New fat 700 tires! 700x42 ultra light

[Mark Reimer]

https://instagram.com/p/8mMR3jotbY/

Check out these new tires that just dropped from Soma! This is what I've been waiting for on my Atlantis, something like the 650x42 Compass tire but in 700. They've also got a 38mm version

[Kieran J]

These look great! Hopefully they won't be $80 a piece ..

What does "tubular casing" mean? Like, 'open tubular' aka clincher?

KJ

[Mark Reimer]

Yes, they are clinchers. Challenge uses the same terminology, which is a bit confusing at first. It typically means it's the same casing as used on their tubulars, which tends to be very supple and light

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/aEYyD3bnppc/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Kieran J]

I enjoy the little Japanese flag on the sidewall. Cute!

KJ

[mike gasparino]

I emailed them about ordering already. So excited. Are they supposed to drop this weekend?

[Mark Reimer]

Here's a close look at the treat pattern:

http://www.therubbishbin.net/post/130782119403

[Mitch Browne]

I'd guess $79.99 in the prevailing tire cartel price.

Rats, recently installed the Compass 700c x 38 Barlow Pass on my Atlantis. I like them but 42 is what I prefer.

[Mark Reimer]

Yeah me too. I have the 38's with less than 50km on them at this point but really wanted something closer to the rock n' road width, but light and slick. Snow is around the corner here anyway, I guess I can wait...

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Mitch Browne <mitch....@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd guess $79.99 in the prevailing tire cartel price.

Rats, recently installed the Compass 700c x 38 Barlow Pass on my Atlantis. I like them but 42 is what I prefer.

[Clayton.sf]

This is awesome! Now make a 45 or 48 too

[Bill Lindsay]

That's a smart move by Soma to jump into the gap that is currently not covered by Compass.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ron Mc]

I think it's smart for the whole industry to move in that direction.  Yesterday I met a roadie rolling 35mm tires.  

[John Phillips]

Has there been any mention yet about when these will be available for purchase?

John

On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 7:26:25 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:

[Mark Reimer]

On the Instagram post I think it mentioned that they'll be in the catalogue for ordering today

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

With Challenge, the open tubular means the tires are super flat. They're great when mounted, but a bit of a bear to get mounted!

[Mark Reimer]

"They're in stock as of this morning. They'll pop up on the store in a day or two, but savvy purchasers can call ahead and reserve some before the rabble cotton on." - distributed via Merry Sales exclusively for the time being. So visit your LBS and get them to call their Merry rep and you shoiuld be able to order them now. 

[Bill Lindsay]

If you forced me to order a Custom Rivendell today, I would order a roadish Riv with Roadeo tubing (the lightest GP is comfortable with using for me).  It would have a geometry almost identical to my 56cm Hillborne (135mm rear, cantilever brakes, single TT, sloping TT).  It would have Riv "batwing" fork tips and mid fork braze ons for an HAR or other lowrider front rack.  It would have clearances for these tires (700x42) plus fenders.  

It would be like a canti-Roadeo for fat tires.  Or a roadish Legolas.    

[Ron Mc]

the Challenge are also hand-glued tires.  I'm thinking the Somas will be vulcanized tires with fine casings.  If they're hand-glued, they would be pretty amazing tires, IMO.  

[Mark Reimer]

I'd be wary of hand glued. I"ve had at least 10 pairs of challenge CX tires and most of them had the tread peel off the casing in short order. Being active in the CX scene here, I've seen MANY other challenge tires fail from the tread coming off. Some times on the first ride. That might be a Challenge QC issue more so than the notion of hand-glued, but either way makes me nervous. I've never had any other tire do that. 

[Will]

I think that is the missing bike in Riv's lineup. Something roady with a reasonably compliant tubeset, spec'd for 50s plus fenders. The thing I'd add to your wish-list is wire guides on the right fork blade for a dynamo.

Speaking of dynamos... it'd be nice if Riv would develop a best-value light setup, like they've done for their build kits. Lights are so good now that it simply doesn't make sense to build a bike wthout them.

[Mark Reimer]

So basically the Elephant NFE frame, unless you were partial to 700c and canti brakes I guess. Pretty much what you're describing though, isn't it? But I guess with that trademark Riv-ish flair :)

[Rod Holland]

They did try with the C-Lines, but the Barlows showed up almost immediately thereafter. I ended up with a pair of each, along with a pair of Resist Nomads and a pair of Vittoria Randonneur Hypers. I'm not sure what came over me... Mounted the Barlows, and never looked back.

rod

[Rod Holland]

If you do that, order one for me, too...

rod

[Evan Baird]

How bout that there directional tread pattern eh?

[Ron Mc]

Don't want to derail the thread, and I've heard the Challenge complaints in 3 forums, but have never experienced the problem with Challenge tires on (and off) 5 bikes for up to 7 years and well over 10,000 miles.  Also Vittoria hand-glued tires, which are great, but have short rubber life.  

[Bill Lindsay]

I think the Elephant NFE looks like a fabulous bike that I would enjoy riding but not with this particular 700x42 tire.  The custom Rivendell I was describing was a road bike wrapped perfectly around this particular 700x42 tire that you introduced in your OP.  It wouldn't be the first time I bought a bike to fit a tire.  

If I bought an Elephant NFE, there are several nice tires I'd consider running on it. 

[hsmitham]

So yes!! I've been thinking on these same lines. I like the Elephant NFE but have heard even with the low trail fork there's some shimmy. Never ridden one myself. I love the idea of a bike with a light tube set capable of running 42mm+  CX & slick tires. I suppose some are calling it a monster cross. Just thinking about my ultimate adventure bike.

~Hugh 

[Mike Schiller]

Shimmy on an NFE?... I'd like to see that bike and how it's loaded/built.  My Matthews uses  similar tubing ( 8/5/8 OS) and geometry as the NFE and I don't get any shimmy at all. The NFE has a similar tubeset to  a Hilsen BTW.   So either they have too much weight up high or something else is going on.

back to original  subject... I'd love to try those tires on my Bantam. It was designed around 44 mm tires and fenders. Wonder it they are tubeless compatible? 

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

This was relayed to me second hand. But loaded in front too high I'll get shimmy on my Hilsen. I had some disbelief regarding the NFE and shimmy considering it has a low trail fork. Some more feedback is obviously required by other NFE owners.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

[William deRosset]

Dear Ron,

veering off-topic, but I've gone through thirty-five Parigi-Roubaix, Strada Blanca, and Eroica tires since 2008. None have delaminated. Their older (tubulars) had problems occasionally, as did Clement, FMB, and (rarely) Vittoria tubulars.

Best,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[Peter Adler]

Just by chance, I was stripping the tread off a dead Parigi-Roubaix yesterday, to recycle as sidewall patches/boots for other tires. Another rider on a group ride flatted out, and I shocked the crowd by producing not just a spare, but a nice spare (GB Cerf), so the rider could finish the route. A chunk of tread had come out of the contact point; the rider said he'd gotten about 1200 miles out of it.

One thing I noticed was the gluing method. The tread is glued at the edges, but not in the center. If you got the sort of de-lam we've seen in the photos, along the edge, a fair amount of tread could peel off. Theoretically.

That said, I've put about 1000 miles on the only set of P-Rs I've veer owned, and the tread's still glued where it's supposed to be. BTW, aren't most better-quality tubulars traditionally hand-glued?

Peter "gotta get that Hetre fixed" Adler

Berkeley, CA/USA

[dougP]

Tempting.  I really liked the Sea Lions but they recently wore out.  Back on Schwalbe for a while now but have zero tire inventory for the first time in a long time.  Hmmmm......

dougP

[Paul Brodek]

Further derailment and all that...  I've ridden Parigi-Roubaix for as long as Will, as well as Eroica/Strada Bianca the past 3-4yrs. Not nearly as many miles as Will, but I also never had even a whiff of tread delamination. However, my first/only pair of Alamanzo started getting edge peels after only a few trail rides. The same trails that never bothered the PR/SB/Eroica, BTW, it's not like I suddenly started doing endos and epic hucking (did I get that terminology right?) due to the presence of quasi-knobby tread. Too small a sample for me to conjecture the Alamanzo are more problematical than the smooth-tread tires, but it does put me in the camp that has first-hand experience with Challenge tire tread delamination. That I seem to hear about it more in a CX context, likely on Alamanzo tires, makes me go hmmmm....

Back on topic, these new super-duper Soma tires haven't appeared on Soma's website yet, at least as far as I can browse. Are my pitiful browsing skills letting me down again, or are we still waiting? Anywhere I can find actual specs and stuff?

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA 

[lukeheller]

This custom 700c NFE shimmys.

It's about a 60x60.

Seat tube angle is 71.5.

Fork rake is ~75

The shimmy isn't a problem unless i let go of the bars AND lean backwards. But then, it is a problem.

I use a TOKEN needle bearing headset. That helped but didn't fully remove the issue.

Different tire sizes/suppleness affects shimmy. I run 700x35 kojacks. Shimmys with no hands on bars leaning back.

If I run it with 700x28 marathon plus, shimmy is significantly reduced. But those tires feel dead so I don't ride them.

I'd be curious to see what those fat supple beasts would do to my shimmy problem. Probably not help! Yet I'd like to try them.

[lukeheller]

Oh yeah, it shimmys with or without the saddle bag by the way. But I put a lot of effort into front loading that bike to reduce shimmy. I only use a saddle bag on it for 1200's or unsupported 600kms.

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks for the feedback Luke. Beautiful build. Great to see you did the PR.

Tail Winds,

~Hugh

[John Phillips]

Has anyone tried these yet? My pair of Soma Vitesse extra wear tread just arrived at my office.

John

[Mitch Browne]

I have tried both Compass EL and Soma EX 700c tires in recent weeks
and find the Compass feels much more plush. I believe the difference
between casings between the two have been discussed in recent threads.
I do find the Soma sidewalls to be a little more stiff.

I have a set of Soma SL tires (insanity thrives) coming in a day or
two for fair SL to EL comparison.

If Compass made 700c x 42 I'd go for those without a doubt. Each rider
knows their limits in terms of wear, use, budget so EL's won't work
for everyone. I am at my limit ;)

Compass tires have no minimum air pressure or direction on sidewall.
Soma says minimum of 40 psi. In my opinion they can go a few pounds
lower but due to stiffer tread (by design for wear) they start to feel
squirrely at 35 in the rear.

Mitch Browne
San Luis Obispo, CA

[John Phillips]

Thanks Mitch,

    I have the Compass Barlow Pass EL tires on my Hunq at home, and was curious how these would differ.

John

[Amit Singh]

The last time Soma offered it's 700x38mm C-Line, Compass was not far behind to offer it's own 700x38mm.

I hope the same thing will happen this time. ... and if not, it's worth asking again.

Jan, could you please make a Compass 700x42mm tire for us to purchase? :)

[Mark in Beacon]

I'm surprised Compass even went to 38, never mind 42. Jan's theory has been that whatever the wheel size, there is an optimum sweet spot for plushness, speed, handling, and it so happens that when you measure wheel plus tire, the total circumference is almost equal. I think it is something like 700C = 32mm, 650B = 42mm, 26" = 52mm. When you start going beyond a 700 x 35, I think the handling starts to get a bit weird. Plus your bike starts to get pretty jacked, unless it was designed for monster tires to begin with. I rode a bike with 700 x 41C Nimbus tires for a few years in the early 90s. I wasn't such a tire snob back then, and I've since heard the Nimbus series were considered dogs(no doubt stiff sidewalls, they were probably also belted), but it was about the only thing going in a wide road tire back then. I found it just fine for city riding, but a bit sluggish in the turns. The bike was built with those tires in mind, but there was barely any clearance, never mind fenders.

I realize he sells tires, and so the BQ Jan must accommodate the Compass Jan, and Compass is already beyond his stated optimums in both 700C and 650B with the latest tire offerings (and I may go for a pair of Switchbacks at some point.) But anyway, at some point, how much is enough already? He has even said the Rat Traps are occasionally a bit overly bouncy on the road.

[Steve Palincsar]

There was a lot of pleading and whining on the mailing lists asking for wide 700Cs.  I think that pleading finally won Jan over.

[ant ritchey]

Just slapped a pair of the lighter versions (whatever they're called) on my Hilsen.

Pumped 'em to 80 (they are 75 max) and picked up a pretty little shard of brown glass exactly 2.5 blocks from my house!

Will report back soon enough, hopefully.

[Mark Reimer]

80, holy smokes! If you would entertain a request, could you also report back how they feel at 30 or 40 psi? These are the Supple Vitesse EX tires, yes? 

[David Banzer]

And if you could report actual width as well I appreciate that.
David
Chicago

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/05/2015 05:40 PM, ant ritchey wrote:
> Just slapped a pair of the lighter versions (whatever they're called)
> on my Hilsen.
>
> Pumped 'em to 80 (they are 75 max)

Why???

[Daniel Jackson]

I've taken the EX version of this tire on the dirt and paved roads of northern VT over the last month. About 50 miles on class 4 road, 200 miles on maintained dirt/gravel, and 200 miles on pavement

I'm 175 lbs. Ive settled on front at 35 PSI and rear at 45 PSI. 

Take following assessment with a grain of salt, as I switched out Marathon Supremes when I put these on - so the difference is rather drastic. That said, I have ridden EL Barlows on the same bike about a year ago, so appreciate the supple tire revolution.

Overall, they do what a supple tire should do, and I imagine the SLs do so as well as EL Barlows for a fraction of the price. Much of the road chatter and noise typical of the Supremes is significantly dampened by these beauties. I notice great grab while climbing through and cornering in the loose stuff, i.e., performance subjectively akin to EL Barlows.

I went with the EX because of where I ride and hope for longer life. A friend of mine has the SLs and I plan to swap out for comparison at some point - but I fear its time to put the Ice Spiker Pros back on for the coming snows. 

If you've never tried a supple tire, these are a great entry. If you've worn out your beautiful EL Compass tires, these would make a good cheaper alternative. TIME WILL TELL whether or not they're durable.

They measure 40mm on my Velocity 700c Chukkar rims. 

[Mitch Browne]

Received Soma SL's this afternoon. I now have an SL on front and EX on rear both mounted on Velocity Dyad rims.

New SL reads 37.4 mm @ 41.4 PSI

One week old EX reads 40 mm @ 41.2 PSI

I won't have a chance to ride around but as expected the SL tread feels similar to the Compass Barlow Pass EL I have unmounted. The side wall of SL and EX are the same and have a sort of waxy feel compared to Compass but they're pretty supple.

Steve Palincsar recollects Jan had a written opinion on 700c max tire size. Coincidentally I was reading VBQ Vol 2 number 3 from winter 2004 and found "Choosing Your Wheels: History, Comfort and Rolling Resistance."  He makes a case for a "golden mean"  that's achieved with 700c x 25 and 650b x 38. His escape comment in the conclusion is "Whether this is arbitrary or really results in the most pleasant handling bike remains unknown." 

I'd say in the intervening 10+ yrs he's softened his conclusion and accomodates wider tires in his supple equation. For me commuting in the dark to work and running errands around town over the years I've found 42mm Schwalbes worked well for cracks, roots, branches etc. For me 42+mm of any tire is preferred for the type of riding I do.

His article also mentioned the not as robust nature of supple tires which painfully I've found true. I now have Stan's in my tubes and tire wipes installed. I may add a rabitt's foot (or lucky charm) if all else fails.

My conclusion. Supple tires are comfortable and fun but can be painful with flats or replacement cost.

[Kainalu]

Bottom bracket height is as big a factor to this sweet spot as anything, yes? Presumably Rivendell bikes and similarly low bottomed machines give us the tools to go extra puffed?
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Mitch Browne]

For comparison I mounted a 700c x 38 Barlow pass on a Mavic A719 rim
and added measurement to findings below:

Month old Barlow Pass 35mm @ 50 PSI

New SL reads 37.4 mm @ 41.4 PSI
One week old EX reads 40 mm @ 41.2 PSI

I won't have a chance to ride around but

[Mitch Browne]

The Barlow Pass measurement should read 35mm @ 40 PSI

> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

IMO, no.  Bottom Bracket height has been shown by some of the deepest thinkers about bikes to have very little to do with actual stability on the bike.  Grant likes low BB because it makes it far easier to get the bars up.  Low BBs get you the risk of pedal strike when you use small diameter tires, and the converse that you point out is true: low BBs give you permission to run large diameter tires.  

Jan Heine concluded that BB height on its own has very little to do with handling at all.  The general consensus is that BB height is very meaningful to fit the person on the bike comfortably, but has little to do with how the bike rides.  Objectors to that conventional wisdom will state anecdotes "I had a bike with a high BB and it rode like crap" etc.  That doesn't prove that BB height had anything to do with the bike riding like crap.  Correlation vs Causation.  

All of the above, IMHO, ATMO.  

[jandrews_nyc]

I just put the EX version on my S.H.  They don't seem any larger than the 38mm Little Big Ben's that were on there.

Looking forward to the inaugural ride.

[Kainalu]

Hmmm.. no more stable would be a bold statement, but that they say it has little to do with bike handling and stability is to say it has something to do with it, however slight. Right? So, maybe the importance of hitting that sweet spot in tire size is overblown about as much as the importance of bottom bracket height is underblown?
Perhaps I won't allow myself to fret about either
-Kai

[Bill Lindsay]

"that they say it has little to do with bike handling and stability is to say it has something to do with it, however slight. Right? "

Yes.  Bottom Bracket height had something to do with it, just not all that much.  I was disagreeing with your previous speculation that BB height "is as big a factor to this sweet spot as anything".  I don't thing BB height is the dominant thing, or even a very important thing.  It's something you can definitely screw up, and it's a minor contributor. 

Less fretting and more riding is almost always better

[Kainalu]

Yeah, I was just nervous after reading Mitch's post relating Steve's recollection of Jan's opinion regarding this golden mean. Then I relaxed my mind with thoughts of scraping pedals.
The most relevant takeaway- "Whether this is arbitrary or really results in the most pleasant handling bike remains unknown."
-Kai

[cyclotourist]

I've found I prefer higher (~68mm drop) BBs and shorter (430mm) stays. Just seems to work better for me better than the long/low aesthetic. It may be in my head of course, but definitely hasn't lead to doom and gloom on rides! :-)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal