Joe Appaloosa?

[James Warren]

"[Sam Hillborne] is going to get benched for a year or so to make room for the Joe Appaloosa, a name that was originally pegged for a super long bike, but now we’re putting that name on this other model," is a new statement on the Riv Blug.

But I can't tell what is meant by "this other model." Is it Clem Smith Jr.?

[iamkeith]

Maybe the name "Clem Smith" just had too much baggage associated with it?  Wouldn't want to alienate prospective buyers from the far right:  http://www.trevorloudon.com/2011/04/red-reps-7-clem-smith-communist-party-sympathizer-in-the-missouri-state-legislature/ 

Or maybe it's another project altogether?  Someone hear should know.

[Goshen Peter]

So the Mystery bike is gonna be the Joe Appaloosa which was previously called the Clem Smith? This is like watching Dynasty with my mom as a kid.....

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[hangtownmatt]

Jim,

Forget about it.  Now go take some pictures of the Big Ben 700 x 50's on your Hillborne!  :>)

Matt

[Anne Paulson]

So, if the Sam Hillborne is their most popular bike of all time, why
are they benching it? That doesn't make sense.

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-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Chris Chen]

Maybe because the Sam was $1,000 less than the next model? And if the Clem is even more affordable, that would do it.

cc

"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

[dougP]

This situation is perfectly translucent.  Clem?  Joe?  Will the real New Rivendell please stand up? 

Sam is the most popular bike in the line-up, most versatile they've built, sells lots (by Rivendell measures).  Sam has set a pretty high bar for this new model to beat.  The plot thickens as it simmers.  Back to the bacon book.

dougP

[Tom Virgil]

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:25:18 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

So, if the Sam Hillborne is their most popular bike of all time, why
are they benching it? That doesn't make sense.

I am seriously wondering about that, Anne.   I have a Sam Hillborne, seriously like it, and wonder why? I ride it for all of the reasons their blurbs tout  about it.  I guess i am happy I got it in it's space of time.

Best regards,

Tom

Guess I got one while I could.  I could comment more, but there is  a bit 

Best reg

[Ron Mc]

Part of it is a question of inventory for Grant.  It costs cash flow to stock many different models.  I'm also not surprised about Appaloosa or Clem.  While I think the proto Appaloosa frame was cool as can be, and of course haven't ridden one, it's not going to take on the mainstream.  I think Clem is a dumb name to sell to the mainstream.  Recently,  the bike press has been giving way to steel.  A thousand-dollar market entry could be a very good thing for Grant and Rivendell and part of that is people buying the name.  

[Marc Irwin]

That's what it sounds like to me also.  When he first mentioned it, he said he had all sizes available in two colors.  With two new models coming out, plus the Cheviot, he may have close to two years of inventory on hand.

[Eric]

That Appaloosa bike is pretty much the ugliest thing ever. It kinda reminds me of a beach cruiser and there's no positive association with such.

Clem Smith = stupid name & nothing special. If that's the price point they're targeting I'll buy a Surly.

Isn't the Yen on a 7-year low?

[Goshen Peter]

Whoa Eric, don't hold back tell us how you really feel, hahaha. I too am a skeptic but Grant and crew have ways of surprising so I am still holding judgement until some ride reports on these new models, the proof is in the pudding after all.

--

[iamkeith]

Ignoring the aesthetic argument, I did hear on NPR just this morning that the Japanese had officially re-entered recession.   And, after being trained by Grant to associate bike prices with dollar-to-yen ratios, you know what my first thought was?!!!:  "Hmmm... wonder if the Clem could now afford full headtube lugs?" 

I'm still thinking/hoping the Clem (or whatever it ends up being called) WILL be somewhat special.  Not just cheap, but different than anything else out there, and in a way that will make you want to use it.  So you can rationalize buying it AND a Surly.  ;-)  N+2...

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Your aesthetic judgment might be altered when you ride one; it’s a very sweet ride.

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[Anne Paulson]

Do we now think that the new Joe Appaloosa will be at a similar price
point to a Surly? Surly sells a lot of bikes. If a stylish new
Rivendell can be had for a Surly price, people are going to buy it.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 6:20 PM, James Warren <jimcw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
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[Chris Lampe 2]

I'm also withholding judgement.  The Atlantis, Bombadil and Hunqapillar look like fantastic bikes that I could really get into.  The AHH is equally awesome looking but not enough bike for a clyde like me.  The SOMA San Marcos and the Sam Hillborne do absolutely nothing for me and sadly, they are the only two I might actually be able to afford.  

I don't remember the details on this new bike but hopefully it will have clearance for 60mm tires.  As much as Grant has pushed fatter tires, why build an all-purpose bike that is limited to 40'ish mm tires?   There are just too many good, wide touring and MTB tires available to design a new bike without that much clearance.  

For the price point that has been discussed, it's going to be extremely hard to beat a 26" Surly LHT, Troll or Ogre.     

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

I assumed it would be a Taiwanese frame at that price point. Is it listed as a Japanese built frame and I missed that?

I noticed Boulder is dropping it's prices on Japanese parts, stating that it's due to the drop in the yen. Hopefully Riv will follow suit!!!

[Chris in Redding, Ca.]

Hey All,

Someone said "That Appaloosa bike is pretty much the ugliest thing ever." 

Well, I actually thought it was kinda pretty. But looks aside a long wheelbase do-it-all is actually an excellent choice for a lot of people. I ride one from back in the day and they are super versatle. Iffin I had the money I would endeavor to own an Appaloosa. 

Regards,

Chris, who rides an 84 stumpy sport everyday, in Redding, Ca.

[hsmitham]

I agree with Ron that it's an inventory cash flow decision on Grant's benching Sam awhile, so while the Sam is a great bike and their best seller per Rivs own metrics it make sense.

On the matter of the Clem name, though not my favorite I don't think it's dumb, but the Joe Apooloosa has a nice ring to it

Is Joe Apooloosa supposed to be a full touring bike like the Trucker & Atlantis? If yes and Riv gets it into the $1300 or $1500 range I think they'll sell well against the Trucker.

I've ridden the Proto-appoloosa at Riv Hq and it rides fantastic...and it's a gorgeous looking bike. Ugly is harsh but Eric your entitled to your opinion.

-Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

[Eric Daume]

Maybe there was a top tube shortage?

[dougP]

"Isn't the Yen on a 7-year low?"

Exchange rates are the pure play in int'l trade.  Prices for goods & services are seriously sticky and tend not to respond rapidly downward to changes in exchange rates.  So, even though today's rate is around 117:1, it will have to stay there a while before you see parts prices come down. 

With Rivendell frames coming from Taiwan, the Japanese situation wouldn't influence the frame price.  Expect Shimano to keep their component prices at current levels.  So a large part of any complete build won't be impacted by Japanese economics. 

dougP

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:04:10 AM UTC-8, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

For the price point that has been discussed, it's going to be extremely hard to beat a 26" Surly LHT, Troll or Ogre.

The LHT rides like an old dog. I know because I ride one regularly as my commuter/beater. A couple of friends whom I've tried to fit bikes-to-budgets/usages also thought it was dull during test rides (without me prompting at all). It's utilitarian and good value-for-money, but it's not the first bike I'll pick if "joy" is a consideration. For my money, if it's close in price and rides much better, it should be an (relatively) easy sell.

[Hugh Smitham]

Exactly.

I know the Sam can carry a load but does Riv consider it a loaded tourer? The LHT is. And if the Appaloosa is intended as a loaded tour bike then yeah I'd choose it over the LHT, even if it's a budget Sam I'd choose it over the Trucker. You just know that Riv will come up with a great riding bike.

-Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

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[Chris Chen]

I find the "loaded tourer" bit interesting. Stock frames have to be built for a range of riders, from a 135 lb flyweight to a clydesdale. Yeah, maybe Riv may not consider the sam to be a loaded tourer but damn if you or I couldn't load it up to high heaven and ride safely and comfortably where we wish to go.

Given, of course, the wheels aren't 12 spoke waifs :)

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[Montclair BobbyB]

... and just what IS behind these names???  Clem Smith... country craftsman??  Joe Appaloosa... half man, half horse??  

[iamkeith]

You're right.  I was thinking specifically about the lugs, which I thought came from Japan.   But I just went back and read that Long Shen entry from the Blug (http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/46520755775/long-shen-trip) and they clearly are from Taiwan as well.   I remember reading something in an old Reader or somewhere, that talked about how the lugs and crowns (and maybe forks) were made in one country, while the frames were fabricated in another.  Must have been the other way around though, when they still had more work being done in Japan.

[Rod Holland]

You can teach that old dog some new tricks with some supple Compass tires. Been there, done that, liked the results.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Of course, it's worth noting that the biggest input to the ride signature for the LHT (comfy, stable) is its long chainstays/long wheelbase. Given that those attributes figure prominently in the pending River introductions,that might be food for thought for those who dislike the LHT's ride/handling...

rod