Veganism and vegetarianism in sanskrit or other native Indian texts

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Hemang Chawla

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Aug 26, 2017, 6:51:49 PM8/26/17
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Namaste,

Could someone please direct me to Indian texts (from any epistemology, aastika, or naastika) that speak for veganism and vegetarianism.

Do we have books that deal specifically with this aspect? Any literature sruvey? Compilations?

Thank you,

Hemang,
Transitioning Vegan

Ravi Khangai

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Aug 27, 2017, 10:40:46 PM8/27/17
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Pl see Anushasan Parva of the Mahabharata Ch. 115, 116 (Mahabharata translated in English by MN Dutt, Parimal Publication, Delhi) 

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Hemant Dave

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Aug 30, 2017, 2:41:32 PM8/30/17
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Hi!
Jaina and Buddhist texts refer to ahimsa, and (by extension) to vegetarianism (for ahimsa and vegetarianism, see, M. A. Mehendale, in his collected works, Madhuvidya published by the L. D. Institute of Indology, Amdavad). References may be followed from Alsdorf's Beitraege zur Geschichte von Vegetarismus und Rinderverehrung now also available in English translation. Also see, D. N. Jha's work on cow.
Best,
H.

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kamalesh pathak

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Aug 31, 2017, 1:11:37 AM8/31/17
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All reference in a single book you can find,  it's "क्यों"part 1&2.this book refers many topics which are controversial today,  
Regards 

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Aug 31, 2017, 1:21:23 AM8/31/17
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Dear Sri Hemang Chawla-ji,

Your signature has the tagline 'Transitioning Vegan'.

Based on that it can be inferred that  you are looking for sources in the premodern Indian literature for Veganism and Vegetarianism. 

'Veganism' in the sense of not eating even milk, milk products, butter, ghee etc. , as you can easily imagine, is not so well known in the ancient Indian literature. 

Vegetarianism is THE philosophy of food in Buddhist and Jain literature. 

On the Vedic side, as described in the Vedic literature, food culture was diverse and was different  for different varṇas and āśramas. 

Vegetarianism is found within this diversity alongside non-vegetarianism in that literature. 

From the time of revival and propagation of Vedanta by Sankara and the revival and propagation of Bhakti schools of Vedanta, vegetarianism turned out to be the food culture of all the followers of these schools. Even those portions of Vedic literature which appeared to be indicating say, animal sacrifice in yajñas, were interpreted by these schools to have been 'misunderstood' earlier as nonvegetarian. 
So if you are looking for vegetarian understanding of the 'apparently' nonvegetarian (portions of ) texts, you will be able to get them from the post-Sankara Vedanta and Bhakti Vedanta literature. Some historians see this development within 'Vedic' ('Hindu') culture as an influence of Buddhist and Jain traditions on Vedic culture. 

I don't think the issue of beef-eating is part of your thread - initiating enquiry. 

Beef-eating , if found, whether in an 'apparent' / 'misunderstood' form or otherwise in the 'Vedic' ('Hindu') side of the literature has the same response from the post- S'ankara Vedanta and Bhakti Vedanta literature. In other words, the texts with vegetarian argument that you come across from post-Sankara Vedanta and Bhakti Vedanta literature cover the issue of  how mention of beef-eating in the ancient texts is argued / interpreted by them. 

Mythological narratives of Vedic 'Hinduism' and the food habits described in them need not be a guide for our current food-choice , since we do not in any case follow their costume, the weapons they held or used, their housing style or their housing technology etc. 

Mythological way of looking at the past has its present day alternative, historical way of looking at the past. The same historical critical method which tries to show beef-eating by the ancient Indians tells us that the primitive ancestors of Indians, for that matter, primitive ancestors of all humans walked /ran nude, ate raw, uncooked food. That can be no justification for our walking or running nude or eating raw flesh today. 

Vegetarianisation of Hinduism or sections of it , even if it is the influence of Buddhism or Jainism or any other thing, is similar to developments such as changing from primitive food, clothing and shelter styles into later styles.  

Ancient texts on the issue can be viewed from this perspective.   
   
Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
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Shrikant Jamadagni

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Aug 31, 2017, 2:04:09 AM8/31/17
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namaste

Please read the verses 1 - 56 of Chapter 5 of Manu Smriti.
Even though meat eating (that is done as per prescribed rules) is allowed by Manu he categorically puts his weight behind vegetarianism. He extols the merits earned by NOT eating meat. In the end he remarks that though consuming meat, alcohol and sexual intercourse are not sinful, abstinence of these three bring great rewards.

regards
 
Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru


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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 
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Nagaraj Paturi

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Aug 31, 2017, 5:25:18 AM8/31/17
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The title of the thread has Sanskrit or other native Indian texts.

Tamil Saivism is vegetarian. The word for vegetarian in Tamil is S'aivam. For non-vegetarian it is As'aivam. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Aug 31, 2017, 7:35:06 AM8/31/17
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In the article:


Scroll down to read the section

Vegetarianism As Part Of Saivite Spiritual Tradition

Nagaraj Paturi

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Aug 31, 2017, 7:43:12 AM8/31/17
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Tirukkural, the Tamil classic book has emphatic support for Vegetarianism. That might reflect the author's Jainism. 

But the point is that the book commands unequivocal respect among contemporary Tamils too. 

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 3, 2017, 12:12:24 AM9/3/17
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There are older threads on BVP such as this.

This post by respected Shrivathsa-ji is part of that. 

It refers to his rejoinder to


by respected Satavadhani R Ganesh-ji  

In the comments section of the Indiafacts article above, there is a reference to 

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 3, 2017, 12:18:55 AM9/3/17
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Sri Hemang-ji,

You might like to read:

Ganesh K

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Sep 5, 2017, 3:27:53 AM9/5/17
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
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BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
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Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 7, 2017, 12:30:50 AM9/7/17
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Just received the book Vegetarian Messenger from Forgotten Books.

Can share offline with those interested. 

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Hemang Chawla

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Sep 7, 2017, 1:51:29 PM9/7/17
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Namaste to all,

Thank you all for the various references, especially Patauri ji. I will go through them.

Patauri ji, the aim is to build a grand Indian narrative of Indian vegetarianism and now veganism. The idea of learning from history or doing literature survey must never be equated to "going backward" in terms of regressiveness. In any case the forward-backward dichotomy has hegelian basis of linear history, with no logical equivalence to good or bad in any context. Same with new or primitive. Things must be evaluated for their own merit.

The arguments for no dairy in veganism are two fold in terms of 1) cruelty and 2) consent. The aspect of cruelty seems to be of concern in the olden days. As for consent, the torch of Indian vegan revolution must be held by us and not handed out to the ettic. We must reform from within than utilizing outside resources (alone).  This is the motive behind this thread.

I do not have a query specifically on whether Indians ate beef or not. As with any other decentralized culture, there would have been communities that did and those that did not. Either way, the underlying theme of ahiumsa in different forms is prevalent in the text and civilizational ethos. I would go through the links and the references shared.

Hemang Chawla

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Sep 7, 2017, 1:51:58 PM9/7/17
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I do have a question on "shaakhaahar". A vegan friend pointed out that the word in itself refers to food products from the shaakha, ie the branch. One can extend it to other plant based products. However it does not in itself imply something taken from any animal.

Could someone please share what is the historical basis and etymology of the term shaakhahar? What is your opinion on the inference?

Thank you,
Hemang


On Thursday, 7 September 2017 06:30:50 UTC+2, Nagaraj Paturi wrote:

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 7, 2017, 2:39:12 PM9/7/17
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Dear Sri Hemang-ji,

It is शाकाहार not शाखाहार. 

शाखाहार is a humorous spelling mistake typical of many such sign board spelling errors. 

Then to create an etymology (शाखा + आहार) out of the faulty spelling is the further degree of the humour. 

शाकाहार (शाक + आहार ) is the right word. 

Older use of the term शाक seems to be in contrast to the term पाक . शाकपाक is used as an idiomatic /conventionalised pair of words. शाक seems to be in reference to the uncooked plant product items of a food-menu. पाक seems to be in reference to cooked items of a food-menu. 

शाकाहार seems to be अर्वाचीन प्रयोग . 

 





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Hemang Chawla

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Sep 8, 2017, 5:38:50 AM9/8/17
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Paturi ji

Indeed, it is a funny mistake we see at multiple places. Now that devnagri has started vanishing from sign boards, it gets even more confusing as to which version is correct.

But indeed if it is in reference to "plant product items of a food-menu", when did milk and dairy products come in this category?

Thank you,
Hemang

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 8, 2017, 5:50:33 AM9/8/17
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> But indeed if it is in reference to "plant product items of a food-menu", when did milk and dairy products come in this category?

---- I just said that is शाक is plant product items of a food-menu. I did not say  food-culture called शाकाहार, with only uncooked plant product items in the food menu once existed. 

Milk and dairy products seem to be always a part of a food culture  to which we today give the name 'vegetarian' food culture.

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Sivasenani Nori

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Sep 8, 2017, 7:20:19 AM9/8/17
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There is a discussion in Nirukta about the relationship between names and meanings. Let us take a carpenter. He is called a Takshaa because he shapes wood. Similarly a mendicant is called a Parivraajaka because he wanders without staying at one place. Now, it is quite possible for the carpenter to also wander sometimes and for the Parivraajaka to shape wood sometimes, say for his Danda, but we continue to call the wandering carpenter a Takshaa and a mendicant working a piece of wood as a Parivraajaka. So one principle of names is that, naming is based on mukhya-karma, the main characteristic. That is the way of the world, lokavyavahaara (which is taken as a given by Sastras)

So milk and honey might not be from Saakas (vegetables) and mutton might be ultimately from vegetables (since goats eat grass and vegetables to grow its flesh), but the former is Saakaahaara and the latter maaMsaahaara. This is lokavyavahaara.

Regards
N. Siva Senani

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 8, 2017, 3:02:35 PM9/8/17
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I know a few Sanskrit words related to food-habit /food-culture. 

क्रव्याद

कुणपाशन 

निरशन

महाशन 

मृताशन 

अवकाद

अहुताद 

पिप्पलाद /पिप्पलाशन

मांसाद

पिष्टाद

Scholars may add more. 

Let us see if we get any word close to vegetarian.




Dr. P. Ramanujan

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Sep 8, 2017, 5:36:26 PM9/8/17
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अन्नाद
अन्नादी (प्रजा)
कृष्टपच्य
अकृष्टपच्य
साशन
अनशन
आमाद
...
 
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
 
 
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
 
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
 
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
 
 
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
 
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
 
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 


 
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
 
 
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
 
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
 
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 


 
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
 
 
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
 
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
 
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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Hari Parshad Das

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Sep 8, 2017, 10:19:20 PM9/8/17
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how about the term 'निरामिष'? The Vacaspatyam says:


निरामिष¦ त्रि० निर्गतमामिमभिलाषो मांसाद्यामिषं वा
यस्मात् प्रा० ब० । १ लोभशून्ये “अध्यात्मरतिरासनो निर-
प्रेक्षो निरामिषः” मनुः २ र्मासाद्यामिषहीने च “सा-
मिषं कुररं दृष्ट्वा बध्यमानं निरामिषैः । आमिषस्य परि-
त्यागात् कुररः सुखमेधते” भा० शा० ११९ अ० । ३ आमिष-
रहिते अन्नादौ । “नैवेद्यैश्च निरामिषैः” ति० त० ।

sādhu-caraṇa-rajo'bhilāṣī,

hari parshad das.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 8, 2017, 11:23:26 PM9/8/17
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Thus it appears that the word S'aakaahar , either in Sanskrit or in other Indian languages is a neologism. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 8, 2017, 11:27:41 PM9/8/17
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 S'aakaahaara not S'aakaahar 

Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 9, 2017, 8:10:37 AM9/9/17
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The word s'aakaahaara is a recently coined word does not mean that the food habit /food culture of vegetarianism is recent in India. 

Sri Hari Parshad Das-ji's and other refences may help in knowing traditional words used in reference to vegetarianism. 


Venkata Sriram

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Sep 9, 2017, 11:12:41 AM9/9/17
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The following info may be of use:

In  एकादशोऽध्यायः of दुर्गासप्तशती, the Goddess describes how She took the form of ‘shAkambhari’ when there was famine on Earth due to lack of rains.

 

ततोऽहमखिलं लोकमात्मदेहसमुद्भवैः ।

भरिष्यामि सुराः शाकैरावृष्टेः प्राणधारकैः ॥ ४८

शाकम्भरीति विख्यातिं तदा यस्याम्यहं भुवि ।

तत्रैव च वधिष्यामि दुर्गमाख्यं महासुरम् ॥ ४९

 

The Goddess would create the शाकः out of Her own limbs and nourish the living beings on Earth.  Owing to this, She is known as शाकम्भरी. The commentator of ‘शान्तनवी’ describes the शाकः as ‘शकैः हरितकैः पत्राद्यैः । शाकाख्यं पत्रपुष्पादि ।


Regs,

Sriram

Hari Parshad Das

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Sep 9, 2017, 2:59:38 PM9/9/17
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The Mahābhāṣya says: शाकभोजी पार्थिवः शाकपार्थिवः

here, the term शाकभोजी can be considered as a synonym for the term शाकाहारी

sādhu-caraṇa-rajo'bhilāṣī,

hari parshad das.

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Sep 9, 2017, 11:20:54 PM9/9/17
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Excellent!

Very close to शाकाहारी.

Now the next question would be are there any more details available to know if this refers to a food-culture? 

Sri Hemanth-ji's question would be whether शाकभोजी consumed milk and dairy products or not.

Subrahmanyam Korada

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Sep 10, 2017, 1:42:08 AM9/10/17
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नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

The term 'शाक’ in ' शाकभोजी ’ is an उपलक्षणम् --

काकेभ्यो दधि रक्ष्यताम् -- here one has to take the word - ' काकेभ्यः ’  as  काकादिभ्यः  - so that even a child who is put on guard would not fail to arrest any agent that may spoil the curd - काकः, श्वा , मार्जालः etc.

अजहल्लक्षणा लोके --

काकेभ्यो रक्ष्यतां सर्पिरिति बालो’पि चोदितः ।
उपघातपरे वाक्ये न श्वादिभ्यो न रक्षति ॥  

                                        ------ वाक्यपदीयम् , वक्यकाण्डः - 312 

बालः = one who is not trained in व्याकरणम् etc.

नञ्द्वयम् निश्चयार्थे  -- न रक्षति इति न = अवश्यं रक्षति एव ।

What is सर्पिः ? --

सर्पिः विलीनमाज्यं स्यात् घनीभूतं घृतं विदुः ।
विलीनार्धमायुतं तु नवनीतं यतो घृतम् ॥

                                          ---- ऐत ब्रा व्याख्या - षड्गुरुशिष्य, 1-4-7-10
विलीनम्  = clarified

क्षीरम् , दधि , घृतम् etc (पञ्चगव्यम् ) are not considered as मांसाहार and are  prescribed in स्मृतिs during उपवास etc ।

So , the शिष्टाचार is प्रमाणम् ।

The fact is that even if it is considered as शाक , कलञ्जम् (onion) is not consumed in orthodox families such as ours. On the other hand we may consume , when  needed , महौषधम् / लशुनम्
 ( garlic) , i e as an औषधम् ।

The fact  is that even मांसम्  can be consumed for medicinal purposes --

घृतेन वर्धते बुद्धिः क्षीरेणायुष्यवर्धनम् ।
शाकेन वर्धते व्याधिः मांसं  मांसेन वर्धते ॥

In our families it has been an आचार , that newly delivered ladies are given Brandy that would sustain them during post-delivery period .

न मांसभक्षणे दोषो न मद्ये न च मैथुने ।
प्रवृत्तिरेषा भूतानां निवृत्तिस्तु महाफला ॥

                                          ------- भृगु  in  मनुस्मृति


सात्त्विकाहर is recommended in भगवद्गीता for  सात्त्विकप्रवृत्ति  and finally मोक्ष । 

मांस is तामसाहार ।

कार्यं निदानाद्धि गुणानधीते  -- श्रीहर्षः , नैषधीयचरितम् - 1

Sometimes it is different --

अब्भक्षः ( वसिष्ठस्मृतिः - 14-4,  पस्पशा - महाभाष्यम्) , वायुभक्षः (याज्ञवल्क्यस्मृतिः - 3-55, पस्पशा-महाभाष्यम् ) -- अप एव  भक्षयति , वायुमेव भक्षयति  ( सर्वं पदं सावधारणम्  इति न्यायः - शब्दरत्नः , एकशेषः) ।

न भक्षयति यो मांसं व्याधिभिश्च न पीड्यते 

                                     --- भृगु in मनुस्मृति , 5-50

As far as पापम् is considered , both , plucking leaves / fruits , cutting plants etc and killing a bird / animal , are equally sinful . That is why पार्वती was given the name अपर्णा ( does not pluck even leaves due to fear of sin ) .

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)
Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada
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