Is the Bleriot/Honjos/ Hetres clearance I have not enough?

[lungimsam]

Hello,

I recently installed H50 Honjos on the Bleriot with my Hetres, as you may recall from an earlier post.

I have between what looks like 1-2cm clearance all around. Tightest are under the sidepull brakes. That's the max I can get. Tires spin fine, no rubbing. No rattling.

But on the two commutes I did this week, I repeatedly heard pebbles and rocks rattling through the fenders as I rode over them.

Does this indicate that the clearances are not ample?

Do I need to go to a narrower/smaller tire?

I have SKS Longboards and Hetres on my Sam bike and I rarely hear rocks going through, though the clearances look similar to what I have on the Bleriot.

[Tim Gavin]

I think all fenders do that on occasion.  Maybe you didn't hear it as much with the plastic fenders?  

Yehuda Moon uses it to his advantage, as a weapon in his war against cars.

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[Ron Mc]

my tire wiper installation (supported almost equally with the opposite installation in vintage photographs) even brought up an "incorrect" response from Jan.  

But, they eject everything except dust and water from my Honjos, including Big rocks and Big sticks.  I've done the math and the roadwork - there is no way you're going to flip these around without grossly deforming the fenders, because the fender clearances are tight enough, and anything that would deform the fenders to that extent makes the flip factor moot.  On the contrary, they keep that big stuff out of the fenders, along with all the small stuff.  

They even scrape mud before it enters the fenders.  Of course they only work with slick tires.  I wouldn't use these on the big clearances of my daughter's SKS fenders, but they function perfectly like this on my relatively low-clearance Honjos.  

[Shoji Takahashi]

1-2cm clearance all around sounds like plenty of room. Are you using new-ish tires? New tires seem a bit more tacky and can pick up pebbles and small rocks. After using them for a while, the rocks-in-fenders have diminished. 

[lungimsam]

Couple hundred miles I would guess on these Hetres. I thought about that too.

Though I have the 1cm clearance fender to tire, the stay eyelet nuts are still only 2-3 mm from tire. The lock washer and flat washer on them take up about a mm of space I would guess.

Are they necessary since the nut has a rough surface to its integrated washer?

[Eric Norris]

FWIW, my Hetres seem very adept at picking stuff up. Monsieur Blériot’s rear tire (worn enough to have lost most of the molded tread ribs) snagged both of these items in the same ride on Sunday. The straight piece I’m holding in a gloved hand went through the sidewall and caused a flat; the other was embedded in the tire about 20 miles later but somehow didn’t damage the tube.

https://flic.kr/p/q2b95K 

https://flic.kr/p/pZ5DX5 

Jan Heine reports excellent flat resistance with Grand Bois tires; he should come ride the mean streets of Sacramento County sometime. 

—Eric N
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
www.wheelsnorth.org
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @campyonlyguy

[Ron Mc]

heavy gauge wire is the second-worst hazard on the road - the only thing worse is a y-shaped stick that will plant itself firm and impale your tire as you roll over it.  

Both of these are reasons to carry fold-up spares.  

[Patrick Moore]

1 cm is plenty of space. 2 cm is a gap! If you have 1 cm under your front caliper, you are fine.

Patrick "using tire savers since 1996" Moore

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[lungimsam]

I rechecked and looks like maybe 1cm tops under calipers. Hard to tell for sure as too tight to see under there.
A few 2-5mm from stay eyelet bolts to tires, depends on which fender.
About 1.5 at fender ends from tire to inside of fender.

[Goshen Peter]

With honjos hetres and a Rivendell if there isnt rubbing you are all good, at last thats how i rode the AHH, very tight clearances. I think as the fenders got more and more rock hits they quieted down, now i almost never hear them. Not sure if thats the tires wearing in or the fenders are now nice and grimy and dont give that metallic ping ping when rocks do get up there. 

[hsmitham]

Eric,

I don't buy Jan's Hetre's flat resistance. He can come ride em in LA and see how he fairs. I know, I know others swear by them. It must just be my bad luck.

Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

[Eric Norris]

I’ve been to Seattle and ridden there. The roads don’t *seem* to be magically free of debris, but that’s the only way to explain Jan’s run of good luck. The GBs are nice tires—I really like them—but in my experience they are just as prone to flatting as anything else out there. Maybe more.

—Eric N
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
www.wheelsnorth.org
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @campyonlyguy

[David Hays]

Peter,

You’re running Honjos and Hetres on the Homer(it does have a ring to it doesn’t it) and I wondered are they the hammered Honjos and which model?

Thanks.

David

[Hugh Smitham]

https://flic.kr/p/pgpfKC

https://flic.kr/p/hUrN6m

The first link is the Hetre's casing don't see anything special and doesn't seem substantial. When mounted They rode great. I do try to avoid debris but I'm not fanatical about it, generally more concerned with other large obstacles . I rode them on a fire road in the San Gabriel's which has granite structures exposed  which I suspect  is different from Jan's gravel roads.

The second link is the gash from said ride...tore then the tube squeezed out and ruptured.

Jan did sell me  replacement at cost, so I'll try em again just not on our brand of off road.

Also realize I'm hijacking this post, my apologies. But this tire gets me going.

-Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

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[Jim Bronson]

The new Compass tires seem to have a bit more tread thickness than the
Grand Bois tires, IMO. I think they are a little more flat resistant
than the Grand Bois. That is not to say that you won't get flats, but
I think it's a reasonable amount.

Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Jan Heine]

Compass tires have about the same tread thickness as the Grand Bois for the 700C models, and a bit thinner tread that the (somewhat excessively thick) Grand Bois 650B models. In my experience, thicker tread doesn't really improve flat resistance, at least in the range we are looking at. (Very thin treads do flat more easily, and very, very thick treads may offer extra protection.)

Generally speaking, wider tires that run at lower pressures have far fewer flats than narrower tires that run at higher pressures. My friend Ryan used to have a flat every other ride on his 700C x 25 mm tires. When he got a new bike with Hetres, and more recently, Babyshoe Pass tires, he gets a handful of flats a year – and he rides a lot.

Flat frequency depends on many factors. The biggest one is where you ride, both in terms of the roads you use and where you position yourself on the road. If you ride on shoulders of busy highways, you'll get many flats from all the debris that accumulates there. The same applies if you hug the curb when riding in the city. You get far fewer flats on small backroads, and if you ride further from the curb in the city.

If you mostly ride in the travel lane of cars, you'll get few flats, because the cars "sweep" the roadway clear of debris. (The debris gets flung in the air and lands randomly all over the place. The debris that lands outside the travel lane remains there, whereas the debris in the travel lane gets flung in the air again by the next car, until all debris has landed outside the travel lane.)

That is why I don't get flats touring on little backroads. And I get few flats in the city, since I ride at least 3 feet from the curb. I wrote more about that in this blog post:

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/preventing-flat-tires/

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
www.compasscycle.com

Follow our blog at www.janheine.wordpress.com

[Patrick Moore]

This isn't true in goathead land, ABQ, NM. My 23s consistently get no more flats than my 32s on the same routes, taking all the different kinds of flats into consideration, 99.9% of which are from goatheads, this over 25 years of riding in Albuquerque. Perhaps this isn't "generally speaking".

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote: Generally speaking, wider tires that run at lower pressures have far fewer flats than narrower tires that run at higher pressures.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/12/2014 11:35 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
> This isn't true in goathead land, ABQ, NM. My 23s consistently get no
> more flats than my 32s on the same routes, taking all the different
> kinds of flats into consideration, 99.9% of which are from goatheads,
> this over 25 years of riding in Albuquerque. Perhaps this isn't
> "generally speaking".

Goatheads are only "generally speaking" if you live in Hell.

;-)

[Patrick Moore]

Though they are generally present throughout the SW.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/12/2014 06:05 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Though they are generally present throughout the SW.

As I said, Hell.  By definition, any place where goatheads are "generally present" qualifies in my book as Hell. 

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

I'm pretty consistent with goathead flats across all my tires. Basically once a week no matter what I'm on (32mm-40mm so not the greatest range).

For this reason I'm looking seriously at a tubeless set up that Fred B mentioned on 650B list: WTB ChrisCross and Schwalbe Almotion. 

[Patrick Moore]

I think tire savers make a difference, no matter what width the tire. Also, tubed or tubeless, as long as you have 50 psi in your tires, consider 2 oz of Stan's. As I declaimed ad nauseam 18 months ago, the Parigi Roubaix got goathead flats every 2-5 miles. After Stan's, none - well, one only, before I re-installed the tire savers. With both systems, none.

Patrick Moore, who thinks 1 flat a week is a very light week, in ABQ, NM.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:44 PM, cyclot...@gmail.com <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm pretty consistent with goathead flats across all my tires. Basically once a week no matter what I'm on (32mm-40mm so not the greatest range).

For this reason I'm looking seriously at a tubeless set up that Fred B mentioned on 650B list: WTB ChrisCross and Schwalbe Almotion. 

[jeffrey kane]

'ol Lance raced those seven Le Tours and only had one flat that I can remember ... flats, drywall screws, radial belt wires and nearly invisible shards of glass all live together in a world graced or cursed by luck, if you ask me ... but then again, I don't know squat about goatheads from riding in NYC, thats for sure.

[Wildcat96]

FYI, I run Fatty Rumpkins (they measure a true 41mm) under SKS P50 Longboards on my Sam.  The P50's were a pretty tight fit when I first installed them, but I was able to get at least a couple of mm of additional clearance under the front sidepull by using Sheldon's Fender Nuts and mounting the fender behind the crown.  They pull the fender up a little higher behind the crown.  I now have at least 1cm clearance all around.  Not sure how well they would work with the Honjo's however.

[Tim Gavin]

I also used a Sheldon's nut to mount the tab to the back of the fork.  It resulted in better clearance than with the daruma.  I also bent both front and rear tabs to effectively shorten them and bring the fender as close to the bridge as possible.

I'm running 45 mm VO fenders over 38 mm tires, so the extra clearance is welcome.  As is the extra clearance from using Paul Racers instead of sidepulls that push on the fender.

Likewise, the tightest clearance is at the bolts for the stays.  

I hear pebbles rattle through pretty often.  Yet I've ridden it, with fenders, on rural gravel in Iowa (.5-1" crushed limestone) and never got anything stuck in the fender.  A good reason to keep the fender clearance even, or maybe increasing, towards the front of the bike.  You'd hate to have it narrow towards the front and trap debris.

I believe Honjos, like VO fenders, use 5 mm stays with no quick release.  The FMF Safety Tabs from PDW fit these stays and add quick release safety to your fenders.  

I took a stick in my rear (non QR) P45 fender, and it folded it under the brake bridge at ruined the fender.  So I put these QR's on the front AND the rear fenders now.  One additional advantage of the FMF Safety Tabs is they use a grub/set screw to attach the stay to the safety tab, which makes it much, much easier to finely adjust the length of the stay.  The standard Honjo/VO tabs are attractive in their simplicity, but they were a real pain to adjust when my rack and fenders are on the same bolt (single eyelet Campy 1010s on my Riv).

Cheers,

Tim