Ram as 650 tourer, a follow up report.

[alan lavine]

Hola,

Just completed a 1 hr test ride of the Ram with VO 650 wheels and Compass 42's.  OH-MY-O-MY  what a difference!! I am not one prone to hyperbole , but the difference is striking. The wheels are so much lighter they accelerate easily and the road feel is super comfy without being squishy.  I've been a recreational rider for over 35 yrs, but have not felt anything like this before.  This is a bike for my old age....wait, whoops...already there.

RE the brakes:  The slots on the Riv silver side pulls only required minimal filing, I guess mine is not one with the high rear brake bridge.  Also, I changed the pads from rectangular block pads to the Koolstop Thinlines, my favorite pads anyway.  The braking surface is longer and not quite as tall, so you gain maybe .5 mm.  Still, I will be watching carefully as the pads wear.

My old wheels (Phil hubs 36 laced to Bontrager Fairlane asym rims, with Compass 32's)  weigh a ton in comparison.  Are these known to be heavy wheels?

Can't speak to pedal strike yet, I don't pedal in the turns, or at least I won't now.

I strongly recommend this conversion if comfort is your main goal...also, my fenders are on order.  Thanks to all for the advice.

Alan

MAIN DOWNSIDE: I may have to do this to my other road bike.

[Jim Bronson]

Yes, that downside is quite salient, I find myself wanting to put fat Compass tires on all my bikes ;)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Michael Hechmer]

I am not a bit surprised.  I converted a Trek 620, which is standard guageReynolds 531 frame with nearly identical geometry to my Ram.  I got the same outcome with 38 mm pari moto tires.

Michael

[Leslie]

Whew.    ;)

Yeah, I don't want to 'oversell' the idea, because, well, some people may not care enough for the change, but, yeah, I'm really glad I did it to mine.   Keep an eye on your pads, and coast through turns, and you'll continue to love it.....

-L

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:55:13 PM UTC-4, alan lavine wrote:

[mho]

Does the top tube height change much when you go from 700c 28 (or 33 Jack Brown) to 650b 42?

[Leslie]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:26:47 PM UTC-4, mho wrote:

Does the top tube height change much when you go from 700c 28 (or 33 Jack Brown) to 650b 42?

Corrected version!

I'll confess, I did not physically measure my actual top-tube-height prior to converting (and, I haven't after-the-fact either, actually).   But yes, the top-tube will drop a little bit.

The Ram was targeted to fit the RolyPoly, which is pretty much a 700c-27 in actuality. (I ran the RuffyTuffy version instead.) 
The Hetres (although usually called a 42, is probably more like a 650b-41), should be really close to the same size.  In 700c, I ended up later running 32's, so there was a little more drop w/ it, gave me acceptable fender clearance.   But if you're running a smaller 700c tire, like the 700c-27, it might be, what, 1mm or so?  (I did the math back at the time ahead of actually converting, to see what it might look like... but don't recall the exact figure off the top of my head).     A bigger 700c-28, or a 700c-32, is going to be a little bit more noticeable, in having the top-tube drop a little bit when straddling. It would be even more pronounced if you went on down to a 650b-38...  at that point, you will start to have a lot more issues w/ crank-length, and would be losing some of the fatter-tire advantage of going to a 650b in the first place.   

(Realize, this is coming from the guy running 700c-40's on his canti-Rom...  I can ride them at 50psi or less, but if I pump up the rear tire above 60psi, I can start to hear the center-tread brushing the screw that I used to plug the hole underneath the rear bridge (I left the screw just a tiny bit proud from the bridge itself instead of fully flush, just to be an 'indicator' that I need to back the psi off).)

[Toshi Takeuchi]

--So here's additional info.  When my Ram wheelset was Synergy + Hetre, I was fine with Silver sidepulls, normal pads up front and Koolstop Thinlines in the rear.

I switched to A32 rims and had to switch my front to the Thinlines and on the rear, I switched to DiaCompe centerpulls.  I suppose I could have done some filing but didn't.

Well worth the conversion.

Toshi

--

[mho]

Thanks for that info!

[Patrick Moore]

Excellent. How does the handling feel compared to the older wheels? I mean turn in and straight line stability.

FWIW, my erstwhile 58 cm Ram handled 35s with plenty of room for fenders, but I shod it with Parigi Roubaix, about 30 mm wide. Open Pro rims/Ultegra-cum-SP hubs. It rolled very well, but accelerated sluggishly compared to my 26"wheel road bikes. Very stable, but turn in was a bit slow to my taste.

I wonder if yours is a bit quicker with the smaller wheels?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. Aristotle

The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. Dante  

[Alan Lavine]

Can’t say just yet, need to do a more extensive ride. From the short ride yesterday, it just feels more responsive in every way, and like I’ve just lost 10 lbs from around my middle  (if only..)

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/3Qs1Z8TlzHY/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

Heck, perhaps I should have kept my Ram and converted it to 650B.

I'll be interested to hear further impressions.

[Kieran J]

I'll go ahead and be the only voice of dissent. I converted a Ram from 700x33 to 650bx42 recently, and the handling and general swiftness of the bike suffered in my opinion. The bike was no longer effortless to accelerate and just didn't glide nearly as well anymore. I noticed this on hill approaches particularly, as the bike lost momentum quicker and it took more effort to spin up. 

My 650b experiments are ongoing and hardly clinical in nature, but the exercise definitely contributed to solidifying my preference for the 700x32-38mm range. Naturally, this means relatively higher PSI and lower "cush factor" but speed and agility is possibly more important to me than a lusciously compliant ride. I think a lot of people value the cush and may be prepared to accept a certain degree of compromise to achieve that. Others have reported little to no loss in performance after the switch. 

It's worth pointing out that I am 6'4" with bikes that can accommodate fat 700c tires well in proportion. I can certainly imagine riders of average or small size bikes seeing the advantage in converting a 700x28 bike when relative wheel proportions could present problems.

KJ

[David Banzer]

I'll agree somewhat with Kieran here, in my experience with a Riv Redwood. The bike felt best with 700x35mm tires, but I'm thrilled that I've been able to transform it into an all-road machine, and will trade handling (only slightly noticeable) for the ability to run 48mm tires and fenders.
Long story:
I converted my Redwood and very briefly used Hetres (actual 40-41mm) and was glad I had room for fenders, but the handling did suffer. I took it a step further though, installing Vee Rubber Speedsters (actual 47mm) and the handling was improved as the wheel/tire diameter was closer to the original 700c wheel/tire diameter it was designed for. I'm crossing my fingers that the standard casing Compass 650b x 48mm tires will be an actual 48mm width as I should be able to fit those with fenders.
David
Chicago

[Jim Bronson]

Just curious if this is a true apples to apples comparison.  My custom feels maybe a slight bit more plodding, but, my 650b wheels are much heavier than the 700c wheels I was running previously.  I had Velocity Fusion on Campy Chorus most recently before converting and now I'm running Soma Weymouth on Deore hubs.  Probably gained at least half a pound in wheel weight, plus the non-Ultralight LoupLoup Pass are heavier than the Grand Bois 700x30(32) I was running before.  So in my case I have not ever made a true apples to apples comparison with similar wheel and tire weights.  

Besides the cush factor, the Compass LoupLoup Pass also last way longer than the Grand Bois did, I was only getting about 750 miles out of a rear tire on the 700x30 but with the 650Bx38.  And I do love the cush.

So for me, it's worth it.  YMMV.

I've got the rims and hubs to do a conversion on my Redwood also, but first I am going to run some 700x38 Barlow Pass for a while that I picked up for FREE(!!!!) locally for a while.  Sans fenders, of course, as I don't think they'll fit.  Should be interesting.

-Jim

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Jim Bronson]

Oops didn't finish my sentence.  With the 650Bx38 LoupLoup non-extralight I'm getting between 2000-3000 on rear tires and well I've only changed my front tire once in a year and a half plus of running these, sorta lost track because my speedometer battery died for a couple of months before I replaced it.  But I've gotten about 11,000 Rando K's in that time as well as some of other puttering around riding I do and a few charity rides.

As always, YMMV....

[Lungimsam]

Very interesting comparisons and ideas about effects on speed and handling.

Wonder what would happen if you put ultralight 650c rims and tires on your bike to make for light wheel weight and see if they spin up faster.

Or, perhaps, a frame designed for 700c won't work its best with another wheel size than what it was designed for?

[Kieran J]

If your question relates to the relative weight of the two wheelsets I used and how they affected my ultimate overall impression, I would say they do merit comparison. As much as you can call a shoot-out between 2 different things 'apples to apples', anyways.

The 700c wheels are 32H Ultegra 6500/H plus Son TB14s, whereas the 650b ones are 32H Grand Bois HF hubs mated to A23s. So my conversion wheels are not cheap weighty bricks but rather very light units with extremely smooth bearing action. The tires I used were Jack Brown Greens and Compass BSP in the standard casing.

KJ