Do you ever find yourself tempted by brifters?

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Jim Bronson

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Dec 10, 2015, 11:05:33 AM12/10/15
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I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?partNumber=YS-ST4600-BASE&catalogId=10052&storeId=10053&langId=-1&utm_source=nashbar&utm_medium=email&utm_content=151210Th&utm_campaign=Products&cm_mmc=Email-_-nashbar-_-151210Th-_-Products&cm_em=jim.b...@gmail.com&spMailingID=12498453&spUserID=NjA1MzcwOTY2NDES1&spJobID=643355659&spReportId=NjQzMzU1NjU5S0

And I find myself feeling conflicted. This is only a little more than
what Riv sells bar-ends for...

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Joe Bernard

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Dec 10, 2015, 11:27:54 AM12/10/15
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If you like click-shifting bar-ends, I see no reason not to try brifters. Those Shimano levers have a nice shape for riding on the hoods, and you might like not having to reach back to shift. A lot of RivBobs like bar-ends, but there's a reason there's so many brifters on the road. Check 'em out!


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 8:05:33 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

Tim Gavin

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Dec 10, 2015, 11:28:40 AM12/10/15
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A couple of my bikes have brifters (Foundry Auger - SRAM Rival 10s double tap, Giordana - Campy/Sachs 8s Ergopower)
One has grip-twist shifters (Specialized Fatboy - 10s SRAM XO)
Two have bar-ends, both currently in indexed mode (Riv Road/650b - 10s Shimano, Schwinn KOM - 9s Shimano)

I guess I'm saying that I prefer bar-ends on my touring bikes, but I'm ok with index or brifters too.  
Also, 10 speed Shimano bar-ends (index-only) are just $50 at Nasbar.  I'm very happy with mine, especially paired with TRP RRL brake levers, whose shape I prefer over the shape of Shimano brifters.


If you're gumming up the bar-ends with sweat residue, then it's a good thing that they're easy to rebuild.  
I presume that the hoods would keep most of your sweat from getting into the mechanism on the brifters, but the Shimano brifters aren't easily rebuildable.



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Anton Tutter

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Dec 10, 2015, 11:38:45 AM12/10/15
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I've converted to brifters, and I won't look back.

I've had Shimano STI, Campy Ergo and SRAM DoubleTap. Currently have Campy and SRAM in my stable, and I prefer the SRAM DoubleTap ever so slightly over Campy Ergo. I didn't like Shimano STI as much... Both the Campy and SRAM hoods are very comfortable, but the SRAM shifting mechanism has the best feel, IMO.

Anton


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 11:05:33 AM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

islaysteve

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Dec 10, 2015, 12:04:08 PM12/10/15
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Another brifter fan here (although I dislike the term). When I returned to riding in 1994 after a long hiatus, STI made such a positive difference in my comfort and confidence on the bike. I see no reason to give that up as long as I'm using drop bars. My experience is solely with Shimano (105 8 spd) and I don't find them (index shifting) to be finicky. I'm running the
same old 8 speed shifters and derailleurs from 1994, with Sugino crank and a cassette that is supposed to be out of range for that RD. Still works fine. For full disclosure, these shifters do get sticky after a time and require some level of cleaning. I recently did a deep cleaning that involves partial disassembly. Not for the faint of heart, but helped greatly by some YouTube videos ( links upon request). This would not be an issue of course if you're buying new, or recent, parts.
Cheers, Steve

iamkeith

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Dec 10, 2015, 12:54:53 PM12/10/15
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I have one set, of Ultegra STI 9 speeds on my RB-1.  I do like them, but mostly for variety's sake.  It's kind of fun to have one bike upon which regular and frequent shifting is part of the ride experience. If I had to choose or only had one bike, I still like simple, separate shift levers of one sort of another though.  Ignoring the durability and adjustment issues, something about the inherent side-to-side wobble of the brifter levers is unnerving to me.  My favorite system for drop bars are the Kelly take-off mounts.  

I'll say this though:   The comfort/ergonomics of most brifters, including the one you linked, is vastly superior to any lever-only design out there, that I've found. The hoods themselves are large enough that they're actually a joy to rest your hands on (indeed this seems to be the primary hand position for most modern road bikes), and the levers are way easier to reach from the drop position even when the brake body is mounted high enough to be utilized as a true hand perch.  (Hopefully that makes sense - I'm a mountain biker who happens to own a couple of road bikes, but the terminology is foreign to me.  Basically, on a bar like the noodle, I seem to have to choose between being able to comfortably and readily reach the levers from the drop position without a strained contortion of my hands and body, or being able to comfortably rest on the hoods when I want to ride in that position.  The brake levers are also easier and more effective to operate from the hoods themselves, but the TRP ones that Riv sells do a better job of this than most.


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

Philip Kim

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Dec 10, 2015, 12:57:09 PM12/10/15
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All the time. Although I'm more tempted by the gevenalles than actual brifters

Ryan Ray

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:19:06 PM12/10/15
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If you want to try it out I have an 10 speed Tiagra group I might be able to ship to Texas for 150 or so.

- Ryan



Scott G.

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:21:36 PM12/10/15
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Sure, I have one Campy Ergo bike, '05 with nice power ratchet front shifting.
Rebuildable, triple friendly.
Variety is good, keeps your mind from following ruts.



William deRosset

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:25:48 PM12/10/15
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Dear Jim,

Tempted? Nah. I just use 'em when appropriate. 

I either use downtube shifters (7s friction and 10s indexed) or Ergo/doubletap levers (10s). On my long-distance bike, I actually use the Campagnolo 10s shaped levers and (10s) downtube shifters, as on longer events, or on extended day trips in very bad weather (that's 40-30degF and sustained snain) I find the manual dexterity required to use integrated shift levers is too high. I can shift indexed downtube levers with my fist.... Also, they're lighter, and I still have the benefit of the improved ergonomics of the huge modern lever bodies.

I tried pretty hard to like bar-ends, and never warmed up to them for general use. I prefer either the 1-handed double shift of a downtube lever, or the ease of a double shift on Ergo levers (SRAM levers aren't too much harder; STI I just don't love).

As a sweater, I understand your challenges, though I've never gummed up a shifter with sweat. Traditional quill stems, on the other hand, did not fare so well. I had to pull them regularly and grease the quill and expander or it would all corrode in place, leading to ugly mutterings and extended removal procedures.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

RJM

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:38:11 PM12/10/15
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I use Ultegra 6800 11 speed group on my Roadeo and I cannot fault that groupset at all....not at all.

On a touring bike, one where I actually am going to use it on tours more than a day or two bike camping, I would go with a bar end or even downtube just for simplicity and ability to repair on the roadside. I'm planning on downtubes for the used Atlantis I bought recently. But, modern brifters work excellently. My mountain bike has an XT group and it also works great.

And I honestly never said that before using 6800. I thought all the stuff I used previously was sub-par.





cyclot...@gmail.com

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:38:31 PM12/10/15
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I like them a lot. I didn't go out of my way to get some, but they came on a used bike I bought. And, they're great! Especially for spirited off-road riding, when you're in the drops and don't want to let go of your grip to move your hand. Amazing in that application!

But they do wear out significantly faster than bar-ends, and I can see how they're prone to ride-ending damage in a crash. I almost treat them like a replaceable wear item like a chain or even tires. They last longer than those of course, but nowhere near what bar ends (decade) or friction (lifetime) shifters do.

Very intrigued by the Simergo 11 to 9 set set up, and will probably do that when my current Ultegras wear out (they're starting to shift poorly right now).


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 8:05:33 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

Randall Rupp

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Dec 10, 2015, 1:50:55 PM12/10/15
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I've got a bike with Shimano Ultegra 6800 11-speed shifters and they are really nice.  Light touch and shifts great.  Haven't had them more than 18 months so I can't comment on durability.  I have had some Campy Veloce 10-speed shifters in a shimergo setup for more the 4 years and they have a more mechanical feel to them which I like.  I haven't had any problems with them.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:38 PM, cyclot...@gmail.com <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:
I like them a lot. I didn't go out of my way to get some, but they came on a used bike I bought. And, they're great! Especially for spirited off-road riding, when you're in the drops and don't want to let go of your grip to move your hand. Amazing in that application!

But they do wear out significantly faster than bar-ends, and I can see how they're prone to ride-ending damage in a crash. I almost treat them like a replaceable wear item like a chain or even tires. They last longer than those of course, but nowhere near what bar ends (decade) or friction (lifetime) shifters do.

Very intrigued by the Simergo 11 to 9 set set up, and will probably do that when my current Ultegras wear out (they're starting to shift poorly right now).


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 8:05:33 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

And I find myself feeling conflicted.  This is only a little more than
what Riv sells bar-ends for...

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Patrick Moore

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Dec 10, 2015, 2:28:38 PM12/10/15
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On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:54 AM, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have one set, of Ultegra STI 9 speeds on my RB-1.  I do like them, but mostly for variety's sake.  It's kind of fun to have one bike upon which regular and frequent shifting is part of the ride experience. If I had to choose or only had one bike, I still like simple, separate shift levers of one sort of another though.  Ignoring the durability and adjustment issues, something about the inherent side-to-side wobble of the brifter levers is unnerving to me.  My favorite system for drop bars are the Kelly take-off mounts.  

I've only tried brifters "around the block" and found the shift action rather awkward and annoying -- I had to push the lever inward so far it felt awkward. I do love Silver BES and use them on my off road bike -- 9 speed; they are precise enough and the lever is long enough that I get pretty good control; interesting: the Microshift derailleur that got into the spokes and exploded was more precise than the replacement Dura Ace 7410; but the last shifts fine anyway -- just a lot more movement of the derailleur for a given movement of the BES.

But!! With the new Race Lite and its 9 speed trigger shifters --- man, how easy it is to shift!! I generally don't shift much, either on- or off road, but I find myself tempted to shift a lot more with these triggers -- partly of course because the gaps between gears are so big and I'm always searching for the right one. New cog and ring arrangements in planning.

One shifting system I liked a great deal on road was the old Kelly Take-Offs, that put dt shifters just inboard of the brake hoods. I found these particularly nice for half stepping, and I could shift from hoods as well as hooks. I wonder how they'd do off road ....
 

I'll say this though:   The comfort/ergonomics of most brifters, including the one you linked, is vastly superior to any lever-only design out there, that I've found. The hoods themselves are large enough that they're actually a joy to rest your hands on (indeed this seems to be the primary hand position for most modern road bikes), and the levers are way easier to reach from the drop position even when the brake body is mounted high enough to be utilized as a true hand perch.  


I know that it's each to his-er-her own, but I find the "traditional" Shimano aero, pre-brifter hoods very comfortable, and try to install these on all my road bikes. In fact, I like them better than the Tektro or Cane Creek V-brake drop bar levers on the dirt road bike (formerly known as Fargo, shortly, God willing, to be known as Matthews Custom Cycles) which I find, frankly, too long. There seems to be a natural transition between the long, flat ramp of the Maes Parallel and the Shimano aero hood, with a very definite stop in just the right place.

I suppose all of this is simply to say that brake hood shapes and shifter positions are almost as personal a taste as saddles and gearing.
 

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Steve Palincsar

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Dec 10, 2015, 2:49:52 PM12/10/15
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On 12/10/2015 11:04 AM, Jim Bronson wrote:
> I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
> so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
> them up fairly regularly.

Would you be even more likely to gum up brifters with sweat? I mean,
your hands are right on the levers all the time with brifters, whereas
with bar end shifters you grab hold of the lever only when you're shifting.


Tim Gavin

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Dec 10, 2015, 3:07:15 PM12/10/15
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On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:54 AM, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:


I'll say this though:   The comfort/ergonomics of most brifters, including the one you linked, is vastly superior to any lever-only design out there, that I've found. The hoods themselves are large enough that they're actually a joy to rest your hands on (indeed this seems to be the primary hand position for most modern road bikes), and the levers are way easier to reach from the drop position even when the brake body is mounted high enough to be utilized as a true hand perch.  (Hopefully that makes sense - I'm a mountain biker who happens to own a couple of road bikes, but the terminology is foreign to me.  Basically, on a bar like the noodle, I seem to have to choose between being able to comfortably and readily reach the levers from the drop position without a strained contortion of my hands and body, or being able to comfortably rest on the hoods when I want to ride in that position.  The brake levers are also easier and more effective to operate from the hoods themselves, but the TRP ones that Riv sells do a better job of this than most.


I agree that most brake-only levers have dated ergonomics, and don't really give good hand positions on the hoods or ramps.  That's because most brake-only levers haven't been re-designed since the early 90s.  I didn't grow up with non-aero levers, so I don't appreciate a point at the top of the hood.

The TRP RRL levers, in contrast, have modern ergonomics that mirror Campagnolo 10s Ergopowers.  I find that they are very comfortable on the hoods and ramps, as are most modern brifters.  I have no problem reaching the brake lever from any hand position, but then again I have pretty large hands.  A small wedge is included with the TRP RRL levers that may change that lever reach somewhat.


To the overall discussion, I'll add that my control choice is definitely influenced by my gearing configuration.  
With a triple crank, I accept only a Silver bar-end shifter.  Every other shifter I've tried with a triple crank has been disappointing (twist grip shifters, Campy 8s Ergos, Shimano STI brifters, thumb shifters, or trigger shifters).  
The left Silver bar-end seems to pull a lot of cable (compared to Shimano bar-ends), so shifts require only a small movement of the lever.  I can over-shift it a bit if I want to force a shift, and it's super easy to trim.
No other shifter is as satisfactory for me with a triple crank.  Therefore, both of my bikes with triples have bar-ends.  
I haven't tried more modern Campy Ergos with a triple, and their multiple standards (quickshift, ultrashift) keeps me from even trying.

With a double crank, I've found indexed/integrated shifters to work just fine.  And, with a wide-range 10s cassette, I don't really see the need for a triple crank any more.  I don't think I'll spec one on any new builds.  (Sorry for any offense to the retro-grouches out there.  I respect the retro-simple aesthetic and ascribe to most of its tenets, but triples are losing ground in my preferences.)


With all that said, I'll admit that I don't like the wrist twisting motion required for brifters.  I've injured my wrists enough over the years that they're usually a bit tender, and that twisting gets uncomfortable, especially when my arms are tired from riding.  The up/down motion of a bar-end or downtube shifter is much more comfortable for my wrist.

jeffrey kane

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Dec 10, 2015, 3:40:28 PM12/10/15
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Personally, I prefer the term dual-control lever. And while I love them -- loved Shimano 9, loved Campy Record 10 -- I didn't like Shimano 10 and haven't been able to settle on a choice for a new set. I hate telling myself how much I like D/T shifters. I mean, I'm already a grouch but still ... I can't get over how much I like their ease, ergonomics and overall genius of design .. and I love that simultaneous one-handed front and back shifting. Heck, I'm currently running D/T shifters as preference over Shimano 10 dual control levers on my commuter bike these days ... in NYC traffic!

That said, Sram has my eye. I'd like to do a 1x set up with that crazy 10-/42 rear cassette on my commuter ... and one day I swear I'm gonna shave off my cable stops and go for that e-Tap system. Come on man: just 4 parts and no wires, cables or housing ... just bolt 'em on, pair 'em up and go. But first, lets see how the pros do next season all bunched up together mixing up wireless signals and all. I 'm happy to wait a few years for the wide range mtb/touring version anyway.


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 11:05:33 AM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

Bill Lindsay

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Dec 10, 2015, 4:11:27 PM12/10/15
to RBW Owners Bunch
"I'll say this though:   The comfort/ergonomics of most brifters, including the one you linked, is vastly superior to any lever-only design out there, that I've found"

Another notable exception is SRAM.  The S500 brakelevers are brifters with the guts ripped out.  They are still very heavy (~270g) and are still very expensive (~$100), but they have a that contemporary ergonomic shape of a brifter...because it's the same thing.  

Garth

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Dec 10, 2015, 4:28:15 PM12/10/15
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  In high heat and humidity and sweating profusely I either wear some basic cotton sweat-wrist bands and/or carry thin cotton or microfiber cloths with me . I pretty much keep one in hand or both hands while riding . I sometimes start with a wet one and it's quite refreshing to wipe your face and arms while you ride rather than stay soaked .  If I was a "past me" looking an someone riding with wrist bands or cloths in their hands I may have thought it a bit odd ! HaH !  Now I just laugh and dress and do whatever the heck I want to regardless .

    You don't need new levers Jim ! 

Joe Bernard

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Dec 10, 2015, 4:36:42 PM12/10/15
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I agree about the Silver bar-end for triple cranks. My highly eccentric Bike Friday cockpit is a SOMA mustache-like bar (Ergon grips, I don't use the curved portion) with a Shimano Sora brifter for the rear and Silver bar-end for the front. My Itty bitty hands struggle to make front shifts by pushing a lever sideways, I'm much happier with the pull-up/push-down movement for front shifting.

Jim Bronson

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Dec 10, 2015, 5:33:07 PM12/10/15
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My experience is the opposite. I've never worn out 9 speed 105 or
Ultegra brifters, but I go through a set of bar ends every year.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:38 PM, cyclot...@gmail.com
<cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like them a lot. I didn't go out of my way to get some, but they came on a
> used bike I bought. And, they're great! Especially for spirited off-road
> riding, when you're in the drops and don't want to let go of your grip to
> move your hand. Amazing in that application!
>
> But they do wear out significantly faster than bar-ends, and I can see how
> they're prone to ride-ending damage in a crash. I almost treat them like a
> replaceable wear item like a chain or even tires. They last longer than
> those of course, but nowhere near what bar ends (decade) or friction
> (lifetime) shifters do.
>
> Very intrigued by the Simergo 11 to 9 set set up, and will probably do that
> when my current Ultegras wear out (they're starting to shift poorly right
> now).
>
>
> On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 8:05:33 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
>> so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
>> them up fairly regularly.
>>
>> Then something like this comes up.
>>
>> http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?partNumber=YS-ST4600-BASE&catalogId=10052&storeId=10053&langId=-1&utm_source=nashbar&utm_medium=email&utm_content=151210Th&utm_campaign=Products&cm_mmc=Email-_-nashbar-_-151210Th-_-Products&cm_em=jim.b...@gmail.com&spMailingID=12498453&spUserID=NjA1MzcwOTY2NDES1&spJobID=643355659&spReportId=NjQzMzU1NjU5S0
>>
>> And I find myself feeling conflicted. This is only a little more than
>> what Riv sells bar-ends for...
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> signature goes here
>
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Jim Bronson

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Dec 10, 2015, 5:35:08 PM12/10/15
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With the bar ends, it's more a function of sweat dripping off other
parts of my body since they are closer to the rider. It seems to go
from my chin right on to the bar-ends fairly frequently. With
brifters, the mechanism is much farther forwards so they seem to get
less sweat. They do get the sweat off of your hands and arms, but
none of the sweat off of your torso.
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Jim Bronson

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Dec 10, 2015, 5:38:36 PM12/10/15
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When I used brifters more often, I did simultaneous shifts all the
time, especially when transitioning from the big ring to the middle
ring. I'd hit the button on both brifters to go to a smaller ring on
both front and back, and it would be a perfect transition every time.
Well ok one time I dropped my chain, but that was the only time I can
ever remember that happening and I'd done a similar shift hundreds if
not thousands of times.

Now, the remnants of my go-fast bike are in spare parts boxes in my garage.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:40 PM, jeffrey kane <jsk_o...@mac.com> wrote:
> Personally, I prefer the term dual-control lever. And while I love them --
> loved Shimano 9, loved Campy Record 10 -- I didn't like Shimano 10 and
> haven't been able to settle on a choice for a new set. I hate telling myself
> how much I like D/T shifters. I mean, I'm already a grouch but still ... I
> can't get over how much I like their ease, ergonomics and overall genius of
> design .. and I love that simultaneous one-handed front and back shifting.
> Heck, I'm currently running D/T shifters as preference over Shimano 10 dual
> control levers on my commuter bike these days ... in NYC traffic!
>
> That said, Sram has my eye. I'd like to do a 1x set up with that crazy
> 10-/42 rear cassette on my commuter ... and one day I swear I'm gonna shave
> off my cable stops and go for that e-Tap system. Come on man: just 4 parts
> and no wires, cables or housing ... just bolt 'em on, pair 'em up and go.
> But first, lets see how the pros do next season all bunched up together
> mixing up wireless signals and all. I 'm happy to wait a few years for the
> wide range mtb/touring version anyway.
>
> On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 11:05:33 AM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
>> so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
>> them up fairly regularly.
>>
>> Then something like this comes up.
>>
>> http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?partNumber=YS-ST4600-BASE&catalogId=10052&storeId=10053&langId=-1&utm_source=nashbar&utm_medium=email&utm_content=151210Th&utm_campaign=Products&cm_mmc=Email-_-nashbar-_-151210Th-_-Products&cm_em=jim.b...@gmail.com&spMailingID=12498453&spUserID=NjA1MzcwOTY2NDES1&spJobID=643355659&spReportId=NjQzMzU1NjU5S0
>>
>> And I find myself feeling conflicted. This is only a little more than
>> what Riv sells bar-ends for...
>>
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Christopher Murray

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Dec 10, 2015, 5:46:27 PM12/10/15
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I think brifters are great if I am riding on the hoods. With any other position the advantage/ convenience compared to BEs is negligible (and maybe advantage BE). That said, I almost always ride on the hoods on my roadish bike.

Cheers!
Chris

Mark Reimer

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Dec 10, 2015, 6:02:06 PM12/10/15
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I've been riding Shimano Atheena 11 spd shifters on my road bike for about the last 6-7 years. They have been crashed and ridden in some gnarly conditions and still work better than my brand new Ultegra or 105 brifters I've had over the years. They are SILVER and look really nice on steel bikes, and also have easily the most comfortable shape I've ever felt. Keith was right, they are miiiiiles ahead of any dedicated brake lever I've had. Although the Cane Creek and SRAM levers are pretty good. SRAM's are actually identical to their brifters, just with no shifter guts inside. 

Anyway - my point is they're both great. I love my dura ace bar ends, but the Campy brifters are the creme de la creme. They shift so smoothly, nearly never need adjustment, are comfy and look classic. 

Edwin W

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Dec 10, 2015, 6:06:32 PM12/10/15
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I'm a late adopter (like many on this list, I am sure) and have never used brifters, but I like reading about others' experiences. One question: what is the beef with the term "brifter"?

Always getting educated on this list, 1x8, shifting with a bar end and never really tempted by "brifters",

Edwin 
Nashville

Eddie Flayer

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Dec 10, 2015, 7:01:32 PM12/10/15
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tongue in cheek, but to some degree I think the term Luddite is apropos in this conversation. Of course bar ends and downtubes are just fine, but the dual control lever is a work of engineering art all to itself. Maybe we should call them paddle shifters. Me thinks a great invention. To each their own.


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 8:05:33 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.



Jim Bronson

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Dec 10, 2015, 7:48:13 PM12/10/15
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I think the reason i use "brifter" is because I'm too lazy to type out
"dual control lever". Perhaps if we used an acronym? DCL?

"I decided to go with DCL instead of bar-ends"

perhaps?
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Joe Bernard

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Dec 10, 2015, 9:08:28 PM12/10/15
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"Brifter" is a mashup of BRake lever and shIFTER. I'm pretty sure it was invented by Grant, and not intended to be a denigrating label. It's simply a way to call them something without using "STI" or a long phrase like "integrated brake/shift lever."

Mojo

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Dec 10, 2015, 9:11:27 PM12/10/15
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I have used Ultegra 9speed that I didn't like much for their hand shape, or lack thereof. I switched to Campy 11 speed that matches perfectly with Shimano 9 speed derailer and cassette. I like them a lot in spite of my aversion to Campy in general. But when I get on my LHT with downtube friction 8 speed, I wonder why I fuss with brifters. I like riding a fretless bike. So far this season I keep choosing the LHT for road rides for its downtube friction shifters (and fenders, and load carrying capacity).

Joe Ramey in GJT

On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
I find myself re-thinking my allegiance to bar-ends, because I sweat
so much between May and September riding here in Texas, that I gum
them up fairly regularly.

Then something like this comes up.

And I find myself feeling conflicted.  This is only a little more than
what Riv sells bar-ends for...

Benedikt

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Dec 14, 2015, 4:44:17 AM12/14/15
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It's more a point of aesthetics and nostalgia for me. When I started seriously riding again in 2006 I bought a bike that came with brifters. Loved 'em. When I built up my Hillborne in 2010 I installed bar end shifters, mostly because my aunt had a 10 speed when I was a kid that had bar end shifters and I've always wanted them since. I actually hated them for about the first 500 miles or so. Now I love them and sometimes think about how hard it was for me to get used to them. Since then I've added the Tektro TRP brake levers with all the little pretty holes drilled in them. I could never get rid of those and they are not brifters so I'm keeping the bar ends. 

All that said I'm building up a second bike. Also steel but a "go fast"? It has a lot of modern aspects and I just felt brifters were the way to go. Not quite finished yet but on the rack I love them and how they shift. Having used both I don't for see any problem switching between the two and I'm sure I will thoroughly enjoy both.

Brewster Fong

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Dec 14, 2015, 12:43:58 PM12/14/15
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On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 6:08:28 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
"Brifter" is a mashup of BRake lever and shIFTER. I'm pretty sure it was invented by Grant, and not intended to be a denigrating label. It's simply a way to call them something without using "STI" or a long phrase like "integrated brake/shift lever."
 
 Sheldon Brown's glossary names the person who coined the term:
 
A combination brake/shift lever, such as a Campagnolo Ergo or Shimano S.T.I. unit. This term was coined by Bruce Frech.

hsmitham

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Dec 19, 2015, 3:17:09 PM12/19/15
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Late to the party as is my penchant.

Back in 2012 I drank the Kool-aid and sold my carbon race bike. I went with a Hilsen outfitted with noodle drop bars and the fancy TRP drilled brake levers. At around the same time I acquired a 1984 Trek 660 from list member Chris down Sanger, Texas way. It hung in my rafters for two years. I think I had the notion to have a go faster bike, but I'm old and my memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway, I'm glad that past me bought the frame set. In the preceding  years I've built up an Atlantis outfitted with BE's and Albatross bars. Then early this year a 10 speed  Campy Veloce group complete with wheel set fell into my lap and the Trek was reborn with modern DCL, brifters (whatever the hell you want to call them!) and I fell in love with the ergo nature of this config. The more I rode the more I thought how great these would be in off road scenarios. So the Hilsen is being reimagined.  

Some take-aways, the TRP brake levers are nice just not as nice as the campy levers, which feel so damn natural. Bar ends are no nonsense and work just fine and on a world tour most likely what I'd roll with. But that's not happening anytime soon. So if I have a mechanical I figure I can work something out and limp to a bike store. I still love drop bars and combined with brifters with all the controls at my fingertips it's a winner for me. Still looking for the best dirt drop handlebar to mate up with my new Hilsen config. I like Shimano but I think campy nailed it, and it's too early to say anything about the Sram setup but so far so good. 

My experience with bike's is if your wallet allows it try it! 

I like this from Scott C. 

"Variety is good, keeps your mind from following ruts".

Tail Winds,

~Hugh
 

Richard

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Dec 19, 2015, 7:54:48 PM12/19/15
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I changed from DT shifters to Campy ergos on a couple of my bikes. I like them a lot. For fast clubs rides, brifters are best, as the shifts are quicker, requiring little hand movement. I do like the simplicity and elegance of DT shifters. I have bar-ends on my Hilsen which I also like. I ride it on the many dirt and gravel roads where I live. Different shifters for different purposes I guess.

Ron Mc

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Dec 21, 2015, 8:05:39 AM12/21/15
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I've never even considered clipless pedals.  Still on the first year of my first ever index-shift bike (9-speed thumbies).  I chased my friends on their tandem for 30 miles yesterday (it was a good workout, and I left them behind for the last 4 miles).  Watching him bar-end (index) shift on the end of his woodchippers, I saw what a chore bar end shifting could be, and really made me appreciate my thumbies.  Part of the reason I was able to keep up with a tandem (those two turn Fast together) was the quick mindless shifting of my setup.  So  while I'm still not tempted, I can see the advantage to brifters.  

Ron Mc

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Dec 21, 2015, 8:08:42 AM12/21/15
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I do have a question about brifters.  On both my thumbies, and bar-end friction shifters on my moustache-cockpit bike, I get a quick visual index to what gear I'm in from the shifter position.  Do brifters offer any feedback like that? i.e., is there a way to tell what gear you're in by looking at your brifters?  

Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 9:04:30 AM12/21/15
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No, that's why some versions include little gauges to show you what gear
you're in.


Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 9:05:14 AM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 08:05 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
> I've never even considered clipless pedals. Still on the first year
> of my first ever index-shift bike (9-speed thumbies). I chased my
> friends on their tandem for 30 miles yesterday (it was a good workout,
> and I left them behind for the last 4 miles). Watching him bar-end
> (index) shift on the end of his woodchippers, I saw what a chore bar
> end shifting could be,

What kind of chore was that?

Ron Mc

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Dec 21, 2015, 9:54:43 AM12/21/15
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Kind of a cryptic question, but.  Our 30 miles was from their house, neighborhood rolling hills, onto a major thoroughfare to access a paved greenway path for the bulk of the ride. The greenway is twisty and up and down bluffs following a creek (flood zone) - part of it was also along a bike expressway, exposed to a stiff south wind.  Tandems are inertia machines with twice the power and half the drag for similar rolling resistance.  My bike is a very good climbing machine, but keeping up with the tandem on descents required using each one of my gears to chase when they were coasting by maintaining a good spin. I did the same thing on climbs, which was also my catch-up, where he would typically make one shift to their low spin/mash gear.  I made a dozen shifts for each of theirs.  My shifts were rolling knuckle or pulling thumb.  His shifts were at least partly spared by the fact that it's a laborious reach from the hoods to the bottom outside of the woodchipper bars.  

Brian Campbell

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Dec 21, 2015, 9:55:22 AM12/21/15
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I have used Shimano Ultegra and Tiagra level brifters, as well as, Campy 8 Speed Ergo power. All worked fine. I have currently switched my bikes back to indexed downtube shifters. (10 speed Dura Ace on my Hilsen and 7 Speed Shimano, on my Woodrup). Having learned to ride on downtube shifters, I don't find them that off-putting. Recently, I have been doing core strengthening exercises, about 7 months now, and find this makes using down tube shifters easier. On longer rides I am fining I like the additional movement that is a part of down tube shifter use. Bending forward, sitting up a bit, all help keep me from getting fixed in one position.

I did a 200k with the downtube shifting with no ill effects. On a subsequent ride, one rider broke a drive side shifter cable using Shimano brifter. Eventhough he had a replacement, getting the broken cable out of the shifter proved difficult. There is an added layer of complexity to brifters.

Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 10:21:05 AM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 09:54 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
> Kind of a cryptic question, but. Our 30 miles was from their house,
> neighborhood rolling hills, onto a major thoroughfare to access a
> paved greenway path for the bulk of the ride. The greenway is twisty
> and up and down bluffs following a creek (flood zone) - part of it was
> also along a bike expressway, exposed to a stiff south wind. Tandems
> are inertia machines with twice the power and half the drag for
> similar rolling resistance. My bike is a very good climbing machine,
> but keeping up with the tandem on descents required using each one of
> my gears to chase when they were coasting by maintaining a good spin.
> I did the same thing on climbs, which was also my catch-up, where he
> would typically make one shift to their low spin/mash gear. I made a
> dozen shifts for each of theirs. My shifts were rolling knuckle or
> pulling thumb. His shifts were at least partly spared by the fact
> that it's a laborious reach from the hoods to the bottom outside of
> the woodchipper bars.
>

I've never used Woodchipper handlebars, but I have used drop bars with
bar end shifters for many years, including on tandems (having owned a
tandem since 1975). I really don't understand "laborious reach" in this
context, unless the bars really don't fit the captain and have far too
much drop. If that's true, then the bar end position is basically
unusable for him -- and if so, then what's the point of those bars?

Come to it, I have difficulty understanding the captain's shifting
strategy based on your description. Riding tandem in rolling country I
shift a lot: often all the way to top gear on the way down, then through
the bottom and up the other side dropping gear after gear to keep the
pedal effort the same and paying out momentum to keep the roll going.
Go over the top and start down and it's upshift, upshift and upshift,
building momentum. I'd coast when I had spun out my 54x12.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of what you're describing, and
probably pretty close to your shifting strategy. It definitely means a
lot of shifting, and it does as you say depend on quickly and
effortlessly reaching the shifters. For me, with bar ends it would be
dead simple, since on those downhill stretches I'd usually be on the bar
ends anyway, where I could shift with the heel of my hand or with my
pinkie and ring finger. But even if I'm not riding on the bar ends, on
the hoods instead, it's still not much of a reach to the shifters,
certainly nothing like the reach to downtube levers, and doesn't involve
bending the body -- again, unless there's something really off about how
the bars are sized (excessively deep drop, for example).




Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 10:25:11 AM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 09:55 AM, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> I did a 200k with the downtube shifting with no ill effects. On a
> subsequent ride, one rider broke a drive side shifter cable using
> Shimano brifter. Eventhough he had a replacement, getting the broken
> cable out of the shifter proved difficult. There is an added layer of
> complexity to brifters.

Right hand Shimano STI levers - especially those with the cable exiting
sideways - are known for eating shifter cables. There's something about
the cable routing inside the shifter unit that tends to fatigue and fray
the cable, and it happens inside the mechanism where you can't see or
feel it (bar ends fray cables too, only much more slowly, and when the
cable frays the loose ends stick you in the finger and alert you to the
problem before it gets anywhere near the point of failure). Your first
alert usually is poor shifting, and sometimes you only have one or two
shifts left before the cable lets go entirely. And then, good luck
getting the pieces out. By contrast, downtube levers don't seem to
fray the cable at all.




William deRosset

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Dec 21, 2015, 10:57:43 AM12/21/15
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>Right hand Shimano STI levers - especially those with the cable exiting  
>sideways - are known for eating shifter cables.  Dear Steve,

The current generation (6800;9000;5800) 11-speed shimano shifters reportedly eat cables faster than the 8/9s stuff ever did. The cables are now consumables--replace cable inners with every other chain to be on the safe side? The sad thing is that the minimum bend radius to prevent fraying is known (or easily calculated anyway if the cable is specified), and Shimano has consistently failed to make that effort. The Campagnolo shifter drum is probably pretty close to that radius. Their 8/9/10s Ergo levers and index-only downtube shifters didn't/don't eat cables at all. Honestly, neither do Shimano's DT levers, but the Simplex and Suntour drums were smaller sometimes did. I can't speak to bar-ends, as I've never really warmed up to them. I reluctantly use them on cyclocross bikes (not high-mileage machines, and the bike in a race only needs two gears--42X25 and something in the middle of the freewheel given my skills. I end up running a lot), tried really hard to like them back when I first adopted half-step gearing. John Forrester said they were the right thing to use with that gear system, and I just can't agree. Downtube shifters win there). If I must keep my hands on the bars (some tandems, mtb, and cx), I prefer thumbshifters or Ergo levers.

Best,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 11:09:46 AM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 10:57 AM, William deRosset wrote:
> >Right hand Shimano STI levers - especially those with the cable exiting
> >sideways - are known for eating shifter cables. Dear Steve,
>
> The current generation (6800;9000;5800) 11-speed shimano shifters
> reportedly eat cables faster than the 8/9s stuff ever did. The cables
> are now consumables--replace cable inners with every other chain to be
> on the safe side? The sad thing is that the minimum bend radius to
> prevent fraying is known (or easily calculated anyway if the cable is
> specified), and Shimano has consistently failed to make that effort.
> The Campagnolo shifter drum is probably pretty close to that radius.
> Their 8/9/10s Ergo levers and index-only downtube shifters
> didn't/don't eat cables at all. Honestly, neither do Shimano's DT
> levers, but the Simplex and Suntour drums were smaller sometimes did.
> I can't speak to bar-ends, as I've never really warmed up to them. I
> reluctantly use them on cyclocross bikes (not high-mileage machines,
> and the bike in a race only needs two gears--42X25 and something in
> the middle of the freewheel given my skills. I end up running a lot),
> tried really hard to like them back when I first adopted half-step
> gearing. John Forrester said they were the right thing to use with
> that gear system, and I just can't agree. Downtube shifters win
> there). If I must keep my hands on the bars (some tandems, mtb, and
> cx), I prefer thumbshifters or Ergo levers.
>

In my experience, Shimano indexed bar ends fray a cable about every
5,000 miles. Sun Tour Sprint levers adapted to bar end use will fray a
right hand cable about every 10,000 miles.

I have heard that Ergo does not eat cables. No word at all on SRAM --
either that means not many are using it (which I doubt) or it means
cable fraying isn't an issue with SRAM Double Tap either.

How much you like downtube levers depends a lot in my experience on
where your hand is when you drop it. For Jan, when he drops his hand it
is on the downtube shift lever. I assume for you it's the same. For
me, it's way high up, and requires a body bend and reach almost on a par
with reaching for a water bottle.

Mark Reimer

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Dec 21, 2015, 11:12:06 AM12/21/15
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I have Campy Athena ergo levers on my Gios Torino Super Record, same cables for about five years. My riding season is shorter here so consider that, but the ergo levers were really a 'set it and forget it' system. I didn't even have in-line cable adjusters. They never went out of alignment ONCE, and this is 11-speed! The campy system is just so good. Plus the brifters are 100% rebuildable!



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Jeremy Till

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Dec 21, 2015, 1:11:09 PM12/21/15
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The thing about the last two generations of Shimano STI stuff, with the shift cables routed along the bar under the tape, is that they are extremely sensitive to cable friction, so much so that the 11 speed stuff is specified with special polymer-coated shift cables and according to Shimano, it will not work properly without them.  My impression of SRAM stuff is the same.  So if you're racking up the miles on most brifters these days, you're going to feel your shift performance degrade from cable friction, and I would guess most people end up replacing their cables and housing for this reason long before they've stressed the cable head to the point of fraying. As a mechanic I haven't seen frayed cables stuck inside of recent Shimano, SRAM, or Campy brifters, only on the older external-cable Shimano units, but maybe that's because they route the cable so cleanly that they keep on working and working and working until you snap your cable?

velomann

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Dec 21, 2015, 2:00:57 PM12/21/15
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I have bikes set up with downtube shifters, bar ends, thumb shifters, trigger shifters, one bike with twist-grips, and my cross bike has always run Shimano 10-speed brifters (currently Ultegra). Each has strengths and weaknesses, but for bikes I use mostly  on the road, I am most partial to Dura-Ace 9-speed downtube shifters. They are beautiful, crisp, and bombproof, but getting harder to find. 

I have a couple sets of used Ultegra 9-speed brifters that I'm holding on to because when I sell a road bike on Craigslist that seems to be what buyers prefer. The only time I really prefer brifters is for Cyclocross racing where quick shifts and keeping both hands on the bars is more important. What I really dislike about brifters, besides their inelegant appearance (IMHO they are fat and look better on bikes with fat tubes ie carbon/aluminum) is the cost and near impossibility of repair. In my experience, downtubes and thumb shifters rarely break, but brifters do, and when they do you're out hundreds of dollars getting them replaced.

Jim Bronson

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Dec 21, 2015, 2:11:10 PM12/21/15
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I always just looked down at my cassette to see where I was, when I
ran brifters.

Actually, I do that with bar ends also, just a quick glance.
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Jim Bronson

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Dec 21, 2015, 2:14:41 PM12/21/15
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A good rando always carries a spare shifter cable! I do!

Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 3:06:56 PM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 02:14 PM, Jim Bronson wrote:
> A good rando always carries a spare shifter cable! I do!

Thing is, if you get unlucky the cable breaks and leaves little shards
stuck inside the gears in the shifter mechanism. Getting them means a
near disassembly, and several hours of work by a skilled mechanic which
may end up unsuccessful. My first encounter with the STI shifter cable
problem was a few years ago at Bike Virginia in the mountains of SW
Virginia, when a friend from my bike club showed up at the first rest
stop with a broken cable. They had an onsite mechanic, but only at the
rest stop about 40 miles and 5,000' of elevation change down the road.
When she got there, they looked at it and told her they had too much of
a backlog (mainly people whose front derailleurs wouldn't shift on the
hills) and told her to come to their tent at the end of the ride; when
she did they told her she'd have to buy a new set brifters.


islaysteve

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:18:28 PM12/21/15
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There's no arguing that Shimano STI brifters are difficult to repair, whether to remove broken cable or to deep clean in order to get them shifting properly again. I did it about 15 years ago, successfully, and I did my right one recently with the help of some excellent YouTube instructions. It's still hard. I'd like to try Campy, will have to look into the economics and practicalities of that for the future! Cheers, Steve

Mark Reimer

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:20:53 PM12/21/15
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On the oregon outback I ran into a guy on an Elephant NFE who was running 11-speed Campy athena brifters (aka the nice silver brifters) with a Shimano 11-36 TEN speed cassette and XT derailleur. By attached the cable at a slightly differently location on the bolt, he was able to get perfectly indexed 10-speed performance with a wide-range shimano cassette, while using the more comfortable, reliable and rebuildable campy brifters. I was impressed. 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 4:18 PM, islaysteve <alki...@verizon.net> wrote:
There's no arguing that Shimano STI brifters are difficult to repair, whether to remove broken cable or to deep clean in order to get them shifting properly again.  I did it about 15 years ago, successfully, and I did my right one recently with the help of some excellent YouTube instructions.  It's still hard.  I'd like to try Campy, will have to look into the economics and practicalities of that for the future!  Cheers, Steve

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Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:23:54 PM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 05:20 PM, Mark Reimer wrote:
> On the oregon outback I ran into a guy on an Elephant NFE who was
> running 11-speed Campy athena brifters (aka the nice silver brifters)
> with a Shimano 11-36 TEN speed cassette and XT derailleur. By attached
> the cable at a slightly differently location on the bolt, he was able
> to get perfectly indexed 10-speed performance with a wide-range
> shimano cassette, while using the more comfortable, reliable and
> rebuildable campy brifters. I was impressed.

Yes, it's said Campag 11 indexes Shimano 9 perfectly, but I'd not heard
that it would to Shimano 10 with an "alternate" cable mounting location.

Hugh Smitham

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:27:30 PM12/21/15
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Curious anybody know the pull ratios for Shimano 9, 10 & 11 and Campy 10 & 11?

Mark Reimer

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:32:18 PM12/21/15
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Hugh Smitham

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:34:15 PM12/21/15
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Sweet!  And a big thank you!!

Jim Bronson

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:53:52 PM12/21/15
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I like the ergonomics of the way the Campy hoods attach to the bars,
but I don't like the thumb operated Campy downshift mechanism. I
prefer the Shimano style, but that method is probably patented.
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Steve Palincsar

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:55:34 PM12/21/15
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On 12/21/2015 05:53 PM, Jim Bronson wrote:
> I like the ergonomics of the way the Campy hoods attach to the bars,
> but I don't like the thumb operated Campy downshift mechanism. I
> prefer the Shimano style, but that method is probably patented.

How do you feel about SRAM's Double Tap approach?


Mark Reimer

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Dec 21, 2015, 5:58:59 PM12/21/15
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I love that thumb tab because you can also click it with your pinkie finger when your hands are on the 'tops'.

Jim Bronson

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Dec 21, 2015, 6:06:01 PM12/21/15
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I've never ridden SRAM brifters. Not requiring the usage of the thumb
would be preferred for me, but I've only tried it on a stand at the
Hotter N Hell 100 expo. Seems logical, but I guess I'd have to see
how well I got used to it in practice. It seems like downshifting
would be similar to mashing the Shimano brake lever to the left,
except it's only the button you're mashing to the left harder than
when you upshift.

My younger sister has one bike with Shimano brifters and one bike with
SRAM brifters. Unfortunately with her job and travel requirements she
rides on her trainer more often than on the road. And she is hardcore
about it, she doesn't think anything of riding in the trainer for 4
hours. When she first got the SRAM bike, a crabon fibre Cervelo, I
asked her if she found it quite a bit different than Shimano and she
said no it didn't seem different at all, but she had at that time not
ridden the bike on an actual road. When she finally got it out on the
road she was like whoa this is way different, but the last time I rode
with her a few months back she seemed pretty well adapted to it.

Tim Gavin

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Dec 21, 2015, 6:09:10 PM12/21/15
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I didn't mind the thumb tab on my 8 speed Campy Ergos (but I don't like them for triple cranks, so they came back off my Riv).  

I prefer Campy's lever-and-thumb system to Shimano's moving brake lever.  Ugh.

Now that I'm getting used to the SRAM Rival 10s Double-tap shifters on my Foundry Auger, I can say that I like the feel/actuation of the SRAM system better than Shimano but less than Campagnolo.  
SRAM's double tap system is pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it.  The two different actuations (short and full) are pretty easy to tell apart by feel.  Upshifting the front derailer (full sweep left brifter, small to large chainring) is a bit awkward, but downshifting the rear derailer (full sweep right brifter, small to large cog) is easy.
The SRAM brifters use a single shift lever (like Campagnolo) but without the thumb button.  Like Campy, SRAM's brake levers don't pivot sideways to shift.

However, I give SRAM higher brifter points because its road and MTB shifters and rear derailleurs are all cross-compatible (for the same speed category).  Therefore, SRAM makes it easy to fit a wide range cassette with drop bar controls.  
That capability is limited to mid-cage road RDs (that fit a 32t cog) for Shimano, and Campy doesn't make any RD that will take a wide range cassette (which is why a "Shimergo" combination is so popular).


Hugh Smitham

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Dec 21, 2015, 6:24:48 PM12/21/15
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Or in mittens when it's freezing.

Richard

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Dec 22, 2015, 7:11:13 AM12/22/15
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For Winter riding with gloves or mittens, brifters can be difficult to use. In my case Campy ergos, or Shimano brifters. Never used SRAM stuff.

David Banzer

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Dec 23, 2015, 8:50:55 AM12/23/15
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Thanks for this. I'm rebuilding my Redwood as a 700c road bike (think 38mm Barlow Pass tires will fit) and already have a Shimano 8-speed cassette and derailleur. I'd just need to add Campy 10-speed shifters and it'd work. I've been looking at options and it looks like Campy redesigned the brake lever shape somewhat recently, is that correct?
I'm trying to decide if I should buy new, or find a used pair (I think version 2 of the hood shape).
David
Chicago

Jim Bronson

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Dec 23, 2015, 9:17:19 PM12/23/15
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Barlow Pass tires are currently installed on my Redwood and it's a
nice ride with them. No room for fenders, though.
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