Leaping onto an Atlantis

[Emily Hutchinson]

Hello, 

I am trying to talk myself into or out of a really pretty new Atlantis with all it's parts. It would be the smaller frame because I'm short and average weight 130. The price tag is somewhere around 4000 all said and done and I feel stuck. My gut is pushing me in both directions because I've never ridden an Atlantis. I'm also out of country and can't just go find one to try. I love touring and I'd love to do some long international and national tours and live in Colorado with hills. Okay thanks.Someone help tip me! Is it irresponsible to spend this much money?

[Bill Lindsay]

Go for it!  The folks at Riv will steer you well.  If you had to sell an organ to raise the money, then that might be a little irresponsible.  If you buy the bike but then don't ride it, then you wasted your money.  Think of those people who bought 4000 dollar exercise equipment for their New Years Resolution and are already bored with it.  A quality bike that fits you is an investment that pays for itself many times over if you build good memories using it.  

[Patrick Moore]

You ask about "responsibility" and therefore the moral issue. Note that IMO the question is not merely about the money, its about the money as used for a particular purpose.

The guiding moral principle is to buy only what will reasonably use. If you plan to put miles on it and keep it for a long time, I don't see that it is irresponsible, given Rivendell bicycles' undoubted good handling and build qualities. To buy it for reasons of prestige, even if subtle, would be wrong, but with bikes I think that is largely a male sin.

$4,000 for a toy or on a whim is foolish; $4K on something that will be a useful and pleasing tool for a lifetime is not, IMO. (And if you can get one nicely built for $4K, I'd say that was a pretty good deal.) Moreover, Rivendells are built, assembled,and sold by people paid fair wages with marketing costs that (I gather) are relatively minuscule, so you are getting quality and fair pricing, and not merely prestige pricing.

I've skirted and indeed far overshot the "irresponsible" boundary myself on many occasions and for many things, and to some degree I've learned my lesson.

I've never owned an Atlantis, but I've owned in total 5 Rivendells, and I know their quality and ride.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Emily Hutchinson <ehutchi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, 

I am trying to talk myself into or out of a really pretty new Atlantis with all it's parts. It would be the smaller frame because I'm short and average weight 130. The price tag is somewhere around 4000 all said and done and I feel stuck. My gut is pushing me in both directions because I've never ridden an Atlantis. I'm also out of country and can't just go find one to try. I love touring and I'd love to do some long international and national tours and live in Colorado with hills. Okay thanks.Someone help tip me! Is it irresponsible to spend this much money?

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[Deacon Patrick]

Och! Emily! You know you want to buy it ... after all you wrote the Riv fan club to ask if you should. Grin. Didja think we'd talk you out of it? Of course you should buy it. But it is hard to take that leap. I live in Colorado, bought my Hunqapillar without a test ride, site unseen save the internet. Before I got it, I hadn't ridden a bike more than a few miles in over ten years because of a medical issue. I thought I might be able to ride it, but never did I dream riding it would help me feel better and recover. Compared with the other test bikes (which overloaded my brain after 3 miles), I can ride my Rivendell however far I want, fully loaded, and feel better at the end than I did starting out. With your Atlantis you will have a go anywhere, do anything bike for roads paved, roads dirt, trails, bikepacking, touring, whatever you want to ride with wild abandon. Go for it!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Chris Chen]

I guess it comes down to,

$4k on an Atlantis or a bike of such quality is not a waste of money, because you'll have a big smile every time you ride it.

But at the same time you don't *need* to spend $4k to have fun on a bicycle, obviously.

There are plenty of folks that ride mountain bike conversions and do all kinds of crazy stuff.

If you have the extra money get the bike, and if you don't have the money, well, start saving! :)

cc

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[Peter Morgano]

From an investment standpoint Rivendells hold their value well in case you ever need to liquidate. Oh and they are amazing to ride and are beautiful to boot!

[Jim Bronson]

If you have the money, or at least a plan to borrow the money and pay it back in a reasonable amount of time, I don't see the issue here.

Unless this number of bicycles in your house would lead to S-1.  But IIRC your partner is also an avid rider and a Randonneur, PBP ancien, etc.  So no problems for you there.

In my case spending $4K on a new bike I don't really need would lead to at least S+trouble.  She doesn't get it...yet.  I think the problem is, I really need to buy her a $4000 bike, then maybe she'll understand.

Or maybe not.

But anyway, if you want it and can afford it and will use it, then buy it.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Emily Hutchinson <ehutchi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, 

I am trying to talk myself into or out of a really pretty new Atlantis with all it's parts. It would be the smaller frame because I'm short and average weight 130. The price tag is somewhere around 4000 all said and done and I feel stuck. My gut is pushing me in both directions because I've never ridden an Atlantis. I'm also out of country and can't just go find one to try. I love touring and I'd love to do some long international and national tours and live in Colorado with hills. Okay thanks.Someone help tip me! Is it irresponsible to spend this much money?

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[dougP]

Emily:

What are you riding now?  What about it do you like and what do you dis-like?  What would you like it to do or be that it's not? 

As to the Atlantis, it's a bike you will ride forever provided it meets your needs.  I bought mine from Rivendell in early 2003, based on phone calls and reading about them.  I had never seen a Rivendell in person until I pulled mine out of the box.  Within a mile or so of that first ride, I knew I'd made the right choice.  It's that sort of bike.  Grant had about a huge amount of bike design experience when he designed this one. 

One additional thought:  From time to time, on this forum, someone will lament ever having parted with an Atlantis.  "Well, I had 3 Rivendells so I thought the Atlantis was one I could do without.  Boy, I really wished I'd kept it."

dougP

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33:29 AM UTC-7, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

[hsmitham]

Emily,

Obviously, we don't know your personal finances, with that aside I agree with Chris there are other fine bicycles out there that will cost far less and do all that you want a bike to do but with less aesthetic beauty like the Surly's. I never thought I'd be able to afford a Rivendell but in 2012 I made the leap and have never regretted the decision, at current count we have an A. Homer Hilsen and my wife's Betty Foy. We love Riv's so much that I purchased a used Atlantis and am in the process of building it up...from all that I've gathered folks that have ridden the Atlantis love it as the highly versatile bike that Riv intended. But if you do some research there are custom builder's like Bantam Bicycle works up in Portland that may be less expensive http://bikeportland.org/2013/02/14/framebuilders-share-space-dreams-on-se-ankeny-82860

I know that other RBW list members have bicycles built by Bob and they look sweet. Worth a look.

http://www.flickr.com/people/bikeforvictory/

You can probably contact him through Flickr or Chris can get you Bob's info. Just to be clear I have no idea how much a bike would cost through them. And lastly, the above comments about an Atlantis as an investment is completely valid...and you keep some really nice people in business. My two cents worth. Enjoy the process and I look forward to your decision.

~Hugh

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33:29 AM UTC-7, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

[murphyjrfk]

Just my two cents I lucked into a used Atlantis a few years ago. Low and behold I sold it (my wife and I were paying for our wedding-needed the money etc). I love my wife but boy do I regret selling it! I have a riv again- albeit not an Atlantis- but a good blue Bleriot that fit the budget! I wish I would have done more to not sell it. So my vote is to buy it! I hope I get the chance again one day. It's the perfect ride that can be set up any way imaginable! Good luck with whatever bike you get!

[tdusky]

I own an Atlantis along with other fine steel bikes. The Atlantis is a tough stout do anything bike. Everybody has different needs and opinions. I ride a 64cm bike and weigh 205 lbs. Even for touring with 30 or 40 pounds it feels stout. As a bike gets larger it flexes more, frame builders go with larger diameter tubes as the frame gets larger and the riders weight increases. I owned a 61cm Atlantis for a few years until I traded it for a 64. I found the 64 to have a slightly better ride. I like lively but solid bikes. The Atlantis is solid but anything but lively. At 130 pounds the Atlantis will feel like a boat anchor. What size tires do you plan on using? The Atlantis is best for 38mm plus, It looks a bit silly with smaller tires. Look for something used and save about half the money.

Best of Luck

Tom Dusky

Huntington Woods Mi

[Patrick Moore]

Tom raises a good question. OTOH, while I've no dog in this fight, and just for the record, I recall being impressed a few years ago when a woman listmember -- whom I have no reason to believe was an exceptionally large person -- reported on list that she enjoyed taking 24 mph pulls at the front of her fast riding group on her Atlantis.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:07 PM, tdusky <tdu...@comcast.net> wrote:

 ... At 130 pounds the Atlantis will feel like a boat anchor. 

[Deacon Patrick]

I've gotta take issue with your belief that a small Atlantis would feel like a boat anchor, Tom. On what do you base that? Seems to me Grant can be trusted to make any bike he produces excellent for it's purposes at any size he produces.

With abandon,

Patrick

[tdusky]

If the the large Atlantis is a boat anchor I would bet the small is as well.

This is just my opinion. As is everyone else making comments here.

Tires will also make a huge difference on the feel of the bike.

:)

Tom

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:33:29 AM UTC-4, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

If your used to Carbon then yeah Steel can feel like an anchor...after riding on steel a while it's just a mind set and that anchor still seems to get from point A to point B with some rose smelling along the way :-)

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

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[Eunice Chang]

Emily,

I'm going to quote someone who was wiser than me. If it makes you happy and enjoy the rides more, the cost is trivial. If it makes you ride more, that's a bonus. It's more of a quality thing. And if you can afford it, go for it. If you can't, you might want to look for an used Atlantis or a cheaper frame (Surly LHT comes to mind). 

The first time I rode an Atlantis, I wanted to ride it forever. Unfortunately it was on temporary loan, and I regret not buying it from the owner when I had the chance. 

Due to personal circumstances, I ended up with a custom mixte that cost about as much as a fully equipped Atlantis, and it was set up in Riv style, and it's been worth every penny. Never mind that I ride a mere two miles to the coffee shop, and not even everyday; every time I ride it I always want to ride more and look for new routes.

Good luck with your decision.

Eunice

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[Patrick Moore]

But he is used to steel -- an Atlantis. 

He is

You are

We are

They are

etc.

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[dougP]

"At 130 pounds the Atlantis will feel like a boat anchor." 

Not true.  My wife weighs less than this and loves the ride of her 47 cm Atlantis.  She has ridden enough different bikes in the last 30+ years to have enough experience to make the call. 

dougP

[Hugh Smitham]

Yes I know that Mr. Moore from querqe it was a tongue in cheek comment. Not the smell the roses part though.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[Patrick Moore]

OK, I am sometimes too serious myself.

[Hugh Smitham]

No worries Patrick I too can be to serious, for me humor is necessary I should have a Einstein quote that reads “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving & giggle.” ― Albert Einstein Though not sure he'd have said that...maybe someone with a bunch of time will look up his quotes and make me look like a bleep.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/

[jimD]

A tip of my virtual hat to this. Well said!

-JimD

[redsydude]

I have no advice but here is an anode to your cathode. My whole life I’ve been a $200 bike person.  Last year I owned four of them and I was sick of the clutter so I gathered together one groupset of the best parts, sold or gave away everything else and bought a new Sam Hillborne frameset.  I figure I have 10x$200 in it and consider it a bargain.  I split my time between two cities so I’m back on craigslist looking for another $200 bike. When I think about the whole craigslist transaction hassle and the time and money to get the bike running OK, $200 bikes now seem outrageously overpriced to me.

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33:29 AM UTC-7, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

[Minh]

Well hope Emily comes back and gives us her verdict.  My 2 cents, if you have to ask to spend money then you need to think about it some more.  i have a QB and a Hillborne, both are great bikes but sometimes we get too romantic about it.  You can get a similiar ride (thank goodness, and no doubt due to RBW existing) from other brands.  Even a Hillborne will give you a similar ride to an Atlantis.  Of course the Atlantis is nicer, and there's nothing wrong with wanting that, but don't let that sway you too much, functionally it's not better then other options.

Also, 4K for a fully built Atlantis is OK to me, it is second-hand, if it's a typical RBW build, but not great.  again just my 2 cents. 

[Clayton]

Hi Emily,

I bought my Atlantis new in '99 or so. I have owned many bikes, but my Atlantis is the one bike I will never sell. I love it. I have had 3 back surgeries and is the most comfortable bike I have ridden. I don't own a car, so I ride this bike daily and have hauled 80 lbs or more. I have stripped off all the racks and fenders, installed 26" x 2.35" tires and ridden it on easy trails. I have worn out several component groups, and it is on it's third paint job (powder coat this time). There are other bikes that are less expensive and work very well, such as the Surly long haul trucker and others, but they, in my mind are like appliances. Refrigerators, tool box, vacuum cleaners. The Atlantis is a satori, something I can stare at for hours like a TV. Again, you probably can find bikes that are functionally equal, and weigh less, but they won't be a Riv and they won't be an Atlantis. Life is short. Get a good bike.

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33:29 AM UTC-7, Emily Hutchinson wrote:

[Anne Paulson]

Irresponsible? Not irresponsible at all. The Atlantis is super-duper
for road and gravel tours. I've taken mine across the US twice, as
well as on many other tours.

If you can afford it and you'll ride it, I say go for it.

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-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

[Jim Bronson]

Awesome post redsydude

I have a bike that I paid like $160 for off of Ebay and probably wasn't worth even that, an old early 80s gas pipe Nishiki.  It's what I use when I need to ride somewhere and lock up a bike.  I keep thinking I will make some improvements, but then looking at the frame, it's not really worth it.  So I just fix what breaks or falls off (literally, I have had parts fall off, like for example the interruptor brake levers) with the cheapest replacement parts available.  I taco-ed the original front wheel making a slow left hand turn and replaced it with a $37 front wheel with the roughest bearings I have ever felt.  It works well enough.

My Rivendell is what I ride everywhere else.  It will never be tamed by a lock.  You can't compare it to a pos $200 craigslist bike.  It just brings me way more joy than that.

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[Bruce Herbitter]

On a club ride last weekend, pal Frank (on a racked and fendered Bilenky) and I (on a racked and fendered Saluki -not far different from an Atlantis) pulled away at 18 - 20 avg from the F85/Roubaix pack, just because we were felling perky. The Saluki feels comfortable, not heavy. (Tires are GB Oursons) When a bike feels good, you can feel fast.  I imagine Atlantis might work on similar lines.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Hugh Smitham <hughs...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Steven Frederick]

I can't add much to this, but I will say that I believe that if the Atlantis is the sort of bike you want, then you can't get a much better one of that sort...

Steve

[Jim]

To join in Peter M' s point, Rivendell bikes (particularly the Atlantis) have excellent resale, at least in the US. So if you decide to sell the bike later (unlikely) you most likely will get a good part of your investment back without much difficulty. I think what is at risk is $500 to $700 and not $4000.