Heirless titles

[Henry W]

I have been trying to keep a track of the list of heirless titles, preferably in a format that is easily updatable and sortable for all users - I have been using page in the user namespace of wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Newprogressive/Peerage_titles_with_no_heirs

I am incredibly grateful to the many posts on here over several years that have made this significantly easier, particularly colinp's post "Future of the Baronetage" - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/Peerage-News/xUsaW5PEzO4 and Brooke's post "Titles without Heirs-- Updated List" - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/peerage-news/WNsjuynmp38. In fact, this work wouldn't have been possible without these lists to work from

I have tracked and updated the lists and believe the heirless lists to be complete - I would be grateful to hear of any corrections. Also see my list of titles extinct since 2008. I am beginning the work of compiling a list of titles with only one heir, aged over 50.

I had not previously seen reference to titles such as Baron Sudley or Baron Powerscourt in other lists - titles which are subsidiary to a senior title that have no heirs whilst the senior title has heirs. I would be grateful to hear of any more titles in that situation.

[Jelena JS]

I think this page will be usefull for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_baronetcies

[colinp]

re Earl of Cavan - Whitaker's Almanack 2017 still lists Cavan CE Lambart b 1957 as heir and he has a son Julian b 1993 and there appear to be other heirs as well according to latest Debretts.

[colinp]

Also I think you need to add Baron Harlech b 1986 (succ 2016) unless he now married with son?

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[colinp]

Also Baron Stratheden & Campbell unless there is now a son?

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

Jelena - thank you for that list - a few that extinctions that I have missed - will update soon.

Colin - thanks for those 3 - definitely agree that the 2/3 Baronies should be on the endangered list.  The heirs to the Earl of Cavan you mention - which Earl are they descended from, or is there some special remainder?

Henry

[bx...@yahoo.com]

 Here is some information you might find useful.

Since the latest Debrett's does include the "presumed heir" and his son for the Cavan earldom as Colin noted, I think there is hope for this peerage.

There are 4 viscountcies who each have only one heir 50+.

Montgomery of Alamein (cr. 1946).  Current peer b. 1928, heir b. 1954

Norwich (cr. 1952).  Current peer b. 1929, heir b. 1959

Stuart of Findhorn (cr. 1959).  Current peer b. 1948, heir b. 1957

Tenby (cr. 1957).  Current peer  b. 1927, heir b. 1962.

Henry, I know your list was limited to only 1 heir, 50 yrs old or older, but if you expanded it to include 2 in the line of succession, 50+, there are several peerages which would fit that criteria. These peerages also face extinction in the near future.  These peerages are as follows:

Marquess Camden (cr. 1812)  Current peer b. 1930, those in succession b. 1965 and 1952.  Also includes E Camden, Earl of Brecknock, Viscount Bayham and Baron Camden.

Earl Jellicoe (cr. 1925).  Current peer b. 1950, those in succession b. 1953 and 1966.

Earl of Tankerville (cr. 1714)  Current peer b. 1956, those in succession b. 1958 and 1961.  Also includes Baron Ossulston.

Earl of Westmeath (cr. 1621)  Current peer b. 1928, those in succession b. 1965 and 1966

Viscount Monck (cr. 1801) Current peer b. 1953, those in succession b. 1957 and 1961.  Also includes Baron Monck

Also, I believe Viscount Craigavon's birth year is 1944 and there are no heirs to the Gough baronetcy.

I will try and post more information as I can.

Hope this helps.

Brooke

[colinp]

Hi Henry - Earl of Cavan - don't think there is any special remainder but the presumed heir Cavan Cyril Ernest Lambart and his son are descended from Hon Oliver Lambart MP 2nd son of the 1st Earl as are the others in remainder as listed in Debretts.  Good to have all this sort of information together in one place.

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[colinp]

In fact Whitaker's Almanack 2017 also lists Baron Nathan as an heirless peer but I am sure this is wrong as his son Hon Alasdair b 1999 is alive unless he has suffered an early death which has not been noted by this group

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

Colin - thanks for that update 

- I have removed Earl of Cavan, and updated all the associated wikipedia pages which claimed there were no heirs (I think this may be why the title originally ended up on the list)

- I won't include Baron Nathan - as you note, there is a son of whom we have no news of a death. (I have also double checked that he was born in wedlock and isn't adopted)

Jelena

- Extinct baronetcies now updated to 2008. I won't be going any further back at this stage.

Brooke - thanks for all those details

- I have added the 4 Viscountcies with only one heir, aged over 50.

- Gough baronetcy noted.

- Craigavon DoB amended.

- Regarding peers with 2 heirs, both aged over 50 - I agree that this is a group worth tracking - I may set up another table to do so.

[colinp]

some more extinct baronetcies:-

Reade of Barton (1661) ext 2012

Beaumont of Staughton Grange (1661) ext 2011 (although Debretts says "extinct or dormant")

Frankland-Payne-Gallwey (1812) ext 2008

Wolfson of St Marylebone baronetcy was created 1962

In line with other entries you may want specifically to note against Earl of Egmont that the Perceval of Burton baronetcy (1661) was extinct at same time

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

Thanks for the Wolfson correction.

2 extinct baronetcies now added - embarassingly I think I reported the death of the last Reade baronet to the group last year. I'm not including Beaumont as it is listed as Dormant on the Standing Council of the Baronetage website.

I have added all the various titles for Earl of Egmont that went with it - I had procrastinated over doing so in the past as I wanted to work out exactly where all the later creation of subsidiary titles went.

[Jelena JS]

Any information about his father/grandfather?

[Jelena JS]

 Perhaps it's worth to have one list: Titles with all heirs aged 50 or more

[colinp]

Father - Terence Edward William Lambart (1903 - 1965).  Paternal grandfather - Cyril Henry Edward Lambart

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Jelena JS]

Thank you

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I have started going through all of the peerages and looking at those currently in remainder.  

Henry, if you expand your list as Jelena suggested, to include ALL heirs 50+, there will be quite a few additions.

This  means there are many more titles "in jeopardy" than we realize.

I will try and work on this as quickly as possible, but it is quite long and tedious work.

Please be patient!

Brooke

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 3:26:02 PM UTC-4, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

Thanks Brooke for your efforts.

There may be some hope for a few of these titles - whilst Burke's/Debrett's/et al. try their best to stay in touch with families, there will be distant heirs who lose touch, especially if they live abroad, meaning that there may be younger heirs unknown to us.

[colinp]

Another heirless baronet is Evans of Wightwick (UK 1922)  - his sons are not in succession as they were born before the current baronet's second marriage.  I have amended my lists as I hadn't spotted this.

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[colinp]

I believe Baron Nelson of Stafford has only one heir over 50

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

Thanks Colin

-Baron Nelson of Stafford added

-Evans baronets added with note of illegitimate children

[colinp]

I think that more correctly they should be described as legitimated as their parents subsequently married.

Some baronetcies where there is one heir over 50 (there may be more!):-

Grove of Ferne (1874); Clifford of Flaxbourne (1887); Ohlson of Scarborough (1920); Rhodes of Hollingworth (1919); Musgrave of Hartley Castle (1611); Nugent of Donore (1831); Mackenzie of Glen Muick (1890) - if you assume current baronet is JMG Mackenzie b 1946; Moore of Moore Lodge (1932); Mills of Ebbw Vale (1921); Elphinstone of Sowerby (1816); Macleod of Fuinary (1924); Stewart-Clark of Dundas (1918); Hall of Burton Park (1919); Hall of Grafham (1923); Ainsworth of Ardanaiseig (1917)

Also Austin of Red Hill (1894) may have 1 heir over 50 (current baronet's brother but the death notice for late 6th baronet mentioned a grandson Jack who may be a son of current baronet or brother)

If you wanted add a list of titles where all heirs are over 50 then some baronetcies and peers holding baronetcies would be:-

Tuck of Park Crescent (1910) (2 heirs); Burnett of Selborne House (1913) (2); Baron Monson (3 heirs); Viscount Southwell (2); Boord (1896) (2); Baron Keyes (2 heirs); Roberts (1809) (4); Green-Price (1874) (3); Ackroyd (1956) (3); Johnston (1626) (many but all Americans so it may be that the peerage books editors have lost touch with them); Jenks (1932) (2); Boyle (1904) (2); Scott (1913) (4); Wedgwood (1942) (many but again Americans /Canadians so peerage books may have lost touch); Sharp (1920) (2); Couper (1841) (2)

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[Henry W]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Newprogressive/Peerage_titles_with_no_heirs

Various updates to the page above over the past few days.

- First of all the extinction of Baron Gladwyn is noted.

- Many additions to the titles with only one heir aged 50 or over added - many thanks to Brooke (in another thread) and Colin for their research to populate this. I am not going to note all of the subsidiary titles that might go extinct alongside them, at least until they move to the zero heirs list.

- I hope to start work on a subsequent section of "Other titles under threat" to include titles with many elderly heirs and other cases where the title seems likely to go extinct.

Thanks

Henry

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry, it is thanks to you that our group has once again revisited this very important topic.  I especially appreciate the fact you have posted it to wikipedia.

I will post any additions that I find.

Looking forward to your new list.

Brooke

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 3:26:02 PM UTC-4, Henry W wrote:

[Guru]

Didn't we find heirs to the Clancarty Earldom in Australia?

On 5/14/13 Turanne wrote:

I agree that the sons of Robert Le Poer Trench of Ballarat were illegitimate.  Their mother, Meta nee Breuner, died in Victoria in 1912 and was registered as "Meta Seihl" -- she was the widow of Adolphe Siehl [sic], a market gardener, who died in Victoria in 1857.  I cannot find birth registrations for most of the children, but Frances Mary (1862-1876) was registered at Ballarat East as "Frances Mary Breuner".  I have traced the descendants of Robert Le Poer Trench to within the past decade, but clearly they are not in remainder to the Irish earldom.

This means that the next heir to the current Earl is whichever Australian Le Poer Trench is the heir male of the late Frederick Augustus Le Poer Trench of Lismore (d 1927) -- I think it is Mr Justice Le Poer Trench, but that is assuming that his uncle, FA's elder son John Frederick Le Poer Trench did not himself have a son."

"It should be noted that had the patent allowed for female heirs or been otherwise gender-blind, the 9th Earl would never have inherited in the first place, since his uncle the 6th Earl left three daughters of his own at his death in 1971...." 

Why should the descendants of Frederick Augustus Le Poer Trench be disinherited because of misplaced political correctness?

Richard L

[Henry W]

A number of updates 

- The list gets updated to include titles that we discover have gone extinct, or no longer have any heirs. This happens "as we go along".

- I have now included a section for titles that seem destined for dormancy. This includes Baron Trimlestown (one has to assume that we might never conclusively prove extinction) and 4 baronetcies listed with "UNKNOWN" heirs on the Kershaw list.

- I have removed Maxwell of Monreith baronets as the Kershaw list gives an heir - a kinsman John H Maxwell, b 1945. I am unsure how he is related however.

- I have added Dalrymple-White baronets, as the Kershaw list indicates no heir.

- I have included "dormant" titles in the list of extinctions at the bottom of the page, with an explicit note that they are considered dormant. This adds: Beaumont, Reade and Evans. Still a bit surprised that Evans is being left open to a claim, even with the odd circumstances around his sons.

On Sunday, 30 July 2017 20:26:02 UTC+1, Henry W wrote:

[colinp]

Maxwell of Monreith is interesting.  Debretts has it going into dormancy on the death of the present baronet and refers to descendants, if any, of Alexander Charles Maxwell yr son of Maj Hamilton Maxwell BSc (d 1829) the 3rd son of the 4th Baronet who left issue four sons. Perhaps John H Maxwell has been tracked down as one of those descendants. 

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry, keep up the good work!

Brooke

[Henry W]

I have recently come across Baron O'Hagan, cr 1870. The 4th Baron was born 1945, and his younger brother and hp was born 1950. I am not aware of any other heirs to the title. Please tell me if recent publications provide any update/

[colinp]

O’Hagan - the hp has issue Columba b1985 and Amy b1989. Isn’t Columba male? Saint Columba was definitely a man - but maybe it’s used as a female name as well?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I believe Columba is a male.

Debrett's 2019 lists Columba with a full birthdate  (Feb. 28, 1985).  They seem to only do that with ha/hp.

[Dapifer de Truchsess]

Columba is in fact a male. Its not a very common name, more commonly seen in Northern Ireland and Scotland where St. Columba is more well known for his works. But seeing as he is an O'Hagan, I'm assuming they are of Irish descent originally. 

[colinp]

With regard to the Maxwell of Monreith baronetcy which I posted about above there is more information in Debretts 2019. 

As Brooke has already pointed out, the heir presumptive John Hamilton Maxwell of Lismore, New South Wales b 1945 (m 1969 Jeanette Eveline Badger) has a son Alexander Hamilton Maxwell b 1974 (who m 2004 Anthea Whimsey Parsons and has issue Imogen b 2005 and Lila b 2007) and a daughter Ruth Frances Maxwell b 1972 who has issue (no marriage recorded) Tigerlily b 2004.

The descent as mentioned above and as set out in more detail in Debretts 2019 is from Alexander Charles Maxwell (1816-1894) of Sydney NSW who m 1840 Helena Amelia (Burke's has Amelia Helena) Porch (d 1880)

Their eldest son Alexander Hamilton Keith Maxwell (1842-1907) of Sydney NSW m 1872 Eliza Catherine Taylor of Sugar Brae, Waverley NSW (d 1922)

Their eldest son Henry Francis Maxwell (1873-1938) of Edgecliff Sydney NSW m 1905 Sarah Linda Trickett (d 1958)

Their eldest (?) son was Alexander Hamilton Maxwell (1908-1973) who m 1940 Ida Olive Dinning (d 1998).  Their children are the hp and his sister (see above)

HF Maxwell's next (?) son was Ian James Maxwell (1914-1990) who m 1949 Margaret Brome Weigall.  Their son was James Maxwell of Woollahra NSW b 1950 (cricket commentator under name Jim Maxwell) who m (1) 1987 (div 2012) Madonna Maree Kinnane and (2) 2014 Jennifer Laura Kirkby.  He has issue (by 1st m) Hamish Edward b 1990 and Oliver John b 1994

HF Maxwell's yst (?) son was late Robert Maxwell b? m? ? and had issue Robert D (of Merewether NSW) b?, Linda b?, Jane b? and Kathryn b?  Debretts adds "full details of birth, marriage and issue would also be appreciated"

Then "Descendants, if any, of late John Aylmer Keith Maxwell (b 1888) naturalised in Florida USA 1972, yst son of late Alexander Hamilton Keith Maxwell (ante)"

[malcolm davies]

Colin,
John Maxwell is a long standing lawyer in Lismore.His firm is Parker & Kissane to which he is a consultant.If you go to their website,there is a photo of him.

[malcolm davies]

A further update on the Maxwell baronetcy.
I understand that the hp has the necessary documentation to support his claim when the current baronet dies,so there should be little difficulty in his name(or depending when the current holder dies,the hp's son) in having his name put on the roll.John Maxwell's son lives in Edmonton,Alberta.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I believe the Cuninghame baronets of Corsehill need to be added to the list of baronets without heirs.

There is no heir to the current baronet, b. 1935.

[Henry W]

I have them listed under Montgomery-Cuninghame as this is what the Kershaw list uses.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry W, thanks for the clarification!

[Henry W]

A question for the group:  Viscount BRENTFORD & the two JOYNSON-HICKS baronetcies. The Kershaw list does not list these baronetcies (and hence the Viscountcy) as lacking in heirs, but I am having difficulty locating any young heirs.

As far as I can tell from this group's postings, thepeerage.com and DB 2003, the only heir to the titles is the son of the 4th Viscount, Paul J-H (born 1971). He has been married twice (2000[div 2004] & 2006), with a dau (b 2007) from the second marriage.  According to the Kershaw system, the title should be listed as A 1971, but nothing appears.

Is this an oversight by Mr Kershaw or is he aware of children from the 2nd marriage that we are not?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry W, per DeBrett's 2019, Paul has 2 young sons from his second marriage.

The elder, Tom William (b. Sep 2009) would be his father's heir.  The second son is Sam Harling, b. 2010.

Hope this helps.

[Henry W]

Thanks - Brooke - I have updated Wikipedia which was listing the title with no heirs after Paul J-H, and this caused me to question why I hadn't noticed it before in all my work on the "low on heirs" titles. With two young heirs the titles seem secure for a while yet.

[Henry W]

Tuck baronetcy, cr 1910 UK

According to http://www.thepeerage.com/p35629.htm#i356284 the eldest son of the 3rd Baronet died 2014.  I am unable to find other evidence to corroborate. This leaves just the 3rd Baronet's second son in remainder: Christopher John, born 1954.  The 3rd baronet is resident in Jamaica according to DB 2003, and the heir in Texas, US, but no hint of more heirs anywhere.

[colinp]

Tuck - I suppose one could ask Darryl Lundy if he could disclose the source of his statement that the ha died in 2014?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Re: Tuck baronetcy succession question:

I guess we could also wait to see the next update from Kershaw on the Roll of the Baronetage site.

As of now, the May 2019 edition with Richard as the ha is still up.

Brooke

[Mary-Ann]

Re: Tuck baronetcy succession question

According to the Texas Police News website, a Richard Bruce Tuck died in a fishing mishap in 2014. Not sure if it is the same person, but the dates match up. See link below:

https://texaspolicenews.com/default.aspx?act=Newsletter.aspx&category=News+1-2&newsletterid=47250&menugroup=Home

[colinp]

I don’t think that interesting article actually says the 3rd Baronet has died merely that Christopher will succeed on his father’s death his father then being in his 80’s and then living in England and Italy

[Richard R]

Sorry my mistake. I haven't bothered to read the entire thread here and assumed we were discussion a successor!! Sorry

[Richard R]

Sorry, I deleted my earlier post as it erroneously assumed a succession situation. But here's the link to the Texas story confirming the death of Richard Bruce Tuck in 2014, and includes news that his mother died before the birth of his brother's dau c2008. Christopher John TUCK (b 1954) is the ha - and only other known heir - to the baronetcy.

https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2015/01/picture-postcards-are-a-big-part-of-one-oak-cliff-familys-history/

[Henry W]

Thanks to Mary-Ann and Richard for digging up those articles.

Brooke - I think we dig up quite a few updates for the Kershaw list of heirs who have died un-noticed!

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

Henry,

Do you plan to continue to update https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Newprogressive/Peerage_titles_with_no_heirs page? i find it very useful.

[Henry W]

Yes, my plan is to keep it updated.   Apologies that it has fallen a bit behind!

I have done some updates:

- Extinction of Walsham baronetcy in 2019

- New titles with one heir aged 50+ only:  Sinclair-Lockhart baronetcy, Viscount Addison.

- Title moved from one heir aged+ only to Other titles under threat:  Hall baronets of Grafham (it seems I had overlooked the heir born 1973 previously)

- New titles listed as Other titles under threat: Robinson of London, Sharp of Heckmondwike, St-John Mildmay baronetcies

Please let me know if you think there is something I have missed!

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

Thank you, Henry

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

Peerage titles with no heirs

+ Viscount Tenby

2023 m. vasario 26 d., sekmadienis 14:21:28 UTC+2 Henry W rašė:

[Henry W]

In readiness for 2024 I have done some checking using the Kershaw list, and Colin's Peerage - future extinctions thread.

There are only 3 titles that will qualify to be added to my lists this year I think, and all have the potential for a young heir to exist.

Brisco Bts (1782 GB), Bt born 1944. Heir born 1972. Further heir born 1974.  All resident in New Zealand.  There may be unknown heirs.

Cockburn-Campbell Bts (1821 UK), Bt born 1945. Heir born 1974.  All resident in Australia, there is the possibility of a further heir in Debrett's Online, but unclear marriage date of his parents.

Baron Sanderson of Ayot (1960 UK), Baron born 1969. Heir born 1974. Baron resident in Poland. Heir resident in Zambia.  There are unknown grandchildren of the heir's father, so further heirs may exist.

Any further corrections welcome.

[colinp]

I was going to say Baron Brownlow but I see you already have him on your list

[Henry W]

Hi Colin - it's a nuance of how I first constructed the lists that Baron BROWNLOW appeared before now.

-  A title with no heirs is always listed, no matter how young its incumbent.

-  A title with only one heir aged over 50 is always listed, no matter how young its incumbent.

-  A title with multiple heirs can only be listed if its incumbent and all heirs are over 50.

It's a bit of a contradiction that a title isn't listed if there is an older incumbent and one young heir only.

[Henry W]

Having done some checking with the most recent Kershaw list and Colin's Peerage - future extinctions thread, I think there are the following titles to be added to my page at the beginning of 2025:

Baron COLERAINE - the 3rd Baron was born 1975, with two heirs born 1933, 1963 (the 3rd Baron's uncle and cousin)

Baron MONTAGU OF BEAULIEU - the 4th Baron was born 1961, and one heir born 1975 (the 3th Baron's half brother)

Baron SAVILE  - the 4th Baron was born 1947, with three heirs all born 1975 (the 4th Baron's triplet half brothers)

PRINGLE OF STICHILL AND THAT ILK baronets - the 10th Baronet was born 1941, with heirs born 1972, 1975 and 1962 (the 10th Bt's son, nephew, and kinsman)

NEWSON-SMITH baronets - the 3rd Baronet was born 1947 and one heir born 1975 (the 3rd Bt's son)

(NB  Baron ROBERTSON OF OAKRIDGE is also A 1975 in the lists, but as the 3rd Baron has no heir, it has long been included in my listing)

Please let me know if you think I have missed one (or there are other errors in my list)

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Henry.

I know it doesn't meet the criteria yet, but one major title that bares watching is the dukedom of Leinster (and its associate titles).

The present duke is 76, and his nephew, the heir presumptive (Edward) is 36.  He is married with 2 young daughters, so there are still possibilities.  

 The only others in remainder are a descendant of the 4th Duke (who will be 100 next year) and his son, b. 1953.

Brooke

[Henry W]

Hi Brooke,

I agree that the LEINSTER dukedom bears watching, however, as you say it has a few things in its favour:

- the hp, Edward, is still young and has recently had daus.

- the line of collaterals is probably not updated. The heir born 1953 is one of 4 grandchildren of the late Rupert Augustus FitzGerald (1900 - 1969) listed.  These grandchildren were all born 1951 and 1962.  However, none are shown as married or with any issue.  It is definitely believable that one or even two of these has never married, but all of them?  I doubt it.  This branch appear to be resident in Victoria, Australia, which makes searching tricky as you cannot search very recent BMD records.  You can search probate records, but FitzGerald is a common name, meaning that even though there are matches on both heirs, it is difficult to be sure they are for the "correct person".

NB these probate records are:

Peter Charles FitzGerald [b 1925] - died 02/08/1999

This might be correct (and realistically we should be on the look out for a death record given his age), however, this notice was placed by "Maggy" and his wife is recorded in Debrett's as June.

Stephen Peter FitzGerald [b 1953] - died 22/12/2004.  See this notice, but he would have been only 51.

Victoria death records can be searched 30 years after the event, so we can check the first of these deaths in about 5 years time.

Ultimately I keep the criteria quite tight to avoid having many, many peerages/baronetcies that would need to be investigated and/or noted on the list.

[Henry W]

After doing further checks on the existing list I made the following changes:

- Struck out the Baron HARRIS heir born 1928 (he died 2017 - see Colin's post)

- Struck out a BURNETT baronetcy heir born 1932 (he died 2022 - see Colin's / Richard's posts) and reclassified the baronetcy as having one heir aged 50 or older only.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Henry.

Yes, I absolutely agree with all of the excellent points that  you've made.  We certainly hope that Edward has a son (that would be the easiest result), or that there is a younger male or two among the collaterals.

The only reason I even brought it up was because it is a dukedom, the premier Irish one at that (also premier Irish marquessate and earldom).  Off hand, I think out of all the ordinary dukedoms, Leinster is probably the one in the most jeopardy.

Thanks, Henry, for all of the work that you've done and continue to do, especially in this area.

Brooke

[Henry W]

I view the SUTHERLAND dukedom as the most likely to fail next (I assume "ordinary" discounts YORK, a Royal dukedom).  It is down to 5 heirs, the youngest born 1977 (so it will qualify for my list in 2 years time), and all seem to have well worked up information in Debrett's that don't leave me "hopeful" that there is an unknown heir hiding someplace.  The Marquessate of STAFFORD and several other titles (including the 1620 baronetcy) have further heirs, with the first heir after the Dukedom fails being the Earl of GRANVILLE, which has quite a few young heirs, so a hopeful future.

I do agree that LEINSTER is precarious too, and the loss of two truly ancient peerages (the KILDARE earldom [1316] and OFFALY barony [1193]) along with it is probably the most regrettable part of that probable loss.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Henry, I had forgotten about the Sutherland dukedom.  The Marquess and his brother certainly have tried producing  a male heir, but have ended up with 7 daughters between them.

Although there are 5 Sutherland heirs, it does seem more likely that there will be a Leinster heir from Edward than a Sutherland heir from any of those in remainder.

Brooke