Bosco Bullmoose Bars

[Deacon Patrick]

I’d love to hear from someone who rides a lot of trails, especially with roots, rocks, snug tree gaps twists, and the like, how they ride. How do they climb? How big a difference does the solidness make in torque when climbing/maneuvering over/around obstacles and when descending with weight back on the bars at the brakes? How are they for long mellow parts? Any comparisons with the Albatross are appreciated as well.

My sole issue with the Albatross is the feeling that when I pull on the bars or absorb a bump with elbow bend that they don’t feel as solid as I would like. I love every other aspect of them, so hate to save to try a new cockpit if I’m loosing something in the process.

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.OurHolyConception.org

[justin...@gmail.com]

Interestingly enough I took a ride out to the deli and back on my Lady's bike tonight which I had just installed Albas onto. I was surprised at the amount of flex. I'm 190 and do Crossfit but I'm not that strong! I'm not sure if these are the CrMo or Alloy ones but it definitely had me worried. I can see the Bullmooseyness adding more stability.

-J

[Liesl]

Hey Patrick! I'm a convert to the boscos and the new custom has bull moose boscos. I'm wee, and even I notice a difference. The boscos have so much lever-power that the bullmoose version is really great. Angle is good, too. I really prefer them over alba's which I've just never warmed up to.

Liesl

[DS]

I'm really interested in responses to this as well as I'm really on the fence about which bars to use on my Hunq build (still a few months before delivery). Nothing to add, just want to get replies in my inbox.

[Peter Morgano]

I have had albas regular Boscos and now the bull moose bars. They definitely give me more power and stiffness when climbing, a really solid feeling.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[René Sterental]

After having several flavors of the Bosco bars and really liking them for many reasons, I went back to the traditional Bullmoose bars on my Hunqapillar, but raised them as high as feasible. I like this setup even more. With the Boscos, my hands kept hurting and when riding rough terrain, I would find myself having to grip the bars very tightly (I don't think the reverse levers helped in this regard) to provent my hands from sliding forward. This created some tendinitis and hand pain that took a long time to go away.

The higher standard Bullmoose bars take care of my neck and hand pain, and I feel I have much better control of the bike now. 

René 

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm glad you mentioned the standard bullmoose, René. Thank you. My favorite position on the Albatross is the outer curve, but I have no brakes there, so I have to ride the handles on the downhills. It seems I could well end up with the same issue with the Bosco's. How are the standard bullmoose for long days in the saddle? (5-8 hours.)

With abandon,

Patrick 

[Deacon Patrick]

Huh. I talked myself into trying my brakes so they will work in my favorite position on the Albatross. That has the benefit of having a lot less play as it is in the curves. One day soon...

With abandon,

Patrick

[Shoji Takahashi]

Sounds like you should consider albastache, too. Sorry to add to the choices! I think Christopher Chen moved from Noodles to Albatross to Albastache on his Hilsen, and he mentioned being out on the albatross curves a lot.

I have the "standard" bullmoose and switch between it and the Noodles. I like the bullmoose-- very stable and lots of leverage. I have the albatross on my cross check set up as a cruiser. With my hands on the ends, I can sometimes pull/rotate 'em in the stem (particularly when it's raining out). You won't get that with the bullmoose.

I think the bullmoose is great for technical, because you can point the wheel precisely where you want. (Though it's w i d e, which might be a problem on narrower trails.) They're comfortable for a time, and you can move your hands along the wide sweep... but it's not the same as having different hand positions on the albatross or drops (or moustache, which I also have).

Good luck Patrick! 

[Ron Mc]

I remain a fan of the original Nitto moustache, but can see advantages to the slightly wider, slightly shallower Albastache. 

[Coconutbill]

like tires, each one has its application.

the bosco bullmoose will be at home on your Hunq. 

[Deacon Patrick]

This morning I tried shifted the brakes to the middle and test rode them. Then I flipped the Albatross bars (everything drops about 4" that way, not sure I like that much drop). I'm going to ride it this way, possibly flip them back and ride that way for a while. Thanks to physics, there is a LOT less play when I'm in the drops and it is wonderful having the brakes in the drops. I'll see which side up I prefer the Albatross bars.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Eric Daume]

For mountain biking, I find myself moving wider and wider. For my primary off road machine ( a Krampus) I have a ~700mm wide riser. 

Coming from an Alba, I would take a look at a Surly Open Bar. Kind of the same bends, but wider and I'm guessing stiffer (it's steel)

Eric Daume

[Deacon Patrick]

Interestingly, Riv told me the aluminum bar is stiffer than the steel (I have the steel). That surprised me. Maybe it's the vertigo thing, but I'm not convinced wider is better for me on the trial. I much prefer the wide part of the drops to the long levers of the handles, where every wee motion is translated. In the hooks, only my intentions get carried out. I like that. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Played around with it more today. Inverted albatross is too low, but I learned a few things about tilt and height that are helping. Having returned to the upright position, I dropped the stem a few inches and tilted the albas so the handlebars are almost flat, lowering the hooks.

It really is amazing how much of the new bike excitement there is in ripping apart the handlebar tape and cork grips and viewing it all as liquid again. I am excited for my next longer ride and getting to tweak.

Another thing that struck me is how much more decisive I am. In the first year, any little change and I had to ride it for 70 or so miles before knowing if I liked it or not. I imagine part of that was the learning curve of sorting out the vertigo "noise" from seat and bar positions. I also imagine there is a muscle memory that tells me much faster what I like and don't like, even though I don't "remember" it myself (if that makes any sense). It is good to play with the set up now and again, even if you end up right back where you started -- you're still somewhere new, with new knowledge.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Ron Mc]

Deac, you're correct - aluminum bars will be stiffer than steel

[Deacon Patrick]

What I am learning is that while I like an occasional upright/back hand grip, I prefer being forward, and wide for climbing and descending (and having access to the brakes from the "hoods." I'm thinking the forward position on the Albatross is too narrow. 

So, my current list of questions is:

Can you Bosco Bullmoose riders help me understand what the brake options and forward/wide grip options feel like?

Standard Bullmoose riders: how are the bars for flatter stretches (which is when I like to sit back/upright)? They look ideal for the climbs/descents. Ideas for attachments to add a "cruising" position?

Albastache riders: how wide are the hooks, especially in comparison to the Albatross hooks?

Anyone have a link to the handlebar comparison photo from the catalog? Mine is elsewhere since my hobbit hole got reconstructed.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Patrick,

Here's Olivier's overlay of the h-bars (also seen in the most recent Riv catalog):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/olipop/8915626620/

Standard bullmoose doesn't get you into a forward position with control. You can grab the forward-most point and tuck, but that's more for aerotucking.. not technical riding.

Takashi has standard bullmoose with the knobs to lean onto-- seems like a good addition for longer rides. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/8626592972/

Based on your description, I'd recommend the moustache/albastache. (I haven't tried albastache but do have and like the moustache. It's a forward for climbing and descending grip with brakes within reach. If you're cruising and want to sit up, do so by grabbing the ends.)

best, shoji

[cyclotourist]

I'm quite the fan out Moustache bars. They're great off-road as they let you put your hands & weight forward while giving you that good braking position. Mimics the position regular straight or riser MTB bars offer. 

While I enjoyed Albas off-road as well, my hands got a lot more tired having to hold the bars out on the sides where the brakes were. 

I've ended up keeping the Ms on my bike as they meet just about all my needs.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

--

[René Sterental]

Hi Patrick,

I don't ride for so long (yet) or lean forward as much (hardly at all, probably), so it's hard for me to give you realistic feedback. I liked the ends of the Bosco bars for very upright riding and the top curves for faster riding, and went with reverse levers to keep the whole top of the bars clean to allow my hands to go anywhere. The problem was in rough(er) descents, when I'd find myself having to grab the bars so tightly in order not to slip forward, that I developed tennis elbow and hand pain that took a long time to go away. The reverse levers didn't help at all in this matter, in fact, made it worse. For regular slow street riding, it was all fine.

The regular Bullmoose bars at their highest, make them incredibly comfortable on my Hunqapillar; I used to ride them a lot lower and found my hands would hurt. At the maximum height, they're very comfortable for me. I'm also using the Portland Design Works Ergo Whiskey Grips that provide a flat area to rest my hands. I can move my hands along the top of the bar as well.

Based on your descriptions, I concur with the recommendation for you to try the Albastaches. Not sure the standard Bullmoose bars will allow you to get low and long.

René 

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, René! I concur with your experience of the Boscos. I rediscovered that my wife's bars are the narrower Boscos, so I put them on yesterday. I was surprised how far back they come (too much for me). and I couldn't figure a way to feel a good grip for the rough stuff.

You may have seen the WTB thread for Albastache and bullmoose bars. I realized the only way to know is to try them and see how it goes. Conceptually, it's a neck and neck between all three (including the Albatross). Each has it's strong suits and challenges, and I just have to learn them through experience to see which suits me best.

With abandon,

Patrick

[casey]

I ride a Simpleone on fairly rough trails quite a lot. I have used the Soma Sparrow bar with a lot of success, however I seam to like my hands more vertical, like in the drops. I am in love with the look of the Albatross bars. They just seem to be the perfect shape. Not being able to brake from the front of the bar, my go to when climbing,leaves my hands with out much to brace against at high speeds on rough trails. Not a deal breaker but it makes me question them every time. Having my hands shaken from the bars is less than inspiring. Porter bars seem to have all the same issues, good and bad. The mustache bar , I really want to like them, never seems right to me, maybe because of the palms down position while on the brakes. Same is true for me with flat bars. Normalish drops always seem an odd angle for my shoulders, leaving me feel not as in control on rough trails at speed. Currently riding the On One Midge dirt drop bar. Almost always in the drop position. Supreme control, for me, on even the roughest and fastest of any trail. One finger braking and a general oneness with the bike no matter what. On the road they seem a little wide, however I am stronger climbing hills with these bars then anything else I have tried. They truly make my bike better for me in all situations. Hope this is of some use for you. Casey.

[Deacon Patrick]

David (and anyone else who uses moustache or albastache bars for more technical single track (rocky, rooted, steep), Could you tell me more, comparing the two bars if possible? As you describe David, the albatross are great for roads, but they're not designed to have the brakes up front, where I want to be for descents. In particular, hand comfort in the curves, difference in feel of the width, and stem recommendations for the albastaches (I know the dirt drop stem makes sense for the moustache). Thanks!

If it makes a difference, I'm fairly broad shouldered.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Philip Williamson]

I love flared off-road drops for exactly the reasons you mention.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Deacon Patrick]

Casey and Philip,

You have me intrigued with the flared off-road drops. For the Sparrow and wood chipper and On One Midge, is the cruising position in the flats on top, as on a road bike? Do they take road levers? What is the difference with different types of aluminum?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Philip Williamson]

Hi Patrick,
I'm glad you asked me that! :^)
I don't know about the Sparrow, but I have two widths of Woodchipper, a Midge, and an original WTB bar.
The tops on the Midge and WTB are pretty narrow, so I cruise on the hoods. My Woodchipper bike has the bars set a couple (few) inches above the saddle, so the hooks are the most comfortable position.
They all take road levers, and if you use V brakes instead of cantis, you'll need some Dia-Compe 287V levers, or the Tektro V levers. They're both inexpensive as levers go.
The wide Woodchippers are WIDE, especially with bar end shifters in. They're 31.8s so they are stiffer than the other bars. The difference in 'give' between the hooks and ends is noticeable, and if that causes discombobulation, I'd cut them down.
The narrower WCs are good, and have a normal (in this circle) clamp size. The tops are wide enough to use while climbing.
Midges have a short extension, well suited to bar end shifters. They well work for me, but I've gotten more used to the Woodchippers.
WTB bars are no longer available new, but I like them the best.
It may be hard to find any of these bars in silver, and with a smaller clamp size. If you find you dislike one, I think you'll dislike them all. If you like the feel, then there are subtle differences between the models.
Matt Chester has a good article on setting up Dirt Drop bars on 63xc.com, and Guitar Ted is a great resource for reviews.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[cyclotourist]

The braking position is precisely why I like the M bars. It's similar to that of mountain bike bars, which lets you brace your weight, grab the brakes, and have control while going downhill. The Albas don't offer that braking option. When braking w/ Albas, you are not able to brace your weight while descending. Plenty of people use Albas off road and live to tell the tale, but I prefer the braking position of the Ms. 

Off-road drops are a whole other consideration, and Philip covers that pretty well. I've have tried just about every one of the options he mentions, but find that I always come back to the Moustache Bars. For me they offer more options. 

I like cruising on the outboard position the most, but when I get to a technical section, having those brakes at hand can't be beat.

If I didn't mention it, here are some pics of the different positions: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/sets/72157605369032545

[John Philip]

Here's a pic where you can see both the Woodchipper and the Midge. I like them both.  For me, all day comfort on the Woodchipper  and great control on the trails with the Midge. https://www.flickr.com/photos/cnyriv/9477366535/in/set-72157635006896939 

[Jeff Ong]

I have Midge bars and Sparrow bars, and they're very different animals. The Midges feel like flared drops, with several usable hand positions, and they take road brake levers and bar-end shifters. The Sparrows really only have one hand position, at the ends, and are more like Dove or Albatross bars. I have them set up with old XT thumbshifters, and while they're comfortable, I wouldn't use them for singletrack riding. I can't really lift the front wheel when riding that bike. When I ride singletrack with the Midge, I invariably find myself switching to deep in the hooks, to get the most leverage and to shift my body weight forward. For general riding, I'm on the shoulders of the Midge bars, and typically braking with my thumbs on the interrupter levers I've got a couple inches out from the stem.

Just my 2 cents!

[Deacon Patrick]

Thank you, Philip, John, and Dave! Very helpful. 

With abandon,

Patrick

[Dave Redmon]

Have you tried turning your Albatross bars upside down?  I like my brake levers mounted in the hooks for greater control--especially going downhill. Reminds me of my old Moustache bars, which I dearly loved, except the Albas let me sit upright a bit when I choose to.

Dave in Kansas

[Jim D Massachusetts]

I also found this thread very helpful. The pictures were great. Thank you all for the effort.                   Jim D         Massachusetts

[casey]

The Sparrow bar takes mountain bike levers. I like to angle the bar ends down. Typically I go to the narrow front bend for climbing, this works well for me. The dirt drops have road levers. Road levers never feel right in my hands, so I seldom ride on the hoods. The center section is okay but not a favorite of mine. The hooks, being angled down towards the rear drop outs, are where I stay. This also allows for one finger braking while maintaining great control on the bars. The hooks also give me the most power for climbing on the road. Handle bars are fun to play with. There is no right one, just the one that works best for you. Have fun! Casey

[Deacon Patrick]

For you experienced dirt drop bar folks, what stem do you run (if possible in contrast with an Albatross bar)? I have the Tallux 12 cm with my Albas now. A different tread for road bikes suggested Alba and noodles may be the same stem, so I was planning on starting there and seeing how it goes.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Dave Redmon]

I used the 80mm Dirt Drop stem with my Dirt Drop h'bars. Used the same stem later on with my Moustache bars on the same bike.

Dave

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/eT4K-KjilKE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[John Philip]

Tallux 12 with Alba.  Dirt drop 10 with both Midge and Woodchipper.