"Last run" of Sams?

[Reid]

Just received the latest email from Riv. Highlights the black Sam frames coming in, mentions frames coming in of the usual blue, then says, "Last run." Sounds ominous. Does that mean what I think it means? Like if I kinda' think I want one, I'd better pry open my checkbook and shake out all the moths?

Reid

[drew]

seems like a hiatus of at least a year. the ominous tone and the upcoming projects make me think it will be more than that. i was up there last weekend and they said that they received about 100 frames in this last shipment. speaking as someone who bought a sam when they financially really shouldnt have....do it. 

[Garth]

"last ones" ?

I think not !   For example , the 64cm. Sams are built by Waterford to order . Yes, they cost more , $2k I believe .... but so what .  If these can be made in a 64 to order, then I see no reason why if at any time any size can also be made by them for the same price if someone really wants one . 

[dougP]

The blug says "....last batch for a while....", then goes on to say they need to make room for the Clems.  So they don't plan to retire Sam but my guess is that if you want one in the immediate future now's the time to jump on it.  Sam & Clem are relatively affordable compared to an Atlantis or Homer because they are made in larger runs.  More frames means more dollars in inventory.  It's a balancing act. 

dougP

[Lungimsam]

I'd like to see a super lightweight tubing Rivendell road bike made for upright, or low bars set up. Why pedal around anymore bulk than necessary, and they already have plenty-o-beefy frames on the roster for touring/heavy loading as is.

[Garth]

 One of my bikes is a lovely custom Franklin "sport/touring" frame from 1999 , made with Reynolds 531 ST(super tourist) , which is slightly heavier than the C , competition .   I had it made intending it as a road bike and used it like that for many years .  A few years ago I changed the setup completely with a high stem and Alba bars and all  .  All I can say is it rides like dream, even with 35mm tires .  My Bombadil by contrast, feels like a tank, stiff,, regardless of the tires.  The 531 ST steel , with long chainstays and TT make for a much more "supple" ride than the Bombadil .  To me, a near perfect balance between stiffness and suppleness . 

So yes .... lighter bikes can easily be used with high bars and all , and you don't need big (40mm +) tires either , as if the frame is done right it is naturally more compliant over rough-er roads .

[RoadieRyan]

Um I think you have just described the Rodeo

[Fullylugged]

Hmm, Here's a snippet from an RBW newsletter in 2007:

"We have introduced a new model (A. Homer Hilsen) recently, and some others are coming up, so rather than overwhelm ourselves with too many models, we're putting the Rambouillet to sleep for a while. The alarm clock is set for "sometime in late '08, more'n likely." We do have a few 50cm and 52cm frames and complete bikes ($2350) still available. Sometimes they're listed in the "Web Specials" section but not always. Call to check inventory."

The nap continues.  So, as is usual with Riv, if you think you might want it and they have it, buy it.  Or watch this list for resales down the road.

[Reid]

On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 4:00:04 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:

Hmm, Here's a snippet from an RBW newsletter in 2007:

"We have introduced a new model (A. Homer Hilsen) recently, and some others are coming up, so rather than overwhelm ourselves with too many models, we're putting the Rambouillet to sleep for a while. The alarm clock is set for "sometime in late '08, more'n likely." We do have a few 50cm and 52cm frames and complete bikes ($2350) still available. Sometimes they're listed in the "Web Specials" section but not always. Call to check inventory."

The nap continues.  So, as is usual with Riv, if you think you might want it and they have it, buy it.  Or watch this list for resales down the road.

Yeah, I kept dithering with the Rambs, never made a decision, and still kick myself over that one. But I love that putting them "to sleep for a while." Yeah, like permanently. So now it's "deja-vu all over again" with the Sam. What am I gonna do??? I think I have trouble letting go of noticeable chunks of money.  :-)

Reid

[cyclotourist]

Sleeping with the fish.

Once a Riv goes away, it doesn't come back.

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[James Warren]

As great as the Ram is, and as great as it was in the Riv lineup, it sort of lost some of its unique mission when the Silver brake and the AHH came along - the bikes evolved. Now I'm not going to say that the Ram and AHH are interchangeable, but my point is that a lot of factors go into these decisions, and I'm not going to assume that 2008's sleep means the same thing as 2016's sleep. A big difference between now and then is that then there was that big tire clearance advancement (with the Silver brake) while today the Hillborne already does great things clearance-wise. I'm gonna say the crystal ball is too cloudy to make predictions on this one. On the other hand, maybe the Joe Appaloosa will bring some developments that will do to the Hillborne what AHH did to the Ram. But again, there are way too many factors for me to feel comfortable making predictions. But it does sound to me like they're more into keeping Sam going than they were with Ram back in the day.

-Jim W.

James Warren

jimcw...@earthlink.net

- 700x33

[drew]

anyone in the bay area see the protovelo frame they have in back? i visited for the first time last weekend, saw it, and they described it as "like a sam, but with cantis and bigger clearances. it will probably be out in a couple of years".  that's all the info i got, and for my personal needs, that is too much crossover with atlantis and hunq. if we can assume the future based on the past, i'd be inclined to get a sam now... especially if you like the way the sam is now. 

[James Warren]

Yes! That's Joe Appaloosa.

On May 27, 2015, at 10:39 PM, drew wrote:

anyone in the bay area see the protovelo frame they have in back? i visited for the first time last weekend, saw it, and they described it as "like a sam, but with cantis and bigger clearances. it will probably be out in a couple of years".  that's all the info i got, and for my personal needs, that is too much crossover with atlantis and hunq. if we can assume the future based on the past, i'd be inclined to get a sam now... especially if you like the way the sam is now. 

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[Lungimsam]

A super lightweight, thin walled, low trailed, canti'd, Rivrando machine with an integrated SILVER front rack with light mount on the USA side of the rack and integrated light wiring/carbon brush in the steerer would make me very interested.

And it's something they haven't done before.

And it would be fun for commuting for those who like front bags and lights.

[Joe Bernard]

I think the Sam will be back, as the Appaloosa and Clem are both niche bikes. Mr. Hillborne strikes me as the Standard Riv which all others kind of branch off. If you remember motorcycles back in the '80s, we had the Standard, which was a basic do-everything bike you just called "a motorcycle"; then there were Sport, Cruiser and Touring models which had more specific missions. To me the Sam is Riv's "a bicycle". I don't see it leaving the line permanently.

Joe "I always liked Standards" Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[Tony DeFilippo]

Sweet tech drawings of the 4 Sam sizes on the blug right now... Is love the same at for my two Ribs as garage wall hangers!

The constant product development/tweaking from Riv is one of the more entertaining elements of this company. In my mind it also highlights the Atlantis for its relatively static (and gorgeous) design.

[Tim Gavin]

That sounds like an awesome bike.  For my information, what is the "USA" side of the front rack for light mounting?  Is one side or the other more "traditional"?

This question was bandied about a couple weeks ago, and I thought it came down to personal preference.

Personally, I set up two bikes with Luxos U's mounted to the handlebars with the B&M bar mount.  It's not as elegant as a rack-side mount, but I have soooo much beam with the light that high.

Tim

[Ginz]

Spot on, Jim.  The long reach brake changed everything.

I'm *still* looking for one of those centerpull'd Salukis.

[Lungimsam]

I'm calling the non-drive side of the bike the USA side.
I don't think there is a right or wrong side to install a light, though.
Just personal preference.

[Jim Bronson]

What Lungimsam said. It would also make an excellent rando bike,
which is 50% of my usage, the other 50% being recreational rides.

About the comment about the USA side...some USA riders install their
dyno lights on the right side even though they have the option to
install on the left. I guess they can see the side of the road better
that way. I personally would prefer it in the front.

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Lungimsam]

I am calling it the USA side because it puts the light in the travel lane when riding on the shoulder or near the fog line in the USA.

Any mounting position that works to ones taste is the correct mounting position of course.

[Patrick Moore]

Does the Rivendell model accommodate low trail? I rather hope Riv doesn't jump on the low trail bandwagon, and that they keep their signature handling -- though, to the extent that they push Wald baskets and big front racks, they may well be tending in that direction.

Glad I got my customs when I did!

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[Jim M.]

On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 11:20:07 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:

A super lightweight, thin walled, low trailed, canti'd, Rivrando machine with an integrated SILVER front rack with light mount on the USA side of the rack and integrated light wiring/carbon brush in the steerer would make me very interested.

Have you ridden low trailed and liked it? If so, there are good builders who do that. GP has explained his ideas of handling numerous times over the years, and I doubt he'll be changing his mind:

http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=34

I agree with him, which is why I like the way Riv's handle. If you like Riv handling and want a light bike, get a Roadeo. If you want low trail, you'll have to get a non-Riv.

[Will]

I think this low trail vs high trail issue is overly philosophized.

When I was delivering newspapers, years ago, I needed a bike designed for 40 pound front loads. Worksman makes them.

If I did 200K randoneurring, like Jan Heine, I'd want a very fast bike that carried 8 pounds of stuff in front and a had a map platform. Boulder makes them.

However... what I need these days is: a bike racked in the rear for a pannier for shopping and commuting. Because I want an uncluttered front for lights. Ergo Rivendell.

Which is to say: Riv's philosophy fits me. It covers 90% of my rides.

I have nothing against trail this-or-that, but I think overall use profile discussions are more relevant.

[Tim]

I have my Luxos U mounted on the front of a Mark's Rack on my Hilsen. I love it. There's no wheel shadow to deal with like when I had it on the fork crown. I assume mounting on the side of the rack would cast quite a shadow as well. Handlebar mounting would probably do the same but I like to keep all of the real estate available up there that I can.

[David Banzer]

Agreed. Riv won't be making a low trail rando bike - and I'd doubt they'd do that even as a custom. There are plenty of builders available to make those types of bikes though.
David
Chicago

On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 11:19:10 AM UTC-5, Jim M. wrote:

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 11:39:52 PM UTC-6, drew wrote:

anyone in the bay area see the protovelo frame they have in back? i visited for the first time last weekend, saw it, and they described it as "like a sam, but with cantis and bigger clearances. it will probably be out in a couple of years".  that's all the info i got, and for my personal needs, that is too much crossover with atlantis and hunq. if we can assume the future based on the past, i'd be inclined to get a sam now... especially if you like the way the sam is now. 

Man, I'd love to see a spy shot of this.   Long chainstays too, right?   I know I keep harping on this, but I'm actually hoping that this model  DOES have a lot of overlap with the Atlantis and Hunq. - but is offered in the in-between sizes, for people that those models don't currently accommodate.  All of which brings up the main thing I wanted to add here:  If you're on the fence about getting a Sam, the BEST reason to take the plunge right now, would be if one of the current sizes fit you well.  Riv's trend in recent years,  of offering models in fewer and fewer sizes, means that even if a suitable and somewhat similar replacement became available (like the the Ram > Homer), there's no guarantee that it will be offered in a size that's ideal for you. 

[Bruce Herbitter]

Not that this is thread drift or anything...

My Ram has 62.3mm of trail, the Saluki had 61.5. Both intended for no more than a light front bag like a L'il Loafer. They track around curvy descents like they are on rails. Love it.

My Road has 53.8mm of trail and the Waterford 1100 I used to pedal had 54.2. A UJB Nashbar lugged steel frame has 54.9. All have great quick handling and could dodge other riders or road obstacles instantly.  Love it.

My latest 650B conversion, an '84 TREK 660, now sports 52.6mm trail. Love it maybe the most, but I think that is more the springy Reynolds 531CS tubeset than anything else.

Can I pedal any of them no hands? yes. Do I want to load all of them down with bags? No.

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[Chris Chen]

In the words of fat tony, "that's a fine looking model. It would be a shame if it where to be <cracks knuckles> discontinued"

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