Hetres are done.The search continues.

[hsmitham]

I had a little experience around dusk. Read about it here.

~Hugh

[Michael]

Glad you are not hurt (your are ok?).

I have Hetres on my Bleriot but haven't really done any commuting on them. I was gonna put them on my Sam (full time bike now).

But I mentally just can't get past having only rubber and a liner between the tube and the road.

And I definitely would not want to be fixing a flat in the 35 degree temps we have in MD now.

So maybe I will try them next spring and see how they do.

Though I have heard Jan say that his Hetres do really well commuting. I am sure others have a good track record with theirs, too.

I am still looking out for some lightweight, fast, puncture protected, 650b tires.

For now I am enjoying my stock build Marathons on my Sam.

They don't feel any slower on the Sam than when I had Rumpkins and Swiftys on the Bleriot.

Seen any reviews on the new puncture protected Rumpkins? Maybe they would do better for you.

[Michael]

Or, the GB Lierre. That looks like it has a thicker tread on it than the Hetre.

[Hugh Smitham]

Michael,

I have a set of the "Force Field Rumpkin's" and are now on the Hilsen :-) I ran them for a while then went back to the Hetres and loved how fast they were, but here in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains they're truly under-biking...I've heard folks say they're great for gravel so I figure they'd be fine for commuting. 

I'll look into the Lierre.

Best,

~Hugh

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Michael <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or, the GB Lierre. That looks like it has a thicker tread on it than the Hetre.

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[Bruce Herbitter]

RBW Nifty-Swifties are reliable, if not quite "light."

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[mikel...@juno.com]

my friends' Saluki with Hertres has toured the C & O towpath and The Katy Trail, both gravel roads, and has experienced zero flats in over 500 miles....and thats with about 50 pounds of gear plus rider

mike goldman
warwick,r.i.
____________________________________________________________
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1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage
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[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/28/2013 12:12 AM, Michael wrote:
> I have Hetres on my Bleriot but haven't really done any commuting on
> them. I was gonna put them on my Sam (full time bike now).
> But I mentally just can't get past having only rubber and a liner
> between the tube and the road.

What else would you expect? Steel belts?

[Matthew J]

The sturdier tires get, the less comfortable they are.  Quite the dilemma, and one to which there is yet any easy solution.  

[Matthew J]

Left out the 'not' between 'yet' and 'any'.

[Patrick Moore]

Generally but not always true. Schwalbe models somehow are comfortable while being sturdy; I am thinking of the Big Apple (60 mm) and the Kojak (~35 mm). Perhaps they design even belted tires with supple sidewalls. 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Matthew J <matth...@gmail.com> wrote:

The sturdier tires get, the less comfortable they are.  Quite the dilemma, and one to which there is yet any easy solution.  

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Albuquerque, NM

[Matthew J]

I've had and liked Kojaks.  The ride does not compare to Grand Bois Extra Legers or Challenge Paris-Roubaix. 

[Chris Halasz]

In my search for 650b tires, I had read that the Lierres have a habit of picking up gravel between the tread -- more so than Col de la Vies.

 

Have you tried the Soma tires?

 

I abandoned a well worn ('supple') set of CdVs for some reflective and sturdy (reliable) Marathons. It is a trade space. I now ride Schwalbes on all of my bikes. 

 

FWIW, I actually prefer the ride of the Marathon Pluses on my Brompton over its previous non-belted tires. One Brompton owner posted how he had loathed the 'dead' feel of the Marathon Plus, but after checking his commute time, realized there was no measurable (i.e. Monte Carlo friendly) change. I wonder how much of it is in folks' heads, like nice labels on wine bottles. Not to minimize what's in our heads, of course. I'm sure some recall the wreck.bikes discussions on steel vs aluminum frames.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Tucson, AZ

[jimD]

As Grant points out in the new Riv Catalog,  inflation pressure is a significant variable. 

I'm fond of Jack Brown Greens and vary the pressure between 40 psi and 65+ psi.  

There's a world of difference in 'feel' within that range.

-JimD

[James Warren]

I am a Big Ben evangelist now. Maybe I am lucky to not be sensitive enough to notice if a tire is slow. I say this, because the Big Ben is surprisingly huge while to me it feels efficient on pavement. Maybe I'm blinded to all details, because I like my Hunq so much.

-Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2013, at 7:05 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Patrick Moore]

Agreed, to a point. But I was just remarking to myself the other day how nicely the Kojaks (559X1.35") felt compared to the 622X29 Parigi Roubaix on the Ram. Sure, the PR feel better; what surprises me is how *close* the Kojaks are. I can't speak about the GB ELs.

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[Chris Cullum]

I think it really depends on the terrain. Jan mentions that GB tires are just not appropriate for jagged rocky terrain like shale for example. I have been really happy with mine. I'm at over 10,000km on a set on all manner of rough terrain, wet commuting etc. Very few flats too. This is definitely a YMMV. I am a bit leery of the GB EL version for mixed terrain however.

Chris Cullum
Vancouver, BC

[Michael]

@ StevePalincsar:

Hetres are not puncture protected tires, like Marathons, Swiftys, Gatorskins, etc, are.

So, being a usual rider of puncture protected tires, I feel a little insecure on tires like Hetres that are just rubber with no puncture protection on them.

I like having puncture protection between the road and the tube. That is what I meant.

[Hugh Smitham]

Michael,

I'm fine thanks, just a little pocket book injury those tires are $68 + shipping. I've run the Marathons and had a flat but never a slash...the Rumpkins have a super thick casing and decent side wall, IIRC they rolled fairly well. I'll get a better feel tomorrow as I'll have a post thanksgiving ride...gotta burn those calories.

Best,

~Hugh

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[Hugh Smitham]

Bruce do they make Nifty-Swifties in 650b? I don't think so.

Best,

~Hugh

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[Hugh Smitham]

Mike I think gravel is different then sharp granitic rocks, I toured on them with the same weight down the California coast no problem. Have your friend come out here and run them on some of our trails no extra weight needed. YMMV.

Best,

~Hugh

[Hugh Smitham]

Patrick I have a set of BA's ready to go for the Atlantis can't wait to give em a go...heard lots of good things about them. Also going to experiment with the Stan's though that won't help with slashes.

Best,

~Hugh

--

[Hugh Smitham]

Can someone tell me if the Lierre have a beefier casing than the Hetres? Maybe shoot a pic? 

Chris H. I don't think the Soma's are going to anymore slash resistant than the Hetres. I plan on looking at some more Schwalbe tires perhaps the Marathon Pluses?

 Tires are the Holy Grail in the bike community. 

Best,

~Hugh

--

[Hugh Smitham]

Chris, for your purpose I think they're fine. For me I think they're a bit limited as I like the freedom of running off road on a whim. But glad they work for you.

Best,

~Hugh

--

[Mike Schiller]

Hey Hugh,   the Conti Tour Rides in 650B might be a good mixed surface tire.  The new 650B Big Ben's are probably going to be too big. Marked a 584-50 they probably will be around 45-46 mm wide.  

Or it could be that it's just the cream colored Hetres that are delicate. ;^)

~mike

[Mike]

On Friday, November 29, 2013 9:40:30 AM UTC-8, Mike Schiller wrote:

Hey Hugh,   the Conti Tour Rides in 650B might be a good mixed surface tire.  The new 650B Big Ben's are probably going to be too big. Marked a 584-50 they probably will be around 45-46 mm wide.  

 

 

Hugh, I was just getting ready to suggest these tires as I read through the thread. It's too bad Schwalbe isn't making the Mondial available in 650b. I've become a big fan of Schwalbe Marathons as they're quite durable and roll nice enough. Sure, they're sluggish, but so am I. Hell, i used 32mm Marathons twice on 600k brevets, both of which were in the rain and took in stretches of road with shoulders that were quite cluttered with debri and had no issues. I did not want to deal with tire issues or flats in the rain or at night. certainly don't think the tires held me back.

 

But since you already have the Fatty Rumpkins, just use those for a while.

 

--mike

[Leslie]

Hugh, the Nifty Swifty is a 650b tire...
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/t102-10082.htm

[Deacon Patrick]

You realize, of course, Hugh, that real men don't eat quiche or run tires with flat prevention. Since I love the Duremes, you know what that makes me. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Deacon of the Hinterlands...I love quiche and haven't run flat prevention yet but were in a new millennium so all those old rules just don't apply.

Grin.

Best,

~Hugh

[Deacon Patrick]

Rules?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Hugh Smitham]

Exactly;-)

Best,

~Hugh

[Mike]

Did someone say rules?

 

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

 

--mike

[Hugh Smitham]

No way dude. I'm a frigging outlaw!

[David Yu Greenblatt]

RBW Outlaw Bicycle Club One-Percenter For Life! 

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[Hugh Smitham]

You know it.

Best,

~Hugh

[Jim]

Those rules are great. I will have to keep a copy in my hat until I have them memorized.       Jim D.   Massachusetts

[Iron Rider]

I had major sidewall blowout with the GB lierre: http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/06/images-from-catskill-600k.html  I won't be buying that tire again.

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

Nice blog… bummer about the tires. Good luck in the search.--Smitty

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I commute on Soma Xpress 650b tires. They have a puncture resistant
belt that makes them tougher, but I like the ride on them. They are
not Pari Moto tires, but much more durable!

Toshi

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[Jim Bronson]

Yes, they do make Nifty Swifties in 650b, I have a set on my bike now...

http://www.ebikestop.com/panaracer_nifty_swifty_650b_x_328mm_blacktan_steel-TR2322.php

Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Bill Lindsay]

It's always a bummer when you cut an expensive tire, especially when it's fairly new.  Maybe I'm reckless, but I think of tire cuts as EXTREMELY rare events.  Moreover, the things that I've run over to badly cut a tire in my ~35 years of cycling usually would have cut ANY tire (once, a thick nail poked a hole in the RIM).  

My thing is, if it's going to happen about once every 5 years or so, and if it's going to ruin any tire, then I might as well spend those 5 years riding on nice-riding tires.  If you, Hugh, can somehow be sure that the thing that cut your Hetre is going to happen really often and if you can know that there is a tire that won't be cut by that same thing, then you can sensibly argue that there's a cost-benefit trade off that makes more sense.  I just don't see how you could know either of those things.  If that's the case, you are investing in peace of mind, which is fine, of course.  Me, I'd continue to invest in ride quality.  

Bill "who-runs-force-field-fatty-rumpkins-on-his-heaviest-stiffest-bike" Lindsay

[Jim Bronson]

11 miles to Suffern'

LOL.  Great picture.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:06 PM, Iron Rider <100...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had major sidewall blowout with the GB lierre: http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/06/images-from-catskill-600k.html  I won't be buying that tire again.

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[Hugh Smitham]

Bill,

I can't for certain say what caused the slash in my tire, if I were to surmise I'd say it was a sharp rock which exposed the tube that later blew out when I rolled over something that wouldn't necessarily slash the tire but easily punctured the tube or the original slash also slashed the tube but not all the way through so as I rode it finally gave up the ghost. The latter I feel is the most likely.

At this time I am aware that I'm not aware of a tire that is supple fast and puncture or slash resistant for all circumstances... there is always a compromise. I knew that running the Hetres I was gambling when I rode on MTB trails my mistake. Use the correct tool for the job!

So on my 650b Hilsen if I want to go off, off road I run the "Force Field Rumpkins" which I have taken on arguably tough roads & single track meant for MTB knobby tires and they have held up excellent. That Bill is some peace of mind I just need to have another wheel set to swap rough stuff tires with supple fast roady tires... ah here we go adding to the already long list.

I'm looking for a everyday tire that will roll with less resistance but with better slash and puncture resistance than the Hetres and can handle the occasional light off-road foray. I'm looking at the Soma Xpress and the Nifty Swifty but leaning toward the Soma's as he Grant seems to like them.

I heard my buddy Evan had a worn set of original Rumpkins and they tore on the side wall. All things are transient. 

Hugh "the search continues "Smitham

Best,

~Hugh

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[Hugh Smitham]

Great field repair! I gotta remember that for the future.

Best,

~Hugh

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Iron Rider <100...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had major sidewall blowout with the GB lierre: http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/06/images-from-catskill-600k.html  I won't be buying that tire again.

[cyclotourist]

+1 on having a second wheelset. Much less expensive than having a second bike!

>>> here<http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/>
>>> .

>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
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Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Hugh Smitham]

But there's nothing wrong with having another bike right.

Best,

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

Well, I suppose...

[Hugh Smitham]

Right Mr. Bike of the Month club Rat-a-tat!

Best,

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

Do as I say, not as I do...

[Hugh Smitham]

Wait a gosh darn second...aren't they one in the same.

Best,

~Hugh

[cyclotourist]

Occasionally...

[Hugh Smitham]

In the case of the Bike of the Month Club it's yes often.

Best,

~Hugh

Occasionally...

[cyclotourist]

December is just starting... I'd like me one of those SOMA Grand Randos!

On 12/3/13, Hugh Smitham <hughs...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Hugh Smitham]

Ha!

[Michael]

Hugh,

 

If you are going to throw away the blown tire, could you use a packing knife and cut a section off of it and post a pic here of it so we can see the casing/tread head on?

I am trying to understand what Hetres have - an actual casing that wraps around the beads, or just threads embedded into sidewall rubber that wrap around the bead.

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

I like this idea. 

I've done similar with expired rims. If nothing else to see what's left and if they were really expired. What I learned is that I probably wait too long to swap out rims. They were scary thin. 

--Smitty

[Iron Rider]

I had a sidewall blowout on my Grand Bois Lierres. I won't be buying those again.

http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/06/images-from-catskill-600k.html



On Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:15:56 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

Or, the GB Lierre. That looks like it has a thicker tread on it than the Hetre.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/07/2014 01:56 PM, Iron Rider wrote:

I had a sidewall blowout on my Grand Bois Lierres. I won't be buying those again.

http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/06/images-from-catskill-600k.html

What do you think cut that sidewall?

[Eric Norris]

Do you think this would have worked?

http://www.parktool.com/product/emergency-tire-boot-tb-2 

I carry one, but I’ve never used it.

--Eric Norris
Email: campyo...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy

[ted]

I once sliced the sidewall of a continental gator skin tubular, and I won't be buying any gator skin tires (tubulars or clinchers) again. I have had just as good flat avoidance with nicer riding tires like the Grand Bois lines. In my experience flat protection short of really thick tread and/or sub tread latex seems overrated.

[Hugh Smitham]

Michael,

That's a good idea. Though Cyclotourist asked for the tire to boot it I imagine and city ride it? I was still considering what to do with the tire and I really like your idea. We'll see.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[cyclotourist]

A boot ready for it!

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[Iron Rider]

In my opinion, the sidewall was not cut. It appears to have delaminated. The fibers are layered in cross hatch pattern and the layers separated allowing the blowout to occur. There was no brake contact with the side wall and no sign of any abrasion or cutting of the sidewall. The blowout was not preceded by any unusual impact and (in hindsight) the delamination occurred over several miles. (Speaking of which, the incident taught me that if a tire starts to develop a once a rotation thump. Stop immediately and find the cause.)

On a related point, one concern with riding a 650 B tire is that it is not a standard size and is therefore hard if not impossible to replace on the road. If this were a 26" or 700C any bike shop or sporting good store could provide a (temporary) replacement but with 650B that is not an option. Since this occurred I swiched to SOMA B (with Kevlar) and carry a tire patch. No tire is slower than a tire with a blown sidewall.

[Iron Rider]

Another rider gave me one of those and it worked initially. I added the duct tape when I saw slight bulge develop and did not want to risk another blowout because I did not have another boot and I have over one hundred miles left to ride.

I now carry a couple just in case.

[Michael]

@ ironrider:

 

 

Feasable to carry a spare folding tire, just in case, on these types of long rides? Or are these problems too rare to worry about it?

[Kieran J]

Many have noted that using a 26" tube for a 650b tire is pretty common and entirely functional. 650b-specific tubes are ideal, but certainly not necessary.

 

Since 26" tires are the most common of all, I would say it's quite possible to mitigate tire issues by either carrying a 26er with you or finding one en route.

 

KJ

[Bill Lindsay]

Kieran

Iron Rider is specifically talking about the case where you have a non-repairable tire sidewall blowout on 650B.  Since very few bike shops and zero sporting goods stores sell 650B tires, Iron Rider is making the point that you might be hosed in that situation.  

It's partially true with spokes, too.  If you break a spoke on a 650B wheel, most bike shops don't have that length on the shelf.  Many shops can make a spoke, but they can't make a tire.  

The clear advice is that all mechanical failures should be scheduled to occur within ~100ft of the front door of a bicycle shop that is open for business.  You're welcome!  ;-)

[Bruce Herbitter]

I've never had a blow out or a gash severe enough to warrant a tire
boot. Regardless of what size tire you ride, the chances of encountering
difficulty within 100 of an open bike shop are small, despite Bill's
sage advice. I carry a cell phone for emergency extractions when the LZ
gets too hot. Err, when I can't come up with some kind of hack or fix to
limp home on. Having gone totally away from 700 to 650B, it's just never
been a problem.



On 1/8/2014 1:40 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> ....clear advice is that all mechanical failures should be scheduled

[Hugh Smitham]

Ha! That's funny Bill. I'll try to plan that out;-) It's a good point that Ironrider makes and I for one will start travelling with tire/boot patches and for long trips a fordable replacement. I imagine as the 650b size becomes more popular then bike stores will carry more selection. 

On the point about spokes, I was pricing out components to build a 650b wheel set and it seems that there are no 650b spokes available? Which size spoke do you use for a 650b build? Maybe once I read the answer it'll be a duh moment. 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

--

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Well, the Kevlar FiberFix emergency spoke -- http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=707 -- should solve the 650B spoke problem.  Unless they don’t work (I carry them, but have never had to use one).  But Sheldon says they work, so they must. 

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I always use a spoke length calculator, Hugh, using the specific rim and hub I’m using.  Señor Tinker has a link to a good one on his page.  http://www.biketinker.com/

 

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Smitham
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 2:55 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres are done.The search continues.

 

Ha! That's funny Bill. I'll try to plan that out;-) It's a good point that Ironrider makes and I for one will start travelling with tire/boot patches and for long trips a fordable replacement. I imagine as the 650b size becomes more popular then bike stores will carry more selection. 

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[Bill Lindsay]

"On the point about spokes, I was pricing out components to build a 650b wheel set and it seems that there are no 650b spokes available? Which size spoke do you use for a 650b build? Maybe once I read the answer it'll be a duh moment. "

650B spokes are a little longer than spokes for 26" wheels and a little shorter than spokes for 700c wheels.  ;-)  

Many common patterns require spokes in the ~285mm range.  Shops have stuff in the 296-302 range for 700c, and stuff in the 260-270 range for 26".  Better shops have the Phil spoke cutter, and can make you one spoke.  Riders who like to "be prepared" often carry a driveside rear, since that's usually the one that breaks and is often only a mm or two short for everywhere else.  Or the emergency repair spokes can work for anything.  

When I've built my own 650B wheels, I bought spokes from Rich Lesnik.  For light rims, like the PL23, I leave it to a pro.  Rich or Mike Varley.  

[Kieran J]

Yeah, not sure what the heck I was on about there. Just take the keyboard away from me. Or maybe I need new glasses ..

 

KJ

[Metin Uz]

I don't see how the duct tape helps wrapped on the outside. I was expecting to see a picture showing the tape INSIDE the tire, using the tire pressure and effectively creating a tire boot.

--Metin

[Iron Rider]

Yes and yes. It is feasible and I do now carry a spare folding tire (SOMA B)  which I hope is for a problem that is too rare to worry about. I justify carrying the "extra weight" by switiching both tire and tube when there is a flat which save a good several minutes and allows me to repair the flat and check for the item that caused it after the ride is done. If I have to change a flat in the dark, cold or rain or all of the above, swapping out everything and dealing with it later is the way to go.

[Iron Rider]

The fix was actually a multi-layered set up. Between the tube and the tire I used a Park Took tire patch. However, after an hour or so it began to bulge a bit so I wrapped the whole shebang in duct tape and unnattached the rim brake. The duct tape really seemed to  keep the bulge from growing and I rode a century on the MacGyvered repair.