Rambouillet vs. Bleriot: your take on it.

[Lungimsam]

1. If you have owned both, what are the diffs in ride quality?

2. How does the 700c or 26" wheels make it feel different than the 650b Bleriot?

3. Front loads. Do they both carry them well?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/02/2015 03:33 PM, Lungimsam wrote:
> 1. If you have owned both, what are the diffs in ride quality?

I owned a Rambouillet and a Saluki, Bleriot's older and fancier twin.  They both have a characteristic, identifieable "this is a Rivendell" ride; however since the Saluki can fit 42mm Hetres (I did, and I believe Tony, the current owner does too) there's that typical, wonderful "every road is a smooth road" silkiness to the ride of the Saluki that the Rambouillet, limited as it is to 28 mm tires (with fenders) can't begin to come close to.

Also: the Saluki is a great bike on gravel roads, as long as the grade doesn't get up into the teens and beyond.  There's a lot of wheel flop, and climbing a 14% grade on gravel in a 22" gear it's hard to maintain directional stability.  With 28mm tires the Rambouillet for me was entirely unsuitable for gravel, full stop.

>
> 2. How does the 700c or 26" wheels make it feel different than the
> 650b Bleriot?

See above re: ride.  But note, the geometry of the Rambouillet and the Saluki are very different.  73 degree head angle with the Rambouillet vs 71 degree with the Saluki.  That will have as much of an effect as the difference in tire size.

>
> 3. Front loads. Do they both carry them well?
>

I never carried a load on the front of the Rambouillet.  The Saluki had fittings for a rack, and I had a Berthoud rack on mine (yes, /that/ one).  Because the (largest size Berthoud) bag was supported on a rack low down, it handled loads fairly well, with just one exception.  Comparing the Saluki to the MAP Randonneur that replaced it, with the same weight of load when straightening up from a turn with the Saluki it felt as though I was lifting the load with the handlebars.  With the MAP you really don't feel the load at all.

[franklyn]

I owned both the Romulus (which is a twin to the Ramouillet) and the Bleriot. I looked through my pictures and they represented two slightly different phases of my bike preferences. I was transitioning away from racing bikes and the Romulus was my first foray into into functional steel bikes, and it was an open-wheeled club rider relatively "un-enhanced" by luggages and fenders. I got the Bleriot after I started riding brevets and it was racked, bagged and fendered from day 1. However, I find the handling, especially on descents to be pretty similar between the two. I don't know if tubing specs are similar. Bleriot could take fatter tires (I rode with 41mm fatty rumpkins) and that might have a hand in how I felt on the bike versus the Romulus.

[Michael Hechmer]

I too own both a Ram & a Saluki.  They are both great bikes.  The Ram is quicker and faster; the Saluki is just a bit less responsive and a bit more comfortable.  I run the Ram with fenders, a front rack & bag, White VBC compact double, and 29 mm Grand Bois Cerf tires.  I run the Saluki with fenders, front rack & bag, barley saddle bag, DaVinci triple crank and Pari-Moto tires.  Whenever I plan to ride decent paved roads I will always take the Ram; whenever I plan on lots of liesurly dirt roads, I take the Saluki.  When my plans change it doesn't matter because the Ram does fine on dirt & the Saluki does fine on pavement.

When I'm in the barn I'm careful what I say, not wanting to stir up bike resentment; but out of earshot, I think my converted Trek 620 with Pari Motos, does everything the Ram or Saluki can do, except keep me dry in the rain.  No dang fenders.

Michael

[Jack]

I have a 57cm Bleriot and a 58cm Rambouillet. They are two different bikes IMO. The Bleriot can handle much wider tires and that gives it an advantage on unpaved surfaces. It has a smoother, more comfortable ride although I attribute most of that to the wider, softer tires. The RAM is a little more responsive.  I've never put much of a front load on either so I can't answer that question.

If I could only own one of them, for my type of riding I think I'd pick the Bleriot. Interesting that this question has come up, both bikes have been discontinued for at least five years.

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:33:20 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned both (plus their twins, Romulus and Saluki), and think there's a slight bias towards tight-switchback-roads responsiveness to the 700c bikes, but not enough that you would notice a difference after a month of replacing one with the other. They all have that magic Riv ride which - in car terms - seems to meld the floating comfort of an old Chevy Impala with the lithe turning ability of a Porsche. I honestly don't know how Grant does it.

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:33:20 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

Some Rams will take at least 32s and possibly 35s and fenders. When I put 35 Kojaks on mine, there was still a great deal of room under bridges and crown and between fork legs and stays.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/02/2015 07:53 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Some Rams will take at least 32s and possibly 35s and fenders. When I put 35 Kojaks on mine, there was still a great deal of room under bridges and crown and between fork legs and stays.

Mine was one of the first orange ones.  I have no experience with the later ones.  It was, as I described, limited to 28mm with fenders.  However, the true, actual choke point was the Shimano long reach dual pivot sidepull brakes, which did not on their own open wide enough to even clear a 28 mm tire.

[Christopher Murray]

Howdy,

I had a 57cm Bleriot and my wife had a 50cm blue Ram. The Ram had 26 inch wheels and we ran 1.25 Paselas. There was ample room for fenders but we lived in Tucson so didn't have them installed. I can't say too much about the ride quality outside of the fact that she loved the Ram. I would describe the Ram as a road bike with more clearance and the Bleriot as a country bike. They were both very nice bikes but the Ram was much nicer if you inspected the details. I have only heard of problems on the early (Orange) bikes and I thought they were all larger sizes.

If you want a more traditional road bike, get the Ram. If you want more of a country/ gravel bike, get (keep?) the Bleriot.

Cheers!
Chris

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, you make a good point about frame details. If both frames were being produced today, the Toyo-built Ram would be a good deal more expensive than the Taiwan Bleriot. The cream/white fills are more accurate on the Ram, too. Money buys details.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/03/2015 09:43 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:
> Ah, you make a good point about frame details. If both frames were
> being produced today, the Toyo-built Ram would be a good deal more
> expensive than the Taiwan Bleriot. The cream/white fills are more
> accurate on the Ram, too. Money buys details.

In fact, the Toyo-built Saluki was a good deal more expensive back then
than the Taiwan Bleriot.

[Fullylugged]

Taiwan was a solution for the rising cost of Japanese frames. Currency values wrecked havoc on RBW's cash flow and were mentioned several times in GP's op ed bits. Toyo and Waterford were presented as equals, quality wise. Toyo forks or toyo supervised forks were used on Taiwan frames, iirc.

[Dave Johnston]

I have a 56cm Ram and a 57cm Bleriot with similar drop bar setups. I had 28mm tires on the Ram and have pari-moto 38mm tires on the Bleriot. Once I got the Bleriot up and running I basically stopped riding the Ram. The Pari-motos are so smooth and fast so the extra width doesn't seem to be a disadvantage. The Bleriot has an ultralight Tubas Luna rear rack while the Ram is rackless so sometimes the ability to hall more stuff swings me to use that bike as well.

answers
1. Ram is a bit quicker handling but both feel great. I actually prefer the more mellow handling of the Bleriot.
2. 700c Ram has toeclip overlap. 650b Bleriot does not.
3. Never ran either with a front load, other than one of the small acorn barsacks, and I don't notice that bag.

-Dave

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:33:20 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

The remarks on this thread about the Ram being slightly quicker in handling -- I take it that this means that the Ram is slightly quicker to turn into a corner -- are very interesting. I found the handling on my 58 cm Ram quite nice, but a wee bit slower in the turn than I cared for, one reason I sold it. The Ram was impeccably stable: think, coasting down a hill at 35+, and sitting up, taking your left hand off the bar, and looking over your left shoulder. Rock solid. But it felt to me a wee bit slow in the turn. (FWIW, my Ram was shod with 29 mm Parigi Roubaix.)

I've heard others say that the Roadeo is slightly quicker than the Ram; I'd love to try a Roadeo.

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[dailyrandonneur]

I've got both, a 59 Bleriot and a 58 Rambouillet. Both have Noodle bars and B-17 Brooks saddles.

The Bleriot with GB Cypres 32mm tires feels a tad flexier, but has more stable handling. When it arrived as a frameset I was impressed with how light it felt.

I had S&S couplers installed and rode this bike for a full brevet series and PBP in 2007. It was terrific.

The Rambouillet with 28mm Michelin tires feels stiffer, a bit more substantial, with somewhat quicker steering. I also rode brevets on this bike, and completed BMB in 2004 on it.

They are kind of different. Both are fun to ride, but the Bleriot tends toward comfort (the bigger tires make a difference) and I'd choose it for really long days in the saddle on less than perfect roads. It was the more pleasurable brevet bike, if not the fastest feeling.

The Rambouillet feels more like a road/sport bike, does great under hard efforts, with fine handling manners. My similar size '95 Ritchey Logic Road, also made by Toyo, is stiffer and has more of a snappy racing feel.

Happy 4th!

Ed Felker
Washington, DC

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:33:20 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

[Bruce Herbitter]

Great report Ed.  Happy 4th to you and Mary too.

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