I love 42s

[Brian Hanson]

I have lately been coming to the conclusion that I want to standardize on a wheel tire combo that sadly doesn't work with my 59cm 700c Homer.  I have been riding Hetre ELs all summer on my rando bike (Toussaint) that is a near sizing copy of my Homer, but is low trail and 650b.  Now both bikes are nice, but the Homer is lighter, prettier, and my first love.  On my ride home tonight on the 33s, however, I really felt the difference in comfort compared to the plush 42s.  I've also been riding the Hetres tubeless (PL23 rims) and love the flat protection and even lower pressures that feel right with these wheels (25 front, 35 rear).  

Ideally, I would just do a 650b conversion on Homer, and life would be grand.  That or find someone who wants 700c willing to trade a 58-60 Homer/Saluki for my copper beaut?  That seems a bit far-fetched, however.  I found an old thread on "large 650b Homers", but didn't see any info on conversions.  I would have to give up the Paul brakes and go with longer reach Silvers, but that's not really a problem for me.  Has anyone else had this revelation?  What was the result?

BTW - pics of the two bikes -  the side shots shows the similar crank height against the door: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjYpKpfL

Brian Hanson

Seattle, WA

Bike Blog

[Chris Chen]

Stonehog: you haven't lived until you've rolled on 650B-50

Cruise Ship Style, my friend.

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[Tony DeFilippo]

That AHH is sharp looking, I love the color. I can't say I blame you on the desire for 42's all around... They feel 'right' to me as well. Can't you get 38's on the AHH? Maybe the Soma C-Lines or one of the new Compass tires?

Regardless they are both great looking and well at up bikes... Very nice photos too!

[Tony DeFilippo]

well SET up, not at up...

And to answer your conversion question my experience with doing it to a '82 Trek is that it's definitely possible and a fun project but for a daily rider the small compromises involved in the conversion degraded the riding experience over time. On those Trek's I'd still love to try a Peter Weigle style 'creative restoration' that involved 650b but I'm far more satisfied by my 650b designed frames.

I'd try some wider 700c tires on the AHH and keep your eyes out for a Saluki...

[Tim Gavin]

Just a note, the reach of Paul Racers is 57-67mm, and it looks like your pads are already at the bottom of the slot.

Tektro r559/Silvers have a reach of 53-73 mm--only 6 mm more than the Racers. 

700c to 650b is 622 mm - 584 = 38 mm difference (diameter), 19 mm radius. 
Your current reach is ~60 mm, + 19 mm.
So you'd need brakes in the 80+ mm range, which are only low-end cruiser/BMX side pulls.  Nowhere near the braking power of your Pauls.

So 650b conversion wouldn't be as easy as you hope.  You're not converting a skinny tire 700c bike; the 700c Homers should have about the same clearance as the 650b ones. 

Actually, the geometry chart claims 700x43.  So, I agree with Tony D., try some wider 700c tires.  The 700x38 Compass Barlow Pass EL should get you 90% of the wide tire cush of the Hetre.  You may struggle with the fender clearance, however.

Tim

[ted]

You can order 58cm 650b AHHs from RBW new. I think the wait time is shorter than usual right now. I also think a 58 was posted on the list recently. I suspect a 60 Saluki is going to be a hard to get item. Since Legolass can still be ordered and single top tube Bombadils have been made, perhaps RBW would do a 60cm 650b AHH as a special order for a minimal up charge ( I.e. Not the full cost for a custom bike).
Looking at your photo, I suspect you could get the fit you want with the 58 size. Do you have 1cm of stem above the limit line hiding in your head tube?

[Madam Xylene]

According to Riv web info, AHH can take 38's with fenders. I'd go with Compass 38's. Eileen

[Humphapillar]

Maybe take the fenders off, put on the 42mm's, and buy a lightweight wetsuit?

Or change to flat fenders?

I asked Cody at Woody's Fenders to make me some front & back custom flat chopped short fenders with stays, so I could run whatever size tires I wanted on my Hunqapillar. I plagiarized the idea from Deacon Patrick whose fenders are much prettier than mine.

These flat fenders don't reach through the fork.

Patrick posted something w/ pics awhile back about his shorties.
 
I also wanted to have more clearance for coping with sticks, since I know someone who was paralyzed from the neck down after going head over handlebars, so this killed two birds with one stone.

I think you would regret selling that beautiful Homer.

John 

[Bill Lindsay]

Brian

I PM'd you to talk about a trade concept.  

Out here in public I'll report that I have run short reach brakes and 700xskinny wheels on my 650B Hilsen, which was kind of fun.  You might be able to convert in the other direction, but you'd be pedal-dragging low to the ground and would need crazy long reach calipers.  It's possible, but probably not ideal.  

Bill

On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:45:06 PM UTC-7, stonehog wrote:

[Jim Bronson]

I see the BB drop on a 59cm AHH is 80mm. I would say that an 80mm
drop is pretty low from my experience with such a 650b conversion, but
not so much so that I want to go back to 700c. I have dragged the
pedals a few more times, but I just chalk it off to needing to
remember to not pedal through sharp corners.

Of course, I can only get in 38s and if the inner chainstays are like
my custom, e.g. without the indentation for the larger tiers, it's
likely the AHH can only take 38s as well.

Is there really that much difference between a 38 and a 42? My custom
is my first love as well, I wouldn't trade it off just because it
won't take a 42.

although...

Thinking about getting it repainted and as part of that process having
the inner chainstays widened enough to take a 42 and 50mm Honjos. ;)

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[Mike Schiller]

The difference between 38 and 42 mm tires? About 16% more volume, which feels like quite a bit to me. Does a 650B Hilsen fit a hetre and fender with much well? I thought it was tight?

~mike

[James Warren]

I don't recall there being published anywhere whether there are clearance differences between the 700C Hilsen and the 650B Hilsen. It would be an interesting comparison. If they are the same, then a bike trade to 650B won't solve Brian's problem.

But I, like others, am curious about whether the 700x38 Barlow Pass would be a good enough substitute for a Hetre on a Hilsen. I'm pretty sure that size (38) is fenderable on the Hilsen of any wheel size. I really like the Barlow Pass a lot, and would see it as ideal for a Hilsen, but since I have never dwelt in the Hetre paradise (of which so many speak), I won't presume that a rider who knows the Hetre experience wouldn't feel there is some tradeoff when using another tire.

-Jim W.

[Tony DeFilippo]

A 650B Saluki (60cm) fits 42's w/ fenders... SKS cromoplasts most recently.

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[David Hays]

I've got Hetres and Velo Orange Zeppelin fenders on my 56 cm Homer 650B. 

Reasonable space to me.

David 

Sent from my iPad

[Chris Chen]

I just bought the 58cm that was on the list recently and I'm waiting for it to arrive. With the 57 Hilsen still in for repairs, I've been wondering what name to give it.

Figure I'll just call the 58 Saluki

And maybe I'll call the 57 Heinz Homer Hilsen, or maybe Pat Robertson's 700 Club

[ted]

By way of counterpoint,
Based on my recent experience going from 32s to 40+ on my AHH, I doubt I would feel much of a difference between 38 and 42. I'm not trying to say anybody who feels they have to have 42s is wrong, but for me I doubt it warrants he fuss. I expect some other folks might find the same if they did the experiment themselves.

[stonehog]

I put the Barlow's on when they came out and rode it for a few weeks.  I had VO Zeppelins and there were two issues.  Lots of toe overlap, and it felt "big" to me.  In a ponderous way, I guess.  It was much less nice than the Cypres tires I was used to, and the overlap was annoying so it killed it for me.  I sold 'em.  Pics: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjV5G7RQ

Tim - good info on the conversion - I appreciate the detailed response!  I have heard that it can be rough, and when it comes to brakes, I don't want to go to a less than good situation.  

As for the 38s being like the 42s.  Nope - I can really feel the difference.  Don't know if its the smaller wheels - I also love the 26" compass tires - fast and plush - also 40+mm.  

Bill - I'll be chatting with you shortly...

Brian

[Brian Campbell]

+1. I run the Compass EL 38mm tires on my Hilsen (with full fenders) and they are fantastic!

[ted]

Stonehog, just to clarify, are you saying you feel a difference between 38 and 42 650b tires, or are you comparing 38 700c tires to 42 650b? Was the comparison done with a single bike?

[EGNolan]

He was comparing his 700c bike w/ 38's to his 650b bike w/ 42's as many have suggested he just try 38 Compass tires (which he states he already did).

[Patrick Moore]

Can diaconal Patrick or someone else point me to this pic link?

Patrick [ie, the non-diaconal one] Moore who is wondering about Compass 559X38s for at least one of his 26" Rivendell customs.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Humphapillar <jphil...@icloud.com> wrote:

Patrick [ie, the diaconal one] posted something w/ pics [ie, of flat or partial fenders] awhile back about his shorties.
 

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[ted]

Like you I think this is what Stonehog meant. If it is, then his issue is not that he wants fatter tires than will fit on his 700c Hilsen. It is that he prefers 650b over 700c for "wide" tires. So it's not that 42 is so much nicer than 38, its that 650b is much nicer than 700c (for him of course, Im not trying to make any sort of absolute global whats better than what sort of claim re wheel size).

[Deacon Patrick]

Is this what you're looking for: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/14184178072/

That photo and quite a few to the right show the front and read fenders on the Hunqapillar. I ended up taking them off because I prefer no fenders with knobbies.

With abandon,

Patrick, the diaconal one.