Mahabharata Santiparva Chapter 337 on рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН

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shankara

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Nov 20, 2015, 12:02:01тАпPM11/20/15
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Pranams to all,

Mahabharata Santiparva Chapter 337 (in Gita Press edition and Chitrasala edition) discusses рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН - non-performance of animal sacrifice. To illustrate this Bhishma narrates the story of Uparichara Vasu and the debate between devas and rishis regarding animal sacrifice. As per the tika of Nilakantha, the purpose of this chapter is avoidance of animal sacrifice - рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН

I am giving below a few verses from the chapter. This might be helpful in locating the chaper (since chapter numbers are not the same in various editions of Mahabharata).

рдЛрд╖рдп рдКрдЪреБрдГ||
рдмреАрдЬреИрд░реНрдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗрд╖реБ рдпрд╖реНрдЯрд╡реНрдпрдорд┐рддрд┐ рд╡реИ рд╡реИрджрд┐рдХреА рд╢реНрд░реБрддрд┐рдГ | рдЕрдЬрд╕рдЮреНрдЬреНрдЮрд╛рдирд┐ рдмреАрдЬрд╛рдирд┐ рдЫрд╛рдЧрдВ рди рдШреНрдирдиреНрддреБрдорд░реНрд╣рде ||рек||
рдиреИрд╖ рдзрд░реНрдордГ рд╕рддрд╛рдВ рджреЗрд╡рд╛ рдпрддреНрд░ рд╡рдзреНрдпреЗрдд рд╡реИ рдкрд╢реБрдГ | рдЗрджрдВ рдХреГрддрдпреБрдЧрдВ рд╢реНрд░реЗрд╖реНрдардВ рдХрдердВ рд╡рдзреНрдпреЗрдд рд╡реИ рдкрд╢реБрдГ ||рел||

I would like to know whether the same story or other similar stories are found in other Puranas or Vedic literature. I request the all learned members of this forum to help me to identify similar passages in other Puranas or Vedic literature.
┬а
regards
shankara

Surendra Mohan Mishra

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Nov 20, 2015, 11:26:00тАпPM11/20/15
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one could look to ishvara krishna's sankhyakarika verse no. 2 and it's comms. 'aja' could mean both. but it could not be so that people mistook 'aja'(old grain unfit to germinate) for 'aja' (goat). 'adhvara' for a sacrifice also shows absence of violence. kalidasa may be seen for his ' pas'umaaranakarmadaaruno 'nukampaamriduko 'pi s'ritriyah' etc. as manu says: krita yuga is tapas, tretaa for satya, dvaapara for sacrifices and kali for daana !

--
рдирд┐рд░рд╛рд╢реАрд░реНрдирд┐рд░реНрдордореЛ рднреВрддреНрд╡рд╛ рдпреБрдзреНрдпрд╕реНрд╡ рд╡рд┐рдЧрддрдЬреНрд╡рд░рдГредред (рдн.рдЧреА.)
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Hnbhat B.R.

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Nov 22, 2015, 11:55:11тАпPM11/22/15
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Very good finding. Our ancestors misunderstood the word рдЕрдЬ in the context of Yaga, for millenniums and flown blood of animals for their fame!

'рдорд╣рд╛рдирджреА рдЪрд░реНрдорд░рд╛рд╢реЗрд░реБрддреНрд╡рд▓реЗрджрд╛рддреН рд╕рд╕реГрдЬреЗ рдпрдд:
рддрддрд╢реНрдЪрд░реНрдордгреНрд╡рддреАрддреНрдпреЗрд╡рдВ рд╡рд┐рдЦреНрдпрд╛рддрд╛ рд╕ рдорд╣рд╛рдирджреАред'рдорд╣рд╛рднрд╛рд░рдд, рд╢рд╛рдВрддрд┐рдкрд░реНрд╡, 29, 123

рдЖрд░рд╛рдзреНрдпреИрдирдВ рд╢рд░рд╡рдирднрд╡рдВ рджреЗрд╡рдореБрд▓реНрд▓рдШрд┐рддрд╛рдзреНрд╡рд╛, рд╕рд┐рджреНрдзрджреНрд╡рдиреНрджреНрд╡реИрд░реНрдЬрд▓рдХрдгрднрдпрд╛рджреНрд╡реАрдгрд┐рднрд┐рд░реНрджрддреНрдд рдорд╛рд░реНрдЧ: рд╡реНрдпрд╛рд▓рдореНрдмреЗрдерд╛рд╕реНрд╕реБрд░рднрд┐рддрдирдпрд╛рд▓рдВрднрдЬрд╛рдВ рдорд╛рдирдпрд┐рд╖реНрдпрдиреН,
рд╕реНрддреНрд░реЛрддреЛрдореВрд░реНрддреНрдпрд╛ рднреБрд╡рд┐ рдкрд░рд┐рдгрддрд╛рдВ рд░рдиреНрддрд┐рджреЗрд╡рд╕реНрдп рдХреАрд░реНрддрд┐рдореНред'

Meghaduta of Kalidasa

So it came popular in local people that goat is sacrificed in Yaga:

рдЕрд╢реНрд╡рдВ рдиреИрд╡ рдЧрдЬрдВ рдиреИрд╡ рд╡реНрдпрд╛рдШреНрд░рдВ рдиреИрд╡ рдЪ рдиреИрд╡ рдЪ |┬а
рдЕрдЬрд╛рдкреБрддреНрд░рдВ┬ардмрд▓рд┐рдВ рджрджреНрдпрд╛рддреН рджреЗрд╡реЛ рджреБрд░реНрдмрд▓рдШрд╛рддрдХрдГ!!

And there was not any one to correct the misunderstanding so far to save millions of lives of goats sacrificed.

Even in grammar also the misunderstanding continued :

рдкреНрд░реЗрд╖реНрдпрдмреНрд░реБрд╡реЛрд░реНрд╣рд╡рд┐рд╖реЛ рджреЗрд╡рддрд╛рд╕рдореНрдкреНрд░рджрд╛рдиреЗрее┬ареиредрейредремрез

Commentary provides the example:

рдЕрдЧреНрдирдпреЗ рдЫрд╛рдЧрд╕реНрдп рд╣рд╡рд┐рд╖реЛ рд╡рдкрд╛рдпрд╛ рдореЗрджрд╕рдГ рдкреНрд░реЗрейрд╖реНрдпред рдЕрдЧреНрдирдпреЗ рдЫрд╛рдЧрд╕реНрдп рд╣рд╡рд┐рд╖реЛ рд╡рдкрд╛рдпреИ рдореЗрджрд╕реЛ рд╜рдиреБрдмреНрд░реВрд╣рд┐рейред┬ардкреНрд░реЗрд╖реНрдпрдмреНрд░реБрд╡реЛрдГ рдЗрддрд┐ рдХрд┐рдореН?┬ардЕрдЧреНрдирдпреЗ рдЫрд╛рдЧрдВ рд╣рд╡рд┐рд░реНрд╡рдкрд╛рдВ рдореЗрджреЛ рдЬреБрд╣реБрдзрд┐ред┬а

A small doubt on the subject discussed:


рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН - non-performance of animal sacrifice.

As I can understand the word рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ means wild beasts and like Tiger, Lion and such wild animals are never sacrificed, even by gross misunderstanding but only Ajaрд╝-s as the Subhasita says.

And there is no need to avoid the sacrifice of such рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ as the title gives. And the рдЕрдЬ the goat is not a рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ animal at all to be included in the list. How it could be included?

shankara

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Nov 23, 2015, 12:29:30тАпAM11/23/15
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Mishraji,

Thank you very much for giving useful references. I will explore them.

In fact I didn't mean that our ancestors mistook the meaning of Aja. I am merely try to find out whether there are other similar discussion/debates in our ancient texts on the ethics of animal sacrifice, as we find in the story of in Mahabharata Santiparva quoted in my query.
┬а
regards
shankara


From: Surendra Mohan Mishra <dr.surendramo...@gmail.com>
To: рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2015 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: {рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН} Mahabharata Santiparva Chapter 337 on рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН

shankara

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Nov 23, 2015, 12:36:20тАпAM11/23/15
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Bhat mahodaya,


I didn't mean that our ancestors mistook the meaning of Aja. I am merely try to find out whether there are other similar discussion/debates in our ancient texts on the ethics of animal sacrifice, as we find in the story of in Mahabharata Santiparva quoted in my query.

The word рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН was not coined by me. I just quoted it from the Mahabharata Tika of Nilakantha Chaturdhara. I assumed that its meaning must be 'non-performance of animal sacrifice' or 'avoiding animal sacrifice in Yajnas'. Please correct me if I am wrong.
┬а
regards
shankara


From: Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2015 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: {рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН} Mahabharata Santiparva Chapter 337 on рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН

Surendra Mohan Mishra

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Nov 23, 2015, 5:34:27тАпAM11/23/15
to рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН
Good discussion. I think 'himsra-yajna' should mean a sacrifice involving violence to animals. Since at one point of time such animal-slaughter-involving sacrifices were there, the need arose to get rid of them.During Sandhi-puujaa in Navaraatra a goat that is being sacrificed is told: рдЫрд╛рдЧ рддреНрд╡рдВ┬а┬ардмрд▓рд┐рд░реВрдкреЗрдг рдордо рдкрд╛рд░реНрд╢реНрд╡рдорд┐рд╣рд╛рдЧрддрдГ / рдЕрддрд╕реНрддреНрд╡рд╛рдВ рдШрд╛рддрдпрд┐рд╖реНрдпрд╛рдорд┐ рдпрд╕реНрдорд╛рджреНрдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗ рд╡рдзреЛ 'рд╡рдзрдГ //

Sacrifice involving violence was prevalent and this was the main cause why Mahavir ┬аand Buddha preached against violence.Jayadev wrote: 'nindasi yajnavidher ahaha s'rutijaatam sadaya-hridaya-darshita-pas'ughaatam' etc.




Shrivathsa B

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Nov 23, 2015, 5:41:13тАпAM11/23/15
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hariH OM,
Sir,

┬а┬а I have touched one aspect of this in the following article:
http://paryayavak.blogspot.in/2015/11/the-hindu-view-of-food-and-drink-a-critique.html

svasti,
┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а JAYA BHAVAANII BHAARATII,
┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а┬а shrivathsa.

Nabanarayan Bandyopadhyay

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Nov 23, 2015, 7:48:22тАпAM11/23/15
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Dear all,
There is a book entitled Pashvaalambhamiimaam.saa published by Anandashram, Pune, on the topic under discussion. Interested scholars can go tthrough it. Details of the publication are attached and the book can be downloaded from the site:http://www.sanskritebooks.org/
Best
Nabanarayan Bandyopadhyay
ASS_132_Pasvalambhamimansa_-_VS_Kinjawadekar_1923.pdf

Dr.S.R.Leela(MLC)

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Nov 23, 2015, 10:23:26тАпAM11/23/15
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In any case millions of lives of goats would not have been saved for the simple reason that goats are domesticated for the sole purpose of consuming their meat.

Leela s.r

Sent from my iPad

Hnbhat B.R.

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Nov 23, 2015, 10:50:50тАпAM11/23/15
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On 23-Nov-2015 8:53 pm, "'Dr.S.R.Leela(MLC)' via рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> In any case millions of lives of goats would not have been saved for the simple reason that goats are domesticated for the sole purpose of consuming their meat.
>
> Leela s.r
>
>

The question discussed in the topic is not on eating goats on food in general, but the sacrifice of goats in рдпрд╛рдЧ. Please read the question once again in the context, mistaking the word рдЕрдЬ for goat to be sacrificed in рдпрд╛рдЧ.

Consider the amount of animals to make a river of flesh and blood to make the river рдЪрд░реНрдордгрд╡рддреА as declared in Mahabharata and sung as the glory Rantideva flowing as a river. It will be clear the question┬а of eating goat for food does not enter the discussion as it is not by misunderstanding of the word рдЕрдЬ.

Hnbhat B.R.

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Nov 23, 2015, 11:17:09тАпAM11/23/15
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On 23-Nov-2015 4:04 pm, "Surendra Mohan Mishra" <dr.surendramo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good discussion. I think 'himsra-yajna' should mean a sacrifice involving violence to animals. Since at one point of time such animal-slaughter-involving sacrifices were there, the need arose to get rid of them.During Sandhi-puujaa in Navaraatra a goat that is being sacrificed is told: рдЫрд╛рдЧ рддреНрд╡рдВ┬а┬ардмрд▓рд┐рд░реВрдкреЗрдг рдордо рдкрд╛рд░реНрд╢реНрд╡рдорд┐рд╣рд╛рдЧрддрдГ / рдЕрддрд╕реНрддреНрд╡рд╛рдВ рдШрд╛рддрдпрд┐рд╖реНрдпрд╛рдорд┐

рдпрд╕реНрдорд╛рджреНрдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗ рд╡рдзреЛ 'рд╡рдзрдГ //

This seems to follow the principle of рдореАрдорд╛рдВрд╕рд╛

рдпрд╕реНрдорд╛рджреНрдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗ рд╡рдзреЛ 'рд╡рдзрдГ //

which means the рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ is рдпрд╛рдЧ is not considered as рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ at all. I remember it reading in рдиреНрдпрд╛рдпрд╕рд┐рджреНрдзрд╛рдиреНрддрдореБрдХреНрддрд╛рд╡рд▓рд▓реА. It might be found in original рдореАрдорд╛рдВрд╕рд╛ works..

The general Vedic injunction on рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ reads as рдорд╛ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрдпрд╛рддреН рд╕рд░реНрд╡реЗ рднреВрддрд╛рдирд┐ holds good even herbals also.

It is prayed рд╕реНрд╡рдзрд┐рддрддреЗ рдореИрдиреЗ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реАрдГ.

Another aspect of рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ in рдпрд╛рдЧ is the рд╢реНрдпреЗрдирдпрд╛рдЧ. The killing of рд╢реНрдпреЗрди bird in sacrifice is not considered as рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ as it is ordained for the рдпрд╛рдЧ in Veda. But рд╢реНрдпреЗрдирдпрд╛рдЧ itself is considered as рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ due to the killing person through this рд╢реНрдпреЗрдирдпрд╛рдЧ. This killing is рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛.

The question raised is in line with рдорд╛ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрдпрд╛рддреН рд╕рд░реНрд╡рд╛ рднреВрддрд╛рдирд┐ and raises voice against the theory that the killing of animals in Yaga is not рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛.

рдЕрднреНрдпрдВрдХрд░рдХреБрд▓реЛрддреНрдкрдиреНрдирдГ рд╢реНрд░реАрдкрд╛рджрдГ |

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Nov 23, 2015, 6:08:07тАпPM11/23/15
to рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН, shanka...@yahoo.com
Thinking of the etymology of the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ from Dhaatu┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реН┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ should mean cruelty. That should include cruelty of any kind, not just to animals.┬а
It is true that the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ is very closely connected to┬ардкрд╢реБ. But as an independent word, the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ need not be always connected only with┬ардкрд╢реБ.┬а
Actually┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ is such wild animal for whom,┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛ is essential not only┬аfor its subsistence, but it is also its survival instinct. ┬аNobody has ever heard of a┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ being sacrificed. So Question of┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН does not arise for any┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ.┬а
I think one must first decipher the compound word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН┬аand only then discuss whether the word means cruelty only to animals. May I decipher it as┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рд╕реНрдп рдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗ┬ард╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН┬аor as┬ардпрд╕реНрдорд┐рдиреН рдпрдЬреНрдЮреЗ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдВ рддрд╕реНрдп рд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН┬а
In Apte's online dictionary meaning of the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ (an adjective)┬аis given as┬аmurderous animal. But the meaning of┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ is given┬аas a beast of prey. Somehow the meaning of┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдкрд╢реБ as 'a beast of prey'┬аdoes not appeal.

Anyway looking at the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН, which is under discussion, the word itself does not contain┬ардкрд╢реБ. Should not we then think of the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН independent of any context with┬ардкрд╢реБ ?┬а


Hnbhat B.R.

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Nov 23, 2015, 9:40:16тАпPM11/23/15
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On 24-Nov-2015 4:38 am, "рдЕрднреНрдпрдВрдХрд░рдХреБрд▓реЛрддреНрдкрдиреНрдирдГ рд╢реНрд░реАрдкрд╛рджрдГ |" <sl.abh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thinking of the etymology of the word┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ from Dhaatu┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реН┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ should mean cruelty. That should include cruelty of any kind, not just to animals.┬а

┬арей.реи.резремрен┬ардирдорд┐-рдХрдореНрдкрд┐-рд╕реНрдореНрдпрдЬрд╕-рдХрдо-рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕-рджреАрдкреЛ рд░рдГ ред┬а

As per the above derivation, it should not mean cruelty, but as a noun or adjective it should mean "cruel" or one that kills others regularly.

рдирдореНрдпрд╛рджрд┐рднреНрдпрдГ рдзрд╛рддреБрднреНрдпрдГ рддрдЪреНрдЫреАрд▓рд╛рджрд┐рд╖реБ рдХрд░реНрддреГрд╖реБ рд░рдГ рдкреНрд░рддреНрдпрдпреЛ рднрд╡рддрд┐ред рдирдореНрд░рдВ рдХрд╛рд╖реНрдардореНред рдХрдореНрдкреНрд░рд╛ рд╢рд╛рдЦрд╛ред рд╕реНрдореЗрд░рдВ рдореБрдЦрдореНред рдЕрдЬрд╕реНрд░рдВ рдЬреБрд╣реЛрддрд┐ред рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдВ рд░рдХреНрд╖рдГред рджреАрдкреНрд░рдВ рдХрд╛рд╖реНрдардореНред рдЕрдЬрд╕реНрд░рдореН рдЗрддрд┐ рдЬрд╕реБ рдореЛрдХреНрд╖рдгреЗ рдирдЮреНрдкреВрд░реНрд╡реЛ рд░рдкреНрд░рддреНрдпрдпрд╛рдиреНрддрдГ рдХреНрд░рдпрд╛рд╕рд╛рддрддреНрдпреЗ рд╡рд░реНрддрддреЗред

All the words have the same meaning as the participles and used as adjective. Exception being рдЕрдЬрд╕реНрд░рдореН frequent used as рдирдЮреН compound.

рдирдореНрд░ - bending, bowing etc. рджреАрдкреНрд░рдо -- burning, shining brightly etc. Hence рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ should not mean cruelty.

Surendra Mohan Mishra

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Nov 24, 2015, 4:19:22тАпAM11/24/15
to рднрд╛рд░рддреАрдпрд╡рд┐рджреНрд╡рддреНрдкрд░рд┐рд╖рддреН
рдирдорд╛рдВрд╕рд┐ / рддрджреЗрд╡рд╛рддреНрд░ рд╡рд┐рд╡рдХреНрд╖рд┐рддрдВ рдордиреНрдпреЗ / рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░ рдЗрддрд┐┬ард╣рд┐рдВрд╕рд╛рд╢реАрд▓рдГ рддрд╛рдЪреНрдЫреАрд▓реНрдпрдкреНрд░рддреНрдпрдпрдпреЛрдЧрд╛рддреН / рддрд╛рджреГрд╢рдГ рдпрдЬреНрдЮ: рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрдГ / рддрджреНрд╡рд░реНрдЬрдирдореН рдЙрдкрджрд┐рд╖реНрдЯрдВ рднрд╛рд░рддреЗ / рддрдерд╛ рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╛ рднрд╡рдиреНрддрд┐ рд╕реНрдореЗрддрд┐ рддреЗрди рдЪ ┬ардкреНрд░рддреАрдпрддреЗ'рдкрд┐ / рдЕрдзреНрд╡рд░рдГ рдЕрд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░реЛ рдпрдЬреНрдЮрдГ рдЗрддрд┐ рд╡реНрдпрд╛рдЦреНрдпрд╛рдирдореН / рдпрдЬреНрдЮрд╢рдмреНрджрд╕реНрддреБ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рд╛рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░реЛрднрдпрд╡рд╛рдЪреА / рдХрд┐рдордзреНрд╡рд░рд╢рдмреНрджрдГ рд╣рд┐рдВрд╕реНрд░рдпрдЬреНрдЮрдорд╛рддреНрд░рдмреЛрдзрдХрдГ ? рддрд╕реНрдп рд╡рд╛ рдзреНрд╡рд░рд┐рдзрд╛рддреНрд╡рд░реНрдерд╡реНрдпрддрд┐рд░рд┐рдХреНрддрдВ┬а┬ард╡реНрдпреБрддреНрдкрддреНрддреНрдпрдиреНрддрд░рдореН рдЕрд╕реНрддреАрддрд┐ рдЬрд┐рдЬреНрдЮрд╛рд╕реЗ /

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рдирд┐рд░рд╛рд╢реАрд░реНрдирд┐рд░реНрдордореЛ рднреВрддреНрд╡рд╛ рдпреБрдзреНрдпрд╕реНрд╡ рд╡рд┐рдЧрддрдЬреНрд╡рд░рдГредред (рдн.рдЧреА.)
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