Single-Chainring Drivetrains

[HunqRider]

Wondering if anyone is thinking about converting their Rivendell over to a simple 1x drivetrain configuration (single chainring).  I did this last year, and it has made riding a whole lot simpler and fun. 

 

I will detail my experiences, which hopefully will be useful to others thinking about making the change.

 

My original drivetrain configuration was:

Hunqapillar (54 cm frame)

113mm Bottom bracket

Sugino XD2 crankset (double)

34 and 48 tooth chainrings

8-speed cassette (12-32 tooth)

 

To make the change over to the 1x drivetrain, I figured I would just take off the outer chainring and replace with 5 washers of similar thickness.  There was a problem though; the “nut” part of the chainring bolts were too long, so had to get some shorter ones.  My LBS sold ones that were designed for single speed cranks from a company named “Problem Solvers”; these ended up working fine, though I ended up having to use the old longer crankset “bolts” with my new shorter “nuts”. 

 

I took off the front derailer, and went out on a few rides.  Everything was fine, except that when doing fast shifts over to the small cassette cogs, the chain would sometimes fall off the chainring to the outside.  So I installed a Paul Components Chain Keeper.  This device mounts onto the seat tube where the front derailler would normally be, and it covers both the inside and outside of the chain. This worked only ‘OK’ for me.  I believe that it is designed for 9- or 10-speed chain thicknesses, so my 8-speed chain was a tight fit.  I had to play with it a lot to get it in the perfect position, and even then, it would slightly rub on the chain, especially when riding hard “out of the saddle” which would create chainring flex.  So I had to find a new solution.

 

My new solution was to cover both sides of the chain independently.  For the inside, I used an N-Gear Jump Stop.  I haven’t ever had any issues with the chain falling off to the inside, but the Jump Stop gives me piece of mind.  For the outside, I installed a bashguard.  I don’t think that just any bashguard will do, it needs to be as thin and small as possible.  Here’s why:  I never changed my bottom bracket, so the chainring is not perfectly centered on the cassette cogs.  Ideally, I probably should have installed a slightly longer bottom bracket to get better chainline, but in my setup, when “cross-chained” from the 34t chainring to the small 12t cog, the chain has a bit of an angle, and a big bashguard would rub.  So I put on a ‘SuperLight’ Bashguard from BBG bashguards, size 36 (just slightly bigger than the chainring).  This bashguard is half the thickness of a chainring.  I then used washers inside the bashguard, to get it just a bit further away from the chain.  This has worked great; no rubbing, and no drops of the chain under any conditions so far.

 

Can you just leave the front derailler in place, instead of messing round with these chain protectors?  Probably, but then you would have still have to be ‘trimming’ the derailler using your left hand to prevent rubbing.  In my setup, the left hand does nothing except braking now.

 

One other thing I did was take a few links out of the chain, since it never leaves the 34t chainring (it used to have to be long enough to accommodate the 48t chainring).

 

The experience has been fun, I don’t see myself returning to a multi-chainring setup anytime soon. In my smallest gearing (34t chainring & 32t cog), it is doable to climb most hills, and in my top gearing (12t cog), it is fast enough for all the flats and moderate descents.  On steep descents, I do find that it will “spin out”, but that usually just tells me that I’m going fast enough for my own safety, no need to go faster by pedaling.

 

I hope that this is helpful to anyone thinking about making the switch to 1x this year.

[Jon Doyle]

To get more tension from the RD and fewer chain drops try adjusting the RD's spring. See step 7: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailleur-overhaul

Jon

Watertown, MA

[HunqRider]

Jon,

Thanks for the advice!  I did not know about that tension adjustment hole in the rear derailler.  My setup is dialed in perfectly right now, but if the chain gets slack over time, it's nice to know that I can adjust the RD spring tension instead of messing with the chain length.

[Sine Wave]

Check out the Wolf Tooth chainrings; they're designed specifically to work with 1xX drive trains and supposedly obviate the need for any sort of chain keeper. I haven't used one but I am planning on on getting one. And they make them for 110bcd cranks. Also, the shimano shadow plus RD would be worth looking into. You would have to go with a 10 speed setup for that though I think. But you would gain more ratios for the bottom and top end.

[Philip Williamson]

I was looking at these, too. Apparently the thick/thin chainrings are the new thing. I could go with a 1x9 for a bike... 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Jim Bronson]

You can get BB spacers to adjust the chainline if you don't want to buy a new BB.

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[blakcloud]

When I was at NAHBS SRAM was showing off their new 1 X 11 cyclocross group set. It looks very promising. Now if I could get a thumb shifter with this set up it might work really well for me.

[Deacon Patrick]

This intrigues me. I'm getting frustrated with the complexity of my triple, and essentially my big ring is my ring guard. I got lost in the technical jargon though. Could you please explain things to a dummy (because you would be. Grin.)? I currently have the  Sugino XD2 Crank, Triple 46x36x24. and would love to drop the 46 and have someone a bit larger than the 36 for my big ring, plus a real ring guard.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Matthew J]

Most gears I have are 1x5.  Could not be happier.

[Tim Gavin]

Patrick:  

Rivendell can help you with your cranky desires.   :)

Ring guard.

Chainrings in 40t, or in 43 and 45.

If you change your triple to a double + ring guard, then you should tighten the "H" screw on your front derailer to limit its range to the two chain rings.

Cheers,

Tim Gavin

Cedar Rapids, IA  USA

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/24/2014 05:30 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> This intrigues me. I'm getting frustrated with the complexity of my
> triple, and essentially my big ring is my ring guard. I got lost in
> the technical jargon though. Could you please explain things to a
> dummy (because you would be. Grin.)? I currently have the Sugino XD2
> Crank, Triple 46x36x24. and would love to drop the 46 and have someone
> a bit larger than the 36 for my big ring, plus a real ring guard.

Using a 24/36/46 triple is simplicity itself. For riding on level to
slighly uphill terrain, stay on the 46. When you run out of gears and
need to downshift (i.e., when you are on the next to largest rear
sprocket and need something still lower) shift to the 36. You may need
to simultaneously upshift one or perhaps 2 in back if the gear you get
is too low, or you could just wait a few seconds to let inertia have its
way.
About the only time you'll need to think about the 24 is on grades over
10%. At that point, go to the granny, and possibly if the gear is too
low upshift one or perhaps 2 in back to get to a proper gear. There's
nothing at all complex about that.

Some notes on the 24: use it with the 3 or at most 4 largest
sprockets. Anything beyond that and you're overlapping with the range
of the 36 and unless you can see there's even steeper terrain looming
ahead (making it desirable to stay on the granny) shift to the 36 and
downshift as necessary in back to get to the proper gear. You don't
want to ride on the 24 any more than you need to, because wear is much
greater on the smaller chain ring than on the larger.

Likewise, if you are on the 36 and you find you are in any of the 3
smallest sprockets in back, upshift to the 46 and downshift one or two
in back to get back to the right gear.

[Deacon Patrick]

Oh, I understand that about the triple. But I would prefer to get rid of the cross over. The riding I do is mostly in the 24, but then there are sections of flat and down where pedaling is needed at higher speeds. I'd prefer to simplify things. I spoke with Riv, and it's not too bad to shift things around to a 40-24 set up. I'm going to give that a go.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/24/2014 06:18 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> Oh, I understand that about the triple. But I would prefer to get rid
> of the cross over. The riding I do is mostly in the 24, but then there
> are sections of flat and down where pedaling is needed at higher
> speeds. I'd prefer to simplify things. I spoke with Riv, and it's not
> too bad to shift things around to a 40-24 set up. I'm going to give
> that a go.

Before you do, you might want to plot the gearing on Sheldon's gear
chart. Crossing over on a wide range double can be a real issue: unlike
the one or two you need to adjust in back, with a wide range double you
may have to shift 4 or 5 sprockets in back.

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Steve. Maybe I'm using "cross over" incorrectly. I mean the issue where you don't want to use your small gears when you're in your small front ring and vice-versa for the big cog. I'm fine with shifting down or up five gears when I shift the front one.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Dave Johnston]

Patrick,
I can highly recommend a double using your Sugino crank and only the middle and inner positions.

I am using a BBG Guard-42t-28t on an old XTR 110/74 crank with a wide range 11-34t on a Rawland rSogn (see picture) and another bike with a BBG-40t-26t on a Sugino XD2 crank as the drivetrain on a 650b commuter conversion and really like the result. I basically stay in the middle front ring 95% of the time, but I live in flat country where the hills are less than a 1/2 mile long.

For the 42t I am using a ramped and pinned TA ring and on the 40t its a Sugino flat ring with no ramps. Both shift great with a friction downtube shifter.

The outer guard is made by BBG and the price is great on those.For a shifting setup I would go one size larger than they recommend. (aka get a 44t guard for a 42t ring)

- Dave Johnston

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Dave. Would you mind elaborating on what you love about the wide range double? I realize we ride different surfaces and terrain, but I am trying to understand the experiential difference. Can I use all the gears in each?

With abandon,

Patrick

[dougP]

Patrick:

In addition to Steve's mention of the wear factor on the 24, another good reason to shift up as soon as you're over the top of a climb is to avoid chain slap / fall-off.  It's easy to just shift up 2-3 cogs in back while leaving the front on the granny.  The chain can be pretty slack under those conditions, and a good bump can drop the chain off the granny.

dougP

[Deacon Patrick]

Except for the price tag, the 11x1 drivetrains sure look attractive. Thank you all for helping me explore the pros and cons of a wide range double.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/24/2014 09:53 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> Except for the price tag, the 11x1 drivetrains sure look attractive.
>

However, chain angularity doesn't look too good for such drivetrains;
what's more, the range isn't as good as you can get with two chain rings.

Honestly, it's not like chain ring shifts are all that hard.

[Steve Palincsar]

No, you do not want to use the big front/big rear and small front/small
rear combinations.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/24/2014 07:53 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> Thanks, Steve. Maybe I'm using "cross over" incorrectly. I mean the
> issue where you don't want to use your small gears when you're in your
> small front ring and vice-versa for the big cog. I'm fine with
> shifting down or up five gears when I shift the front one.

"Crossing over" means shifting from one chain ring to the other. Small
front/small rear and large front/large rear combinations are what's
known as "cross chaining". You definitely want to avoid cross
chaining. Not only does the chain run at an extreme angle, which
exacerbates wear, but often the chain can contact the other chain ring.
One big reason for having two chain rings is so that you can avoid
extreme angles; another is that you can extend the range and have higher
high and lower low gears than you can on a single chain ring.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Patrick,

I changed my 26/36/46 to 26/40/bashguard last year. It was easy to do and I couldn't be happier with it. All that was required was to remove the middle and outer chainrings and install the new ones. No messing around with BB, FD or anything else.

In fact, I liked not shifting in front so much that I went to a single cog in back too. Sounds like that wouldn't work for the terrrain you ride in though.

Jay

[Sine Wave]

I agree. In fact, I only have one gear. But I was just throwing out options for those who want more. 

On Monday, March 24, 2014, Matthew J <matth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most gears I have are 1x5.  Could not be happier.

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[Sine Wave]

Of course, if one goes with a 10 speed+ setup, the shifters will have to be changed  as well. And I'm guessing the angle of the chainstays on the Hunqapillar with 135 spacing will require a BB change if using a larger single chainring. (Sorry.. using a tablet and stray contact with the screen caused a premature "send". Lol. 

On Monday, March 24, 2014, Sine Wave <sinew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Of course, if one goes with a 10 speed+ setup, the shifters will have to be changed  as well. And I'm guessing the angle of the chainstays on the Hunqapillar with 135 spacing will require a BB change 

--

[Deacon Patrick]

Ok. So I'm now caught up. I understand the cost and how to shift to a double 40-24. What range could I get if I wanted to go single ring front and change the cassette (currently an 8 speed 11-32), without changing shifters to get the maximum range out of a 24 or 26 ring up front? I have Silver SOS thumb shifters. Can they handle a 10 speed cassette?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

I found expander sprocket for a 10-speed cassette: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-t-rex-expander-sprocket/rp-prod119003 which then gives an 11-40 range. Will a 10-speed cassette require different shifters, derailure, etc?

RIv. sells the 9-speed cassette (for $50) that is 12-36. Does moving to a 9 from an 8 require a change in drivetrain parts, or is it interchangeable (I know I'd need a new chain). Anyone know of an expander sprocket for 9-speed?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Patrick,

I read through the thread, and I hope I understand what you're trying to do:

"The riding I do is mostly in the 24..."-- Is the 24T adequate? Is it too high or too low for your 8-spd 11-32 cassette? Do you spend your time mainly on the 11 or mainly on the 32 or in the middle (or maybe the terrain rolls so much that you shift through the entire cassette?).

Then you write "but then there are sections of flat and down where pedaling is needed at higher speeds."-- is this mainly in the 36T middle ring? (You mentioned that the 46T doesn't get much use.) Does the 36T with the 8-spd 11-32 offer a good range for your needs? On  those flats, do you spend a lot of time on the 11 and could use a larger front ring? 

If you got the standard Riv build, I'm guessing that you could switch from 8 to 9 without much pain. But, the IRD/Riv 8-spd is 12-34 and may just do the trick for you (compared to the 9-sp 12-36). Would the 36 rear serve you better than 34? Perhaps you could use a little more top end 11 vs 12 (8-spd 11-32 cassette)? 

Since it sounds like you're interested in changing the chainrings, would 40/24 be better than 36/24 (essentially the current state)? Maybe you'd be better served with something a little higher? 42/26? It would depend on what gears you use most.

Good luck!

Shoji

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Shoji. As I play with this more, It makes sense to me to take things one step at a time. I am thinking:

-- update cassette to 9-speed 12-36. This will allow me to ride most all the time in my middle chainring with my current 24/36/46 front chain rings. (You are right, I almost never use my 46). But that will be a huge improvement over currently having to shift all the time from small to middle front cogs on the steep rolling terrain. (my small rear cog needs replacing anyway, and I just confirmed with Riv that going to 9 speed from 8 is easy.

-- Based on what I learn riding that, I can explore other options.

Sorry, HunqRider, for hijacking your thread. Your experience got my own brain cogs working -- always a dangerous thing! Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Bill Lindsay]

I think that 12-36 with a 26/40/chainguard in front would be perfect for you, Deacon

[Deacon Patrick]

Possibly, Bill. I'm going to see how I like riding the 36 front/36 rear and staying mostly in the middle front cog. To just the middle cog to a 40 means I lose that most often in the middle cog capability and I end up with the same issue I have now of often shifting between low and middle. I'm thinking the 2-36 cassette all was me to do what Steve suggested as an initial response to my question.

With abandon,

Patrick

[RoadieRyan]

Converted my Handsome Devil from a Sugino XD triple to a compact double to finally a single chain ring 1x9 set up 36t chain ring and 12-36t 9 speed cassette.  The gear inch range from 27.2 to 81.5 works well for hilly West Seattle and I have had so few issues with chain drops that the Paul chain keeper I bought for this set-up has never been mounted.  It probably helps that I am not pushing this bike to the limit, I am seldom out of the saddle, or doing rapid shifts, on the other hand I am not babying it either.   Love the simplicity of the 1x9 set up and don't see ever using a triple again, the closest I will get would be a 40x26t set up that Riv sells.

my .02 cents

[Montclair BobbyB]

Sorry, but I'm just not getting (or buying into) this 1x fad... AND I believe chain line is really important and cross-chaining IS bad, despite what some claim about their ridiculous 1x11 setups.  Someone please convince me otherwise.  WHAT is so awful about a front derailleur and a triple chain ring??? It provides all the gear range one could ever want, and enables maintaining a straighter chain line (no extreme cross-chaining!!)... The very thought of using the full range of rear cogs on a single front chain ring makes me cringe.  Now, perhaps a 1x3 (using only 3 centered cogs in the rear) makes more sense (but then you'd have only a 3 speed).  I like my 21 speeds, thank you.

I can almost understand if you're a racer, and front mis-shifts have cost you valuable time; then I suppose losing the front shifter may be worth the tradeoff.  Otherwise, I ain't gettin it...  That said, please feel free to send me your unwanted front derailleurs... 

Peace,

Bobby (feelin grinchy) Birmingham

[Jim Bronson]

I put the 12-36 on the tandem and we ride it 95% in the 40 middle ring.  

Since you're riding offroad, I would think the 36-36 combo would be plenty low for most situations.  If you have a gnarly grade to climb, then flog your granny ;)

I did have to change the derailer to work with the 36 btw.  I had some sort of Suntour long cage previously.  I first tried a M-592 Shadow type Deore but that didn't work on the derailer hanger the tandem has.  It did work with the M-591 non-shadow derailer and it shifts good with the Microshift brifters I have on the tandem.

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[Will]

Deacon,

Map out your most travelled route or routes with Google Pedometer/Earth (or similar). 

Extract an elevation profile.

Discuss those results with the folks at Riv. Or post links here... for discussion. 

Seems to me that establishing your vertical terrain challenges is the place to start.

Then you work out gears... 

I do not think a 1x10 setup is particularly useful. I can see a 1x5 (used to ride a Raleigh Tourist), but you're going to stress the rear der, the chain, and the rings, with a 1x10.

[George Schick]

Bobby - I agree with you for the most part.  The only reasons I converted one of my road bikes to a 1xSS are 1) the rails/trails MUPs around the area here are surfaced with compacted limestone "tailings" or "screenings" (the final remnant left over from when crushed limestone rock is "sifted" through various size screens [so the rocks can be sold in different sizes for driveways, riprap, etc]) and although it makes an OK surface to ride over for the most part, when the weather has been very dry for a while in mid-Summer it becomes extremely dusty making derailler drive trains a maintenance headache.  The single chainring/single cog of the 1xSS's make cleaning much easier and quicker.  And 2) the area around here is fairly flat so a rider can get by with one speed without a problem.  Other than those things, I see SS as mostly just a fad - maybe even a passing fad.

[Montclair BobbyB]

George:

Perhaps you might consider an internal-geared hub?   I am building up a 1x5 Spectro on an old mid-80s Rockhopper... simplicity, decent range, and low-maintenance.

BB  

[Edwin W]

I ride my Sam everywhere I go, which is mostly to and from work and around town, about 2000 miles a year. When I was building it up I got the 26/40/bashguard Sugino crank from Riv and an 11-28 (32?) 8 speed cassette. I delayed putting a front derailer on it until I saw my usage patterns. After a year I can see: I am in gears 5-7 95% of the time. I go up to 8 occasionally and grind in 1 or 2 occasionally on my rare long rides.

I have "stick" shifted into the granny front once on an insanely steep and long (for around here) hill last summer.

I had not thought about the stress on chain or rear derailer of the 40-28 combo, but I use it so rarely enough that I am not stressed. 

So far, the no front derailer, have a granny if I need it, basically 1x8 system is working.

Edwin in hilly, but not mountainous Nashville, where I mostly ride around town and near-in country.

[David Banzer]

I think it depends on the terrain one is riding. Here in Chicago, I know I will never need more than a single chainring and that using the larger cogs or smallest cog in the rear will be at a minimum. I understand concerns about cross-chaining, but I know that 99% of my riding will be within the middle 4 rear cogs. For me, a 1x8 setup works and it simplifies the drivetrain.
David
Flatter than flat Chicago

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 3:08:55 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote:

[HunqRider]

Bobby,

It's all about simplicity.  I used to ride a bike with all the different gears, a Garmin GPS to track my mileage and speed, a cadence meter, etc.  I just got sick of all that extra stuff.  On my new bike, I originally had the double chainrings, but I was never using the big ring, so it made sense to ditch it and go for the 1x8 setup; easier to keep clean, less to think about while riding.  Even now I hardly ever spend any time in the small cogs, so I'm not cross-chaining for a large % of my riding time.  If I lived in area that was flatter, I'd like to go with a single-speed, but alas, I need some gears for the hills.

[Scott Henry]

I think that for people who tend to ride bikes to the extent that they are on this list would be fairly well versed in bike maintenance.   Thus doing things like preventative maintenance shouldn't be that big of a deal.   I tend to install a new chain about once a year, I actually just ordered 2 for some weekend garage time.

I run my Handsome Speedy as a 1x (8or9 depending on the wheelset) and never care too much about cross chaining or anything else on it.  It might wear my chain a tad faster, but it is only going to be used for a season anyway.   $15 toss a new one on and forget it for another year.

I will be honest, and say that on my other multi-ring bikes I try not to crosschain, but that is another story.  For a 1x it just isnt really a big deal.  (to me)

Cheers,

Scott

Dayton, OH

--

[George Schick]

Just for grins, here's the 1x1 set up:

It's an old late 70's Fuji Finest that I restored, replaced the fork, repainted, and had a machinist friend take the teeth off the outer chainring so it could serve as a bash guard.  Then, I flipped the axle caps on the rear Phil hub to move everything over to the right a bit and reentered the rim.  It rides like a whisper.

[dougP]

"I run my Handsome Speedy as a 1x (8or9 depending on the wheelset) and never care too much about cross chaining or anything else on it.  It might wear my chain a tad faster, but it is only going to be used for a season anyway.   $15 toss a new one on and forget it for another year."

The concern about cross-chaining seems a bit overdone.  I don't hesitate to use all 8 cogs from the middle ring on my triple (I don't spend much time on the smaller ones but don't worry about it either).  Assuming a single ring set-up uses roughly the mid-position, there shouldn't be any issue with using the entire cogset.  I'll venture we spend over 90% of our time in the middle 4 or 5 or 6 cogs, and chains are pretty flexible. 

OTH, I don't use my big-big or granny-outer cog as those do create some pretty hairy chainline offsets. 

dougP

[Patrick Moore]

I agree with Doug. The middle rings of triples have for a long time been generally OK'd for all the rear cogs, and while adding #s10 and 11 have widened the cogset a bit, with the long stays that most listers have and with modern very flexible chains I agree it is largely a non-issue. 

And this comes from someone who deliberately sets up his drivetrains with the cruising gear or gears in the straight-chain positions.

My Fargo's 38/24 X 9 is basically a 1X9 with a granny ring for looks and conversation. (13-14-15-16-17-18-20-23-27, for 84" down to 41" -- perfectly good enough for my type of riding.

Patrick Moore, who in fact just rode it in the bosque using only the 64", the 68", and the 61", in that order.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:55 PM, dougP <doug...@cox.net> wrote:

The concern about cross-chaining seems a bit overdone.  I don't hesitate to use all 8 cogs from the middle ring on my triple (I don't spend much time on the smaller ones but don't worry about it either).  Assuming a single ring set-up uses roughly the mid-position, there shouldn't be any issue with using the entire cogset.  I'll venture we spend over 90% of our time in the middle 4 or 5 or 6 cogs, and chains are pretty flexible. 

OTH, I don't use my big-big or granny-outer cog as those do create some pretty hairy chainline offsets. 

dougP

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[Jim Bronson]

Regarding widening of the cogset, not all the 10/11 speed setups are wider.  Feel free to correct me here but this is my understanding:

Shimano's 11 is wider than their 7(+spacer)-8-9-10.  The 11 speed setup uses a different hub.  The 10 speed is no different than the 8 speed in total cassette width.  The actual gears and chain are smaller of course, as is the spacing between gears.

Campy uses the same hub setup for their 9-10-11 (don't know about 8).  Using the same hub architecture is probably one reason Campy was able to roll out 11 speed across their product line fairly quickly.  I assume the spacing and the chain must be smaller than the 10 since the hub is not any wider.

I don't know what SRAM's 11 speed offering is.

Anyway, carry on :)

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[Patrick Moore]

In my experience fiddling with these things, this is what I've found. All Shimano, since I've never used any other system (well, Am Classic 10 sp cassette, but it was designed for use on a Shimano hub).

7 speed is narrower than 8; the freehub body is a wee bit shorter.

8 and 9 are the same width; 9 speed spacers and, I daresay, 9 speed cogs are a wee bit narrower.

10 speed cassettes fit onto the 8/9 speed carrier but the are designed with a cutout to fit over the rear flange of this carrier, and thus extend a wee bit inward compared to the flush-ending 8s and 9s. (I daresay that the spacer and cogs are a wee bit narrower yet.

11 I don't know from, since I've never used one.

Thus from 5 to 6 to 7 to 8, the cassettes got a wee bit wider with each added cog. 8 to 9, the same overall width. 9 to 10, a wee bit wider.

Does anyone know from actual eyeball and hands-on measuring what the actual widths of 5 sp fws and 6, 7, 8/9, and 10 speed cassettes are? As much as a cm between 5 and 10? If so, that's not much for a modern, flexy chain on 44 cm chainstays.

As Grant replied once when I once fretted to him about wear and chain angle (I am paraphrasing his wordza wizdum): "If you are riding enough to cause considerably higher drivetrain wear at these angles, then count your blessings because you are riding a lot!?

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Jim Bronson <jim.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding widening of the cogset, not all the 10/11 speed setups are wider.  Feel free to correct me here but this is my understanding:

Shimano's 11 is wider than their 7(+spacer)-8-9-10.  The 11 speed setup uses a different hub.  The 10 speed is no different than the 8 speed in total cassette width.  The actual gears and chain are smaller of course, as is the spacing between gears.

Campy uses the same hub setup for their 9-10-11 (don't know about 8).  Using the same hub architecture is probably one reason Campy was able to roll out 11 speed across their product line fairly quickly.  I assume the spacing and the chain must be smaller than the 10 since the hub is not any wider.

I don't know what SRAM's 11 speed offering is.

Anyway, carry on :)

[Patrick Moore]

Note that a full cm in additional width between 5 and 10 would mean a total deflection to each side of only 5 mm.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

 As much as a cm between 5 and 10? 

[Tim Gavin]

C'mon, Patrick, you know where to find this info.

http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

AASHHTA!  (although it doesn't have 11 speed Shimano on there yet)

[Patrick Moore]

Of course, of course.

I note that there is a 1.1 mm difference between S 8 and 9. Is this spec or is it manufacturing tolerance?

So, between 5 and Shimano 10, 132 mm, or just shy of 7 mm of additional chain flex. Certainly not inconsiderable, but still, with modern chains and long stays, I don't think it's a huge issue, particularly if these cross chain gears are relatively little used.

[Tim Gavin]

Given the same chain, the wider cassettes would cause a tiny bit more "cross-flex".  Probably not worth worrying about.

However, the 9, 10, and 11 speed chains are increasingly thinner.  Internet response seems to feel that the thinner chains wear out dramatically sooner than a 6-7-8 speed chain.

[Philip Williamson]

I couldn't get my brain around you loving 5 speed internal gear hubs but hating a 1x setup because they lack a front derailleur... unless it's all about chainline. 

For me, after riding a fixed or dingle setup, having NINE GEARS to choose from is a crazy luxury. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:08:55 PM UTC-7, Montclair BobbyB wrote:

[Montclair BobbyB]

Philip:  It IS about chain line, but it's also in defense of the front derailleur, which to me is indispensible.

BB

[Dave Johnston]

Patrick asked me to elaborate on what I liked about a 42t-28t double set up. Sorry it took so long to respond. This thread is about a single chain ring setup and I haven't been able to mentally come up with a mathematical combination of a single chain ring and 8spd cassette that would really cover the range I want and put the cruising gears in a nice location. If I did go single I would give up the high end, or I would leave a granny in place, remove the FD and shift with a stick if desperate.

Previous to finding the BBG- 42-28 double setup, my preferred  gearing was a triple with a 48-38-26 in front and and a 12-28 or 13-30, 7s or 8s in back. Like Patrick I found  I rarely used the outer ring. My preferred cruising gear is around 64" so by moving up to a 42t in front and an 11-32t in the back my chain line was mostly centered for my cruising gears. My highest gear was ~100" (plenty for me) and for riding around these parts I rarely have to shift into the granny, so its like the simplicity of a single up front, but I still have the granny available if I go somewhere where there is an actually hill. I'm not used to actual hills so the granny becomes necessary if I ever leave town. I also really like having the guard as the outer ring. I've ripped up and stained many a pair of pants and ripped a few shoe laces out on those outer teeth.

PS: I tried a 46-32 and 12-28 combo for awhile and I hated it. That particular combo found me constantly shifting in the front and cross chaining to find my preferred cruising gears. Somebody who was a stronger cyclist or weaker cyclist or lived in rolling terrain might love it though. I think fitness and terrain play a big role in optimal gearing, so if you want to go non-stock this can be a real personal choice. It amazes me that bike shops sell the same gears to people who live in Illinois and Colorado. I grew up in Illinois where I didn't need a granny and only shifted to the big ring if I got a great tailwind.

David Johnston


On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:12:12 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Thanks, Dave. Would you mind elaborating on what you love about the wide range double? I realize we ride different surfaces and terrain, but I am trying to understand the experiential difference. Can I use all the gears in each?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks Dave!

With abandon,

Patrick

[ted]

When I lived in south east Mi. a long time ago, I had a bike with 44-52 chain rings and a 14-18 straight block. It was great. These days, living in the SF east Bay Area, I'm really pleased with 30-46 rings and a 9sp 11-32 cassette. I am convinced that the "right" gear setup is entirely dependent on the rider, type of riding, and terrain. The only thing I think approaches being universally "right" about gearing is the notion that having your typical cruising gear near the middle of the cassette is a good idea. Well that and whatever ideal is for you, lots of variations from it can still be perfectly serviceable.