Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ??

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Members,

Location: Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

Altitude: 9000 ft.

Date: 26 July 2014

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Nice images,  Saroj ji.

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

See my recent comments about Cirsium falconeri.   The plant you photographed is definitely not the same as C.falconeri

found in Kashmir.

I have indicated that quite a number of the postings on eFI named as C.falconeri are not this species or indeed Cirsiums.

Distinguishing between these thistles is difficult.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Enclosing link if it could help to ID.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=107139

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:52 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

See my recent comments about Cirsium falconeri.   The plant you photographed is definitely not the same as C.falconeri found in Kashmir. I have indicated that quite a number of the postings on eFI named as C.falconeri are not this species or indeed Cirsiums. Distinguishing between these thistles is difficult.

- Chadwell ji

Enclosing link if it could help to ID. http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=107139 Thank you. Saroj Kasaju

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[C CHADWELL]

It will be some time before I can scrutinise these thistles further. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2017, 16:33
Subject: Fwd: Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ??

[C CHADWELL]

Thanks for the link to the current listing of Cirsium species recorded from Nepal but ALL these were

within 'An Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal'  Vol 3 (1982) which covered this genus.

Kitamura & Gould who wrote the account of Asteraceae (then Compositae) stated for C.falconeri in

Nepal that the taxon as recognised is a very variable species - they outlined the differences between

'Kashmir' plants and 'Eastern Himalaya' ones.  They concluded that the amount of variation suggests

that several species may be involved and further study is required.

I am in agreement with this. It does not appear that this study has taken place in the intervening period.

I should be in a position to comment further about the images posted under the name C.falconeri on eFI

but a MAJOR study is required overall - there are limits to what I can do.

For the time-being, my INITIAL impressions were that SOME of the images posted not only did not match

the Kashmir form of C.falconeri but were not the 'Eastern Himalayan Form' either (whatever taxa are decided

upon when a thorough revision has taken place) and may well belong either to other Cirsium species or

related genera.

I cannot meaningful do any MORE with the images you posted at this stage.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2017, 10:16
Subject: [efloraofindia:261049] Re: Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ??

Enclosing link if it could help to ID.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=107139

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:52 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

On 10 Jan 2017 4:31 p.m., "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

See my recent comments about Cirsium falconeri.   The plant you photographed is definitely not the same as C.falconeri

found in Kashmir.

I have indicated that quite a number of the postings on eFI named as C.falconeri are not this species or indeed Cirsiums.

Distinguishing between these thistles is difficult.

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 4:58:07 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

Dear Members,

Location: Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

Altitude: 9000 ft.

Date: 26 July 2014

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Ashutosh Ji,

Some help for ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded Conversation
Subject: Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ??
------------------------

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 10:43 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear Members,

Location: Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

Altitude: 9000 ft.

Date: 26 July 2014

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 6:10 AM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Nice images,  Saroj ji.

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:52 PM
To: <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

On 10 Jan 2017 4:31 p.m., "chrischa...@btinternet.com" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

See my recent comments about Cirsium falconeri.   The plant you photographed is definitely not the same as C.falconeri

found in Kashmir.

I have indicated that quite a number of the postings on eFI named as C.falconeri are not this species or indeed Cirsiums.

Distinguishing between these thistles is difficult.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Enclosing link if it could help to ID.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=107139

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 10:18 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

See my recent comments about Cirsium falconeri.   The plant you photographed is definitely not the same as C.falconeri

found in Kashmir. I have indicated that quite a number of the postings on eFI named as C.falconeri are not this species or indeed Cirsiums. Distinguishing between these thistles is difficult.

- Chadwell ji

Enclosing link if it could help to ID. http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=107139 Thank you. Saroj Kasaju

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:13 AM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Saroj Kasaju]

This ID is still pending ! Opinion from members please!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Any opinion Paradesi Ji ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Date: Fri, May 24, 2019 at 8:55 PM
To: Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 6:33 PM
To: Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

I am thinking you're right Saroj Ji, agreed for flaconeri,

With regards.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Paradesi ji.

Saroj Kasaju

--

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Your opinion Mr. Garg !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Looks different from Cirsium falconeri as per images herein.

Pl. check other species in the checklist. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

I did all possible search !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Cirsium species- Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

This is clearly C. argyracanthus (incl. C. wallichii var. wightii of FBI) easily differentiated by broader inner involucre bracts (but not dilated tips lips like C. wallichii) with spiny tips and characteristic woolly margins, outer with long slender spines

Group discussion at

Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ?? (google.com)

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Cirsium species- Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

This is clearly C. argyracanthus (incl. C. wallichii var. wightii of FBI) easily differentiated by broader inner involucre bracts (but not dilated tips lips like C. wallichii) with spiny tips and characteristic woolly margins, outer with long slender spines

Group discussion at

Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ?? (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Saroj Kumar Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:28:07 PM UTC+5:30
Subject: Cirsium falconeri (Hook.f.) Petr. (provisionally accepted name) ??

[J.M. Garg]

I feel it looks different as per images, references and details at Cirsium argyracanthum

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. see GBIF speciemnes. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

POWO and CoL consider Cirsium wallichii var. wightii (Hook. fil.) K. Vivekanathan under  Cirsium wallichii DC. only. And GBIF specimens look different. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

It is Cirsium nishiokae as per GBIF specimens from Nepal- one and two. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes Mr. Garg !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju