Must step over 2 N Back to increase IQ?

[Bryskens]

Do you think its any idea for me to continue working with
Brainworkshop's version of Dual N Back?

Cause i know that i will fail to succeed to increase myself above 2 N back.
I'm so used to 2 N back after working on that level for a year so i
cant swap attention pattern i think.

When i view my workingmemory in daily life i see it as i can hold 2 N back in my head
in various situation..if i try to store more i loose, in that perspective maybe i cant increase
my intelligence any more unless i take the next step to 3 N back

Therefore my 25 sessions a day is maybe a waste unless i step up?

[Marc Howard]

I am in a similar situation however I can complete 2 N Back and have the software auto-upgrade me to Dual 3 Back but that's where I seem to fail miserably--occasionally getting up to 40% but I think mostly by guesswork.

I've only been at it for about a few weeks but haven't been very consistent. I also feel a bit discouraged so I've been meditating a lot more in the hope to be able to boost my focus then go bank and try N Back again.

Sorry I didn't really answer your question but at least wanted to let you know that you are not the only one on this tough pickle. I too would love to hear tips from "the pros" on ways to increase levels. I refuse to believe my IQ is a birth limitation and am willing to do whatever it takes to at least enhance my working memory.

[Brandon Woodson]

I don't believe WM training will improve general intelligence - but that point aside, it might facilitate auditory WM interventions to have subjects thoroughly study the 44 phonemes of the English language as discrete units in a strictly *comparative* manner.

I risk sounding like I'm splitting hairs here; but the difference between comparing the unique auditory and kinesthetic experience of speaking an individual phoneme with the (however slightly) dissimilar experience of speaking another and intuitively reciting strings of random auditory stimuli with some stepwise overview (as done in an n-back task) might be the functional difference between a top-down and bottom-up approach to processing and memorizing auditory stimuli.

The subject might, through sharper distinction of sound and feel, "close" the set of possible building units, or at least give the mental impression of closure, following some period of crystallization - giving the auditory processing systems of the mind some framework onto which it can latch the endless procession of new temporary memories.

Most, if not all, examples of superior memory ability seem to have some standout mnemonic "fixture" as an operative feature. Even theories of adaptation of neural activity implicitly presume this type of enhancement.

The possibility is (at the very least) plausible to me that, in certain persons with naturally superior auditory recall, a heightened level of differentiation between modules of sound might already occur naturally as a decisive factor in memory performance.


--Brandon

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[Charles J. Daniels]

Since there's been confusion in this post, can you clarify -- are you questioning going from Dual N Back to Triple N Back, or from Dual 2 Back to Dual 3 Back?

--charlie 

[Charles J. Daniels]

Brain Workshop supports Triple N Back, by the way, so if you wanted to shift into a higher gear, you're still covered. Check out the Help/Tutorial from the main screen. 

[Bryskens]

"Since there's been confusion in this post, can you clarify -- are you questioning going from Dual N Back to Triple N Back, or from Dual 2 Back to Dual 3 Back?

Brain Workshop supports Triple N Back, by the way, so if you wanted to shift into a higher gear, you're still covered. Check out the Help/Tutorial from the main screen"

Now i have realized  how i can express this question in a simple matter

I wonder if you can continue to increase your working mem on the same N back level as long
as you train as often you can 25 sessions per day?

Maybe you wont increase the general intelligence by staying on the same level
but still fray fray fraying! would make you memorize information better in reality?.

Because i feel and suspect i have started to memorize facts better from school now after playing
N back 2 for a year, but at the same time it could be for other reasons? or im simply
imagine it!
 

[Bryskens]

Den måndag 26 januari 2015 kl. 18:07:13 UTC+1 skrev Brandon Woodson:

I don't believe WM training will improve general intelligence - but that point aside, it might facilitate auditory WM interventions to have subjects thoroughly study the 44 phonemes of the English language as discrete units in a strictly *comparative* manner.

I risk sounding like I'm splitting hairs here; but the difference between comparing the unique auditory and kinesthetic experience of speaking an individual phoneme with the (however slightly) dissimilar experience of speaking another and intuitively reciting strings of random auditory stimuli with some stepwise overview (as done in an n-back task) might be the functional difference between a top-down and bottom-up approach to processing and memorizing auditory stimuli.

The subject might, through sharper distinction of sound and feel, "close" the set of possible building units, or at least give the mental impression of closure, following some period of crystallization - giving the auditory processing systems of the mind some framework onto which it can latch the endless procession of new temporary memories.

Most, if not all, examples of superior memory ability seem to have some standout mnemonic "fixture" as an operative feature. Even theories of adaptation of neural activity implicitly presume this type of enhancement.

--Brandon

For me who don't have English as primary language i get some troubles to understand your therms ^^
But what i could understand was that i find this peace extra interesting

"The possibility is (at the very least) plausible to me that, in certain persons with naturally superior auditory recall, a heightened level of differentiation between modules of sound might already occur naturally as a decisive factor in memory performance."

I have a wery good auditory recall at the same time a crappy auditory recall..but in different areas of it.

Trouble memorizing words when i speak, words that i search for..also it takes time to learn the
meaning of new synonyms

Is this related to the things you wrote above?

[whoisbambam]

i don't think it would improve, but it may not lose either

it may improve 'working memory', not IQ

2 nback is low--don't worry, i had to start at 1.

you dont go for perfection....that will hinder improvement in working memory--you need to continue to have difficulty with the game. trying 3 is very important.

you can make adjustments to tolerate 'perfectionism' to make progress.....you can change the speed, interference, etc.

i posted stuff awhile back on how to change the configuration to change the speed, interference, and another setting i forgot now......

i lowered the settings first.....nearly mastered the level at the lower settings......then i slowly increased the settings (but dont increase interference too much as it seems to have some strange effect if you increase it too much on the lower settings)......then i went to the next level and i lowered all the settings, and i repeated this process.

also i set it to manual mode in the settings......this way i could control it and stop it from advancing.

i dont do dnb anymore, but i never mastered dnb6.

i pretty much mastered dnb5

my memory sucks......

the only asset my mind has is the ability to truly 'understand' things and find connections, patterns, and inter-relationships that others do not seem to be able to do as well.....but only after working my ass off at trying to truly understand the subject

sometimes that meant reading 3-5 books per subject matter

On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 1:35:04 AM UTC-6, Bryskens wrote:

"Since there's been confusion in this post, can you clarify -- are you questioning going from Dual N Back to Triple N Back, or from Dual 2 Back to Dual 3 Back?

Brain Workshop supports Triple N Back, by the way, so if you wanted to shift into a higher gear, you're still covered. Check out the Help/Tutorial from the main screen"

[whoisbambam]

here are some of my comments in order to get past dnb2:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/brain-training/CHANCE_OF_GUARANTEED_MATCH|sort:relevance/brain-training/HlTNr-BB2EY/vQAbEpEzHGAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/brain-training/CHANCE_OF_GUARANTEED_MATCH|sort:relevance/brain-training/7alPxS8ZGcU/0O2oVEc0UnkJ

I am not using jaeggi mode, i am using the standard mode, but I have 
changed teh following: 
80 BLACK_BACKGROUND = True 
93 SKIP_TITLE_SCREEN = True 
97 SHOW_FEEDBACK = True 
109 CROSSHAIRS = False 
148 OLD_STYLE_SQUARES = True 
149 OLD_STYLE_SHARP_CORNERS = True 
204 BACK_DEFAULT = 4 
228 TICKS_2 = 30 
252 NUM_TRIALS = 20 
266 THRESHOLD_ADVANCE = 101 
267 THRESHOLD_FALLBACK = 0 
293 VERSION_CHECK_ON_STARTUP = False 
301 CHANCE_OF_GUARANTEED_MATCH = 0.125 
312 DEFAULT_CHANCE_OF_INTERFERENCE = 0.125 
318 PANHANDLE_FREQUENCY = 0 
373 KEY_AUDIO = 102 
379 KEY_COLOR = 108 


204 BACK_DEFAULT = 4 
I control this manually. I basically wait until i get almost all 100%, 
and maybe 2 or so 80s 

228 TICKS_2 = 30 
when i first change a level, i increase this to 34, then 32, until i 
can 'get a feel' 

252 NUM_TRIALS = 20 
i change this to 25 and then 30 as i gain proficiency 

301 CHANCE_OF_GUARANTEED_MATCH = 0.125 
i set this to 0 when i advance a level until i gain proficiency 

312 DEFAULT_CHANCE_OF_INTERFERENCE = 0.125 
i set this to 0 when i advance a level, but to be frank it still 
causes 4 blinks/squares in the same exact location sometimes, in 
addition to back and forth back and forth across 2 squares despite set 
at 0--whatever. 

[Brandon Woodson]

"I have a wery good auditory recall at the same time a crappy auditory recall..but in different areas of it.

Trouble memorizing words when i speak, words that i search for..also it takes time to learn the 
meaning of new synonyms

Is this related to the things you wrote above?"

Possibly; but if I understand the question, I can't know for sure, especially with such limited data.

I can certainly relate to the "good recall, crappy recall" sentiment. I've noticed many distinct trends in individual speech processing, most evidently by the idiosyncratic nature of imperfections in recall that we all have to some extent.

For example, I have a younger brother who has exceptional short-term auditory recall; whereas, mine is somewhat above average, but still a relative weakness in my cognitive profile. On the other hand, I effortlessly recall things like intonation, rate of speech, rhythm, emphasis, etc. almost perfectly after much time has elapsed, yet my brother finds frequent difficulty in repeating these nuances even immediately after listening.

Having the experience of some brief personal experimentation, I find that certain ways of listening (artificially?) improve my digit span.

I am compelled to believe allocation of attention and practice play some vital roles in memory.


--Brandon

[whoisbambam]

Brandon, I seriously doubt there is *anything* WRONG with your cognitive profile.

I frequently lack the cognitive profile to understand much of what you write....and I want to understand it.

It would be nice to have a dumb version below your regular version of posts

[Brandon Woodson]

"Brandon, I seriously doubt there is *anything* WRONG with your cognitive profile.

I frequently lack the cognitive profile to understand much of what you write....and I want to understand it.

It would be nice to have a dumb version below your regular version of posts"

No, I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with my cognitive profile; only that it, like that of most, regardless of ability, is not perfectly even. I am generally happy with it though.

Also, I can in future posts explain further where needed.


--Brandon

[Marc Howard]

Wow whoisbambam I think we were born with the EXACT same brain per your description.  :) Thanks for explaining.

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[whoisbambam]

if u follow my two links, you will prevail, Marc

i was shocked as to how bad i performed.....combine that with perfectionism......i could not bring myself to accept low scores.....it held me back.

and thus my pursuit to advance with good scores and make it past the 'bump' without increasing anxiety/frustration too much as to quit.

if i can do it, you can too.

glad to meet another who had difficulty with dnb2

:)

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[Bryskens]

Why will this settings make its easier to beat 2 N back? if we get more time to keep what we have taken in...it will
get harder to recall, if it increases the speed it will be harder to keep attention to the updates lol...

Okay, but why is it important to get past especially 2 N back? why is the difference at largest here for the brain?
and why can it effect the IQ in contrasts to 2 N back that only affects the working memory you say

I have ADD and ADHD issues and while i wait for the next number and picture
to reveal themself on 2back im thinking parallely at either other unrelated things that distracts me
or im being attacked by OCD alike self confidence doubts..that wants me to repeat the rules
as pictures in my head, and i cant think in pictures :)

I also wonder, if you got ADD and ADHD maybe we must accept that we cant get past the low levels?
but that doesn't indicate that you have below average intelligence or anything like that? just cause you
cant get up to "normal" standard of this Dual N back games, its easy to see comparisons if you are self critical as i am.

[whoisbambam]

dnb2 was so difficult for me that i had to slow it down.

however, you are correct: you must do extreme focus because you can get distracted.

as i improved at the slower setting, my mind would wander--so i HAD to increase it or i would get worse.

but increasing speed decreases game time......so i increased from 20 to 30 over time.........sometimes 40........to increase my time per game......because time goes by faster as you increase speed.

and i continued to increase total amount of games........i did this daily........it trained my attention/focus.....i have ADD too (but not adhd).......my mind definitely wanders

practicing dnb IMO helped my focus and my willpower--i could study better/longer with better results.

IMO dnb does not affect IQ

IMO for some ppl DNB increases focus/attention, willpower, and possibly working memory (possibly because of increased focus/attention) and possibly increased my ability to gain crystallized intelligence because it increased my willpower--so i could study longer/more effectively