Fender pondering.....

[Clayton]

Asking for help from the tribe....I am starting to think I no longer want plastic fenders gracing my Atlantis. For me they last about two years max, with my fender sadism. Plasticky is icky, (except for Ortliebs) and all that. I am curious to hear peoples reviews of wooden and aluminum fenders. How long should I expect them to last (I ride my Atlantis off road occasionally)?  I can get (wide 26") Velo Orange aluminum and powder coat to match my frame, or spend an equal fortune to get the lovely compound wooden ones. I am looking for durability first and foremost. I have a sneaky suspicion that the wood would have a better fatigue life. What says the Riv Tribe? 

Thanks in advance....

Clayton (Bend)

http://creativeopenings.com/CO_Fenders/woodfenders.htm

http://www.woodysfenders.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9

[Bill Lindsay]

I've got five fendered bikes.  One plastic, two steel, two aluminum.  I'm halfway through putting plastics on my tandem which will make it 2/2/2.

It is my humble opinion that if you break fenders, you should run plastic fenders because they are affordable and recyclable.   For example, I think Manny should run plastic fenders.  I run aluminum fenders on two bikes.  Both of those bikes I chose Aluminum because they are weight weenie builds.  They look nicer than plastic, they are about as durable as plastic, and they are lighter. On two bikes where I wanted the look of metal, and didn't care about weight, I went with Stainless Steel.  Those are pretty bomber.  I pinstriped one set for extra bling and I might get the others powder coated along with the frame this winter.  

It is my opinion that wood fenders are gorgeous.  It is my opinion that wood fenders have major shortcomings as fenders.  The flat ones allow spray to squirt out sideways.  The compound curve ones are thick and eat up valuable clearances.  

For all front fenders, I beg (beg!) everyone to use a quick release mechanism to avoid disaster.  https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/spare-parts/fmf-safety-tabs

It'll probably never happen to you, but I've had a front end lockup throw me over the bars once in my life and once is enough.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Tim Gavin]

I concur with Bill's assessments, and I add:

Safety release tabs: 

the PDF FMF safety tabs are excellent and work with all common metal fender stays.  I put them on my VO "hammered" fenders.

I also recommend that you add them to the rear fender as well.  

I picked up a stick in my rear wheel, which caused the SKS P45 fender to accordion forward and jam under the brake bridge.  

I can't say that the safety tabs would have prevented the stick from locking up the rear wheel, but at least the fender would have survived unscathed.  

Riv sells extra SKS "secu-clip" safety releases.

Metal fenders:

VO aluminum fenders mount the stays to the fenders with bolts that protrude into the fender clearance space.  Honjos use the same lousy design, as called out by Jan Heine.  Berthoud fenders use smaller bolts that protrude less.

Whereas, SKS plastic fenders put the stay bolts on metal straps on the side of the fenders, and they do not protrude inside the fender at all.  This design is easier to adjust and maximizes clearance.

In fact, SKS fenders are the absolute best if you have limited clearance.

Tim Gavin

Cedar Rapids, IA

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

You mention aluminum and wooden fenders, BUT…

 

I have Berthoud stainless steel fenders on my Atlantis (to be fair, it's pewter-colored, so stainless isn't a bad match), complete with the Berthoud leather mud flaps, and they are fantastic.  I (and Peter White, who knows a hell of a lot more than I do) believe they're the toughest fenders out there, and I think they look great, too – in a non-fussy, elegantly-industrial kind of way.  With the thick leather mud flaps, you couldn't ask for better rain and mud protection.  Also, despite Peter's caveats below, I didn't find them difficult to install at all.  And they're not absurdly expensive – around $75/pair, I think.

 

I have also installed a pair of Cody's (proprietor of Woody's Fenders) compound wooden fenders on my SimpleOne (now in DC with my youngest son).  They were absolutely stunning (best looking fenders I have ever seen, by far), but the rear developed a crack at the brake bridge within a month or two of installation, despite my best efforts to avoid stress in the installation.  Don't get me wrong – I love Cody's stuff, and I have sets of his flat fenders on two other bikes, one of which (on my Quickbeam) has been on there for thousands of miles and several years with no issues at all.  I think the flat ones are very tough, but of course they provide less protection because of their shape than a curved fender.

 

Here's what Peter White has to say about the Berthoud stainless steels:

 

Gilles BERTHOUD

My best fenders are made by Gilles BERTHOUD, in France. But they may not be for everybody. The stainless steel versions take a bit of work to install. But, once installed, they are very rugged, and give the best protection against spray from the tires, particularly if you use their optional leather mud flap in front.

The Berthoud fenders now come pre-drilled for the struts. You will have to drill holes to mount the mud flaps, if you get mud flaps.

The stainless fenders come in a variety of sizes; 700c x 40mm, 700c x 50mm, 700 x 60mm, 650 x 40mm, 650 x 50mm, 26" x 40mm, 26" x 50mm and 26 x 60mm. The fenders are sold "a la carte". The optional leather mud flap is only to be used with the Berthoud fenders. People have been asking if the mud flap is suitable for use with Esge/SKS fenders. I don't recommend it, since those fenders aren't as tough as the stainless Berthoud fenders, and the wind acting on the flap may cause the SKS fenders to crack.

The Dreaded Fine Print

Of course, any fender will eventually crack due to the constant flexing that happens while riding. While I have yet to see a report of a carbon fiber fender breaking, it won't surprise me to see one fail eventually. The Berthoud stainless fenders are clearly the most rugged full coverage fender available that don't weigh as much as a bicycle. We get very few reports of cracks with these. But we do get some, and most are on bikes that get ridden many thousands of miles per year.* And a crack is not considered a defect and is not covered by any warrantee. It's like a tire wearing out. Some tires last longer than others, and some fenders last longer than others. Berthoud stainless fenders are like very durable touring tires. They'll last a long time. But eventually, they will wear out.

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[Will]

I dunno what plastic you're running. I installed SKS P65s on my Atlantis and really like them. They are plastic with an aluminum core, so a hybrid of sorts. Quiet, good looking, etc...

Whatever you decide... be absolutely sure your front fender has a quick release feature. I've endo'd with non-release fenders. It really sucks... and is very expensive. 

[Ryan Fleming]

Yup I like those Berthouds with the leather mud flaps too. I have them on my AR  and also had them on my Road too but haven't been using them for a couple of years. Actually should put them back on the road because riding in the rain without fenders sucks. I think the Berthouds are actually the most aesthetically pleasing fenders of all the ones I've seen. The SKS ones I've had on my X0-1 for a long time (10 years? ) have held up without complaint; they're perfectly functional

On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 2:26:01 PM UTC-5, Pudge wrote:

You mention aluminum and wooden fenders, BUT…

 

I have Berthoud stainless steel fenders on my Atlantis (to be fair, it's pewter-colored, so stainless isn't a bad match), complete with the Berthoud leather mud flaps, and they are fantastic.  I (and Peter White, who knows a hell of a lot more than I do) believe they're the toughest fenders out there, and I think they look great, too – in a non-fussy, elegantly-industrial kind of way.  With the thick leather mud flaps, you couldn't ask for better rain and mud protection.  Also, despite Peter's caveats below, I didn't find them difficult to install at all.  And they're not absurdly expensive – around $75/pair, I think.

 

I have also installed a pair of Cody's (proprietor of Woody's Fenders) compound wooden fenders on my SimpleOne (now in DC with my youngest son).  They were absolutely stunning (best looking fenders I have ever seen, by far), but the rear developed a crack at the brake bridge within a month or two of installation, despite my best efforts to avoid stress in the installation.  Don't get me wrong – I love Cody's stuff, and I have sets of his flat fenders on two other bikes, one of which (on my Quickbeam) has been on there for thousands of miles and several years with no issues at all.  I think the flat ones are very tough, but of course they provide less protection because of their shape than a curved fender.

 

Here's what Peter White has to say about the Berthoud stainless steels:

 

Gilles BERTHOUD

My best fenders are made by Gilles BERTHOUD, in France. But they may not be for everybody. The stainless steel versions take a bit of work to install. But, once installed, they are very rugged, and give the best protection against spray from the tires, particularly if you use their optional leather mud flap in front.

The Berthoud fenders now come pre-drilled for the struts. You will have to drill holes to mount the mud flaps, if you get mud flaps.

The stainless fenders come in a variety of sizes; 700c x 40mm, 700c x 50mm, 700 x 60mm, 650 x 40mm, 650 x 50mm, 26" x 40mm, 26" x 50mm and 26 x 60mm. The fenders are sold "a la carte". The optional leather mud flap is only to be used with the Berthoud fenders. People have been asking if the mud flap is suitable for use with Esge/SKS fenders. I don't recommend it, since those fenders aren't as tough as the stainless Berthoud fenders, and the wind acting on the flap may cause the SKS fenders to crack.

The Dreaded Fine Print

Of course, any fender will eventually crack due to the constant flexing that happens while riding. While I have yet to see a report of a carbon fiber fender breaking, it won't surprise me to see one fail eventually. The Berthoud stainless fenders are clearly the most rugged full coverage fender available that don't weigh as much as a bicycle. We get very few reports of cracks with these. But we do get some, and most are on bikes that get ridden many thousands of miles per year.* And a crack is not considered a defect and is not covered by any warrantee. It's like a tire wearing out. Some tires last longer than others, and some fenders last longer than others. Berthoud stainless fenders are like very durable touring tires. They'll last a long time. But eventually, they will wear out.

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 2:31 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Fender pondering.....

 

Asking for help from the tribe....I am starting to think I no longer want plastic fenders gracing my Atlantis. For me they last about two years max, with my fender sadism. Plasticky is icky, (except for Ortliebs) and all that. I am curious to hear peoples reviews of wooden and aluminum fenders. How long should I expect them to last (I ride my Atlantis off road occasionally)?  I can get (wide 26") Velo Orange aluminum and powder coat to match my frame, or spend an equal fortune to get the lovely compound wooden ones. I am looking for durability first and foremost. I have a sneaky suspicion that the wood would have a better fatigue life. What says the Riv Tribe? 

 

Thanks in advance....

 

Clayton (Bend)

 

http://creativeopenings.com/CO_Fenders/woodfenders.htm

 

http://www.woodysfenders.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9

 

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[clayton bailey]

Thanks to everyone! I haven't considered stainless. Ok, wood is out. Painted aluminum or stainless...Leaning towards stainless....Berthoud stainless steel fenders....I'll check them out. 

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Look for them at peterwhitecycles.com

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[Jeff Lesperance]

For what it's worth, I've had Woody's fenders, flat, on my Hillborne for several months, and I'm quite pleased with them. I ordered them split, for distinct fore and aft sections to provide maximum tire clearance as needed. This means that they may have a bit more side spill, and don't protect as much at their central mounting points. I've commuted and done long weekend rides in all sorts of wet and muddy weather and they've done just fine, and held up physically and structurally. There's a point with fenders, riding through wet and muck, where you'll stay dry and clean. Then there's the next level where fenders are going to reduce the wet and muck, but you're still going to get some on you and your bike. The threshold for this happening with flat wood fenders is a bit lower, but I'm happy to deal with that low threshold.

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

[Patrick Moore]

Jeff -- Can you say what width your fenders are, and what is the width of your tires? The woody fenders (don't know source; they were OEM with the bike) on the Dahon Hon Solo, also of flat section, are just barely wider than the 38 mm Marathons, yet seemed (in the brief instances where I was riding through deep puddles, on the one hand, or riding on still-damp roads, on the other) to work as well as any Honjo, Berthoud, Bluemel, Zefal, SKS, Planet Bike, Velo Orange, and Wald fender I've used. That is to say, as you said, that when the rain is moderate, they work fine, and when it comes down as a SW downpour and flood the roads, it is certainly better than nothing, but your feet are going to get splashed.

Anyway: Having just re-installed Kojaks on the '03 Curt, having ordered folding ones and having had them converted to tubeless, their 32 mm width (32 front, 33 rear; labeled 1.35") is wider enough than the ~29 mm Elk Passes they replaced* that they interfere with the 50 mm Honjos.+

The frameset has room for fenders with the Kojaks, but not huge room, and I'm thinking that a flat rather than a rounded profile will fit more easily into the available space without tire rub. At any rate, 50 mm Honjos are too wide.

Nice bike, btw (though I deprecate double top tubes.)

Thanks, Patrick

* I love the Elk Pass, but it is narrower than advertised at ~29 mm on the 21 mm Sun/R "Equalizers" which must be run with tubes; and since all the periti say that removing tubes gives tires less rolling resistance, my choice has been to run the (folding) Kojaks tubeless as nice-rolling, much less expensive, and more durable alternative on this bike that will, perhaps, vaguely approximate the ride of the EPs with tubes. Just converted yesterday; first impressions are positive. Also, the EPs, as Brandon at Fat Tires exclaimed, "feel like socks!" The Kojaks should resist sharp gravel better, give a slightly wider footprint on our local dirt, and last double the miles. The EPs will be used, with tubes -- attempt to tube-less-i-fy didn't work -- on the gofast. 

+ Long story, but I stupidly ordered 50 mm Honjos from Clymb because they were cheap -- $67 shipped. Clymb advertised them as 650B X 50, but what I got were very obviously 700C X 50. 50 mm is 10 mm too wide for this frame, and though I got the Honjos to work with the narrower EPs by subtly massaging them, adding 3-4 more mm showed up their un-optimal fit. 

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[Jeff Lesperance]

I ordered the Woody fenders for my Hillborne, with the intention of getting them to cover up to the width of my Rock n' Road tires, though that endeavor was ill-planned, as I learned that fenders + knobbies is not a smart riding choice. Anyhow, the fenders are 2" wide, and I had them over the Rock n' Roads, which are advertised at 700x43, and currently have them over Compass Barlow Pass tires, which are supposed to be 700x38. I can't recall, off the top of my head, the actual measurement on my rims but I want to say their both either true to size or within a mm or two. The fore/aft split was necessary with the Rock n' Roads, but I'm fairly certain I could do without the split with the Barlow Pass installed. 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jeff. I will put the Woodies and other flat section fenders on my short list. I'm tired of trying to balance fender width and fender curve to the limited space between tire and frame. 40 mm flat fenders might be the key. I know someone, in the last year or 2, was offering flat section aluminum fenders, but I like the look of wood better. The alternative is the shorter arch cross section of SKS Longboards.

After all, in ABQ, with a citywide average of 9" of precipitation a year, it's not as if I am riding in rain daily -- tho' when it does come down, it comes down in sheets.

'Nother question: what sort of maintenance do wooden fenders require? Will an occasional massage with Johnson's Paste Wax suffice? I applied JPW heavily to the cheapish woodies on the Dahon.

[Jeff Lesperance]

Cody, from Woody's fenders, includes an instruction sheet that suggests some type of car wax every now and then, IIRC.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

FWIW, I've done nothing to the Woody's fenders on my Quickbeam for going on five years now, and they look great.  But wax can't hurt, and it wouldn't take any time.

[Edwin W]

If you want pre painted (though limited sizes) I saw something about the Portland Fender Company.
http://www.portlandfendercompany.com/

I haven't tried them.

How do you break your plastic ones?

I might go metal when I break my sks longboards, but they have been good for 3 or 4 thousand miles so far.

Edwin

[Matthew J]

Metal fenders:

VO aluminum fenders mount the stays to the fenders with bolts that protrude into the fender clearance space.  Honjos use the same lousy design, as called out by Jan Heine.  Berthoud fenders use smaller bolts that protrude less.

On my bike with Honjos I used Berthoud stays for this reason and also because I like the way they look.  Boulder Bicycle used to sell Berthoud stays separate.  Not on his website currently. Maybe he is waiting for a shipment from France.

[Matthew J]

Oh, and cannot let a fender thread go by without lamenting the apparent extinction of the Berthoud / SKS joint venture.  SKS made the fender - a bit higher order in looks than regular SKS.  Then the great Berthoud hardware.

Every now and then I will do a Want To Buy in this and the Bicycle Lifestyle thread.  So far no one has responded.  I imagine whoever bought them are using theirs.

[clayton bailey]

Jeff, the wood fenders are frickin' beautiful on the Hillborne. Thanks for sharing. I might just have to go with wood, after all....There is a shop in town, Bend Velo (cool shop) that carries those. I will have to go look at them again. (I just ordered stainless fenders from VO, which I WAS thinking of powder coating to match the frame.....but the wood....)....Arrrg! Choices. My issue is I have nowhere to hose off my bike, it is my 'car' and gets ridden in the rain, snow and  frozen mud.  I use studded tires in the winter too. So stainless is probably the most practical.... but maybe I can live with the coverage and short life span of the wood....So nice....Oh, and Edwin, I break the plastic fenders from riding daily on crappy roads, dropping off curbs and basic urban abuse, with occasional off road use. The constant heavy vibration eventually cracks them at a rivet somewhere, usually at the crown of my fork, but not always. I attached my current Planet Bike Cascadia front fender to the front rack and it eventually cracked. I hacked off the split part and  pop riveted a chunk of an old fender on top of what was left. That broke too, so I drilled out the rivets and made my own long fender extension (to protect the bottom of my Luxo) out of ABS plastic and a heat gun. It looks terrible, and I am tired of trying dealing with it. I dislike setting up fenders for the first time, at least the plastic ones. So many little adjustments, making the fenders curve in weird ways. I am finally figuring out how to get plastic fenders nice and straight, so it is a perfect time to change to something new, right?  Again, a heartfelt Thank You!

Clayton (Bend)

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[WETH]

Clayton,
I have Woody's fenders on my Atlantis: https://flic.kr/p/pm33zP
They've been on for 2.5 years. I have never waxed them; they have held up great, but then so have all my SKS and planet bike fenders. Pros and cons of wood fenders have been well covered here already. I will just add that nothing on my bikes draws more positive commentary than the wood fenders. You will not ride inconspicuously.
All the best,
Erl