synergy rims (again?)

[MobileBill]

I say this recognizing that I might be jumping to conclusions, but I seem to have once again had problems with Synergy OC 650B rims. Since so many of you have them, I'm asking you to help my analyze whether the problem is the rim or something else.

    Here's the issue: A really severe creaking has been rattling through the frame and getting worse for some months. I mean howling loud - you could hear me creaking from a block away. It was worse when I turned the pedals, but it made some noise all the time. I changed saddles, retightened bb and chainrings and pedals, reset cassette and checked rear hub and finally got the bright idea of changing out the wheel.

    As soon as I did, the noise stopped. Now I'm looking at the rim, and I see the same hairline cracks developing around the eyelets that I had developing with my first synergy oc rim several years ago.

    This relatively new rim, a replacement for the first cracked synergy oc rim, only has a little over 2000 miles on it. It was built by one of the best wheelbuilders. I thought that the early problems with oc rims had been fixed.
     I don't think it's just me: I weigh 180 pounds and inflate Schwalbe marathons to no more than 60 psi. I carry groceries home on my commute, and travel occasionally rough city streets, but do not ride this bike off road (though I would like to if the danged rims could be trusted).

     Do you think the creaking and the cracking are related?

     How long can I keep riding with cracked rims?

     Is anyone else experiencing this rim cracking? I don't have this problem on any other rims, including some less stout Mavic rims ...
     Is this something that should be happening this quickly (my Marathon tires last two to three times longer than the rim!)?

     SHould I pester velocity? the wheel builder?

 

     

[MobileBill]

And am I correct in conjecturing that Velocity no longer offers Synergy OC (see website)?

[Nanga Parbat]

That is scary. I just ordered a set of synergy rims for a new build. I would suggest advising the wheel builder and then contacting Velocity.  

I think Velocity would want to clear up your case quickly, especially being your second OC rim. Good customer service would only benefit Velocity

and this group should be on their radar.

Cheers,

Scott

[IanA]

In terms of the creaking, it would be a good idea to find out exactly what is the cause.  If you could try a different wheel on the back and if the creaking is still there, it could be bottom bracket related, or a pedal or the saddle or any number of things.  It can be difficult to find the cause of a creak, squeak or rattle, but some investigation is certainly necessary as damage to threads could occur if the creaking is at the bottom bracket, for example.  That us to say if the BB has partially un-threaded itself.

Cracks in a wheel can also make a creaking sound, but they should be reasonably easy to spot.  Look for hairline cracks starting at the spoke hole or eyelet on the rim. A friend of mine rode a rim with cracks in it for some distance (a few weeks while touring) and it didn't cause problems, but he described the noises as alarming.

If the problem is the rim itself, assuming the wheel-builder sourced the rim for you, he should be able to sort out any warranty stuff.  Velocity have a good reputation for customer service, so it's worth following up.

IanA.

[MobileBill]

To clarify, I did change out the wheel, and the creaking stopped, so it's not the bb. Put the wheel back on, and it started again. Rear hub is smooth as glass. There are two cracks at least, still small but noticeable. And the noise is alarming. I'm guessing the two are related, and your friend's experience indicates that it is.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Wheel specific creaking can be the QR.  

But, since you are having eyelet cracking (photos anywhere?), I'd suspect something is Not Right™

I'd start with a low-key chat with the builder.  They may know exactly what the issue is. 

- Jim

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/09/2014 11:50 PM, Nanga Parbat wrote:
> That is scary. I just ordered a set of synergy rims for a new build. I
> would suggest advising the wheel builder and then contacting Velocity.
> I think Velocity would want to clear up your case quickly, especially
> being your second OC rim. Good customer service would only benefit
> Velocity
> and this group should be on their radar.
>

Velocity's customer service on this issue in the past has been outstanding.

[MobileBill]

Thanks to all for comments and advice.

Jim, I did remove the qr and cleaned, but no change. I'll replace it entirely and see if that makes a difference. 

The hairline cracks are still small -- not yet as extended as the ones on my first rim -- but they are clearly developing spreading an inch or so from a couple of eyelets in either direction. I also decided to check the OC rims on the Betty, and I see them developing there as well.

Front synergy rims, by the way, show little signs of wear or trouble after almost 19,000 miles.

[Scott Shelton]

Is it possible the rims were older stock, prior to Velocity beefing up the eyelet area? 

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[MobileBill]

Scott

   They should have been built up after the rim improvement measures. But I'm not sure what the likelihood is that you'll experience these problems...

    I had a good conversation with Velocity, and they are bending over backwards to make things right. As annoying as this has been for me, I feel bad for them -- I think they generally make good products and they've really made an effort to build rims suitable for Rivendell-style riding.

     As they note, there are a lot of OC rims out there that they haven't heard complaints about. Maybe those riders don't ride as much, or don't notice, or genuinely aren't having a problem. But for some of us, for reasons I'm not smart enough to figure out, these Synergy OCs have been an issue. In my case, it's not excess weight or ill-suited tires. Maybe it's something about the design coupled with our road conditions or climate or ... 

     I did confirm that they have discontinued the OC version of the Synergy.

    Since some asked, I am attaching a photo of one the typical cracks here. I am told that this kind of cracking can occur on rims by various makers, so it may be wise to look for this regardless of who made the rim. At this stage, I'm guessing the rim is still ridable if incredibly noisy, but I am told it can eventually spread around the rim and virtually split the rim in two. I'm hoping most of us would notice well before that happens ... 

      (Jim, negative on the QR being the source of the sound. But thanks for the suggestion.)

[Tim Gavin]

I guess I'll keep an eye on my eyelets.  I recently built up a Synergy 650b OC rear rim.  Twice, actually; I dented the first rim on a huge pavement crack within the first week.  That was totally my fault.

I'm 220# and I ride these wheels on gravel and commuting, in addition to road touring.  I went with the OC rim because it made for a strong, nearly dishless wheel with the Phil FW hub.

Tim

[Eric Platt]

Had a Salsa Delgado rim crack like that last year.  Had been on for about 3 years.  My weight and riding style is more to blame than anything when stuff like that happens.

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

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[Jim Bronson]

My Synergy rear non-oc was the same, I've got cracking around 5 of the eyelets and even though the rim runs perfectly straight and true and seems in no danger of immanent failure, I just couldn't stand the noise anymore.  I was riding a 102K permanent through some very exclusive neighborhoods on Sunday afternoon and it seemed like people in their yards noticed I was coming by the creaking noises that accompanied me.  Embarrasing.

I just had another 650b wheel built for a different bike that I've now put on my Rivendell so I can ride it without the noise.  I was still waiting on the front hub for the other bike anyway so it's ok for now.

Trying to decide what to replace it with - obviously not another Synergy.  Not sure if I will use the same hub, it's 32h and I am 260 lbs or so.  There are some 650b Dyads floating around in 32 and 36h.  Velocity also makes the Atlas in polished silver in 32 and 36h.  And Pacenti now makes the SL23 in silver, so that might be an option.  It's got more of an aero profile though which I think is a bit ugly.  That being said the DeepV has always worked pretty well for me and it's got a similar profile.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Jim Bronson]

Yes, I noticed that just after I sent my last email on this topic that I got an email from Velocity's customer service department.  They are proposing that I send them the wheel and they will rebuild it with an Atlas rim.  I'm happy with this proposal.  Bit of a heavy rim but probably appropriate considering my weight and my usage profile.  It's also polished and sure looks super shiny.  I like shiny bits on my bike.

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[Jim Bronson]

OBTW, the warranty form is here:
http://www.velocityusa.com/about/warranty/

[Bruce Herbitter]

I don't have as many miles as my downstate neighbor, MobileBill, but I just went and looked and cannot find a single crack on either of my OC synergy rear wheels. One has about 11,000 miles and the other about 5,000. Starting to get a little brake pad wear, but not enough to merit any action on my part. 

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