New build: Soma GR, and a question

[Jim Bronson]

Well Grant would probably not approve of the amount of seat post showing, but, it seems to work pretty good for me, and I am comfortable riding it.  Maybe would like a tad more elevation to the stem, but in practice riding it around I don't notice.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/23646261@N03/8p64BN/

The question I have is, is that FD going to work for me?  I am thinking no, because the loop around the post halves the amount of cable pull available to the front shifter.  I can't get it to move nearly as much as I need.  The specs said top pull or bottom pull, but really, I think it would be better with top pull.  Too bad.  I bought a used IRD Alpina the other day, I'm going to use that on the Rivendell and try the FD on the Rivendell on my Soma GR.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[John Stowe]

I have a Shimano FD built to the same design, and it seems to have identical lever arm lengths for the top- and bottom-pull configurations, so the amount of cable pull required should be the same. Can you be more specific about the trouble you're having? I took that one off my Sam Hillborne because it wasn't shifting well, especially into the small chainring - my new "road" derailleur that looks like the IRD works great, though. If your problem is similar, then hopefully the fix will be as well.

-John

[ted]

I'm a bit confused. Are you routing the fd cable along the top tube and then down the seat tube? That is the way a top pull fd is designed to work. Pictures look like you have standard down tube cable route for your fd.

[Jim Bronson]

Can't shift into granny, can't shift into big ring.  The derailer does not seem to move to the limits that i set with the screws.  I took the chain off to double check the limit screws and the settings looked fine.

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[Kieran Joyes]

Hey Jim,

What's the stand-over height on your bike? How about your saddle height?

KJ

[Jim Bronson]

Standover is roughly 33.75 with Loup Loup tires, measured just forward of the bottom bracket.

Saddle height from BB spindle is roughly 34" measured along ST axis.  From the floor about 43".

I added some photos to the album in the original post with the Soma side by side with my Rivendell.  Clearly the Rivendell is more pleasing to the eye, but the rider interface points are pretty similar. 

I need a Tallux to get the Soma handlebars up to the exact height of the Rivendell.  The Technomic is already at the minimum insertion point.  But I think it's ok the way it is when i ride it, so that's not a change i am planning on making.

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[Bill Lindsay]

Measure your chainline.  You probably have a roadish chainline, which may explain why your mountain front der can't drop you to the granny.  That's problem #1

If you can't pull up to the big ring either, even with the limits all the way out, then that indicates your shifters don't pull enough cable for that front der.  That's problem #2

If those are your only two problems, then replacing the front der should solve them both.  A road triple front der should work with a roadish chainline.  A shorter lever arm where the cable attaches requires less cable pull to make it move.  

[jinxed]

I think your derailleur should work without issue, but if it's not shifting at all then there must be some issue with the set up. I did notice a couple things...

I see your downtube cable guides are mounted backwards/upside down. The little bullet adjusters hang down from the stops. They just need to switch sides. That shouldn't impede the cable though. It also seems like both your limit screws are pretty far out, so I dont think you have it locked into a short range of motion.

My first thought is to be sure the cable is not accidentally pinched in the bottom bracket guide. Some have a small plate and screw to hold them on and I've had my cables get crimped in there. Along those same lines, trace the entire cable to be sure it's free. To check, just unbolt the cable from the derailleur and while pulling it taut with one hand, move your shift lever with the other. Also not a bad idea to manually pivot the FD to be sure it's not bound up.

The other thing I noticed was how the cable was routed into the pinch bolt. It seems minor, but try running it down through the indent then wrap the cable end under the bolt towards the non drive side. This picture shows the indent pretty well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/23646261@N03/14725333997/in/set-72157646439942592/

Another thing I've done and driven myself crazy with, is not having the front shifter all the way down before I clamp the cable. When I get FD issues, I usually just unbolt the cable and start from scratch. Check my lever, check FD height/position, check inner limit screw, then clamp the cable, slowly shift up to big ring and set outer limit screw, then shift back and forth to be sure all's well.

[Evan Baird]

That FD prolly needs a wider chain line.

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:56:53 PM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

[Jim Bronson]

The cable stops are backwards??? If they are, every bicycle I've ever owned up until now has had them mounted wrong. 

I attached a pic of the cable stops on my Rivendell - with the barrel adjuster on top.  It came this way and it's been to the shop at the LBS many times.  Nobody ever said a word about it.

I think you are right about the cable routing though.  I will change it and see if that helps.

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[David Banzer]

As per the cable stops:
The Riv has the barrel adjusters below the mounting bolt,
The GR has them above.
Yes?

David
Chicago

[Jim Bronson]

No, they are both above the mounting bolt.

Heck, on my Paul Taylor that has head tube mounted cable stops, it would be impossible to put them on below the stops.

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[jinxed]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 7:43:25 PM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote:

No, they are both above the mounting bolt.

I think the confusion might be my "backwards" description. The actual adjuster barrel obviously has to face the front of the bike to accept the cable housing. But it is designed to be mounted hanging toward the bottom of the downtube. The picture of the Rivendell adjusters is correct, the barrels are below the bolt facing forwards. I should not have said they were "backwards"...simply put, they're on the wrong sides. The left and right are transposed which puts the adjusters towards the top tube instead of the ground. It really should have no affect on the shifting, and honestly makes the adjusters easier to reach from the saddle. I only mentioned it because you're trying to identify possible issues.

[David Banzer]

"But it is designed to be mounted hanging toward the bottom of the downtube."

Yup, that's what I meant by above/below, which also could be confusing, because it's relative to a specific point.

In reality, I doubt it would be the source of your shifting woes. I have a bike with Suntour Symmetrics shifters (braze-on mount on top of the dt) that would have the same cable angle to bb guides, and it shifts fine.

David
Chicago

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[Jim Bronson]

Ok sorry, I see what you mean now.  I'll pull the cables back when I get home from vacation and swap the cable stops.  I'll stick to riding the Rivendell for now.

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[Kieran J]

I somehow managed to wind up with two left-hand (FD) cable stops, so one of my bikes has the right-side/RD one mounted in the upside-down orientation. It does visible bend the cable line slightly, but I haven't had any issues with shifting or indexing.

KJ

[Jim Bronson]

The non-matched cable stops are what the shop had.  I was trying to set the bike up as a backup to my Rivendell for a 1200k Grand Randonee and I was in a hurry.

I am visiting in San Jose and I had considered driving up to Rivendell World HQ to pick up their cable stops, but by getting them in San Jose I avoided a 100 mile round trip to Walnut Creek up the I-680.

On Aug 15, 2014 8:17 AM, "David Pertuz" <d.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

This would be a good occasion for me to ask why LH and RH derailleur cable stops are different.

David
Chicago

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[Metin Uz]

Those are in fact matched, they are the higher end (Dura-Ace) Shimano cable stops. What is mounted on the left is intended for the rear derailleur, typically mounted on the right. The lever allows a quick trimming of the rear cable if things go out of adjustment during a ride.

--Metin