to know if your private
> key has been shared.

not true.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:48:56 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

> Not that easy, specially on a mobile phone where you have less control
> of things, it make is more difficult to for you to know if your private
> key has been shared.

Hi J.O. Aho,

You bring up a good point about "private keys", which hasn't been covered.
(And which is useful because this thread is intended to be "actionable".)

Bear in mind the ultimate goal is a canonical URL for each keyword, e.g.,
o PRIVATE KEY <https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/9834/69/how-can-i-find-the-private-key-for-my-ssl-certificate>
But we still don't yet have the full score of privacy-based keywords yet.

I understand (and appreciate) you're being helpful where this thread wasn't
supposed to be about 'amelioration', as that would extend the thread out to
an infinite number of posts, but partially to your point, I did address
'amelioration' with this gang of college-age freshman boys with respect to
"keyboard privacy".

For example, while it's not about "private keys", this recent thread goes
into gory detail on how to easily switch to privacy-based keyboards on a
mobile device for the purpose of opening the master keepass kdbx passwd
database, which is to be maintained over USB cable wholly outside the
university LAN or the Internet.
o If not the default, what free Android keyboard are you using & why do you like it?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/CmZAI0OsXDs>

Notice that passwords on mobile devices 'can' be somewhat protected simply
by switching, ad hoc, when typing passwords, to a "protective keyboard":
<https://i.postimg.cc/NMjf6fGd/keyboard00.jpg>

As long as the students use a database _designed_ to be used offline:
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvD8RCLw/keypass01.jpg>

And which works on all mobile devices, even these budget devices I own:
<https://i.postimg.cc/136096sR/motog700.jpg>

To the point you and nospam bring up about a "private key", other than PGP
and GnuPGP, I haven't any experience with "private keys".

Should we add PGP private keys to the existing keyword listing to help
flesh it out to the approximately score of keywords all kids should know?
o Private keys (e.g., pgp/gnupgp, & SSL Certificates)
o Privacy keyboards (e.g., non-Google keyboards such as keepass2android keyboard)
o Wi-Fi setup (e.g., WPA2/PSK butterfly hash tables, & wifi sense _optout)

o Wardriving amelioration (e.g., hidden broadcast, _nomap, & BSSID cloning)
o Network firewalls (e.g., router iptables firewalls, wireshark, & tcpdump)
o Privacy smtp/imap servers (e.g., mailinator, & protonmail)
o Browser fingerprinting (e.g., panopticlick.eff.org)

o Browser proxies (e.g., Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave web browsers)
o IP address privacy (e.g., VPNs, web proxy servers, & cmd-line killswitches)
o IP address checks (e.g., curl icanhazip.com, & whatismyipaddress.com)
o Password privacy (e.g., keepass & mobile device equivalents)
o Data privacy (e.g., truecrypt/veracrypt & mobile device equivalents)
o Domain blocking (e.g., HOSTS, pihole, router iptables, MVPhosts & acrylic DNS)
o DNS leaks & encryption (e.g., dnscrypt, dnsproxy, & dnsleaktest.com)
o Privacy-based OS's (e.g., tails, & copperOS)

o ???

*What other keywords would point to basic privacy/security concepts?*

--
Usenet is a potluck where people from all backgrounds mix & share ideas.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:24:54 -0500, nospam wrote:

>>> * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
>>> likes of Google and Facebook.
>>
>> That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
>> device you have on your network, do it on one instance.
>
> carrying a pihole around everywhere is incredibly impractical.

To nospam's point of "practicality", my goal is to provide this gang of
college-age freshman home on Christmas break a score of "keywords", each of
which is associated with a canonical thread where we, together, help find,
which _everyone_ can benefit from.

In the case of "pihole" for example, I had never even _heard_ of the term
until today, which I had assumed was an "application", but where nospam
seems to intimate it's perhaps a "device".

Notice that I can't be the only one who has never heard of a "pihole"
before, where it would help even us, we ancient wizened old sage men, to
have a canonical link that explains for us what a "pihole" can do in an
actionable way to increase our own privacy on the net.

An example I gave the kids was detection of hidden cameras by apps on their
phone which can see the infrared LEDs, by way of one _actionable_ example.
o How to Detect a Hidden Camera with Your Android Phone
<https://www.maketecheasier.com/detect-hidden-camera-with-android-phone/>

Another _actionable_ example I gave them was a bit of what I'll term for
lack of a keyword, "JPEG privacy", where all the kids knew about JPEG EXIF
thumbnail and GPS information but they were not aware that if they put a
photo from their camera on one site, and another photo on another site,
that the photos can be uniquely traced back to the same camera, unless they
put simple ameliorative steps in place.

I'm not sure what keyword to use, but perhaps keywords are in this source:
o Camera Fingerprint - Matlab implementation
<http://dde.binghamton.edu/download/camera_fingerprint/>

My "actionable" & "keyword" points are that these college-age kids have the
capacity to look things up, but they need to first know _what_ to look up!

For example, these kids had no clue that their social media photos can
easily be fingerprinted, such that their camera can be uniquely identified
if they don't spend about five or ten seconds making it harder to
fingerprint them.
<http://www.ws.binghamton.edu/fridrich/Research/EI7254-18.pdf>
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031320317303801>
<http://dde.binghamton.edu/download/camera_fingerprint/>

The whole point is to come up with about a score of "keywords" (and then,
later, corresponding canonical sites) that explain what a kid needs to know
nowadays to have better privacy/security on their university network.

*Thanks to all the suggestions to date, here is the current keyword list:*
(I would expect it to double in size with additions of things I missed.)

o Photographic privacy (EXIF, GPS, thumbnail, & sensor pattern noise)
o Hidden camera identification (e.g., infrared sensor detection)

o Private keys (e.g., pgp/gnupgp, & SSL Certificates)
o Privacy keyboards (e.g., non-Google keyboards such as keepass2android keyboard)
o Wi-Fi setup (e.g., WPA2/PSK butterfly hash tables, & wifi sense _optout)
o Wardriving amelioration (e.g., hidden broadcast, _nomap, & BSSID cloning)
o Network firewalls (e.g., router iptables firewalls, wireshark, & tcpdump)
o Privacy smtp/imap servers (e.g., mailinator, & protonmail)
o Browser fingerprinting (e.g., panopticlick.eff.org)
o Browser proxies (e.g., Epic, Opera, TBB, Aloha, & Brave web browsers)
o IP address privacy (e.g., VPNs, web proxy servers, & cmd-line killswitches)
o IP address checks (e.g., curl icanhazip.com, & whatismyipaddress.com)
o Password privacy (e.g., keepass & mobile device equivalents)
o Data privacy (e.g., truecrypt/veracrypt & mobile device equivalents)
o Domain blocking (e.g., HOSTS, pihole, router iptables, MVPhosts & acrylic DNS)
o DNS leaks & encryption (e.g., dnscrypt, dnsproxy, & dnsleaktest.com)
o Privacy-based OS's (e.g., tails, & copperOS)
o ???

*What are the score of privacy/security based keywords we need to list?*

--
Usenet is a public potluck which works best when adults share useful tips.

[nospam]

In article <qu5gt4$q9i$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> In the case of "pihole" for example, I had never even _heard_ of the term
> until today, which I had assumed was an "application", but where nospam
> seems to intimate it's perhaps a "device".

there's a lot you've never heard of.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 13:09:09 -0500, nospam wrote:

> there's a lot you've never heard of.

You never seem to miss a chance to prove you own the brain of a small
child, nospam.

Why don't you act like an adult, for once, and do the following:
1. Be purposefully helpful
2. By adding on-topic value

Is that so impossible to ask of you, nospam?

Back to the topic so that we have actionable keyword results:

*What are the score of privacy/security based keywords we need to list?*

--

The problem with trolls like nospam is that they prove to be children.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:50:39 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

> That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
> device you have on your network, do it on one instance.

Having never prior heard of "pihole", I looked it up:
<https://youtu.be/vKWjx1AQYgs?t=49>

This might be the canonical location to point others to for information:
<https://docs.pi-hole.net/guides/vpn/overview/>

Where pihole seems to block what it calls "Internet advertisements":
<https://github.com/pi-hole/pi-hole/#one-step-automated-install>

Upon at least initial inspection, pihole seems to be the same, in effect
anyway, as the MVP Hosts file, so to speak, and Acrylic DNS, and
browser-specific ad blockers, etc.
<https://docs.pi-hole.net/main/prerequesites/#supported-operating-systems>

They advertise it as a black hole for Internet advertisements:
<https://pi-hole.net/>

Where, already, without pihole, I almost never see advertisements in
anything; not in YouTube, not on the Web, not in my mobile apps, not on my
desktop, etc., so I'm not sure (yet) if there is any meaningful utility
over the existing well-known system-wide ad-blocking solutions.

Still... even if it essentially accomplishes the same task as we already
have solved, there's nothing wrong with another way of doing the same
thing, where, given the Linux nature of pihole, it may have an innate
flexibility that the other solutions don't necessarily have today.

Thanks for bringing up a new (to me) keyword, of "pihole" for ad blocking.

--
Usenet allows purposefully helpful adults around the world to share info!

[Ken Hart]

On 12/27/19 1:01 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:24:54 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>>> * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
>>>> likes of Google and Facebook.
>>>
>>> That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
>>> device you have on your network, do it on one instance.
>>
>> carrying a pihole around everywhere is incredibly impractical.
>
> To nospam's point of "practicality", my goal is to provide this gang of
> college-age freshman home on Christmas break a score of "keywords", each of
> which is associated with a canonical thread where we, together, help find,
> which _everyone_ can benefit from.
>
> In the case of "pihole" for example, I had never even _heard_ of the term
> until today, which I had assumed was an "application", but where nospam
> seems to intimate it's perhaps a "device".
>

The term "pihole" ("pi-hole") refers to a software application run on
the Raspberry Pi single board computer. I don't have personal experience
with either the software or the Raspberry Pi.

Here's the wikipedia high-points:

"Pi-hole is a Linux network-level advertisement and Internet tracker
blocking application which acts as a DNS sinkhole (and optionally a DHCP
server), intended for use on a private network. It is designed for use
on embedded devices with network capability, such as the Raspberry Pi,
but it can be used on other machines running Linux and cloud
implementations."

"Pi-hole" is an application, but it's most often run on the Raspberry Pi
because of the device's low cost and relative ease of use.

HTH, HAND

--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

[Mayayana]

"J.O. Aho" <us...@example.net> wrote

| > * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
| > likes of Google and Facebook.
|
| That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
| device you have on your network, do it on one instance.
|

You seem to be assuming a number of things. I'm
posting from the Windows group and am not on a
network. Since many people are in that situation,
it's worth mentioning HOSTS.

[nospam]

In article <qu5riu$4b7$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> | > * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
> | > likes of Google and Facebook.
> |
> | That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
> | device you have on your network, do it on one instance.
> |
>
> You seem to be assuming a number of things. I'm
> posting from the Windows group and am not on a
> network.

actually, you are very much on a network, a rather big network known as
the internet, which is how you can read and post to usenet, among other
things.

> Since many people are in that situation,
> it's worth mentioning HOSTS.

for those truly not on a network, a hosts file isn't going to matter.

[J.O. Aho]

use VPN to connect back home, problem solved.

--

//Aho

[J.O. Aho]

On 27/12/2019 21.48, Arlen Holder wrote:

> Where, already, without pihole, I almost never see advertisements in
> anything; not in YouTube, not on the Web, not in my mobile apps, not on my
> desktop, etc., so I'm not sure (yet) if there is any meaningful utility
> over the existing well-known system-wide ad-blocking solutions.

The youtube advertisement blocking is due of your browser plugin, which
removes a bit more than just blocking some hosts.

I understand that people have difficulties to see the power of pihole,
for they think editing hosts file is simple, but just think of adding
two more computer to your network, some unrooted phones, a tablet or
two, a chromecast, wireless speakers and so on, try to edit the hosts
file on all those devices.

It's far simpler to have one source to update blockings of dns names,
also you can simply setup it with dnsproxy so your do dns-over-https,
set your router to redirect all outgoing requests on port 53 to your
pihole and you will always know that all DNS requests goes to your
pihole and forwarded to the nameserver you trust. You can also enable
DNSSEC, and you get the authentications of the response, so you know the
request hasn't been tampered with without the need of DNSSEC support in
the device OS (which they tend to not have).

You shouldn't just think of it as a ad blocker, even if it blocks a lot,
it even helps with some tracking too and you can add other kinds of
block lists that blocks domain names for other reasons.

[J.O. Aho]

So how's with the hosts file in your microsoft windows mobile? Did you
manage to root it so that you can edit the host file?

Don't forget that most people has a network at home where they have more
than one device connected to, or maybe the microsoft windows license is
so expensive that you can't afford a second device.


--

//Aho

[Mayayana]

"J.O. Aho" <us...@example.net> wrote

| maybe the microsoft windows license is
| so expensive that you can't afford a second device.
|

How did you know? I was going to build a new
computer and put Linux on it, but then I realized it
would actually cost more, once I got the VM set up
with Windows so I could use software. :)

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 00:10:44 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

> The youtube advertisement blocking is due of your browser plugin, which
> removes a bit more than just blocking some hosts.

Hi J.O. Aho,
For _most_ people, that would be how they block ads, but, for me, for
strategic reasons, I never use browser plugins, for a variety of good
reasons, one of which is that I use tons of browsers, because
strategically, I use each browser for one purpose and one purpose only.

Each browser is set up specifically for _one task_ & that one task only!

For YouTube, on a PC or on Android, I use the NewPipe freeware (emulated):
o Update on NewPipe freeware which allows you to
search/view/download/rip/subscribe/etc. to YouTube videos all WITHOUT
seeing a single ad or having a Google Account
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/oP8hpaZs480/vCcMeHfNAAAJ>

Note that NewPipe runs even _faster_ on a desktop than on the mobile
device, even with emulation.
o Have you gotten Genymotion freeware to work on an older AMD CPU
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ix9empN-mxg/07ZmH2AWAQAJ>

On iOS, for YouTube, there are a few apps I use that are similar, if not as
good as Android (as usual), but still far better than YouTube:
o My Tube (stinks, but far better than YouTube in terms of no ads seen)
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mytube-play-and-stream/id1152329407>
o Video Tube (sucks, but still better than YouTube)
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/video-tube-stream-play-watch/id566564331>

I don't have iOS emulation working on the desktop yet though.

> I understand that people have difficulties to see the power of pihole,
> for they think editing hosts file is simple, but just think of adding
> two more computer to your network, some unrooted phones, a tablet or
> two, a chromecast, wireless speakers and so on, try to edit the hosts
> file on all those devices.

Well, Mayayana always tells us Acrylic DNS allows wildcard characters, so
that helps, and copying a HOSTS file isn't difficult (except to unrooted
unjailbroken devices, of course, as you astutely noted).

With that old way in mind, I do like the pihole concept which seems to put
the ad filtering on the router, which is, in reality, where it belongs.

> It's far simpler to have one source to update blockings of dns names,
> also you can simply setup it with dnsproxy so your do dns-over-https,
> set your router to redirect all outgoing requests on port 53 to your
> pihole and you will always know that all DNS requests goes to your
> pihole and forwarded to the nameserver you trust. You can also enable
> DNSSEC, and you get the authentications of the response, so you know the
> request hasn't been tampered with without the need of DNSSEC support in
> the device OS (which they tend to not have).
>
> You shouldn't just think of it as a ad blocker, even if it blocks a lot,
> it even helps with some tracking too and you can add other kinds of
> block lists that blocks domain names for other reasons.

Thanks for explaining that it's more than an "ad blocker" even as the web
site seems to promote it as such; but I can clearly see the advantage of
being able to block whatever you want at a single point of contact.

I think it's a _great_ idea, which I appreciate you bringing up as I had
never even heard of pihole prior (and I'm sure I'm not the only one here).

--
Usenet is a public potluck where everyone strives to share items of value.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 00:13:33 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

> So how's with the hosts file in your microsoft windows mobile? Did you
> manage to root it so that you can edit the host file?

It's 'said' that it can be done (without being rooted); but I failed when I
tried following the instructions provided (using adb & mtp over USB).

Oddly enough, with "adb" freeware, "supposedly" you can copy from the PC to
the Android "root" file system over USB even on an unrooted Android phone;
but I could never get it to work on Nougat in both directions on my
unrooted $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (Nougat).

I could easily see & copy all system files on the unrooted Android device
over USB, but I couldn't write to the Android root file system without
being rooted, despite what it says here:
o what is "android debug bridge"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/K4UNdlVrrvs/yAB71Yp9AgAJ>

o Freeware to access your Android hosts file from Windows without being root
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/LTQtwSGROw8/XePw-iPuAgAJ>

o How to mount the entire mobile device file system on Linux
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/6PQmYWSk34I/9kz19EkZCQAJ>

o What do you use to copy text files from Windows XP to Android over WiFi?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/OkDfuDN9fZU/mFAMnIPGFQAJ>

--
Usenet is a great public sharing potluck of helpful adults worldwide.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:24:50 -0500, nospam wrote:

> a free service doesn't automatically mean they will datamine.

Regarding "free services" where the service provider (often Google) does
datamining ... today I just found _another_ potential keyword topic which
is "*_offline_ voice recording and transcription and keyword search*".

Emphasis on _offline_ for privacy purposes.
o No longer do we need to send our text to Google to translate online!

I just tested this on my new $100 Motorola Moto G7 on Android 9 (Pie):
o Offline speech-to-text recorder/transcription unofficial Google Recorder APK port now available for many Android phones
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/_Amn35T16NA>

*Notice the key here is _offline_ recording & voice to text transcription!*
o *No longer do we send our voice to Google servers for transcription!*

This is apparently brand new functionality, as of today (AFAIK).

I tested it today, where I made these two screenshots showing the process:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DZhJ3sft/recorder01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/76NCH6fb/recorder02.jpg>

The fact it works on Android means it likely works on all desktops
(with emulation, where I've found apps work faster on the desktop than on
the phone due to the hardware on most modern desktops).

Note: I don't have iOS emulation working yet on the desktops; but Android
emulation is easy and freely available with a variety of emulators.
o Does anyone here have freeware Android 8 (Oreo, API 26 & 27) & Android 9 (Pie, API 28) emulation
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_2Zn-NucefU/wq_JWO1xBAAJ>

--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults share items of value to all.

[wasbit]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:271220190648098855%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <h6m208...@mid.individual.net>, J.O. Aho

> <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>> > o Password privacy (keepass & mobile phone equivalents)
>> > o Data privacy (veracrypt & mobile phone equivalents)
>>

>> Always avoid applications that lets you store your data online, as you
>> never know if they will have the key to decrypt your data (stored or in
>> transit)
>
> it's very easy to know if they have the keys or not.
>
>
>

>> > o WiFi (wireshark, tcpdump, _nomap, _optout)
>>
>> Avoid wifi, it's insecure and slow compared to a cable.
>

> no to both and a cable is not an option most of the time.

For you perhaps. If it weren't for other people's devices I could turn off
the wifi.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:271220191224545670%nos...@nospam.invalid...

As is carrying the router/modem which the pi-hole is attached.
AFAIK, it's not meant to be portable.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

"J.O. Aho" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
news:h6nhgt...@mid.individual.net...

That's one of Pi-hole's major benefits, it can protect all devices connected
to the LAN.

--
Regards
wasbit

[nospam]

In article <qu7a26$kmp$1...@dont-email.me>, wasbit

<wasbit...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> > * Use a HOSTS file and block numerous domains from the
> >> > likes of Google and Facebook.
> >>
> >> That's what you have pihole to, no point in editing things on each
> >> device you have on your network, do it on one instance.
> >
> > carrying a pihole around everywhere is incredibly impractical.
>
> As is carrying the router/modem which the pi-hole is attached.
> AFAIK, it's not meant to be portable.

which is why it's not a solution.

[Char Jackson]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 10:15:25 -0000, "wasbit" <wasbit...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

True, but you could VPN back to it from wherever you are.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 02:04:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Oddly enough, with "adb" freeware, "supposedly" you can copy from the PC to
> the Android "root" file system over USB even on an unrooted Android phone;
> but I could never get it to work on Nougat in both directions on my
> unrooted $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (Nougat).

It's the holy grail to "push" the HOSTS file from the desktop to non-rooted
Android or non-jailbroken iOS, where two "possible" methods are:
o adb (which can clearly read the non-rooted root file system)
o libMTP (which can clearly read the non-rooted root file system)

While it's easy to "read" the Android (and partially iOS) root file system
over USB (I've done it myself) without being rooted/jailbroken, it's not as
obvious how to "write" to the root file system of either iOS or Android
(without rooting/jailbreaking the device).

However, folks have "said" it can be done...

For example, here's supposedly a method using adb to replace a HOSTS file:
<https://www.modmy.com/how-modify-hosts-file-your-android-device>
Which was referenced in this year-old stackexchange conversation:
o How to use adb to push a hosts file in a non rooted device
<https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/201363/how-to-use-adb-to-push-a-hosts-file-in-a-non-rooted-device>

Likewise, I've used libMTP to view all the system files on my non-rooted
Android $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (Nougat), which I may try on my $100 Moto G7:
o <http://libmtp.sourceforge.net/>
o <https://github.com/libmtp/libmtp>
o <https://pypi.org/project/PyMTP/>
etc.

For iOS, while I've clearly tailed the actual root system logs from Ubuntu
over USB, I haven't yet tried to write to the non-jailbroken root iOS file
system - but I can clearly see the system logs in real time from Ubuntu.

In summary, once we figure out how to push the HOSTS file over USB to the
non-rooted/non-jailbroken mobile device, that will be my preferred method!

--
Purposefully helpful adults on Usenet can solve almost all technicalities.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 04:56:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> What "pointers" would you provide to someone who asks what they should
> consider learning about to improve their desktop/mobile privacy/security?

In keeping with the adult purposefully helful goal of listing the most
important score of keywords to help users on all five common consumer
platforms improve their privacy...

Here are two additional keywords...
o Restic
o Backblaze

Both of which just now came out of this useful thread today:
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/RqRlKUfxCAAJ>

I checked the public searchable web archives for the keywords:
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux>
<https://alt.os.linux.narkive.com>

Since "Restic" didn't show up, I decided as a public service to you to
repost this post which contains some details about it, so that it will show
up in future searches.

Interestingly, "BackBlaze" only showed up once, in this huge 2015 thread:
o What is the EASIEST way to get a spreadsheet from Linux to iPad & Android
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/4DOllCE6qXs/1yputlRqMO0J>

Here is the repost from today, containing general purpose (i.e., freeware &
portable industry standard non-proprietary solutions for all platforms).

===== begin repost =====
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:15:49 +0100, Cohen wrote:

>>> Gmail doesn't like me [using VPN] so much
>>
>> nobody does.
>
> Private data stored on the Internet? Of course! Backblaze and Restic
> (client side encryption before uploading the data). Encrypting the data
> yourself before uploading is wise.

Hi Cohen,

Thank you Cohen, not only for ignoring nospam's always childish remarks,
but also for your purposefully helpful adult on-topic technical suggestion
of considering "Restic & Backblaze" for backup/storage where I agree with
you that backing up personal data to the cloud and storing private data on
the cloud should be done with careful thought (e.g., multiple levels of
encryption).

In the past, for data that must be stored in a cloud account, I've posted
TrueCrypt/Veracrypt advice for storing data inside of (multiply) encrypted
file containers (e.g., *.tc or *.vc files); and for data that doesn't need
to be on the net, I've posted advice for syncing your passwords over your
local LAN using Keepass (kdbx) databases, and syncing calendars over your
local LAN using ics files - all without _ever_ needing an "account" of any
sort (which all my solutions require to be general purpose solutions).

And I've posted advice for syncing contacts vcard (*.vcf) files across your
local lan, where I consider it rude to store other people's contact
information on the cloud.
o What are some key common databases you often SHARE between your desktop &
mobile devices?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ovnHGVriYsI/0frYPkC3AQAJ>

As most here are aware, I advise general purpose solutions which are always
free, where of the five common consumer platforms, only iOS lacks freeware
for privacy-based standard platform-independent solutions.

For example, every platform other than iOS has freeware for standard *.tc
portable encrypted file containers, where, for example, you can store
private data (e.g., tax records, family photos, identification documents,
etc.) in singly or doubly encrypted file containers which work just fine on
any of the five common consumer platforms.
o Best [iOS] freeware for portable encrypted file containers
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8GGgFKaW-70/WCXEXfVYBAAJ>
o Best [Android] freeware for portable encrypted file containers
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/cas1QJ_j2uI/4Uut0HGrBgAJ>

Likewise, every platform other than iOS has freeware for local calendar ics
file import (as far as anyone has posted to the Apple newsgroups anyway),
so that you don't need to put your private calendar on the Internet.
o Does a free offline non-Internet calendar app exist for iOS that
imports/exports ICS text files?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs/Xzx9DMxnFAAJ>
o Has anyone here ever set up a CalDAV server on Windows for use with
Android CalDAV clients?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/52iSsFUQinE/AflgVrHVEAAJ>

Luckily, all five common consumer platforms have freeware to store
passwords in the standard mutually compatible encrypted kdbx format:
o Which free iOS KeePass kdbx-compatible password database manager do you
recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/4bMe2LnPvPA/5h0THhXzDAAJ>

We're even beginning to document the Android/iOS free encryption keyboards!

o If not the default, what free Android keyboard are you using & why do you
like it?

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/CmZAI0OsXDs/fy-hAKwrBgAJ>

Having documented those privacy-based portable general-purpose freeware
solutions for all five common consumer platforms, I readily admit I was
unaware of Backblaze & Restic, so I appreciate this helpful additional
technical advice which hasn't come up in my queries in the past.

Hence, I thank you on my behalf and for the others on this public potluck
who benefit from the adult technical conversation - for *adding value* to
the technical conversation with your purposefully helpful suggestions.

Upon initial inspection, Backblaze appears to be a payware cloud solution
for something like $6 USD per month, so I won't delve deeper (unless that
first-pass skim assessment is incorrect):
o Backblaze Personal Backup (payware)
<https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-backup.html>

However, Restic appears to be a more general solution in that it's free.

o Restic freeware
<https://restic.net/>
"restic is a program that does backups right"
"restic is a backup program that is fast, efficient and secure.
It supports the three major operating systems (Linux, macOS, Windows)
and a few smaller ones (FreeBSD, OpenBSD)."
o Restic documentation
<https://restic.readthedocs.io/en/latest/>
o Restic source & binaries:
<https://github.com/restic/restic/releases/tag/v0.9.6>

*Restic appears to be a keeper as a general purpose backup solution!*
o The resulting files can basically be stored anywhere you like
(including on the Google Cloud, according to the documentation)
--
Usenet is a wonderful public potluck where adults share topics of value.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:09:50 -0000 (UTC)
Arlen Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> o "Cybe R. Wizard"

Hard of learning, aren't you? Now that you've once again invoked my
name, I suppose it is incumbent upon me to respond to your pathetic cry
for attention because I care for you so very much.

----------
Let's see; I remember back in
Message-ID: <q4h633$rnh$1...@news.mixmin.net>
you said, "I formally now leave this thread."

...to which I responded;

"You've posted to this thread 6 (six) times since.

Liar.

You, "sir," are a being of no honor."
----------

I see no reason to alter that viewpoint.
Then there is always the matter of those:
----------
10,000 tutorials
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>

Arelene Holdout said:
----------
"I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't know
how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day sometimes,
and at least one a week, I have many thousands "
----------

Each time you sidestep or ignore the disclosing of your lies you show
yourself to be the lying duplicitous idiot that you are, Arlene Holdout.

Here, once again, is a pointer to the biggest lie I know of that you've
so far told:
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>
You know the one; it's where you said that you've written TEN THOUSAND
tutorials.

Shut me up, Horlew, merely by showing that searchable list I keep on
suggesting. Hell, just show the list.

The instant that you show a viable list of TEN THOUSAND tutorials that
YOU have written I will shut up about it, I guarantee and promise.

Be a man and 'fess up to being a liar otherwise.

Failing to do either, you are just and only a liar. ...and not much of
a man, either.
----------

You know, even if these replies of mine get no great numbers of
viewings, they are still fun for me and always can serve as life
lessons to those who, for however many oddball reasons, think you to
be a normal man, Of course, any who have come across your postings can
quickly tell what a boner thinking THAT is.


--
Cybe R. Wizard

“I don't care if you're black, white, straight, bisexual, gay, lesbian,
short, tall, fat, skinny, rich or poor. If you're nice to me, I'll be
nice to you. Simple as that.”
Robert Michaels MD - 2007 - Graduation Speaker

[TPayne]

I get it now. Post a question, then try to break your record of seeing
your own comments in the thread that follows. Thirteen so far (as of
1/9/20). Enjoying your silly game Arlen?