Clem PreSale.

[David Banzer]

Someone convince me that the large Clem will fit me. I ride a 65cm Redwood, the large Clem is a 59cm. After debating about what new bike I'd like, I want something based around an Albatross bar. Seems like the Clem is the thing, if it will be big enough. I'll give Riv a call tomorrow, but just churning ideas around this evening.
Are there specs posted anywhere? Or is it more of a just-trust-Riv sorta thing?
David
Chicago

[Bill Lindsay]

It will definitely fit.  $700 is incredible.  It's going to be a great bike.  It is more of a trust Riv sort of thing.  Talk to Keven about it, but I'm certain it will fit you.  

[Tom Harrop]

Wow, that mixte is amazing. My better half has been looking for a step through for ages but one of her requirements was a swoopy top tube, which ruled out the Betty. This one is a Riv, fits fat tyres and is $700 at the moment. It's almost too good to be true!

Just bummed there is nothing for the 100+ PBHers...

[Garth]

Define "fit" .... lol !    As each has their own distinct idea of it , and rightly so .    I ride a 60cm. Bombadil and find it just barely tall enough in the front end and long enough for me(w/130mm stem) , and I'm "only" 6'2" with average proportions. 

Specs have been absent for the Clem , as if they didn't matter or something .... I don't know their thought process . Frame size, the height of the seat tube, is not all that important to me.  How long the TT is and how tall the front end to the top of the headset, IS !  So just telling us a 59 will fit up to 6'4" is ironically, akin to the same sales pitch many bike shops have been using for decades.  One size just doesn't fit all preferences(nor can it !), and that is not a knock at anyone , it's just the truth of it ;-) .

[Deacon Patrick]

There are so many things that are attractive about this, especially the Clementine. I've long wanted to get the rest of my family into Rivendells. I am hoping the increased ride experience will help my wife want to ride more. We are looking at getting five frames and building them up as the lassies are bigger (two of four already are, so that's three builds right off the bat), and they each have a bike that will last them well into adulthood. Plus they will help me build theirs up, so they will know how to work on them and fix them them themselves if/when that is needed.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Matthew J]

> One size just doesn't fit all preferences(nor can it !), and that is not a knock at anyone , it's just the truth of it ;-) . 

Yes.  But Rivendell has been using PBH as its fit guide since its inception.  Given the bike right now anyway is meant to be a small run don't see a problem with Riv assuming it will go to people who accept Riv's fit philosophy.

[Mark Etze]

Let us know what Rivendell says. I would be interested in a Clem too, but I have my doubts that it will fit me. I am 6'5" and already out of their recommended range. It seems to me they need to add at  least 2 more sizes, but that would probably push the cost up.

[Liesl]

Tom Harrop wrote:

Wow, that mixte is amazing...This one is a Riv, fits fat tyres and is $700 at the moment. It's almost too good to be true!

I can't believe it; I, too, love the Clementine mixte! I think this is the first mixte frame that I've really liked.  Perhaps it's that little frame with the big fatty tires that makes it look so dang good. Like a kid's bike for an adult. It has the makings of a winter beast! And I just promised my partner no more big bike purchases for the year.  But $700 for the frame—yes, I agree; "it's almost too good to be true!"

"Danger danger Will Robinson!"

[iamkeith]

Garth,  I'm just a bit different size than you and have been paying pretty close attention to this bike.   Based on how you describe yourself, and what I've figured out about how the sizing >just< misses the mark for me, I actually the 59 will be almost perfect for you.   Made to measure, almost!  

While they aren't as easy to find, I think there have been some pretty good clues as to the geometry specifics.  For instance, I think we know that the chainstay length matches the seat tube height (was stated somewhere, if I recall).  We know that the bottom bracket drop will be about 78mm (extrapolating from 34.75 standover height on 60mm tires, compared to numbers for Sam Hillbourne, with a similarly sloped top tube, on 45mm tires.)   Don't know the top tube length, but pretty sure it's longer than your  bombadil - so therefore higher at the front.  And it shouldn't matter as much anyway, if you used the Bosco bars that it was designed for.   If you're 6'-2" and can ride a 60 bombadil, the clearance shouldn't be a problem for you on the Clem, even with the biggest 60mm tires.   That's where it falls apart for me.  I'm 6'-1 1/2" but with a shorter inseam, and the published numbers tell me that I'll need shoes with some pretty tall soles if I want any clearance at all.    

 
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:04:10 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

I

[Kieran J]

Same here. I'd totally love one of these as a city banger.

If RBW could add a "64" size - perhaps equatable to the 64 Hillborne dimensionally - I'd be all over it. I'm sure that would mean a few additional top tubes though.

The "59" is likely too small for me, even though I am 6'4" and technically within the fit range.

KJ

[David Banzer]

Put in my order! I called and they didn't seem concerned at all that it would be too small, just would have more seatpost showing. I was also re-assured that the top tube length would be plenty long.
Now to convince my gf that she needs a Clementine.
David
Chicago

[Bill Lindsay]

Great news.  Congratulations, and have fun anticipating.  

[iamkeith]

Awesome.  I committed too.  Will be interesting to compare notes, since we're both looking at the same size frame but with slight reservations from the opposite ends of the height/sizing spectrum.

Now Patrick has me thinking about getting another!   I just realized that  a 'small' would fit my youngest daughter right now, my son in a few years and, after that, they could hand it down (up?) to my wife.  Seems like a perfect plan....  just hadn't planned to spend money on bikes this month!

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 10:29:44 AM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote:

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

If it just can't be made to fit, I betcha' that other than the hassle of it, you could be pretty safe in re-selling it and not losing any money in the process.

And re. that Clementine... wow, what a stunner! That is just one good looking bike! If they can keep the prices down over time, that could go on to dominate the mixte/step-through marketplace. Maybe even among mainstream retailers!

[Montclair BobbyB]

All I can say is some lucky lady will one day be riding an orange 59er ... Haven't yet decided who that will be, but she'll need to be tall enough, and worthy enough... 

Yes sir... Lady Clementine... lucky indeed... 

[Kurt Manley]

I'm just shy of 6'5" and I rode that gold one and it fit good

[Kieran J]

Well dang, in that case! Was the seatpost jacked way up?

Hoping to get some better data on the effective TT length but this has piqued my interest.

KJ

[Deacon Patrick]

I am excited the whole family will eventually be riding Rivendells, yet with five Clementines coming for me to build (and though I've done all the individual jobs, I've not done a whole build), I'm wondering what I got my self into. Perhaps the same lime pool as poor Clementine! Sardonic grin. It's a good problem to have though. Grin.

With abadnon,

Patrick

[WETH]

Five!? Outstanding! Is that a bushel or a peck? (Cheeky grin)

[drew beckmeyer]

Does this put you at 7, Deacon? Who is the current keeper of the largest fleet?

[Bill Lindsay]

My wife has a 52cm Yves Gomez
I have a 58cm Hilsen
56cm Bomba
56cm Hillborne
58cm Atlantis

So 5 Rivendells currently present in my garage

[Deacon Patrick]

Don't count our family seven yet. They aren't even made yet. Grin. Then, I still have to build them. And then two will be in "foal" status in the stable, awaiting the maturation of their future rider. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Tony DeFilippo]

With 5 of the same type bike coming at the same time you will get to indulge just about every 'option' with setup you care to deal with!  :)  Should be alot of fun.  Maybe you can match build's to personalities... or you can demo different handlebars on each build, or you could equip each to be somehow complementary towards family bikepacking.  I have to admit that when I muse through bike builds I usually am thinking of them one or two at a time.  5 at once, even if 2 are going to be considered later is a whole nother ballgame!  Congrats.  Riv should throw in a little something extra for a 'Holiday 5 Pack' order!  

I think I remember reading somewhere that fielding a truly more affordable Riv was one of Grant's goals for himself and the company.  I always figured that the Sam/San Marcos was the best they were going to do.  I think its great that they have gone even further and put out a bike like the Clem.  Especially with all the positive feedback here it seems like it's going to be a success.  

I love the BLUG description for this bike... completely focused at the audience here on the list, current and future Riv owners that know the philosophy or already love the bikes. 60mm tire clearance in all sizes is a great thing to design around.  How does everyone take the last bit about the decals, looks to me like you have the option to get the frame w/ headbadge only, no decal or you can have the Clem/Clementine decal plus a customized name/whatever decal?  Am I reading that right?

All that said I'm going to be on the sidelines for this one...  a Clem would be a great starting place for my wife but that she's already got a gorgeous motobecane mixte and bstone mtb.  I can't wait to see these things get delivered and built up though!

[Deacon Patrick]

After talking with Riv, and understanding that the "envelope" is pushable on the upper end more than the lower end (a bigger person can ride a smaller frame) because it's got the high head tube, we're going with 3 mediums and two smalls. That puts the sizing spot on for our current oldest two in a small, the medium for my wife, and then we'll see who gets what when full growth is achieved. Grin.

Two of the folks for whom I'm building them "immediately" have old Trek MTB's and a lot of those parts will transfer initially and we'll replace them as needed (including wheels to the small frames! That will help the budget!). The builds will likely all be very similar: rear racks, wide doubles (triples initially) without FD,  Albatross bars (that's what we have on their bikes now), and an agressivish all-rounder tire like the Smart Sams. Individuality will come out with baggage and bar tape initially. But you are right, Tony, over time their individual preferences will be interesting to watch.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Tony DeFilippo]

Patrick are you going all Clementine's or a mix?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I had been trying to “simplify my files” with the sale of my Bleriot f/f to listmember Thomas McCause and Blue Bomba f/f to listmember Tony DeFillippo, but the Clementine was too good to pass up, so now I’m (at least temporarily) heading in the wrong direction.  “Wrong”, of course, being in the eye of the beholder.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ****************************************************

This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.

Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request.
****************************************************
==============================================================================

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Counting the Clementine (which, as Deacon Patrick points out, isn’t even built yet, and which isn’t destined for me, anyway), and with the departure of the Bleriot and Blue Bomba, I have seven:  a 56cm Bombadil, a 61cm Atlantis, a 61cm Homer, a 60cm Quickbeam, and my Mystery Bike built, and a 59cm (I think) Wilbury f/f.    

 

And I sorely wish the weather would change so I could get out on them!

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lindsay
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:55 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Clem PreSale.

 

My wife has a 52cm Yves Gomez

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Deacon Patrick]

All Clementines. My wife and daughters wear skirts or dresses almost exclusively, and that's what they bike in. My wife has long been itching for a mixte, and that's what our two oldest currently ride. My wife surprised me and went with orange. "I thought they were names after the small 'Cutie' oranges at Christmas, which are called 'Clementines,' so orange just seemed right." Cool! So we'll have an orange bike now and since it is faster and her's that gives me a great handicap. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[iamkeith]

How does everyone take the last bit about the decals, looks to me like you have the option to get the frame w/ headbadge only, no decal or you can have the Clem/Clementine decal plus a customized name/whatever decal?  Am I reading that right?

I think you get the "standard" Clem Smith Jr. or Clementine decals, appropriate to the model, already installed...  OR...   a you get set of generic letters that you can use to name the bike whatever you want.   Not both.   I think it is intended to be a theft-deterrent (or, more accurately, recovery aid) device - the idea being that yours would be the only bike of it's kind, and easy to identify.   (When they first talked about it, I misunderstood that they were encouraging buyers to make them ugly, so that they'd be less likely to be stolen in the first place.)

I'm curious now though, after reading this, if the "headbadge" will just be a sticker or an actual metal badge.   The manhole cover thing sure would look great in pewter

 

All that said I'm going to be on the sidelines for this one...  a Clem would be a great starting place for my wife but that she's already got a gorgeous motobecane mixte and bstone mtb.  I can't wait to see these things get delivered and built up though!

Some unsolicited advice from someone who's started to figure this out:   It's a lot easier to occasionally bring home additional, unnecessary bikes for yourself, if you occasionally buy additional, unnecessary bikes for your wife.  It is ESPECIALLY easy to rationalize your purchases when you can explain to them, first hand through their own examples, what makes a good bike - one that really fits well and is a joy to ride - such a "bargain."   Buying my wife a Rivendell, even though she wasn't asking for it, was one of the best things I've ever done.   She now rides 10 times more than she used to, she not only likes to go riding with me but actually initiates it, and she has willingly gone on a week long tour with me.... and wants to do more.   Best of all, with the Clem/Clementine, is that you can do this relatively inexpensively!!!  

[DS]

You guys have too many Rivendells. I have some catching up to do. Who wants to trade a Rodeo for my Gunnar? I'll let you throw in an Atlantis and AHH in too if you're lucky. That'll put me up to 5. :)

On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 6:45:10 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:

Counting the Clementine (which, as Deacon Patrick points out, isn’t even built yet, and which isn’t destined for me, anyway), and with the departure of the Bleriot and Blue Bomba, I have seven:  a 56cm Bombadil, a 61cm Atlantis, a 61cm Homer, a 60cm Quickbeam, and my Mystery Bike built, and a 59cm (I think) Wilbury f/f.    

 

And I sorely wish the weather would change so I could get out on them!

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lindsay
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:55 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Clem PreSale.

 

My wife has a 52cm Yves Gomez
I have a 58cm Hilsen
56cm Bomba
56cm Hillborne
58cm Atlantis

So 5 Rivendells currently present in my garage

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 8:06:38 PM UTC-8, drew beckmeyer wrote:

Does this put you at 7, Deacon?  Who is the current keeper of the largest fleet?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-own...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Tony DeFilippo]

I just showed her the bike online and she's a fan...

[Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado]

Patrick,

If I can help with your assemblies or have questions let me know !

Jon

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Jon!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Tony DeFilippo]

PSA, the sizing note from the BLUG applies to the Clem not the Clementine... I had a conversation w/ Riv just now about the right size for my 5' 5" wife and was directed to the 52cm, 650B Clementine.  In a related note, this list is a bad influence and I'm officially in the presale... :)

It'll replace a 1970's Motobecane Mirage mixte and  Bstone MB-3 she has currently. It's going to be in Orange of course and just about all the parts I need are on one of the two predecessor frames.  My desire for one wheel size in the garage is starting to shape up... Bomba, Saluki, Clementine.

[Bill Lindsay]

Dy-no-mite!  Congrats, Tony!

[Tom Harrop]

Oops, I'm in too. Household Riv # 4 will be a 52 cm Clementine, but that will be two each so it's totally OK. And it could be worse, if there was a 65 cm Clementine it would be 5 Rivs...

[Norman R]

I pre ordered the 52 cm Clementine in black--for myself.  I am seeing it as the teen-aged gender confused son of my Sam.

[Deacon Patrick]

Great point, Tony! Thanks for bringing it up, as it prompted a call to Kevin. The sizing chart is different in that the range of each Clementine is greater. So, for a growing kid with cheapskate parents, as long as the PBH allows room for the seat even if slammed, that's the way to go. He is going to work with me in the next week or two once they have their prototypes back and built to spec them out and send us photos etc based on PBH.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Anne Paulson]

The Clem is the bike my son needs, now that I know it'll fit 6'4".
Trouble is, he needs it now, not a year from now.

What is the price supposed to be for a built-up Clem, again?

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It will definitely fit. $700 is incredible. It's going to be a great bike.
> It is more of a trust Riv sort of thing. Talk to Keven about it, but I'm
> certain it will fit you.

>
> On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 4:56:49 PM UTC-8, David Banzer wrote:
>>
>> Someone convince me that the large Clem will fit me. I ride a 65cm
>> Redwood, the large Clem is a 59cm. After debating about what new bike I'd
>> like, I want something based around an Albatross bar. Seems like the Clem is
>> the thing, if it will be big enough. I'll give Riv a call tomorrow, but just
>> churning ideas around this evening.
>> Are there specs posted anywhere? Or is it more of a just-trust-Riv sorta
>> thing?
>> David
>> Chicago
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--

-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Bill Lindsay]

$850 or so for the frameset, $1400 or so not counting the saddle complete

[Deacon Patrick]

Presumably with the pre-sale that $1400 drops to 1,250 not counting the saddle.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

The metal headbadges on all the Rivs I've owned were stickied on, not riveted.

[iamkeith]

That makes sense.  I went back and looked at the prototypes, and they were indeed pewter.   Interesting that they're willing to sell "extras" for $15.  I think that's what confused me.

[iamkeith]

On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-7, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

PSA, the sizing note from the BLUG applies to the Clem not the Clementine... I had a conversation w/ Riv just now about the right size for my 5' 5" wife and was directed to the 52cm, 650B Clementine.  In a related note, this list is a bad influence and I'm officially in the presale... :)

It'll replace a 1970's Motobecane Mirage mixte and  Bstone MB-3 she has currently. It's going to be in Orange of course and just about all the parts I need are on one of the two predecessor frames.  My desire for one wheel size in the garage is starting to shape up... Bomba, Saluki, Clementine.

Well..  I didn't mean to be so persuasive.  I mostly meant to give you a little good-natured ribbing about buying THREE -  count 'em - 650b, rough-stuff all-rounders (Saluki, dSogn, Bombadil) all for yourself, in a single year, while your wife is still riding antiques.... and while saying you were reluctant to buy her anything "redundant!"  I'd say "sorry," if I thought it was a mistake, but I think you'll be glad.   Congratulations, and good call!  

[Tony DeFilippo]

It sounds kind of bad when you say it... counting other folks bike transactions shouldn't be allowed!  :)  

To be fair the Saluki has been out of commission since August, the rSOGN was bought and sold w/in a month and Tom's blue Bombadil was just too good a deal to pass up! Maybe the rest of 2015 will be a net 0 bike acquisition year...  Probably a good idea once the Saluki is back on the road.  That duo should handle anything I plan to throw at it.

My wife is excited about the new bike, thanks for the nudge! 

Tony

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/zv316RyimKk/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Wayne Naha]

The Clem sounds like a great bike for me, just the right level of stoutness to the frame and those nice longer chainstays. I had been considering a Sam, but Clem has turned my head. Yet I can't contemplate hanging plastic pedals off it, and I would really like to have a generator hub, too. But it seems like the idea that the Clem is some kind of 'beater' bike because it is unlovely is being promoted. But this would the most money I have ever spent on a bike! My 'beater' says 'Huffy' on it. I want to be proud of this bike, even if it is not the prettiest. Is it silly to put Velocity Atlas rims, a Schmidt SON hub, and aBrooks saddle on the Clem? Or should I save a little longer for the Sam?
Also, does anyone know headtube and seat tube angles for the Clem?

[Tony DeFilippo]

The Clementine I'm building up for my wife will not be a 'beater'.  It'll be her primary town bike and off road bike as required.  I expect to build it out with existing parts including dyno lighting, some paul components, brooks saddle, nitto stuff... typical riv inspired build.  If the bike handles as expected I think it'll be her favorite, most used bike.  So if you go higher end on your build you definitely won't be the only one.

 

Tony

 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Wayne Naha <w.r....@gmail.com> wrote:

The Clem sounds like a great bike for me, just the right level of stoutness to the frame and those nice longer chainstays.  I had been considering a Sam, but Clem has turned my head.  Yet I can't contemplate hanging plastic pedals off it, and I would really like to have a generator hub, too.  But it seems like the idea that the Clem is some kind of 'beater' bike because it is unlovely is being promoted.  But this would the most money I have ever spent on a bike!  My 'beater' says 'Huffy' on it.  I want to be proud of this bike, even if it is not the prettiest.  Is it silly to put Velocity Atlas rims, a Schmidt SON hub, and aBrooks saddle on the Clem?  Or should I save a little longer for the Sam?
Also, does anyone know headtube and seat tube angles for the Clem?

[Joe Bernard]

It's a nice frame purchased for more than many complete bicycles. I understand Riv's marketing direction for it, but most people are going to hang nice not-the-cheapest parts on there. If I get one it'll get the same Brooks saddle as all my other bikes 'cause that's all I can ride.

[Surlyprof]

I bought my Hillborne after seeing the first Clems but I did so because it was the right compliment to an MTB I already had.  It was a replacement for a Bianchi that maxed out at 25c tires.  The Hillborne is a pretty different bike than the Clem.  From initial reports, it sounds like the Clem is closer to a discount Atlantis or Hunq based on stoutness and a discount Appaloosa based on stability from longer stays.  The Hillborne is a bit tighter and less stout.  Closer to a Hilson than the Atlantis or Hunq.  That said, I just carried 4 bottles of wine in the front basket and two bottles in the saddlebag yesterday and, aside from a little shimmy, it was definitely up for the task.  I'd feel comfortable camping or touring with it (seems like many people do).  I've also found that everything I ride now that is not my Hillborne feels twitchy and overly aggressive.  The Sam H is incredibly smooth and handles beautifully but I've come to expect that from every Rivendell I ride.  If you want to ride fatter tires than a 45 (40 with fenders), get the Clem... and enjoy whatever level of components you want to put on it.  Take a look at the Clem Drew Beckmeyer gave to his girlfriend in the other post.  He described it as stout like a Hunq and it looks fantastic with the Brooks b67 and the Schwalbe Big Ben 50's (50+?) he has on it.  A machine to be proud of for sure (as is the Hillborne if you decide to go that way).

If you are close enough to Riv to try both, that would be the thing to do.  If not, buy the one that supports what you want to do with a bike.  They said the Clem rides like a Riv on the Blug and I believe them.  As for pedals, I love both my thin gripsters and my grip kings.  If I had a Clem, it would have one of those pedals on it (maybe even one of each!... That sounds very "Clem")

John

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:

[dougP]

When I read Rivendell's description of equipping the Clem, what I hear is "....don't be afraid to go economical parts on this bike.  It can get away with cheap stuff as well as bling."  Sounds like another dimension in versatility.  This bike won't look out of place with a $20 aluminum rack but you can still put a Nitto on if that's your choice.  I don't think they're pushing cheap parts, just suggesting that as one option.  Heck, you could build one up out of crap laying around the garage & then upgrade over time, if you didn't have the cash or want to go lux to start.

dougP

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

I think one thing Riv is trying to promote with the Clem idea - the site has had a special Clem Parts section for a while now - is the concept of "nice parts are nice, but good enough parts have a funky kind of style that is unique to them". If you're old enough to have participated in the Bike Boom, you're old enough to remember getting your first 10-speed and having no idea what the parts were. You put air in the tires and sat on the saddle and shifted the shifters and pulled on the brake levers. What you had was a bike, and you rode it.

I see the Clem/Clementine with a Pletscher "mouse trap" rack and Altus derailer as a throwback to this idea of "just a bike" for "just riding". It also confronts a rather annoying reputation Riv has for selling expensive stuff..a rep I consider ridiculous, but I've heard it enough times to know Grant has, too. Now you can get a lower cost Riv frame with lower-cost/funky parts and go for a slightly different vibe than what we normally associate with Rivbikes. Or go completely insane and Ebay one out with old Campy OR mtb parts. I like that idea! ;)

[Wayne Naha]

Thanks, everyone for all your thoughts.  The reason I was vacillating between the Clem and the Sam is primarily economic, being that they are Riv's lowest cost models.  I could be very happy on either bicycle.  Right now, I am riding a 1976 vintage Raleigh Gran Sport.  Its a fine bike.  It is old school lugged steel, but I tend to baby it because of its age, and a perceived need to keep it on smooth pavement.  It has 27" wheels, and those don't come in a lot of widths anymore.  I am wanting something more versatile, and new.  The thought of a discount Atlantis or Hunq sounds great.  I love the look of the Appaloosa, with the diagatube, the curvy stays, and the long rear triangle.  I would ride it mostly about town, doing errands, and the occasional foray into the trails around here.   I really don't have any real plans for s24o's, but when the opportunity comes up, it will be great to have the bike that will handle it.  I think I've talked myself into a Clem, but I'm open to suggestion.  I have been curious about the 650B wheel size, just to try it and see.  The medium Clem (my size) has those, a bonus.  But what about that 29.8 mm seatpost?  Who makes that size?

[Joe Broach]

Hi Wayne,

I'd hate to talk you out of a new Riv, but you're selling that Raleigh short. IIRC, the Gran Sport had nice, butted tubing and a lovely fork, all Reynolds 531. That's as good or better than anything you'd get in a new production bike (most similar to something like a Hilsen or Rambouillet or Roadeo in the Riv line-up, in terms of liveliness). The workmanship and details like braze-ons will be better on a new Riv-spec'd bike, but the Raleigh shouldn't be holding you back at this point. 

How does your current bike fit? If fit is good (or could be with a bar/stem change), I'd spring for a 700c wheelset, maybe with a dynamo hub if you think you might want to try some night riding). Those bikes usually have centerpull brakes and lots of room for fatter tires (700x35 at least, and get good tires). Have a blast on it for a year or more, and then decide what you'd want different in a second bike or replacement.

You say you want something more versatile and new. I say that Gran Sport is a super-versatile bike and nothing like obsolete. 

Best,

joe broach

pdx or

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Jason Hartman]

What Joe said, and Loose Screws now has nice 27" tires:

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Tire/Tube&sc=Tire&tc=Touring%20Tire&item_id=SWT-27138TW&id=388484816578

I would try a set of those first, before setting your sights on a whole new bike. 

Jay Hartman

[Tom Harrop]

I guess you can get shims that will work from 27.2 mm to 29.8 mm, and a quick google turns up Kalloy and Thomson posts in 29.8 mm. I would still be interested to know why it's that size since it is not "natively compatible" with Nitto stuff.

[Joe Bernard]

While I agree with a the last couple posters that you may be taking it a little too easy on your Raleigh, you sound like a fellow who's ready for a shiny new Riv..it's just a matter of which one. The Clem is nice, and certainly affordable, but those 52 and 53 Appaloosas are raging deals and available now. If you love the look and have the cash, I wouldn't wait another day.

Joe "just buy and ride" Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[Joe Bernard]

There's also this 51cm Sam which is discounted for a blemish.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-127.htm

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 12:27:31 PM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:

[Mike Shaljian]

As someone who's ridden a Sam for the past 3+ years and who's recently felt the uncontrollable urge to upgrade to a fatter-tired bike, I would say wait for the Clem. I have slowly crept up in tire size over the years, going from 28mm gatorskins back in the mid-2000's, to 33mm Supremes on my Quickbeam, to the 38mm Barlow Pass on my Hillborne now. I now think of 38's as "skinnies" and the lower limit of what I would ride. Unfortunately, this about where the Sam maxes out (in combination with the lack of supple road tires in the 43-45mm range that it could handle).

When I heard that the Clem will definitively be able to take a 60mm tire with fender, I was glad that Rivendell stepped it up to the next level of fat function. I am about to get a Jones Plus with 60mm Super Motos to start and I am quite sure that it will be significantly faster and funner than my Hillborne on all surfaces except smooth pavement, thanks to the 1.5X tires. I was about to say my love with Rivendell was coming to an end, due to the limitations of the Sam and the change in my preferences, but this is a cool jump to see.

All that being said, I think the Sam is a great bike if you just want a reliable, pretty and fun road commuter/light tourer, but the bike is rather limited (for the cost) from my perspective.

[Philip Williamson]

Please share pictures of the Jones when it arrives. I have 37mm tires on the Quickbeam, and a 700c Big Apple road bike. The one Jones I rode for about 10 minutes off-road was pretty phenomenal.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[drew beckmeyer]

i think that the clem and sam are different enough in function/ride and similar enough in price that you should go with the one that suits your needs the most. if you dont think youll want to use it to go fast on roads, but want something sturdy with big comfortable tires, then clem all the way. budget hunqapillar gives a pretty good idea for how the clem feels, but one of less aggressively set up hunqapillars. ive never been on an appaloosa, but i would imagine that there are comparisons there as well.  

[Garth]

The seatpost selection is very limited it seems , but of course it does come with one .  Likely a basic Kalloy Laprade or one of low end UNO models or similar generic post from Taiwan.

Thomson ?  I checked all I could find and it seems the only one is a black zero setback.  Not available in silver or setback , albeit their setback is a mere 15mm .

The shim sounds alright, but looks goofy the way it cannot set flush with the seat lug , from the photo . 

All in all, if the stock post is not acceptable the shim is your only choice . That has it's own issue though, the seam in the shim, does it seal when it's in the frame ?  If not, for those who ride in the rain and/or sweat alot, it will let water in ! 

[Mike Shaljian]

I will definitely post pictures and initial impressions compared to my Riv.

- Mike

[Montclair BobbyB]

Seriously... I've been Jonesin' for a Jones for a long time... Do share pics...

[Bill]

+1 on the Jones Plus.

What's the deal with all the "go fast" chatter? Slow down and enjoy the ride.

[Bill]

[Mike Shaljian]

I suppose by "fast" I mean efficient; efficient in the sense of not being ground down and weary from riding harsh washboard for miles with tires that aren't really up to the task. I imagine riding rough roads will be far more enjoyable with huge tires run at low pressures, meaning I hope the bike will be fast and fun as a function of it being comfortable. Will definitely post a ride report!

[Mike Shaljian]

Here's a sneak peek of the Jones, w/ one 60mm Super Moto on a 45mm rim (yay, chubby bikes!): http://imgur.com/Iih7riE

[Edwin W]

Only on this group would a Sam be considered for someone who wants to ride fast on roads!

Riding not so fast on roads and elsewhere with my Sam,

Edwin