Who's drinking the Kool Aid?

[Corwin Booth]

I was trying to think of some clever reference to the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, but failed.

Probably the *only* think I don't like about riding my Hilsen are the occasional snarky comments about having imbibed in the Petersen Kool Aid. Never mind that everyone knows that we drink miruvor, or that I just happen to agree with riding with normal shoes, fenders, the "largest saddlebag I've ever seen!" (that was another comment, not uttered in an entirely friendly way), after years of experience...

So I really want to respond by saying something about how this person or that drank the clipless Kool Aid, or the skinny tire Kool Aid, or the plastic saddle Kool Aid, and certainly the Karbon Kool Aid. But I never do.

I'll bet other folks on this list have experienced this phenomenon...

[James Philip]

Hi Corwin,

I find myself in a peculiar position as my stable includes everything from vintage steel to electronic shifting "krabon" and spans mountain, cross and road race and touring... periodically I am around folks who are disparaging about the other clans/tribes in our bike nation, and depending on how vocal they are I either ignore them or gently remind them "at least the target of their ridicule is enjoying their ride".

My personal experience of prejudice is that it is born of ignorance, and the cure is enlightenment and shared experience, which unfortunately is only possible if the sufferer is willing.

My advice then is to enjoy your ride, ignore the barbs from the ignorant, engage with the curious and be tolerant of those who get their "different" cycling jollies in whatever form they choose. 

Regards

J.

[jimD]

Not so much in San Jose, Ca, area. 

Generally folks who know Rivendell, even those on (gasp) carbon fiber bikes know about and appreciate my custom Riv.

In those rare cases that I'm asked if I'm a retro-grouch or why I'm riding such ancient technology my reply is that 'it's a great riding bike.'

In my view there's all kinds of kook-aid. I'm fond of the lugged steel type, others are attracted to the carbon road brand, some like the 

full suspension mountain brand. It's all kook-aid and it's all riding. There's all kinds of cliques to join.

-JimD

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[dougP]

I just tell people the 20th century was very good to me so I'll just stay there, thank you.  One may have to attain a "certain age" for that to be believable. 

dougP

[James Warren]

How about this reply: "What do you suggest I switch to and why is it important to you that I do so?"

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Corwin Booth <corwin...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Bruce Herbitter]

Finished up a small group ride today. I was 2d into the finish, behind a "normal"  kit on a Specialized. Had another Specialized behind me then a Scott, all in spandex with micro tool bags. I was on a Ram with 37mm tires, an Out Your Backdoor 6 way saddle bag and a frame pump. Patagonia hiking shoes on flat MKS Sylvan pedals. As we came in two cyclists stopped there for a water break said hi. One on a Lemond Team carbon and one on a Moots Ti race bike. The Moots-ter clapped me on the shoulder to greet me, then did it again. "This is really wool, isn't it? " (RBW by Woolistic from some years back). 'Yes.so are the shorts and socks." "let me do that again!"  (again the shoulder touch).   

--

[cyclotourist]

My favorite "suggestion" was from a bloke looking at my Quickbeam. He
suggested I would be faster if I switched to clipless pedals. I
pointed out that I would be even faster with derailers.

--
Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Ron Mc]

for me it's easy - if my bike wasn't comfort, I wouldn't ride it.  

I couldn't ride most of the club bikes these days, and I believe too many people my age are being sold bikes that will give them cervical strain.  

I also don't want to wear a bib.  

[jimD]

👍    😊

[Patrick Moore]

Mixing threads here, hows about this one? Is it Grant's personal build?

Seriously -- if you can be serious about something like this -- someone must have been drinking acid-laced Koolaid (rather than the Jim Jones kind) to come up with this. Perhaps it's ironic?

Patrick "Ouch, in so many ways" Moore

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Ron Mc <bulld...@gmail.com> wrote:

for me it's easy - if my bike wasn't comfort, I wouldn't ride it.  

I couldn't ride most of the club bikes these days, and I believe too many people my age are being sold bikes that will give them cervical strain.  

I also don't want to wear a bib.  

--

RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!

Certified Resume Writer
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

patric...@resumespecialties.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Albuquerque, NM

[Patrick Moore]

Whoops: here ya go:

Patrick Moore, who just now for the first time in 20+ years, lost something (two sets of keys) from a Carradice he forgot to buckle, on the acequia roads of NW ABQ, NM.

[Brian Campbell]

"Go eff' yourself " works well for me but then again, I am in Philadelphia, so that's how we communicate......

[Curtis McKenzie]

I get the same thing when out on my Hilsen.  My response is a pleasant smile as I wish them an enjoyable ride.  If the person is on a bike all hope for them is not lost. We must stay the course and hope for the best. 

--

[RJM]

I am totally drunk on the Rivendell Kool Aid...because for me, it just works. I mean, my Sam is awesome and totally comfortable as is my Roadeo. They are just great bikes...really. So I am okay with the Riv Kool Aid label.

 

 

I use clipless on the Roadeo though. I love my Sidi shoes and the pedal system work with how I use the bike.

[Ron Mc]

How about the saddle kool aid?  Or even the weight weenie kool aid?  or the TDF kool aid?  Save 5 or 6 ounces on your saddle over a Brooks.  Buy all the padded pants and diapers you now need.  Then all the salves that you need.  This is cutting edge technology, or is it kool aid?  I'll say it again.  The last major milestone in bicycles was standardization of chain drive.  

[hsmitham]

Doug you crack me up :-)

~Hugh

[Daniel D.]

Different flavors are great.  Trouble arises when someone thinks any flavor other than the ones they choose are crap and only fools would drink it.

[Mike]

Too each their own. For me though, I'll take RBW Kool Aid over Rapha Kool Aid. For today anyway.

I feel fortunate to live in Portland where there are all kinds of different cycling types and communities out and about on the road. Sure, I've had some "serious" roadie types scoff at me as I pedal around in my MUSA shorts with a button up shirt and my Hilsen with its platform pedals, friction BE shifters, etc, but generally people are cool. I've also had the experience of passing those scoffing cyclist on a climb further down the road...

--mike

[Chris Lampe 2]

I can't really say I drank the Rivendell Kool-Aid but I have been positively influenced by Grant's ideas.  When I was first referred to RBW's website, I stuck around and studied it largely because I already held a lot of the same ideals.  High handlebars, wide-range gearing, fatter tires, comfortable position, utility, etc...   However, Grant's ideas did get me back on steel after a 5-year hiatus where I rode Aluminum and he inspired me to spec my own build from the frameset up.  Also, even though I had always ridden 35-38mm tires, my inclination was to go skinnier.  Grant changed that.  I've been using friction thumbshifters and I might just end up using bar-ends on my soon-to-happen drop bar conversion.  Neither of those would have ever happened if not for Grant's writing.

 

I don't particularly care about lugs or fancy paint or leather saddles or pull-back handlebars.  I prefer a bike that leans more toward the "agile" side of things than the "stable" side.  You'd have to pay me a significant amount of money to get me to go bike camping or touring or riding in the rain so all the braze-ons are wasted on me (my bike does have them though). 

 

All in all, Grant and RBW have influence me in some very positive ways but I can't say I've drank the Kool-Aid. 

 

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:33:04 PM UTC-5, Corwin Booth wrote:

[George Millwood]

I have drunk the Kool Aid and I'm proud of it.  My Atlantis is the perfect road bike for me, a sixty plus trundler of a cyclist who enjoys riding and couldn't give a hot buttered stuff for racing.  My other bikes are a Specialized Shark beach cruiser which is essential as I live on a beach in Australia and a Birdy folding bike for which I'm waiting delivery.  The Shark has a Brooks B68, King Cage and a Carradice and I'm planning a whole lot of other Rivendell bling for it and the Birdy. 

 

Wollongong is a rust belt city by the sea that used to be a steel town and is fast becoming a University town.  We have a wide range of cycle styles meeting down by the beach for an espresso.  However, the serious lycra set meet at Diggies café and the rest of us meet at the North Beach Kiosk.  Both cafes are part of the same building and run by the same management but serious lycra does not speak to the Others.  That is their problem and their Kool Aid, I would include the rather earthy Australian retort for these people but it would probably grossly offend a lot of innocent people.  It has something to do with inserting their bicycle pump in the most inappropriate part of their anatomy for reasons of self gratification.  But you must realise that Australians have always been rather blunt and to the point. 

[Robert Barr]

It took George's note from Australia to motivate me to respond. Aside from the bicycle pump, Wollongong and Indianapolis sound similar, even down to a bit of rust belt heritage. As I read the earlier responses I kept thinking that I have never had anything but compliments about my Hungapillar, but then I think the only riders that might want to disparage the bike, seem to ride on Tuesday and Thursday nights - and then only as a group off to themselves, whereas I am a commuter and not a pack animal...If I were an ethnosociologist I might find all this really interesting. Bob

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 7:57 PM, George Millwood <george....@bigpond.com> wrote:

I have drunk the Kool Aid and I'm proud of it.  My Atlantis is the perfect road bike for me, a sixty plus trundler of a cyclist who enjoys riding and couldn't give a hot buttered stuff for racing.  My other bikes are a Specialized Shark beach cruiser which is essential as I live on a beach in Australia and a Birdy folding bike for which I'm waiting delivery.  The Shark has a Brooks B68, King Cage and a Carradice and I'm planning a whole lot of other Rivendell bling for it and the Birdy. 

 

Wollongong is a rust belt city by the sea that used to be a steel town and is fast becoming a University town.  We have a wide range of cycle styles meeting down by the beach for an espresso.  However, the serious lycra set meet at Diggies café and the rest of us meet at the North Beach Kiosk.  Both cafes are part of the same building and run by the same management but serious lycra does not speak to the Others.  That is their problem and their Kool Aid, I would include the rather earthy Australian retort for these people but it would probably grossly offend a lot of innocent people.  It has something to do with inserting their bicycle pump in the most inappropriate part of their anatomy for reasons of self gratification.  But you must realise that Australians have always been rather blunt and to the point. 

--

[Corwin Booth]

I've really enjoyed reading all these takes on the "problem"! I probably should have said that something like 99% of folks are simply interested or complimentary of the whole setup... I live in the Bay Area, so I'm hardly unusual. It's just funny how sometimes I feel like a Company Spokeman just because I'm riding the gear. I find it ironic that somebody else, who also is looking like a company spokesman in their team kit is talking to me about my Kool Aid, lol. Love to all!

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:33:04 PM UTC-7, Corwin Booth wrote:

[hsmitham]

My suggestion is grow a ridiculously long beard and the comments cease...chalk it up to a crazy guy on a bike.

~Hugh 

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:33:04 PM UTC-7, Corwin Booth wrote:

[Curtis McKenzie]

I will second the beard thing.

--

[Z]

I just built up my first full-suspension mountain bike with flat pedals and a leather saddle attached to a crabon seatpost.  I'm not sure which beverage is to blame, but I thought some members might be amused.

- Zach in Moab

[William]

Because you called it "crabon" you are a BSNYC koolaid drinker.  EXPOSED!  ;-)

[dougP]

Even a short beard wards off "those people", especially if it's grey & white :-).  Rear view mirror, wool socks w/sandals & they don't even have to see your bike to "just know". 

dougP

[Eric Platt]

Around here, a short beard, grey & white, will probably get the comment - "so you work for Surly?"    Only have had a couple of comments over the years on my Rivendell bikes.  And they are usually by riders either on custom steel frames, or fixed-gear messenger types.  Most "regular" cyclists around here have no idea or interest in Rivendell. 

 

While there are a lot of modern technology bikes around here, there are still a lot of riders on steel.  Surly, old Trek and now All City being the three I most often notice.  In fact, All City may be making a push to replace the Surly Cross Check as what I would consider the ubiquitous Twin Cities bicycle.

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Shaun Meehan]

If the person making the comment is riding an over-geared, uncomfortable, ultra-light-weight racing bike that is of no use on anything other than smooth pavement, with no tire clearance, no fender clearance, and no ability to mount racks or bags, while wearing shoes that make it difficult for them to walk, and is not actively participating in a bike race; then who has drunk the Koolaid?

Shaun Meehan

--

[Patrick Moore]

Please, let's not build up our own little corners of zealotry. I know more than a few friendly riders who put in far more miles than I do in billboard lycra and on billboard carbon fiber. Not my taste, but they are not all posers or dupes.

Y'all behave or I'll post another photo of Reg Harris.

Patrick "no beard; pony tail" Moore, in bike-friendly, live-and-let-live ABQ, NM who rides (in summer) in street shorts and Hawaiian shirts (at least until he can afford to buy a couple Ground Effect jerseys from NZ.

[Shaun Meehan]

Not trying to build a bastion of zealotry. Not at all. I have friends that wear spandex and ride plastic bikes. My point is that those guys are very likely more influenced by industry marketing and hype than your average Rivendell (or any other practical bike) rider. So who are they to be making accusations of Koolaid drinking?

Shaun Meehan

[Mike Schiller]

not too interested in sugary drinks either... is there a cult that drinks hand crafted ales?   

~mike 

[Hugh Smitham]

The cult of SoCal Riv riders a beer  drinking we will go...err pedal.

~Hugh "I Love the froth on my stash" Smitham

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Mike Schiller <mikey...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

not too interested in sugary drinks either... is there a cult that drinks hand crafted ales?   

~mike 

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[cyclotourist]

Speaking of such... September in Santa Monica is always nice...

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Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[cyclotourist]

14, 15, 18, 19 anyone?

[Hugh Smitham]

Oh David twist my arm. I'm free on Saturday the 22nd.

Hugh

Sunland, Ca

[James Warren]

Tell-me-my-next-duty-for-the-greater-good.

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jimcw...@earthlink.net

- 700x55

[cyclotourist]

I'm probably not around that weekend.

[Hugh Smitham]

How about the 14th or 28th? 

Hugh

Sunland, Ca

[Mike Schiller]

I'm open any day except the 14th.  Fridays are better as theer are more Metrolink trains scheduled but I can make Sat or Sun work too.  

~mike

[cyclotourist]

15th?

On 9/9/13, Mike Schiller <mikey...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> I'm open any day except the 14th. Fridays are better as theer are more
> Metrolink trains scheduled but I can make Sat or Sun work too.
>
> ~mike
>
> On Monday, September 9, 2013 8:18:56 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> 14, 15, 18, 19 anyone?
>>

>> On 9/9/13, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> > Speaking of such... September in Santa Monica is always nice...
>> >
>> > On 9/9/13, Hugh Smitham <hughs...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> >> The cult of SoCal Riv riders a beer drinking we will go...err pedal.
>> >>
>> >> ~Hugh "I Love the froth on my stash" Smitham
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Mike Schiller

>> >> <mikey...@rocketmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:

>> >>
>> >>> not too interested in sugary drinks either... is there a cult that
>> >>> drinks
>> >>> hand crafted ales?
>> >>>
>> >>> ~mike
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> --
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[Hugh Smitham]

Let's make a separate post for this anyone? I'll do it if no one wants to plan it. Let me know?

Hugh

Sunland, Ca

[Hugh Smitham]

Yeah Sunday won't work for me unless we start really early and get off the bikes by 12 noon...I'm out on a Sunday I don't want to rush myself or anyone else.

Hugh

Sunland, Ca

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[James Warren]

All Sundays are bad for me. Saturday's about all I can do.

[cyclotourist]

Saturdays nix Brian, would be nice to get him to a ride in his back
yard there, but Sundays seem to be rough for everyone else. I'm okay
either, but Sats are preferred.

[ascpgh]

A guy who rides with our Tuesday evening group comes with his bike in his decrepit old hatchback, but his other car is a Lotus Elise, which is funny to me. It is the auto equivalent of the ultra-llight weight racing bike for smooth pavement only, no ability to carry a bike or luggage. Car Kool-Aid, but he rides a Richard Sachs CX bike with a JB paint job, subscribes to BQ and is a committed lugged steel bike guy who continues to give any bike a try that is available for a test ride. I think he has been to at least the last six or seven Cirques du Cyclism and always asks if  I am available for D2R2 (not this year).

If I am more of a generalist, seeking greatest utility of my purchases, then I have a Kool-Aid smile too. And a Subaru wagon, a first year Ram with aluminum fenders, an English leather saddle and try to travel with what I can fit in and on my Nelson Long flap.

Andy Cheatham 

Pittsburgh

[jimD]

👍

On Sep 7, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Daniel D. <dddo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Different flavors are great.  Trouble arises when someone thinks any flavor other than the ones they choose are crap and only fools would drink it.

[Ron Mc]

my blinking headlight catches smirks from half the people who are riding without blinking headlights no matter what kind of bike they're riding or what they're wearing.  It don't skin my teeth.  Knock your lights out.  Anyone looking for something to take exception with is going to find it.  The issue isn't other bikes, the issue is cars - be careful out there.  

[Patrick Moore]

Here in and around ABQ, NM, even the roadies are generally friendly and appreciative of lesser breeds without the law (Kipling said that). I often get a thumbs up or "Nice bike!" or at least, "How *old* is that???!!!" from carbonarios. 

Funny: perhaps it's just my temperament, but the adrenaline surges and I bristle when I come across a pack of billboard roadies. T'other day, riding home from church on a pavement route to dirt, I turned a corner to find six young roadie bucks coming the other direction. I swear, the blood pressure rose, the hearbeat increased, the grip tightened, the legs churned -- amazing (and rather funny -- slow mo agression!).

Patrick "it's not a contest, but my biochemistry thinks it is" Moore

[George Millwood]

Ah Patrick, you've stirred memories.  A couple of months back, I was doing my usual morning jaunt up and down the coast when I hit the fast part.  This is  a stretch of main road I use to join two quiet bits.  'Tanyrate I work up a bit of speed say 25mph - flat chat on my Specialized Shark beach cruiser; 40lbs, 50mm tyres with an off road style tread - and I come to the traffic lights where there is a bunch of serious lycra just getting underway.  I cannot resist, I sweep around them, baggy shorts flapping, tyres buzzing and yell out "C'mon fellas pick up the pace!"  In five seconds they're gone past in a wave of grim intent.  Not even a call, but then I was laughing so much I wouldn't have heard. 

Something about riding brings out the child in me, I'm sixty six, can't run as I have herniated disks, can't walk long distances as a kneecap floats about but I can ride for hours.  I can climb hills, although not on the Shark, dawdle along the cycle path through the kids and the dogs, sprint down a quiet road, and linger on that stretch of the cycle path that follows the ridge of the sand dunes overlooking the beach. 

[Patrick Moore]

The Walter Mitty-ish denouement of our cycling dreams:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0NA4dxkdnQ

My brother owned a clapped out '66 Chevelle back in college, circa 1980 He delighted in pulling up beside a Porsche at a red light, looking over challengingly and revving the engine, and see the P take off in a squeal of burnt rubber.

Patrick "boys will never grow up, please God" Moore, chortling in ABQ, NM at this relief from excessive earnestness.

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:44 AM, George Millwood <george....@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ah Patrick, you've stirred memories.  A couple of months back, I was doing my usual morning jaunt up and down the coast when I hit the fast part.  This is  a stretch of main road I use to join two quiet bits.  'Tanyrate I work up a bit of speed say 25mph - flat chat on my Specialized Shark beach cruiser; 40lbs, 50mm tyres with an off road style tread - and I come to the traffic lights where there is a bunch of serious lycra just getting underway.  I cannot resist, I sweep around them, baggy shorts flapping, tyres buzzing and yell out "C'mon fellas pick up the pace!"  In five seconds they're gone past in a wave of grim intent.  Not even a call, but then I was laughing so much I wouldn't have heard. 

Something about riding brings out the child in me, I'm sixty six, can't run as I have herniated disks, can't walk long distances as a kneecap floats about but I can ride for hours.  I can climb hills, although not on the Shark, dawdle along the cycle path through the kids and the dogs, sprint down a quiet road, and linger on that stretch of the cycle path that follows the ridge of the sand dunes overlooking the beach. 

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[William]

Remember, "drinking the koolaid" doesn't mean you agree with some opinion-maker.  "Drinking the koolaid" means you agree with some opinion-maker WITHOUT THINKING FOR YOURSELF.  If you have your own opinions and just happen to agree with Grant on some of them, you didn't drink the koolaid.  

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:33:04 PM UTC-7, Corwin Booth wrote:

I was trying to think of some clever reference to the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, but failed.

Probably the *only* think I don't like about riding my Hilsen are the occasional snarky comments about having imbibed in the Petersen Kool Aid. Never mind that everyone knows that we drink miruvor, or that I just happen to agree with riding with normal shoes, fenders, the "largest saddlebag I've ever seen!" (that was another comment, not uttered in an entirely friendly way), after years of experience...

So I really want to respond by saying something about how this person or that drank the clipless Kool Aid, or the skinny tire Kool Aid, or the plastic saddle Kool Aid, and certainly the Karbon Kool Aid. But I never do.

I'll bet other folks on this list have experienced this phenomenon...

[Ron Mc]

I love the ride of latex tubes - I was just reading on the Cyclocross.com website that I drink the koolaid, too.  

[Patrick Moore]

It's a Jim Jones/Jonestown reference.

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:45 AM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Remember, "drinking the koolaid" doesn't mean you agree with some opinion-maker.  "Drinking the koolaid" means you agree with some opinion-maker WITHOUT THINKING FOR YOURSELF.  If you have your own opinions and just happen to agree with Grant on some of them, you didn't drink the koolaid.  

[William]

I know where the term originated.  The phrase is now used metaphorically, not literally.  I pointed out that metaphorical meaning and I think you know that meaning.  What exactly is your point?

[Patrick Moore]

William -- please don't be so touchy! I was pointing out to all readers in case some might not know the origin (note the reference earlier to the Tom Wolfe term).

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[William]

Not touchy in the slightest.  I use exclamation points when I get touchy.  When I'm merely interrogative I use question marks.

Thanks for explaining that your post was not a reply to me but a public service to those who didn't know the idiom.  

[William]

Speaking of fun idioms and their sources, I just learned where the word "SCOFFLAW" came from.  Does anyone else know (without looking it up)?  Go ahead and look it up.  It's an amusing story, to me at least.  

[Michael Flournoy]

Quote: "a short beard wards off "those people", especially if it's grey & white :-).  Rear view mirror, wool socks w/sandals"

Ahem...Apparently I was drinking the KoolAid before I even knew there was a guy named Peterson. : ) 

It's not so much we've been sold on something as being reassured you're maybe OK after all.

[Hugh Smitham]

It's not so much we've been sold on something as being reassured you're maybe OK after all. Yes that's it isn't it. 

~Hugh

Hugh

Sunland, Ca

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