Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

[Anne Paulson]

I'm still thinking about setting up a dedicated mountain bike for
offroad touring. As I read journals and articles online, I see that
the various frame bags made by Revelate and others are becoming
popular. Like this one:

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Seat-Bags/Viscacha

And I don't get it. Why would a bag like that, which is small and
which has a small opening so it's harder to load, be better than a
transverse saddlebag such as Carradice and Riv sell?

I was looking at different bikes at my LBS today, and oh, look at
that, suddenly mountain bike manufacturers like Salsa are selling
rigid bikes as mountain bikes. Hmm.

--
-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Christopher Chen]

It's funny what counts as a "big" bag these days.

Chris "10 lbs of apples" Chen

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[Deacon Patrick]

Anne, those bags are for the equivalent of fast packing or ultralight back packing. On the Colorado Trail we saw a few folks with this type of set up -- they were racing from Durango to Denver the full 500 miles. Not my dram of whiskey. I like to be warm if it's cold, dry if it's wet, prepared if life's unpredictable, and enjoy the ride while I meander my merry way up and down the trail. Grin. I'm no heavy weight, with my gear and food for a week coming in at 35-40 pounds, but I'm nowhere near the 15 pounds they're doing.

With abandon,

Patrick  

[Joe Broach]

Hi Anne,

I wouldn't call the Viscacha small. I think it's about the same as a Nelson Longflap main compartment. The biggest "advantage" is probably that the Viscacha doesn't need a rack for support. Other potential advantages are: lighter (by half, not counting the eliminated rack), doesn't stick out, load is compressed, doesn't require saddlebag loops. All things that probably matter a lot more for off-road racing than touring. Let us know what you come up with!

Best,

joe broach

portland, or

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Anne Paulson <anne.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

[hsmitham]

That's a good question. Beyond the small opening I can only surmise that this bag suits those not wanting to get tangled up with bushes and such along tight trails hence keeping it all close in with the bike. Just my .02

I for one love my low saddle long flap bag.

~Hugh

[Garth]

I bought the slightly smaller "Pika" and am very very happy with it !

Joe b. mentioned many of my  reasons too. My biggest reason is no, zero, nada saddlebad "sway" !  I ride in and out of the saddle, and I do not like the "sway" effect at all. These bags are easily compressed with the straps making them a part of the bike.  There are 4 tie downs on top also that I use for quick reach items like a vest, or shirt . 

No, these are not "kitchen sink" bags .... light and lean is their intent.  They are brilliant for what they are intended for. If I wanted to carry more, I'd use a rack and other bags, something that does not shift around.

The cost ?  I could say the same thing about canvas bags !  Like those, these are not "ordinary" saddlebags.  The nylon used is heavy duty and top notch,and very very well thought out,  unlike your common saddlebag. And like many such items ... they are not made in bulk and the company very small. I don't know if the person who stared this company makes them still himself, or he has helpers.

-cheers :)

[Deacon Patrick]

"those not wanting to get tangled up with bushes and such along tight trails"

I thought that's what momentum is for. Grin. It got me through a number of snug encounters with a satisfying "CRACK SNAP!" That SaddleSack waxed canvas is durable stuff and such loving abuse just adds character to it.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Anne Paulson]

"The nylon used is heavy duty and top notch,and very very well thought
out, unlike your common saddlebag."

I don't doubt that the Revelate bags are thought out, but I take
exception to the idea that other saddlebags are not well thought out.
I have both a Nelson Longflap and the splendid Rivendell Large
Saddlesack. Both are exceedingly well thought out.

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[Deacon Patrick]

If you're gonna take marketing personally you're in for a wild ride. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Michael]

I love my carradice pendle bag.

 

I got a great blowout sales price from Peter White Cycles on my first one.

 

I need to get another for my Bleriot.

[Joe Broach]

Hi Anne,

Interesting observations. I've been happy with my old Baggins Hoss but not too thrilled with my Carradice Camper (purchased in 2010). The leather straps on the latter are poor quality and started cracking almost immediately. The hardware is cheap with sharp edges. It's currently out of commission because one of the screws attaching the bag to the wooden dowel pulled through the fabric. Too much stress is placed on these tiny screws because the dowel constantly gets pulled out of their leather endcap reinforcements. Maybe some of their smaller bags work better. I wouldn't buy another, though I've heard that older production was better quality. I'll stick to Riv or others for saddlebag needs.

Best,

joe broach

portland, or

[Garth]

FWIW .. I don't consider the Nelson and others like it "common", so my comment was not speaking to those Anne ;)   I'm speaking of the common bags you find most widely distributed in bike shops and online retailers and such.  To a Riv owner, yes they are ... but outside of this comparatively small circle , most have not heard of or seen a Nelson bag, let alone a Rivendell frame !

[Christian]

Anne et al,

Take a look at these excellent blogs: http://www.whileoutriding.com and http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com. Some of you no doubt know about them already.  There's a lot of good info on the pros and cons of bikepacking type set ups.  I've learned a lot and gone from being very skeptical--oh what's the point of that-I used panniers on the great divide-etc and so forth to thinking thee bikepacking set ups have great merit.    But, really, of course, whatever works. 

Christian 

[Mike Schiller]

I'm with Garth, I prefer my Revelate seat bag to any of the Carradice saddlebags. They are lighter, don't sway and are great for compressing your gear.  Also. on rugged terrain, you are often pushing your bike, which can be a hassle with rear panniers in the way. 

As a lifelong backpacker, I've accumulated a lot of ultralight camping gear that fit's more easily in the smaller spaces of the frame bags while still providing the camp comforts I desire.  While I don't drag along chairs  and musical instruments I do bring along a small flask for campfire relaxing.

Plenty of bikepackers are not racers BTW, just out to enjoy the outdoors and ride without monstrous loads.  

~mike

[Mojo]

My offroad riding buddies all carry packs. I ride with a rack and trunk bag, and strap on panniers for overnights+. Apparently I am hopelessly outdated. So be it. I have that equipment and don't plan to buy another set of bags to fit the latest trends, dagnabit!

 

 

[Tim McNamara]

Use your favorite search engine to check out Igor Kovse, a devotee of ultralight bike touring who has done things like ride through the Himalayas with less that a Carradice Nelson worth of gear. It's a different mindset- many of my friends take more stuff on an S24O than he did to ride across 100 French cols on his way to PBP or from Dushanbe to Delhi. The Revelate would be more than spacious enough for Igor, I suspect. IIRC he managed one tour with less than 10 kg worth of gear including the bike (none of my bikes weigh less than 10 kg by themselves, I think). He is comfortable with things I would not be.

Ultimately you need to have the bags to haul what you think you need to haul. I did 10 days in the Alps plus a few days in Paris with my bike and what I could fit in a Carradice Nelson. It's not hard to not carry too much stuff- but someone else's too much stuff is likely different than mine. That's OK.

[Ron Mc]

I really, really really like my (discontinued) Acorn tubular bag on my go-fast bike - I can outfit it either for my tubular or clincher wheelset (I keep either supply staged in gallon ziplocs)

It carries everything I might need to get home on a bad day and still room for car keys and cell phone, etc - just no room for a beer.  

Not on this bike, but if I want to haul more, I prefer my rando bag (11 liter).  

note the fork geometry is good for front loads

[Patrick Moore]

One advantage is that they clear rear tires better than transverse bags. Even the Junior drags on the rear tire of my size M Fargo -- mostly solved by a cardboard stiffener -- while a "wedge" of similar size would clear the tire better. And, as others have said, no rack and certainly no loops required.

That said, if Carradice bags were better known and positioned in the marketplace differently, they would probably be popular as light off road touring baggage.

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[Hugh Smitham]

Patrick Moore, have been wondering where you've been...glad to see your here.

Best,

~Hugh

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[Patrick Moore]

I haven't gone away (much to y'all's chagrin); have  been simultaneously sick and busy (and irritable and morose). Better today.

[Ron Mc]

hang in there, bro, you have friends here

[Mike Schiller]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:10:44 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

I was looking at different bikes at my LBS today, and oh, look at 
that, suddenly mountain bike manufacturers like Salsa are selling
rigid bikes as mountain bikes. Hmm.

--
-- Anne Paulson

Salsa and Surly have been doing the rigid MTB for a number of years.  The Fargo and Ogre both look like perfect bikes for off-road touring, just as a Hunqapillar of Bomba would.  I'm really interested int he new Surly ECR with 29 x 3" tires.  It has all the braze on's for racks or can be run with frame bags. Low BB ( like Atlantis low at 80mm) kinda like a LHT for pure off-road camping/touring.

~mike 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. As usual, I was exaggerating -- things are not too bad.

Back to regular programming.

PAM, blushing furiously (not to say morosely) in ABQ, NM

[Shawn Granton]

A few points:

• There are some bikepacker types who use traditional Carradice saddlebags. Nick of Gypsy By Trade does. http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/ If you look at his touring bike page, you can see his Camper Longflap on his Raleigh XXIX+G, Pugsley, and pretty much all of his bikes. http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/my-bikes/ In fact, I purchased an old Lowsaddle Longflap off of him.
• Carradice does make some saddlebags that are more wedge shape, so more in line with the Revelate style bags and all.         http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&under=range&product_id=138                                                         http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&under=range&product_id=57                                                                          http://www.carradice.co.uk/index.php?page_id=product&product_id=56
• Joe B in Portland, if you're thinking of selling your Camper Longflap at a reasonable price, please get in touch!

your Carradice partisan,

Shawn

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[Hugh Smitham]

+1 what Ron MC said. Hope you feel better real soon.

Best,

~Hugh

[Peter Morgano]

The list wouldn't be the same without you Patrick, take that for what it is, haha.

[Steven Frederick]

Mountain bikes are fun.  Take a look at some of SOMA's offerings.  They're one of the least expensive brands that use frame size specific tubing in their builds.  I really like my Juice (set up as a singlespeed) and almost bought a B-line.  

The Revelate bags are designed to be minimalist and fit mountain bikes that don't really have any allowance for touring gear.  (no braze ons, suspension complications, etc).  They're also designed to be streamlined and out of the way when trail riding, utilizing the "dead spaces" of the frame (main triangle, under the bars, behind the saddle, etc) 

Steve.

[sameness]

One possible minor benefit: Lesser likelihood of thigh contact? 

Never used a Revelate, but unless my Lowsaddle Longflap is packed pert near solid, it has a tendency to get a little floppy at the corners and bow in towards the back of the saddle. 

The thigh contact isn't a deal breaker, but if I had a choice in the matter, it wouldn't be happening.

Jeff Hagedorn

Warragul, VIC Australia

[Garth]

Yep, I didn't mention it , but thigh rubbing is another "non negotiable" for me.  For this reason I even ditched the Banana Bag I once had, I rigged it so it wouldn't rub, but then it would sway because I couldn't get the leather strap tight enough around the seat stays ... lol.  The Revelate bags are like the Banana bag embiggened and perfected !

[Anne Paulson]

Thanks, everybody, for your excellent, thought-provoking posts and
links. Whoever mentioned those super-big 3" tires for off-road, yeah.
The Krampus and the ECR look so cool.

One thing I hadn't appreciated about the Revelate-style bags is that
saddlebags that aren't any wider than me are not going to be a problem
*when riding*. But they might be a problem *when pushing*. I almost
never push my Atlantis when I'm touring-- that's what low gears are
for-- but off-road, I'd definitely be spending plenty of time
hike-a-biking. Rear panniers get in the way of my legs when pushing,
and wide saddlebags are somewhat in the way as well.

[Deacon Patrick]

I hike-a-bike quite a bit, with the large SaddleSack and sometimes with the TourSacks under it. Neither has been an issue for me.

With abandon,

Patrick

[jinxed]

The Revelate bags may look a little odd in comparison to the earthy vibe of Carradice, Baggins, Berthoud etc...but I guarantee you they are purpose built to survive some pretty extreme use. I happen to know the man behind the company and every bag he makes was built out of first hand experience that led to a need. He lives in Alaska now, but he was part of our circle of MTB friends here in Colorado. He would take off in the middle of the night in a snow storm to go make an ice cave and sleep in it just because.

Eric is one of those guys I look up to and admire for his seemingly bottomless craving for adventure. Over the years I'll get forwarded pics or videos of him from some crazy environment in a far away land. Totally alone, completely self supported. Using equipment he designed and made by hand. That's commitment.

Not sure carrying a raft and oars constitutes "ultra light" packing, but I'm gonna guess these guys dont skimp function.

This showed up in my email a couple years ago. A super enjoyable video of Eric and friends touring the coast.

http://vimeo.com/25943565

[Mike Schiller]

s24o in a snow cave.... Done that a few times for fun... also sleep outside w/o sleeping bag on a firebed in the mid 30's. . Life is too boring too just sleep in a tent!  

I have one of his seatbags, very well engineered and well made.  I need to get a frame bag next.

~mike

[Anne Paulson]

Can someone who uses the full bikepacking setup tell me how much it
holds? Assuming that the frame bag holds the food, I'm having trouble
understanding how a tent (let's say the Hubba), a sleeping bag, a pad
and some rainclothes and other extra clothes, plus phone and tools and
things like that, can fit in a handlebar roll and a Viscacha
saddlebag. And that's not even considering even the most minimal
stove.

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Dan Abelson <d...@abelsons.net> wrote:
> I have a relevate tangle bag and a revelate mountain feed bag. I like them
> both a lot. They are well made, well thought out and work great.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St. Paul, MN

[Lyle Bogart]

Hi Anne,

I'm coming to this discussion rather late, but your most recent query leads me to ask if you've looked at the rig set-ups on bikepacking.net? One specific rig might be "yamric's fargo 2 configuration." There are multiple photos and a list of whatall is in each bag. 

Thanks to all who've shared thoughts on this thread; very interesting!

Cheers!

lyle

[Clayton]

Hi Ann, 

Check out this site. There are many setups for bikepacking and for the Revelate type setups.

http://www.bikepacking.net/ 

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:10:44 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

I'm still thinking about setting up a dedicated mountain bike for
offroad touring. As I read journals and articles online, I see that
the various frame bags made by Revelate and others are becoming
popular. Like this one:

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Seat-Bags/Viscacha

And I don't get it. Why would a bag like that, which is small and
which has a small opening so it's harder to load, be better than a
transverse saddlebag such as Carradice and Riv sell?

I was looking at different bikes at my LBS today, and oh, look at
that, suddenly mountain bike manufacturers like Salsa are selling
rigid bikes as mountain bikes. Hmm.

[Anne Paulson]

Thanks, Lyle, that's just what I was looking for. And thanks,
Clayton, for also recommending the link.

[Sean Cleary]

Revelate and Rivendell are two ENTIRELY different schools of thought, each having their own merits. I own three Revelate bags and sold a fourth (frame bag): Viscacha (awful name), Gas Tank and Mountain feed bag. All three get swapped back and forth between my mountain bike, fat (snow) bike and gravel bike (Fargo), non of which have a rack. Pros: lightweight; needs no rack; fast and easy to swap between bikes; affordable. Cons: Viscacha is kinda ugly, if that matters.

I also own a Hilsen (for sale!) with Rivendell's medium saddlesack. Like the Viscacha, the medium saddlesack swallows everything that I throw into it with room for more. Big Riv saddlesacks weigh considerably more and require a rack if you can't stand the constant thigh rubbing like me. They are beautiful though and that can trump other factors for most. Pros: classic beauty; highest durability (?); best resale value. Cons: Expensive; magnet for astute thieves; can't be placed on and off quickly for frequent store visits, if that matters.

Sean

[Anne Paulson]

I see some people use a Revelate front sling, and a more traditional
saddlebag. Like this guy:
http://www.bikepacking.net/individual_setups/niknaks-niner-emd-on-the-gdmbr/

So Revelate and Carradice can co-exist on the same bike.